Healthcare costs

[rosethecopycat]

Pr. Obama had a town hall meeting on health care.

The rising cost of healthcare is "untenable (and) unacceptable" Obama said. "If we do not act and act soon to bring down costs, (rising costs) it will jeopardize everyone's healthcare."

I paraphrase: In ten years, 1 out of every 5 dollars earned will go to healthcare, and in thirty years, 1 out of every 3 dollars earned will go to healthcare, and that is untenable.

Well, 1 out of every 2 of my dollars is ALREADY going to healthcare. (insurance premiums)

His scenario sounds like a 'break' to me!

IMO, he is a very 'out of touch' politician.:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Pr. Obama had a town hall meeting on health care.

The rising cost of healthcare is "untenable (and) unacceptable" Obama said. "If we do not act and act soon to bring down costs, (rising costs) it will jeopardize everyone's healthcare."

I paraphrase: In ten years, 1 out of every 5 dollars earned will go to healthcare, and in thirty years, 1 out of every 3 dollars earned will go to healthcare, and that is untenable.

Well, 1 out of every 2 of my dollars is ALREADY going to healthcare. (insurance premiums)

His scenario sounds like a 'break' to me!

IMO, he is a very 'out of touch' politician.:rolleyes:


Why did you post this?;)

THIS IS MY HUGE-EST Pet Peeve on the planet. HC is a vast money making scam that starts with ways to make money that are so ridiculous.....the companies do not make any apologies or excuses for generating profits like they do.

IT's like a giant Ponzi scheme.

That is another reason not to like Henry Winkler or Happy Days-I never liked Ponzi.

[rosethecopycat]

Why did you post this?;)



IT's like a giant Ponzi scheme.

That is another reason not to like Henry Winkler or Happy Days-I never liked Ponzi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2i0QWXvOn0&feature=related

[lvpets2002]

:rolleyes: Oh yes I so agree..
Why did you post this?;)

THIS IS MY HUGE-EST Pet Peeve on the planet. HC is a vast money making scam that starts with ways to make money that are so ridiculous.....the companies do not make any apologies or excuses for generating profits like they do.

IT's like a giant Ponzi scheme.

That is another reason not to like Henry Winkler or Happy Days-I never liked Ponzi.

[Karen]

Our healthcare costs are high, too high, but I would rather have health insurance than not. Life is much better when I can breathe, frankly.

[rosethecopycat]

Our healthcare costs are high, too high, but I would rather have health insurance than not. Life is much better when I can breathe, frankly.

I agree.

I have RA and if I let the health insurance lapse, for one second, I will never get another policy (that includes RA)

I am 'unwritable'.
:rolleyes::(

[RICHARD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2i0QWXvOn0&feature=related

Always Ponzi schemeing!:rolleyes::(


The HC reform BO was going to work on, instead, he hands it to the Congress.
This problem I can wait to see the end result on.

We is in trouble.

[Laura's Babies]

Health care USE to be about getting people healthy. Now it is all about making $$$$$, they want us SICK.

[Cataholic]

Our healthcare costs are high, too high, but I would rather have health insurance than not. Life is much better when I can breathe, frankly.

I would imagine most of the uninsured feel that way, also. It is the HIGH cost of health care that makes it unobtainable to many. However it is brought down, and made more affordable to many, seems to be a step in the right direction.

[Randi]

I find it horrendous if the situation is so that people with a low income or are unemployed can't have free healthcare, it should be every person's right! I would much rather pay higher taxes (like we do in Denmark) and know you can go to a hospital without paying.

[RICHARD]

I could post the same thing over and over again.

The high cost of healthcare is related to the idea that you can sue the doctor, manufacturers of meds, equipment and implants and med centers, hospitals.

YES, if the doc comes into the OR and takes out your appendix while he is drunk, when you were scheduled for a gall bladder removal, SUE SUE SUE!

But, I see commercials on the tube from lawyers looking for people who have been given a certain drug. "If you have been given XXXXXXX during surgery and have developed XXXXXXX you MAY HAVE A CASE AGAINST THE MANUFACTURER!.

The lawsuit goes forward, the jury awards 10 milliom, jillion dollars and the HC system that loses HAS to raise the rates/cost for services....

------------------------------------

Again, Do not fall for the medical series on the tube. No matter what happens, you will not be treated within one half to one hour.

Drunk, rude, substance abusing doctors would never last one day, let alone one season in a hospital.

A miracle drug/test/procedure really works....in the script.

Question you HC provider. Don't go in with a list of symptons you pulled off the internet that lead you to believe your projectile vomiting has to do with
your earache.

Don't be embarrassed to tell your doctor your problems/concerns.

For way too long we have taken the position that "Doctors know Best".

Not true, they only know what info they get from YOU.

Be part of your HC treatments-don't hesitate and do not diagnose yourself.

Check you med bills and ask questions.

IT is you health at stake.

[cassiesmom]

Somewhere I read that 45 cents out of every dollar spent on health care goes to administrative costs. Two teaching hospitals in Chicago have laid off nurses because patients are unable to pay their bills, resulting in decreased cash flow. I think that as long as there are insurance lobbyists and attorneys going for huge malpractice verdicts, there will be no easy answers to the question of what to do about health care.

[Medusa]

Something needs to be done but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know what that something is. I can barely afford my health insurance and I received notice that my premium is going up again by $150 a year! C'mon! At my age, if I cancel, I'll never get insured again, so I have to cut back somewhere else. The thought of the govt. taking control, though, scares me. My health care system is bad but I know that it can get much worse if the govt. gets ahold of it. I'm not litigious, I'm not a complainer, I don't go to the dr. w/a hangnail but when I do go, I expect to be seen w/in a reasonable amount of time and I insist that the dr. really listen to me. If I'm going to wait for weeks to get an appt., then be shuffled in and out quickly, then keep your "free" health care. I'll find the money somewhere somehow.

[rosethecopycat]

it should be every person's right!

I disagree. IMO, it is not a right. It is a service. I am willing to pay, but what else are we paying for that goes up 15% a year, every year? With little or no options or alternatives.

Medusa- I'm with you. That's exactly what I think of Dr. visits.

Every year my premium goes up $100 a MONTH, or roughly $1000-1200 a year.

In Florida, at least, you cannot even buy and keep a catastrophic policy anymore. That's all the coverage many young, healthy people need. Writing those types of policies would help the problem greatly. Just covering catastrophic emergencies, no RX, no Dr visits, etc.

But would people pay for the policy? No matter how low the premium was?
Many people would still say they 'can't afford' it, even with a premium under $100 a month. No, they resent having to pay anything.

I have always considered it my responsibility to have medical insurance, for the last 30 years now. I've always paid for it myself, and never set foot out of the house without it. But now, I admit, it is getting rather difficult, as they take half of my money, and my rate will go up 10-15% in October.

[RICHARD]

DO NOT LET THE IDIOTS IN D.C. fool you into NATIONALIZED HC.

Start by looking into the multi million handouts from court cases that are so blatantly outrageous that they boggle the mind.

Put limits on what juries can award first.

That will lower the prices of malpractice insurance, the costs of producing meds, implants and services.

IT's a simple fix, take the F wad ambulance chasers out of the picture and thing wll get reasonable.

---------------------------------------


Our prez just came out and touted the EMR-electronic medical record.

Now, All you 'privacy advocates' should take note about the EMR and the ability for hackers and stupid employees to access YOUR information.

The company that I worked for started to look towards the EMR in '89. 20 years ago-there barely got it together in the last two year to implement the system.

This same company was fined 250,000 dollars and they fired and counseled 20+ employees for accessing the records on the OCTOMOM. Private records? Nope, if you have a password to access the system, you can peek into any record in that particular system.

This also happened in one of the university hospitals, where some celebrities had their records looked at.

Another problem is someone accessing you info then having to leave that station/terminal logged in and having someone come in behind them and seeing what they were looking at.

----------------------------------

Part of the problems for any electronic info gathering systems is that you are forcing the RNs, LVNs, NPs and other people to waste time trying to log info into the system.

