Westminster 2009

[IRescue452]

Thought I'd open up the discussion for the show.

I love the smooth fox terrier. Our favorites never win. I didn't care for the standard poodle. I didn't think it was in good body condition at all. Like the dog never got exercise. I've seen more muscle in a chicken leg. I think it won because the judge had froofroo covering her eyes.

I definately think every dog in this show is a definate improvement in show standard than the nation dog show a week or two ago. Not that show standard is always a good thing and I know many of these dogs attended both shows, but I'm much more impressed watching this show.

I picked up a used copy of the Westminster yearbook 1994. I had no idea they published a book every year with a stacked photo and stats of each breed winner. Love it. I'd like to get a recent edition to compare how the breeds have changed over a decade and a half.

[cassiesmom]

i thought of Pam and Bella and Ripley, Katelf and Bodea 100% when I saw the poodle! :love:

[Seravieve]

I just finished watching the rerun of Westminster on USA. I too didnt care for the standard poodle. I will admit that I dont care too much for poodles in general, but I definitely didnt think the one that won was a good example of the breed. I thought it was ridiculous looking when it was running, with its head all bent back and eyes all wide.

I got excited for a minute when the bull terrier was pulled out, but that didnt last long. None of the breeds that I root for are ever chosen, except for the Puli! I think those dogs are just beautiful.

Now hopefully I can remember to catch the second half. =)

[Grace]

I love this show. I didn't have any specific favorites the first night - none of them jumped out at me like Uno did last year. Will see what happens tonight.

[IRescue452]

Yeah the poodle was just too stringy for me. I can appreciate them when they look well conditioned. I secretely hope it doesn't win. I'm rooting for the puli so far.

I totally missed my chance to get a look at the deerhound, was it the same one that took the group in nationals?

I also loved the white bull terrier. I was disappointed that he pulled out a good diverse group and then went with terriers that all have a relitively similar look (coat, size, build).

I can't wait to see the sporting. Opposing what somebody mentioned in another thread, I don't like the American type labrador. I think they look like something a byb turned out and not carefully planned at that. They're too houndish and would probably be better suited for companions or dry land hunters. Give me the shorter powerhouse version thank you.

[pomtzu]

I had a hard time staying awake last night, but the little Scottish Terrier caught my eye. That was one spunky little pup!

[kfitzp1]

I gotta say the Terriers are cute but how many are there? I had to fast foreward a little bit to get throuh em. How "terrier"able of me lol. I love the ginger coloered one, like the color of an irish setter, i forget what kind of Terrier it was called. I have an australian heeler so I am partial but haven't watched it all yet.


Kelley and Valentine( still no camera for picture or sig, sigh,

[pomtzu]

I gotta say the Terriers are cute but how many are there? I had to fast foreward a little bit to get throuh em. How "terrier"able of me lol. I love the ginger coloered one, like the color of an irish setter,

You're right - there are a lot of terriers - and several ginger colored ones too. You might be thinking of the Norfolk Terrier.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I will be watching tonight. The Toy group is on tonight. I'm always sad when the Chis don't get picked. If one was ever chosen, you all could hear me cheering from Florida.:) I just love to see all the dogs but I get crazy over the Chis.

[lute]

The only dog I don't understand winning is the herding group winner. I've seen that Puli in person and he's, in my opinion, not that nice. Plus, they dye the dog's coat. I was kind of bummed about the Ridgeback not getting placed. Not because I'm a huge fan of the breed, but BOY THAT DOG COULD MOVE!!!!!

Can't wait for tonight!!!

[Seravieve]

The only dog I don't understand winning is the herding group winner. I've seen that Puli in person and he's, in my opinion, not that nice. Plus, they dye the dog's coat. I was kind of bummed about the Ridgeback not getting placed. Not because I'm a huge fan of the breed, but BOY THAT DOG COULD MOVE!!!!!

Can't wait for tonight!!!

They dye the dog?!?! Oh geez. I take back my comment then. I really like the Puli breed but that seems like cheating.

