Diane Sawyer - Appalachian Special [Archive]

Pam

02-15-2009, 05:35 AM

I saw it and, like you, can't get it off my mind. I think it goes way beyond "having kids you can't afford, etc." I was left with the impression that this lifestyle leads to depression and hopelessness and this is not always easy to overcome. Even one of the children commented that she feels her mom is on drugs because of despair. I think we'd better not judge them until we have walked in their shoes. It is only by the grace of God that most of us here were born into loving families with resources to give us all of the opportunities that these people lack.

The young boy in the beginning (the football star) had a chance to break out and couldn't make it in college and came back. :( I don't think we have seen the last of him, however. I feel certainly that someone who has watched this program will step in and help him. Diane Sawyer did a similar show on life in the city of Camden, NJ (10 miles from me) a few years ago and there was a tremendous outpouring of help for the families featured in that program. I hope this program will do the same for the people of Appalachia.

Marigold2

02-15-2009, 08:55 AM

I too hope that the young man gets a change and I am sure people will step up to help. We Americans can do great things.
All of those drug taking, hopeless adults were once cute kids suffering as well and instead of saying to themselves " I won't do this to my kids" they have generation after generation. They need to change, they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and want to improve.
Sitting at home collecting welfare, taking drugs and having more kids is not the answer. It has never worked for any country or any generation.
America still offers free education. The library is free, the internet is free, there are books on Word, Excel, Powerpoint. Books on writing a resume, how to get a job. There are wonderful people who work there who will help you, explain things to you. There are newspapers where you can look for a job. Many have classes on babysitting, book clubs, and computer classes all free.
The library is a place you can take your kids to and spend all day. Books to read, puzzles to do. I use to walk to ours and spend the whole afternoon there with my three kids, especially in the summer as we did not having AC in our first home. I would feed the kids lunch and we would walk the mile there, spend 3 or 4 hours and then walk home and have dinner it was wonderful. My daughter loved it so much that her first job was as a library aid.
I don't know anything about AA but if there is not a chapter close perhaps someone could call and they can start one. Maybe someone from the local high school can tutor a group of adults in math or reading.
Also many hospitals offer free classes on everything from child birth to planning for retirement, also things such as healthy eating, exercise, weight control the list is endless. These opinions are already in place they just need to get of their butts and take advantage of them.
There are so many opinions, so many. A bit of imagination, lots of hardwork and a willingness to change and improve is what it takes. Giving these people welfare generation after generation is not the answer.
As I said I don't have pity for the adults, they were those cute kids once and they saw and experienced the hardship. Kids are always cute and we always want to help them but people need to help themselves, people need to change and give back, not just take and take and take.

Pam

02-15-2009, 09:04 AM

You have to try and put yourself into their mindset. I am sure depression plays a tremendous role. Many of the people that live high in the mountains do not have access to many of the things that you comment on. They have no cars to even get to a job. Remember the woman who had to walk 8 miles each day (one direction)? I am sure many of those kids have no access to a lot of what you are mentioning. Did you hear one of them say that they can't even remember ever having a book in their home when they were growing up? Libraries and internet are not available when you are that rural. Some do not even have electricity. Yes, it is a cycle for sure but I find myself having more pity for these people than I do for the inner city poor. They have the same despair and depression and collect the same welfare, but are within walking distance of places where they can get help.

Medusa

02-15-2009, 10:10 AM

I could barely sit through the segment, it was so painful to watch. IMO, what most people in Appalachia are lacking is hope. When you lose hope, you give up. Even if they say that they haven't given up, it's clear that many have.

It's easy for us to say "Go to the library" while we sit here in the comfort of our warm homes typing out insensitive words on our computer keyboard but if you haven't had a place to lay your head and you're cold and sore and bones are aching from lack of sleep and peace of mind, and then you have to walk 8 miles one way to get a GED, it takes a strong mindset and will to plod through.

My father was raised in poverty, not in Appalachia, but poverty nonetheless. He was a coal miner who, in his time, was paid by the ton, ie., how much coal he mined determined his pay check. Plus he worked w/explosives and many days worked in waist high water. He got caught in a cave-in once and had second degree burns on his back but he went back to work immediately after being treated. He didn't pack a lunch; he worked through his lunch hour so that he could mine an extra ton of coal to bring home more money. We didn't have a car then, so he rode the bus to and from work and from our apartment window I would watch him get off the bus and drag himself home, too tired to remove his helmet, face black w/coal dust and weary from working underground all day. He'd run his bath water and fall asleep in the tub every day, then go to bed, wake up at 2:00 AM and have a big breakfast, which was sometimes last night's dinner, then get on the bus that morning and do it all over again. He never gave up and only retired because the mine that he worked in closed and he would've had to work out of state and at age 62, decided against that. He retired w/benefits and black lung disease. We were never wealthy, to be sure, and we were broke more often than not, but we were never poor. Being broke is a condition; being poor is a state of mind.

Daisy and Delilah

02-15-2009, 10:11 AM

I'm so glad some of you saw it. Pam, you're right on the money with what you're saying. I will tell some of my story and it might make some of it clearer.

I had just married my husband(1st). He was from a small town in southwestern Virginia. We moved there because my husband wanted to. At the time, I was very young and pretty spoiled, growing up in Florida. My Mom couldn't give us alot but she did her best. We ended up living with my husband's family. His Dad was a coal miner, they had 16 children and most of them lived in the same house. Outside toilet, no running water, hence, no hot water. They heated the house with a coal and wood stove that basically heated the room it was in. We were lucky if any heat made it to other areas at all. Good luck if you're trying to sleep and it's -0- degrees outside.

My FIL owed his soul to the company store--he still did when he died of black lung after 39 years in the mines. They lived on beans, taters, and, bread. No meat, and, veggies that were home grown and canned.

Those people rarely left the 5 mile radius of their homes. Being raised by their ancestors that are all uneducated, no one knows what the wrong and right ways are for almost everything. They know what they've been taught and that's it. If someone comes along and tries to change them, it's usually futile because they're basically too frightened to try anything new. Kids drop out of school as soon as it's legal and the parent's let them. After all, they may need them for something around the house, garden, etc.

They are good, God fearing people but they are very unapproachable. It took forever for them to even speak to me.

That was back in the mid 70's. I was shocked at how these people live. I called it uncivilized. They are all terrified to leave their families. If they're family members aren't all moving away for a better life, it's much easier for them to stay together and live this way.

As far as the Diane Sawyer special. I'm sure she depicted some areas accurately but not all the Appalachians are like that. I saw the local doctor(one doctor)give out alot of meds, non narcotic,(at that time) to alot of people because they were so unhealthy and complaining of multiple ailments. Believe it or not, these people are so simple and sometimes so bored, their illnessess, large or small, are the only things they have to talk about. They become obsessed with that and believe that taking meds is the way life should be. Alot of them drink soda but not all of them are force feeding their children Mountain Dew. The incest is another thing. I didn't personally see it but I think it's probably there.

