A discussion of Faith

[DJFyrewolf36]

Its 12:53 am...the usual time when engage in philosophical thought. I'm posting this here because of the sensitive nature of the topic. I don't want to turn this into an arguement over who is right or not. I'm intending for this to be a discussion of how faiths are similar. I have an idea rattling around in my brain and I'm hoping I can test my theory in a setting where a civil ;) discussion can take place between people that range over a broad spectrum of backgrounds and lifestyles.
In particular I was looking at 1st Corinthians Chapter 13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=13)and thinking about the subject of love and how it is discribed in various religious works.
I believe love is one of the most, if not the most powerful force in the universe. Think about what love can do (or undo!). Anyone else have any thoughts, ideas?
Remember, please keep the discussion civil, we are talking about love after all. :D

[smokey the elder]

There was a similar thread to this a few years ago. I tried to find it but probably didn't put the right search parameters. The title went something like "What's your religion-let's learn" and went on for quite awhile.

Anyway, I think of myself as more "spiritual" than "religious"; I find organized religion too "canned" for my taste. It seems to limit or attempt to quantitate a Supreme Being, which is IMO infinite.

I think Someone or Something created the Universe, but that there are rules that we can figure out over time. This doesn't make me a believer in creationism or intelligent design per se; these seem to be in conflict with science, and I am a chemist by training, inclination and trade. The very best guess at the beginning of the Universe (the Big Bang) implies creation. But who, how or why is anyone's guess.

In terms of "love", it seems most faiths have a version of the Christian Golden Rule. I remember I was at a friend's house and saw a poster with this rule for at least 20 different religions. Loving one's neighbor, or at least being able to coexist, is a requirement of a civilized human being, IMO.

[Catty1]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm


Shared belief in the "Golden Rule"
(a/k.a. Ethics of Reciprocity)

Some "Ethic of Reciprocity" passages from the religious texts of various religions and secular beliefs:

* Bahá'í Faith:
o "Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah
o "And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." Epistle to the Son of the Wolf
* Brahmanism: "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "
* Buddhism:
o "...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353
o Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18
* Christianity:
o "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version.
o "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.
o "...and don't do what you hate...", Gospel of Thomas 6. The Gospel of Thomas is one of about 40 gospels that were widely accepted among early Christians, but which never made it into the Christian Scriptures (New Testament).
* Confucianism:
o "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23
o "Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3
o "Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4
* Ancient Egyptian:
o "Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to 1970 to 1640 BCE and may be the earliest version ever written. 3
* Hinduism:
o This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517
* Humanism:
o "(5) Humanists acknowledge human interdependence, the need for mutual respect and the kinship of all humanity."
o "(11) Humanists affirm that individual and social problems can only be resolved by means of human reason, intelligent effort, critical thinking joined with compassion and a spirit of empathy for all living beings. " 4
o "Don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you, British Humanist Society. 3
* Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths." 5
* Jainism:
o "Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so." Acarangasutra 5.101-2.
o "In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara
o "A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated. "Sutrakritanga 1.11.33
* Judaism:
o "...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18
o "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
o "And what you hate, do not do to any one." Tobit 4:15 6
* Native American Spirituality:
o "Respect for all life is the foundation." The Great Law of Peace.
o "All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One." Black Elk
o "Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself." Pima proverb.
* Roman Pagan Religion: "The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."
* Shinto:
o "The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form"
o "Be charitable to all beings, love is the representative of God." Ko-ji-ki Hachiman Kasuga
* Sikhism:
o Compassion-mercy and religion are the support of the entire world". Japji Sahib
o "Don't create enmity with anyone as God is within everyone." Guru Arjan Devji 259
o "No one is my enemy, none a stranger and everyone is my friend." Guru Arjan Dev : AG 1299
* Sufism: "The basis of Sufism is consideration of the hearts and feelings of others. If you haven't the will to gladden someone's heart, then at least beware lest you hurt someone's heart, for on our path, no sin exists but this." Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh, Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order.
* Taoism:
o "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien.
o "The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 49
* Unitarian:
"The inherent worth and dignity of every person;"
"Justice, equity and compassion in human relations.... "
"The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;"
"We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part." Unitarian principles. 7,8
* Wicca: "An it harm no one, do what thou wilt" (i.e. do what ever you will, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself). One's will is to be carefully thought out in advance of action. This is called the Wiccan Rede
* Yoruba: (Nigeria): "One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."
* Zoroastrianism:
o "That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself". Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5
o "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others." Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29

Some philosophers' statements are:

* Epictetus: "What you would avoid suffering yourself, seek not to impose on others." (circa 100 CE)
* Kant: "Act as if the maxim of thy action were to become by thy will a universal law of nature."
* Plato: "May I do to others as I would that they should do unto me." (Greece; 4th century BCE)
* Socrates: "Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you." (Greece; 5th century BCE)
* Seneca: "Treat your inferiors as you would be treated by your superiors," Epistle 47:11 (Rome; 1st century CE)

Examples from moral/ethical systems are:

* Humanism: "...critical intelligence, infused by a sense of human caring, is the best method that humanity has for resolving problems. Reason should be balanced with compassion and empathy and the whole person fulfilled." Humanist Manifesto II; Ethics section.
* Scientology: "20: Try to treat others as you would want them to treat you." This is one of the 21 moral precepts that form the moral code explained in L. Ron Hubbard's booklet "The Way to Happiness."

Exceptions to the Ethic of Reciprocity:

* A few religions, such as Satanism and The Creativity Movement have what might be called an Ethic of Non-Reciprocity.
* There are some situations in which a strict application of the Ethic of Reciprocity is contraindicated because it can lead to harming others.
* Within the Holy Books of many religions, there are passages which contradict their own Ethic of Reciprocity. This usually happens when non-believers in the dominant religion are discussed. The Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) for example contains:
o Depictions of genocides against non-Hebrews,
o Laws requiring execution of sorcerers, male homosexuals and non-virgin brides,
o Accounts of the torture and rape of prisoners of war.

[DJFyrewolf36]

Thank you Catty! Very educational indeed!

In my opinion the fact that religions of the earth are at all similar implies that we all have a collective conciousness of some type. To me, that sort of thing just doesn't happen on its own.

I remember the religion discussion thread...I tried finding it but had no luck either (anyone else want to give it a go?) I like having faith based discussions because I feel that discussions of that nature tend to bring people closer together (so long as the discussions remain discussions and dont turn into arguements)

Anyone else want to throw something out there?