[boomersooner]

I was wondering about the dye thing, too....when they were showing the dogs backstage, they kept showing this cute little beagle, but it looked like his handler was putting brown dye around his face....maybe it was something else, but I don't know.....My little dalmatian almost never gets chosen, either...a few years back, there was one that went pretty far, but not the case lately. We'll see the sporting tonight....Diamond Jim the springer won a few years ago...we'll see....I love them all....

[Alysser]

I watched it all last night even though I was Dead tired. The Deerhound won the hound group, I was also rooting for the Ridgeback, he was one of the most beautiful dogs I've ever seen. I thought the Wolfhound deserved 2nd place, he looked AMAZING, but man I think that was the biggest dog I've ever seen.

Who won the Terrier? I also wanted to ask why some of the terriers were disqualified right there in the show ring? I didn't get that.

I can't believe they are even allowed to dye the dog! That's really unfair to the other breeds, I don't even like pulis that much.

Uno was there last night, he was all excited when people were cheering for him LOL he was adorable he did deserve that win!

[cali]

they are NOT allowed to die or chalk the dogs, everyone just kind of looks past it. its chalk that was being put on the beagle BTW. i wish the Dalmation did better, it was a gorgous dog, first truly good Dal in a long time. I was upset that Lecks sister was absent, she was entered and the only Toller absent, I was like "booo" lol, Tyson won though, he is a nice dog.all the barbie collies were gross as usual. I was upset about the GSD..I was so impressed with the picture that I was expecting a decent dog, then when I saw her on TV.. oh my, she was nervous, her rear was wobbling when she tried to stack, and the handler dragged the poor thing off her feet on the down and back!

[scrain2329]

The the Airedale was DQ'ed right? The judge from the terrier group knew him and worked with him previously and was disqualified due to conflict of interest. I didnt know anybody else was...

I loved the irish wolfhound. So beautiful.. so BIG!
I am so excited for sporting:eek:!!!

[boomersooner]

Thanks for answering the question about he chalk!! Never thought of that.....no, and that doesn't seem fair......I thought the ridgeback was pretty, too.....Our dog trainer had one named JJ, and he was always so bored, demonstrating what had to be taught, etc....that is until Cassie came...he loved Cassie!! Even his owner was laughing at him...he would get so excited when she came to class....he even wet on her back!! I guess he was "marking" his territory....his owner was mortified! HA....back to the topic....I loved the bloodhound and the wolf hound, too.....I also love black and tan coonhounds...don't know why, met one once, and he was soooo friendly.

[Alysser]

The the Airedale was DQ'ed right? The judge from the terrier group knew him and worked with him previously and was disqualified due to conflict of interest. I didnt know anybody else was...

I loved the irish wolfhound. So beautiful.. so BIG!
I am so excited for sporting:eek:!!!


But he can't just DQ a dog for it's owner can he? I mean he can't just put DQ a dog for his personal conflicts with it's handler.

[Alysser]

Thanks for answering the question about he chalk!! Never thought of that.....no, and that doesn't seem fair......I thought the ridgeback was pretty, too.....Our dog trainer had one named JJ, and he was always so bored, demonstrating what had to be taught, etc....that is until Cassie came...he loved Cassie!! Even his owner was laughing at him...he would get so excited when she came to class....he even wet on her back!! I guess he was "marking" his territory....his owner was mortified! HA....back to the topic....I loved the bloodhound and the wolf hound, too.....I also love black and tan coonhounds...don't know why, met one once, and he was soooo friendly.

Aww that's so cute. :D

Oh that's another dog I forgot about, I'm not a fan of those dogs at all but he was downright GORGEOUS!!

[scrain2329]

But he can't just DQ a dog for it's owner can he? I mean he can't just put DQ a dog for his personal conflicts with it's handler.

because he is the handler, he is showing the dog, he is responsible. He can DQ the dog because if he has a friendship with the handler, it will be unfair to the other dogs. If somebody else was showing it wouldn't matter, the dog wouldn't be out. They were saying that they knew the chances and went anyways, just being there was enough for them; to qualify. I can understand. They put the faith, money, and attention into one handler, to switch could make the dog nervous and ruin the chances anyways.

