What do you base your political decisions on?

[Giselle]

I'm a little discouraged. Every day, I hear of folks who keep switching who they plan to vote for or decide to abstain from voting altogether ---- all based on info interpreted by the media.


And, honestly, I find this incredibly upsetting. The media rarely presents the full story. They often take the most trivial details and sensationalize it to the point of an exaggerated rumor. I know the media is having a field day with McCain's recent admission that he doesn't know how many houses he has. Umm...who actually listened to the rest of the sentence? Who actually paid attention to the context of the question and the answer? And who immediately disliked McCain due to this small trivial detail?

Sometimes, I wonder: Exactly WHAT do people base their political decisions on? Are they ever rational?

(I'm almost afraid to ask... Has anybody ever even read Obama's and McCain's books?)

[IRescue452]

This election is age and how much of a religious nutcase you are.

Age because I'm so sick of hearing solutions for FAMILIES that are struggling, and old people. What about the young adults who don't have a family yet? Lately, with all the economic solutions they've been trying, I feel that the welfare myth is true. The myth being that if you have a dozen kids and drop out of high school and don't even try to get a job, you'll get a free ride. People like me who did not marry and have kids at age 16, instead tried going to college and find they still can't get a good job, we're screwed. There is not a program in the world to help us. And its not just me whining about me, there are thousands like me. I worked this summer with several college graduates who can't yet find a career. I figure the younger candidate is closer to the age of todays young adults who are struggling, and maybe more likely to help better.

Religious nutcase speaks for itself. I could see one of the candidates (guess which one) in a KKK uniform chanting "Christians and Whites! Christians and Whites!". He scares me. He's like the jesus camp people.

Honestly, I don't like any of them. I think we need a whole new set to choose from.

[Pam]

This election is age and how much of a religious nutcase you are.

Age because I'm so sick of hearing solutions for FAMILIES that are struggling, and old people. What about the young adults who don't have a family yet? Lately, with all the economic solutions they've been trying, I feel that the welfare myth is true. The myth being that if you have a dozen kids and drop out of high school and don't even try to get a job, you'll get a free ride. People like me who did not marry and have kids at age 16, instead tried going to college and find they still can't get a good job, we're screwed. There is not a program in the world to help us. And its not just me whining about me, there are thousands like me. I worked this summer with several college graduates who can't yet find a career. I figure the younger candidate is closer to the age of todays young adults who are struggling, and maybe more likely to help better.

Religious nutcase speaks for itself. I could see one of the candidates (guess which one) in a KKK uniform chanting "Christians and Whites! Christians and Whites!". He scares me. He's like the jesus camp people.

WOW! There's a lot of venom in your post, not to mention the face that it is totally offensive to those of us who are Christians.

[IRescue452]

This shouldn't offend normal Christians, it should only offend those people who believe in killing in the name of their religion and oppression in the name of their religion. If you are one of those people I'm sorry you have to be, but if you are a Christian who is not like that, than you've got nothing to be offended by. As I said, he makes me think of the crazy nutcase Christians that don't believe I have a right to live.

[Pam]

This shouldn't offend normal Christians, it should only offend those people who believe in killing in the name of their religion and oppression in the name of their religion. If you are one of those people I'm sorry you have to be, but if you are a Christian who is not like that, than you've got nothing to be offended by. As I said, he makes me think of the crazy nutcase Christians that don't believe I have a right to live.

You'd better do a little more research on Christianity. I have no idea what you are talking about. :confused: I am sorry but you are really "out there!"

[pomtzu]

This election is age and how much of a religious nutcase you are.

Age because I'm so sick of hearing solutions for FAMILIES that are struggling, and old people.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee!!! Someday you just might have a family, and you definitely will get old!!!
You need to try living on Social Security for a while. Believe me - it's not easy street. I had to retire on disability at 62 and could not get Medicare for 2 years after that. And out of my big (ha-ha) Social Security check I had to pay my own medical insurance for those 2 years to the tune of almost $500 per month - not to mention the car payment, insurance, mortgage, utilities - and oh yes - food - and any other expenses that might crop up. The expenses far outweighed the income and fortunately I had a small nestegg (very small) to draw from. Some seniors don't even have that!!! I should have been an illegal alien in this country since they fare far much better. Be thankful for what you have and pray that when you have a family and when you are old, things will be rosy for you!

[rosethecopycat]

Ahh, back to the question.

Q: What do you base your political decisions on?

A: The candidate that best represents the tenets of the Constitution.
A candidate the supports: freedom, liberty and security.

A: A candidate the supports the Free Market economy, and does not support Socialist causes.

A: A candidate that supports Free Enterprise, and does not condone Nationalization

I listen to what comes out of candidates own mouths- Note to candidate Obama: a windfall profit tax (on oil) IS a seizure.
What right does government have to seize funds from private companies? Even it is "Big Oil" (computer companies realize higher profit rates, why not them too) Jimmy Carter did this, and what good became of it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_profits_tax


Note Maxine Waters (D-CA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUaY3LhJ-IQ

A: I base my political decisions on the belief that I will oppose that which is furthest from my viewpoint. Liberalism is closer to Socialism, Communism and Marxism than Conservatism or Libertarianism is. My viewpoint is Libertarian.

A: I do not base my political decisions on social issues such as:
abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, global warming, death penalty, or how many houses a candidate owns, etc.

A: I base my political decisions on who will best stand for a small national government, that will get out of the way and let the people thrive.

[caseysmom]

Okay sorry to go off track again but IRRESCUE I am a democrat but I find some of your statements pretty offensive, you are implying you could picture McCain in a KKK robe???? What is that based on?

I actually think McCain is a decent human being, he adopted an orphan from bangladesh and he has a ton of pets he can't be all bad, was that just because he is white or what?

What I base my vote on, well yes I did read Obama's book, to be honest I didn't know McCain had a book, I think its time for a change basically and I am against the war and hope a democrat will be also.

