Sigh. How would you handle this? *Update* 5/30; post #11

[Medusa]

I'm having a new backsplash installed in my kitchen. The tile is glass mosaic w/stainless steel scattered throughout which I designed myself and because it's a custom order it's non-returnable and non-refundable. My installer, a really nice and honest guy, measured wrong and I now have twice as much tile as I need. I held my tongue and decided to sleep on it to determine the best course of action and how to approach him. I was going to say "I can't take the financial hit because it's so big, nearly $500, so I'm open to suggestions. How do you think we should rectify this?" BUT...after gluing the tiles yesterday, nearly all of the stainless steel pieces fell off, I'd say probably a hundred of them. So he's very patiently hand gluing each piece back on and he's been here since 8:00 AM, he isn't finished gluing yet and it's now noon. Now I feel pretty crummy about asking him to make up the over estimation of tile in sweat equity. I've called and emailed the tile supplier to tell them what happened because I think they also should try to satisfy me in some way. After all, labor is expensive and gluing each tile back on is very labor intensive. I'm at a point now where I want to blast everyone and that's counterproductive but what should've been a quick and easy installation has already taken 3 days and we're not even close to finishing. Any suggestions?

[pomtzu]

First of all, is there anywhere else you could use the excess?
Second, did you take any pictures of the stainless pieces coming off so that you can go back on the manufacturer? If so, then I'd try to go back on them for the labor of the repair job and get some money back that way.
As far as your contractor measuring wrong and you buying too much, that's pretty tough to call since he is fixing someone's else's faulty workmanship!

[Medusa]

First of all, is there anywhere else you could use the excess?
Second, did you take any pictures of the stainless pieces coming off so that you can go back on the manufacturer? If so, then I'd try to go back on them for the labor of the repair job and get some money back that way.
As far as your contractor measuring wrong and you buying too much, that's pretty tough to call since he is fixing someone's else's faulty workmanship!

I can probably use the excess tile elsewhere in the kitchen but I feel that I shouldn't have to pay for the labor of installation since the mistake wasn't mine.

No, I didn't think to take any pix. I didn't even know the tiles came off until I came back from running errands and he told me. I went to the kitchen and saw that he had already glued a lot of them back on. But as I said, I just didn't think to take pix.

He is fixing someone else's poor workmanship, true, and I've definitely taken that into consideration. That's why I feel so crummy about telling him "Hey, you're the one who took the measurments, not I. It's your mistake." I think perhaps I'll talk to him about it tomorrow. I think today I'm just going to let him work. I don't want to make matters worse.

[pomtzu]

Even tho you have no pictures, I'd still notify the manufacturer. Just maybe you can get something out of it.
If you can use them elsewhere, just suggest to him that you get free labor on the installation, since the overage was his error.
It just sounds like you're caught between and rock and a hard place.

[Medusa]

I finally heard back from the tile company, asking if the pieces were on mesh or tape. So I emailed back that they were on tape. I'm waiting to hear back.

[Cinder & Smoke]

The tile is glass mosaic w/stainless steel scattered throughout which I designed myself
and because it's a custom order it's non-returnable and non-refundable.

My installer ... measured wrong and I now have twice as much tile as I need.
I can't take the financial hit because it's so big, nearly $500, so I'm open to suggestions.

... after gluing the tiles yesterday, nearly all of the stainless steel pieces fell off,
I'd say probably a hundred of them.
So he's very patiently hand gluing each piece back on ...

I've called and emailed the tile supplier to tell them what happened
because I think they also should try to satisfy me in some way.

You have two different issues here:

1) Your Installer goofed and ordered too much material - HIS problem.

2) Your Tile Manufacturer assembled a defective product - HIS problem.

*Note:
"Non-Returnable" and "Non-Refundable" do NOT cover nor apply to them
building a defective product.

The "defects" can be repaired or replaced - at the Manufacturer's option.
Let the Manufacturer PAY the Installer for his added labor to repair the tiles
-or-
Let them build new tiles AND pay to remove & replace the defects.