One of the new ideas was to have PDAs that the docs would carry around with them, log patient info they go back to their offices or nurse stations and down load the info into the system.

LOL, I used to find pagers, stethoscopes and even wallets in the bathrooms that belonged to them. If a doctor loses a day's worth of info on his patients, what happens then?

Even though a paper system is bulky and archaic, it put the info down on one page and it was a verifiable source is something needed to be looked at.

----------------------

In the old world, Doctor's would make a telephone order, the nurse would document that on the chart, sign the Dr's name and initial it.

Now there is no validating an order or 'signature' in the doctor orders.

Complicate that for nurses who will take the easy way out and use a terminal that is opened on another account or asked a co-worker to note the order.

In the perfect world, no one would snoop, take the easy way out or make a mistake in typing out info that goes into a PERMANENT RECORD.

Just wait, the stories of medical malpractice-another cost inducing bugaboo in HC- stemming from screwed up data in EMR systems will start to surface.

-------------------------

"Hi, I am calling in for my prescription......It should be ready!"


"Nope, it doesn't show up on my computer!!!!"

"But, I spoke to my physician yesterday!"

"It's not in the computer, so I cannot help you!"


Your (insert the malady here) can wait for the data to catch up?

[Edwina's Secretary]

You can learn alot from PetTalk....like herehttp://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=153276 and learn about just how well our healthcare system works.

Or perhaps you remember one of our members taking up a collection to pay for her hearing equipment? Because as a recent graduate - not yet employed - she does not have medical insurance.

We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world (greatest spending per capita). And by standard measures our healthcare rates no higher than 17th.

People (as in politicians and the like...) say healthcare should be between the patient and the doctor. All fine and well if you have a doctor. By our system - no insurance - no doctor - except the emergency room. Which drives the price up.

If you have been treated for acne - insurance companies will deny you coverage.

To be the only western country that accepts a system where medical care is so expensive and only available to those who can afford it -- without delivering value is an embarassment. People who live in countries with single payer systems - when surveyed (not "one off anecdotal" stuff) are more satisfied with the care they get.

Getting the facts about the cost and quality of other systems helps to get past the fear of the unknown!

[rosethecopycat]

DO NOT LET THE IDIOTS IN D.C. fool you into NATIONALIZED HC.

Start by looking into the multi million handouts from court cases that are so blatantly outrageous that they boggle the mind.

Put limits on what juries can award first.

That will lower the prices of malpractice insurance, the costs of producing meds, implants and services.

IT's a simple fix, take the F wad ambulance chasers out of the picture and thing wll get reasonable.

---------------------------------------


Our prez just came out and touted the EMR-electronic medical record.

Now, All you 'privacy advocates' should take note about the EMR and the ability for hackers and stupid employees to access YOUR information.

The company that I worked for started to look towards the EMR in '89. 20 years ago-there barely got it together in the last two year to implement the system.

This same company was fined 250,000 dollars and they fired and counseled 20+ employees for accessing the records on the OCTOMOM. Private records? Nope, if you have a password to access the system, you can peek into any record in that particular system.

This also happened in one of the university hospitals, where some celebrities had their records looked at.

Another problem is someone accessing you info then having to leave that station/terminal logged in and having someone come in behind them and seeing what they were looking at.

----------------------------------

Part of the problems for any electronic info gathering systems is that you are forcing the RNs, LVNs, NPs and other people to waste time trying to log info into the system.

One of the new ideas was to have PDAs that the docs would carry around with them, log patient info they go back to their offices or nurse stations and down load the info into the system.

LOL, I used to find pagers, stethoscopes and even wallets in the bathrooms that belonged to them. If a doctor loses a day's worth of info on his patients, what happens then?

Even though a paper system is bulky and archaic, it put the info down on one page and it was a verifiable source is something needed to be looked at.

----------------------

In the old world, Doctor's would make a telephone order, the nurse would document that on the chart, sign the Dr's name and initial it.

Now there is no validating an order or 'signature' in the doctor orders.

Complicate that for nurses who will take the easy way out and use a terminal that is opened on another account or asked a co-worker to note the order.

In the perfect world, no one would snoop, take the easy way out or make a mistake in typing out info that goes into a PERMANENT RECORD.

Just wait, the stories of medical malpractice-another cost inducing bugaboo in HC- stemming from screwed up data in EMR systems will start to surface.

-------------------------

"Hi, I am calling in for my prescription......It should be ready!"


"Nope, it doesn't show up on my computer!!!!"

"But, I spoke to my physician yesterday!"

"It's not in the computer, so I cannot help you!"


Your (insert the malady here) can wait for the data to catch up?

Richard, Central Services has just informed me that you have been promoted to Information Retrieval.

[RICHARD]

Richard, Central Services has just informed me that you have been promoted to Information Retrieval.


Dead pan or Bed pan humor?:D


I almost spit up my evening cocktail all over my WHITE t-shirt.:eek:

[Edwina's Secretary]

I read in the newspaper this weekend about 60% of the bankruptcies in this country are a result of medical care.

The system we have is broken. We are paying top dollar for inferior care. While complaining about it we don't want to look at solution that might be "government"...:eek::eek::eek:

Sort of like cursing the darkness while refusing to light a candle...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[rosethecopycat]

Dead pan or Bed pan humor?:D


I almost spit up my evening cocktail all over my WHITE t-shirt.:eek:

Your name is Mr. Buttle, correct?

[rosethecopycat]

I'd still rather go with strong Tort reform and less government control.

[RICHARD]

Your name is Mr. Buttle, correct?

Well, kinda..

The end that don't face people is..;)

[Puckstop31]

Here's the thing.... I understand all the arguements for a single payer system. I know our system is broken and needs to get better.

But here are some questions.

1.) Where does the Constitution allow for Federal Government to take over/mandate health care?

2.) Do we REALLY trust the Federal Government to "fix" something as massive as the US Healthcare system? I remind you all that it is 1/5th of the ENTIRE economy.

3.) Most importantly... Do you really want to surrender even more personal liberty to the Feds? For what?


But most of all.... OBEY the Constitution. Just because it is "good for you" or the "right thing", does NOT make it Constitutional. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions. Look at where the "New Deal", "War on Poverty", "War on Drugs", "The Great Society", etc got us... TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS in debt and we still have all the same problems.


We will reap what we sow... This is all history repeating itself.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have noticed some people post sweet requests for everyone to have cancer screening, etc. Great sentiment but not a reality for the 50 million Americans without healthcare insurance.

When you have to choose between feeding your kids or getting a pap smear...well, I know the choice I would make.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Today I had to tell two employees of a client of mine they are terminated. Both are in their 50's. Both provide income...and sooo important...medical benefits for them and thier families.

Of course I told them about their COBRA rights. But I know...that after rent and food...there will not be the $600 to $800 per month to pay for the insurance. They will be fortunate if unemployment covers the rent.

Speaking of COBRA...do you know if your employer discontinues medical insurance - for whatever reason ---- including going out of business there is no COBRA? COBRA benefits are through the employer not the insurance company - so if the employer no longer has insurance - you no longer have COBRA rights.

I suppose some might think it the "fault" of these two people today who lost their jobs and their medical insurance...and the medical insurance of their families.

I don't.

[blue]

I suppose some might think it the "fault" of these two people today who lost their jobs and their medical insurance...and the medical insurance of their families.

What?

[Nomilynn]

I was unemployed for 8 months. I had medical coverage that entire time. I was able to see my doctor, get blood work, go to the hospital if I needed, without worry. I am a diabetic, so I need to have regular work done frequently. That isn't my fault. It's also not my fault that I was laid off. Yet I should be denied medical care because of this?

The system here may not be perfect, but it's sure better than what is in the US. My parents lived there for 12 years, and I saw how hard it was for people. The longest I've had to wait to see my GP? 4 days. And that was because he was on holidays.

[RICHARD]

3.) Most importantly... Do you really want to surrender even more personal liberty to the Feds? For what?


Dude!

Again, the same people who are so very adamant about protecting the most intimate part of their lives-medical information-are willing to let the government sponsor a system that will allow that information to be put into a 'paperless' system that HC workers and hackers can access.