[Grace]

My decisions this time around will be based on, and not necessarily in this specific order -

1. the disaster in Iraq
2. the economy
3. the Supreme Court
4. The Constitution of the United States

[IRescue452]

Yes, I'll get old one day. I'm not saying old people and families don't need help. I know they do. But so do other categories of people. There are plenty more categories out there that get nothing.

And I think you are the one who needs to research things like Jesus camp, Pam. If you don't know what I'm talking about. I know plenty about Christianity. I went to a Christian college and I've been ordained. If you could step into the shoes of a person who is a member of several minority groups, you'd be scared all the time too. Its especially the religious nuts who drive hate crimes, and McCain just reminds me of one of them. So he adopted a trophy orphan from Bangladesh. Do you think he'd have done that if he were a regular Joe Schmo not in the limelight?

Obama's no great guy either. He doesn't believe in equality, he believe's in seperate but [un]equal for some groups. Hello modern black Jim Crow.

[RockyRoad]

(I'm almost afraid to ask... Has anybody ever even read Obama's and McCain's books?)

I have read two of John McCain`s books, which were both quite excellent. He is a stand up character, and I would never, ever even dare to picture him in a KKK outfit. :eek: I have not read any of Senator Obama`s books, although I intend to. Regardless of political views, I like to educate myself on the candidates. After all, there is always the chance that the one you do not support is elected, and it is nice to know about them and how they stand as well.

I echo everything that rosethecopycat mentioned; well said. This is the first time I will be voting, and have been tracking this race since day one. I have made my decision already, but I have made it based upon my beliefs. My main reasons for my decision were the Iraq war and economical issues, not social issues. I do have my views on those issues, but I think the former two fronts are more important right now than the latter.

I quite agree with you, that sometimes people base their opinions on such trivial things such as the thing with Senator McCain`s houses. The media is definitely a large part of it; highlighting rumors and small mistakes about the candidates that override what they stand for. The media rarely ever presents one hundred percent of anything to the public, regardless of political view ("conservative" station, "liberal" station, whatever).

[RICHARD]

I have to go large on this because of the OIL COMPANIES


I am up night late-insomnia and the radio-talk shows mostly.

Recently I got caught up in a talk show and the two guys that host it are the straightest shooting pair I have ever heard.

(It's called the Midnight Radio Network or MRN)

They broke down exactly how much money that the oil companies make per gallon.....8 cents.

Out of 4-3.50 dollars a gallon they make a nickel and three pennies! Why?
Go to the pump and look at the breakdown of state, local and government taxes per gallon.

Then think of the exploration, studies, drilling, pumping, transport of a barrel of oil, then look at what the company needs to do with keeping up the platforms, derricks and delivery systems as far as preventive mainanence goes.

----

I don't really care for either candidate, but do not put more of an economic burden on the companies. It comes down to our lazy effing arses. We have been talking about ecology and the earth since Rachel Carson in the late 70's,
And what have we done?

Nothing. Those stupid commercials were the parents are on a TV screen telling their children about some legacy to clean up the earth....what a crock of crap.

No one cares.

And it brings me to the war effort in the 40's. We had people growing gardens, recycling, rationing to fight a war. It didn't kill us, it gave us the power to believe in ourselves and win the war.

THese days we could do the same thing - really ration, recycle and get over our 'oil addiction'. But we have too many bleeding hearts and morons that believe a few oil rigs will kill the polar bears, whales, seals.


We didn't do anything before -ten years ago, so ten years from today we'll be in the same s hole that we are in now, except worse.

---------

So, How do I make my political decisions?

I go for the candidate that doesn't make that many mid course corrections to win a vote.

The first idiot that uses the line about having to wait ten years for drilling in the U.S. to be productive has no vision for the future or desire to help us out now.

We can only prepare for the future by starting to do something today.

-------

Oh and talk about racists!

Maxine Waters is nothing but a hack, race baiter and moron.


I know because I live in Cah Lee Fuh Nee ah!

[pomtzu]

I went to a Christian college and I've been ordained. If you could step into the shoes of a person who is a member of several minority groups, you'd be scared all the time too. Its especially the religious nuts who drive hate crimes, and McCain just reminds me of one of them. So he adopted a trophy orphan from Bangladesh. Do you think he'd have done that if he were a regular Joe Schmo not in the limelight?



Ordained as what? - and did they teach to judge a book by it's cover? McCain reminds you of a religious nut and you can picture him in KKK robes - just because you don't happen to like his looks and the way he appears to you? Take off your blinders! And by the way - I don't remember him being "in the limelight" when he adopted that child in 1993!!!!! How many people really even heard of him 15 years ago - not the majority - that's for sure!

[rosethecopycat]

I have to go large on this because of the OIL COMPANIES


They broke down exactly how much money that the oil companies make per gallon.....8 cents.

Out of 4-3.50 dollars a gallon they make a nickel and three pennies! Why?
Go to the pump and look at the breakdown of state, local and government taxes per gallon.

Then think of the exploration, studies, drilling, pumping, transport of a barrel of oil, then look at what the company needs to do with keeping up the platforms, derricks and delivery systems as far as preventive mainanence goes.

----
We have been talking about ecology and the earth since Rachel Carson in the late 70's,
And what have we done?

Nothing. Those stupid commercials were the parents are on a TV screen telling their children about some legacy to clean up the earth....what a crock of crap.

No one cares.







Right on.

I grew up in the "crying Indian" commercial generation. NOT LITTERING was the major focus back then. Do you think we all could cooperate on that one?
Seems rather simple, throw your trash in the basket.
But no, get out of your car in any parking lot and you'll see cups, wrappers, and people who think the world is their ashtray, literally.
As a kid, and even as an adult, I used to go out picking up litter. Now it's pretty apparent that nobody cares, some 40 years later.

