The world with lots of handguns in it!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Guess we will need metal detectors in toy stores now....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/28/national/main4637468.shtml

[cassiesmom]

That was so sad and strange. My mom and dad went to Palm Desert once when they were in California visiting my cousins. They said it was beautiful and upscale. When I heard this story I thought how odd, that doesn't seem like the kind of place where a shopper would take a gun into a store. In Chicago, maybe. But not there. Same thing with the Wal-Mart employee who got trampled by the shoppers, strange and sad.

[blue]

In Chicago, maybe.

Why would you think this would be more likely to happen in Chicago?

*Edit*I emailed the city of Palm Desert, Calif for copies of their firearm laws to compare with Chicago's.

[DJFyrewolf36]

Why would you think this would be more likely to happen in Chicago?

*Edit*I emailed the city of Palm Desert, Calif for copies of their firearm laws to compare with Chicago's.


That would be a very interesting thing to see, I hope you get a reply!

[RICHARD]

The local press is reporting that it was a "personal" situation that led to the shooting. The local TV ran a clip of a "person of interest" being cuffed while leaning on the rear of a sheriff's cruiser.

She looks like she is Mexican and is yelling to someone off camera, "I am going to kill you!".

This POS can't even control herself AFTER the person she was with was shot and killed. MY take? Let's give thanks for selective culling of the herd. These two AHs took each other out and thank god they didn't hurt anyone else.

---------

Palm Desert is just like any out lying area of a large Metro area. The scumbags that cannot afford the city and are willing to work at cheaply paid jobs have moved out to the desert areas where they can be scum with little or no law enforcement intrusion.

---------

Judging by all the murders that have happened at toy stores in the last 20 years, it's time to take a stand.

[rosethecopycat]

The councilman says his question is: who takes a loaded gun into a toy store. And his answer is: "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."


Now there's the newest oxymoron I've heard:

casual holiday shopper
:rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

This POS can't even control herself AFTER the person she was with was shot and killed. MY take? Let's give thanks for selective culling of the herd. These two AHs took each other out and thank god they didn't hurt anyone else.



But isn't that just it? What if I am not a AH or POS or whatever...what if I am just a person in Toys R Us...someone who wants to buy a toy.

And I am dead. Because of the guns.

Am I any less dead because I am not one of the AH or the POS or ..whatever?

Does that make me part of the herd or not part of the herd?

No. I am dead.

[blue]

But isn't that just it? What if I am not a AH or POS or whatever...what if I am just a person in Toys R Us...someone who wants to buy a toy.

And I am dead. Because of the guns.

Am I any less dead because I am not one of the AH or the POS or ..whatever?

Does that make me part of the herd or not part of the herd?

No. I am dead.

So you would confront and provoke someone who is brandishing a firearm? Why would you take such an action unless you are armed?

[sparks19]

I'm so sick of this nonsense.

AGAIN... no one posts the articles about the guns that SAVE INNOCENT people.

Yeah... criminals kill people... OMG shocking

but whatever... I know the stance.... I'm not going to try to change your mind... but I am also not going to put my families life in your hands either.

like I said before. YOU don't have to like it... but my daughters life will be in MY hands and my husbands hands... NOT yours.

I will NOT be trusting her life in the event of the "unthinkable" to YOU or the POLICE.

You don't have to like it.

[Grace]

So you would confront and provoke someone who is brandishing a firearm? Why would you take such an action unless you are armed?

No, she would not have to confront anyone. She could have been simply a shopper who got hit by a stray bullet. You know - one of those drive-by victims.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I will NOT be trusting her life in the event of the "unthinkable" to YOU or the POLICE.

You don't have to like it.

I have no interest in protecting your daughter. She is your responsibility.

Just be careful and don't take her to any Toys R Us! You never know who might be armed there. And a faster draw than you!

[blue]

No, she would not have to confront anyone. She could have been simply a shopper who got hit by a stray bullet. You know - one of those drive-by victims.

She wouldnt get down or run to get out of the area? I didnt realise the shooters at the ToysRUs drove into the store.