If identity theft is so prevalent, what will keep unauthorized people from hacking a system to get info that will allow them to steal an indentity for their own use?


-------------------------

I had to laugh when I heard a story about a woman who took on an identity to have breast implants done. I think they did catch her, but if people are willing to go that far to have surgery, what are the rest capable of?:rolleyes:


Rose,

The name is TUTTLE!


What is the weather like in Brazil this time of year?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Again, the same people who are so very adamant about protecting the most intimate part of their lives-medical information-are willing to let the government sponsor a system that will allow that information to be put into a 'paperless' system that HC workers and hackers can access.

If identity theft is so prevalent, what will keep unauthorized people from hacking a system to get info that will allow them to steal an indentity for their own use?


And this is different from today...how? Medical records are hacked into...and published in the National Enquirer all the time.

A doctor recently wrote a prescription for me on a piece of paper. It was for a sore on my ear. I was instructed to put the cream on my right leg twice a day. Bad handwriting or sloppy reading?

How does paper vs. paperless reduce mistakes? How does paper enhance security?

Was that "dude" or duh???

[rosethecopycat]

Paper or paperless....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xNnRBksvOU&feature=related

[blue]

Paper or paperless....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xNnRBksvOU&feature=related

Golf clap, nicely done.

[RICHARD]

Paper or paperless....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xNnRBksvOU&feature=related


Paper.

You can hold it in your hand and in a pinch use it for TP.


Try THAT with a Blackberry.:D:p;)

[blue]

Try THAT with a Blackberry.:D:p;)

People have, it aint pretty.

[RICHARD]

People have, it aint pretty.

Another reason not to shake hands with people who use PDAs and cells.:eek:

---------------

Seriously, Why charge ahead with a problem that affects EVERYONE?

How do you fix something so terribly screwed up without tearing it down and starting over?

Fix the money and lawsuits, first!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Fix the money and lawsuits, first!

And screw the 50 million with no access to health care.... let them eat cake, right?

[Puckstop31]

And screw the 50 million with no access to health care.... let them eat cake, right?

The 50 million number is HIGHLY debateable. And, as most statistics, subject to a great deal of contextual explaination... How many of those people CHOOSE to not have insurance? I know I chose to not have any for a long time when I was younger. When I needed to go to the doctor, I paid for it. How many of those people are between jobs?

Those 50 million, DO have ACCESS to healthcare. Just not insurance. And isn't that what Medicare/Medicade is for?

[pomtzu]

The 50 million number is HIGHLY debateable. And, as most statistics, subject to a great deal of contextual explaination... How many of those people CHOOSE to not have insurance? I know I chose to not have any for a long time when I was younger. When I needed to go to the doctor, I paid for it. How many of those people are between jobs?

Those 50 million, DO have ACCESS to healthcare. Just not insurance. And isn't that what Medicare/Medicade is for?

But paying for a doctor visit is nothing compared to what you would have paid had you needed anything more than that. Something as simple as a broken bone can run into BIG bucks. When I broke my wrist last time, I had to have it surgically repaired and not just casted, and the external outrigger alone that was screwed into my hand and arm was $14,000. Then of course there was the E.R., the surgeon's fees the O.R. fees to have it placed, and then again 7 weeks later to have it removed, many x-rays, P.T. --- could you have paid all that on your own? And God forbid a catastrophic injury or illness....

And you practically have to be living in a tent to qualify for Medicade, so not everyone qualifies for Medicare/Medicade. Those that don't will go to the E.R, knowing that they won't be turned away, and the people that do have insurance are the ones that end up paying their bills in the form of high premiums. When I had to retire on disability, law required a 2 year wait before I could be on Medicare. In the meantime I continued my insurance thru COBRA, and those premiums took almost half of my Social Security disability check every month for those 2 years. Not all people are willing or able to do this. So for many, many people, being uninsured is the only choice that they have, but not necessarily what they want.


ETA: Correction - my employer paid my premiums for the first 6 months, and I paid the remaining 18 months.

[caseysmom]

I always gripe because my employer pays 1200.00 a month for my health care and I pay another couple hundred on top of that and we never use our health insurance.

Well I'm not griping now, I don't even want to know what my recent stunt would have cost me, I'm kaiser so I never see the bill.

[pomtzu]

Well I'm not griping now, I don't even want to know what my recent stunt would have cost me, I'm kaiser so I never see the bill.

You would probably need to be resuscitated..........:eek:

[Grace]

Have any of you ever gone through one of those statements with a fine tooth comb?

I had a large bill after my Laminectomy years ago. We had insurance, but I disputed a couple of charges, that I knew were incorrect. The hospital removed them from the bill.

What things cost these days is disgusting. Anyone else a diabetic? The cost of the strips for checking my glucose is insane. You can get a meter for nothing - because the money is in the strips. The place I get strips bills Medicare $100 for 100 strips. Medicare only pays about 55-60% of that amount - so my other insurance pays the rest. The worst part - I can go to Amazon.com and buy 100 strips for less than the 55% Medicare pays. What a rip-off!!

What is more egregious, in my mind, is that since I am a non-insulin diabetic I am only allowed one strip per day. I spent my life in the medical field, so I know how important it is to my future health to maintain tight control on my diabetes now. And that involves testing several times a day.

[Edwina's Secretary]

What things cost these days is disgusting. Anyone else a diabetic? The cost of the strips for checking my glucose is insane. You can get a meter for nothing - because the money is in the strips. The place I get strips bills Medicare $100 for 100 strips. Medicare only pays about 55-60% of that amount - so my other insurance pays the rest. The worst part - I can go to Amazon.com and buy 100 strips for less than the 55% Medicare pays. What a rip-off!!



And if you could buy those strips in one of those countries ...such as Canada...they would probably be even cheaper!

Insurance companies want to insure those who are healthy. That is how they make money. Every claim they must pay is an expense they don't want.

And so those who cannot afford health insurance wait until they are REALLY sick before making that trip to the emergency room -- costing those with insuarance (and medicaid/medicare) even more as more advance treatment is needed.

We ALL pay the price of medical care - directly or indirectly. To me the issue it to make it more equitable and less wasteful.

[Puckstop31]

We ALL pay the price of medical care - directly or indirectly. To me the issue it to make it more equitable and less wasteful.



I agree 100%. Which I was I find your advocacy of a government run, single payer system... odd.


Lets see... Income Tax system, neither equal or low waste... Medicare/cade, the healthcare systems curerntly run by Big Brother... DEFINATLEY not efficient and not equal. That one I know, I worked in the PA system for 2 LONG years.

ANYthing other than a health care plan run by the government. Regulate/subsidize the private system...

[pomtzu]

And if you could buy those strips in one of those countries ...such as Canada...they would probably be even cheaper!

Why can't you get them from Canada? I have gotten prescriptions from there in the past and saved a bundle.
This Spring my doctor prescribed a nasal spray for my pollen allergies. Cost at Sam's was $112 per month, but I could get it thru Canadian pharmacies at $62 for 3 months. What's wrong with that picture??? In the end I chose not to get either, since over the counter Benadryl works just as well for me.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Why can't you get them from Canada? I have gotten prescriptions from there in the past and saved a bundle.
This Spring my doctor prescribed a nasal spray for my pollen allergies. Cost at Sam's was $112 per month, but I could get it thru Canadian pharmacies at $62 for 3 months. What's wrong with that picture??? In the end I chose not to get either, since over the counter Benadryl works just as well for me.

My understanding is there are legal issues for US citizens to buy drugs from Canada.

[pomtzu]

My understanding is there are legal issues for US citizens to buy drugs from Canada.

I've heard that the government is, or was, trying to make it illegal, but so far they haven't been able to do it. If U.S. pricing was anywhere in line with the Canadian prices, then people wouldn't have to buy out of the country. If Canada can sell it so cheaply, then why can't the U.S. - or perhaps I should say why won't the U.S.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I've heard that the government is, or was, trying to make it illegal, but so far they haven't been able to do it. If U.S. pricing was anywhere in line with the Canadian prices, then people wouldn't have to buy out of the country. If Canada can sell it so cheaply, then why can't the U.S. - or perhaps I should say why won't the U.S.

