My old Ash has kidney failure...advice plse..

[carole]

Some of you may have already read my sad news regarding my elderly cat Ash, Ash had his dental recently and i was told the news he has kidney failure, about 75 per cent of the function is gone.

We have opted on the vets advice to give him a pill half a day which is specially for cats like Ash who also has a heart murmur.

Any advice would be appreciated, I am very sad about it all, but have to come to terms with it and am hopeful we will still have some good years ahead with him.

The vet advised us the pills would be better than diet, so his diet will remain much the same, however i would like advice on this too, some people are keen on dry food others are not, personally i am more keen to feed him wet food, as he is very partial to it anyhow, and that is just my thoughts on it, however not so good for his teeth, which we have just had all scaled and polished and two of them removed, at least now he is not having to deal with bad teeth anymore.

Please feel free to post your thoughts and advice, i will be waiting to hear from you all thanking you in advance.

[emily_the_spoiled]

Carole, I am so very sorry to read about Ash. I am currently dealing with something similar right now (one of my foster's has kidney failure). I am feeding him only wet food (with a few crunchy cat treats). That helps increase the amount of water he is taking in, which is a good thing in kidney failure.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I'm so sorry to read about your cat Ash. :(

I know that kidney failure is common in older cats. My first cat ever, Yogi, was diagnosed with kidney failure at about the age of 15, but she still had a very good quality of life until she died at 17.

I think canned food would probably be best because cats get a lot of their moisture from food.

You and your cat Ash will be in my thoughts.

[Taz_Zoee]

Carole, I'm sorry to hear about Ash. This is one of my (and I'm sure many others) greatest fears. Taz's numbers are slowly moving toward the bad. But it's slow enough I don't have to do anything about it......yet.
I feed Taz wet food twice a day and have dry food available to him at all times. He has past dental issues, he had a fang removed a couple years ago.
I'm sorry I do not have any advice for you, but I'm sure there are many PTers who can help you and Ash through this tough time.

[Queen of Poop]

My dear old dogger is on a canned low protein food. I know that they have it for kitties too. It provides extra moisture and lower protein so her kidneys don't have to work so hard.

Please give Ash a kiss for me.

[catmandu]

I THINK THAT THERE ARE SPECIAL VET FOODS FOR THIS, I THINK EUKANUBA HAS ONE SPECIFICALLY FOR OLDER CATS WITH KIDNEY ISSUES.
OTHER THAN THAT ALL YOU CAN DO IS MAKE ASH WARM AND COMFORTABLE.
PRAYERS ARE COMING FROM ALL OF US FOR YOUR DEAR COMPANION.:love::love:

[Medusa]

I could swear that I already posted about this but since I've been w/out a computer for a few days, I'm not sure where my head is. I'm sorry to hear about Ash but renal failure can be managed for quite a long time. My Puddy is in CRF and I've been giving her subQ's for a couple of years now and she just keeps going like the Energizer bunny. She's also operating on one kidney and that kidney has nephritis but the subQ's help immensely. I keep a supply of Clindamycin on hand because she's prone to bladder infections and the sooner that's gotten under control, the better. She's on KD canned, which she loves most of the time and other times she'll turn up her nose but that's a cat for ya. Did your vet tell you that Ash needs subQ's? If so, it's really easy to do it yourself. It saves money but, more importantly, it saves stress on Ash because the subQ will go more smoothly seeing that Mom is the one who will be sticking in the needle. Also, Puddy is on aluminum hydroxide gel which is a phosphorous binder and it also acts as an antacid, which is helpful in CRF cats. If there is anything that you need to ask, Carole, please feel free to PM me. Puddy and I are w/ya! :)

[carole]

Thank you all for your kind words and advice.

I have decided to keep Ash on the wet food with some biscuits for his teeth,ideally special food would be great i guess, but i have to pay for his pills every month, the vet advised me that the pills were a better option for him., i simply cannot afford to do both,it is a struggle even for the pills, but i have decided there are some things in life i can do without and that is what i am going to do,no big hardship, i can give up something i love for my cat who i love even more.