One of the ladies had tattoos. I didn't ever see a tattoo there. everyone smokes because it seems the way to live because everybody does it. If you never hear how bad it is, how do you know, or care?

This is just a small piece of it. I think alot of us can't understand that people can actually be like this. This is why these people need to be exposed and helped asap. It won't be easy to get them to accept the help because they're extremely proud people.

If anyone wants to learn alot more about it, go to the ABC website and read the comments. Very interesting reading there. There are hundreds of people willing to help Shawn Grim--the boy that dropped out of school.
I personally believe that Shawn could have gotten help to stay there but he was too scared to continue. He had lost confidence again. He was the high school hero but college life was just too much. He knew his family would give him a comfortable feeling by coming home.
I read that he's making $60K a year in the coal mines now. $60K is not nearly enough to pay those people for what they do. Some say that that's not living in poverty. After hearing some of the stories I've heard about going in the mines, I think people would agree that $60K can't touch the humility, danger, and fear the mines have to offer.

I should also say that: I really believe that prescription pain killers are given out and used by many many people there now. The areas are perfect for introducing something like that and everybody wanting to get in on it. That's the way they are. The documentary made it appear that they are all living on pills and starving their children. Not the case. They love their children. Most of them are probably charging the food for the kids, getting food stamps, government give aways, eating at relatives homes. They also have alot of store keepers that will exchange cash for food stamps. Most of them live on medicaid so they get the original rx's free. Everybody knows everybody and there could be barter exchanges going on for those large quantites of pills. It's a life that most of us can't imagine.

pomtzu

02-15-2009, 11:35 AM

Mary & Terry - that's pretty heavy stuff!!!
All to often we take for granted and complain about our lives, and what we don't have - and then to see the way life is just a few hundred miles from here! I just can't even imaging the strife that they live every day. :(
I didn't see the whole show when it was on (sleep takes over again), but I'll watch the video available from ABC a little later.

Pam

02-15-2009, 01:38 PM

Medusa and Terry thank you for your stories. I hope they, and the documentary, have shed some light and I hope that those who are in positions to do something will act, and soon. I remember a few years ago going on vacation to the Skyline Drive in Virginia. We passed through West Virginia and saw much poverty along the way. You could actually see daylight through a few of the houses. We stopped at a Mc Donald's and a man sat there eating crackers that were given to him for free, along with little packets of ketchup that are given out with hamburgers that he carefully spread over the crackers. From his conversation with the workers you could tell that he was a "regular" and this was an example of how he was able to eat. I was fascinated with how people could exist with so little. A few years ago I also caught another documentary on life in Appalachia and it centered around one family. I believe it was on PBS although I could be wrong but it was excellent and I can still remember the family vividly in my mind. They were good people, just not able to rise above the circumstances of their birth.

I found a writer (Sharyn McCrumb) a few years ago who writes about life in Appalachia. She lives and writes in the Blue Ridge mountains less than 100 miles from where her family settled in 1790 in the Smoky Mountains. The first book I read by her was The Rosewood Casket and I think I have read all of her books by now. Her books, though fiction, will take you to a place that you have never gone and you will be hooked from the start (at least I was).

Alysser

02-15-2009, 03:50 PM

I honestly had no idea people still lived like that, it's sickening, especially in "America". :rolleyes: I watched and I was speechless, at the end when they said that boy gave up on college I was really sad, he was really trying to make a life for himself. I am glad though that the Girl named Angel got her GED and I'm glad these people are trying at least...

It makes me really want to help, I'm glad I'm young and I can possibly help some of these people in the future. I hope this documentary really raises awareness and more people try and help! My cousin goes there every summer for 2 weeks with a volunteer organization to help out down there, it's good they are getting more help :) The guy who made a mobile dentist made me happier. Incest, drugs, hunger, etc are really bad problems up there but I hope to god that they can solve it. I cannot believe people live in such poverty it makes me so sad. Maybe now they will start getting the help they needed.

The guy in the coal mines made me really sad to, he was only 19 years old!! They might make a "good" salary but they die very young I'm sure :( That show was pretty powerful, I'm sure it moved many people and I hope it is going to be the start of a change for Appalachia.

Pam

02-16-2009, 12:04 PM

Diane Sawyer said today that tomorrow morning on GMA they will have an update on this show reflecting the outpouring of interest that everyone had after viewing. I hope I remember to watch. Better tie a string around my finger. :o

Daisy and Delilah

02-16-2009, 12:33 PM

Thanks Pam!! I'll get a reminder post it on the tv now. There was a huge response to it and alot of the comments were directed at Diane herself. I know she was hurt by many of the remarks.:(

Pam

02-17-2009, 06:45 AM

Well that was a short little update (but encouraging!). Terry I hope you saw it. Lots of people have responded as I knew they would. They are going to update further on 20/20 on Friday night. :)

smokey the elder

02-17-2009, 07:07 AM

All these charities come on pitching to help kids overseas, but I never see a commercial for a charity helping American poor kids, whether they be inner city, Native Americans on the reservation or Appalachians. I think these people tend to fall through the cracks (out of sight, out of mind.) No person should have to mine for a living, IMO. It's very dangerous, and this is one place where I think it's better to use machinery, and train the people to operate the machines.

Cataholic

02-17-2009, 08:46 AM

Thanks Pam!! I'll get a reminder post it on the tv now. There was a huge response to it and alot of the comments were directed at Diane herself. I know she was hurt by many of the remarks.:(

D&D, I didn't see the special, but, want to watch 20/20 this Friday night. Why were people directing the hurtful comments to Diane?

Daisy and Delilah

02-17-2009, 09:14 AM

D&D, I didn't see the special, but, want to watch 20/20 this Friday night. Why were people directing the hurtful comments to Diane?

The comments are mostly from natives of the area that are angry about the way she dipicted them all as toothless, incestuous, good for nothing, drug addicts. The show covered the fact that not all people are like that but many of the people still feel like they're being made to look bad again. She is from Kentucky and she's apparently seen by some as uppity and unknowing about how things really go there.

There were also dozens of angry comments directed at her for not offering to put the young man through college that supposedly dropped out due to lack of funds. Not just directed at Diane but to ABC and others.

Of course, there were people complaining about poverty in all areas and why would Diane concentrate on this area only.

There are hundreds of comments on the ABC website and some of them are ugly.

Pam: I did see it this morning. I was also reading about the actual help that's been given.

kokopup

02-17-2009, 10:47 AM

originally posted by Daisy and Delilah

The comments are mostly from natives of the area that are angry about the way she dipicted them all as toothless, incestuous, good for nothing, drug addicts. The show covered the fact that not all people are like that but many of the people still feel like they're being made to look bad again. She is from Kentucky and she's apparently seen by some as uppity and unknowing about how things really go there.