A PSA for anybody afraid of people legally carrying a concealed firearm in stores, restaurants and, with few exceptions, other public places. Stay out of Alaska. Anybody who can legally own, and purchase a handgun can carry concealed here.

[Grace]

She wouldnt get down or run to get out of the area? I didnt realise the shooters at the ToysRUs drove into the store.


You know darn well I wasn't implying anyone actually drove into the store. Did you read the latest article about this incident? The guys pulled out handguns and ran down the store aisles shooting at one another. Imagine that one or more of those bullets strayed from the intended target and landed in the next aisle? Imagine again that there was a person in that aisle? Imagine once more that the person was hit by the stray bullet?

THAT is what I meant by drive-by victim. The innocent person, hit by a bullet, shot by some nutcase. It happens in Detroit frequently. I don't imagine that the 3 month old baby, asleep in his crib, had a gun under his pillow to shoot at the bad guys. And a 3 month old was killed not too long ago - just sleeping in his crib.

[Grace]

A PSA for anybody afraid of people legally carrying a concealed firearm in stores, restaurants and, with few exceptions, other public places. Stay out of Alaska. Anybody who can legally own, and purchase a handgun can carry concealed here.

That doesn't bother me at all. I have several friends who have CPLs. They are law abiding citizens who have passed all the requirements in order to obtain a CPL.

It's the people carrying illegally who concern me.

[Edwina's Secretary]

That doesn't bother me at all. I have several friends who have CPLs. They are law abiding citizens who have passed all the requirements in order to obtain a CPL.

It's the people carrying illegally who concern me.

Here in Orange County the now-on-trial-for-corruption former sheriff gave out concealed weapon permits as political favors. The new sheriff is trying to review the permits and make sure they only go to people who need them and have proved they are qualified.

The Gun People are in an uproar. The entire editorial page in today's paper...the outrage!

So if you are in SoCal....you need to be careful shopping in Toys R Us AND worry about some of the people legally carrying concealed weapons. And be careful sleeping in your crib. Or sitting on your front porch. Or driving on the highway. They're everywhere.

[Grace]

Here in Orange County the now-on-trial-for-corruption former sheriff gave out concealed weapon permits as political favors. The new sheriff is trying to review the permits and make sure they only go to people who need them and have proved they are qualified.

The Gun People are in an uproar. The entire editorial page in today's paper...the outrage!

So if you are in SoCal....you need to be careful shopping in Toys R Us AND worry about some of the people legally carrying concealed weapons. And be careful sleeping in your crib. Or sitting on your front porch. Or driving on the highway. They're everywhere.

I'm not - in SoCal.

I have a husband who lives and dies by the 2nd Amendment. As I said, I have no problem with people having a gun. I do have problems with those who don't abide by the laws of their town, city, state, whatever.

In Michigan, you can get a CPL by taking a safety class, having a background and fingerprint check done by the Sheriff's Department. The CPL has to be renewed every 4 or 5 years.

My husband would like to move to Vermont. The gun laws there are almost nonexistent. In both Vermont and Alaska, one can carry concealed without a permit. I don't recall hearing of any horrible instances of gun violence occurring in either of those states.

[blue]

You know darn well I wasn't implying anyone actually drove into the store. Did you read the latest article about this incident? The guys pulled out handguns and ran down the store aisles shooting at one another. Imagine that one or more of those bullets strayed from the intended target and landed in the next aisle? Imagine again that there was a person in that aisle? Imagine once more that the person was hit by the stray bullet?

THAT is what I meant by drive-by victim. The innocent person, hit by a bullet, shot by some nutcase. It happens in Detroit frequently. I don't imagine that the 3 month old baby, asleep in his crib, had a gun under his pillow to shoot at the bad guys. And a 3 month old was killed not too long ago - just sleeping in his crib.

Nobody other then the shooters were hit in the Toys 4 Us fire fight. So unless more details have been released, it was not a drive by shooting, no matter how you meant it, as there where no other victims.

Could someone who lives near a Toys 4 Us store confirm the stores are posted as a "Gun Free Zone"?


