Smokey, Phred's lil grey FurPup, needs PT Prayers for his bum knee

[Cinder & Smoke]

:(

Please, don't EVER *ignore* the FurKids when they try to tell you "Sumpin's wrong" ...

My lil grey PrayerPup needs his Pet Talk Buddies to send up some really *strong*
Prayers to The Big Guy Upstairs ... we got some bad news on Wednesday that
just has no good twist to it at all. :( Smokey's Bum Knee has returned. :(

Way back when - when Cinder 'dopted him from the front porch (with a lil PT Help) -
[Jan 21, 2001 = http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=3850 ]
he developed a "trick knee" (Luxating Patella) in his right, hind, knee.
Doc Mike sent us to his buddy, Doc B, at the Fancee Klinik.
Doc B advised SmokeMutt "should" have the knee operated on and stabilized.
And he'd be on 'no steps & leashed WALKS only' for months while it healed.
OK ... BUTT Smokey had been introduced to Findlay Gathurins ... and missing the whole
summer of Gathurins and Swimmin seemed a cruel punishment ... can we wait till Fall?

Smokey was already on Glucosamine and Aspirin ... by fall he was NOT having much
trouble with his knee *popping out* ... Doc Mike said it might be OK to wait a while
before doing the Sir Jury - to see if the knee was actually *fixing itself*.

That was FIVE years ago ... we've gone Five Years without Smokey yelping in pain
or running up to Dad and holding out his knee for a *fix*. He RUNS like a deer!

Till Monday ... :(

Actually, he's had trouble for a month or more - he'd give a soft *YIPP* when he
ruff-housed with Cinder or when he had to get up quickly from behind the 'puter chair.
I'm ashamed to say I actually *scolded* him and gave him a *bopp* on the head
a few times because he startled me with his *YIPPS*. :o

Monday he spent too much time "layin down" and "walkin slow".
Tuesday he slept, and did everything in slow motion.
Tuesday night ...
* He didn't really want dinner - but ate when I hand fed him
* Had trouble going down the front steps
* Wouldn't jump up on the BigBed
* *Yelped* when I picked him up and put him on the BigBed
* Was sleeping on the floor by morning

Wednesday I was calling Doc B at 8:30 am ... Bring him in at 5:00 pm.
Doc B came in, watched him walk (a bit stiff-legged) and palpated his hip, knee, and leg.

"His knee's FROZEN and he's in pain! We'll take some X-rays."
Smokey walked off with the Tech and was returned with a "He was a GOOD Boy" report
in about 20 minutes. Doc B came in with two X-ray films and put them on the viewer box ...

"This doesn't look good ... see this? The center of this (right) knee is like a Black Hole.
It's one of two things -
* A joint worn out beyond surgical repair - we'll manage his pain for that
* OR
* It's a tumor - and we'll have to take his leg ...

I was crying like a baby ... and still am. HOW could I be so neglectful?
We got 30 - 75 mg Chewable RIMADYL - 1/2 pill every 12 hours, and told to
be back for another X-ray in 30 days.

By the second Pill, SmokeMutt's almost back in full stride ... he puts some weight on
the Bum Leg, and hasn't cried out in pain since he got the first pill.
He was back to *jumping* into his spot beside me on the BigBed Friday night.

So, now the neglectful FurrParent is asking one and all to PRAY for my Dear Smokey ...
Pray that we can somehow get this *fixed* so the lil Guy can once again be the
Happie Kampur that many of you have seen romping around for years.

Smokey, Cinder, and I will deeply appreciate your Prayers.

/s/ :( Phred

[K9karen]

Aw, Phred..ya can't be too hard on yerself. We're probably all guilty (*waves hand with head down*) of not noticing an ouchie until we feel guilty as he$$.

The Smokemeister was doing so good for so long..who wudda thought?

I'm glad the Rimydal is working for the pain. Are you gonna do the sirjury for his tricky knee? Mr RB Codster had 2 ACL sirjuries and did really well (much better than me :rolleyes:)

I'll be doin' a gatrillion prayers for our major sweet gray boy. Sending lots of hugs to everyone. Stay Cool Phred. Call me if you need anything.

[Catty1]

Hugs and prayers for the Smokey boy!

When the vet said 'beyond surgical repair' - well, I wonder if they do knee replacements on puppers? It it's a bit pricey, we can contact iMom, and Lord knows, Phred, that Smokey would get EVERY bit of $ help from PTrs that is possible. Now, the boy might have to take it easy for a few weeks - but if that would fix the problem, might be worth it, and he'd be back in fine form for the next Findlay!

So glad he is feeling better and his owies are less.

Give him a hug for me, ok?

[krazyaboutkatz]

Phred, I'm so sorry to hear this:( but please don't beat yourself up about it. I'm glad that he's painfree right now and if surgery is the way to go then I hope it's successful and that he makes a speedy recovery. Lots of prayers and positive thoughts are being sent Smokey's way. Please take care. (((HUGS)))

[Freedom]

Phred, don't be harsh on yourself. All this time, Smoke has been "smokin'!" as he motored around. You can't do something when you don't know there is an issue. Prayers are a given from RI for Smoke, and for you as well, to get through this scary time.

First, I wonder if a second opinion, or a specialist, may have a different take of this situation?

Second, I don't like this "beyond surgical repair" one bit. But the second option is wa-ay too scary and that needs to be ruled out, it seems to me. Who is gonna do that, this vet or is he referring to a specialist? What tests will do that for the Smoke man?

