Disecting cats in Biology class.

[pitc9]

I'm out of school (have been since 1993)
But when I was in school, when it came time in Bio II to disect something, they did fetal pigs. (I did not take the class)

I was shocked when I looked at my brother in laws year book (he graduated this summer) and they are now disecting cats! CATS!!!!!

There was a picture of it in the year book! I cried when I realized it was a cat! I saw the pads on one of the feet and lost it!!!

I looked up on the internet and found some places use PREGNANT CATS!!!
OMG... I've been torn up all weekend.

I know pigs are animals too... but cats... they're family PETS!
I don't know where they get them from but if nothing else, I hope they get them from a pound after they are PTS. Which makes it even more sad. Not only did they die just because they didn't have a home, but on top of it their bodies are destroyed. :(

How could these kids do that? Do none of them have a cat for a pet?!
I just need to vent. :(

[Catty1]

Some schools have a dirty little money game buying animals for research. Your local Humane or SPCA may know something about this, or maybe they should be notified.

And - the town council.

Please find out...if they are doing this illegally, you may save some lives!

RIP poor babies.

[JenBKR]

Oh I don't think I could have handled a cat. We did starfish, worms, frogs, and one or two other little things if I remember correctly...but I would have lost it had I seen a cat there in front of me.

AP bio, which I didn't take, always did a whale towards the end of the year. I can remember the 'fishy' smell in the science hall for at least a week :eek:

[Medusa]

Years ago, I knew a woman who was a lab technician and was taking nursing classes. She told me then, I'd say it was in '82 or '83, that they dissected a cat. She said "Mary, there wasn't a thing wrong w/that cat either. It made me sick to do it".

[Marigold2]

If the cat is being used to improve our lives in health issues and most important if the cat was going to be put down because of an inability to adopt or a terminal illness that is understandable.
Vets have to learn on cats and all manner of creatures, as do Dr's. It is a sad and horrible truth.
As for buying animals to do research on, are these cats already slated to be put down?
I would rather have a surgeron opperate and practice open heart surgery on a hundred cats and dogs before he tries it on my child. Untill we have man made organs and enough spare human parts to practice on this will sadly continue.
Yet I don't think it would be easy for me either, too personal.

[Husky_mom]

I know from other persons they have been doing this to be more accurate or something... and I´ve known rats.. but not cats... how sad indeed... hopefully they were already gone... as i´ve heard soem of these rats go under anaesthesia.. get disected... then stitched... and woken up...

when I was at school.. they did worms and frogs... I say did as I skipped that part.. I just couldn´t.. not even the worm... and not even they were already dead... I just couldn´t...

but I´ve seen an autopsy of a puppy... I still cried.. but I didn´t do it, just watched for an answer.. (not my puppy, from a vet I worked for)

[pomtzu]

Back in the 70's I worked as a lab tech in the biology dept at the Univ of DE. I witnessed cats being used in experiments - what they were doing I don't know and didn't ask - but they had electrodes implanted in the top of their heads - and after the "experiments" were complete - the aimals were destroyed. It made me sick!!! - and fortunately I did not work in the division with the people that were conducting these experiments. I just avoided that section of the building like the plague!

[Desert Arabian]

For my human anatomy/physiology class in high school we had to disect cats second semester. I refused to participate with the cat. I had no problem doing the pig, cow eye, sheep brain, etc although it wasn't very pleasant. I sat to the side and watched my lab mates with the cat, taking notes accordingly and learning the parts - but I refused to touch it. It made me cry because it was an orange male cat and made me think about my Sammy baby. At the same time it was kind of neat to see everything and learn about some of the stuff. Now, if it was a pregnany cat with kittens in the womb - I would have walked out of the class and dropped out - that's sickening!!! :(

[Catlady711]

I could never work in research, take a biology disecting class, or live on a working livestock farm.

Yes at work we do surgery and all manner of gross stuff to animals at work, but the animals are asleep, and what we're doing to them helps them, not destroys them (well save for euthenasia but that's usually a blessing to end horrible suffering). When we're done with an animal it wakes up, and usually feels better either immediately or in a couple days and you can see it's health improve. Somehow that makes what we do easier to deal with.