So if you are in SoCal....you need to be careful shopping in Toys R Us AND worry about some of the people legally carrying concealed weapons. And be careful sleeping in your crib. Or sitting on your front porch. Or driving on the highway. They're everywhere.

Did I miss the story stating the late shooters had legal conceal carry permits, or are you just assuming they had them?

Could someone who resides in or around Riverside County CA post up about conceal carry law there?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Could someone who lives near a Toys 4 Us store confirm the stores are posted as a "Gun Free Zone"?


That has to be one of the SADDEST things I have ever read. A TOY STORE needs to be posted as a "Gun Free Zone."

I have never used this expression before....WHAT is this country coming to???

[Lady's Human]

When a business declares itself a gun free zone, it's declaring that the private property owned by the store is gun free, meaning no one can carry on the property.

[Grace]

Nobody other then the shooters were hit in the Toys 4 Us fire fight. So unless more details have been released, it was not a drive by shooting, no matter how you meant it, as there where no other victims.


Good grief, are you as obtuse as you seem, or are you just nit picking?

I put my original comment about drive by shooting in italics. It was meant metaphorically.

[blue]

That has to be one of the SADDEST things I have ever read. A TOY STORE needs to be posted as a "Gun Free Zone."

I have never used this expression before....WHAT is this country coming to???

Since you have spent so long in Chitown Im not suprised you have never heard the term. You might also think of it as a Victim Only Zone, as legal gun owners are the only ones who would abide by that rule.

Some further explanations of Gun Free Zones here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGGmFj9282Q), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdI4jA-nC7s) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKXbdW-JsWU).

[blue]

Good grief, are you as obtuse as you seem, or are you just nit picking?

I put my original comment about drive by shooting in italics. It was meant metaphorically.

Im simply tired and fed up with the BS drive by victim argument in non drive by incidents with or without italics.

[sparks19]

I have no interest in protecting your daughter. She is your responsibility.

Just be careful and don't take her to any Toys R Us! You never know who might be armed there. And a faster draw than you!

You're right... she IS my responsibility and I take that responsibility very seriously.

Be careful and don't take her to toys r us because something might happen?

talk about living in fear....

perhaps I just shouldn't leave the house with her because we may get hit by a car or a loose dog might try to attack or a rapist could be on the loose.

:rolleyes:

I will do my best to be prepared for the worst.... but I'm not going to hide for fear of CRIMINALS.

I'm getting tired of the "guns make it too easy to kill people" argument. So it makes it better if the killer WORKS for his kill? the human race will never stop killing others.... Before guns they found plenty of ways to torture and kill each other. STIFFER PUNISHMENT for those who commit gun crimes... PERIOD. PUNISH the PERSON not the object. It's not HIS fault... the GUN did it.

[Marigold2]

Sounds like you live in the wild west or Dodge City.
Chances are you will never use your guns to protect yourself against home invaders or a person shooting at you.
What you need to truly worry about if you want to protect your daughter is
drunk drivers hitting your car when you are returning from grocery shopping
a school mate calling her fat, ugly, stupid.
a best friend not inviting her to a party
a teacher not liking her
finding out she has a learning disability that will cause her to need special classes or treatment
cancer
a boyfriend breaking her heart
breaking her leg on the night of her senior prom
not being good at dodgeball
having problems reading or doing math
an allegery to an unknown food
a bad cold that won't go away
or going over to a friends house and being given drugs
having a classmate show off dad's new gun
another girl being mean to her, just because she can
This and a million other things parents worry about as their child grows older. If you ask other members of PT who have been parents for a while these are the things that hurt children. Having a gun does not protect against any of these.
My daughter went to a friends house and the numbnut was cleaning his gun right in front of the girls and his infant daughter, she never went back there.
What scared me was people who didn't lock up their guns. People that didn't teach their kids to stay away from them. Many 14 year olds just have to show their friends the guns because heck it's cool. That is what you should fear as well.
And just because someone takes gun safety classes doesn't mean he won't go out drinking, get incredibly drunk pull the gun on his wife or child because they got into a fight. Happens all the time. No matter how many gun safety classes a person takes, human nature comes into play and people are shot over and over and over by family members.
Did we have guns in the house, yup my dad was a cop. Do I own a gun, yes. But being raised by a cop I know the dangers all too well. You are much more likely to be killed by your own gun then protecting your home or family. Unless you have training all the time, not target practice but defense training hitting a target is very difficult, most people freeze and in that moment the bad guy takes the gun or hits you over the head or whatever. Rare is the person who stays calm enough to fire a straight shot.
So even though I believe in the right to bare arms, I also think 99% of people shouldn't have one.

