Sex vs Violence

[finn's mom]

Maybe someone out there can help me see a different perspective on this. I just posted in the "movies you watched today" thread, and it got me thinking about this...

Just saw "Zack and Miri Make a Porno." I can totally see why many, many people would never go to see it. First of all, the title itself could be very off-putting. And, then the movie...well, it's a Kevin Smith film in every sense. It's raunchy, vulgar and foul. I LOVED IT.

What confuses me is this...some guy in Salt Lake City, Utah banned it from being shown in his theaters. You know, that's fine. He also banned "Brokeback Mountain" and apparently later regretted that decision.

My problem is not so much that he's banned this film because it has nudity (brief full frontal for one man and one woman and lots of T & A throughout) and is brutal in it's use of language (I would be interested to know how many times the F-bomb is dropped in this flick!).

My issue stems from the fact that he did not ban "Saw V."

Someone...please...explain to me why it's ok for people to watch ultra violence (beheadings, self tracheotomies with ball point pens, bodies getting cut in two, self mutilation, etc...and that's just in this installment of the series!), but it's not ok for people to see someones privates.

I know they have to be out there...people who would rather their child see death than sex. Just like I know there are people out there who rubberneck at accidents on the side of the highway. But, I haven't met a single person who will admit to it.

Personally, I would rather my child not see either. But, honestly, if I had to chose, I'd rather my kid see full blown porn than to see the battle scenes in "300" or "Gladiator."

The only reason I can think of is that sex is more accessible than ultra violence. But, still...that's pretty far fetched to me. I don't know...this is just something I've always wondered about. Again...call me weird, but I'd rather my kid go to bed dreaming of naked people than go to bed having nightmares about terrorists and beheadings.

[blue]

I think it all comes down to American Culture from the very begining. We had a very violent and prudish start.

[finn's mom]

I think it all comes down to American Culture from the very begining. We had a very violent and prudish start.


Point taken, but I'd like to hear how individuals feel. Because again, I have only heard from people who agree that sex is the lesser of the two evils (as far as a child viewing a film).

I'd like to hear from someone who, if given a choice, would set their child in front of a TV playing the video of the American getting beheaded instead of in front of the Pam Anderson/Tommy Lee sex tape.

I'm typically a very compassionate, empathetic person, and I'm good at at least trying to see other perspectives...but there are just some things I can't fathom.

[RICHARD]

Here's a perspective.


How many times will you see a totally nude human, as opposed to the entrail of a guy hacked to death with a potato peeler?

There is something more farfetched about a 'rollicking' good slasher movie than there is about nudies running about on the screen.

Both subjects are viceral to some people, but I am sure we are more phobic about sex than we are about murder.

You are more apt to go home and knock boots with your SO, than gut him like a catfish with your letter opener.

---------------

People choose to go with the lesser evil- they will not waste the time to monitor what they or their kids watch.

When you name a movie, as this one was-with porn in the title, the chips will fall where they may. This kinda goes back to the arguement about SNL being funny anymore.

If you get an actor to appear naked in a movie, you don't have to worry about a script. If you can make 5 Saw movies and keep finding ways to kill people you don't have to worry about a script.

It really depends on what offends, what sells and how much money you want to make.:confused:

[finn's mom]

How many times will you see a totally nude human, as opposed to the entrail of a guy hacked to death with a potato peeler?

There is something more farfetched about a 'rollicking' good slasher movie than there is about nudies running about on the screen.






Point taken. And that is the only "argument" I could see, as I stated in the last paragraph in my original post.

And, years ago, I would be 100% down with that perspective. And, it could be just another one of those things that the media has chosen to cover more of...but seems to me that children are commiting more violent crimes than they ever have in history. Again, that type of crime might not actually be more, and I've just fallen prey to the media blowing trends out of proportion for ratings or whatever...Still not as likely to kill someone as they are to have sex with someone, but it does seem like it's "on the rise."

And, I'm also not saying at all that I think movies or video games cause people to be violent, that's a whole separate thread. ;)

[Cataholic]

FM- I haven't seen any of the movies you referenced in the first post. I am not sure I had heard of any of them, either. :o

I have found, as I have 'matured' (at least chronologically, right?) that most of the violent movies are totally offensive to me. I can't bear to watch them. In fact, after having my son, I even find some fictional writing to be totally offensive, and I was a HUGE murder/mystery/crime genre buff before.

Maybe the fact that the banning took place in SLC holds the answer?

[Karen]

First of all, parents can choose which films their children see up to a certain age - when they get a driver's license, then things change, but by then, let us hope they have had some responsible education from some source about both sex and violence. But no one sees either kind of film by "accident," and it's not like there's any danger of a 6-year-old being let in to either movie.

I don't see any point in banning either movie. It just gives the film more attention than it would otherwise get, anyway.

[beeniesmom]

My folks used to let me watch anything (with them) when I was a kid and I think I turned out normal. :p
I wasn't promiscuous as a teen or violent, etc.

I do have to say though that I agree with you Kari. If I have kids I'd much rather let them see movies with sex scenes than gory violence.