As for Sub Q's i am absolutely terrified of the thought of having to do that, i don't know that i can, the vet never mentioned it to me, i think i will take him to the vets if absolutely necessary, i am hoping the pills will help him alot, they are for his heart condition and renal failure.

We still need to get a urine sample done, to check the values again as when they were originally done he had been hydrated, so that can make a difference, hoping they come back better than the original.

I am just a bit gutted, even though Ash is turning 13 this year, he is still not that old, of course he could be older or younger as it is guess work, we adopted him as a stray when he was around five years old , the vet guessed his age by his teeth i think, if i remember rightly, so one never knows for sure how old my boy is, but he certainly is not a young cat that's for sure.

[Medusa]

As for Sub Q's i am absolutely terrified of the thought of having to do that, i don't know that i can, the vet never mentioned it to me, i think i will take him to the vets if absolutely necessary, i am hoping the pills will help him alot, they are for his heart condition and renal failure.

I know, I said the same thing but, after a few tries, I mastered it and now I do it w/out even thinking about it. It can be expensive if you have to take Ash to the vet for them because, given that he has only 25% kidney function, he may need them quite often. Puddy needed them twice a day in the beginning, then daily, now she's on them every other day. My vet was charging $10 a visit and that was cheap. My other vet, a specialist, would've charged a lot more. This way, I pay $10 a bag, plus the cost of lines and needles, and the bag lasts for 6 treatments. It definitely saves money. Talk to your vet and see what s/he says and I'm sure s/he'll be happy to show you how to do it. Have no fear. It's easy. :)

[kb2yjx]

Please do not fear the sub q's, if in time that is what needs to be done. I taught my husband how to do them!!! However, all the cats that Barry could do, have gone to the Bridge. The current ones, Norrton and Raven, are a bit difficult and he leaves them to me.

Regarding diet. I have come to the understanding, that if the cat refuses to eat the
" kidney " diet, then the diet does no good. Right now, I have one kidney cat on I/D(also have liver problems), and the other, absolutley REFUSES to eat the K/D, so is eating Pet Promise Chicken, and loving it!!! Our Molly Meu ate Friskies for years, before she decided to stop, and then ate Fancy Feast!!!

There is a nice site, Tanya's Feline CRF Information Centre. It is site that is run by a woman who has dealt with kidney disease in 2 of her cats. The section on nutrition is excellent!!!

GOOD LUCK, and prayers for your Ash....

[momcat]

I'm very sad to hear that your sweet Ash is not well. I'm sorry but all I can offer both of you is many, many prayers. Could I ask you to give Ash some gentle feel better lovies from me? And [[[[[HUGS]]]]] for you :love:

[catlover32648]

Sorry to hear about ash!! I hope days get better for you & her :)

[phesina]

All our prayers for dear Ash.

[carole]

Thank you everyone, Ash is doing ok, he is much the same as he has been for a while now, up and down, he is eating quite well, little and often, and seems keen on this gourmet wet canned food, it is mostly salmon flavoured, so for now that is what he is getting, i do want him to have some biscuits later on when his mouth is healed, i am amazed at how great his teeth now look, so sparkly and white, and even his gums look good, the dental has done wonders for him, i just have to keep them looking that way.

I am seriously considering buying some animal toothpaste and toothbrushes, the vet nurse said just buy the babies ones from the supermarket and cleaning my furbabies teeth once a day if they will let me,i am sure i will be in for some fun, but it would be well worth my efforts if indeed i did not have to have expensive dentals done on them and better for them too, well we might give it a go later on.

I bought these treats for the two kitties getting pilled, then i remembered Ash cannot eat biscuits yet, he smelt them and seemed keen, all other three turned their noses up at them, they were catnip biscuits,hmm some treat indeed, feel like writing to the makers and telling them three out of four cats would not even touch them,Ash might not even like them either, we shall see, he gets his teeth check up on wed, so hope that all goes well.