I'm so sick of this nonsense.

AGAIN... no one posts the articles about the guns that SAVE INNOCENT people.

Yeah... criminals kill people... OMG shocking

but whatever... I know the stance.... I'm not going to try to change your mind... but I am also not going to put my families life in your hands either.

like I said before. YOU don't have to like it... but my daughters life will be in MY hands and my husbands hands... NOT yours.

I will NOT be trusting her life in the event of the "unthinkable" to YOU or the POLICE.

You don't have to like it.

[Lady's Human]

My daughter went to a friends house and the numbnut was cleaning his gun right in front of the girls and his infant daughter, she never went back there.
What scared me was people who didn't lock up their guns. People that didn't teach their kids to stay away from them.

What's wrong with that? If the kids know there are guns, and know how to deal with them, where's the problem? If the adult cleaning the weapon knows what they're doing, where's the issue?

If a gun is locked up, what good is it in case of home invasion?

What bothers me more than anything is the irrational fear of an inanimate object, and the ineffective and damaging feel good laws which result.

[jennielynn1970]

I think when it comes to toy stores, I'd be more afraid of pedophiles preying on the children in there than I would wondering if another person was carrying a gun.

I hear gunfire outside where I live from time to time... still doesn't stop me from walking around my neighborhood just because of some idiots. Our neighborhood is relatively safe, but you have wackos everywhere... as evidenced by the Toys R Us incident.

[caseysmom]

Sounds like you live in the wild west or Dodge City.
Chances are you will never use your guns to protect yourself against home invaders or a person shooting at you.
What you need to truly worry about if you want to protect your daughter is
drunk drivers hitting your car when you are returning from grocery shopping
a school mate calling her fat, ugly, stupid.
a best friend not inviting her to a party
a teacher not liking her
finding out she has a learning disability that will cause her to need special classes or treatment
cancer
a boyfriend breaking her heart
breaking her leg on the night of her senior prom
not being good at dodgeball
having problems reading or doing math
an allegery to an unknown food
a bad cold that won't go away
or going over to a friends house and being given drugs
having a classmate show off dad's new gun
another girl being mean to her, just because she can
This and a million other things parents worry about as their child grows older. If you ask other members of PT who have been parents for a while these are the things that hurt children. Having a gun does not protect against any of these.
My daughter went to a friends house and the numbnut was cleaning his gun right in front of the girls and his infant daughter, she never went back there.
What scared me was people who didn't lock up their guns. People that didn't teach their kids to stay away from them. Many 14 year olds just have to show their friends the guns because heck it's cool. That is what you should fear as well.
And just because someone takes gun safety classes doesn't mean he won't go out drinking, get incredibly drunk pull the gun on his wife or child because they got into a fight. Happens all the time. No matter how many gun safety classes a person takes, human nature comes into play and people are shot over and over and over by family members.
Did we have guns in the house, yup my dad was a cop. Do I own a gun, yes. But being raised by a cop I know the dangers all too well. You are much more likely to be killed by your own gun then protecting your home or family. Unless you have training all the time, not target practice but defense training hitting a target is very difficult, most people freeze and in that moment the bad guy takes the gun or hits you over the head or whatever. Rare is the person who stays calm enough to fire a straight shot.
So even though I believe in the right to bare arms, I also think 99% of people shouldn't have one.


What did you do to protect them against neurosis?