[ramanth]

My High School biology class ('95) disected cats. I had pet cats and so did my lab partner. We were told the cats died of natural causes and were donated. Whether that was true or not, I can't say.

Only one student opted out. My lab partner and I participated. At the time I was considering becoming a vet, so I found it useful and helpful.

[Daisy and Delilah]

We had to dissect a cat in my college anatomy/physiology class. The cats we used came from Mexico. They were packed in formaldehyde and it was nauseating to tolerate the smell. It was very sad. I could only wonder why the cat ended up there.:( :( :(

I really never thought the dissection of the cat helped me that much with the class either. Why bother subjecting people to it and destroying the life of an innocent cat?:(

[Catty1]

There are plenty of people who leave their bodies to medical science so that medical students can learn.

When I was in 2nd year university, several of us were invited to see an experiment a friend was doing. This cat had electrodes attached to its head, the eyelids were held open...I must have looked shocked, because my friend told me, "The cat is drugged with curare (sp?). He doesn't feel anything."

I'd had a crush on him....not after that!

This was in the 70's. I know Obama has a lot of really important and vital work to do, huge issues to deal with - but I hope he can inspire and instil a respect for ALL life in all people.

From Black Friday to dissecting cats - and cruelty to animals and children...I hope and pray for a sea change.

[Cincy'sMom]

We disected not only cats, but also rabbits, fetal pigs, and many other smaller animals in my HS anatomy/Phys class. I didn't really give it a lot of thought...I knew going in it was part of the class and I don't regret taking the class, being a science major in college.

In retrospect, I don't know if I would have taken the class so readily if it was a dog. Maybe that isn't fair, becuase one is not a better pet then the other, but it was easier to distance myself form the cat, having never had one as a pet.

[Casper]

I know I couldn't do it. :(
In the biology classes at my school kids are allowed to dissect sheep eyes, crawfish, frogs, and fish. I participated in all of those without any problem. The thought of dissecting something with fur bothers me for some reason. I can't put my finger on the reason why I can dissect fish and frogs(both animals I own) but not furry animals. Its not like their lives are any less valuable...

I don't see why someone can't come up with eerily similar models of dissected animals... out of ballistics gel or something.. I mean, you have probably seen hollywood movie props that are so accurate that they could fool you for the real thing.

[k9krazee]

I don't think that high schools should be allowed to dissect cats, or larger animals in general. I read something somewhere that only 10% of people will actually pursue science in higher education and fewer of those will ever use the skills/knowledge you gain by doing dissections.

In HS we dissected the fetal pig. I didn't have much of an issue with that because the pigs were all still born or died of natural causes. The other high schools in the area all dissected cats, but my teacher told us that it cost too much money to do the cats, and he had students in the past that weren't as willing to do it.

I can understand dissecting cats in college courses, but don't really understand why so many high schools do it. I do wonder where they get them from though. :(

[Twisterdog]

I could not disect a cat. No way. However, I could not disect a pig, either.

When I took high school biology, we disected frogs. They were already dead, and in formaldahyde. Actually, they were just like stiff rubber toys. While I certainly did not enjoy it, it was possible to get through it.

Then, the next year, I took advanced biology. We had to disect live frogs. Our teacher basically scrambled their brains while they were alive, so they were breathing but not moving. He described what he, and we, were going to do, and I got up and left the room. He came out in the hall and asked me what, exactly, I thought I was doing. I said there was no way on earth I was doing or watching that. He said I would get an F on the assignment and a truant for the class period. I said that was fine with me. He just stared at me ... I had an A+ in the class ... and said, "Oh. Ok." He did not, after all, give me a back grade or a truant, and several other people left the classroom after I did.

I understand that some animal research is necesary. And while I do not want to hear about or participate in it, I know it is sometimes necesary. However, I also know from attending a university where a lot of animal research goes on, that a LOT of it is NOT necesary or productive in the least. Animal suffer horribly for, frankly, completely absurd reasons. I do not think this should be allowed.

As far as it being a cat, honestly, I have to say ... what's the difference? Is a cat's life more important than a pig's? Or a frog's? All animals feel pain and fear. I don't think it's right to torture ANY animal.

