"Baby Cockfight"

[ramanth]

'Baby cockfight' controversy 7:21
Police say a dad encouraged two toddlers to beat each other and caught the fight on tape. "Prime News" reports.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/11/19/pn.toddler.fight.cnn

WTH!?!? :eek: :mad:

[Sirrahsim]

Disgusting:mad:

[Medusa]

This put a knot in my stomach. What is wrong w/this guy for doing this to his own child and then videotaping it yet? The kids are scarred now and they've been taught that aggression and violence are the way to go. To think that the father got even partial custody is maddening. Trying to keep families together is admirable when it's a matter of perhaps educating the father on parenting. This case goes beyond that. He's clearly just a sperm donor; he isn't a father in any sense of the word. If I was the judge and he appeared before me, he'd never see the light of day and I'd be sure to put him where he'd be on guard and defending himself to the end of his days so that he would know what it's like to be thrust into a situation where he has no choices. I fear for the future of these children and for the children who will interact w/them.

[moosmom]

Must be a guy thing. The father is in the military. What I don't get is where was the father's brain when he egged them on. He should DEFINITELY be held accountable for his actions.

The big brother who tried to stop it should've dialed 911.

Disgusting!!:mad:

[elizabethann]

What wonderful family memories. :mad:

[Medusa]

The mother wasn't outraged enough for me. She coined the term "baby cockfight" as though she had seen it before. It's a parent's number one obligation to protect their children from danger, not to purposely create a dangerous situation and make their kids fight their way out of it.

[Cataholic]

It is wrong, no question about it. And, the parents should not be raising this child/ren.

Having said that, I do not think this is going to scar the toddlers for life. No way. Any boy that has been in a fight in grade school...and gets the poop kicked out of him, is he scarred for life? I don't think so. I think the media is just running with things for the media's sake.

[pitc9]

The sickest thing about it is that the older boy that was giving the beating was the man's son from a previous marriage.
The younger one, getting beat up is his son with his current wife that he's going through a nasty custody battle with.

So it's like he had "his" son beating up "their" son to get back at her!!

He's an ass and I hope he gets all his kids taken away from him!

[Medusa]

The sickest thing about it is that the older boy that was giving the beating was the man's son from a previous marriage.
The younger one, getting beat up is his son with his current wife that he's going through a nasty custody battle with.

So it's like he had "his" son beating up "their" son to get back at her!!

He's an ass and I hope he gets all his kids taken away from him!

And that's why I feel that he's probably scarred, not because of getting beaten up. That happens to most kids at one time or another. It's the fact that he was put in that position by his own father. His scar will be from coming to the realization of what kind of a father he has.

[lizbud]

Having said that, I do not think this is going to scar the toddlers for life. No way. Any boy that has been in a fight in grade school...and gets the poop kicked out of him, is he scarred for life? I don't think so. I think the media is just running with things for the media's sake.


I have to disagree with this statement. It's one thing to be hit by a
stranger but being beaten in your own home ,with the very people who are
supposed to be your protectors, do nothing to help you. These are very
young children & this is sure to leave emotional scars by growing up in that
kind of enviroment.

Both parents (if they were both present) should be charged with child abuse.

[lvpets2002]

:(:mad: WoW this is Sad & Disgusting.. Now I am asking where is the Parents of the child getting bet up?? I am sure they have heard about this by now.. Oh I would be just beside myself if I knew this had happened to my baby while being babysitted.. Horrifiing!!!!:mad:

[Ginger's Mom]

Yes, I totally agree with Lizbud. I would not compare two 8 year olds fighting in a school yard with a toddler being beaten in his own home while his father videotapes and encourages the action.

[Medusa]

:(:mad: WoW this is Sad & Disgusting.. Now I am asking where is the Parents of the child getting bet up?? I am sure they have heard about this by now.. Oh I would be just beside myself if I knew this had happened to my baby while being babysitted.. Horrifiing!!!!:mad:

His father was the one who started it and he videotaped it and put it on You Tube.

[Medusa]

Yes, I totally agree with Lizbud. I would not compare two 8 year olds fighting in a school yard with a toddler being beaten in his own home while his father videotapes and encourages the action.


Amen.

[lvpets2002]

His father was the one who started it and he videotaped it and put it on You Tube.

:o Well then who does the other boy belong too?? You mean to tell me that a dad wanted to tape his son being beat up & then filmed it.. Just think what will happen if in years when the child is old enough to watch the video & then Does.. Oh my that could be so devastating..

[pomtzu]

Absolutely disgusting!!!