I can still remember violent scenes from movies I saw as opposed the sex scenes. Those violent scenes made a stronger "impression" on my mind if that makes any sense.

I agree with Karen too. No sense in banning movies or books for that matter.

[lizbud]

Actually I would prefer my young chidren see neither sexy, or violent films.

There are plenty of films to chose from, learn from & enjoy.

[finn's mom]

FM- I haven't seen any of the movies you referenced in the first post. I am not sure I had heard of any of them, either. :o

Well, Zack and Miri is a raunchy romantic comedy, with a unique sense of humor. Saw V is the fifth installment in a series of absolutely horriflicly graphic movies (I saw the first one and was so turned off by the crappy acting that I've never seen any of the others). Basically, they are both extreme in their categories.




Maybe the fact that the banning took place in SLC holds the answer?

It holds the answer to why he banned Zack & Miri, and that doesn't befuddle me...but if you're going to ban that, it seems hypocritical that you wouldn't ban Saw V.

[finn's mom]

Actually I would prefer my young chidren see neither sexy, or violent films.

There are plenty of films to chose from, learn from & enjoy.

Yeah, same here...Again, I'm still waiting to hear from a parent or guardian who would prefer their child see gory ultra violence as opposed to sex scenes. It seems, based on situations like sexy movies getting banned, but gory movies not...that the majority of people are more offended by sex than violence...I still haven't actually met someone who will talk to me about it, though!

[Twisterdog]

I completely agree - I have always wondered about the sex vs. violence slant in the USA. I have always thought it extremely odd that people will gleefully watch a human body being shot, stabbed, beaten, blown up, sawed to pieces ... but people think viewing a naked human body is sinful and evil. :confused:

Personally, I refuse to watch violence at all, if I can avoid it. I have no use for that in my life at all. A gory murder or torture scene in a movie is incredibly disturbing to me. And while I don't watch pornography, a sex scene in a movie does not disturb me in the least. Nudity either ... we all have a body.

I did not let me son watch anything remotely violent or sexual when he was young. Those topics are not for children, period, IMO. However, now that he is seventeen and can watch what he chooses ... I would MUCH rather have him going to see a movie with naked women in it, than a movie glorifying violence.

Sex is a normal activity that all human beings are going to participate in. Violence is an abhorrent activity that we all hope never happens to us or anyone we know. So, which one should we be more concerned about watching? Hmmm...

I also agree that no movie or book should be banned, for adults. Free country. We should all be free to make our own choices about what we view. I just find the choice that we as a society seem to be making disturbing.

[sparks19]

I don't know....

I grew up being allowed to watch just about anything. I was and still am a horror flick junkie. by the age of 11 I think I had seen just about every horror flick out there lol.

I wasn't sheltered from sexual scenes.... although I was usually watching movies with my parents and having a "sex scene" was sometimes incredibly uncomfortable lmao even though my mom and I would openly talk about sex.

and I don't think I am a violent hateful, sex crazed adult.

I don't think that movies or video games make kids violent or sexual deviants. I think it's lack of education and lack of parental involvement that results in this.

[RICHARD]

I don't think that movies or video games make kids violent or sexual deviants. I think it's lack of education and lack of parental involvement that results in this.


I think VVGs deaden (pun intended) the person to seeing violence and reacting to it. Now, I do think that the kids that start off being "tilted" end up getting tipped over when they are exposed to violent stuff.

You do have a 90-95% group of normal people who are exposed to VVGs and the normal amount of 'sex' in the media-you have to remember also that a Calvin Klein/A&F/Vic's Secret are the norm for everyday advertising. Hacker movies/horror scenes are more sought out than being adverted on a billboard.

The 5%ers are the ones that have a problem with sex and murder movies. I have always had a problem watching a sex scene with any kids or parents in the room.

Before a good horror movie or romantic flick had implied scenes where you didn't see too much of anything. Now it's anything goes.

go figure?

[finn's mom]

I don't know....

I grew up being allowed to watch just about anything. I was and still am a horror flick junkie. by the age of 11 I think I had seen just about every horror flick out there lol.

I wasn't sheltered from sexual scenes.... although I was usually watching movies with my parents and having a "sex scene" was sometimes incredibly uncomfortable lmao even though my mom and I would openly talk about sex.

and I don't think I am a violent hateful, sex crazed adult.

I don't think that movies or video games make kids violent or sexual deviants. I think it's lack of education and lack of parental involvement that results in this.


I agree with you. I have watched all of it, and have not been negatively affected by it as far as my function in daily life. I will say that I'm probably more desensitized. Of course, I still cry when one of my fish dies. So I'm not really desensitized much, either.

I don't think that movies or games make kids crazy, either...

Maybe you're not really directing this at my original post, but I wasn't making that point...just wondering why it seems like people are ok with ultra violence but nudity. ;)

[sparks19]

I agree with you. I have watched all of it, and have not been negatively affected by it as far as my function in daily life. I will say that I'm probably more desensitized. Of course, I still cry when one of my fish dies. So I'm not really desensitized much, either.