[Suki Wingy]

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the cats are already dead. It's not like the dead cats care what happens to their bodies.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Twisterdog, THANK YOU! I totally agree.

Suki, how do we know that the cats did not die JUST for the classes?

And I sure as heck dont want to be disected when I die.

I dont want to have an autopsy or even prepped for burial.:eek: I think it is morally wrong for ANY animal to be disected in a classroom in highschool.

Whats to say it wont make mean kids decide to try it on ANY pet they find wandering? Bet Dahmer would have LOVED this course:rolleyes: That is RIGHT up his alley:mad:

[Barbara]

I know that disecting animals is part of your school life- I would never have survived that. Here it is not done at all- only at university when you study biology or medicine. I was happy to learn about anatomy from drawings and hope that will be it for the rest of my life.
I cannot even disect a dead chicken for dinner and am close to fainting when I cut my finger but if I had to face a mammal I would have just died.

[Suki Wingy]

Well, I do. When I die, I want every salvageable organ and tissue to be used to save other people's lives that are dieing if they don't get X organ transplant.

About the cats, if there was a sure-fire way to prove they didn't die just to be dissected then I would be all for it. If the school board made sure somehow that the cats either died of natural causes or were euthenized at a shelter after they would have been anyway then I'd be happy. The average city shelter euthenizes 5-10 healthy cats a day because they just don't have room for them all. If they had to go to die at least their bodies could go to good use.

I don't know if the cats care what happens to them, because no one can ever prove or disprove in life after death, but I believe there is nothing after death, which is why I want my body to go to helping other people live after I am gone.

[pomtzu]

I don't know if the cats care what happens to them, because no one can ever prove or disprove in life after death, but I believe there is nothing after death,

I imagine that statement will evoke numerous opinions here. Maybe somebody should start a new thread on this one, but it won't be me, since I refuse to debate politics or religion on PT! It makes interesting reading tho...........

[Suki Wingy]

It kind of is related to this though. How can the cats care what happens to their bodies if their thoughts cease to exist after they are dead?

Conversely, someone could say the cats' thoughts and souls still live on after their body dies and so they would be upset that their bodies were cut up. I know that people used to believe that their bodies needed to be intact for them to go to heaven so they went to great lengths to make sure they weren't stolen by grave robbers when they died. Same as this current situation has with cats, there was an upswing in people killing healthy people in order to fill the schools' needs for cadavers.

[Twisterdog]

I can understand dissecting cats in college courses, but don't really understand why so many high schools do it. I do wonder where they get them from though. :(

That is a very good point, I meant to mention that in my earlier post. Dissecting ANYTHING in high school is generally a complete waste. Who needs that information ... a doctor, vet or biologist. How many high school kids grow up to be those things? And if they do, they will get plenty of it in college and post-graduate work.

And an interesting point was made about the source of the cats ... if they were euthanized at an animal control facility earlier anyway, then that is a far different thing then raising and killing cats specifically for dissection or experimentation.

[IRescue452]

I wouldn't do the cats in high school. I cried after seeing them because they reminded me of my own cat. I believe most cats are killed for the purpose of dissection, but slowly slowly slowly places that do dissections are starting to get animals from shelters and vets (yes your own pets could end up on the dissection table after euthanasia at the vet if you don't ask where they are going). I read somewhere that some places catch cats off the streets in Mexico and use them, but who knows. Imagine if you recognized the cat on the table and you were in high school. I volunteered at the animal shelter and my biggest fear was seeing one of the cats from the shelter in science class all cut up.

I did the frog though and I use the info as I've done necropsies on my own rodents when they die of unknown causes. But in all reality, most of what I learned about what the insides of a healthy mouse should look like and how to navigate their organs by looking at pictures, not by a classroom dissection.

I would never ever do vivisection (dissecting a live animal), unless you were actually doing a surgery. There's no point in keeping the animal alive while you cut it up just so you can kill it when you're done.

[CathyBogart]

My school did get the cats from the local Humane Society after they had been PTS. I saw them do the drop-off once. At least those cats went on to educate someone when they couldn't find loving homes.