Frankly - I just don't get it. The act itself was horrific enough - but what the h3ll could be going thru someone's mind to make them publish it on the internet???? :confused: And this certainly is no isolated case. Look at some of the others - schoolyard beatings, teens being lured by friends to their homes for a sleepover, and then one getting the crap beat out of her, the guy in Philly that had his son tape an episode of himself armed with assault rifles and giving instructions on how to kill a cop, etc, etc, etc. It just goes on and on and on.

Sometimes being old sucks - but when I see crap like this - I'm glad I'm not just starting out in this world. Where is all of this going????? Talk about man's inhumanity to man..........:(

[Medusa]

:o Well then who does the other boy belong too?? You mean to tell me that a dad wanted to tape his son being beat up & then filmed it.. Just think what will happen if in years when the child is old enough to watch the video & then Does.. Oh my that could be so devastating..

Read the post by pitc9. :)

[Cataholic]

I knew I would be disagreed with. :) I have a 4 year old, and while violence of any form is not tolerated in our home, on the street, in the school, I still don't think there will be lasting 'damage' done to the toddlers in the video.

My son can't remember falling down the steps on 3 separate occasions, within 1.5 years of each other. (well, once was more of a sliding incident, but, 2 were without question a 'fall'. I can tell you at the time he was shocked, traumatized, injured, scared of the steps, etc. No question. And, seeing me near hysterics was traumatic for him, too. BUT, today, at 4 years plus a few months, he doesn't remember these incidents...he knows they happened, as I use such extreme caution around steps with him, but, he doesn't remember it. And, I probably talked about the incidents a lot!

It is wrong, because the adults are involved, but, from the toddlers perspective, give them 6 months and something else 'traumatic' will fill the space. Just my opinion, and surely, my hope.

[sparks19]

I knew I would be disagreed with. :) I have a 4 year old, and while violence of any form is not tolerated in our home, on the street, in the school, I still don't think there will be lasting 'damage' done to the toddlers in the video.

My son can't remember falling down the steps on 3 separate occasions, within 1.5 years of each other. (well, once was more of a sliding incident, but, 2 were without question a 'fall'. I can tell you at the time he was shocked, traumatized, injured, scared of the steps, etc. No question. And, seeing me near hysterics was traumatic for him, too. BUT, today, at 4 years plus a few months, he doesn't remember these incidents...he knows they happened, as I use such extreme caution around steps with him, but, he doesn't remember it. And, I probably talked about the incidents a lot!

It is wrong, because the adults are involved, but, from the toddlers perspective, give them 6 months and something else 'traumatic' will fill the space. Just my opinion, and surely, my hope.

I agree with you.

I don't think this one incident will scar him for life.

HOWEVER, if this continues then yes.. h e will be scarred. but not from one incident that he really probably won't remember. he will be frightened for a while and probably a little guarded but like you said... something else will come along and fill that fear with something new. That is if this is an isolated incident and it doesn't happen again.

[pomtzu]

I too would like to THINK that one episode wouldn't scar him - but the thing is - do we KNOW that it is only one incident. No matter what - ONE incident is ONE TOO MANY and very capable of leaving lasting scars. :mad:

[Reachoutrescue]

As a mother of two boys....this disturbs me so much! Especially that he is in the Army! What is wrong with people??!! These poor kids are taught so young to be brutal to each other....they are going to have major issues as they get older. They are going to think that this is the way to behave and treat people....I pray it was not a reaccuring situation. I really hope this man gets prosecution!! INSANE!!!

[K9soul]

On the subject of emotionally scarring or not, I am not sure if this in particular would be a scarring event, but I think a toddler or infant can be traumatized and affected deep within their psychological development even by things they may not later remember. While thinking on it, I thought of an incident with Tasha when she was a puppy, when she was shyly approaching a man and he suddenly grabbed her by the collar and pulled her the rest of the way to him, triggering a terror response in her. From then on she tended to stay out of reach of people and got upset with stranger's hands reaching towards her, and she developed a particular mistrust of men. Surely as an adult, she would not specifically remember the event that happened as a pup, and yet psychologically it had a lasting effect on her that became instinctual. Not all pups I believe would have the same reaction, but Tasha is deeply sensitive and always has been. I suspect it depends on the individual in people as well, and the impact the action had on them.

In any case it's a shocking thing for an adult to do and I believe potentially damaging. I hope the poor kids are put into a better situation.

ETA: Have to disagree with the previous idea stated that this is a "man thing" or has anything to do with the father being in the military. Anyone can be cruel.

[Cataholic]

I was a little confused as to his current military status. Is he currently IN the military? If so, will he be dealt with by the military? And, only the military?