People are always wanting a new 'cause'. In the 80's it was "feed the world" "we are the children", in the 90's it was homelessness. Now it is "Global warming", "current climate crisis"
I tell you that no one will be talking about this in 10-15 years.

The real crisis is our dependance on foreign oil.

[Pam]

I'm not going to comment on IRescue's posts any more. If I didn't see that she had almost 4,000 posts I would think that this was a troll posting.

Back to the original question. I have not decided yet who I will vote for. I want to closely analyze their answers to questions in the coming weeks and watch the debates. Neither candidate thrills me but I will give Obama credit for selecting Joe Biden. I guess he can make a good decision now and then. :p Personally I would prefer that Biden be at the top of the ticket.

[RICHARD]

The crying Indian was Chief Iron Eyes Cody.:)

---------------

I just want to say something about the issues of age and politics.

One of the most wonderful things about this government is the fact that you can make a statement as to what your beliefs are. We fall short when we are challenged for what we think, we take things much to personally but need to remember and look at someone else and why, how and what they think.


This is not an endorsement of one side or another, standing by one opinion or challenging what is being said.

When I was young I had my peace sign stickers, cloth emblems sewn on my jeans. I still flash a peace sign when I drive and someone let's me into their lane.

I thought the ACLU was a just endeavour and the "Man" really sucked because he was spending my money on 300 dollar toilet seats and hammers.

As I get more worldly, wise-maybe not-and smarter about my world and the politicians that will do anything to try and run it. I've figured out that I was played for a dummy a few times.

My bumper sticker, "One nuclear bomb can rule your whole day." went the way of my World Wildlife Federation and Greenpeace ideas.

Why?

Greenpeace was sinking fishing ships in harbors to keep the fish alive.
What happens to all the oils and solvents that leak out of the ship into the harbor?

The Earth Liberation Front set fire to cars at a dealership here in CA a few years ago-what happened to the water, full of contaminants, that was used to put out the fires? It went into the sewers and into the ocean.

Same thing with the Animal Lib Front. They break into labs, set free the animals and burn the building down.

Same results. More trash to clean and water to pollute.

I do not advocate the use of animals for testing but I hate the fact that people with such good ideas and hearts can be so stupid.

I would love to younger again - only if I could be smarter.
It's great that young people will speak out in a calm, intelligent, informed manner.

We can sometimes excuse them for how they think, then take a look at why us experienced folks are set in our ways.;)

Of course, we are smarter than any 'whippersnappers'. We struggled with 13 channels of TV, had to read newspapers or listen to radio to get our news and eating at a drive thru eatery was a treat, not an everyday meal.:rolleyes:

My only consolation is the fact that one day they will get close to where we are and they will ask themselves the very same question-

"What was I thinking when I said/did that?"

In the end we all talk a great game and the problems we have with our politicians are the same, just dressed up in techno flash and non guilty sounding terms.

Lying or changing your mind is reassessing your position.
Getting misquoted means you were caught speaking what you really think..
An affair with a child as the by product is a dalliance with a love child.
Racism replaces human stupidity.
Illegal aliens that pick crops are now non-citizen migrant workers.

What were we thinking?;)

[Marigold2]

I try to find someone who seperates church and state. That is the most important thing for me.
America became a country because people wanted and needed to pray and live freely.
Too many people don't understand that church and state have to be seperate for all to have freedom.
Abortion might be against your religon but it's not against everyone's.
Same with the death penelty.
Perhaps in 10 or 20 years we will have a Jewish president. Should our beliefs, holidays, way of life be changed because of that? No.
America is a free country and even though we don't all agree at least we have the right to disagree and raise our children with or without prayer in the home.
We can celebrate Christmas or not.
We can use birth control or not.
We can marry or not.
We can have same sex relationships or not.
We can dance, wear jewelry, listen to rock music, have sex before marriage or we can decide none of those are right for us.
If any leader tries to control us through his or her religous beliefs our freedom is lost.

[Grace]

I try to find someone who seperates church and state. That is the most important thing for me.
America became a country because people wanted and needed to pray and live freely.
Too many people don't understand that church and state have to be seperate for all to have freedom.
Abortion might be against your religon but it's not against everyone's.
Same with the death penelty.
Perhaps in 10 or 20 years we will have a Jewish president. Should our beliefs, holidays, way of life be changed because of that? No.
America is a free country and even though we don't all agree at least we have the right to disagree and raise our children with or without prayer in the home.
We can celebrate Christmas or not.
We can use birth control or not.
We can marry or not.
We can have same sex relationships or not.
We can dance, wear jewelry, listen to rock music, have sex before marriage or we can decide none of those are right for us.
If any leader tries to control us through his or her religous beliefs our freedom is lost.

BRAVO - I totally agree with what Marigold has said.

[Miss Z]

Not going to weigh in too much on this - because American politics confuses the heck out of me and to be honest I'm not that interested in British politics either...

I just have to say I was slightly surprised by the way IRescue's post was abhorred. I can see why some people took it the wrong way, but honestly she did make valid points.

Yes, someday I will be old and maybe someday I'll have my own family to look after and yes, probably I will find it hard. But IRescue is right in saying that the young teenagers and adults who clench their teeth and bust a gut studying to get a place at university often have far less luxuries than the drop-outs pushing Vicky Pollard-style prams, because they are not leeching off government benefits. I just don't see the fairness in that. You want to pump out as many kids as your body can take? Fine. Just don't expect every other tax payer to finance those kids' playstations and your hair straighteners and whatever else.

Families and old people do need help, I am not denying that, but politics is all about saying what people want to hear - if you're seen to take pity on certain groups of people then the masses are supposed to like you. If you dare to care about those who are trying to make their way in the world, like university students, and are cleverer and more strong willed than perhaps the average person, you may not get the support of the masses. I suppose that's why the polcies are the way they are.