The drug companies have a VERY strong lobby....just like the insurance companies....

[pomtzu]

The drug companies have a VERY strong lobby....just like the insurance companies....

I still don't get it - same pharmaceutical manufacturer - exact same drug in both countries-------just doesn't make sense to me :confused:

[Grace]

Well, well, well - I just went to Canada Drugs online and I can buy 100 strips for $51.90 - that's even less than at Amazon.

I think I shall call my Congressman's office once again and ask about the great variation in prices.

On the subject of buying drugs from Canada - we have been buying Frontline, an anti flea and other assorted bugs product, for our cats from Canada for several years. It is a non-prescription item there, takes just about 2 weeks from order to delivery, and it cost just over half of the amount our Vet charges. And, yes, it is the very same stuff - made by Pfizer.

[pomtzu]

Well, well, well - I just went to Canada Drugs online and I can buy 100 strips for $51.90 - that's even less than at Amazon.

I think I shall call my Congressman's office once again and ask about the great variation in prices.

On the subject of buying drugs from Canada - we have been buying Frontline, an anti flea and other assorted bugs product, for our cats from Canada for several years. It is a non-prescription item there, takes just about 2 weeks from order to delivery, and it cost just over half of the amount our Vet charges. And, yes, it is the very same stuff - made by Pfizer.

It also pay to compare the Canadian pharmacies against each other too, since their prices also vary.

I never thought about Canada for pet meds - I've been getting mine on line thru jefferspets and they are a whole lot less than the vet or other on line pet med places. I'm going to have to check Canada for them now. Thanks! :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I still don't get it - same pharmaceutical manufacturer - exact same drug in both countries-------just doesn't make sense to me :confused:

The "explanation" I have seen most often from the pharmas is... you cannot know for sure the quality of drugs if you buy them outside the US.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Grace]

It also pay to compare the Canadian pharmacies against each other too, since their prices also vary.

I never thought about Canada for pet meds - I've been getting mine on line thru jefferspets and they are a whole lot less than the vet or other on line pet med places. I'm going to have to check Canada for them now. Thanks! :)

The most recent place I used was Canadavet.com. It's in British Columbia, and the boxes ship from Australia. They are doing some work on their web site, and I ended up using the 800# last time. No problems though.

[pomtzu]

The "explanation" I have seen most often from the pharmas is... you cannot know for sure the quality of drugs if you buy them outside the US.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

So they say that to scare people into submission and I guess it works??? I wonder how they explain away the same packaging, same manufacturer, etc. Do they make sub-standard drugs to sell outside the U.S.? I wonder how they answer that one??? :rolleyes: :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Do they make sub-standard drugs to sell outside the U.S.? I wonder how they answer that one??? :rolleyes: :D

That is what I always wonder...

[RICHARD]

What a crock of crap.

The meds are almost the same, the only difference is the packaging and the way they are milled.

---------------

I can say this because I was "there".

Back in the early 80's, when Quaaludes were the 'thing', Rorer made them and when the government saw a problem with people going to a doc, getting a script and selling them for 2,3,5 bucks a piece, they closed that street down.

People gravitated towards the Mexican Quaaludes - basically the same manufacturer, just the quality- pill milling, the packaging and the printing on the label suffered.

It was like going to a outlet store and buying a Craftsman air compressor at a 60% discount because of a giant scratch on the tank. IT DOES THE SAME EFFING JOB, It's just not pretty to look at.

-------------------------------



If Canuckians were dying from pills and other meds, doncha think they would call us and let us know?

The problem rests in the LAWS AND THE WAY PEOPLE ACT after they go in for a treatment, take a med or have surgery. People go in for liposuction and the doc punctures a vein, artery or organ with the wand, you get infected and have to have that growth/scar tissue on your belly excised.

Then you have to sue because you were stupid enough to have the surgery!

Our problem is that we want our products totally eff proof and some on to blame when they go wrong.


Watch a Mexican commercial about foot fungus, the kind that makes your toenails grow arms and legs. Then you see the "AFTER" picture and you think- Shiat! that must work!

Please, You would drink a potion of mushrooms, coffee grinds and turnip skin if it cured you.

The Canucks and Mexicans don't give a flying handshake about the packaging, spelling or the way their prescriptions work.

They want relief.

-------------

Some of us pray for an IMPROVEMENT for our maladies.

Others want Dr House, Ben Kasey, Johnny Gauge or Roy DeSoto to show up and fix our sorry arses up.

Get real, Get Life.
You are born to die.

The doc is just there to extend your painful existence.:rolleyes::confused::(

[Nomilynn]

The "explanation" I have seen most often from the pharmas is... you cannot know for sure the quality of drugs if you buy them outside the US.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's my understanding, and I could be wrong and I'm too lazy to check right now :p, but I believe that there are tighter controls on ingredients in medications in Canada than in the US. As far as I know, Canada always retests for their own purposes but again, I may be incorrect!

As far as diabetic supplies, though, like strips, I can't see how it would make any difference whatsoever. When I first was diagnosed my parents and I made a trip to Florida. When we arrived and unpacked I realised I had forgotten to pack test strips, and went to a Walgreens and bought them and there was no issue with them at all.

[blue]

And all this time I was told that the Canadian Gov put a cap on the cost of prescription drugs, and if American Pharma companies didnt or wouldnt sell them for the lesser amount, Candian Pharma companies would reverse engineer the drug, then produce and sell it.

[rosethecopycat]

Get real, Get Life.
You are born to die.

The doc is just there to extend your painful existence.:rolleyes::confused::(

Poor Richard, you sound 'down'.

There is another answer you know, and you are guaranteed a full 20 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o036FaM384&feature=PlayList&p=4F24ADF2C20743E8&index=7

[RICHARD]

Poor Richard, you sound 'down'.

There is another answer you know, and you are guaranteed a full 20 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o036FaM384&feature=PlayList&p=4F24ADF2C20743E8&index=7

Oh lolololololol.

The full 20!

But, I'll stick around for the "furniture", god knows you can arrange it any way you want it around the room..:D

---------------------------

Oh no, It's just that I see these dopes that want to 'reform' the HCS and they have not the first idea as to how to do it.

90 quadzillion dollars to put your x ray on the WWW!


Go right to the source and put a cap on jury awards, malpractice, implant 'malfunctions' and medicines and they are halfway there...



20 minutes, huh!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Go right to the source and put a cap on jury awards, malpractice, implant 'malfunctions' and medicines and they are halfway there...


These may be parts of the solution but I fail to see how it will do ANYTHING to make medical care available to the uninsured. <<head shake>>

Protect the insurance companies and medical devise makers and big pharma...as for the uninsured...Oh well!

[Nomilynn]

And all this time I was told that the Canadian Gov put a cap on the cost of prescription drugs, and if American Pharma companies didnt or wouldnt sell them for the lesser amount, Candian Pharma companies would reverse engineer the drug, then produce and sell it.

I'm not sure what this means - can you explain? :)

Like I said, I don't know enough about it, and I really didn't feel like researching it :p I just know that there have been times that Canada has refused to sell and prescribe drugs that are available in the US because they didn't meet Canadian standards. I can't even remember the drug, but it's always in the news when it happens.

[pomtzu]

I'm not sure what this means - can you explain? :)


I can't be certain, but what I think he is saying, is that they would analyze the chemical components and then manufacture their own under a different name, and sell at a lesser cost. I don't know that this would be possible tho, since they would be infringing on patent rights and leaving themselves open to a big lawsuit if this was done before the patent time had expired.

Just my interpretation of what was said, of course. I could be mistaken.

[RICHARD]

If you go to Mexico and sit down for a meal, order a Coke and make sure you get it in a bottle-a glass bottle.

The first thing you notice is the bottle is a few years old...no worries there, they recycle glass but do not bust it up and re-melt it, it goes back to the bottler and they re-use it! Pop the top and taste it. You'll notice that it's the same stuff you drank as a kid. Real sugar, no BS fake stuff.