Good Luck!

[catnapper]

From the contractor's standpoint: did he submit a quote for you to approve? Because he can come back at you and say "hey, I offered a quote, and you are responsible for looking at it and questioning whether my estimate seemed high".

I used to woed for a company that ordered office cubicals and we would submit quotes that listed how many connectors, corner pieces, etc to build the cubicals. If for some reason, we submitted a quote that was short or over on parts, it always fell on the customer because they ultimately approved the layout and quote. Now.... I've NEVER seen a customer actually lay out the plans and count how many widgets and whoozits they needed, but the company said they offered a client the opportunity and it was the client's problem that the product was ordered incorrectly. Not that I agree with that mentality, but its the way they looked at it.

[Medusa]

From the contractor's standpoint: did he submit a quote for you to approve? Because he can come back at you and say "hey, I offered a quote, and you are responsible for looking at it and questioning whether my estimate seemed high".

I used to woed for a company that ordered office cubicals and we would submit quotes that listed how many connectors, corner pieces, etc to build the cubicals. If for some reason, we submitted a quote that was short or over on parts, it always fell on the customer because they ultimately approved the layout and quote. Now.... I've NEVER seen a customer actually lay out the plans and count how many widgets and whoozits they needed, but the company said they offered a client the opportunity and it was the client's problem that the product was ordered incorrectly. Not that I agree with that mentality, but its the way they looked at it.

He didn't submit a quote. What he said was "Here are the measurements" and then I ordered the tile according to the measurements and what the tile supplier told me. I made sure he measured twice. When I talked to my installer about it, he said "Measurements are measurements". I don't even know what that's supposed to mean! I said "And incorrect measurements are incorrect measurements". I could tell from his body language and silence today that he knows I'm not going to settle for this. He's usually so chatty that I have to leave the room if I want to get anything done so his silence speaks volumes. I reiterated again today that I cannot take a $500 hit. The tile supplier told me that she would "help" me w/the expense of any over time that the installer charges me so I told her what to expect in the way of costs. I've been saving money seemingly forever to have my kitchen redone and now I'm having an out-of-money-experience!

[catnapper]

He didn't submit a quote. What he said was "Here are the measurements" and then I ordered the tile according to the measurements and what the tile supplier told me. I made sure he measured twice. When I talked to my installer about it, he said "Measurements are measurements". I don't even know what that's supposed to mean! I said "And incorrect measurements are incorrect measurements". I could tell from his body language and silence today that he knows I'm not going to settle for this. He's usually so chatty that I have to leave the room if I want to get anything done so his silence speaks volumes. I reiterated again today that I cannot take a $500 hit. The tile supplier told me that she would "help" me w/the expense of any over time that the installer charges me so I told her what to expect in the way of costs. I've been saving money seemingly forever to have my kitchen redone and now I'm having an out-of-money-experience!

Yikes! I'm sorry you're in this predicament. It sounds like he knows he was wrong -- like you said, his body language spoke volumes. Stand your ground! Tell him you need him to be responsible for his actions, that its a cost of doing business.

[Medusa]

Oh, I'll stand my ground; no worries there. I just don't want to lose this guy, that's all. He's done a lot of work for me and I'd like to have him do more. Yes, this is a big mistake on his part but it wasn't intentional and I do think that we'll be able to work something out if I can keep my cool and express myself rationally. He's been willing to work w/me because I give him jobs as I can pay cash for his work, so the jobs are usually small, rather than having him go through the entire house and end up w/a huge bill, which is what I would love to do but my budget doesn't allow it. He won't be here today because he has another job that he has to finish but he'll be here tomorrow and by then we both will have had time to think about all this. He knows my financial situation (because I've told him often enough, LOL) and he knows that I've been saving money for 4 1/2 years for this kitchen work so I think in the end he'll be decent about it. Fingers crossed just in case, though. ;)

[Medusa]