I'm dreading the bills I'll face at university. No matter how rich you are, you'd have a job on to pay it all quickly. I know that I will have to sacrifice a car (there's no way I could pay road tax and insurance for a young driver on top of fees) and take out at least one student loan which I'll probably still be paying way into my career. And yet my government would not want to help me because that money has gone to rehabilitate drug addicts and pay for some nineteen-year-old's tenth child.

On the topic of religion - quite frankly politics and religion should be in no way related, but studying some US politics I have seen it plays a surprising influence - way more than in the UK, in fact I would say religion is far too taboo to bring into British politics nowadays.

IRescue was referring to shove-it-down-your-throat preachers and people who have a very warped view of religious faith, not a true Christian. I have respect for people of every religion who practice their faith in a fair and loving way (which, all religions are supposed to be like anyway), but I do not respect brainwashers and people who tell me I'll burn in hell for being an atheist. In my opinion, people like that have more in common with Al Qa'eda than a true Christian faith.

I didn't quite understand the point made about John McCain being a closet racist, but no doubt there are people in the US who will vote based on racist beliefs.

End of lecture. :) Just a further note, I have had vehement disagreements with IRescue before, but I just don't see any reason to flame her here.

[Lady's Human]

Why are the elderly and people with families targeted as key consituencies in elections?

Very simply, they vote.

Young people by and large don't, they are a very, very risky demographic group to go after, as they vote in the primaries, but tend to disappear in the general elections.

[RICHARD]

I didn't quite understand the point made about John McCain being a closet racist, but no doubt there are people in the US who will vote based on racist beliefs.




I am proud to say I love racism. Formula One, GP and am starting to follow saloon cars. I also like NASCAR and fancy the Paris to Dakar. :confused:;)

Lewis Hamilton for Prime Minister!

[Cincy'sMom]

I am proud to say I love racism. Formula One, GP and am starting to follow saloon cars. I also like NASCAR and fancy the Paris to Dakar. :confused:;)


Saloon cars? What are those?

[RICHARD]

Saloon cars? What are those?


http://www.bsccoc.ca/

It's a racing class popular in GB and Canada.

They take road cars, jazz them up and race.

I don't know enough about them to equate them to a NASCAR series-if there is one.

[Oggyflute]

:eek: wow! Presidential elections in the states are pretty intense.
It's somewhat different down under. The Obama's nomination has been on the news of course, and I was rather taken back a tad on how big it was. I presume that McCain will have a similar one. I had to chuckle actually because after showing Obama's big bash with Stevie Wonder etc, they showed a clip of our current Prime Minister in his election campaign, doing a jig with a busker on the sidewalk! (well you have to budget costs you see. Can't be seen to spend too much on the entertainment).
In regards to this election, what I look for is basically any reaction that will filter down to our own market & economy, interest rates etc. Things that would have a direct bearing on myself and my lifestyle. Which is also how I look at elections locally, both State & Federal, at least at first. Then of course, you might afford yourself the luxury of thinking about issues in a wider outlook, like troops at war & global warming. But essentially, I believe most people are worried about their jobs, feeding their family, health care, schooling, basically the things that allow us to function in society. OK, now who's the best person and party to do that!?? Can be a tough choice, but I'd rather have to have that choice, than to never have it.
In my younger days, I actually flew a lot of politicians around when in the RAAF, and I'm well aquainted in how fallible they actually are. So when you are in that voting booth, you just hope that tick you place on that form was the right one for you & your family.

[RICHARD]

In regards to this election, what I look for is basically any reaction that will filter down to our own market & economy, interest rates etc. Things that would have a direct bearing on myself and my lifestyle. Which is also how I look at elections locally, both State & Federal, at least at first. Then of course, you might afford yourself the luxury of thinking about issues in a wider outlook, like troops at war & global warming. But essentially, I believe most people are worried about their jobs, feeding their family, health care, schooling, basically the things that allow us to function in society. OK, now who's the best person and party to do that!?? Can be a tough choice, but I'd rather have to have that choice, than to never have it.


Ahem, at the risk of offending my "fellow 'Murican's"-


At 232 some odd years old the Untied States (pun intended) in some cases is way too young to really know what we want in a politician.

It's great to hear opinions, without the well deserved snickering, about how we look to other people in other places.;)

There are many, more qualified men than BO that could run for the Democratic nomination. The fact is that money fueled 'extravaganzas' and wasteful spending is part of the plan to get into office. All politicians have the inner megalomania -as you may suspect and know. So spending money on elaborate stages with giant screen TVs, fireworks and speeches that captivate but do not flesh out any political standings are the norm.


About Barack-
There is a certain novelty about his being black, being a good speaker (BS shoveler) and having rock star good looks. I really don't care about that. being a little more insightful is always a good thing! The Republican-LOL, you may know the answer to this.....Why not just call them PUBlicans? ;)- isn't any better. He does have a bunch of minuses on his dance card. But he's what we have to look at.

In the end it's a popularity contest that includes the spouses, the issues and how many lies you can get away with.

You can equate the campaigning to a clown car you see at a circus.

Except it's a limo and and the pinstripe suit is the costume of the day.


---------------


One day I hope we can meet, I'll explain American football to you in exchange for some pointers on what happens on the pitch with the Aussie style FB? It's far more exciting than stupid politics.


I'll buy the first round!

[Edwina's Secretary]

and having rock star good looks.