[Ginger's Mom]

The article I read said that he is Special Operations soldier stationed at Fort Bragg, and that the incident it being investigated by the military police and the State Child Protective Services. It also said that the command will take appropriate actions and cooperate with civilian authorities.

[Cataholic]

The article I read said that he is Special Operations soldier stationed at Fort Bragg, and that the incident it being investigated by the military police and the State Child Protective Services. It also said that the command will take appropriate actions and cooperate with civilian authorities.

Thanks. I had just found the information online and was going to edit my post when my boss had the nerve to walk in and ask me a question!!! :eek:

I also saw that the mom did not have custody, and I do wonder about the story behind the story. I gathered the toddler getting beaten and the older son trying to intervene were her children with the "father"...no idea to whom the other toddler belonged.

I would think if there is military involvement, he is in for a world of hurt.

[Lady's Human]

To say that the military frowns on child abuse would be an understatement.

If he winds up in front of a court martial board he's going to do hard time, and military prisons are a different animal than civilian prisons.

[Karen]

To say that the military frowns on child abuse would be an understatement.

If he winds up in front of a court martial board he's going to do hard time, and military prisons are a different animal than civilian prisons.

That's what I am hoping will happen.

[RICHARD]

Not to make what this guy did O.K. but it reminded me of a comedy routine that either George Lopez or Carlos Menica did- It had to do with pinatas and the kids who are involved with the tradition.

A pinata (peen-Yata) is a cardboard/newspaper/paper maiche figure, usually of the current fad or popular trend in the media, that is hollow, filled with candy and hung from a rope over an open area.

It can be tied off to a post, tree or pole, the pinata tied to the rope and the other end of the rope draped over another post or tree branch-the free end is held by an adult who can tug on that loose end to adjust the height of it.

Children are blindfolded, handed a stick, given a few spins and turned loose, to bash the crap out of Sponge Bob, Spiderman or a star that has a picture of a star on the side-I saw a few Hannah Montana pics that I would have loved to have seen bashed!

When the pinata breaks the candy goes over the floor and you get a free for all for the goodies.

The comic began to laugh at the whole thing. He brought up some points-I am paraphrasing here...

You get the 11 year old, 5'10' monster that steps on kids to get his share.
The tiny kids who get stepped on, the kids who cry because they were shoved, stepped on or didn't get enough candy. You have the parents who are either cheering the kids on to "Get in there!" or have to calm down the crying, tend to the bruises, stepped on digits. Then there are the parents who admonish the children for not being tougher and the ones with the 'Back Up Bag Of Candy' who pass it out to the less fortunate and ones who lack that Killer Kandy Instinct!

It's one of those really goofy traditions where the kids go nuts, the parents cheer on the 'bad behavior' and everyone laughs about it later on.

There is a difference in staging 'kid fights' and the pinata thing but they do resemble each other in the fact that they are a spectacle controlled and put on by adult(s).

When ever I see something like that in the media, I always think of a pinata brawl and how dumb it was to toss your kids into a group of kids that would "go gladiator" for candy.

I guess you can say that the candy thing is just for fun at a kid's party, but really, what is the difference between pitting your kids against each other for sport or candy?:rolleyes::eek::(

[ramanth]

I can't remember anything that happened to me as a toddler. Andy however, remembers having surgery at 2 years old, and the resulting trauma causes issues in our marriage.

So could the boy end up traumatized? It's quite possible. :(

[Giselle]

Purely speaking in psychological terms, children experience "childhood amnesia" up until about 3.5 years of age. While very few people can remember from about 2.5 years on, most people who claim to be able to remember events from or before 3-4 years of age are often operating with false or augmented memories. I forget if severely traumatic memories "subliminally" affect a young child in later life, but I do know that the topic of subliminal anything is very controversial with psychologists.

However, I saw parts of the video (made me ill) and the boys look to be older than 3-4... unfortunately. :(

[Medusa]

Well, if they do forget, their father so lovingly recorded it on video so that they'll have it for posterity. Then they can be reminded of the betrayal of the person who was supposed to protect them but instead thrust them right into the fray. Yay memories.

[Cataholic]

Purely speaking in psychological terms, children experience "childhood amnesia" up until about 3.5 years of age. While very few people can remember from about 2.5 years on, most people who claim to be able to remember events from or before 3-4 years of age are often operating with false or augmented memories. I forget if severely traumatic memories "subliminally" affect a young child in later life, but I do know that the topic of subliminal anything is very controversial with psychologists.

However, I saw parts of the video (made me ill) and the boys look to be older than 3-4... unfortunately. :(

I had heard that, too...the thing about people claiming to remember..that it was actually an augmented memory.

