The natives are getting restless...

[Puckstop31]

A op-ed by Pam Geller.

Goes with my general theme of those who do not understand history are utterly doomed to repeat it... And we certainly are. Please spend 5 minutes and read this. You don't have to agree with with her, of course, but think about it.

I do not agree with everything put forth in this article, especially the part about same sex marriage. But her history is spot on. Don't take our word for it if you disagree... I can recommend several resources to learn about who the Nazis really were. When you learn, the hair on your body will stand straight up when you look at our current and previous administrations through such a prism.


I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books in six languages, and have studied history all my life. I think there is something monumentally large afoot, and Ido not believe it is just a banking crisis, or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes, these exist
but they are merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now
coming into a sharper focus.

Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it
because I know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people
react to it. Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something
happening within our country that has been evolving for about 10 - 15 years.
The pace has dramatically quickened in the past two.



We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing
our economy. Why?

We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history,
and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think
critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are
not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why?

We have now established the precedent of protesting every close
election (now violently in California over a proposition that is so
controversial that it wants marriage to remain between one man and one
woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?). We
have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to
write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream
Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana republic. To what purpose?

Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free
fall, major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of
collapse, Social Security is nearly bankrupt, as is Medicare and our entire
government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college and
know precisely what I am talking about.) The list is staggering in its
length, breadth, and depth. It is potentially 1929 x 10. And we are at war
with an enemy we cannot name for fear of offending people of the same
religion who cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if they have
the opportunity to do so.

And now we have elected a man no one knows anything about, who has
never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big as Wasilla ,
Alaska . All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in
their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip
by drip, is unsettling if not d ownright scary (Surely you have heard him
speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force
stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course.
The media would never play that for you over and over and then demand he
answer it. Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter and $150,000 wardrobe is more
important.)




I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am
now. This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has
never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will
divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign
the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed
coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again.



I thought I would never be able to experience what the ordinary, moral
German felt in the mid-1930s. In those times, the savior was a former
smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average German knew next to nothing. What they did know was that he was associated with groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great oratory and promises. Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he was a great speaker. And he smiled and waved a lot. And people, even newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his "brown shirts" would bully them into submission.

And then he was duly elected to office, with a full-throttled economic
crisis at hand [the Great Depression]. Slowly but surely he seized the
controls of government power, department by department, person by person,
bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The kids joined a Youth Movement in his name,
where they were taught what to think. How did he get the people on his
side? He did it promising jobs to the jobless, money to the moneyless, and
goodies for the military-industrial complex. He did it by indoctrinating
the children, advocating gun control, health care for all, better wages,
better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in the country,
across Europe , and across the world.

He did it with a compliant media - Did you know that? And he did this
all in the name of justice and .. . .. change. And the people surely got
what they voted for. (Look it up if you think I am exaggerating.) Read
your history books. Many people objected in 1933 and were shouted down,
called names, laughed at, and made fun of. When Winston Churchill pointed
out the obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the House of Lords in
England (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and
called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though ..

Don't forget that Germany was the most educated, cultured country in
Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and
universities. And in less than six years - a shorter time span than just
two terms of the U. S. presidency - it was rounding up its own citizens,
killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents, and
neighbors against neighbors. All with the best of intentions, of course.
The road to Hell is paved with them.

[Grace]

I'm curious about the parts with which you do agree.

[Puckstop31]

The last 5 paragraphs sum it up perfectly.

She talks about marriage laws in a light that might seem she disagrees with same sex marriage. I personally have no problems with same sex couples recieving the benefits of marriage. I would not call it marriage, but that is my opinion.

But before we derail this thread already... What do you think about this? Can you see the parallels?

[Grace]

Personally, I think she's as wacky as a Saturday morning cartoon.

[Puckstop31]

Fair enough. But can you please tell me why you think that? I ask because the historical parallels are undeniable.

Now, before you dismiss me, I need to explain a bit further. No, I do not think the current administration has a goal of exterminating a race of people as the Nazis did. Nor do I think that they have evil intentions. but I do believe their goals are completley fascist in their nature. It will be "nanny state" fascism, but fascism none the less.

Dictionary.com defines fascism as...

"(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."

We are not fully there yet, but it is going that way. There is time to stop it, but only if more people will be willing to see what is going on.