[Twisterdog]

What's wrong with that? If the kids know there are guns, and know how to deal with them, where's the problem? If the adult cleaning the weapon knows what they're doing, where's the issue?

If a gun is locked up, what good is it in case of home invasion?

What bothers me more than anything is the irrational fear of an inanimate object, and the ineffective and damaging feel good laws which result.

I agree.

Please explain to me why cleaning a firearm is a bad thing, to be done in private away from children? That's absurd. That's like saying, "OMG, someone was changing the oil in their car, changing their chainsaw blade, sharpening a kitchen knife or putting a new sparkplug on the lawmower ... in front of children!"

I grew up around guns, and not only watched my dad clean them, but was taught how to clean one myself. Every time I smell gun oil, I think of my daddy cleaning his rifle at the kitchen table. It makes me miss him very much.

Guns held no more fascination and allure for me than did a fishing pole, a hand saw or a weed eater. A gun was just one more of dad's tools. I was taught never to touch any of his tools without his permission. If I wanted to go fishing or shooting, he took me. It was never a big deal. I raised my child the same way. He knows how to shoot and clean a gun, and knows I'll take him out shooting when he wants to go. He has never made a big deal about a gun, because I never made it into one. As it should be.

A gun is just a tool, that's all, no more or less. You can kill someone with a gun, sure, and you can kill someone with a hammer, a knife, a rock or a car, too. How many people die in this country because someone didn't know how to drive and ran into them in a vehicle? A LOT more than get shot, I assure you.

Yes, I am appalled that people were shooting each other in a toy store. There is no justification for that, and hopefully the hammer of justice will fall where it should.

However, to throw the wet blanket of gun control over every US citizen because of it is absurd. Should we all lose our cars because some drunk driver caused an accident and killed someone? What about the rest of us, who are careful, responsible drivers? Same goes for guns.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I am not afraid of guns. As has been said...they are inanimate. I am afraid of the people who feel the need to have a gun with them for protection.

I don't trust them. I don't trust what they will do with the gun.

If you want to have a gun in your home because of your fears of a home invasion....fine...as long as you make sure it is never stolen and used to shoot someone else who is not invading your home.

And you don't shoot someone who isn't really invading your home but just ringing the doorbell.

That your gun is not used for any purpose other than protecting your life and the life of your family.

But I emphatically do not agree I should be subjected to hidden guns in the grocery, the toy store, the gas station or the restaurant. Or anyplace else.

Didn't the hidden gun of some athlete go off in his pants in a nightclub this weekend?

The hammer of justice is cold comfort if you are dead.

[Marigold2]

What scared me about this person cleaning a gun in front of children was the fact that I didn't know him well. I don't know what his training or experience was around guns. If he was a careful man or a newbe and I didn't want my daughter around that. Thousands of people have shot themselves by accident cleaning a gun.
Having a gun in the house means you always have to be aware of other children bieng around. As I said my dad was a cop and the guns were always around, however when children came they were locked up tight. Your child might know not to touch them but what about their friends that come over? It's easy to forget to lock a gun up when you are cooking dinner, the phone is ringing and your daughter walks in with two friends wanting to do homework or your son is upstaires with new friends playing video games that have guns in them. Children are curious and guns are made out to be cool by society.
Children take drugs and know not to.
Children drive without sealtbelts and know not to
Children have sex and know not to
And chidren pick up guns and shot their sister and know not to
I just don't think guns and children are a good mixture.

[caseysmom]

Sounds like he was a careful guy, he was cleaning his gun. I wouldn't have a problem with him.

I'd be more worried about my kid going over to someone's house with bigoted views and brainwashing my kid.

[RICHARD]

Two words,


plaxico burress is a effing moron..

:D:D:D

[JenBKR]

Two words,


plaxico burress is a effing moron..

:D:D:D

Oh Richard *sigh* That is SIX words! :eek: ;)

[Lady's Human]

Didn't the hidden gun of some athlete go off in his pants in a nightclub this weekend?

It wasn't a hidden gun, it was an illegal weapon.