Oooookaaaaaay.....I decided to go to the garage and see how many sheets of tile were left over so that I could see where I could have them installed in the kitchen. Guess what? He didn't measure wrong after all. He looked at the extra box and assumed it contained tile but it didn't; it contained the grout. So I didn't say anything to him when he arrived this morning and when it came time to grout, he asked where it was and I said "It's in the box in the garage". Silence. For the rest of the day. I don't know if he was embarrassed or upset but he didn't speak to me AT ALL. I finally said "What's up? You're usually so chatty and you haven't said a word to me all day". He said "Oh, nothing. My back hurts". I said "Did you injure it?" "No. I was crawling under a customer's deck all day yesterday". So I said "Are you taking anything for it?" "No". Ok, now I'm annoyed because he's acting like a little brat and I'm not into it. I will not stroke anyone. So I left to let him do his work.

Turns out he was pi$$ed because he had to cut some of the tile to make it fit and he didn't want to. Waaaah! He said that he never cuts tile if it's under an inch in size. Oh well. First time for everything. He actually wanted to put shoe mold on top of the tile to match the stain of my cabinets. I said point blank "No. I want tile". He said "But..........ok....." I mean, c'mon! Did he really expect me to settle for that? Anyhow, I told him that after he finishes some other work for me that I'd give him a break for a while. I think he's just plain tired.

I made spaghetti sauce for my son when he was home and this guy commented that his girlfriend couldn't make good sauce so I made extra and gave him a container of it. When he left today, I think he may have felt crummy about his behavior because he gave my container back and said "If my girlfriend could cook like that, I'd have spaghetti every day". So he'll be back tomorrow to seal everything, then he'll finish up a few jobs for me and that'll be it for a while.

[pomtzu]

DUH - a box of grout. It seems like his ego was hurting more than his back. :D Bet he felt stupid. :eek:

[Cataholic]

The tile came in the same sized box as a carton of grout? We must be weird in the US. Tile comes in the square boxes, and grout comes in cartons. Sounds like this guy doesn't know what he is doing, really. I put up my own backsplash. Kind of an easy job, really. Though my tile was on mesh, and not tape, it is the same application. I had a few tiles fall off, but, I had the mortar to hold them back in place until I grouted. Did you pay him to seal, too?

You might want to think twice about keeping this guy around. Who knows what else he might be off about.

[smokey the elder]

Oops. I think he was grumpy because he was mad and embarrassed at himself, not you. I hope it all gets sorted out.

[Medusa]

The tile came in the same sized box as a carton of grout? We must be weird in the US. Tile comes in the square boxes, and grout comes in cartons. Sounds like this guy doesn't know what he is doing, really. I put up my own backsplash. Kind of an easy job, really. Though my tile was on mesh, and not tape, it is the same application. I had a few tiles fall off, but, I had the mortar to hold them back in place until I grouted. Did you pay him to seal, too?

You might want to think twice about keeping this guy around. Who knows what else he might be off about.

I can understand why you would feel that way, especially after I complained on PT about him. But, to be fair, the grout was in a carton packed inside a box the same size as the tile. So he just assumed that it was tile and that I had moved the grout elsewhere. (Why he would assume that, I don't know.) Anyhow, he did a great job w/the tile installation, just beautiful, even painstakingly hand gluing on each stainless steel piece that fell off. It took him a full day, 8 straight hours. He's done other work for me in the past and his work has always been top notch, so my gripe now is w/the tile company. Clearly the product was defective and the owner of the company offered to "help" me w/any over charge incurred from the installer's over time, so we're presently working that out. The installer has a couple more jobs for me that we've already contracted for, so I told him that after that, I'm taking a break. He was his usual chatty, nice self yesterday, so I think he may be worried that I'm going to cut him loose. If he had indeed mismeasured and wouldn't have reimbursed me for the error, then, yes, I would've cut him loose. But, as I said, he measured correctly and even worked tirelessly to correct the tile company's mistake, so we're good. :)