I don't think that movies or games make kids crazy, either...

Maybe you're not really directing this at my original post, but I wasn't making that point...just wondering why it seems like people are ok with ultra violence but nudity. ;)

Yeah I don't really get that either. I don't think one is owrse than the other.

But if I have to venture a guess... I think it's that a lot of parents don't want to have "the talk" with their kids. They want to leave it up to the schools to teach and there is a lot of controversy about what the schools should teach.

[sumbirdy]

When I have kids I'd rather them watch the violent than sex. My reason? Violent movies can be a teaching mechanism (See that? That's NOT okay. Ect.... But of course, watch a Disney flick afterwards so they have no nightmares. lol) Sex, on the other hand is natural, God meant for it to happen, but it's not something I'd want to expose my child to until a certain age.

It just seems like to me, I'd rather over expose my kids to something where I can say "that's wrong" and teach them, than over expose them to something that really isn't wrong, so I can't tell them that, and they grow up (in EXTREME cases, NOT saying this happens in anything but 0.05% of people) to be pervs and rape people or are sex addicts because they've had an overexposure to sex.

I know most of this probably doesn't make sense to you. It makes sense in my head I just can't find the words to express it the way I want. lol.

[finn's mom]

When I have kids I'd rather them watch the violent than sex. My reason? Violent movies can be a teaching mechanism (See that? That's NOT okay. Ect.... But of course, watch a Disney flick afterwards so they have no nightmares. lol) Sex, on the other hand is natural, God meant for it to happen, but it's not something I'd want to expose my child to until a certain age.

It just seems like to me, I'd rather over expose my kids to something where I can say "that's wrong" and teach them, than over expose them to something that really isn't wrong, so I can't tell them that, and they grow up (in EXTREME cases, NOT saying this happens in anything but 0.05% of people) to be pervs and rape people or are sex addicts because they've had an overexposure to sex.

I know most of this probably doesn't make sense to you. It makes sense in my head I just can't find the words to express it the way I want. lol.

It makes sense, thank you. The only part I disagree with is using a violent film to teach "wrong" to, unless it's a film like American History X. There's a lesson to be learned from that film. But, ultra violent movies like the Saw movies, or most slasher movies, I guess I just don't see the lesson there (unless you just want to say, before the movie, "everything that happens in this movie is wrong, don't ever put your head in a guillotine...now enjoy!").

[Twisterdog]

But, ultra violent movies like the Saw movies, or most slasher movies, I guess I just don't see the lesson there (unless you just want to say, before the movie, "everything that happens in this movie is wrong, don't ever put your head in a guillotine...now enjoy!").

I agree. I do not think children need to sit and watch two hours of torture, murder and dismemberment in order to get the message, "Now, Junior, cutting off someone's limbs with a chain saw is naughty, don't do it."

[jennielynn1970]

and I don't think I am a violent hateful, sex crazed adult.



nah.... you're just Canadian (hrm... which is worse?! :p ;) ).

[jennielynn1970]

I think it depends on the culture as well. Here we condone the violent movies, yet most movies involving sex, or heaven forbid a MALE full frontal (sorry, but I'm for equal opportunity full frontals) are edited for the US.

Back in 1987 and 1988, I studied overseas in Stockholm, Sweden. I went to a bunch of movie openings (which were a HUGE deal over there). There were many violent films banned in Sweden. Robocop, for example. We saw that on a bootleg tape. Other violent films were edited and you missed about 45 mins. of the film.

Sex films, on the other hand, were not edited. I watched Angel Heart over there, with Lisa Bonet, and holy cow!!! I saw scenes that we did not have in it over here when I saw it later at home.


I'm not saying I think we should have more sex or more violent films, just saying how cultures differ. I do think that if there are going to be sex scenes, and they are showing the body nude, they should give equal opportunity to both male and female. Sorry, but it pisses me off that they will show almost every part of a woman's body, yet heaven forbid they dip below the navel on a man. What is that all about?! OOOH... we'll just get soooo turned on, we won't know what to do with ourselves or what? Do they think women are too delicate to see that, or is it just that they like to objectify women? It so annoys me.

I am not a big fan of scary movies. I live alone, and those movies freak me out. I get nightmares like crazy even with silly shows sometimes. Ever watch "Taboo" on Nat. Geo?? Holy crap, some of that stuff is just crazy! Still gives me nightmares with some of the freaky stuff, and the stuff they eat makes me sick to my stomach usually.

[sumbirdy]

I agree. I do not think children need to sit and watch two hours of torture, murder and dismemberment in order to get the message, "Now, Junior, cutting off someone's limbs with a chain saw is naughty, don't do it."



That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about the less violent movies (you know, guns and fighting) There's NO WAY I would sit a kid in front of a really gory movie, nor would I sit them in front of a show full of sex.

My earlier explanation of why I would choose violence over sex stems from personal experience. My aunt and uncle have three children (two boys and a girl) who they exposed to both types of movies. None of them were violent, but the girl decided she wanted to be a prostitute-at the age of three. She would go up to complete strangers and say "For 20 bucks you can have the whole night"