Have you ever wondered why the President's "Auto Task Force" has not ONE person on it who actually knows the Auto Industry? Better yet, how does he know what "cars the American people want to buy" are?

Death and suppression by a thousand paper cuts.

[Grace]

You lost me as soon as I read her diatribe. This over-the-top hysteria because Obama was elected President - as my husband says, some people always have to have a bogeyman.

When one spews extreme vitriol, one only succeeds in pushing people away – alienating them.

[Puckstop31]

You lost me as soon as I read her diatribe. This over-the-top hysteria because Obama was elected President - as my husband says, some people always have to have a bogeyman.
When one spews extreme vitriol, one only succeeds in pushing people away – alienating them.

EXACTLY. For this President, it just happens to be big business. Soon, it will be some other "crisis". A crisis that only HE (government) can solve. If that solution requires a little bit of Liberty be lost, so be it.

GWB did the same thing. Did you defend people on your side "spewing vitriol" in the EXACT same manner as this op-ed does? But personally, I do not see how drawing a historical comparison is "vitriol". That's the cool thing about historical fact... Its FACT. We can disagree with the conclusion of intent, but there is no denying the comparison.

So, you could be right. We could end up living in a land of sunshine and roses. But then again, there is historical precedent for what is going on and the results have always been the same.

[Grace]

When I said as my husband says, some people always have to have a bogeyman., I was referring to the author of the article you posted.

I don’t want to get into a name-calling thing with you, but Obama Derangement Syndrome seems to be a problem for Ms Geller. She believes that "any black man is ineligible to run for President and that any vote for himself or anyone else is invalid". That tells me all I need to know about this person.

I don’t argue with the historical facts – I argue with her comparing Obama with the leaders of the Third Reich.

I’m sorry you agree with her. I thought better of you. Now I’m out of this very unpleasant topic.

[kuhio98]

I don’t want to get into a name-calling thing with you, but Obama Derangement Syndrome seems to be a problem for Ms Geller. She believes that "any black man is ineligible to run for President and that any vote for himself or anyone else is invalid". That tells me all I need to know about this person.
Please cite your source for that quote. I didn't see it in the above posting. I'm interested in learning more.

[Grace]

Please cite your source for that quote. I didn't see it in the above posting. I'm interested in learning more.

source (http://www.chasingevil.org/2008/08/pam-geller-goes-over-edge.html)

Puck, if you had used this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/02/AR2009040203287.html?nav=most_emailed_emailafriend ), I would have given your topic more serious thought.

[Puckstop31]

source (http://www.chasingevil.org/2008/08/pam-geller-goes-over-edge.html)

Puck, if you had used this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/02/AR2009040203287.html?nav=most_emailed_emailafriend ), I would have given your topic more serious thought.


Wow... I'd love to find the complaint Ms. Geller filed. Because if what the "chasingevil" site says is true, you would be correct to say that she is a bigot. Something to do this evening I suppose. :)

Sources aside... No matter where you get it from, the similarities are undeniable. And its not just our current President. Its been pretty much every administration since Woodrow Wilson. Slowly but surely creeping more and more into our lives.

But thanks for the info. I do have some more reading to do.

[lizbud]

Talk about "utterly doomed". It's a great discription of anyone who
gives weight to any of this woman's thoughts & ideals.

Do you follow her blog? What a dingbat.:rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

I don’t argue with the historical facts – I argue with her comparing Obama with the leaders of the Third Reich.



You may not argue with historical facts -- but most historians do!

"Facts" -- as it used is a slippery word. The Allies won WWII. That is a fact. We know because there are documents with that and signatures, etc.

But HOW they won the war? That all becomes interpretation and analysis. One historian may consider a certain battle the "key" another a different battle.

I am a volunteer at a local historical site. We frequently have historian come in and speak to us. No two have the same story. And - if you have a Native American historian and a historian whose focus is the European view -- Look out! Sparks are going to fly. Last week it was historians from two branches of the local tribe -- even they don't agree.

I once visited a WWII museum in Normandy. I will never forget one line from the film they showed - About the "surprisingly audacious Yanks" who sort of popped in at the end and helped out a bit.

There is an expression that "history is written by the side that won the war." That is why the name "Civil War" is more common than "War of Northern Aggression."