How old is Smokey, anyhow? There was something called the "senior dog project," which recommends NOT using Rimadyl for dogs over 7 years of age. I only know this from the rescue group I am with. We foster parents don't get reimbursed if the vet gives Rimadyl. There are 2 other pain relievers which do not pose issues, and that is what we must always get for the foster dogs. I just automatically do that for all my pets, now. This may be something to think about, if Smoke has to keep on the pain meds for any length of time (pending tests, surgery and recovery etc.) It is easy to switch off to one of the other pain meds.

[RockyRoad]

Oh no, this doesn`t sound fun at all. :( Glad to hear that at least the meds are keeping him free of pain. Big prayers on the way to you and Smokey that they`ll be able to fix his knee and not have to take the leg.

[Karen]

You know, even if the news is that they have to take the leg, I have a gut feeling that the Smoke-mutt would adjust lickety split. He's such a skinny little thing anyway, I bet he'd be boppin' around in no time. There was a three-legged dog in my neighborhood growing up, and he moved like nothing was at all different.

He'll be in our prayers that, whatever it turns out to be, it's fixable.

[joycenalex]

lots of prayers going up. phred, don't beat yourself up. smokey is already jumping up on the bed after just a bit of rimydal, that's hopeful. kindest regards, joyce

[Randi]

Phred, I'm SO sorry to hear this. :( I hope somehow the doc will be able to fix Smokey's knee, so he doesn't have to lose his leg.

Would a bandage help until you find out what can done? Perhaps it's not good he's running around too much. I'm glad Smokey is painfree at least, and I really hope he'll get better! Please give him some scritchies from me! :)

Sending lots and lots of positve thoughts to Smokey - and big (((hugs))) to you! Take care! And please, don't beat your self up over this, you're the best doggy dad there is!

[Ginger's Mom]

Lots of prayers going out for our Smokey, and lots of hugs going out for both you and the furkids. Sometimes I really wish they could just come out and tell me what is wrong, I never was very good at charades. {{{Hugs}}}

[Pam]

Phred I can understand the guilt you feel but please don't let it get you down. Our pupsters can handle a lot of pain (much more than us humans) so Smokey appeared to you, who, after all, are only human, to be doing well. I had a toy poodle with a luxating patella and the vet showed me how to slide it back into place :eek: if I wanted to postpone surgery. I could hardly maintain the presence of mind (dog yelping....human freaking) to do that while he was crying out so we went with surgery almost right away.

Since Smokey has responded so well to the medicine maybe that is all he will need. We will fold our hands and cross our paws here that it is not a tumor. ((((Big Hugs)))) and prayers for you and Smokey both.

[4 Dog Mother]

Ah, geez, Phred, I can't believe this is happening. You know how much we love your pups and will do anything to help. First, don't feel guilty! We are humans, they are dogs, and they can't tell us what is wrong. I think almost every pet owner has missed something that could have been treated earlier or we would have understand and not been upset with the pet for his behaviors. Knowing my dogs histories you know I have missed a lot with mine, especially Snoopy and Jack.

As for it being a tumor and having to take his leg, many animals get along fine with 3 legs. Does your Dr. Mike ever give you his take on what the specialist says? I am so pleased with our vets because they always talk to me after the dogs have seen a specialist - when the other vet saw Jack's ultra sound, she was right away, we have to do surgery. When I talked to my vets, they gave me information on what his chances were if we took his kidney, if we didn't, even if we did the biopsy. And if you remember, the specialists in Columbus would have had us spending thousands of dollars to do a test (boy has my memory gone) I think a liver biopsy and the only thing it would have told us was how badly the liver was damaged.

Don't rush into anything. Nothing important is going to change with that knee in the next few days/week. Find out all you can about other options even if that means seeing another vet. I have a feeling Jack would be gone know if we had gone ahead with the surgery. Another vet may feel there is a way to save his leg.

We love you and Smokey. Be sure to let us know what is going on. We will be keeping him and you in our prayers.

Love ya, Diana

[Kfamr]

Poor SmokeMutt! I'll be thinkin' of ya!:love:

[Bengalz]

Phred,

I'm so sorry to hear that Smokey is having such difficulty with his knee but hopeful that he has responded to medication and feeling a little more comfortable. Give that boy a hug for being such a trooper:)

Your feelings of guilt are more than understandable - we all feel that way whenever our furkids are ailing no matter what the circumstances. We all think there is something we should have done better and sooner. You are not at fault; in fact, you are an amazing Dad always putting yourself out and above for any creature on 4 furry legs. :love: (or two hooman legs, for that matter;)) !!

Try to stay positive and focus on what the problem really is and finding the best possible solution. If in fact Smokey has to lose his leg, the little fella is so spirited he will adjust (as others have said) - don't lose hope, please. You know that Cinder will "help" him in any way possible as well - she loves her little brother and wouldn't have it any other way.

Lots of healing thoughts, major hugs and love to you, Smokey and Cinder :love: You will all get through this and the people at PetTalk will help along the way :love:

Betty

[Grace]

I'm so sorry to hear this news. You all have my prayers for as long as necessary.

Here are some treats http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/March16th/dogbone.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/March16th/dogbone.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/March16th/dogbone.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/March16th/dogbone.gif for the critters. If you need more, just holler.

[Cincy'sMom]

Lots of thoughts and prayers for Smokey and that trick knee.

I don't think any of us would have made a different choice then you did...seeing him run around the dog park for the last 5 years, I would have never said he needed to have that knee checked out.

