The first step...

[Puckstop31]

To Canadian/European style "health care" here in the US.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs


"But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). "


The elderly will certianly be the first to suffer because of this.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! This stimulus package ROOLZ. :rolleyes:


Liz!!! How is THIS "stimulus"?

[Puckstop31]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090210/D968ER280.html


History teaches us that left wing idealouges LOVE a good crisis. Because like good ole Rahm Emaunuel said, "it lets us do things that we normally would not be able to do." America's first fascist "dictator", Woodrow Wilson, got the real war he needed. Did you know that American Citizens were arrested and jailed for simply SPEAKING out against his policies?

Fast forward to today. Modern "nanny state" liberalism can't use hawkish things to get them what they want, as it makes them look to much like what they really are... So they invent or use a "moral equivilant of war". George Bush did it.... Barack Obama is doing it now as well, this article says it all.



Look, I know most of you would disagree with me if I told you the sky was blue. So don't take my word for it. Just pick up a book or two about Woodrow Wilson and the American of the 1910-1919 era. It really did happen then.... And it can happen again. Or read about the depression of 1920. It was WAY worse, for a short time, than the crash of 29. Know why it was short? Because government did NOTHING and let the market fix itself. Know why the GREAT Depression was GREAT? Because government tried to "fix" it.


Those that do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

[Catty1]

I didn't read the links - but just to point out that people on 'free' health care in Canada are subject to very long wait times.

There are now private and paid services for MRIs etc so that people who have the money can get service more quickly.

We are moving to the 'two tiered' system, it seems...can hardly wait til all the good practitioners move to the private sector as it grows, and the public system becomes a morass of crowds and substandard care.

I would hope the "doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective" would prevent docs from charging outlandish fees. In each province and territory in Canada, there are set fees for each process or procedure - kind of like the cost book for auto mechanics that says what amount of time a certain repair should take. Everything from a blood test to surgeries has a set fee to it.

Which is why the private area is becoming more appealing to docs, and why our public health care advocates are really screaming against it.

Price caps could be a good thing - let's see how it goes.

[IRescue452]

Its all a load of bull. What about those people with an unknown diagnosis? Is it going to be cost effective to draw blood and take tests, or send them home and say they're imagining? This bill is freaky. Its like the movie Eagle Eye with a computer calculating whether or not the doctor gets to treat you or send you home to die.

[Grace]

History teaches us that left wing idealouges LOVE a good crisis. Because like good ole Rahm Emaunuel said, "it lets us do things that we normally would not be able to do." America's first fascist "dictator", Woodrow Wilson, got the real war he needed. Did you know that American Citizens were arrested and jailed for simply SPEAKING out against his policies?

Fast forward to today. Modern "nanny state" liberalism can't use hawkish things to get them what they want, as it makes them look to much like what they really are... So they invent or use a "moral equivilant of war". George Bush did it.... Barack Obama is doing it now as well, this article says it all.

Look, I know most of you would disagree with me if I told you the sky was blue. So don't take my word for it. Just pick up a book or two about Woodrow Wilson and the American of the 1910-1919 era. It really did happen then.... And it can happen again. Or read about the depression of 1920. It was WAY worse, for a short time, than the crash of 29. Know why it was short? Because government did NOTHING and let the market fix itself. Know why the GREAT Depression was GREAT? Because government tried to "fix" it.

Those that do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

I do agree with you that those in power like nothing more than a bogeyman to scare the population into submission. However, it most certainly is not one-sided. I think the Right Wing Idealogues crave it just as much as the Left. Otherwise W would not have been able to get away with all he did the past 8 years.

Did you rant against him the way you are against Obama?

[Puckstop31]

I do agree with you that those in power like nothing more than a bogeyman to scare the population into submission. However, it most certainly is not one-sided. I think the Right Wing Idealogues crave it just as much as the Left. Otherwise W would not have been able to get away with all he did the past 8 years.

Did you rant against him the way you are against Obama?

First, George Bush was NOT "exteme right wing". If anything, he is a wanna be leftist.

Second, YES. It is in the part you quoted from me.

"George Bush did it.... "


What burns my ass more than anything though is the complete ignorance of history on the part of THE PEOPLE. All you have to do is pick up one of several history texts to see the results of massive government meddling in the economy. At least George Bush admitted he was abandoning free market principles to "fix" it. Look where the first "emergency" bill got us? Half of it not spent yet and part of the other half... Nobody knows where it went.

My personal opinion is that President Obama is starting to realize that he was not ready to lead on this scale. His lack of executive leadership experience is showing. So he does what all politicians do... Use fear to get what he wants.

Its only going to get worse as more people understand what is actually in this bill. We can only hope that the process drags on long enough for the people to realize what is going on.


On a side note, anybody else think it was ironic that Obama was at a RV plant yesterday, stumping for this bill? I thought RVs were part of the reason the planet was dying?

[Grace]

Did you answer my question? You're not the only one that can play that game, Puck. You know, continuing to ask the question ad infinitum.

Did you rant against him the way you are against Obama?

[Puckstop31]

Did you answer my question? You're not the only one that can play that game, Puck. You know, continuing to ask the question ad infinitum.

Did you rant against him the way you are against Obama?

Yes. But only during his 2nd term. I was admittedly a "ditto head" during his first term. I supported a lot of things he did without looking at them from a historical context.

Looking back... I was WAY wrong to do so. But I learned my lesson and am determined to not let it happen again. Now, if only our government "leaders" could do the same, eh?

Now, can we get back to talking about what is going on now? Or do we want this thread to be about me and not the issues?

[Grace]

Thank you.

As for the rest -
Now, can we get back to talking about what is going on now? Or do we want this thread to be about me and not the issues?

I'm not conversant enough, with the subject you raised, to discuss.

[Grace]

Ok - I went and read the article. This really caught my eye -

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion.

Me thinks it is time to contact my Senators.

[Puckstop31]

Ok - I went and read the article. This really caught my eye -


Me thinks it is time to contact my Senators.


Oh yeah... Senators Spector and Casey's offices are on my speed dial.