It's the same Coca Cola company except there is no FDA or any of the other regulatory fingers in the pie, so, you get real Coke...... LOL, that is why the Toad from Venezuela doesn't like Coke Zero?;)

It the same with all the med companies-Check out the home pages for the guys who stock your medicine chest and you can be assured they have a Canadian, Mexican and Euro offices.

It's all the politics and regulations we have in our country that make HC so expensive.

They

[Grace]

It's the same Coca Cola company except there is no FDA or any of the other regulatory fingers in the pie, so, you get real Coke...... LOL, that is why the Toad from Venezuela doesn't like Coke Zero?;)


Oh, I don't like it either. I think it's one of the vilest things I have ever imbibed - and I sent Coke an email about it.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Not really....most countries including Mexico and Canada have a equivalent to the Food and Drug Administration. In Canada it would be safe to say a more strigent one...yet cheaper drugs. Hmmmm....

And some of us might remember what happens when there is not government oversight of the products companies sell us to put in our bodies.

Can anyone remember thalidomide????

[phesina]

And some of us might remember what happens when there is not government oversight of the products companies sell us to put in our bodies.

Can anyone remember thalidomide????

I can, and I can also remember the kids with flippers born to mothers who had taken it.

[joycenalex]

[QUOTE=RICHARD;2159809...Part of the problems for any electronic info gathering systems is that you are forcing the RNs, LVNs, NPs and other people to waste time trying to log info into the system.

richard, on my job at a columbus hospital system, you are assigned an employee id, there is an audit trail of who goes where in the system, i can only look at radiology stuff...do we have the last digitized mamm films for todays study, did the report on the patient with the broken arm get sent to the family doctor (side note about that coming up). i cannot access what i don't need for my job, so no lab, no surgery notes, no floor nurse notes for me. if i try to look at that section,the yellow block screen comes on. i do 3 different modalities of xray, so i move from area to area and computer to computer. log ins take less then 30 and there is timeout features, so if i'm not using the terminal for 10 minutes, i'm booted off. really good things about EMR....because of the system our hospital uses, the PCP can get stat calls with critical results in 3 minutes...yes dr smith hears about that case of pneumonia in under 5 minutes on the 87yr old patient....in our building, those images are on their results computer before that patient gets back upstairs. if mrs green is a call back mammo from eastside, and she comes to me at the west office, her mamm films are in my computer, so i know exactly what special views to do. the chance of misplaced films is way way down, no more residents "borrowing" films, no more surgeons leaving the original films to melt in their trunk of their car, the radiologist can compare the last 10 chest xrays on patients. while i hated the timeout at first, it's second nature now for me to pick up my xray order, do the patients images, log in, do computer documentation and log out. these are all good things.

[RICHARD]

Oh, I don't like it either. I think it's one of the vilest things I have ever imbibed - and I sent Coke an email about it.

Don't you start siding with Hugo Chavez!


Phesina,
Babies were born with flippers beause there was hardly any rules to screen treatments/meds back then.

There was a time when preemie newborns were put into an oxygen tent and no one suspected anything until people found out that the excess O2 caused blindness in the newborns.

JNA,

I hear you. I saw 30 years of people being stupid.

Let us remember of the lazy doc who does not want to be bothered about accessing the system so he gives his nurse, sec't., lab person his ALL ACCESS password so he can doctor and not waste his time on the computer.;)

I know you can do your job well and be responsible, but what about the jerk in the lab, radiology or GYN office that is not paying attention to what they have to do?

I worked in a chart room for years and I will be effed if I say I was on point every day I clocked in.:rolleyes:

You mentioned something very important about 'terminal vigilance'-you get booted after 10 minutes? If you do walk away from a authorized terminal can you promise all you patients that no one else will access that keyboard until you are timed out?


P.S.
If you know what a bunch of F wads the radiologists/docs/residents are with x rays, how can you put trust in them with a computer terminal, logging info into the system and making sure that films are there when needed?

The sys is only as good as the input.

[catland]

If you go to Mexico and sit down for a meal, order a Coke and make sure you get it in a bottle-a glass bottle.




Don't you remember the opening scene in the bottling plant in "The Incredible Hulk?"

[RICHARD]

Don't you remember the opening scene in the bottling plant in "The Incredible Hulk?"

Another movie to rent!:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

JNA,

I I know you can do your job well and be responsible, but what about the jerk in the lab, radiology or GYN office that is not paying attention to what they have to do?


You mentioned something very important about 'terminal vigilance'-you get booted after 10 minutes? If you do walk away from a authorized terminal can you promise all you patients that no one else will access that keyboard until you are timed out?


The sys is only as good as the input.

None of your arguments say why paper is better than automated. A good doctor, nurse or technician is good whether on a computer or using paper. A not good doctor, nurse or tehcnician is not good whether using paper or a computer.

If you walk away from an authorized paper file can you promise all you patients that no one else will access that file until you come back for it?

Same difference. The system is only as good as those using it.

[RICHARD]

Are Jack in the Box smoothies FDA approved?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I just finished reading an article in this week's TIME magazine - a look at a couple of different approaches to providing medical care.

Interesting comparison among UCLA, Mayo and the Cleveland Clinic. A very convincing argument for computerized medical records and the reduction in errors and costs as a result.

UCLA had the highest costs (by almost half!) and no difference in results.

Mayo uses the computerized records to determine "best" treatments.

Good reading...and so much better than whining!

[Puckstop31]

I can speak a little bit about computerized records and HIPPA compliance. We have several medical offices who are clients. (I am a partner in a IT company that specializes in small business support.) It costs a LOT of money to go EMR and to be fully HIPPA compliant. Secure email, uber strict internet access rules, all the scanning required, training, etc.... I know who pays for it now. Who pays for it when Big Brother is in charge? Because you know it will not become MORE efficient.

I guess what I am saying is I find it silly to think that having Big Brother in charge of our health care will make it cheaper. What does government do that ever gets cheaper?



And ES... Why is it that when anybody disagrees with you, it's "whining"? I used a word to describe you some time ago and you said that "this is why I keep you on ignore." (Yeah, right...) All I can say to that is... Gosh darn it ES, stop showing your true colors! LOL ;) You might be right on the health care thing. But there is a LOT of debate that needs to happen first. But you will get NOWHERE talking down to people. I learned that... So should you.

[RICHARD]

I can speak a little bit about computerized records and HIPPA compliance. We have several medical offices who are clients. (I am a partner in a IT company that specializes in small business support.) It costs a LOT of money to go EMR and to be fully HIPPA compliant. Secure email, uber strict internet access rules, all the scanning required, training, etc.... I know who pays for it now. Who pays for it when Big Brother is in charge? Because you know it will not become MORE efficient.

I guess what I am saying is I find it silly to think that having Big Brother in charge of our health care will make it cheaper. What does government do that ever gets cheaper?




HIPPA-----
How much grey hair has that caused you?:rolleyes:

You covered everything - It a multi-pronged attack trying to CYA and think of every contingency when systems go online.

Hat's off to you for taking that job on.

[Cataholic]

Though it has been a few years, I obtained a US prescription for a drug I purchased online through a Canadian pharm company. The doctor from whom I received the script was the one that told me about the Canadian online company. I was very happy with their services and the drug, while the drug was previously manufactured in/for the US, it wasn't for the reason I was prescribed it. It was very inexpensive.

As for tort reform and the lawsuits as the basis for driving up health care costs, that is one side of a story that the insurance companies want the public to believe. Med mal cases are the hardest to prevail upon and the most expensive to litigate. They are few and far between when you consider lawsuits in general. Your run of the mill auto accident cases are much more common and frankly none of us pay close to $1500 a month for auto insurance.

The health insurance companies are one of the most "impressive" lobbying voices in DC. I encourage you to look beyond their story.

[RICHARD]

As for tort reform and the lawsuits as the basis for driving up health care costs, that is one side of a story that the insurance companies want the public to believe. Med mal cases are the hardest to prevail upon and the most expensive to litigate.

Now, one C/A lawsuit for millions of dollar against a med manufacturer isn't why the rates go up for insurance?

What about the payouts against companies like Merck, Pzifer or J&J?

A MM case on it own, filed and litigated, even if the doc is cleared, raises his MP insurance.