I remeber maybe the first time you came, he favored it once or twice toward the end of the day...but he hasn't shown a sign of pain out there since. Dogs are so good at hiding their pain it is often to the extreme point before we humans ever know. Doesn't make you a neglectful parents...just makes him a strong dog!

[AdoreMyDogs]

Oh Phred you're not neglectful. Smokemutt is just a stoic boy. We all know how very much you love your furkids and we know you are a wonderful furdad. I'm so sorry that Smoke Mutt's knee is bad again, and I'm praying that he'll be OK. I'm sorry that both you and him are in such pain :(

Lots of prayers are headed your way!

[Cinder & Smoke]

THANKS to ALL of you who have replied with beautiful words of encouragement
and Prayers ... means a LOT to us in this very difficult time.




All this time, Smoke has been "smokin'!" as he motored around.
You can't do something when you don't know there is an issue.

First, I wonder if a second opinion, or a specialist, may have a different take of this situation?

How old is Smokey, anyhow?
... recommends NOT using Rimadyl for dogs over 7 years of age.
There are 2 other pain relievers which do not pose issues ...

Dr. B is considered to be "An Orthopedic Specialist" in the eastern Ohio area.
He's done a LOT of knee and ACL reconstructions in his practice.
Our Doc Mike sends patients to Doc B frequently - they're good friends and both
understand the limitations of a One-Doc clinic vrs. a large, multi-Doc Hospital practice.
Doc Mike already knew I'd rushed Smokey in to see Doc B --- the Docs had
traded notes Thursday morning; and Debbie (from Dr. Mike's Office) had called me
on Thursday to offer their support and desire to be kept 'in the loop'.

Doc B is NOT a rush into anything guy --- he nixed an 'exploratory surgery' as not
warranted (yet) due to the seemingly sudden onset of the problem.
I think we're in Good Hands.





Don't rush into anything.
Nothing important is going to change with that knee in the next few days/week.
Find out all you can about other options even if that means seeing another vet.

We will be keeping him and you in our prayers.

THANKS, Mom!! ;)





I don't think any of us would have made a different choice then you did ...
seeing him run around the dog park for the last 5 years,
I would have never said he needed to have that knee checked out.

I remember maybe the first time you came,
he favored it once or twice toward the end of the day ...
but he hasn't shown a sign of pain out there since.

Dogs are so good at hiding their pain it is often to the extreme point before we humans ever know.
Doesn't make you a neglectful parent ... just makes him a strong dog!


Although Amy's thoughts are quite true ...
I can't help but know that I SHOULD have done more for Smokey SOONER! :(
He wouldn't be in this terrible situation IF I'd been a better and more diligent parent. :o

Eyes are leakin pretty bad ...
I'm gonna go {{{Hug}}} some FurKids.

THANKS Again, Gang!

[shais_mom]

I just read this - and thought I replied - but apparently my mind was elsewhere.
lots of prayers on the way Phred and fur crew.
Having a dog with hip dysplasia I can empathasize with you. They sure know how to hide their pain from us.
If it is a pain management issue over the longterm I strongly reccomend the Dog Gone Pain that Keegan takes. www.doggonepain.com Pricewise I think its probably about the same as Rimadyl but not near as hard on their liver. Keegan never responded well to the Rimadyl as she did the DGP.
kisses to the patient.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Oh My Goodness, Phred. This breaks my heart to hear what you guys are going through. It's no secret here at Pet Talk that we all think the sun rises and sets on you. You're a person like no other. Always helping everyone and loving your kids to pieces. Great Pet Dad + Great Person = Super Duper Human Being. Please don't beat yourself up any more!! We do the best we can as pet parents to try to guess what's going on. It's so hard to watch them suffer at all.

Daisy has a luxated patella too. She walks worse and worse every day. She goes to the vet in a few days for her annual. I know I have to ask her vet.....when do we do sir jury? I'm going through the same thing. They can't talk so I wonder every day if I'm making the right call. I have to feel confidant that I make the best decisions and everything will be okay.

I'll be saying mega prayers and thinking mega thoughts about you and Smokey. I hope everything is going to be all right. Let's think positive!!
{{{{{HUGS}}}}}

[Catty1]

Phred - you are an angel to your babies!

Just think - there ARE some two-legged ANIMALS out there that, in your situation, would have dumped poor Smokers - at the shelter or just out on his own! OR worse. :-(

You're a GOOD dad! :D

[Cinder & Smoke]

There are 2 other pain relievers which do not pose issues ...




I strongly reccomend the Dog Gone Pain that Keegan takes.
www.doggonepain.com (http://www.doggonepain.com)
Pricewise I think its probably about the same as Rimadyl but not near as hard on their liver.

kisses to the patient.

Patient's tired of allua **Kisses** & :love::love: he's having to put up with! :D

Any more details or info on these "alternatives" to Rimadyl ??

I know I DID ask Doc B about the bad effects of the Rimadyl ...
his answer was that he's heard and read about the "reported" negative effects;
BUT in his experience (and he's a bit past 25) - he doesn't notice liver or kidney problems.

He sort of said the Rimadyl was a known & effective pain killer - and THAT was very
important at this point in time for Smokey. I'm sure Doc B will at least 'consider' the
three 'alternatives' you Gals are suggesting ... I just need to know the NAMES of
the ones Freedom is suggesting.

Off to read up on Keegan's "DGP".