You had better be careful RICHARD. There are people who get VERY upset if you comment on the looks of a candidate!:D:D:D

[sparks19]

really now :rolleyes:

No apparently Obama's good looks make him MORE qualified for some reason. He makes the ladies *swoon* so I hear. He's not my type though. I just wouldn't vote or not vote for someone based on their looks either way... but some people do and that's kind of sad :(

it's also kind of sad that Obama is ALREADY receiving death threats :eek: many because he is "black" Really makes me wonder how many people are voting because of superficial things.

personally for me... if I could vote here... the biggest thing I look for are things that are most important for me in a candidate... does he/she support the things that mean the most to me? What is their plan for it (although this has become increasingly difficult to find out because not many these days want to lay their plan out for you... they just want to tell you what the OTHER guy is doing wrong. that doesn't help anyone) After that I look at how much money they are going to likely want to take from me in order to put their "plans" into action. Are they going to cut costs only to jack up taxes to the point that we are paying more than the costs they cut.

I try to listen to both sides speak... although sometimes listening to either side makes my brain go "BUZZZZZZ". Again... I DON'T want to hear about how the other guy is doing it WRONG. I want to hear about how you are going to do it right.

but in the end... and I'm sure I will get lots of :rolleyes: 's for this... I have to go with my heart. they can tell me anything they want but if I really don't believe it then I just can't go along with it.

But... none of this matters because I can't vote.

[Miss Z]

Lewis Hamilton for Prime Minister!

LOL!

If the Banana party can beat Gordon Brown's labour representatives then I'd say he's in with a fighting chance. :)

[Freedom]

A: I base my political decisions on who will best stand for a small national government, that will get out of the way and let the people thrive.
I smiled reading this. See, it is my basic belief that people, left to their own devices, will do the most stupid thing possible. And that government has to set some boundaries in order to keep people focused on the best thing possible.


I try to find someone who seperates church and state. ....If any leader tries to control us through his or her religous beliefs our freedom is lost.
I agree and this points out why I find it all so difficult. I do want someone who has SOME beliefs, some moral compass. Many (but not all) people get this from their religious beliefs. So it's a fine line.

[Bonny]

Voting is a game of chance. You think you are picking the right person but maybe you aren't? They get you all excited about what they are going to do for us & then there is also the rest of the world out there too waiting for their handouts. I hate any kind of negative campaigning dirt slinging crap. I want to know what, why, how, & when they plan to accomplish their promises. The neat thing about voting & thinking you are picking the right person is you can slam dunk them if they don't hold to their promises. If you don't vote you lose that right.

[RICHARD]

The neat thing about voting & thinking you are picking the right person is you can slam dunk them if they don't hold to their promises. If you don't vote you lose that right.


Great point!!!!

And this is why politics is like sports.

A team who signs any athlete to a contract is going on that player's worth for the next season. Their performance is in no way guaranteed.

So, if the dude screws up, the team let's him go. to be replaced by the second stringer.

Same thing in politics, you get some idiot who promises a perfect season - Kick the AH out and put in the second place runner-up.

Then watch things get done.

---------------------


The real gauge for a politician is what he says about health care. I am whipping a dead horse on this topic but there is now way in heck that I am going to vote for anyone who promises, without presenting at least an outline on how to reform the system.

It's something that everyone needs and will have to face in their lifetimes.

IT will never get 'fixed' until you separate the lawyers, insurance companies, drug and medical supply companies and doctors. They all feed off of each other and that's where the money is made.

Everyone complains about the cost of gas and the utilities. Ask anyone with sick relatives to get you a copy of the billing for a few days in a hospital.

--------------

I'd rather see a candidate start preaching about the "Apple a Day that keeps the Doctor away".

It makes more sense -your health coverage is bought by the pound.:rolleyes:

[Grace]

I smiled reading this. See, it is my basic belief that people, left to their own devices, will do the most stupid thing possible. And that government has to set some boundaries in order to keep people focused on the best thing possible.


This remark really saddens me. I think the American people, left to their own devices, would do a whole lot better than anything the Federal Government has done recently. Boundaries set by the government - haven't we seen too much of this lately??

Ask not what your government can do for you; Ask what you can do for your government.

[sparks19]

This remark really saddens me. I think the American people, left to their own devices, would do a whole lot better than anything the Federal Government has done recently. Boundaries set by the government - haven't we seen too much of this lately??

Ask not what your government can do for you; Ask what you can do for your government.

Good post. this is my basic belief too.

[rosethecopycat]

I smiled reading this. See, it is my basic belief that people, left to their own devices, will do the most stupid thing possible. And that government has to set some boundaries in order to keep people focused on the best thing possible.



I might clarify by saying 'let the people thrive' doesn't mean they all will.
That's pretty much a Libertarian viewpoint. More freedom, less restriction.

[Oggyflute]

One day I hope we can meet, I'll explain American football to you in exchange for some pointers on what happens on the pitch with the Aussie style FB? It's far more exciting than stupid politics.


I'll buy the first round!

Absolutely Richard! Having a yarn on football over a few quiet beers, is the backbone of communication in any civilised society. :D

[RICHARD]

Absolutely Richard! Having a yarn on football over a few quiet beers, is the backbone of communication in any civilised society. :D

LOL, But Ms. Palin is ours! We saw her first!:D

[jazzcat]

This remark really saddens me. I think the American people, left to their own devices, would do a whole lot better than anything the Federal Government has done recently. Boundaries set by the government - haven't we seen too much of this lately??

Ask not what your government can do for you; Ask what you can do for your government.
Unfortunatley I think there are too many people out there who only have their hand out and want to know "where's mine?". I'm all for less government but I want that to also include less handouts.

Reminds me of the government housing projects in my hometown at Christmas. These people have their houses and utilities paid for (and I'm sure they get foodstamps and who knows what else) and at Christmas they have the most outside decorations I've ever seen. The area is so bright with Christmas lights you can read by it. My inlaws always say to drive through and enjoy the lights since we are paying for them.:mad::(

[RICHARD]

The other 'talking point" that makes me crazy is the issues about schooling.


You can have the best teachers, classes and facilities and it no one gets the kids interested or makes them attend you may as well spend it on CHRISTMAS LIGHTS!:cool:

This goes back to the school that Oprah opened up in Africa.