At my shows for horses, if there is any relation to a judge by friendship, family, or business matter you can not show under the judge and will be excused. Same ruling for dog shows it seems.
Makes sense I guess but a bummer for the owners!

[scrain2329]

http://www.doggeddogdom.com/news/?tag=disqualification
found this, which was interesting about the disqualified dogs

[Grace]

But he can't just DQ a dog for it's owner can he? I mean he can't just put DQ a dog for his personal conflicts with it's handler.

It was my impression that the judge of that group had worked with the handlers previously. There was more than one disqualified last night.

I figured it was known in advance that it would happen. Otherwise an owner could raise a stink that s/he wasn't notified about it.

[Giselle]

Shayna, I really liked the GSD and I watched the breed judging with scrutiny. The GSD didn't wobble for me. Granted, it was cow hocked when it free stacked, but due to its standard, even the most ideal GSD will have a slight cowhock upon freestacking. Whether that's right or wrong is pretty subjective, but I've definitely seen wobblers and that GSD wasn't a wobbler to me. At least, that's what I could pull from the breed judging video.

Also, in breed judging, I would argue that the winning GSD was one of the more confident ones. When the judge asked each individual GSD to approach him, the winner approached him and actually sidled up to him versus the second GSD (the darker one) who approached him with caution and wariness. So, maybe the group judging was a bad representative and maybe undeserved for the GSD. I will say that I thought the GSD's reach could improve, but it I'm very very glad that they chose a moderate dog for once.

[cassiesmom]

Can someone answer a question about the German shepherd for me? (Okay, two - is it properly called a German shepherd dog, or a German shepherd?) I don't know anything about dog anatomy, but it looked to me when viewed from the side that the dog's hips weren't level with his shoulders. Like his back legs were shorter than his front legs? Is that how the dog is supposed to look? I also thought it was cute when the Puli jumped up off the floor with all four feet and the audience laughed. I just like to see all the different breeds, especially the breeds represented by PT dogs! Little ones, big ones, fluffy ones, sleek ones, hunters and herders and everything else dogs do.

[Ginger's Mom]

Shayna, Devon, Irescue I think you may all be on the west coast, but they just showed the Toller a little while ago. His name is Tyson, and I was wondering what you ladies thought of him? I thought he was gorgeous (I really like the more solid Tollers, like him), but I don't really have the experience with the breed that you ladies do. So what did you think of him? Wah, I want one, lol.

[cali]

Tyson is a nice dog, I havent seen him move though, I cant see the online videos and I missed the Retrievers on TV. I used to like Maverick too till I saw him move, it was awful, completly ruined him for me lol.

Giselle, keep in mind that I could care less about show standards, when I look at dogs, I look at general soundness as compared to what the breed as a WORKING dog should be built. I dont know the show standards and I dont give a rats behind whats "correct" per a show standard. I was impressed by the picture, but seeing the dog attempt to move and stack ruined it completly. Ladybug actually has a physicial problem with her hind end, and that GSDs rear was clearly weaker then ladybugs.

[Giselle]

I didn't see a weak rear, per se. I saw a GSD rear, which, by the very nature of its build, will seem weaker than, say, a Weim's. I saw a slight cowhock, which is inevitable because of the angulation of the rear. Due to the very nature of the GSD standard, I don't think it's possible to have an extremely strong rear when in freestack, unless the rear angulations change:
http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/12_Type_Comparison/Images/THMGSD%20A2.JPG

Cassiesmom, yes, the GSD's rear is supposed to be extremely well angulated and held lower than the front via the slightly sloping back, which gives it that distinctive flying look.

[Alysser]

STUMP the SUSSEX Spaniel just won the 2009 Westminster Dog Show!

All the dogs looked fabulous, I was rooting for the Giant Schnauzer and Stump was my second favorite in the last line-up. Congratulations STUMP!! :D

[Grace]

Stump is totally adorable!! At the age of 10, he is the oldest dog ever to win Westminster. He was retired for 5 years. He was terribly ill back in 2004 - spent 19 days in the Vet hospital at Texas A&M.

[lute]

CONGRATS STUMP!!! Very nice dog! I was personally rooting for the Brussels as I have always liked Lincoln. I know the handler too. They make a wonderful team. Him nd his wife actually own and breed Aussies.