;)

[Rachel]

Oh, Phred, I'm so sorry that our little Smokester is in such a difficult spot. It breaks my heart. But you must stop feeling guilty. Hindsight is 20/20. We all know what we coulda/shoulda done after the fact and sometimes the wave length by which our dogs communicate with us has some static in it.
Even given that, we don't know how much different or better the situation would be had we been more pro-active. Sometimes even that has ill effects. Hold your head up high knowing that you are one of the most concerned and caring Doggie Daddys out there, and if I ever died and came back as a dog, I'd be at your door, just like Cinder and Smokey were.

Please keep us advised on every little detail going on with our buddy boy. If this process gets *spensive*, you might want to drop a hint here too. In the mean time much :love::love::love: pets, and special snacks for the little bugger. He has probably benefited (unlike some of the rest of us) by keeping his weight in the skinny category.

[lizbud]

I'm so sorry that Smokey has been having so much pain with his knee.:(
Althought I do know that a Luxating Patella never heals itself, some dogs
are able to get along without surgery for a long time & not show any bad
effects from it.

The surgery is expensive, as it is with hip displasia, but it can also work
wonders to end the pain altogether. Here's hoping Smokey can be helped
to keep on truckin for a long,long time yet.Prayers for Smokey & his loving
dad too.:)

[anna_66]

Well gee, looks like everyone has said all my sentiments so I'll just tell you that in no way are you a neglectful pet parent, so don't ever think that.
You take care of those dogs better than most people take care of their kids!

I'm really glad to hear that he's feeling better since the meds. Lots more kisses on the way:D

(((HUGS))) to ya Phred

[Casper]

I am sorry you and Smokey are having to go through this, but I am confident it will turn out well considering the love you two have for each other. After all, love is one of the most powerful forces, right? :)

Positive thoughts and good vibes headed that way!

[cassiesmom]

*picks up Phred's prayer line* *dials number for God*

God ... we have a SmokeMutt with an ouchey knee. And a worried human. Thank you that the Rimadyl has helped so far. Please bless Smokey, Phred and the doctor as they determine what to do. I just want to thank you for Phred and how much he means to PT. Comfort them tonight, please, God. Thank you, Amen.

[Freedom]

Any more details or info on these "alternatives" to Rimadyl ??

I just need to know the NAMES of the ones Freedom is suggesting.


Phred, with any of the 3 (rimadyl, metacam, tramadol), the vet will do routine blood work to monitor kidney, liver and other levels. There are tons of hits for each one. I just go by the rescue's guidelines, based on the report of the senior dog project.

Metacam, and Tramadol are the 2 suggested in the senior dog project, as alternatives to Rimadyl. Metacam is the Tops for pain relief, and it is the most expensive. Marlin got no relief with Tramadol and so we switch over to Metacam within 24 hours, and he was feeling noticeably better in hours. (This was back when he had 38 teeth extractions all at one go.)

Rimadyl can cause internal bleeding and kidney problems. As a short term measure and if your dog is in pain, use this with caution. Long term, it can cause liver problems.

The following is taken from this site:
http://www.nopain4pets.com/arthritis-in-dogs.html
There are two main medications that Veterinarians usually prescribe for the inflammation and pain of arthritis and hip dysplasia. These two canine pain relief treatments are Rimadyl and Metacam. Both of these medications may have moderate to severe side effects for your pet. These are controlled medicines that can only be purchased with a prescription.

Rimadyl - Rimadyl (Carprofen), is produced by Pfizer Pharmaceuticals and was introduced into the market in January 1997. It has proven to be an effective means of relieving arthritis pain in dogs. Since it's introduction there has been serious concern about the side effects of the medication. Many pet owners have reported death of their pets due to adverse reactions to Rimadyl.

When my dog needed relief from her arthritis my Vet suggested that we use Metacam instead of Rimadyl due specifically to the large number of side effects with Rimadyl.

Metacam - Or Meloxicam is an NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) and is closely related to ibuprofen. My Vet likened it to ibuprofen on steroids (although there are no steroids in it). It was suggested that Metacam was a far safer (yet more expensive) choice than Rimadyl. I found my Lab Brandy tolerated it very well and could not identify any side effects from it. The only downside I could see was the cost. It should be noted that Metacam can be used to treat other painful conditions including injuries, surgery and cancer.

There are loads and loads of sites on this subject, Pros, Cons, it gets mind boggling.

[slick]

Oh Phred, I'm so sorry to hear about Smokeymutt's knee and you most certainly have my ongoing prayers. You've gotten some good advice here and I know that you are in good hands.

Please don't feel guilty. As others have said, our furbabies excel in hiding pain. It's times like this that we all wish they could "speak english". Keep a positive attitude...it always helps. You know that PT prayers work miracles and this will be no exception.

Big {{{hugs}}} to you and smoochies to Cinder and Smoke. :love::love:

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

I hope Smokey will be ok!

[zippy-kat]

Smokey will most certainly be in our thoughts and prayers!

[shais_mom]

there's also this I got from my holistic vet.
http://www.nextag.com/duralactin-canine/search-html?nxtg=38140a240538-16831717A3EE5CCD it is milk based
I can't remember how Keeg did on it vs the DGP tho.
That's another thing you might want to look into - chiropractic and/or accupuncture. It won't fix it but it will help with the pain, Keegan will tell ya. ;)
I can ask my vet if she knows of any up around your area if you don't want to drive here.
www.sycamoreanimal.com but she gets people from all over the state.

[cyber-sibes]

Woos & a-rooos, Phred,
Ease up on yourself, you took him to the vet as soon as you realized that something was really wrong. Our pups are soooooo good at just going along like usual, even when they're having serious issues. And we all go thru that guilt - I'm sure we've all said "if only I'd gotten (fill in the blank) to the vet sooner" at some point.