She said that when she spoke to the American kids, they wanted iPods, jeans and other material BS.

A TV show-I think it was Colbert or Stewart, sent a reporter to a u.s. school and asked them if they wanted cool stuff or money for the schools. The kids were like, "Man, give us money for a good school!"


I have to laugh because Oprah probably asked them what they wanted, as opposed to what they needed.

I tend to think any kid would want a cool computer lab, pool or just plain air conditioning to make their school experience more bearable.:p

[lizbud]

I was reading someone else's opinion on how & what people should base
their votes on. Qualities needed to strengthen all of America. This guy
comes pretty close to how I make my choice & who I will support.


Dear concerned citizens of America and mass media of the U.S.A.

As a concerned disabled American Veteran and American citizen, I consider it my duty and responsibility to address the following critical issues facing the voters of our Greatgrand nation, the United States of America [USA].

The citizens of the United States of America [USA] have the ultimate power and responsibility to elect the Right Ticket with the right joint "temperament, judgment, and statesmanship" to lead our nation as well as change our nation's present and future moral, political, economic, educational, health care, energy, military, and foundational soul.
In my firm professional, personal, and political opinion, the media should help the common voter to explore and discuss the following attributes of the present Republican and Democratic presidential slates:
1. Does the joint ticket have a calm, cool, and collected " temper and impulse" [Presidential Temperament]?
2. Does each ticket have sound and sustained "Judgment and Caliber"?
3. Does each ticket have a "presidential depth and degree" in regard to their purpose, policies, and positions?
4. Does each ticket have adequate, "understanding and knowledge" of workings around Washington"?
5. Does each ticket have enough "vigor, wisdom and Vision" for the future of our beloved Great-grand Nation?
6. Does each ticket possess enough joint foreign policy experience and ex-poser based on "American Values, Virtues, Vastness, and strong soul"?
7. Are their campaign talk, slogans, ads, plans, and programs based on facts and are they free of fear, fiction, frivolous labels, unfair attacks, negativity, and impulsivity? [Danger to country and countries mission[s].



As a Independent registered voter I have decided to vote for Obama-Biden ticket. I am sure they will protect our national security, Strong's, stamina and strong soul. Rebuild our nation from bottom up in all areas of need, OBAMA-BIDEN ticket will once again restore and rebuild our global standing with the use of maximum international firm diplomacy and minimal force if and when indicated.


Yours sincerely,

COL. A.M. Khajawall [Ret] MD., Forensic psychiatrist, Colonel, US-AR / MC Combat Stress Control[Ret], Disabled American Veteran and Iraq Freedom team.

PS: This nation will not buy into kitchen sink strategy. We are getting deeper into internal and external holes thru these attack and world is laughing on us and enjoying our partisan Pitt Bull wounds. I am sure GOP.RC, FOX, RUSH, ROVE.And McCain's his surrogates will fail to dupe, deceive, and deprive USA its deserved leadership.


Posted by: COl. A.M.Khajawall [Ret] | Sep 4, 2008 10:16:24 PM

[RICHARD]

COL. A.M. Khajawall [Ret] MD., Forensic psychiatrist, Colonel, US-AR / MC Combat Stress Control[Ret], Disabled American Veteran and Iraq Freedom team.



I have always wondered this about people who have 'extended' signatures.

Do they actually take the time to type this all out or do they have some kind of macro so they don't have to do it time and time again?:confused:

[Lady's Human]

People who are writing political statements need to leave their military status out of their statements.

It's never prosecuted, but it is a violation of federal law and the UCMJ.

[Cinder & Smoke]

IF I could vote here ...

What is their plan for it (although this has become increasingly difficult
to find out because not many these days want to lay their plan out for you
... they just want to tell you what the OTHER guy is doing wrong -
that doesn't help anyone).

I try to listen to both sides speak ...
I DON'T want to hear about how the other guy is doing it WRONG.
I want to hear about how you are going to do it right.


Darn shame you CAN'T Vote ... we sure need more INFORMED Voters
like you!

I also deduct points for the negative ads and unending tails of how
"That Other Guy is doing it all wrong ..."

I'm afraid that BOTH the Presidential Wanna-bees are into negative
numbers in MY points tally ...

"NONE of the above" is sounding better every day.

;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

People who are writing political statements need to leave their military status out of their statements.

It's never prosecuted, but it is a violation of federal law and the UCMJ.

Would you please tell that to the McCain camp? How many times do we have to hear about his VietNam experience?

[Lady's Human]

Different animal, in that he's not using his rank to enhance his status. For instance, without the COL, USAR ******* after his name, would that statement have even been posted on this board?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Different animal, in that he's not using his rank to enhance his status.

Senator to President - not enhanced status?

[lizbud]

For instance, without the COL, USAR ******* after his name, would that statement have even been posted on this board?


You bet your life it would. I like these ideas offered and I don't care if
he graduated high school or not. This man makes sense.:)


This man is also retired from Military service & can say what he wants to say.

What are they going to do, hold his military retirement check? Retired
Military are allowed to use their former rank after they leave the service.
It's done all the time.

[RICHARD]

It's done all the time.


Let's see if my creds make me anymore noteworthy?


Reporter KGIL Radio (RET.), Writer/proofreader JHFPHS Optimist (RET.), Volunteer KFH Charities/Community Outreach (RET.), Contributor LADN/LAT (RET.), LIMOM (RET.)


Nope, I still sound like an AH.:D

_---------------

My nephew -USMC (RET.) - and I once had spirited convo about Bill Clinton and what he thought about him. My nephew surprised me, He sheepishly shrugged his shoulders, smiled and said that he could not comment on his CIC? This was at the time of BC's budget cuts and pillaging of the AF of America.

To this day he really won't comment about politics. He was a lowly grunt, but I am proud that he didn't take the rules that he was under-and is no longer bound by seriously.