So to suggest that someone's interpretation or analysis of historical events is a valid predictor of future events is to confuse cause with effect. The effect is the fact...the cause is opinion. If that was not true -- there would only be one book on history.

p.s. I so often hear people compare Obama to Hitler based on his oratory skills and his desire to change how our government works. Great communicator who wants to change government -- doesn't that describe Reagan? Yet, I never hear him compared to Hitler.

[Grace]

I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books in six languages, and have studied history all my life.

I went searching and found 2 books by Pamela Geller. One by Pamela L. Geller; the other by Pamela A. Geller. I’m reasonably sure that neither of these women is the Pam Geller from Atlas Shrugs - the author of the piece Puck posted. (Alliteration anyone?)

Do you frequent that site on a regular basis? Dingbat is the word lizbud used to describe her – I think that is a kind assessment.

[Cataholic]

Truly, I thought I heard, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling" by the second paragraph. Wacky as a Saturday morning cartoon is a funny, but, apt, description!

[Puckstop31]

You may not argue with historical facts -- but most historians do!

"Facts" -- as it used is a slippery word. The Allies won WWII. That is a fact. We know because there are documents with that and signatures, etc.

But HOW they won the war? That all becomes interpretation and analysis. One historian may consider a certain battle the "key" another a different battle.

To argue the value of a certain engagement, in the scope of a campaign and it's effects on the over all resolution of a conflict is one thing... To say that how the leaders of the Third Reich came to power is still a matter for wide debate is another matter entirely. The very fact that the Nazi's documented almost everything they did provides more than enough evidence on it's own. But couple that evidence with reading Mein Kampf..... Barring a new discovery, the course of events in Central Europe in the decade and a half before WWII are well known.

Don't belive me? Read some the the U.S. authors, the self described "progressives" fawning over Mussolini and Hitler in the 1930's. You have to really dig to find it, but it is there.



I once visited a WWII museum in Normandy. I will never forget one line from the film they showed - About the "surprisingly audacious Yanks" who sort of popped in at the end and helped out a bit.

Ahh the English.... LOL


There is an expression that "history is written by the side that won the war." That is why the name "Civil War" is more common than "War of Northern Aggression."

It's better to say that "the side that won is the version that is taught." There is PLENTY of material on WWII writen from the Axis players.



p.s. I so often hear people compare Obama to Hitler based on his oratory skills and his desire to change how our government works. Great communicator who wants to change government -- doesn't that describe Reagan? Yet, I never hear him compared to Hitler.

It's not his oratory skills. I belive Obama is not as great a orator as we are lead to belive. A great orator does not sound like a 15 Y/O boy asking a girl out on a date. Without the prompter, its almost uncomfortable to listen to him. Nor is it his desire to change government that I draw the comparison. Its HOW he wants to change things. Clearly he wants more power for the Federal Government. It's not the things he promises... All politicans make promises... It's HOW he wants to make those promises come true. He wants you to depend on somebody else, rather than empowering you to do it yourself.

Dependance = slavery.

[Puckstop31]

I went searching and found 2 books by Pamela Geller. One by Pamela L. Geller; the other by Pamela A. Geller. I’m reasonably sure that neither of these women is the Pam Geller from Atlas Shrugs - the author of the piece Puck posted. (Alliteration anyone?)

Do you frequent that site on a regular basis? Dingbat is the word lizbud used to describe her – I think that is a kind assessment.

The article was forwarded to me in a email. I have never seen her blog before. Nor to I read it.

Frankly, had I checked her out before I posted this, I would have not posted it. The racial stuff she said is totally wrong. So please do not take anything I say as a defence of her as a person.

This said, the points I am supporting are valid. Her style may be very poor, but at least in this case she has some valid, IMO, points.

If you disagree with me, that is fine. But do so because you disagree with the substance, not the style. I fear way to many people vote for style anymore, without any concern for substance and merit.

[Grace]

I learned long ago to check out any and all items such as this one that I receive in an email.

I wouldn't trust anything she spouts.

The sky is falling is perfect!

[lizbud]

It's not his oratory skills. I belive Obama is not as great a orator as we are lead to belive. A great orator does not sound like a 15 Y/O boy asking a girl out on a date. Without the prompter, its almost uncomfortable to listen to him.


" As we were lead to believe." ? Why do you chose to believe your lying ears??? :D
I would much prefer a man consider his choice of words than rattle off a standard answer of BS.