There were also dozens of angry comments directed at her for not offering to put the young man through college that supposedly dropped out due to lack of funds. Not just directed at Diane but to ABC and others.

Of course, there were people complaining about poverty in all areas and why would Diane concentrate on this area only.

There are hundreds of comments on the ABC website and some of them are ugly.

Pam: I did see it this morning. I was also reading about the actual help that's been given.
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I can see how the locals would be upset with how they are depicted.
I have seen media distortion for years, after all i was raised in Birmingham, Alabama. It is true that there are still pockets of poverty
in Appalachia. This is true for just about every region in the US. Look at our intercity. It is not fair to go out in the mountain and find a few families and make it a epidemic. Drug abuse is not unique to this or any region of our world. This is a problem that plagues all regions, And income groups. Incest is a another worldwide problem that they tried
to isolate to the Mountain people. We give it a name like child abuse or
some other name but it is still incest.The number one social problem in the Netherland is incest. This is a country with one of the highest standard of living in the world. There are religious groups that have incest as a part of there tenet's. This is not a unique problem to Appalachia

Changing social issues in is not easy from the outside. It must start from within. Martin Luther King would roll over in his grave if he could see how rampant black on black crime is. How do you stop this. It has
to be a change in the mindset of the people. This is true with Appalachia and the intercity of our larger cities. It is easy to have exposes' on the problems facing America and the world , that 20/20 is famous for, but harder to come up with solutions to these problems.

RICHARD

02-17-2009, 12:30 PM

Thanks Pam,

THis fits in with my thoughts of the last week.

I purchased on of those water purifying pitches - PUR - a few weeks ago.

I kinda glossed over the print on the box saying that by "purchasing this product, I am helping bring pure water to people overseas". I felt good for all of 3 seconds, Then Pam has to show up and kick my arse.;)

I don't really get on the bandwagon about any 'causes' anymore. Most of the money goes to amin costs and I was stunned at the 20 bucks I gave to greenpeace and the WWF and how it turned into 50 dollars of letters, pamphlets and mailing costs, just to get another 20 spot from me.

Yep, we do have a problem here in the U.S. with poverty.

You do have to give people credit-I seriously doubt anyone of us could make it living under those conditions. I have seen first hand the type of poverty in Mexico that is on par with what was on that show.

LOL, I probably still have the splinters in my ARSE from the wooden seat of the outdorr crapper.

We tend to feel put out about having to deal with little things like turning down the thermostat at night and have to go pee in a cold house.

On your way there, look out the window and think about a Number 2 in your weather in your part of the country.

We can and will commiserate with these poor folks and their way of life, but we first have to figure out why the OctoMom has a better set of fingernails than us, Who is going to win the Grammys on Sunday night and Our wonderful governmentand reps who will take a handout dollar for pet projects and pork barrel spending, but refuse to let it filter down to the poorest people in the nation.

My spin?

Build one nice house in each neighborhood and give it to a family. Like the show where they build ridiculously nice house for 'in need' families.

Don't put in all the unneeded crap like HDTVs, mircowave ovens and electric
window shades. Put in a crapper, a stove, heat and a washing machine, maybe?

Then tell everyone that this is what we have to offer to people if they choose to participate in what made our country great-Sawyer is another effing hack that went out of her way to put together this piece to shame the rest of the country- I looked at the South Central Dogs link and see the same thing.

The worst of a neighborhood - and the people there are fooled into giving a sound bite to people who manipulate the story for max shock value.

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Our heart strings will be tugged, but how much can we do for people who don't trust the 'revenuers' for help?

A sticky wicket at best, but to condemn the country, the citizens in and out of the area is really not fair.

The whole story needs to be looked at.

Medusa

02-17-2009, 12:53 PM

My spin?

Build one nice house in each neighborhood and give it to a family. Like the show where they build ridiculously nice house for 'in need' families.

Don't put in all the unneeded crap like HDTVs, mircowave ovens and electric
window shades. Put in a crapper, a stove, heat and a washing machine, maybe?

Then tell everyone that this is what we have to offer to people if they choose to participate in what made our country great.

That raises an interesting point: whatever happened to Habitat for Humanity? Do they not go into Appalachia? I think you're onto something, RICHARD.

RICHARD

02-17-2009, 01:11 PM

That raises an interesting point: whatever happened to Habitat for Humanity? Do they not go into Appalachia? I think you're onto something, RICHARD.

HFH demands that the owner put in what is called "sweat equity"-In other words, they have to do a percentage of the work to qualify for a HFH home and the loan.

Someone will correct me.:D

Daisy and Delilah

02-17-2009, 01:15 PM

I can see how the locals would be upset with how they are depicted.
I have seen media distortion for years, after all i was raised in Birmingham, Alabama. It is true that there are still pockets of poverty
in Appalachia. This is true for just about every region in the US. Look at our intercity. It is not fair to go out in the mountain and find a few families and make it a epidemic. Drug abuse is not unique to this or any region of our world. This is a problem that plagues all regions, And income groups. Incest is a another worldwide problem that they tried
to isolate to the Mountain people. We give it a name like child abuse or
some other name but it is still incest.The number one social problem in the Netherland is incest. This is a country with one of the highest standard of living in the world. There are religious groups that have incest as a part of there tenet's. This is not a unique problem to Appalachia

Changing social issues in is not easy from the outside. It must start from within. Martin Luther King would roll over in his grave if he could see how rampant black on black crime is. How do you stop this. It has
to be a change in the mindset of the people. This is true with Appalachia and the intercity of our larger cities. It is easy to have exposes' on the problems facing America and the world , that 20/20 is famous for, but harder to come up with solutions to these problems.

Very well said. You've made some wonderful points.

Having lived in the area for a few years, I was able to witness that dark side of life first hand. I longed for the day that those people would wake up and try to help themsleves. Eventually I realized, it would probably never happen. Changing social issues from the outside is nearly impossible for sure. Learning to live differently than you have for hundreds of years is nearly impossible as well.

To me, there is a fine line between exposing this situation or keeping it hidden. Either way, it should be depicted accurately.
I can also understand how those natives feel after seeing the program. It most likely brought them to feel ashamed of themselves. However, the website , as well as the show itself, provided disclaimers for the facts they were presenting. On one hand you could see it as being portrayed both ways I suppose. 1.) As if everyone in eastern Kentucky is living like that. or 2.) Only certain groups/families in exclusive pockets are living like that.

Appalachia is not the only area in the U.S. with the problems that were portrayed in Sunday's show. Not by any means. I want to believe that it wasn't ABC's intention to represent the fact that they thought it was exclusive. I hope Diane Sawyer did it to raise awareness of that area just in that particular program. Maybe we'll see other areas brought into the light after the comments she's received. I can agree with the points mentioned in alot of the comments but the nasty remarks were unnecessary.