We'll keep paws crossed & send sibe vibes for Smokey. :love:
And here's a big ole' ((((hug))))for you, Phred!;)

[DJFyrewolf36]

A gentle *HUG* and prayers on the way for Smokey from here! I sure do hope he will be ok and get to feeling better soon!

[mruffruff]

I'm so sorry to hear about Smokey's knee.

I've "been there, done that" with the "if only I had taken him to the vet sooner." When Scruffy had his patella go out, I let it go so long that he lost muscle mass in his hip. He never let me know it hurt! So don't beat yourself up. You're a good doggie-dad.

Hopefully, the docs can get a fix on this. But if they can't, remember that Scruffy does just fine on three legs and Smokey can too.

[pitc9]

Oh No.... I'm so sorry to hear this Phred.

Please don't beat yourself down.
Pups are good at hiding pain, or playing it off as not being as bad as it is.

{{{HUGS}}} to you and the fur crew!
:love:

[K9soul]

Little Smoke-mutt is certainly in my prayers. I have to say I would have most assuredly been inclined to do what you did. Had my pupper been racing around so easily, I would have wanted to hold off on any surgery when it seemed he was doing so well. Hindsight is always 20/20, but I know and understand why you feel responsible. I think you're a wonderful dog-dad though, and between that and the power of PT prayers, Smokey is in the best of hands :).

I do know now that having seen your experience, I would be more cautious than I might have otherwise. Sending hugs and comfort your way.

[Vela]

I am just now seeing this about Smokey. I am SO sorry to hear he is having troubles. I would have done just what you did too, I wouldn't do surgery if my dog seemed to be okay for so long. Don't beat yourself up, you are an excellent dad to your kids and they know how lucky they are. I always blame myself too, it's parent guilt. Tons of prayers and hugs for you all. Give him a big hug from me.

[Kona & Oreo's mom]

Smokey, I'm glad that your knee is feeling better when you take your medicine. I hope that it continues to improve. And Phred, I'll be praying that Dr B can fix Smokey's knee. Take care!

[Cinder & Smoke]

Pain Relievers ...
There are loads and loads of sites on this subject,
Pros, Cons, it gets mind boggling.

Agreed.

I'm of the mind to continue with the 30 days of Rimadyl
(75 mg split into two doses per day) -
till we determine what the problem is and develop a treatment.

I'm reminded of the theories that both of the "older" Vets that looked after
First Shepherd Casey proposed to treat her early-onset Arthritis in her hips.
Both Docs were of the "old school, country Vet" mindset, and both advised against
using the "new, high-powered" pain relievers to eliminate "discomfort".
They both preached that reasonable pain (or discomfort) was the body's only way
to warn that an activity was more than said body could tolerate, and to stop or
reduce the offending activity. TOO Much pain relief turned off the "warning" message
and suggested to the Dog that nothing was wrong. Without any pain "warning",
the Dog was very likely to overdo his/her activity level and begin causing
permanent damage.

It seems to be a fine line between pain relief and excessive de-sensitizing.
I need to be able to draw that line for Smokey ... I can't stand idle while he's suffering
with constant pain; but he also needs to know that he has limits that must be heeded.

It's not going to be easy to slow down my lil Jack-Rabbit wannbe.

THANKS Again for all your expressions of concern and Good Wishes.

/s/ DogDad Phred, "Gimpy", and Cinder.

[lizbud]

Agreed.



It seems to be a fine line between pain relief and excessive de-sensitizing.
I need to be able to draw that line for Smokey ... I can't stand idle while he's suffering
with constant pain; but he also needs to know that he has limits that must be heeded.

It's not going to be easy to slow down my lil Jack-Rabbit wannbe.

THANKS Again for all your expressions of concern and Good Wishes.

/s/ DogDad Phred, "Gimpy", and Cinder.


One thing I would advise though is to not let him do any more jumping
up & down off the bed. That's got to be even more damaging to his knees.:(

I know how hard it is to watch them every minute, but I'd try to eliminate
any added strain if you can. Does your Vet want to wait & see before
making a decision on a operation for Smokey's knee?

[Logan]

Gosh, I'm sorry to hear that Smokey is ailing, but I know that you and the vets will do the right thing for him. Please give him one more gentle hug from me, please.

Logan

[Randi]

Yes Phred, it's difficult to draw that line, but I agree that it's probably not good for Smokey to jump around too much, it's very likely that he'll overdo it, if there's no pain warning.

I'm keeping you and Smokey in my thoughts. :love: How's he doing today?

Take care!

[gini]

Phred, first off, I am so sorry to hear that Smokey's knee is causing him trouble - and you, a great deal of worry.

It seems to me as I follow your threads - that you are always pretty busy - helping out the neighbors - tracking down a pup that is injured and going to the vet with the pup. Is it any wonder that you may have missed the sign from Smokey on any given day?

You ARE a GREAT DAD to Smokey and Cinder - you always have been.

You are getting excellent advice on this board - and also from your vets - let's just hope that Smokey is comfortable with the medication and that he will improve.

In the meantime - many, many {{{{hugs}}}} for you. Don't forget to take good care of yourself during all of this!

[Husky_mom]

I just got to read the whole thread.... I´m so sorry Smokey is not doing good... my heartfelt wishes for a recovery... hoping in the best way possible...

hugs to you... don´t be harsh on yourself... it could´ve been anyone of us...

we are here to support and help you...

keeping you all in our thoughts....