Did anyone else see the Scottie pee while going out for BIS? Ya know the handler was super embarrassed!:o

As for the two conflict of interest dogs. I think the handlers knew they were to be pardoned. Just to have the dogs in the ring for that short amount of time is a pleasure. I'm glad the judge was honest. I know some judges act like they don't know the handler and use this as leverage. Not at all fair to others in the ring.

Cali is correct. You are actually not suppose to dye or chalk your dogs. Although, a great deal of people do chalk their dogs. Dying is much more frowned upon. I've even chalked dogs. Mostly legs and feet. In both Sibes and Aussies. You can't cover anything other than minor kennel stains with chalk. Dying can dramatically change your dog.

[bckrazy]

I loved that Cardi, to death... and I was actually on a Telltail waiting list, at one point. She was robbed. ;)

[IRescue452]

I'm always extremely critical of the newly ruined "AKC" toller versus the original package.

Tyson has good points and bad.

Good: His body is well proportioned. Tollers should only be as long as they are tall. When they get too long they look like red border collies.

Bad: His head is too domed. His ears are just not right. His tail is too short. He at least looks 15-20 pounds bigger than he should be. Stop too prominant. Muzzle too short. Coat looks like it was shaved.

Honestly, if you set me in a room full of AKC tollers and asked me to judge their good and bad points, I'd walk out. The AKC is turning them into red and white golden retrievers.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

I'm always extremely critical of the newly ruined "AKC" toller versus the original package.

Tyson has good points and bad.

Good: His body is well proportioned. Tollers should only be as long as they are tall. When they get too long they look like red border collies.

Bad: His head is too domed. His ears are just not right. His tail is too short. He at least looks 15-20 pounds bigger than he should be. Stop too prominant. Muzzle too short. Coat looks like it was shaved.

Honestly, if you set me in a room full of AKC tollers and asked me to judge their good and bad points, I'd walk out. The AKC is turning them into red and white golden retrievers.

Sure, he's not perfect -- but what dog is? AKC hasn't ruined them that badly. They've only been recognized for 6 years, and IMO, haven't changed that much. In fact, Tyson is a Canadian bred dog, is he not? I think Tyson's a really nice dog for the most part, and most definitely of correct size, too. I don't know where you get that he's too big. His tail doesn't look short to me, either. He'd look a little ridiculous if his muzzle was much longer, IMO. His stop is a little prominant, and sure, his head is a little bit too domed for my liking... but overall, he's a nice dog and definitely deserved to win the breed. And while you're most certainly entitled to your opinion, I think you're a little too critical of the breed. They're still relatively new, and breeders are still striving to produce an ideal Toller. They're not a very uniform breed as of yet, and there are many different "types" still. Spring & Dance for instance, while neither are the prettiest Tollers there ever was, are still good examples of that. The only thing they have in common are that they're Tollers and they're red. Structurally, they're miles apart.

[IRescue452]

Well I guess it was just the short grooming job that made his tail look way too short. I'm looking at different pictures. I like a good big flag on a toller.

I do hope they continue to have the good height vs length proportions though.

I stand by that he looks huge. I'd like to know his weight. He has a roman nose. Ears almost as big as my train wreck of a toller, who btw I wouldn't trade for anything, but I wouldn't breed her either.

[Ginger's Mom]

I readily admit that I do not know as much about Tollers as the three of you do, but I am not sure what you mean by way too big either, Irescue. I actually thought his size was very good. Were you mainly talking length? I agree with you Orangutango, although both of your girls are very pretty, they do seem to represent different preferences in how a Toller should look. And as I have told you numerous times, although I do think Dance is a very pretty girl, I just love the structure of Spring and her deeper color, she is my type of dog. :)

[fritz03]

I like the Bichon for obvious reasons,saw the Breed judging video,thought they were all cute,liked that the winner was a female .I like her name Gemstone Spoiled To Perfection,I imagine she is spoiled as much as Fritz is.I was on up her on Animal Planet Canada,we don't get it, the first night is on again tomorrow on TSN ,a sports channel.I saw the Sussex Spaniel Stump won,nice looking dog.I will watch this tomorrow,see the Bichon in Non Sporting,too bad she didn't win,she got 4th,maybe she should have won instead on the Standard Poodle,and she got placed behind a Bulldog and a french Bulldog,ther is always next year.