Take the lawsuits that name a doctor, the med maufacturer, hospital or clinic..Now you have three entities answering to one lawsuit because the atty's. talk up the 'being wronged' angle to the people bringing the suit and go for the biggest and best payout.

The you have the 'out of court' settlement when it's deemed that throwing money at the plaintiffs is the cheapest way to go?

IT still costs money and the insurance companies have it right, Tort reform and award caps should be put into place for Dr.s, med manufacturers and implant makers.

[blue]

I saw an add tonight for 5 class action lawsuits against 5 different drugs.

Most of the big pharma break throughs used to come out of the USA. Lawsuits and regulations have curtailed the big break throughs greatly.

To the example of Canada, Canada tells the USA Pharma companies what they will pay per pill, if the drug companies wont sell for a lower price then they are allready selling the pills for, the Canadian Gov will break the pattent and produce the drugs in Canada with Canadian Companies and the US company is out all the money they spent in research in developement. Cheaper pills in Canada, but the US companies need to recur their costs for R&D and seak a profit for their shareholders so higher costs here in the USA.

[RICHARD]

I saw an add tonight for 5 class action lawsuits against 5 different drugs.






I would love to see the results of those trials!;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

As for tort reform and the lawsuits as the basis for driving up health care costs, that is one side of a story that the insurance companies want the public to believe. Med mal cases are the hardest to prevail upon and the most expensive to litigate. They are few and far between when you consider lawsuits in general. Your run of the mill auto accident cases are much more common and frankly none of us pay close to $1500 a month for auto insurance.

The health insurance companies are one of the most "impressive" lobbying voices in DC. I encourage you to look beyond their story.

When a lawsuit is filed against a big pharma it makes the news. Heck, when the jury verdict comes down...that might make the news. Summary judgments, dismissals and overturned verdicts rarely make the news. And occur frequently.

This is also true in employment law. I was involved in a case where the jury verdict of $6 million was the lead story on every news channel, radio station, newspaper. Months later when the judge overturned the verdict and ordered the former employee to pay the company's court cost - it did not even make a mention. People are not interested in that. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I won't argue whether tort reformed is needed or not - or whether it should be restricted to medical cases. I have mixed feelings on that.

What I will argue is that tort reform will not solve the problem of 50 million uninsured and therefore without access to adequate medical care.

[smokey the elder]

Up-front disclaimer: I work for a pharma company.

Even though Canada, etc. will try to break patents (actually easier than reverse-engineering; Drug Master Files, I believe, are held by the FDA and public) the product can still be dodgy. There are some drugs that even though they are considered equivalent, do not act that way in real patients.

p.s. I need to ask someone in Regulatory about the public/private status of DMFs.

In (strictly) my opinion, there is a lot of waste and "drag" in the American health care system. E-records coupled with HIPAA can lead to a whole load of unintended consequences. Here's a real-world example of how this can blow up:

Records in Pharma used to be strictly kept on paper; output from computers would be signed and dated and go into the permanent record. Someone had the bright idea to enable "electronic signatures" and this led to an invention of the devil called "21CFR Part 11". This rule, in existence for about 10 years or so, has probably cost my industry billions of dollars.

Caveat emptor!!:eek:

[RICHARD]

Records in Pharma used to be strictly kept on paper; output from computers would be signed and dated and go into the permanent record. Someone had the bright idea to enable "electronic signatures" and this led to an invention of the devil called "21CFR Part 11". This rule, in existence for about 10 years or so, has probably cost my industry billions of dollars.

Caveat emptor!!:eek:

Boom shaka lakka?:confused:;)

Invention of the devil?

I just went to the first webpage that came back on it and I laughed. WTF was that all about!:eek::confused::(


LOL,

When the EMR started to come in, my company created the Ministry of the EMR, an super secret company cell, their only job was to speak in 'programming language' while you speak to them in English!

The EMR project is an interesting one. There are med tracking software packages, coding software, lab software, central service....and on and on.

As the need for tracking systems came about, you had 4-5 to choose from for each need. Most of them are 'companies' who are really twoguys who wrote the thing in their garage and sell it from the back seat of their cars.

Then the sys chosen had to be integrated into the Main System.

Hand it off to the IT people from the hosp and IT "people" from sys seller and pray.


-----------------

The next huge thing coming out of this is another Dot.com style boom in EMR sales and development. The winner will be the one that can design an Microsoft-Styled platform that can talk to any other system with the least amount of BS.

That is where the money will lie in the next 10 years.

[RICHARD]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31946805/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/?GT1=43001


While this story does not have anything to do with health care, it exposes the basic flaw of the security for any comp/data gathering systems-

On Wednesday, Michelle Cawthra testified that she deposited unclaimed tax refunds and other money in Randell's bank accounts over two years by forging documents and creating fake businesses. She said she frequently used computer passwords of other workers so she wouldn't be detected.

Any system administrator that has access to passwords can get in and pretty much do anything want ....:eek: Your medical records may not be worth any money, but think of the gossip, it's worth it's weight in gold.:rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have handled confidential records - personnel records which include medical info - for 30 years.

Papers gets left in the copier, on the desk, in the wrong folder. File cabinets don't get locked. Some people just are nosy.

Paper or electronic - if people want to find something out they will.

Having had it both ways I see no difference in security - electronic or paper!

The only difference I do see is electronic is more likely to be legible than a scribbled paper note. And date stamped!

[RICHARD]

The OctoMom hospital just got nailed with another 185k on top of the 250k they were originally fined for records snooping by employees!

I love the feeling of having my med recs secure.

Who cares about WHAT I buy at the store with my discount card!;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I love the feeling of having my med recs secure.



Sorry - they never have been and I doubt they ever will be!

Just the facts....:p

[cassiesmom]

We were just talking about this at lunch. (Disclaimer: I'm a nurse, and I work in the insurance world.)

When I did workers' compensation, the employers that had the highest risk were placed into a pool, and each workers' compensation insurer was assigned a few of them. I don't know how risk was defined... high claim costs? high number of injuries? risky job tasks? or what.

Why couldn't each state pool its uninsured and parcel them out among each of the large health insurers? They all make such whopping profits that it should be no problem for them to write a reasonable policy to offer people who wouldn't otherwise have access to coverage. Not a bare-bones policy that would leave people underinsured, nor a mega-bells and whistles policy. But a reasonable policy that doesn't leave people stranded and bankrupt.

[RICHARD]

Why couldn't each state pool its uninsured and parcel them out among each of the large health insurers? They all make such whopping profits that it should be no problem for them to write a reasonable policy to offer people who wouldn't otherwise have access to coverage. Not a bare-bones policy that would leave people underinsured, nor a mega-bells and whistles policy. But a reasonable policy that doesn't leave people stranded and bankrupt.

Talk to the president about that. You know as well as I do that the HCR overhaul is nothing but blowing smoke up everyone's rear end to to make people feel better.

The insurance will be a freaking band aid and no one will ever get the health care that they deserve.


Long live the 12 dollar aspirin!;)

[blue]

I have handled confidential records - personnel records which include medical info - for 30 years.

Papers gets left in the copier, on the desk, in the wrong folder. File cabinets don't get locked. Some people just are nosy.

There are reasons companies have policies for restricted access to copy and printer rooms. More reasons for companies to keep records of who accesses those rooms. Yet even more reasons why companies keep records of who looks at what files and when. Finaly the security policies companies have implimented for employies who dont lock up their files and cabinets. Physical security is easier to impliment then computer security, its just not cheap and convinient.


Paper or electronic - if people want to find something out they will.

Things electronic can be compromised with less effort then things kept paper. On the other hand things on paper can make compromising the electricly kept files that much easier.


Having had it both ways I see no difference in security - electronic or paper!

Most people wouldnt volunteer they have violated secure and private documents in such a cavileer manner.


The only difference I do see is electronic is more likely to be legible than a scribbled paper note. And date stamped!

Peoples privacy is more important then your convenience.

[Edwina's Secretary]

You know as well as I do that the HCR overhaul is nothing but blowing smoke up everyone's rear end to to make people feel better.