[Puckstop31]

" As we were lead to believe." ? Why do you chose to believe your lying ears??? :D
I would much prefer a man consider his choice of words than rattle off a standard answer of BS.

Ahhh Liz.... I guess Barack Obama can never do any wrong in your eyes eh?

"Considering his words..." THAT's rich. But I do applaud your effort to defend him. You are certainly loyal... Much like the French SS Guard Battalion stayed loyal to Hitler until the very end in Berlin.

[Puckstop31]

I learned long ago to check out any and all items such as this one that I receive in an email.

I wouldn't trust anything she spouts.

The sky is falling is perfect!

Are you reading anything I am saying?

I don't CARE who wrote what was said. I care about the CONTENT. She might be a whacko, but she said some things that I agree with.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

But I see, more and more, why you people who belive in Obama, do so. It seems to me that style matters more than substance.

[Grace]

Much like the French SS Guard Battalion stayed loyal to Hitler until the very end in Berlin.

You keep comparing Obama to Hitler.


I don't CARE who wrote what was said. I care about the CONTENT. She might be a whacko, but she said some things that I agree with.

Fine - agree with them. But don't expect the rest of us to be in lock-step with you.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Some people seem to assume the rest of us have never read a book and live in ignorance.

Some time ago I became interested in WWII. So I asked some REAL experts what I should read. I started out with "Mein Kampf" - after all it is the beginning, then I read Wm Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and Albert Speer's "Inside the Third Reich." It went on from there. The whole video series about the war, the TIME/Life series as well as many first hand accounts.

I an not an expert. And my interests have moved on. But I know enough that this whackjob (that website!! She makes Ann Coulter look sweet and gentle!) is playing another version of the bogus parlor game...Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln!

The comparisons are opinions at best. There are so many, many more differences between the situation in the US today and Germany when Hilter took over. And between Hilter and Obama. But of course...who would circulate an email that pointed those out????

And I also know enough to put Normandy in France -- not England!

[Puckstop31]

You keep comparing Obama to Hitler.

Because there are similarities. Perhaps not motivations, but certainly in methods.




Fine - agree with them. But don't expect the rest of us to be in lock-step with you.

I never would. Remember my prime belief in politics... Individual Liberty is the most important thing a government should preserve. The minimal amount of interference possible.

[lizbud]

Ahhh Liz.... I guess Barack Obama can never do any wrong in your eyes eh?

"Considering his words..." THAT's rich. But I do applaud your effort to defend him. You are certainly loyal... Much like the French SS Guard Battalion stayed loyal to Hitler until the very end in Berlin.


I am very aware that you must maintain some semblance of self respect
after posting such a outrageous peace of garbage, while urging people to
read and be enlightened by it. Geeze.:rolleyes:

I am amazed you actually hadn't checked out your source before you
posted in the first place.

[Puckstop31]

Some people seem to assume the rest of us have never read a book and live in ignorance.

I assume nothing.


Some time ago I became interested in WWII. So I asked some REAL experts what I should read. I started out with "Mein Kampf" - after all it is the beginning, then I read Wm Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and Albert Speer's "Inside the Third Reich." It went on from there. The whole video series about the war, the TIME/Life series as well as many first hand accounts.

I've read all those titles, plus many more. I've been involved with first hand interviews with veterans. The research was for some articles published in WWII Magazine.

Have you watched the Band of Brothers series? I live about 30 miles from Major Winters. I've met him, several times and have had the absolute privilidge of talking with him at length about his experiences.


Having read Mein Kampf... Certainly, Barack Obama's motivations are not similar. But some of the methods are, would you not agree? Face it ES... You are a very self confident person. You think that your way is THE way. You've said before... "If people keep making stupid decisions...." The context was in reference to controlling people. Admit it or not, you have Fascist tendencies.



The comparisons are opinions at best. There are so many, many more differences between the situation in the US today and Germany when Hilter took over. And between Hilter and Obama. But of course...who would circulate an email that pointed those out????

I can back up my opinions by merely linking a few articles showing things The President has said. But you are right... It is my opinion. I hope I am wrong.

I got the email from my boss... Who is admittedly a mindless Republican. I should have known better than to use it without sourcing. The lady is clearly a nutjob. BUT... I do agree with some of the stuff I said. SOME.


