Issues with the Yorkie I put a deposit on..

[kt_luvs_kitties]

So, I wont delve completely into the whole story about my new baby yorkie, but I am starting to get a really bad feeling about the situation, and whether the breeder has decided to keep her... She is tiny, like
10 ounces at almost 12 weeks tiny. The breeder sells her tiniest ones for twice as much. She did not know she was going to be this tiny when I put her on hold. ANYWAYS, If I do not get her, or get to atleast see her by Sunday, then I was thinking about maybe adopting a new girl. I know there are not any compatible yorkies anywhere near me at rescues, but I did find Yaki....
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11364855

And needless to say, I put in an application on her. She is adorable and needs a home. I like that she is a rescue and came from a puppy mill. It would help spread the word, and would help me get over losing my baby if the breeder backs out on me... Which I would not put past her lately:rolleyes:

What do you think?

[k9krazee]

I think any place that wants to sell the "tiny ones for twice as much" should be steered away from. I, personally, wouldn't ever go to that so-called "breeder".

[kt_luvs_kitties]

PLEASE believe me when I say, " She was perfect.... UNTIL the money was handed over".

She NEVER answers my calls. She is always too busy for me to stop by. I researched over a year, she does testing on her dogs, only breeds once a year. Has a waiting list... Dogs and pups are well vetted and kept in great conditions. It is not her dogs that I worry about, its her business side that I worry about.

She just does not know how to do business, if she treats people that way.

[Scooter's Mom]

Will she give your deposit back?

[kt_luvs_kitties]

She did offer it back, but I told her that I would wait for the puppy. I want to see her again before a decision is made. I have not seen her since she was 2 weeks old. I already feel as though she is mine, but then again, I feel like she does not want me to have her so she can either keep her or resell her. I dont know what to do. But now I feel a little regret, and alot desperate.

[shais_mom]

what a cutie!
I think you would feel much better about rescuing this baby on petfinder, (and possibly her sister too! ;))
I just hope the crazy woman gives you your deposit back.
If not I'd contact the Better Business Bureau. I can't imagine a dog under a pound! wow:eek:

[Pam]

what a cutie!
I think you would feel much better about rescuing this baby on petfinder, (and possibly her sister too! ;))
I just hope the crazy woman gives you your deposit back.
If not I'd contact the Better Business Bureau. I can't imagine a dog under a pound! wow:eek:

I've sort of got to agree with Staci on this one. I :love: the cutie on Petfinder. Regarding "tiny" dogs..... I was in the vet's waiting room one day and there was a precious little "teacup" :rolleyes: poodle there. I got talking to the owner (no surprise there) and asked about the splint on one of her front legs. The owner told me that she broke that leg just by sliding across the floor and bumping into a chair. She had previously broken the other one as well. :eek: The woman told me that dogs that small have bones like toothpicks. This might be a thought worth considering. Good luck whatever happens! I look forward to seeing ANY new addition! ;)

[Taz_Zoee]

Katie, I'd probably go with the puppy on petfinder. This breeder sounds shady and you shouldn't get involved. I just hope she'll give you the deposit back. But if she isn't responding or answering calls......:confused:.
I know you had your heart set on the yorkie, but this other pup needs a home worse than the yorkie. And it's just as cute! :)
Good luck with whatever happens. :D

[moosmom]

Katie,

I think backyard breeders are scumbag greedy $#%^& along with seedy ambulance chasers and car salesmen.

I hope your application is approved!!;)

[boomersooner]

I just think Yorkies are supposed to be a certain size, and breeders who purposely breed them to be smaller and smaller are just producing poor weak animals who do break bones easily and are prone to a lot of other illnesses and injuries......I had a standard dachshund when I was a kid....pretty big...then came the miniature dachshund...a little smaller but still fine...A lady I knew had a miniature toy dachshund....I had never heard of that before...he was sooooooo small..even has an adult, he was like the size of a rat, I was always afraid I would step on him....I think you would be better served to get the rescue yorkies....everyone in the long run will be better off...

[pitc9]

I think any place that wants to sell the "tiny ones for twice as much" should be steered away from. I, personally, wouldn't ever go to that so-called "breeder".