[zippy-kat]

One thing I would advise though is to not let him do any more jumping
up & down off the bed.

Sounds like someone needs to put on his carpenter hat and build a ramp up to the big bed! No jumping on or off and dog still in the bed -- a win, win situation! :)

Continued thoughts and prayers!

[Cinder & Smoke]

After 5 pill-days ... Smokey would probably say "I'z jest PHINE!"

A bit of a fib, but not too much of a stretch of the overall truth.

* He hasn't *yipped* in pain since Thursday
* He's back to standing up quietly, and lying down with his characteristic *FLOP*
* He hasn't missed a meal or a treat
* He *put up with* Miz Molly (BIG Foot) from Unka Pat's & Miz Joan's Ranch -
Cali & Molly spent the weekend with us whilst Mom & Dad did a family reunion.
"Putting up with Molly" involves repeated invitations to play -
Molly delivers her play invites just like Smokey does -
with the Nose PUNCH into the invitee's ribs. *oooof!* ...
And the occasional Full-Body SLAM.
When he REALLY didn't want to be bothered by her, he'd either hide between my feet
or hide under the BigBed - a space that's a bit 'tight' for Miz Molly.
--------------------------

I *AM* trying to limit his Jack-Rabbit running & jumping ... but since he LIVES for those
activities, I have to try to not break his spirit while still guarding his knee and leg.
He seems to be self-regulating like he did as a youngster when his knee was bothering him ...
He'll just ever-so-slightly *tuck* the bum leg and only let it make ground contact to
help with turning and balancing. When he takes the four front steps in one flying leap,
he does tuck the leg and only lands on three.
We won't discuss how he manages to start in a SIT behind Cinder (who ALWAYS
goes first) and PASS her on the landing two steps above the basement on the way down. :rolleyes:
Maybe I should start sending him down to the Bus via the front steps and the yard. :p

We're supposed to *wait* till September 6th - but I'll be calling for an appointment
with Doc B on the 2nd - when we get home from the Findlay Gathurin.
We'll take more X-rays to determine if things are changing in the knee.

>> Your wonderfully Kind thoughts, Prayers, and suggestions are APPRECIATED!! :)

[Taz_Zoee]

I've been keeping up on Smokeys progress. I am glad he continues to improve each day. Way to go Smokey.....and Phred! :D :D

[cassiesmom]

Oh, Smokedog... I am very glad to read that you're better! Yaaaay!

[Bengalz]

All paws and claws crossed here hoping for a good outcome in September. I'm happy to hear that Smokey's mobility has improved somewhat; that's usually an indication of less irritation and/or pain:) always a good thing.

Smoke-pup - you're such a good boy taking your meds and listening to your Dad - keep on trucking little one :love:

[jennielynn1970]

Hope Smokey will start to feel better and that surgery won't be necessary. Feel better pupper!

[slick]

I'm go glad to see a positive outcome so far. Way to go Smokeymutt!!!:love:

Gee, Sept 6th seems like an eternity away. All fingers and paws crossed here that you can get in to see Doc B before then. Take care at Findlay.

{{{hugs}}}

[ChrisH]

Good to hear Smokey is moving around better. Prayers & positive thoughts continuing. (I've not posted before but I have been reading.)

Phred, I just want to say, you are one of the best dog owners, and dog lovers, I've ever had the privilege of knowing.

[wolf_Q]

I've been following this thread but haven't had a chance to post. I'll be keeping Smokey in my thoughts. I'm glad to hear he seems to be feeling better! :)

[K9karen]

Mz Logan is right behind ya with the bunny hops, Smokes. But they never seem to get in the way of chasing those nasty critters.

I'm so glad you're feeling better, buddy. Gazillion hugs and kisses.

[captain]

Phred,
You know, I looked up neglectful in the Dictionary and YOUR name was sure not listed anywhere near it .....

HUGS to you and Smoke-Mutt. Seems like you have received heaps of information to help you figure out what is best for Smoke-Mutt.

Take care
Fur-kidd kisses from DownUnder
Michelle

[Daisy and Delilah]

More thoughts and prayers, hugs, and pets for Smokey and fambly.:D

[lizbud]

Sounds like someone needs to put on his carpenter hat and build a ramp up to the big bed! No jumping on or off and dog still in the bed -- a win, win situation! :)

Continued thoughts and prayers!


Might not need the hat & tools. I just thought of the stairs I made for
Buddy after his surgery. Glued together 2 inch styroform slabs to made
steps & used wide enough slabs that the stairs wouldn't tip over. (used 2 slabs per step)
It was super light weight but worked great getting Buddy in and out of the
car.

How's Smokey been feeling? Hope the meds are still keeping the hurts
away.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Might not need the hat & tools ...

How's Smokey been feeling?
Hope the meds are still keeping the hurts away.

:)
SmokeMuttz here ...

The ole gimpy kneebone an leg are doin purdy *Phine* since I been gobblin
the lil candies Dac B sent home wiff me. GOOD Stuff! ;)

Now 'bout this 'Step Idea' ...
I telled Dad, since I hardly use the big konkrete steps sittin between da yard anna
frunt porch, the probability of me usin steps tween da floor anna BigBed
were purdy near slim ta none.
But Dear ole Dad hadda **idea** ...