And I also know enough to put Normandy in France -- not England!


:rolleyes:

Of course Normandy is in France. May I ask what museum you visited? The British and Canadians referred to the Americans as "Yanks". The French generally did not.

So like you... You cannot just resist the personal dig. You are such a hypocrite. You rant and rave at Blue, yet you do this. I cannot believe I actually offered you a olive branch. Shocking that you chose not to accept.

[Puckstop31]

I am very aware that you must maintain some semblence of self respect
after posting such a outrageous peace of garbage, while urging people to
read and be enlightened by it. Geeze.:rolleyes:

I am amazed you actually hadn't checked out your source before you
posted in the first place.

Thats the thing... I admit my errors. The person who wrote the piece is clearly has issues. BUT, SOME of what she said I agree with. Just like Rush Limbaugh is a loud mouth jerk. I still agree with him from time to time.

So, can we please get past the person who wrote it? Grace posted a link from Krauthammer, saying similar things. Does that make him an "idiot" too?

Self respect? Do you really think I give one ounce of concern to what YOU think of me Liz? I would if you had the guts to actually engage from time to time. You know, have an original thought and the courage to share it. The only reason you have said as much in this thread as you have is because you have something on me this time. Something which I fully admit was an error.

[blue]

"any black man is ineligible to run for President and that any vote for himself or anyone else is invalid".


Did anybody actually check the FECs press releases to see if this is factual?

[Twisterdog]

Truly, I thought I heard, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling" by the second paragraph. Wacky as a Saturday morning cartoon is a funny, but, apt, description!

My thoughts exactly.

[Puckstop31]

To the "sky is falling folks..."

What do you call what is going on right now? How do you justify TRILLIONS of dollars of deficit spending? Spending that is neither borrowed or "earned", but simply created out of thin air? What do you call government control of private business and a Treasury Secretary begging for more?

What do you call the 58 TRILLION dollars in unfunded benefits promised out right now?

Bury your heads in the sand if you like... But i'll be OK taking the ridicule from you and ending up being wrong. But if I am right.... Good luck to ya.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Admit it or not, you have Fascist tendencies.



This kind of childish and silly name calling is why I keep you on ignore.

[Puckstop31]

This kind of childish and silly name calling is why I keep you on ignore.

LOL

I cannot believe you can say that with a straight face...

I call a spade a spade. Sue me. And as usual... Style matters more than substance.

[blue]

I did dig through quite a few press releases from the FEC, the source quoted for chasingevil's blog, on their own website and no where did I find any quote from Pam Geller.

It realy dosent take more then a basic HS world history to note the similarities between what the current administration is doing to what pre WWII Germany did succesfully. Pam Geller went over the top in her delivery but that dosent negate her point.

Plus she looks great in a bikini.

[Puckstop31]

Some evidence of my point...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123879833094588163.html

The meat...


Under the Bush team a prominent and profitable bank, under threat of a damaging public audit, was forced to accept less than $1 billion of TARP money. The government insisted on buying a new class of preferred stock which gave it a tiny, minority position. The money flowed to the bank. Arguably, back then, the Bush administration was acting for purely economic reasons. It wanted to recapitalize the banks to halt a financial panic.

Fast forward to today, and that same bank is begging to give the money back. The chairman offers to write a check, now, with interest. He's been sitting on the cash for months and has felt the dead hand of government threatening to run his business and dictate pay scales. He sees the writing on the wall and he wants out. But the Obama team says no, since unlike the smaller banks that gave their TARP money back, this bank is far more prominent. The bank has also been threatened with "adverse" consequences if its chairman persists. That's politics talking, not economics.

Think about it: If Rick Wagoner can be fired and compact cars can be mandated, why can't a bank with a vault full of TARP money be told where to lend? And since politics drives this administration, why can't special loans and terms be offered to favored constituents, favored industries, or even favored regions? Our prosperity has never been based on the political allocation of credit -- until now.

Which brings me to the Pay for Performance Act, just passed by the House. This is an outstanding example of class warfare. I'm an Englishman. We invented class warfare, and I know it when I see it. This legislation allows the administration to dictate pay for anyone working in any company that takes a dime of TARP money. This is a whip with which to thrash the unpopular bankers, a tool to advance the Obama administration's goal of controlling the financial system.