I am not sure everyone "knows" that! Except you of course....:D:D:D

And Cassiesmom..how nice to hear the opinion of someone who actually works in the heathcare/insurance industry!

[blue]

I am not sure everyone "knows" that! Except you of course....:D:D:D

RICHARD, you didnt say everyone "knows" but that ES "knows", or am I crazy?

Maybe I need a smoothie.

[Grace]

Susan Estrich was once a campaign manager for Michael Dukakis - which puts her out there on the left. She is a Professor in the USC Law School. She also writes a couple of columns each week.

Here is her take on the current health care reform -


Summer in Washington

The stimulus program must really be succeeding in Washington, D.C. Government is hiring; people are working. In fact, if news reports are to be believed, they're working night and day. So maybe there's some sleep deprivation thrown in for good measure. And don't forget the legendary heat and humidity that made service in the nation's Capitol hazardous before the advent of air conditioning.

What other explanation could there be for my friends in Congress and the administration thinking that what the country wants them to do right now is raise taxes and spend a trillion dollars to overhaul health care, much less to push it through in a month in a 1,000-page bill being rewritten every day?

In California, where I live, unemployment is in double digits and climbing, and the state has been issuing IOUs for weeks. I'm blessed, and I'm not complaining.

But not a day goes by that someone doesn't call me, desperate for help in finding a job. And it's never been harder to help. For all intents and purposes, unless you have some very special skill to sell, there are simply no jobs. You want to wait tables or make coffee drinks? Good luck. Get in line.

The idea that somehow you're going to tax the "rich" enough to pay for quality health care for every American who doesn't have it, can't afford it or stands to lose it, not to mention for all of the undocumented aliens who receive it for free now and presumably will continue to in Obama health land, is almost laughable. It's one of those things candidates say in campaigns, ignoring the fact that it doesn't add up. But in a bill that might pass? Add a 5 percent surtax on every small business in the country that makes $250,000 or more? This is going to create jobs? What am I missing?

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office came out with a report this week concluding that the bill being written by House Democrats would increase the deficit and weaken the already weak economy.
Duh.

No one is explaining to people how the big changes in the bill will affect people who have insurance now, which happens to be the overwhelming majority of all Americans (and an even higher percentage of all voters).

Will our premiums and deductibles go up or down? Will our doctors and hospitals be better or worse off? It is simply not credible to tell me that if I like my insurance now, nothing will change. If you turn the health care delivery system on its head and start regulating, mandating and controlling the terms, don't tell me it won't change things.

Changing the tax treatment of insurance benefits changes who gets them and who pays for them. "Controlling costs" means what? Does my doctor have to see more patients? Get more approvals before ordering tests? Order less expensive tests? I don't know a single person who is willing to sacrifice, or even risk, their health care right now to an uncertain plan that they don't begin to understand — except folks in D.C.

I went to my doctor this morning and suspect I had an experience that's being repeated in doctor's offices across the country. My doctor told me how worried she is about the plan. Actually, it was much stronger than "worried."

She wasn't a big fan of HillaryCare, but from her reading, it was a carefully drafted and thought-out program compared to what's being discussed now. She's convinced that if the administration succeeds, the ripple effect will cost Democrats the House in 2010 and her patients' their access to high quality, affordable care.

I reassured her that the Democrats would never be that foolish. I hope. Maybe it's time for Congress to get out of Washington. They'll get an earful when they do.


source (http://www.creators.com/opinion/susan-estrich.html?columnsName=ses)

[RICHARD]

Susan Estrich was once a campaign manager for Michael Dukakis - which puts her out there on the left. She is a Professor in the USC Law School. She also writes a couple of columns each week.

Here is her take on the current health care reform -



source (http://www.creators.com/opinion/susan-estrich.html?columnsName=ses)


She's one of my favorite talking heads!


Good article. It asks the basic 'consumer' questions.


There is no good reason for the gov't. to be so gun-ho about pushing the bil thru, I'd expect our 'reps' to question the wisdom of even thinking that the bill would be a 'cure all' -pun intended- for HCR.

First the costs have to be reigned in....start there and I think the people would be satisfied about any plan.

Showing someone 1k pages worth of paper and saying that "that is the answer !" is rather asinine and dangerous. The idea may be good, but the idea that you can reform an industry as large as the HC/Health insurance model is akin to trying to stop a hurricane.


About Hillary and her attempt to reform/introduce HCR.

The only reason she was not able to get things going is she was 'just' the wife of the prez. Had she any voice in politics then, and had any success in implementing her program, we probably would not be having this conversation.:eek:;)



Blue,

Just out of curiosity, how far is the closest JITB from you?;)

[Grace]

She's one of my favorite talking heads!


Good article. It asks the basic 'consumer' questions.


I really enjoy her articles. She seems to have more common sense than some of the others who prattle incessantly.

[RICHARD]

I was listening to the radio and the HMO that I worked for had a commercial about how 'wonderful' it was to be a member...

Now you can,

Send an email to the doctor's office.
Get info on your Med Recs.
Get info on your prescriptions.
Schedule appts., cancel appts.


I stood there and laughed for about three minutes because the woman said the system was "safe and secure".

This is the same company that was fined almost 450k for letting employees look at the Octomom's files.:rolleyes:

-----------------------------------
Use your imagination to see what a email from a HMO member would look like, what the person who answers the email has to do to decode it and what the timeline in answering the note is!


Deer Doktor Mel Practice.

I have a prblm with da way dat I go 2 da b-room. I 8 some food dat made me sick. I cannot go numbr 2 for three daze! I hurtz when I tri to push and may be I need 2 c u fast. I want 2 eat sumthing but only do G2, a sportz drink!
Let me no what 2 do, I am hurtin!


I love technology!
---------------

Now they will increase the cost of your premiums because they have to hire 'peeps' that will do nothing but answer emails all day long.

Please remember this when the HCR bills go for a vote.

I am all for tech and improving service in the health care sector, but find that this is a recipe for disaster.


You will see that the lawsuit about the person who WILL NOT SEE A DOC will send an email in to the HMO, wait and then die beacuse of some 'hitch' in the system.


"The patient did not read the disclaimer-if they have a serious condition they need to call 911 of go directly to the medical center/ER for help."

What a colossal eff up this is going to be!:D;)

[Grace]

The latest from Susan Estrich -


Mother Knows Best

The president is "not familiar" with the bill. No one can explain how it will work yet, as Sen. Ben Cardin, D-Md., told a contentious town meeting. There are various plans, and negotiations are still in the early stages.

But whatever it is, we should be for it.

Am I missing something?

We're only talking about our health and our kids' health, the things my mother, may she rest in peace, told me a thousand times are the only things worth caring about. If you have your health, you have everything. And if you don't, what in the world matters more than the best health care in the world, which is found right here?

Not by everybody, mind you, and not cheaply, for anybody. No one's suggesting for a moment that there aren't major problems with both access and cost. But the best health care in the world is still here, and before we take steps that could make things much worse, I'd like to be very certain that they will indeed make things much better.

Your health, as I now tell my children, is not something to fool around with. Read the labels. Don't take unnecessary risks. Look before you leap. The devil is in the details.

Why would it be different for a health care plan?

I'm glad no one is calling me to ask whether I "support" health care reform.
At this point, the question — and the polls measuring people's answers to it — is utterly meaningless. What is health care reform?

Would I love to see every American have access to high-quality medical care? Of course.

Am I just as appalled as the next person when I get the bill (that for me, luckily, is mostly paid by insurance) and see what various tests and scans cost, or, rather, what hospitals are forced to charge patients with insurance in order to cover the ones without it? Sure.

But I'm not willing to give up my doctor or the time I spend with him. I'm not willing to give up the relationship we have. My children, now grown, feel as comfortable calling him as I do because he has taken the time with them over the years to build that trust.

And no matter how high the final price tag on those tests have been, never once have I said, "If I'd known how much they would cost, I wouldn't have had them done." No, I'm grateful for my insurance, grateful for the technology, grateful for good care.

So am I for health care reform? Do I support the House bill, whatever it is, or the Obama plan, which may or may not be the same thing?