I don't know if anything will reach these people. Will they ever choose to live another way? I believe they are distinct from others in comparable situations. As I said before, it's hard to explain. I've met alot of people in my life but never any people exactly like the people of the mountains. I considered my husband's family as some of the more learned people there. I never met the people that lived even further on top of the mountains and deeper in the hollers. It was a character building experience from the first day I was there. I'm a different person today because of it.

I can't relate to all those people in the show. I know the residents of the area can't completely relate to all of them either. I do think they need to open their eyes and realize these problems exist rather than acting as if they don't. I was surprised at how many comments indicated the situation isn't realistic.

If something can be done, I hope 20/20 can make sure that something is done and follow through with it. In the meantime, I hope they continue to bring improvement and expose other parts of the country that are suffering. I shudder to think they do this for ratings only and ignore the gigantic resposes they receive.:(

Daisy and Delilah

02-17-2009, 01:21 PM

I wonder if Habitat even goes in there? I know how proud they are to get a new trailer or modular home there. At least they were when I was there.
Most of the people I met would love to put in some sweat equity for a new place.

I was watching Extreme Makeover Home Edition last night. You've made another great point, Richard!

Pam

02-17-2009, 01:54 PM

I was watching Extreme Makeover Home Edition last night. You've made another great point, Richard!

Now be careful Terry. Let's not have Richard getting a big head! :p:D

Your comments, Terry, are so well put down and they give great insight into the life there. I agree with you - let's hope that this was done for the right reasons. I have no idea what prompted the TV special on Camden, NJ as Diane certainly did not grow up there. It was a good program in that it pointed up that, no matter what the depressed area, there are always some people there that want to rise above it. Sometimes they just need a little helping hand. Let's hope this will happen in Appalachia.

kokopup

02-17-2009, 02:12 PM

The problems as presented by ABC are not unique. I have seen similar programs on PBS and others. I am just not a fan of the way ABC, 20/20
in particular presents issues of this type.

My best friend growing up moved to Green banks , West Virginia after
we worked together in the Space Program. He was a manager for the Green bank radio telescope observatory. The facility was put there because of its isolation from everything including radio signals. They moved there in the early seventies. During his entire 30 years he was there his wife worked with the locals on many of the issues presented on the show. Her biggest problem was getting their trust. Even when the young people were on board with the programs she was trying to carry out the parents would not cooperate. Outsiders were not trusted and change was resisted. You can try to give help but until they are willing to change nothing can happen. You have to realize how isolated
some of these people are from the rest of the world. Go to the end of the world then climb that mountain and you might be there. We are talking backwoods. They have developed a life style that we can't understand but this is all they have ever known.

My father used to talk about the poverty he was raised in back in the
1900-10 era. He was able to escape this by quiting school and becoming an apprentice Jeweler in Birmingham at 11. There are isolated parts of this country that are stuck in this era and do not know how to escape. Life and lifestyles have not changed in generations. 20/20 is not going to change this. You have to want to escape and a
way to get there. The young boy on 20/20 had the desire but was not
equipped with the knowledge and resources to do so.

These are similar to the problems with escaping the intercity. It is extremely hard to pull yourself up with your boot straps when you don't
have any boots.

Medusa

02-17-2009, 03:49 PM

I wonder if Habitat even goes in there? I know how proud they are to get a new trailer or modular home there. At least they were when I was there.
Most of the people I met would love to put in some sweat equity for a new place.

Why wouldn't they? I would think that the people there would be anxious and excited to help build their own home.

Daisy and Delilah

02-17-2009, 04:31 PM

Why wouldn't they? I would think that the people there would be anxious and excited to help build their own home.

I had to realize that I was there thirty plus years ago. HFH must have gone into those areas by now. I can't help but wonder what survived the lack of work and motivation.

Pam: Thank you. I have such a feeling for that place, even though it's long gone from my life.

kokopup: So true. Gaining trust was a true test of what kind of person you were. I finally got it by looking at life the way they do. It wasn't easy.
The families and it's members are all they have. If you remove one of them, it's as if the other's have lost a limb. They don't function without each other.
I think their ways of thinking can be penetrated but it's going to take alot of time and patience.

I would love to see all of this come to an end in this country but I'll always have a special place in my heart for the people of Appalachia.

Daisy and Delilah

02-17-2009, 04:35 PM

Now be careful Terry. Let's not have Richard getting a big head! :p:D

Laughing out loud, Pam!!!

You're right. I seem to be complimenting Richard all the time. I need to pull in the reins so his head doesn't explode.:D :eek: :D

Hellow

02-17-2009, 04:43 PM

Daisy and Delilah

02-17-2009, 05:25 PM

I live in this area. I see stuff like this all the time. But this show makes us all look like hicks that have absolutely no money, no electricity, no water, and basically make it look like the 1800s. Its not like that. There is barely anyone like how I described anymore, unless they are homeless. Things have gotten more modern around here, if the locals like it or not. They badly need to correct this show.

There have been changes since I lived there. Modern conveniences were available but not necessarily used. I remember it was a big thrill to go to Hardee's for a pork biscuit and a soda. I know it's not quite like that now.

Reggie, can you explain why the show made you feel like you were all stereotyped? Did the disclaimers not clarify the difference in the regions?
I'm just curious to know exactly why so many people of the area feel the way you do.

kokopup

02-17-2009, 05:26 PM

Reggie I agree that Georgia is no longer that way and neither is Alabama. Actually Appalachia in both states is where some of the more affluent live. There are pockets in West Virginia, kentucky, And Tennessee near where they all come together that still live this way. It is not wide spread but it is still there. This is centered where coal mining use to be king and when it moved out or cut back the people stayed on in poverty. 20/20 did not show the region fairly because they made this appear widespread. Appalachia covers a lot of territory that is now very
prosperous.

RICHARD

02-17-2009, 05:35 PM

Laughing out loud, Pam!!!

You're right. I seem to be complimenting Richard all the time. I need to pull in the reins so his head doesn't explode.:D :eek: :D

Lovely,

I can't get out of the room now!:eek::mad:;)

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I watched the Home Makeover show and my 'cynical' side made me stop.

Of the wonderous things we have to offer the 'next gen', why does it all have to revolve around all the latest toys and crap like that?

I wanted my own bedroom with a desk so I could study.
I did want the 8 dollar AM/FM radio so I could listen to music on my own.
I never went to any school functions-prom or dances because I knew the financial restraints my parents had on them. I am not bitter or angry about any of that. They stressed school and go out and earn what you want.

Now we have a social situation where we hand people things that they should have earned or be pushed to earn.

One question I have is regarding the taxation of the people in these areas.

They don't have much, so that leads me to think that since they have such a poor lifestyle, that they must not pay much in taxes-therefore the poverty they endure.

I don't complain about taxes because every year we seem to get less, but isn't it better than what other have? That's the reason I have a problem with the whiners that complain about paying them. I appreciate the sewer line, the trash pickups and the street maintenance. I don't have the kidneys to bounce around a rutted dirt road.