I agree 100%!
If you can get your money back from her I would run, not walk away from that breeder!

The cutie pie on petfinder is adorable!
It's always rewarding to adopt and rescue!
:D

[Freedom]

I think my siggy says all you need to know about my thoughts on rescue. :D

You'll need to read up on the Japanese Chin a bit, if the petfinder doggie comes home to you!

[Ginger's Mom]

I LOVE Japanese Chins. I do think Sandy had very good advice to you though on reading up on the breed before you get one. Two things come to mind, first I think that Chins are quite a bit bigger than Joey or the Yorkie you were looking into (like 16 pounds), and although they are an affectionate breed they can be quite stand-offish. And although Japanese chin do not have the bulging eyes that some Asian dogs have, I would still be careful with the kitties. She is adorable. :) Good luck.

[jennielynn1970]

Omg... the absolutely angelic face on little Yaki!! My heart is in a puddle on the floor. The poor little girl was in a puppy mill?! I just don't understand how people run those things.

I say, get your money back from the business woman with bad business sense, give her a handbook on how to deal with customers while you're at it, and then get Yaki!!

[kt_luvs_kitties]

If I dont get Yaki OR my yorkie then I think I will keep looking into yorkies, since I have wanted one for 10 years. I did not know Chins get that large, I thought maybe 10 pounds and under, since the two I met were TINY! I would not feel comfortable with a larger dog with my kitties OR Joey. He is 2 pounds so I wanted a small dog with him, so he could play. I really wanted a yorkie that was about 4-6 pounds. I dont know what to do yet.

Ps- Not taking up for her, but I dont think she purposely breeds them to be small, I believe she is just the runt. And with all the tcup crap going around, and the HIGH demand for smaller ones, she saw more $$$. Back in the day, the runt was MUCH cheaper, not twice as much. :rolleyes:

[lizbud]

I'd go with the rescue every time.:) I never encourage small owner/breeders who do it for the money.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Thank you all for the advice. I still pray I get my yorkie, but I guess I wont be devastated if it doesnt work out. I still have my hopes up I get her this weekend, if not, then I will keep looking:)

[K9karen]

Katie,

I think backyard breeders are scumbag greedy $#%^& along with seedy ambulance chasers and car salesmen.

I hope your application is approved!!;)


:confused: Donna? How do you really feel??? :p

[3muttsandaboston]

I don't see why you couldn't have a 16 pound dog with cats and a 2 pound dog. I have a 70 pound dog with cats. As long as the pup grows up with the chi they should get along just fine. Heck on another forum someone has a 225 pound mastiff with a 2 pound chihuahua.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

I just would not feel comfortable with it. Plus the cats are NOT dog friendly, I dont think they know Joey is a dog!

I dont think the dog would purposely hurt him, but unintentionally.

[Giselle]

Ps- Not taking up for her, but I dont think she purposely breeds them to be small, I believe she is just the runt. And with all the tcup crap going around, and the HIGH demand for smaller ones, she saw more $$$.
I'm sorry to be blunt, but your breeder is straight up breeding for money.

That's not the right reason to breed. In my book, she's a dreaded backyard breeder. I really don't mean to offend, but I do love Toy breeds myself (Pekes are my heart breed) and I have a *major* issue with BYBs. Toy breeds, especially, have a plethora of health problems ranging from PRA to luxating patellas - both of which are prevalent in the Yorkie breed. Does your breeder even test for these via OFA and CERF?

If your breeder never even mentioned the above, please pull out your deposit or take it as a lesson learned and run the other way. I say this as the unfortunate purchaser of a BYB-bred dog. I did it before I knew any better and I regret it deeply. But now you know!

[kt_luvs_kitties]

I am currently looking at other breeders online;)

Anyone want to help? I live in NC and will NOT ship a dog:D

[Giselle]

Have you checked the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America?

http://www.ytca.org/breeder1.html

There are a lot of Yorkies in rescue, too.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Thank you. I am looking now:D

[Giselle]

I really encourage you to check out rescues first. Because Yorkies are so popular in pet stores and such, there is usually a large number of Yorkies in rescue.