I think the kids looked about 2ish, judging by the audio and arm movements. I think Jonah could do some serious harm with his eye/hand coordination by 4....

[lizbud]

I forget if severely traumatic memories "subliminally" affect a young child in later life, but I do know that the topic of subliminal anything is very controversial with psychologists.





They do, and just because the child doesn't remember the incident, doesn't
mean that it did not affect them. It becomes part of who he is.

This was mean & it was cruel to treat children that way. I have to think
with that kind of bad judgment, this can't be the first time these kids were
treated that way, or worse.

[Catty1]

http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=114432&catid=57

Caught On Tape: NC Toddlers Encouraged To Fight
Posted by: Chelsi Zash Created: 11/20/2008 8:01:04 AM Updated: 11/20/2008 12:36:08 PM

Fort Bragg, NC -- A mother is outraged after her toddlers were caught on tape being encouraged to fight by their father.

The video shows two toddlers repeatedly slapping and punching each other. One little boy is seen crying and trying to cover up, obviously wanting the beating to stop.

The video that was originally uploaded to YouTube, is now at the center of a custody battle.

Alicia Sheideger, the children's mother, says she was horrified. "I thought it was a baby cock fight. Like somebody putting two animals up to fight each other. They're not animals, they're humans."

She confronted her ex-husband who has custody of the children at his home on post in Fort Bragg. She says that her husband told her the kids had been fighting for two days and he finally just decided to let them have at it and just not stop them.

Sheideger called Child Protective Services and the Military Police.

The army issued the following statement: "The behavior displayed by the parents in the video is neither condoned nor indicative of soldiers in this command or the army."

Sheideger says her ex-husband did lose custody of the kids, but only temporarily.

CNN

************************************************** **********************
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455086,00.html

Fort Bragg Soldier Investigated for Allegedly Videotaping Toddler Son Fighting With Another Child

Thursday, November 20, 2008

FORT BRAGG, N.C. — A Fort Bragg soldier is under investigation after a disturbing video surfaced on the Internet of his toddler son and another little boy punching and shoving each other as an unidentified man eggs them on.

The video was posted on YouTube, but later removed, The Fayetteville Observer reported Tuesday.

The video shows two small boys pushing and hitting each other while a man off-camera urges one to stay in the fight.

"Go on, hit him back. I don't care," an adult male voice can be heard saying.

At one point, one of the tots tries to crawl away, but the other one goes after him and continues punching and slapping him as the boy cries and covers himself with his arms as he tries to fend off his tiny attacker.

The unidentified father who allegedly taped the toddlers' fight is a soldier in the Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, N.C.

His ex-wife brought the video to the Army's attention, and the little boy has been removed from his care and is staying with a relative, KTLA-TV reported. Special Operations spokeswoman Carol Darby said the video is at the center of a child custody dispute.

The Army said in a prepared statement that it was cooperating with other authorities and didn't condone the soldier's actions.

"The behavior displayed by the parents in the video is neither condoned nor indicative of soldiers in this command or the Army," the statement read. "This command will take the appropriate actions as required and will continue to cooperate with civilian agencies."

Click here (http://www.military.com/news/article/soldier-allegedly-taped-toddler-fight.html) for more on this story from Military.com.

[JenBKR]

They do, and just because the child doesn't remember the incident, doesn't
mean that it did not affect them. It becomes part of who he is.

This was mean & it was cruel to treat children that way. I have to think
with that kind of bad judgment, this can't be the first time these kids were
treated that way, or worse.

That was my exact thoughts - I doubt that this was an isolated incident. I think that the father needs some serious help, and his son should be taken away from him before he can do any more damage.

[Cataholic]

Something still confuses me...if the two toddlers are both this women's...which I guess is possible, maybe they are Irish twins???...why would only ONE of the children be removed from the home?

[JenBKR]

Something still confuses me...if the two toddlers are both this women's...which I guess is possible, maybe they are Irish twins???...why would only ONE of the children be removed from the home?

hmm...I didn't realize that they both had the same mother...I guess I just assumed that they had different parents. They looked to me to be about the same age, although it was kind of hard to tell. Maybe two different fathers? I don't know...

[lizbud]

Something still confuses me...if the two toddlers are both this women's...which I guess is possible, maybe they are Irish twins???...why would only ONE of the children be removed from the home?


Off topic:

You do know how offensive the term "Irish Twins" really is don't you?
Do you also use "Tar Baby" & "Wetback" in conversation? With your education,
I think you could do better than that.

[Cataholic]

Off topic:

You do know how offensive the term "Irish Twins" really is don't you?
Do you also use "Tar Baby" & "Wetback" in conversation? With your education,
I think you could do better than that.