Soooo, I have a problem when people (TV shows) go into a home and completely raze it, then give people more than they need to live-Oh, I like the fact that some couple who have 5 kids at home raise the other 4 kids when a set of parents are killed or give them away.....That makes me have hope for the planet.....But I really think that a 8 bedroom house with internet and HDTV in each room, the swimming pool for the dog and a 50,000 dollar kitchen is way too kind for people that just need 'enough'.

They come home from Disneyland and get the "move that bus" ceremony and we have people going outdoors in 20 degree weather to take a dump?

God, I even want to scream when I think of all the young women who have to take care of their 'monthly needs' is conditions like that. Wow,now my head hurts.

There is plenty of blame to go around and we just have to accept OUR part of it and try to get things moving.

Change?

I hope so.:rolleyes:

Hellow

02-17-2009, 05:44 PM

Soooo, I have a problem when people (TV shows) go into a home and completely raze it, then give people more than they need to live-Oh, I like the fact that some couple who have 5 kids at home raise the other 4 kids when a set of parents are killed or give them away.....That makes me have hope for the planet.....But I really think that a 8 bedroom house with internet and HDTV in each room, the swimming pool for the dog and a 50,000 dollar kitchen is way too kind for people that just need 'enough'.

They come home from Disneyland and get the "move that bus" ceremony and we have people going outdoors in 20 degree weather to take a dump?

Well, it is a good break for people who have had a far harder life than the vast majority of us, including me. I've seen some of the poverty that they described in this show, and it is pretty bad, but rare.

P.S.: Why do you never come on AIM? :p

zippy-kat

02-17-2009, 08:03 PM

My parents and I are from WV. A small "hick" place, if you will. My paternal grandparents owned a farm, sold black angus cattle. My grandmother was a post master and ran a small(!) gas station/post office/general store. My grandfather worked in the coal mines, died of black lung before I was born.

My mom's family had a small farm (they didn't sell anything, ate what they raised). Her Dad was a carpenter/black smith, her mom was a homemaker who tended foster children. The house was built mid 1800s and operated as a hotel from ?-? (I forget the dates). When the state road started building the hwy, they had to tear down the stable/carriage house that boarders "parked" in. LOTS of sentimental value on that land. My grandpa was born in the house and lived there until approximately 3yrs before his death; running water and plumbing were never installed.

Neither family was wealthy but you'd never find a more manicured lawn, inviting house, or welcoming arms. Poor doesn't necessarily mean dirty nor a lack in pride of ownership. It ticks me off the way it's portrayed.

Another thing that kinda ticks me off is when people try to equate poor with high crime. I can't recall the radio show (it's been years now) but someone brought up that the poorest community (at the time) was located in WV (I don't remember the county name). In this county, there was only ONE case of person-shooting/killing-person and that was actually ruled a hunting accident.

---
We moved out of state when I was 2 (my dad chose work over welfare). This was in the early 80s. The neighboring county was holding Grand Dragon elections.

My parents have friends that still work in the mines. They knew people *in* the 2006 Sago mine collapse. (They also know people who worked at Sago during the collapse that now work at a different mine.)

So, yes, I know these places exist. I've seen it and lived it (although the only thing I remember is from vacations), but don't necessarily agree/understand it. Tradition is a comfort but why wouldn't you continually try to better yourself FOR yourself, and if not for yourself then for the sake of your family.

Pam

02-21-2009, 06:50 AM

There was a small update on Appalachia last night. Did anyone see it? I watched the entire 20/20 (OK I admit I was dozing off a little...:p ) but they did do a bit of a follow-up right at the end of the program. The boy who plays football is back in college, Angel is getting dentures and lots of other good things and donations have been sent in by viewers. I imagine there will be more following up in the months ahead. I hope this is a turning point for the whole community.

Medusa

02-21-2009, 07:07 AM

I hope this is a turning point for the whole community.

One can only hope. IMO, though, it's going to take more than charity to get this community on its feet. It's going to take education and access to assistance for that education and w/building programs, etc.

Daisy and Delilah

02-21-2009, 09:12 AM

Thanks Pam. I'm so glad to hear that. I was going to watch 20/20 but I got busy and didn't. It makes me so happy to know that the show let everybody know what was going on there.

I really think the huge response and the intervention from ABC might shake up awarenesss about the situation in Appalachia. Maybe things will continue to improve from that alone.:)

Marigold2

02-21-2009, 01:14 PM

I saw the update as well. The young man who shoved coal should practice birth control. With one child and another on the way they are making themselves poor. If they had no children the wife could work and they wouldn't have these enomous child care costs they all of us have things llike diapers and formula etc etc.
Don't see why a young couple with no children but with a half way decent car can't pick up and leave, drive 100 or 500 miles away were there are jobs. Even McDonald's which pays $7.00 an hour to start is not bad if you have two people working that is $14.00 an hour or $560.00 a week combined before taxes, and then you could get a second job. All of my kids have second jobs. If before taxes you bring home say $700.00 a week you can afford a small one bedroom apartment in many cities or small towns. You can buy furniture at Goodwill to start or go to garage sales. Maybe start to take one class a semester at college. It is possible as long as you stop having kids. God helps those that help themselves. Helping oneself to 5 kids before you are 21 is not what he meant.
As far as the young football player is concerned I could not be happier for him. He is intelligent and hardworking and refuses to continue to be a victim. People gladly help those that help themselves, he is a hero.

cassiesmom

02-24-2009, 10:13 AM

I didn't see it; does anyone know if it will be on again? Maybe it is on the ABC News site, I will look later.

Daisy and Delilah

02-24-2009, 12:09 PM

I didn't see it; does anyone know if it will be on again? Maybe it is on the ABC News site, I will look later.

Elyse, I think they're still running it on their website.:)

K9soul

02-24-2009, 12:27 PM

Don't see why a young couple with no children but with a half way decent car can't pick up and leave, drive 100 or 500 miles away were there are jobs.

It's always easy when on the outside looking in to say what people should do to improve their lives. Even with family and friends, it's easy to get caught up in looking at how they live and how they could improve on things. It just may not be so easy and cut and dry as it seems.

Daisy and Delilah

02-24-2009, 01:12 PM

It's always easy when on the outside looking in to say what people should do to improve their lives. Even with family and friends, it's easy to get caught up in looking at how they live and how they could improve on things. It just may not be so easy and cut and dry as it seems.

Well said, as always, Jess.

As I've said before, I was once a person that believed that all things were easy until I met these people.
The bond between family members is like no other. These bonds are made not to be broken, in their eyes. The young people would rather live this way and suffer than to "betray" their family.
Many of these people are ill for one reason or another. Alot of them can't get to a doctor so their conditions go unattended to most of the time. Alot of times, it's too late. For a young person to leave a sick family member is basically unheard of in alot of situations.