[Spiritwind]

The only dog I don't understand winning is the herding group winner. I've seen that Puli in person and he's, in my opinion, not that nice. Plus, they dye the dog's coat.

You know I thought the same thing. But I am just not a huge puli fan! But I said that to a friend of mine yesterday and he apparently knows the breeder of that dog.. and claims as far as Puli's go.. its a nice one? I don't know.. that is what he said LOL I didn't care for that dog. As far as the rest of the herding group.... the smooth Collie I wasn't real impressed with. The rough collie that got a G3, she is ok. She has only been with the handler who showed her at westminster for a few weeks... she always looked so much better with her previous handler... I think she got a G4 last year.






CONGRATS STUMP!!! Very nice dog!

Cali is correct. You are actually not suppose to dye or chalk your dogs. Although, a great deal of people do chalk their dogs. Dying is much more frowned upon. I've even chalked dogs. Mostly legs and feet. In both Sibes and Aussies. You can't cover anything other than minor kennel stains with chalk. Dying can dramatically change your dog.

I chalk my dogs (legs, chests, necks -- the white areas) I also have some brown powder chalk I chalk I can use on faces... but the majority of the chalk is brushed out before going in the ring. But chalking for some breeds has more of a purpose than covering stains.

I've seen A LOT of rusty tri-colors dyed for the ring... I've never dyed my dogs though, never had to... my tris are BLACK...

[IRescue452]

I don't think pulis meant to be nice.

Stump is a beautiful dog, but I have to question the ethics of showing him if he had a mysterious illness. You'd have to be absolutely sure it isn't anything that can be passed genetically, or why bother showing him in a show meant to select good breeding stock? If they can be sure it wasn't something that could be genetic, then great. He's a great dog and its so nice to see a breed win that isn't such a common winner like, say, oh, the poodle.

[Grace]

I don't think pulis meant to be nice.

Stump is a beautiful dog, but I have to question the ethics of showing him if he had a mysterious illness. You'd have to be absolutely sure it isn't anything that can be passed genetically, or why bother showing him in a show meant to select good breeding stock? If they can be sure it wasn't something that could be genetic, then great. He's a great dog and its so nice to see a breed win that isn't such a common winner like, say, oh, the poodle.

He's 10 years old - wouldn't his stud days be pretty much in the past? He was sick 5 years ago, with no problems since then. From what I read, his owner/handler didn't make up his mind to go forward with this until last Wednesday.

[cali]

I'm always extremely critical of the newly ruined "AKC" toller versus the original package.

well considering Tyson is Canadian, you cant really call him a "newly ruined AKC Toller" lol. I dont mind him actually, I agree that he DOES look a bit goldenish, but he a way nicer then many others I have seen, he can actually move for one thing, he has nice angulation..which BTW is a HUGE problem, one top winning Toller(over here) I know has such a straight rear you could put a ruler from his thighs to his feet and NOTHING will cross over that line, most others have back legs that are so long and straight they stick out backwards at an angle like a vaugely wavey slide. that is not sound structure for anything. I have a better question..can Tyson work? I would like to see him in a field, get at least a SH and hold up fine, if he can do that then I dont really care how "goldeny" he looks.

[Spiritwind]

You'd have to be absolutely sure it isn't anything that can be passed genetically, or why bother showing him in a show meant to select good breeding stock?

Yes... shows are meant to select good breeding "stock" however, in this day and age first off there are MANY MANY people out there who buy dogs from breeders just to show them, but do not breed. The point of dog shows is the pick the dog that the judge of that day feels best represents its breed standard, regardless of the dogs age, or what health problems the dog may have. You have to judge based on what dog is the best compared to its breed standard.

There are plenty of dogs out there who are finished champions who should NEVER be bred.. and there are plenty of beautiful, healthy, quality dogs out there who never finished their championship title but ended up being wonderful producers, producing better than finish champions.