President Obama's motivations migh be different, but his methods are NOT. President Obama is doing the same things the hated former President Bush did, only on a scale MUCH more grand.

How about we stop fighting each other and focus on a corrupt government that day in and day out is removing our Liberty, paper cut by papercut?

All this from a President who has never lead a business... Not even a Dairy Queen....

[Grace]

For those who missed Blue's white-out -


Plus she looks great in a bikini.

[blue]

For those who missed Blue's white-out -

Good catch, way to ignore the meat of my post.

[Grace]

Good catch, way to ignore the meat of my post.

I was under the impression, mistaken apparently, that you and Puck were requested not to do white outs.

[blue]

I was under the impression, mistaken apparently, that you and Puck were requested not to do white outs.

I slipped. People get asked to stop the insults all the time also.

Edit: Again, way to ignore the main part of the post.

[Puckstop31]

I was under the impression, mistaken apparently, that you and Puck were requested not to do white outs.


All style.... No substance....


Who cares about what matters... As long as you are "nice".

[sparks19]

This kind of childish and silly name calling is why I keep you on ignore.

Really? coming from the person who talks to people like this I'm not sure you have a moral ground to stand on.




We can certainly tell he did not take advantage of public education.

He does not even know the correct names of the states!

perhaps we should ALL try to be a little more respectful to those we speak to whether we feel they are beneath us or not. what a world this would be if only we ALL treated people the way WE wish to be treated. None of us are innocent... so I'm not sure any of us should be pointing out the shortcomings of others (even though I just did and am very aware of it and I will face my own demons thank you)... we have plenty of our own ;) so before we complain about the way people talk to u s... maybe we should look at the way we talk to others


I was under the impression, mistaken apparently, that you and Puck were requested not to do white outs.

ummm... puck does white outs? lol never seen one. Perhaps I am wrong as I sometimes am.

But this is neither here nor there... I have been enjoying reading this thread and the information in it... so lets get back to that.
I will fully admit that I don't know much on any of this and I am enjoying the read... until it turns into breaking down posts and looking for hidden meanings and calling each other out :(

[blue]

"any black man is ineligible to run for President and that any vote for himself or anyone else is invalid"


"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed."


Until somebody can post a factual link for the source of Grace's quote, the second quote proves true.

Please prove my above statement wrong. I will humbly admit I was wrong.

[Catty1]

Try this - I don't have time to back-check it, but it seems to have been written by Geller in August of last year.

http://www.chasingevil.org/2008/08/pam-geller-goes-over-edge.html

[blue]

A spokesperson for the Federal Elections Commission has released a statement that they received a complaint recently from Pamela Geller, author of the Atlas Shrugs website.

Dosent anybody actualy check the Federal Election Commision's press releases before posting blogs? Link (http://www.fec.gov/press/press2008/2008NewsReleases.shtml). Link (http://search.fec.gov/search?q=pamela+geller&ie=&site=fecgov_collection&output=xml_no_dtd&client=fecgov_collection&lr=&proxystylesheet=fecgov_collection&oe=&x=0&y=0). Link (http://search.fec.gov/search?client=fecgov_collection&site=fecgov_collection&output=xml_no_dtd&proxystylesheet=fecgov_collection&ie=&oe=&num=10&btnG=Search&as_q=pamela+geller&as_epq=any+black+man+is+ineligible+to+run+for+Pres ident+and+that+any+vote+for+himself+or+anyone+else +is+invalid&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_occt=any&lr=&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&sort=&as_lq=). Link (http://search.fec.gov/search?client=fecgov_collection&site=fecgov_collection&output=xml_no_dtd&proxystylesheet=fecgov_collection&ie=&oe=&num=10&btnG=Search&as_q=pamela+geller&as_epq=did+not+allow+for+slaves+to+vote&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_occt=any&lr=&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&sort=&as_lq=).

It seems many of you are attacking the messenger and ignoring the message.

[smokey the elder]

Back to the original piece posted: "Correlation doesn't mean causation". This is a scientific principle which must be kept in mind. Is there a problem with the education system in the US? Yes. Are there other problems? Yes. Is the press not acting as the "loyal opposition" when it must? Maybe. BUT the fact that people have the ability to communicate via the Internet and other vehicles, whether or not they agree or disagree, may foster that critical thinking so prized by Heinlein and others.