No, I don't know how offensive the term "Irish twins" really is. I have heard people say it, in referring to their own children. I don't see a single thing offensive about it, obviously, or I would never have said it.

Sheesh, Liz...go find another target, would you? I don't do to well with the bullying thing. I should keep a record of every time you decide to get in another dig at me. If only I knew where the whole thing started I could attempt to go back and rectify it. I don't. And, since it has been going on for at least a year now, frankly, I am not that interested in searching it out.

Really, the whole thing with you is somewhat ironic. How ever could you justify a personal attack on me- as outlined above- for something you percieve as me insulting an entire country of people? I suppose I should now say something like it must be your lack of education?

[pomtzu]

And Christmas is just around the corner..................


TIS THE SEASON TO BE JOLLY

And I guess we could throw in "Love Thy Neighbor" - just for good measure!

[lizbud]

No, I don't know how offensive the term "Irish twins" really is. I have heard people say it, in referring to their own children. I don't see a single thing offensive about it, obviously, or I would never have said it.





It is derogatory slang that slurs Irish Catholic Moms & I find it offensive.

[Cataholic]

It is derogatory slang that slurs Irish Catholic Moms & I find it offensive.


Then, perhaps, you state that- WITHOUT slamming me. To somehow associate that phrase, and my use of it, with the other terms you suggested is pretty far stretched. How my education came into play is anyone's guess. I don't think you truly need a lesson on how education, upbringing and bias are not truly related, do you? The most educated can be prejudiced, and the most uneducated can be non-biased. To me, if you truly had doubt as to my intentions (which I doubt very much), you could only think of what I have posted in the last, what, 6 years, and say, "well, I can't really remember her ever speaking in a racist tone before, maybe I misunderstood her intentions?". Course, that isn't near as much fun as slamming me, is it?

I might add, off topic, that the term was used as a derogatory slang, two decades ago. It is a term, today, frequently used to describe anyone's children- regardless of race, creed or national origin, that came within 12 months of one another. Go check out a few parenting boards, or, even a twins board. The term is used more benignly that you have suggested. In fact, the struggle with the term today is that 12 months is too restrictive, and the phrase should apply to those with children born within 15 months of one another. Who would have thunk, eh?

Apparently, the most current trend is to call them "Palin Twins" based on Sarah Palin's opinions on abstinance and sex education.

In any event, you have every right to be offended, but, not to be offensive.

[pomtzu]

So I'm Italian and have been called a "WOP". Do I get offended and retaliate with more name calling or slurs??? - nope - why should I? I really think some people are overly sensitive and easily offended over trivial matters - really pretty darned thin-skinned IMO!!! Get upset over something that really matters - like the subject of this thread!!!

[sparks19]

So I'm Italian and have been called a "WOP". Do I get offended and retaliate with more name calling or slurs??? - nope - why should I? I really think some people are overly sensitive and easily offended over trivial matters - really pretty darned thin-skinned IMO!!! Get upset over something that really matters - like the subject of this thread!!!

This is way off topic but you just reminded me....

We used to rent a cottage every year in northern ontario and there was this restaurant owned by a frenchman and an italian and it was called... get this....

The Wop and Frog restaurant lol and the logo was a grog with a big black mustache and a puffy white chefs hat on LOL

[pomtzu]

The Wop and Frog restaurant lol and the logo was a grog with a big black mustache and a puffy white chefs hat on LOL

:D And I'm sure no one was ever offended by it! :D

[sparks19]

:D And I'm sure no one was ever offended by it! :D

LOL nope. it was quite the hopping place... no pun intended :p

I really wish I had gotten a picture of the sign. They sold it a few years ago to a new owner.

[lizbud]

Sheesh, Liz...go find another target, would you? I don't do to well with the bullying thing. I should keep a record of every time you decide to get in another dig at me. If only I knew where the whole thing started I could attempt to go back and rectify it. I don't. And, since it has been going on for at least a year now, frankly, I am not that interested in searching it out.




Johanna, I honestly have no clue what you are talking about when you
say this.:confused:

I have no intention of dragging this on & on,etc.but I really would like
to know why you feel this way. Can we take this to pm? If not, okay, but
I would like to hear.

[Cataholic]

Johanna, I honestly have no clue what you are talking about when you
say this.:confused:

I have no intention of dragging this on & on,etc.but I really would like
to know why you feel this way. Can we take this to pm? If not, okay, but
I would like to hear.


Sure..but I won't be too available for a few days.

[lizbud]

Sure..but I won't be too available for a few days.


No problem. Look forward to talking with you when you have more time.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The things I miss! Sad, sad, sad....but not terribly surprising. Violence begets violence.