It's like driving, You get less stressed and arrive in better spirits when you stop tooting your horn at every stop sign.

[lizbud]

Let's see if my creds make me anymore noteworthy?


Reporter KGIL Radio (RET.), Writer/proofreader JHFPHS Optimist (RET.), Volunteer KFH Charities/Community Outreach (RET.), Contributor LADN/LAT (RET.), LIMOM (RET.)


Nope, I still sound like an AH.:D




Now Richard, don't be so hard on yourself.:rolleyes:

How many more titles do you want to have in your lifetime? How many job
apps did you put in today? Any nibbles? :D

[RICHARD]

Now Richard, don't be so hard on yourself.:rolleyes:

How many more titles do you want to have in your lifetime? How many job
apps did you put in today? Any nibbles? :D


Dearest,

IT's all in jest, I have to laugh at myself!

I wasted too many years wondering what people thought about me, to really find out what I thought about myself.

Plus, if I laugh long enough, the people around me start to laugh, too!:D


----------

I actually do have a job, IT's taking care of mom!!!:)

Psst....LIMOM means Legend In My Own Mind!:o

[Lady's Human]

You cannot use your retired military rank to advance a political statement, period. It's a violation of both the UCMJ and the Hatch act. And yes, they can withhold pay and take other punitive actions, and I wish they would. There were various issues in the 2004 campaign with both sides trotting out wounded soldiers, vets, etc. in uniform. Everyone got a quick reminder about the Hatch act, and no further action was taken, as usual.:rolleyes:

Had he not used the rank, I almost guarantee Obama's campaign wouldn't have made that mailing.

[Puckstop31]

People who are writing political statements need to leave their military status out of their statements.

It's never prosecuted, but it is a violation of federal law and the UCMJ.


Roger!

Article 88—Contempt toward officials

“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.

(1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;
(2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;
(3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and
(4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used.

Explanation.

The official or legislature against whom the words are used must be occupying one of the offices or be one of the legislatures named in Article 88 at the time of the offense. Neither “Congress” nor “legislature” includes its members individually. “Governor” does not include “lieutenant governor.” It is immaterial whether the words are used against the official in an official or private capacity. If not personally contemptuous, ad-verse criticism of one of the officials or legislatures named in the article in the course of a political discussion, even though emphatically expressed, may not be charged as a violation of the article.

Similarly, expressions of opinion made in a purely private conversation should not ordinarily be charged. Giving broad circulation to a written publication containing contemptuous words of the kind made punishable by this article, or the utterance of contemptuous words of this kind in the presence of military subordinates, aggravates the offense. The truth or falsity of the statements is immaterial.

Maximum punishment.

Dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

There are other places... But I think this works.

ETA... Personally, what an arrogant statement from a REMF. A doctor at that!! When was the last time HIS ass was really on the line???? Ask a guy on the pointy edge of the stick what THEY think.

* Please note that my opinion on the Iraq war is rather negative. So please don't flame me as some GWB supporter.

[Edwina's Secretary]

You cannot use your retired military rank to advance a political statement, period. It's a violation of both the UCMJ and the Hatch act. And yes, they can withhold pay and take other punitive actions, and I wish they would. There were various issues in the 2004 campaign with both sides trotting out wounded soldiers, vets, etc. in uniform. Everyone got a quick reminder about the Hatch act, and no further action was taken, as usual.:rolleyes:

Had he not used the rank, I almost guarantee Obama's campaign wouldn't have made that mailing.


How sad. I did not realize Americans are required to give up their constitutional rights when they join the military. Rather ironic, isn't it?

So how did those horrid Swift Boaters get away with lying about a fellow soldier? Is that permissable? How are you allowed to express policitical opinions on here? How are former military people allowed to serve in congress or the cabinet?

And...how does McCain get away with it?

[Puckstop31]

How sad. I did not realize Americans are required to give up their constitutional rights when they join the military. Rather ironic, isn't it?

So how did those horrid Swift Boaters get away with lying about a fellow soldier? Is that permissable? How are you allowed to express policitical opinions on here? How are former military people allowed to serve in congress or the cabinet?

And...how does McCain get away with it?

This comes down to reading comprehension again...

If I said something like this...

"All Democrats are misguided fools and deserve to be killed.

SFC Brian D B**** USA, Retired"

THAT is a UCMJ violation. If I left out the rank and (ret) part... Its all good. And yes, it is THAT simple.

[Lady's Human]

ES,

I can certainly engage in political discussions, but cannot do so while using my rank to add emphasis to my statements.

I can attend a political rally, anti-war protest, or another political function, but not in uniform.

I can solicit donations for a campaign, but cannot use my military status in those communications.

As stated many times through the career of a soldier, remember, we're a dictatorship defending a democracy. You can think it, but keep your trap shut.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But I still don't get my question answered! How does McCain get away with the constant reference to his military service. Can't he lose his pension or something?

And I still think it is very sad that your freedom of speech is curtailed!

[Lady's Human]

McCain has never used his rank to make a political statement. I can refer to my service all I want, but I cannot make a statement using my rank to add emphasis or appear in uniform.

[Oggyflute]

ES,

I can certainly engage in political discussions, but cannot do so while using my rank to add emphasis to my statements.

I can attend a political rally, anti-war protest, or another political function, but not in uniform.

I can solicit donations for a campaign, but cannot use my military status in those communications.

As stated many times through the career of a soldier, remember, we're a dictatorship defending a democracy. You can think it, but keep your trap shut.

I think you'll find that's pretty much the deal in any democracy. We have this law down under called the "Official Secrets act". Quite a wide ranging and broad piece of work, and I'm still exonerably bound to it twenty years after I 'retired'. It does manage to keep me out of jury duty though apparently. :rolleyes:

[Puckstop31]

And I still think it is very sad that your freedom of speech is curtailed!