The younger people live strictly by what's been taught to them by their elders. The tremendous respect for them prevents the children from abandoning their parents/grandparents. This is the way they live and it's the only life they know. They'll live like this and so will some of their offspring. Other children may hear of a different way of life and make a break for another way.

For example: Different cultures require certain things of their young people. Some things they are allowed to do and some things they aren't. Mostly unwritten laws but known by all of them. These Appalachian people are, by and large, another culture living within the United States.

It's not just the family bonds that control their destiny. They live with alot of fear of change and the unknown.

I would love to see them improve their way of life. I think most people would. However, it's just not that easy for some of them.:(

Medusa

02-24-2009, 01:22 PM

It's always easy when on the outside looking in to say what people should do to improve their lives. Even with family and friends, it's easy to get caught up in looking at how they live and how they could improve on things. It just may not be so easy and cut and dry as it seems.

Absolutely! It's been my experience that the people who are quickest to judge are the ones who should take a look at their own lives. I also feel that depression and the sense of being overwhelmed probably plays a large role in how quickly they begin to make changes. The high school football player is a prime example. He has to be self motivating and it got him so far and then he had no support system which caused him to give up. Fortunately that has changed for him but not everyone is so lucky. So many of us are just plain spoiled and we forget or never even knew what it's like to truly struggle. Can you imagine having to walk 8 miles each way in the rain to get a GED, then when you finally get back home, you probably don't have enough food to eat? I've lived in conditions not much better than that, so I can say from experience that unless someone w/vision, insight, determination, patience and, yes, money, comes in and is willing to take the time to teach and work right alongside these people, chances are that things will never change for them. Sad but true.

Daisy and Delilah

02-24-2009, 04:39 PM

So true, Mary. You make some great points.

I think we are super spoiled and have no idea what it's like to have to struggle for aything. We get irritated if the tv cable goes out, irritated to walk to the refrigerator sometimes, irritated if we have to walk too far to get into a store, irritated if we have to wash our new car, irritated if we have to pay for something that we could be without all together, etc., etc.

We just don't know what things are like until we've walked in the shoes of other people.

Marigold2

02-24-2009, 09:47 PM

Sorry guys but I beg to differ. I don't understand these people and frankly have very little pity for their self-made problems.
Does my family know suffering oh yes, oh yes we do? Especially my mom who went to concentation camp at 17. She had 10 brothers and sisters and no one lived but her. Talk about suffering. What did we do on our 18th birthday? Hopefully not watch our family suffer and die as my mom did. Both my parents entire families were in the war. My dad's house was bombed in the middle of the night, they lived in a barn for a while in the middle of winter and considered themselves lucky.
My parents wanted something better for the kids, so did my grandparents.
Yes my dad's parent's, and three aunts all lived in one house when they came over from Germany but all learned to read and write English, all worked outside of the home, no one took public assistance. All four bought their own homes and had their own families.
No one stopped speaking German, we just added English. No one lost the tradions or respect of the old courtry.
And it wasn't just my family it was millions of immigrants from all corners of the world, who left everything they knew and loved. They had to change, learn a new tongue, new skills, street signs, food, culture, tradions and they did all after watching their families being killed. They just did it.
And they always wanted better for their kids, always prayed and hoped and pushed their kids to do better, live better, be happy, learn, grow, go to school for most never had a chance with the war bombing their homes and schools.
Walking 8 miles to get a GED try walking 8 miles in a city blown to peices and burning, no food no water and the stench of the dead everywhere. That is WW11 was. If you don't believe me ask some man who served overseas in that time.
If these people loved their kids, they would want their lives to be better then their own. they would encourage their children to get an education and not hold them back for their own selfess reasons. Whom amoung us does not want something better for their child? Whom amoung us does not want the respect of our child? This is 2009 not 1309. They might not have food but I bet they have TV for the most part and plenty of Camel Lights and drugs. Sorry no pity here. They are horrible mothers.
My family came from so much worst I understand the suffering of the innocent. These people brought much of this upon themselves and when they can stop being selfess and put their children first then maybe I will want to help them. And yes I know I sound like a B&^%%
but these children deserve better. It makes me angry to see a selfess mother bred likea dog and not care for her children, sorry to all the dogs in advance. I just want to shake some sense into these woman and ask them what the hell they think they are doing to their child.

caseysmom

02-24-2009, 11:52 PM

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”
quote - Paulo Coelho

Medusa

02-25-2009, 12:37 PM

Walking 8 miles to get a GED try walking 8 miles in a city blown to peices and burning, no food no water and the stench of the dead everywhere. That is WW11 was.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Each generation has done what it needed to do to survive. Neither circumstance is desirable. The woman who walks 8 miles each way to get her GED deserves credit, someone to pat her on the back and say "Atta girl!". She needs encouragement so that she won't give up and stay in those conditions. She's at least trying, she's making an effort and, hopefully, once she gets her GED, she'll get a decent job so that she can improve her living conditions. She's trying to help herself and thus help her kids, as you say they must do and I don't disagree. If her kids see her placing such a high value on education that she's willing to brave the elements and make that long trip on foot each day, chances are that they'll value an education, too, and will follow in her footsteps to better their own lives. She is not a horrible mother; she's a mother who has no outside help, no examples to emulate, a mother who is trying her best. She isn't abandoning her children; she's setting an example for them. Yes, she smokes. Yes, she probably has a TV. Who would begrudge her those simple pleasures, regardless of our stand on smoking and the resultant health issues? I hope and pray that she doesn't lose hope, that she makes it and proves the naysayers wrong.

K9soul

02-25-2009, 12:43 PM

Marigold, you must be one of those people who feel depression and despair are a person's choice and they just need to snap out of it. There's really nothing that can be said to people who feel that way. Of course people who have conquered all adversity and risen above to make a new life should be admired and are an inspiration. But do we really know what makes the difference between someone who is able to do that and someone who isn't? Is it an increased mental fortitude, increased support from some place? Every life is different, every mind different. Everyone's threshold is different. You seem convinced it's a matter of pure selfish and lazy versus people who want to help themselves. The world is not so very black and white. You seemed to like the quote 'God helps those who help themselves." What about "Judge not lest ye be judged?"

Daisy and Delilah

02-25-2009, 01:18 PM

I have tried to find the right words to answer your post, Marigold. I am preceded here by some of our most eloquent speakers on this board. I will try to put my thoughts down and hope it makes sense.

I think you base alot of your thoughts on what was portrayed in the Diane Sawyer special only. You have to realize, that show didn't accurately describe every person in Appalachia or in other poverty stricken areas. The ones I know are God fearing, hard working, clean, proud, and, honest people who love their children and their families. A love that is strong and controls their every move. I would hate to hear someone tell my former MIL, and, still my friend, that she 's a horrible mother. That is so harsh. How can you say these women are horrible mothers? How can you say they don't love their children? You don't know these people. You've proven that by what you said. That dear woman is one of the finest people I have ever met. She opened her arms to me and gave me food and shelter when I needed it. At 82 years old, her health is failing but she still represents one of the strongest human beings on this earth. I love and respect her with all my heart.