Yorkshire Terrier Rescue Network, Inc.
Dr. Dale A Heisler, DVM
2311 Freeway Dr.
Reidsville, NC 27320
(336)349-4918 fax: (336)349-7639
[email protected]
http://www.yorkshireterrierrescue.net

United Yorkie Rescue Inc (serves all states)
http://www.yorkierescue.org


But if you do decide to go to a breeder, be absolutely sure you're going to a breeder who's breeding ethically. It's not enough to bring their dogs to the vet every year for check-ups. They MUST health test their dogs via OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) and CERF (Canine Eye Registration Foundation). In fact, those two tests are now required by the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America. If you find a breeder you like, demand to see the dogs' test results of PRA (progressive retinal atrophy), luxating patellas, thyroid, and perhaps Legg-Calve-Perthes. If the breeder hasn't even heard of these tests or assures you they've never had these diseases appear in their stock, run the other way. They're simply trying to sell you a product, but you're looking for a responsibly bred puppy. It may take awhile, but it is worth it. :)

[kt_luvs_kitties]

I talked to a breeder today, and she has one female left. She said that she does genetic and/or congenital(sp?) test prior to breeding. She said that I MUST sign a spay contract PRIOR to picking up the puppy and do a house check. Of course she is pet quality(could never afford a show quality!) She also said that I have a health guarantee. I made an appointment to meet with her and the puppy and parents later this week.

What should I look for?

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Forgot to add, is it normal to withhold or not give papers to me until the dog is fixed?

[Giselle]

Yep. That's actually the responsible thing to do :) To the public, "papers" make a dog sound pretty and fancy and $$$. They're often used as a marketing gimmick, and a lot of byb's use papers to sell more puppies. This breeder is withholding the papers to force you to fix your animal, thereby taking your potential marketing gimmick away. It's a common technique. That and limited registration are both measures to prevent pet-quality animals from being bred.

She can talk the talk, but does she actually walk the walk? Ask to see proof that her breeding dogs have been tested. Again, they will be most likely be OFA and CERF tested, so look for the acronyms if you can't quite make the papers out.

Here are samples of the OFA reports: http://www.offa.org/samplecerts.html

Edit: Ask her about the health guarantee. Health guarantees are tricky because a lot of diseases are influenced by both genetics and the environment. A GREAT health guarantee would be a lifetime guarantee. A decent health guarantee would be at least 3 years. A skimpy guarantee is 1 year or a couple months. Congenital defects often don't show up until the dog has hit maturity.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Good to know. I was worried it might be a bad thing! It sure sounds like a bad thing. I am going to write down those names, and bring them with me. I would also like to ask to speak to her vet before putting down any money. Would it be "acceptable" to do that?

I forgot to add(after looking at the sample that she did say she did specific testing for knees and hips. Is that what the OFA report is?

[Giselle]

The Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) gathers information about knees, hips, elbows, thyroid, and other orthopedic ailments. So, yes, OFA reports would be what she means by "testing their hips and knees". FYI, she's probably testing "luxating patellas" when she means testing knees. ;) Just so you don't get confused by the medical jargon.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't contact her vet unless she was really sketchy. If she health tests her dogs and participates with them in sports regularly (i.e. showing them), I don't see a huge benefit in contacting her vet. A vast majority of vets cannot or will not speak negatively about their clients to another person. It's a whole liability and confidentiality thing, so I don't think you'd gain much valuable insight if you did contact her vet. However, you can't really lose anything, so if she happily agrees to let you speak to her vet, go ahead!

Edit: Can I also say I'm absolutely elated that you're being so dedicated to doing it the ethical way? :) Over the years, I'm sure we all run into folks who don't know how to really check out breeders; we try to give them advice and they usually don't respond. But seeing you respond so heartily really made my day! Kudos!

[kt_luvs_kitties]

I felt/feel kinda stupid asking all of these questions, that I am sure many people know about. But truly I dont. I know very little, I have never bought any animal (besides adoption fees and hamsters when I was little:p) , So I truly am igonorant to the dos and donts.

I know not to buy from pet shops, or a dog that has no papers because their parents arent registered. I just never had to learn it. The more I know the better, I want a healthy happy dog that will not get sick, or not have parents who suffer in mills and overbreeding:(

Thank you so much for your help:D

PS- I will be picking up my deposit tomorrow from the first breeder;) I just feel bad for the pup, and who ends up with her.