I can understand how most people would feel this way. But remember, the military is about going into harms way and doing some very dangerous work. When bullets are flying, there is no time to take a vote or have your soldiers opinions heard.

It truly is the only job in the world where a dictatorship WORKS. Sure, in garrison/admin mode stuff, you COULD 'take a poll' or hear the gripes and stuff. But in combat, ONE leader's word is final.

* No, we do not create robots in the Army. We encourage initiative and forward thinking. It is one of the reasons our military is so good at what it does. Even the very lowest level leader is allowed and encouraged to modify the plan, as long as the mission is accomplished. But, when you are given a order, especially in combat (and as long as it is lawful) you carry out that order, NOW.

[lizbud]

You cannot use your retired military rank to advance a political statement, period. It's a violation of both the UCMJ and the Hatch act. And yes, they can withhold pay and take other punitive actions, and I wish they would. There were various issues in the 2004 campaign with both sides trotting out wounded soldiers, vets, etc. in uniform. Everyone got a quick reminder about the Hatch act, and no further action was taken, as usual.:rolleyes:

Had he not used the rank, I almost guarantee Obama's campaign wouldn't have made that mailing.


The statement by a retired officer was NOT used in any mailing.:confused:

Re using the Hatch Act to enforce silence on political issues on non serving
military members is unconstitutional. I would love to see a court case on this
very issue, but it won't happen. Now, if a active military officer voiced his
personal beliefs while in service of his country, then that's a different ball
game.

[Edwina's Secretary]

McCain has never used his rank to make a political statement. I can refer to my service all I want, but I cannot make a statement using my rank to add emphasis or appear in uniform.

I do not understand the difference between talking about one's service and using rank to add emphasis. If someone uses a photo of him/herself in uniform, how is that different than appearing in uniform? And who is to say whether the rank was used to add emphasis or for some other reason?

Can someone say, I am a retired Captain in the Army and one thing I learned...blah, blah, and I feel that...blah, blah. Is it only if they put all the letters after their name they break the law? Can they criticize congress but not the president? Can they criticize a mayor or the Chief of Police?

I do know this. Living as I do in the Land of Retired Military (and many active as well with Camp Pendleton) next time I see a letter to the editor signed with Ret. Whatever, USMC I will insist the criminal be apprehended!:D:D

[Lady's Human]

You can criticize the mayor, Chief of Police, etc.......they are not in your chain of command. Congress and the President ARE in your chain of command.

Liz, if they prosecuted a retired military person for breaking the law by violating the Hatch act, it would be a slam dunk case, as the person is not separated from the military. They are still on the rolls, and still subject to the UCMJ, where applicable. We all carry little blue ID cards, and are subject to recall if the country sees fit to do so.

[Edwina's Secretary]

You can criticize the mayor, Chief of Police, etc.......they are not in your chain of command. Congress and the President ARE in your chain of command.



One last question (I know...I always say that...;))

So if there is an election between a sitting president and a challenger - say a governor, the military person can criticize the governor but not the president?

If you are in the state militia, are you prohibited from criticizing the governor?

(Okay...that's two)

[Lady's Human]

1) You can't criticize either, as either may wind up as the pinnacle of your chain of command.

2) This is an easy one.......that question is covered by the UCMJ of the individual states.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Thanks LH.

I am very sorry your right to free speech is curtailed. I remain a bit shocked and greatly saddened to learn of this.

[Lady's Human]

ES, it gets irritating at times, but there's a good reason for it. It maintains the military's position as serving authority, not being the authority. It avoids someone like Gen. Patton or MacArthur strutting on stage at a political convention and taking the reins of the civilian government and maintaining their standing in the military...........A la Libya, Pakistan, or any other military run country.

(Actually, MacArthur's candidacy may BE the reason that little part of the UCMJ exists........Ike was no one's fool)

[Edwina's Secretary]

But I could also see it being used the other way. Someone who served in the military is is now a civilian (yes, I know you are always subject to recall. I know a woman who was 6 or 7 years out of the military was recalled and sent to Afganistan - infant and toddler left at home) cannot criticize the president or congress. I understand active duty - sort of. But it sounds like a way for the government to control dissent . Never a good thing -- unless you are partial to dictatorships.

It seems to me there should be an expiration date after which you are again able to speak freely!

[lizbud]

Liz, if they prosecuted a retired military person for breaking the law by violating the Hatch act, it would be a slam dunk case, as the person is not separated from the military. They are still on the rolls, and still subject to the UCMJ, where applicable. We all carry little blue ID cards, and are subject to recall if the country sees fit to do so.


Can you cite one case where this has happened? Give me one instance
(besides treason) where a case has been successfully prosecuted.

[RICHARD]

I really want to U.S. government/AFs to chase around people with typewriters and email.

Then people will sue and the whole case gets out of hand.


As a matter of fact, I think more people should use e-mail, It keeps sharp, pointy things out of their hands and everyone is safer.:confused:

[Lady's Human]

Liz,


Hatch act and article 88 prosecutions on military members are rare, normally for an active servicemember it's a verbal removal of several pounds of flesh from a sensitive area (been there, done that, got the T-shirt, which is why I'm so familiar with this), normally the max is a letter of reprimand placed in the official file (A career-ending penalty for an active or reserve soldier).

For retired servicemembers, I've seen bans on communications through Army e-mail(which retired servicemembers are eligible to use), bans from using army discussion boards, and stern warnings from superiors, but never anything beyond that.

To enforce the provisions of article 88 the servicemember would have to be returned to active duty for prosecution, which would be costly, as it is a military crime, not a civilian crime.

Hatch act prosecutions for civilian government employees, however, are fairly common, with the penalties normally being a ban from using official communications means to monetary fines, in extreme cases there have been dismissals.

[lizbud]

So, the answer is no. I know many government officials have been
charged & prosecuted under the Hatch Act, but no retired military people.