I really cannot afford to have Ash on a special diet, i just have to do my best, i already have one kitty on a special diet, and the pills are 35 dollars a month, so that is the best i can do for him at this stage, however i am going to look for low protein food if possible, i see most of the biscuits are very high, so would be better he only have a little of those for his teeth i think.

As for the sub Q's, no mention of that so far from the vet, i cannot imagine myself ever doing that, i cannot stand the thought of putting a needle into him at all,but i guess if it makes him better and has to be done, i will step up to the mark,shivering in my boots lol.

[Emeraldgreen]

I'm in agreement with what Mary and others have said in their posts. Fluids, fluids, fluids! My RB cat Jade was diagnosed with kidney failure and it was found during blood testing for an upcoming dental as well! My vet gave her a poor prognosis. She was 16 at the time and I was devastated. At first my vet wanted her on Benazapril chews for her organs and fluids done by the techs and low protein diet.
BUT... she wouldn't eat the special diet and was losing weight so my vet said just feed her whatever she likes. Fancy Feast and Friskies were her favourites and she ate that with gusto! I stopped the meds because they were very expensive and I simply couldn't afford them at the time. (Jade didn't have a heart murmer though like Ash and my vet wasn't entirely sure the meds would help her condition anyway).
I also started doing the fluids at home and it's really affordable this way and much less stressful on the cat. Jade went on to live to 21 years old. Don't give up hope!!
p.s. I know you said you're not sure about giving him fluids yourself but if you see that he is getting dehydrated (has that separated fur look and can be more lethargic) you can ask your clinic to set up a time with the tech and they can do a treatment in 10 minutes or so and show you how. You could watch them do it for a few weeks and then decide if you want to give it a try or not. You can get a smaller gauged needle that is very fine and it goes in very smoothly. I used to give it to Jade just between her shoulder blades. Once you've put the needle in, that's the worst part. After that the fluids drip in for 5 or 10 minutes and then the cat tends to feel so good afterwards and have much more energy.

[AbbyMom]

Carole, my RB Quasar had kidney failure, too. My vet told me to give her fluids three times a week and at first I couldn't do it. I couldn't stand to "hurt her" like that all the time.

But I did learn to do it because it made her feel so much better. And took it like a champ. But, Quasar had only one kidney from birth, so she did not last much longer even with the treatments. :(

Like Emeraldgreen said, if you use a very fine needle, I don't think it hurts much at all. In fact, it has to be very sharp, too. She never put up a fuss, which amazed me at first.

Good luck to you and Ash.

[Medusa]

Like Emeraldgreen said, if you use a very fine needle, I don't think it hurts much at all. In fact, it has to be very sharp, too. She never put up a fuss, which amazed me at first.

I've chosen to use a heavy gauge needle. Yes, the initial prick hurts a little but the treatment itself lasts only 5 minutes or so as opposed to much longer if you use a very fine needle. I use a fresh needle each time, to make sure that it's really sharp and Puddy now takes her treatments like a champ. It would be much more stressful on her to have the treatments take up to possibly 30 minutes as opposed to 5 minutes. :)

[AbbyMom]

I've chosen to use a heavy gauge needle. Yes, the initial prick hurts a little but the treatment itself lasts only 5 minutes or so as opposed to much longer if you use a very fine needle. I use a fresh needle each time, to make sure that it's really sharp and Puddy now takes her treatments like a champ. It would be much more stressful on her to have the treatments take up to possibly 30 minutes as opposed to 5 minutes. :)

In thinking back (this was 12 years ago), I believe you are right--the larger needle was best because it didn't take as long. But it did have to be sharp. I had forgotten that I started using a fresh one every day.

[Emeraldgreen]

I've chosen to use a heavy gauge needle. Yes, the initial prick hurts a little but the treatment itself lasts only 5 minutes or so as opposed to much longer if you use a very fine needle. I use a fresh needle each time, to make sure that it's really sharp and Puddy now takes her treatments like a champ. It would be much more stressful on her to have the treatments take up to possibly 30 minutes as opposed to 5 minutes. :)


In thinking back (this was 12 years ago), I believe you are right--the larger needle was best because it didn't take as long. But it did have to be sharp. I had forgotten that I started using a fresh one every day.