I felt the people depicted in the special were individuals that were completely unique. They actually allowed themselves to be interviewed and filmed for a television show!! This is not everybody there so we can't base all our thoughts on what we saw on tv.

In all respect for you and your family, their hardship was great. The overcame adversity and made a better life for themselves. However, as Mary said, you are comparing apples to oranges. Your family and the Appalachian people are not the same.

Some of those mountain people stay in the mountains. They don't leave the area. Many of them don't drive. They grow their food or raise their food in livestock. In other words, they are genuinely unaware of another type of life being available. Some of them are like hermits. They know nothing else. But, again, this doensn't describe all of the Appalachian people.

As far as the smoking goes, I saw many people smoking but you better believe they put food on the table. They aren't smoking and starving their children. Their families are number one. Always. What's wrong with having a television? I don't think there are many homes in the country that don't have some kind of a television. It is the only link to the outside that some of them have. If the tv is on, they watch it as a family. The drugs: as I said in another post, I was unaware of this problem when I was there. The doctors are prescribing the drugs for these people. All these people know is that the drugs make them feel better so they take them. It seems to have turned into abuse in some people. But, I'm sure not every person in Appalachia is abusing drugs either.

You are grouping all people as being sterotypical druggies, drunks, smokers, bad parents, etc. You just can't do that. You do sound bitter, I have to say. I'm sorry your family had such a struggle. Unfortunately, it just isn't fair to group the two situations together. I get upset reading the comments that were made about this tv show. I hope all of you(meaning you and those that commented on ABC's website) can realize that you can't judge these people on what you think you know.

Marigold2

02-25-2009, 11:26 PM

I understand where all of you are coming from I do. I know I sound harsh and by NO means want anyone to think that I for one second believe that all people are like that. My respect to all who try to improve their life.
As for depression, I have a two children on medication for depression. One I gave birth to and one I didn't. I know how hard it is to live with a depressed person on a daily basis. You can take you meds and make bad choices, or take your meds and make good ones. Every person has demons, problems of one sort or another and we all need to step up to the plate and make the best of each day, it's not easy but it's the only sane thing to do. Feeling sorry for oneself helps no one. Helping others is a great way to beat depression especially helping our fur children.
By stating that they have a TV they see and hear the latest news, weather, spots, gossip, policts etc. CNN, Animal Planet, NASA, History, Jay Leno, Baseball etc..some would have to have cable especially in those way out places otherwise they would no get reception. It's not as if they have never seen a car, a phone, a TV. This is America and education is free, most I would hope have been to elementary school and beyond.
In fact they can get just about everything for free.
Medicaid pays for their eye care, health, dental. Food stamps pay for food. Hud of other such agencies pay for low cost or free housing. They would get free monies for college or trade school, lunches would be free for the small kids. The government pays for their children be given all shots, healthcare, therapy etc. Therapy is free for the adults. Most if not all medicians are free. Their utilities will also be picked up partly by the government.
They recieve no bill for having one or 10 kids if on Medicaid.
The library is free to all, they offer classes.
Hospitals have classes free.
Transportion is also provided in some areas by the hospital for appointments.. Lets see what other free-be have I forgotten?:rolleyes::rolleyes:
But I am sure you get my point. There is help out there. But they have to want it, they have to ask if not for themselves but for their children so their lives can be better. No one should live in proverty. I can see one generation being poor, but not the second or the third. Grandchildren should not be as uneducated as the grandparents. Each and every generation should improve on the last. Every parent I have ever met wants their child to have it better then they did. To not learn and grow and improve is unexcepable in America and frankly its a slap in the face to all the people who fought for this country to make it better. Every soldier, every immigrant who came here and fought for jobs and a better living condition for their children. They are all heros and I am sure some suffered from depression but the job had to get done and they did it. I don't know any man from that time who laid in bed all day and felt sorry for himself or any woman. They were out there working and making America a great land.
Mary you spoke about your hard working dad. I hear the pride in your words. You and your brothers and sisters are better educated they he, and perhaps you son is more then you. It's how it should be. Your dad worked hard for you, and these people need to do the same.
It's time we stopped making excuses for people and expect them to pull their own weight. The less we demand of them the less they will do.
They are adults, act like it.

Pam

02-26-2009, 06:03 AM

I am just speechless after reading Marigold's reply. :(

caseysmom

02-26-2009, 08:01 AM

I am just speechless after reading Marigold's reply. :(

I think that shock is the intent so I don't put much weight on it.

kokopup

02-26-2009, 08:06 AM

Marigold, You do not have a clue. You are totally out of touch with reality.:confused: All of the services you speak of are not even available in an urban setting, much less the most remote mountain areas where these people live. I really understand why your kids would be on antidepressants. You are in a world of your own. :(:(

Cataholic

02-26-2009, 08:45 AM

Marigold,
You do not know of which you speak. I have said it before, and thought it many, many times concerning your posts. It bears repeating here. Your posts are so full of anger and bitterness, and so lacking of the characteristics like sympathy and empathy. I wonder what went so horribly wrong in your 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' upbringing that it left you so inhumane towards others. It is nearly as if you are afraid to show compassion towards others lest it make you less of a person, or somehow take away from the reality of your parents and grandparents. It is just so sad to read your posts.

Medusa

02-26-2009, 09:40 AM

I really understand why your kids would be on antidepressants. You are in a world of your own. :(:(

Not nice. Or fair either. Marigold shared an intimate part of her life by revealing this in the thread. We can make our points w/out insult; otherwise it's a slippery slope from discussion into argument and then nobody learns anything because we just go back and forth defending our positions.

joycenalex

02-26-2009, 10:00 AM

this is my 3rd attempt at responding to this thread....it's a very complex and complicated issue that makes an easy response so hard to articulate.....
in the united states, except for those brought here by force into slavery, we, as a people are the descendants of immigrants. for many many reasons, our ancestors left their homelands in search of better...better education, better land, bettering for themselves, better for their mother and kids. i cannot totally disagree with marigold here. i know and understand leaving your home and kin is very hard, but the choice being made, generation after generation to remain in a situation that cannot support your family, in that specific geographic location is not good for that specific family nor society as a whole.
(QUOTE)....There is help out there. But they have to want it, they have to ask if not for themselves but for their children so their lives can be better. No one should live in poverty. I can see one generation being poor, but not the second or the third. Grandchildren should not be as uneducated as the grandparents. Each and every generation should improve on the last. (END QUOTE). there is help, it might not be easy to get to, it might not to be abundant help, but there are social services and ways to break the poverty cycle. education and birth control are first steps in ending the cycle of multi generational poverty both in appalachia and the inner cities.
i am not in any way or form discounting family ties, but some of those ties are nooses on the neck of the future generations. i know i'll be flamed for this, but i will be thinking on this topic and how to change the awfulness of it for my sisters and brothers locked into this hopelessness for a long time. kindly and thoughtfully joyce

kokopup

02-26-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopup View Post

I really understand why your kids would be on antidepressants. You are in a world of your own.