He's had a big, round, padded, (UG-lee gold color) foot-rester thingy that's been
sittin inna living room and then unner the dining room table since affore I got here.
Guess whut's takin up space inna Bunkroom now? :rolleyes:

We had "Step Class" inna bunkroom last nite ... whadda circus dat wuz!
He moved dat stoopid foot thingy all around da BigBed ... I musta been told UP and DOWN
a hunnert tymes ... managed to *miss* da foot thingy almost ebery tyme.
He tried ta get Cinners ta 'show me how' ... she jest looked at him wiffa
'are you kra-ZEE look' and side-stepped da stoopid thingy.

I s'poze we'll be trippin an stumblin ober that foot thingy till Daddy-O furgetz
it's there some nite an does a header tryin to get to da baffroom at oh:dark:thirty. :eek:

Now iffin I had a Rocket-Pack ... bed jumpin mite be even more *phunn*!

Hoomins ... whudd'le they think of next? :confused:

/s/ SmokeMuttz - the sometymes Gimpy Wun :D

[lizbud]

Hey Smokey, good to know that your dad's way ahead of me in
his thinking of ways to make you comfy.:) take care sweetie.:)

[Ginger's Mom]

LOL, wish I could have witnessed the "step class." ;) :D

Hey, not a bad idea there, Smokey, you don't need steps to help you get up and down, you need a rocket pack to power you up and down. I like it. :)

[cyber-sibes]

Might not need the hat & tools. I just thought of the stairs I made for Buddy after his surgery. Glued together 2 inch styroform slabs to made steps & used wide enough slabs that the stairs wouldn't tip over. (used 2 slabs per step) It was super light weight but worked great getting Buddy in and out of the car.That's a great idea, Liz! Even I could do that! :D
Smokey, maybe you can use the step-thingy just to humor Ol' dad? He'll be less cranky & you may even feel better!

[lizbud]

That's a great idea, Liz! Even I could do that! :D
Smokey, maybe you can use the step-thingy just to humor Ol' dad? He'll be less cranky & you may even feel better!


Thanks Pat. Got the idea from a Golden Retreiver Rescue website. Made
to order for larger dogs that jump rather than climb to get upon things.
I liked it because it was so easy to carry around in the car trunk.

I figured it could work great for a smaller pup like Smokey. He seems to
be a jumping Jack too.:)

[ramanth]

I'm so happy to hear you are feeling a little better Smokey. Lots of hugs and kisses for you!! :love::love:

[Louie and me]

Hey Smokey, Louie here. Try this OK? You put your front paws on the side of the bed and whine and huff and puff until your Dad gets out of bed and lifts you on. Getting off is a bit harder but groaning and panting usually works and they lift you down again to keep you quiet.

[cassiesmom]

SmokeMuttz, how's your knee? I hope it is much better, so you can have tons of fun at the PT Dog Park Picnic.
One of your many fans,
Elyse

[joycenalex]

smokey, when angel duke, a really good dog, was getting slow and his arthritis was painful, i got a hollow core door, stapled a carpet runner on both ends and laid it on the stairs like a ramp so he wouldn't have to use the stairs. and as more time passed, i put the big bed on the floor for the last few months. suprisingly, a firm matress boxsprings helped my back for a while.
glad to read you're doing better, princess peanut sends tail wags.

[Cinder & Smoke]

:)

I'z HERE!

Still doin *jest PHINE* iffin you're askin me.

Dad sez we're just "maskin the problem" wiffa pillz ... but they TASTE *Yummie*!

Dad get kinda *krankie* when I do my PawSprings fur my krunchies ...
he getz reelie *krankie* when I get up eyeball-to-eyeball wiff him!
Why do Dads get so uppie-set?

RAMPz ??
No Fanks ... I'd rather *jump*.
Ohhhh, my ... QUIT Dat, Dad!

There he goz agin - >> grrrrindin << his toofies ... he otta stop doin dat.

THANKS fur allua Good Wishes!!

/s/ SmokeMutt (aka "Gimpy")

[Randi]

You know, Smokey, your dad is right - you ought to get the hang of using the ramp! No wonder he's grrrrindin << his toofies! The effect of those pills are covering up the pain you would have, and that's good AND bad!! Now listen to your dad and slow down a bit!

Fister and I hope you'll get better all the time - wiffout any mayor operations. We're keeping our paws and fingers crossed for you, and sending lots of positive thoughts. :) - and big hugs to dad!

[ramanth]

Silly Smoke Mutt! :D

[pitc9]

Glad you're doing well Smoke!

[RobiLee]

Thinkin' about ya SmokeMutt! Take care of yourself.

{{HUGS}}

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I just saw this. I'm so sorry but so glad Smokey is doing better. Lots and lots of prayers flying from here. The kats all have paws crossed too.

Smokey, take it from someone else who has a bum knee, accept all the help you can get. You'll feel better in the long run!!! :love::love:

[Cinder & Smoke]

Today is an Important Vet Day for SmokeMutt ...
We're going back to see Doc B for a re-X-ray of Smoke's Bum Knee.

A month ago Doc B said it "looked like a black hole" = not good. :(
If it has "changed" in any way; that's really BAD news -
indicating a probable tumor.
NO Change is 'better bad news' = indicating the knee is just
"all screwed up mechanically" (but probably not 'fixable').

I talked to Doc Mike yesterday when I dropped in to buy MiniMutt her
heartworm chewies ... Dr. Mike said the 'next step up' after his friends
at the Crago Clinic is a large practice in Akron/Canton - an hour west of
here. We'll get a referral to them if there's bad news from today's X-ray.
After Akron/Canton, the next step is Ohio State's College of Vet Medicine.