He wasn't licensed in NYC to carry, he was carrying illegally even if he had a permit (carrying in a nightclub), and the fool shot himself evidently while showing it off to the bouncers at the club entrance.

Ya know what, though? Even though that s a mandatory minumum 3 1/2 year sentence in NYC, anyone want to place bets on how much jailtime Plax serves?

I've got $10 on 0

Which will truly show how much of a farce the 22,000 plus gun laws which are currently on the books really are.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Which will truly show how much of a farce the 22,000 plus gun laws which are currently on the books really are.

That's why just one law would be better.

And did the nightclub have a sign saying "Handgun free?"

[Marigold2]

Sounds like he was a careful guy, he was cleaning his gun. I wouldn't have a problem with him.

I'd be more worried about my kid going over to someone's house with bigoted views and brainwashing my kid.
Views can be changed, they change all the time, a bullet in the head cannot. As we grow and learn our opinions change and grow sometimes for the better and sometimes not.
I don't think guns belong in the hands of children they don't have the intellect and maturity to comprehend their actins in a long term basis, that's way the driving age is 16 and I believe it should be 18. Guns are fine in the hands of someone mature, sane and capable of controlling their anger, however add drugs, achcohol and a jealous husband or wife and it's not pretty.

[caseysmom]

The gun was in the mans hand according to your story, or was a kid running around with it?

[Marigold2]

No the gun was in his hand, however I had no way of knowing if he was new to guns or had experience, I would have the same concerns if my child was in a car with a brand new driver.
Do you have children? And is so would you be ok with them in a home with guns being cleaned if you did not know how careful or experienced a man he was?

[caseysmom]

No the gun was in his hand, however I had no way of knowing if he was new to guns or had experience, I would have the same concerns if my child was in a car with a brand new driver.
Do you have children? And is so would you be ok with them in a home with guns being cleaned if you did not know how careful or experienced a man he was?

I have two teenagers, they wouldn't be at the house if I didn't know much about the guy. Not sure why you want to know if I have children, not really any of your business.

[Marigold2]

I was just trying to understand your point of view. Parents tend to see things in a different light. No reason to get your knickers in a twist.
Not sure why you are so angry and defensive. Have some hot cocoa and a cookie.:D

[Grace]

It wasn't a hidden gun, it was an illegal weapon.

He wasn't licensed in NYC to carry, he was carrying illegally even if he had a permit (carrying in a nightclub), and the fool shot himself evidently while showing it off to the bouncers at the club entrance.

Ya know what, though? Even though that s a mandatory minumum 3 1/2 year sentence in NYC, anyone want to place bets on how much jailtime Plax serves?

I've got $10 on 0

Which will truly show how much of a farce the 22,000 plus gun laws which are currently on the books really are.

He wasn't licensed in New Jersey, either, which is where he lives. Neither the nightclub, nor the hospital reported the gun shot to the police. Seems like there may be lots of punishment to pass around.

[blue]

I am not afraid of guns. As has been said...they are inanimate. I am afraid of the people who feel the need to have a gun with them for protection.

I don't trust them. I don't trust what they will do with the gun.

Do you distrust someone legally carrying a firearm as much as someone illegally carrying a firearm? If you do not know someone is carrying legally or illegally does that make you distrust everybody while you are out in public?


If you want to have a gun in your home because of your fears of a home invasion....fine...as long as you make sure it is never stolen and used to shoot someone else who is not invading your home.

And you don't shoot someone who isn't really invading your home but just ringing the doorbell.

That your gun is not used for any purpose other than protecting your life and the life of your family.

You really dont seem to trust any gun owners.


But I emphatically do not agree I should be subjected to hidden guns in the grocery, the toy store, the gas station or the restaurant. Or anyplace else.

If a person is carrying legally you have no say in the matter do you? Why should you subjugate legal gun owners to make yourself more comfortable?


Didn't the hidden gun of some athlete go off in his pants in a nightclub this weekend?

The hammer of justice is cold comfort if you are dead.

Not a clue as far as the athlete goes.

The Hammer of Justice would be very much hot, if it fell against someone who harmed somebody I love.