[IRescue452]

Getting them locally is not a good move in my opinion. They should go to a different county humane society. Can you imagine if some high school student had to give up their cat because their parents for some reason made them (someone in the house is allergic or so on) and then the cat showed up in a bag of formeldahyde on their science desk?

[sammy101]

IMO, if the cats were PTS humanely or died of natural causes I see nothing wrong with it. I don't think that's right for high school though. I think college/university is more fit for something like this.

I dissected a rat in 10th grade. I was ok with it then but I don't know about now.

[lizbud]

My high school required Biology classes. I loved the science of it, but
the lab excerise was awful. I quickly found a good lab partner who did
all the cutting while I took notes. :) We only had to do worms & frogs.

[king2005]

When I did Bio our teacher told us where the animals came from. He is an animal lover & only gets them from a trusted source. The pigs came from adult pigs that went to slaughtor & ended up being pregnant. So the baby pigs were sold to the company. The frogs came from research labs, same with the rats. The cats came from the same company who got them from different animal shelters. They were cats that were destroyed & instead of going to the landfill to rot.

No the shelters were not getting $ for this. The cats were all donated in order to prevent any issues.. BUT the schools bought the cats from the company.

There was info on the company if we wanted to read more up on it to insure the school wasn't buying animals to be killed for class, etc...

I quite injoyed the class & so did everyone else.

[Fett]

In high school, I remember using the frogs and earthworms and fetal pigs. In middle school we did adult pig's hearts because they are the closest thing to human hearts.

[joanofark]

I'm currently in high school, and the AP Bio classes actually dissected cats before school let out last year. The science wing had a pretty raunchy smell for a couple days.

However, any student is free to opt out and do the same thing on the the computer program. About 1/4 of ever class did so.

[wolflady]

Even though I loved my biology classes, I don't think I could have dissected a cat. It was hard enough doing the frog and the worm!

[RICHARD]

If you go back in time and look at the Da Vinci sketches of the human anatomy there is a very visceral and at the same time beautiful look of them.

I dissected a cat in Anatomy and was not thrilled about it. The teacher explained to us that it was not a mandatory 'hands on' part of the class but she expected people to watch.

She also told us to name our cats and to treat them with dignity and respect, for they were there to teach us and if we looked at them with that kind of honor, we would be able to get thru that part of the course.

Our cat was named Bubbles and to this day, when I see the innards of animal or human, I flip back to that cat and appreciate how and what I was able to to take away from those classes and I can really say that it helped me really
honor and respect a very tough and challenging part of my education.

Had those animals just been killed and dumped or cremated I would have never been able to have come away with the knowledge I have of the human body, muscles and the skeletal structures.

The Amerinds had/have a wonderful ideal when it comes to animals they killed for food and fur.

They would only take the animals they needed and prayed over the bodies and honored their lives, deaths and what they left behind.

I think we can all learn from that ideal.:cool:

[lizbud]

A pretty brave young person spoke up & made a impression & a change
for her school.:)

Belzer student leads way to dissection alternative
By John Tuohy
Posted: January 14, 2009 A Lawrence Township 6th grader has persuaded the school district to offer students an alternative to dissecting real frogs in science class.

Belzer Middle School student Kara Hairston won a $2,000 prize for her efforts from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Kara will present half of the award to Assistant Superintendent Duane Hodgin and Principal Ron Davie at a ceremony at Belzer on Thursday.


"She did all the research on alternatives to dissection, presented it to the board of education and blew their socks off," Hodgin said.

Kara will also give the district advanced software that allows students to simulate dissections by computer. The program will be available to all elementary, middle and high school students who want to use it instead of dissecting actual frogs, Hodgin said

Kara discovered that the frogs used in her school's dissections were taken from the wild and she sought other ways for students to learn the same lessons without cutting open the amphibians, according to the PCRM.

"Studies show that non-animal methods teach concepts in biology and anatomy just as well or better than animal dissection," said Jonathan Balcombe, a PCRM biologist, said in a news release.

The presentation will be 9:45 a.m. at Belzer, 7555 E. 56th St.

Call Star reporter John Tuohy at (317) 444-5526.