But if you ask Smokey >>>
"Nuffin's wrong - I'z jest *PHINE*! - No Worries!"

And if you'd seen him running like a deer at the Dawg Park, or doing
paw-springs to touch the back of my neck or ear on the way out -
you'd wonder what this phuss is all about.

Sadly, it IS a real problem, and now the lil Prayer Pup, and his Dad,
could really use some of those PT Prayers.

And a lil Prayer for MiniMutt would be appreciated, too.
She goes in with Smokey today to see HER Doc - this 'might be' her
Bandage OFF day when we see the New Paw for the first time.

Wish us Luck, please.
THANKS, Gang!!

/s/ Phred aka DogDad

[Karen]

Good luck to both pups, we'll be thinkin' of them!

[cyber-sibes]

Sibe vibes & prayers going out for SmokeMutt & co.!

[Ginger's Mom]

Prayers said and paws crossed for both pups.

[kimlovescats]

Prayers sent up for both of your puppers!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Prayers still on the way from me for both puppers and you too! :love:

[4 Dog Mother]

Phred,

I've been thinking of all of you since the weekend. I had it in my head that you were going to the vet on Tuesday. Will be anxious to hear what the vet has to say about both Smokey and Heidi. If you get as far as being recommended to Ohio State find out upfront on how much just walking in the door will cost you. It was sticker shock for me but we also went in as an emergency after hours case too. Also remember that they don't think about money at all in the tests and medications they may recommend or even if the next test will give them an answer that would change the treatment plan. They had me in such a tizzy that even having Amy along didn't help me with the confusion of what was best to do for Snoopy and for our family as the meds could have some very bad side effects that could effect everyone. I was so glad I called our vets and was able to talk to one of them. She gave me a different perspective to all of it.

Hope the news is good for you all.

Diana

[Cincy'sMom]

Been thinking about you guys today! Hope all is/went well for both Smoke and mini-Mutt!

[captain]

Phred,
You are in my thoughts today .......... {hugs} to Smoke-Mutt.

[Cinder & Smoke]

:)

THANKS, God!!!
&
THANKS, PTers!!!

Those PT Prayers did their Magic
and God musta been lissnin!!


Bipp & MiniBipp (who looked like Mutt & Jeff when they pranced in to
the Clinic), pigged out on bisquits from the office staff during check-in.
We all crowded into the powder room for a minute, then soaked up more
attention at the counter. Doc D brought a chart to the counter, then
began to fawn over her 'favorite' mini-patient. SmokeMutt was NOT to be
ignored, and Doc raved about how 'soft' his fur was. I said Fish Oil Pills did
it, and it became obvious SHE was a Fish Oil Fan, too.

I took the opportunity to suggest I wouldn't be unhappy if Heidi got
another bandage to protect the tender spots on her "new paw". Doc D
admitted she'd tought about that, too. She promised to give the paw a
very close exam before deciding on NO bandage. "Here, I'll take her back!"
And off trotted Heidi with her Favorite Doc!

SmokeMutt and I were sent to an exam room; Doc B rushed in and asked
how the Smokester was doing. "Like a New Dawg after a few Rimadyls" I
said. Doc palpated his knee with no objection by Smokey.
"I don't think he has a tumor in there, but let's make sure. I'll send the
X-ray Tech in to get him."

Heidi returned with a >grinning< Doc B in tow ... and MiniMutt did have a
bright new wrapper on the foot. Doc said till she builds up a callus where
tha pad is missing at the base of her toes, we'd better protect the new
skin. OK by me! We return on Wednesday IF we keep it dry till then.

Twenty minutes later Doc B came back and said Smokey was OK except
for a bad case of Arthritis in that knee - NO TUMOR!! :D
He's now OFF the Rimadyl unless he has a relapse of knee pain ... then he
gets a few days of Rimadyl until the pain stops.

We bought a few more shares of Vet Stock at the counter, made a 10:30
am Appointment on Wednesday for MiniMutt, and we ALL pranced out!

So tender-foot Heidi is making GOOD progress;
and Gimpy SmokeMutts has his trick knee back - but it won't kill him.
I'd say it was a GREAT DAY at the Vets!!

:)
:D

THANKS to One & ALL
for your thoughts, Prayers, & Well-Wishes!!

/s/ Smokey, Heidi, DAD, & Cinder, too! ;)

[4 Dog Mother]

What wonderful news, Phred!!!! I am just about ready for bed - need an early night tonight after some late ones with the grandkids - and thought I better check in. Makes me feel so much better that both of the dogs are doing better. Now it's dad's turn, I believe!

[joycenalex]

WOOO-HOOOO!!! happy dance!!!

[Grace]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/March16th/wheee.gif Oh happy day http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/March16th/bliss.gif

[captain]

Ohh Phred. That is GR8 news!!!

[K9karen]

*Sigh of relief*

Mz Logan says to *hang in there Smokes* She has bad hips at her tender age but manages to run and compete with the bunny hoppin' bunnies!

Lots of lovin' hugs and smoochies to our buddies on the Ranch!

[gini]

THANKS, GOD, FOR LISTENING.

YOU GOT THE MESSAGE THAT WE LOVE THESE PUPS A LOT AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!

[Catty1]

YEEEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!!!

WONDERFUL news!

Phred, any chance that the Smoke-Mutt will need some arthuritis medication (Metacam or some such?)? More fish oil? A glucosamine blend?

Glad he's feeling better - hope he doesn't miss his Happy Pillz too much! ;)