Not yet. Not until I know what it is. Not until someone convinces me that whatever it is will do more good than harm, both for the country and for my family. Mother knows best.

source (http://www.creators.com/opinion/susan-estrich.html?columnsName=ses)

Someone please explain to me why they are in such a hurry to pass this? Even Medicare took 18 months.

[lizbud]

Susan Estrich was once a campaign manager for Michael Dukakis - which puts her out there on the left. She is a Professor in the USC Law School. She also writes a couple of columns each week.

Here is her take on the current health care reform -



source (http://www.creators.com/opinion/susan-estrich.html?columnsName=ses)



The AMA supports health care reform. If the Senate & Congress stop
giving news conferances & sit down to read what the bill is about, they
wouldn't be giving knee-jerk reactions.

[Lady's Human]

The AMA supports health care reform. If the Senate & Congress stop
giving news conferances & sits down to read what the bill is about


If the Congressional Reps haven't read the bill why in hell are they doing ANYTHING with regards to it other than reading the bills?

This (and the last) Congress should be recalled en toto for their ineptitude.

If you haven't read the bill, how can you debate it or vote on it?

[Grace]

If the Congressional Reps haven't read the bill why in hell are they doing ANYTHING with regards to it other than reading the bills?

This (and the last) Congress should be recalled en toto for their ineptitude.

If you haven't read the bill, how can you debate it or vote on it?

Agree.

I am not opposed to health care reform. I am opposed to rushing full-speed ahead when those voting are not well-informed.

Congress hasn’t read the proposal – neither has the President. He was asked a question and didn’t know the answer.

What is the rush? Why can they not take the time to get it right the first time?

As I said before, Medicare didn’t happen over night – why should this plan?

[RICHARD]

I have to disagree with the call on this thread for our reps to read the bill-

Osmosis worked for me when I was in school, whywon't it work for passing and voting for legislation?

This is nothing but 'feel good' plan to fool the country into making us feel like we are cared for by the government.

The people who currently work, or have in the past intimately know about the problems that the HC system has.

And they also know that the 'system' is well past the point of throwing money at it for it to be reformed.

It's nothing more that a "LOOK, I care because I put money into it".

Money is good, but a little thought would be better?

[lizbud]

If the Congressional Reps haven't read the bill why in hell are they doing ANYTHING with regards to it other than reading the bills?


If you haven't read the bill, how can you debate it or vote on it?


You would be amazed who really reads the language of any proposed bill.
(or maybe You wouldn't) They have staff that brief them on "facts".

[Lady's Human]

It wouldn't amaze me in the least.

I sincerely doubt that many sitting congressional representatives read much, if any of the legislation that they vote on. I doubt that congressional staffs function much different from military staffs.

If they were required to read the bills they write, they wouldn't have time to vote on anything other than the budgets.

[RICHARD]

It wouldn't amaze me in the least.

I sincerely doubt that many sitting congressional representatives read much, if any of the legislation that they vote on.

Do they at least look at the pictures?:confused::o:eek:

[blue]

Do they at least look at the pictures?:confused::o:eek:

They get issued pop up books.

[Puckstop31]

As I said before, Medicare didn’t happen over night – why should this plan?

What does your gut tell you? What does it say to you when politicians are screaming "hurry, hurry!", before they even know what is in the bill... OR at least are willing to SAY that they know what is really in the bill.

The CBO has been clear on what it means if this bill becomes law.

[cassiesmom]

What does your gut tell you? What does it say to you when politicians are screaming "hurry, hurry!", before they even know what is in the bill... OR at least are willing to SAY that they know what is really in the bill.

The CBO has been clear on what it means if this bill becomes law.

It tells me that a bill thrown together quickly probably won't offer the best possible solution. I can't imagine that the August deadline will be met because there are so many stakeholders - doctors, hospitals, insurers, patient advocacy groups. I bet the AMA and the American Hospital Association have powerful lobbyists and I know the insurance industry does! Changing health care in America is a tough question.

[blue]

ShrubCo was demonized for signing the Patriot Act into law even though none of the senators or congressmen read the act that they voted to enact into law.

Why is anybody suprised that OHB is pushing for the HCR bill, whatever it is called, to be passed without anybody knowing whats in it?

I dont want .GOV telling my doctors what level of treatment I get and niether should anybody else in this country.

Tort reform and making medical insurance a non profit industry would go a long way to reforming health care in the USA.

[Lady's Human]

Tort reform and making medical insurance a non profit industry would go a long way to reforming health care in the USA.

If you mandate that medical insurance become a non-profit industry who is going to provide med insurance?

I've yet to see anyone start a company NOT to make money.

[blue]

If you mandate that medical insurance become a non-profit industry who is going to provide med insurance?

I've yet to see anyone start a company NOT to make money.

It was just a thought, besides non profits still make money.

[RICHARD]

I've yet to see anyone start a company NOT to make money.

Why, that would mean people would act "stupidly"!:rolleyes::eek:

Even THINKING that any changes made to the bill before Sept would solve BO's cred-or is it street cred?- is way too ambitious.

In a strange way, I love that nothing is getting done and thre reps are going on vacation.....

Come on home and start to leaf thru you email and answer your phone messages you dopes.

I hope that they have enough constituent generated fear to really think about their vote.

Yeah, the 'boss' signs the checks-----we put you there and pay your wages.


I hope it's a long, hot, miserable summer for y'all!

[phesina]

Why, that would mean people would act "stupidly"!:rolleyes::eek:

Even THINKING that any changes made to the bill before Sept would solve BO's cred-or is it street cred?- is way too ambitious.

In a strange way, I love that nothing is getting done and the reps are going on vacation.....


Well, I'm certainly glad that some people in this country are going off on nice long vacations.. My bad if I'm not one of them, of course.


I hope it's a long, hot, miserable summer for y'all!

I hope the mosquitos are biting.

[Grace]

It wouldn't amaze me in the least.

I sincerely doubt that many sitting congressional representatives read much, if any of the legislation that they vote on. I doubt that congressional staffs function much different from military staffs.

If they were required to read the bills they write, they wouldn't have time to vote on anything other than the budgets.

On the subject of reading the bill - John Conyers, D-MI, spoke at the National Press Club last Friday, the 24th. This is his take on reading the bill -

Conyers Sees No Point in Members Reading 1,000-Page Health Care Bill–Unless They Have 2 Lawyers to Interpret It for Them

During his speech at a National Press Club luncheon, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Democratic Congressman John Conyers (D-Mich.), questioned the point of lawmakers reading the health care bill.

“I love these members, they get up and say, ‘Read the bill,’” said Conyers.

“What good is reading the bill if it’s a thousand pages and you don’t have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you read the bill?”

[Lady's Human]

In which case they should not be voting on it until taking the two days and speaking to the lawyers.

[blue]

People who were up in arms that the Congressional branch didnt read the Patriot Act before signing it, now dont care at all if the HCR bill gets read as long as its signed.

Start writing and calling your representatives, both local and federal, to secede! Its the only way to get their attention. Ive heard rumors that Texas is allready rejecting the national health care bill.

The Idea of the Congressional branch was to be filled with common citizens, not career politians who write bills in language that only skilled lawyers would understand.

[Grace]

Just in case anyone is interested, HERE (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3200:) is a link to the actual House bill.

Set aside two days, and notify the lawyers :)

[RICHARD]

Just in case anyone is interested, HERE (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3200:) is a link to the actual House bill.

Set aside two days, and notify the lawyers :)

Eff that........






CLIFF NOTES and a bottle of vodka!:D

[Puckstop31]

My...My...

http://www.breitbart.tv/uncovered-video-obama-explains-how-his-health-care-plan-will-eliminate-private-insurance/

[RICHARD]

My...My...

http://www.breitbart.tv/uncovered-video-obama-explains-how-his-health-care-plan-will-eliminate-private-insurance/

Is there room for him to be misquoted?:rolleyes:

[blue]

Is there room for him to be misquoted?:rolleyes:

Seemed pretty clear to me. That and the fact that the kool aid drinking cheerleaders havent attacked either you or Puck would lead me to believe its true.