I apologize for this insensitive statement. It was not called for.

caseysmom

02-26-2009, 10:22 AM

kokopup, I have never found any of your posts offensive at all. I think like me her post angered you and you said it how you saw it. I have seen her blast whole ethnic groups with a wide sweep of her judgemental nonsense.

Edwina's Secretary

02-26-2009, 10:48 AM

Daisy and Delilah

02-26-2009, 12:10 PM

Marigold, I honestly get where you're coming from too. I know what you're saying. I also have strong beliefs that govern how people need to take charge of their lives. I hope that the majority of the people of Appalachia have come out of the mountains and tried to get help for a better life for their families. I would love to see nothing more than those people doing just that. In this day and age, perhaps enough of them have been curious to the ways of modern technology.
However, I'm afraid there is still a large majority that hasn't done this. Why? The grandparents taught one way and the next generation followed, so on and so on. We can't force these people to live differently. It has to be their choice.

When I lived there, there was no tv cable available in the remote mountain areas. I can't even imagine what it would be like to run cable all the way up one of those mountains. It's practically impossible so no one does it. We got three major channels on the tv and that was it. The picture was almost unrecognizable. There might be other alternatives available today.

As I said before, my former FIL worked in the coal mines to support his family. He owed his soul to the company store when he died. He got a black lung settlement that helped pay bills to an extent. Black lung killed him. Those people got nothing free. The only government assistance they got was for their handicapped son that eventually died while I was there.
You're saying that everyone gets everything free and they don't. You can't group these people all together like you're doing.

I know I've said enough already but I feel the need to defend these fine people. This is just one family. All of the Appalachians are not like this but many of them that I know there now, are exactly like this.

Lastly, I just think we should have compassion for everyone that needs it. I've never said I agree with what goes on there. I would love to see change come about. It's going to take alot to achieve this but maybe more fortunate people can get the ball rolling. Maybe we can awaken some of the people and make them aware of what is available to them. I'll hope and pray that we see that in my lifetime.

Daisy and Delilah

02-26-2009, 12:16 PM

Joyce: It is very hard to articulate feelings on this issue. That's exactly what I was trying to say. There's no reason to flame you for what you said.

The family ties are nooses around the necks of future generations. Sad but true. I wish there was an easy way to get them to change but I don't see it in some cases.:(

Daisy and Delilah

02-26-2009, 12:23 PM

Devil's advocate for a moment....

I have not posted any opinion in this thread because I cannot sort out my thoughts (and I did watch the program...)

But reading it I am left to wonder...I see LOTS of judging going on in the thread about the Octomom. (I have been one judging...truth in advertising:D)

Is it okay to judge her and not the people in this program? What makes the difference?

I am definitely guilty for judging Octomom. Personally, I think I am angered at the fact that she seems to have an ulterior motive in what she's done. Of course, this doesn't make it okay for me to judge her at all.

I can't compare the two situations either. Octomom and Appalachia are apples and oranges.

pomtzu

02-26-2009, 01:06 PM

I am definitely guilty for judging Octomom. Personally, I think I am angered at the fact that she seems to have an ulterior motive in what she's done. Of course, this doesn't make it okay for me to judge her at all.

I can't compare the two situations either. Octomom and Appalachia are apples and oranges.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean I am disagreeing with anyone else here. Everyone has a right to an opinion - a right to their own beliefs in each matter - and it doesn't necessarily make either one right or wrong. However, Octomom has single-handedly brought despair to herself and all of her children, whereas the people of Appalachia have had it handed down to them from previous generations, and not by their own personal recklessness. :(

Marigold2

02-26-2009, 01:48 PM

That was very unkind. To make a remark about one's children being depressed......... That is about as low as anyone can get. My child was born with depression and stuggles everyday with it and we the family do as well.

Marigold, You do not have a clue. You are totally out of touch with reality.:confused: All of the services you speak of are not even available in an urban setting, much less the most remote mountain areas where these people live. I really understand why your kids would be on antidepressants. You are in a world of your own. :(:(

K9soul

02-26-2009, 02:00 PM

Kokopup apologized for her remark, and I think she was right to. But it's a bit ironic to read the outrage in your reply after extremely harsh and insensitive posts I have seen you make towards other people.

Marigold2

02-26-2009, 02:06 PM

Back to social services for this is a concern. Aren't these services health, education, Medicaid, etc dictated by the state? Did any of these people go to elemantary school? Did they have a school principal or teacher to give the child and parents a helping hand as to what and where these programs are? I can see this being a problem in 1829 but not 2009. Aren't schools responsible for attendence? Or police for that matter if a child doesn't show up for class? Wouldn't a teacher ask about that child? Notice the child is hungry? Isn't there a free lunch program for these kids? That is state mandated I believe. Aren't their births recorded? School records recorded? Yes some will fall through the cracks but most should not. Most of these kids look like they have been to school and if they have they are eligible for social services. Teachers, pastors, social workers these all need to help and get involved and last, you can lead a horse to water but after that he is on his own. These are questions that should be asked and answers sought, not just pushed under the rug. What about the mayor, the governor, the chief of police, the church leaders do they not get involved or are they just overwelmed?
And no I am not bitter, I am practical. Each generation should improve on the last, otherwise we would all be living in caves. After all the Eyptains had flusing toliets 5 thousand years ago.

Marigold2

02-26-2009, 02:11 PM

Well it was nice of her to apologize(thank you) but it was still a crappy remark and it was a direct hit against my kids and if there is one thing that I will defend and fight for is my kids, I am a lioness when it comes to them. They are not here to speak up for themselves so I will, it's what a mom does.
Kokopup apologized for her remark, and I think she was right to. But it's a bit ironic to read the outrage in your reply after extremely harsh and insensitive posts I have seen you make towards other people.

pomtzu

02-26-2009, 02:28 PM

K9soul

02-26-2009, 02:29 PM

I understand your defense of them and I would feel the same; I just wish you could extend some of that empathy that you have for your kids and those close to you to others around you, too. I'm sure your child who suffers from depression has had some major trials and probably has been judged by other people.

You've implied these people are just lazy or simply don't want 'better' for their children enough to turn things around based off what you saw on a television show. It's no more right than someone making statements about your child's depression and the reasons for it. At least that is how I see it.

K9soul

02-26-2009, 02:30 PM

"She" is a "he"!. :D

Sorry about that Koko ;).

kokopup

02-26-2009, 02:32 PM

The apology was made to you Marigold not to your kids. The comment I made was never directed at them in the first place.

Although kokopup is a female dog the person writing these post is Male.
Maybe I need to change my handle to "Kokopup' dad"

Daisy and Delilah

02-26-2009, 04:45 PM