It is important that the needle be changed each time for comfort and for bacteria that can grow in the needle inbetween treatments.

The needle I used to use was a 20 gauged one I think and it was a pink colour. It didn't take that much longer for me to get 100 mls into her, maybe about 10 minute total. In the end, it was a better choice for both of us because I had a harder time pushing the larger needle in and then she in turn had a harder time. We did the treatments for years and the 10 minutes sessions turned into her massage time as well. I would hang on to her so she wouldn't take off and would massage her in different parts of her body to distract her from the fluids going in. She seemed to put up with it very well and after the 'bulge' of water disappeared in a few hours, LOOK OUT!! :) She was full of beans and would race up and down the stairs like a crazy cat. It was so great to see her feeling good at those times.

[carole]

I have not made any decisions regarding sub Q's at this stage,(i also read some negative sides to Sub Q's which worried me as well) i will be seeing the vet on Wednesday for Ash's post dental check up, and will discuss it with her, i have the utmost faith in my Vet, so will be following her advice, however i am not opposed to other suggestions either, whatever works and is best for the old fella, having read about it online,it sounds like they really do not feel great most of the time, which is apparent in Ash at the moment, of course he is still on antibiotics and his new pill which may well indeed take some adjusting to, i know kitties can live a long time with this condition, but i have to ask is it really the ideal thing to do, please don't take this the wrong way, there is no way i want to put Ash to sleep, but i certainly don't want him miserable either.


In my opinion Ash has not really picked up much since we came home from his dental, he had a couple of days he seemed happier, but in general he does not seem himself, i do think his new pills are affecting him somewhat,he has been keeping his food down much better though, but i guess that will be temporary, i did give him a little treat today,and i think it was the wrong thing to do because he had his first vomit to my knowledge in a week, i felt bad afterwards and wish i had not given it to him.

The whole thing really concerns me and frightens me,even though you have all given me hope and advice, i cannot help but feel despondent about his condition,and extremely saddened by it as well.

[kb2yjx]

Anesthesia is excreted out of the body via the kidneys. That might be a reason why Ash is not feeling up to snuff just yet. Can you please post on what you found out about the
" negatives " about sub q's. The only thing I can think of is giving too much fluids and resulting in congestive failure. BUT the vet is very specific when letting one know how much fluid to give. When our kidney cats have dentals, Dr. Deb wants them to have fluids several days before and after the dental procedure is done.

None of us want our cats to be sick/uncomfortable, we have the power to help them to have the very best quality of life that is possible. But, we also must realize that, as I told
my very first kidney cat, MissBooBoo kitty, I cannot cure you, you are not going to get better, and will not live forever. BUT, I promise you no pain, no suffering, and the BEST quality of life...Boo proceeded to live another three years!!! HANG IN THERE...

[Medusa]

One other thing that I forgot to mention: when I was first told that Puddy needed to have subQ's administered, I was wary of it and discussed w/both Dr. Lee and my other vet if I should instead consider helping her to the Bridge. I was totally uneducated when it came to subQ's and I thought that Puddy would just be miserable, especially given her temperament at that time, which was Hell Cat on Wheels. Dr. Lee said point blank "You'll be selling Puddy short if you do that. She'll be fine once you get the hang of it." He was right. That was a couple of years ago and, yes, she does have her bad spells but don't we all? SubQ's have helped Puddy tremendously, she feels pretty good most of the time, she's purred more in the last couple of years than she did most of her life because she had been feeling so crummy all that time and, best of all, she's become a real lovebug, to me anyhow. LOL I can't imagine what the downside would be of giving subQ's. You'd have to give her an awful lot before you would do her any damage. Both of my vets told me "You can't hurt her". Keep the faith, Carole. :)