[krazyaboutkatz]

I hope that everything works out for you and that you're able to adopt the female Yorkie from this breeder.:) I'm also glad to hear that you'll be able to get your deposit back from the other breeder.:) Good luck.:)

[Catlady711]

Sorry to hear that the puppy didn't work out for you. I hope you find another one that will be healthy and very happy with you.

On a side note; as a vet assistant I can't count how many times we've had clients come in that were promised vaccination papers etc and the original owner/breeder never did provide them. We just usually assume that there never were any papers to begin with. If someone wants to hold back papers I'd be very leary, or at least demand to see the papers with your own eyes first. JMHO

[Spiritwind]

On a side note; as a vet assistant I can't count how many times we've had clients come in that were promised vaccination papers etc and the original owner/breeder never did provide them. We just usually assume that there never were any papers to begin with. If someone wants to hold back papers I'd be very leary, or at least demand to see the papers with your own eyes first. JMHO

I think when she asked if it was normal for the breeder to with hold "papers" until the dog was spayed, she ment AKC registration papers.. not vaccination papers.

Obviously you should get all medical/health/vaccinations records when you get the puppy.. its not uncommon for responsible breeders to keep AKC registration papers until they get proof that the dog was spayed/neutered to prevent them from taking a registerable dog and breeding it..

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Yes I meant AKC papers, not vet records. the new breeder I talked to said she would give me her records. My vet said I MUST have the vaccine record or they are null and void.

I talked with the new breeder today, and I get to meet the new puppy TOMORROW! I cant wait. She is 11 1/2 weeks old, should be able to go with me *finger crossed* this weekend! I hope this all pans out ok.

[Giselle]

Nobody is ever born knowing. Knowledge is accumulated and shared. Now, when people ask you what to look for in a breeder, you can tell them. Look for one who health tests, who performs with their dogs, and who is breeding for the betterment of the breed. That's got to start them on the right foot :) Glad you picked up your deposit from the first breeder and are now going with the second breeder.

[lute]

This new breeder sounds ideal! Very reputable in how her dogs are cared for after they leave to home to the quality of the puppy itself! To keep the registration papers until the dog is spayed/neutered is a big thumbs UP! I would definately go this new breeder!

The rescue puppy is a good choice too! Rescue is ALWAYS a good way to go!

[Flatcoatluver]

I'm so excited for you! I was a little leary of the first yorkie breeder when you showed us the pictures.

I hope this new yorkie breeder works out for you, she sounds wonderful! PT people (esp. Giselle) was the one that taught me how to find a responsible breeder, I know exactly what kind of ship your sailing. ;)

[krazyaboutkatz]

Katie, were you able to meet with the new breeder and see the puppy? How did everything go?

[kt_luvs_kitties]

I did and she was precious! Small, fluffy, adorable. Yorkies all look alike pretty much as babies.. BUT I must admit she was more adorable than most. Of course I am quite biased :D I loved her and her breeder was super nice to me as well. I cant wait to spend my life with her!

Thank you for remembering;)

[kt_luvs_kitties]

She looks almost identical to this baby:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1406/princessns0.jpg

I had SO much going on I forgot my camera at home:(

I will get her within the next two days. Probably Thursday or Friday.

[jennielynn1970]

awe! how adorable!! my cousin and her family got a yorkie about 3 months ago. she is the cutest little thing on her pics she sends! she loves the 4yr old, and the cat and the older dog they have. Can't wait to see pics of yours!!

[Ginger's Mom]

Hehe, you are right, she is adorable. :D I can't wait until we meet her formally.:love:

[Pam]

Oh my gosh!!! :love::love::love: If the one you selected looks anything like the one in the picture I don't know how you are ever going to get anything done once she comes to live with you! I would just camp out on the floor and play, play play with her! :p I can't wait for the real pictures. Tell Joey we still love him too and maybe now we might see more of him as he gets to know his little sister. ;)

[krazyaboutkatz]

She's so adorable.:) I can't wait until you get her and post her pictures here. I'm sure she'll fit right in with your fur family.:)

[boomersooner]

Precious....just precious....no other word fits!! I'm glad everything is working out for you!