He's 10 years old - wouldn't his stud days be pretty much in the past? He was sick 5 years ago, with no problems since then. From what I read, his owner/handler didn't make up his mind to go forward with this until last Wednesday.

It really depends on this dogs health and upkeep on whether he is still able to sire litters at age 10. I know of Collies who have sired litters at 10-11-12yrs of age, large healthy litters. CH Pinewynd's Sparkling Brut, ROM is the top champion producing smooth collie stud in breed history. He just died last year at around 14yrs of age. He sired his last litter at age 12.

[boomersooner]

This morning, cute little Stump was on Good Morning America. His handler or owner or whoever it was with him said he had a bacterial infection but didn't elaborate on what type or what caused it or anything like that. Stump was a doll. Yes, I saw the scottie let fly! Granted, I don't watch a lot of shows, but I had never seen that....it WAS funny!!! She never missed a step

[Chica]

I LOVE WATCHING WESTMINSTER. OF COURSE I LOVE THE TOY BREEDS. :love:THE SMOOTH HAIR CHIHUAHUA PRANCED AROUND SO ADORABLY. :love:

[Seravieve]

Wellp... I was disappointed.. I knew who won (from the daily question on freekibble.com) but it just stung a little more once I watched it. Stump's not my type of dog.. and I really dont see what all the fuss was about.. but boy the crowd sure loved him.

About the Toller.. I honestly think Orangutango's Dance is better looking. (I'm a big fan of your crew btw...) I thought the coat on the Westminster one looked rough and I wasn't really awed by him.

We picked out some future furkids though.. I want a fawn boxer (She was beautiful!), a harlequin great dane, and a red doberman. Wow.. They were all beautiful.. and J wants a Bull mastiff or a dogue de bordeaux.. =) Of course.. whatever we run across in shelters is who we'll actually get.. but thats my wish list!

[finn's mom]

I actually picked the winner this time. That's a first for me. There was just something about that spaniel. :) Not a breed I am into, but I loved Stump. The non stop tail wagging I think it was did it for me.

I have become an admirer of the Norfolk Terrier, for sure. And, David I both really loved the Scottish Deerhound. What a beautiful, happy gait!

[Twisterdog]

I was so happy Stump won! Gotta love it when the oldster wins, especially if he isn't the most glamorous of the bunch.

I didn't like the standard poodle either, not at all. I groom some better looking standard poodles than that one, I swear. The toy poodle, OTOH, was so adorable!

And I LOVED the rough collie, that dog is gorgeous.

It's been a long time since my breed, the smooth fox terrier, was in vouge at Westminster.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I LOVE WATCHING WESTMINSTER. OF COURSE I LOVE THE TOY BREEDS. :love:THE SMOOTH HAIR CHIHUAHUA PRANCED AROUND SO ADORABLY. :love:

I agree!! She was absolutely precious!! She had that prance down to a fine art. I really wanted them to pick her.

[IRescue452]

I've had to go back through the judging photos several times to get a closer look at the dogs. I wasn't impressed by the smooth chihuahua when I saw it on the tv, but its photo is adorable.

[elizabethann]

This is one of the first years I didn't watch the entire show. I missed some of the Terrier Group, and some of the Toy Group. I thought Stump was cute. I heard he has two kids. I can only remember one of their names...Root. I thought that was funny. Root and Stump.

[boomersooner]

I loved them all....now that I have Boomer, I think the spaniels are precious....I loved the way the Springer in the show stacked ( I think that is what it is called) He was pretty.....Boomer wouldn't stand that still if a million milkbones came his way! I liked the boxer, too....and of course, the dal.

[IRescue452]

Wallace will stack in front of me with a loose lead, and then he immediately plops his butt on the ground. Standing still for that long is considered a waste of energy to my dogs :rolleyes:

[ParNone]

bckrazy writes:

I loved that Cardi, to death... and I was actually on a Telltail waiting list, at one point. She was robbed.
The Cardi was my favorite too. So much personality. The Pembroke seemed so much more laid back. Loved the contrasting playfulness of the Cardi and I would have snatched him up in nanosecond.