Whose Accountability?

[catnapper]

There's a situation someone I know is in.....

Someone was walking along the sidewalk in front of a business. The sidewalk was uneven and that person took a pretty embarassing tumble. The person brushed off the cement from their scrapes and continued their walk and swore they were fine to the person with whom they were walking. At the time, they thought they were fine, outside bruised pride. :cool:

A few hours later, their shoulder and knee were hurting enough for the stumbler to consider calling the doctor for an appointment the following day. Only the person doesn't want to foot the medical bill themselves and wants to make the business's insurance cover their trip to the doctor.

Ok, so who is accountable? The business, who should have had their sidewalks clean and even, or the person who should have been looking where they were walking?

Don't give me what you think I'm looking for. For all you know, the person I'm asking for is the business ;) Or they might be the stumbler :p

[moosmom]

I'm not a lawyer but I've worked as a Paralegal for 12 years and did alot of personal injury. Call a lawyer.

If it's the faller and they intend on suing, they need to get a lawyer. They in turn, will file suit against the city, as the sidewalk is public domain. If it's the business, I'm sure thy have a lawyer. I really don't think they'd have a case against the business. But again, that's my opinion and I'm not a lawyer.

Anyone else care to pipe in (ahem, Oh Johanna)

[RICHARD]

The city, in most areas is responsible for the care and repair of sidewalks-
In our area if you want to have a walkway put in you have to split the cost with the city. :confused:

Best bet it to start taking pics and pray.

[Husky_mom]

well... living in a country that does not even consider a businness paying you if you fall and fracture or whatnot in their sidewalk...

I would say the person should pay... I mean she (assuming she´s a she) was the one who fell.... if I fell I don´t blame anyone but me.. LOL... adn usually laugh it up...

IF.... IF.... out of 10 people passing by 8 or 9 or even 10 stumbled or fell I would consider making a reposrt so the sidewalk got fixed...

just like in school if a student flunks who´s the fault??.. the teacher or the student?... IF ALL students flunk who´s to blame??......

Medical bills might be expensive but one should learn to look where you are going and if you have an accident then be it...it could´ve happened anywhere... so why should others pay for our "stumbles"... unless as I said it where a situation where most of the people had suffered from teh conditions of the sidewalk... but even then I think the city is the one that should fix that..

[Jessika]

The business does not own the sidewalk, just like the business does not own the street in front of their business. The sidewalk is the city's job to maintain, so it is the city's responsibility for its upkeeping, not the businesses'.

Unless this was completely on private property (as in, the sidewalk outside walmart), in which case it IS the business' property.

I guess I really need more information -- where was the sidewalk, on a strip of businesses along a city street? a sidewalk in front of a store on private property in the parkinglot (think walmart or target)?

[caseysmom]

I personally believe there is not too much personal accountability anymore and think the person should have watched where they were going.

[jackie]

The person who fell should cover their own expenses.

[lizbud]

Unless this was completely on private property (as in, the sidewalk outside walmart), in which case it IS the business' property.

I guess I really need more information -- where was the sidewalk, on a strip of businesses along a city street? a sidewalk in front of a store on private property in the parkinglot (think walmart or target)?

That's right, more info is needed. Did she/he report the fall to the business?

[Karen]

As someone with a poor sense of balance, I consider it my own fault when I fall. It is my responsibility, as an adult human being, to be responsible for my own actions, and to be careful. If I am not careful, and I fall, it is my own fault. I can SEE if the sidewalk is uneven if I bother to look.

Does the "faller" not have health insurance? A lawsuit's gonna cost a whole lot more time and money than a doctor bill for a small fall ...

[K9soul]

I think people are way too sue-happy and we only end up paying for it with higher prices to accommodate everyone being sued.

Unless the business ran out and pushed her down or set up a trip-wire, I don't think the tripper has any reason to feel the business is accountable. :p Sidewalks are uneven sometimes, they get weathered and damaged. It's a fact of life. I've stumbled on curves or rocks or my own shoelaces, it happens. I could see someone having a case against the business if they slipped inside the business on a wet floor that had no wet floor sign and were badly injured, but not in this case. More than likely she has some muscle strain or soft tissue injuries from it that will heal just fine with a bit of time and some ibuprofen or other over-the-counter anti-inflammatory.

[ramanth]

I'm with the 'she should of watched where she was going' camp. :)

[jenluckenbach]

First off, I believe that in order to "blame" anyone (but yourself), you would have had to have reported the fall at the time of the accident. Otherwise, thier would be no documentation on record that the fall actually occured and WHERE!

2nd, while it would be nice if all sidewalks, roads, yards, parks, driveways, parking lots, beaches (etc) were perfectly safe to walk on, they are not!

3rd, in my most humble opinion, even if you COULD sue the business or the city, it is STILL the faller's fault. And as stated earlier, all these unnecessary law suits really help to sky rocket other costs. Even if you fell INSIDE a store, I feel it is frivolous to try to get money from them for your own clumsiness. Just like the person who spilled hot coffee in their own lap and then sued McDonalds :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So....legally, I do not know, but I sure hope this person, and a lot of other people, will just stop trying to get free money for things that simply happen in LIFE.

(hope that all made some sense) :o

[Lady's Human]

It's your responsibility to avoid unsafe situations. No walking surface is perfect. Maybe the business should be sued for making the sidewalk out of concrete instead of foam? After all someone is eventually going to fall on it and they should have forseen it.

[CathyBogart]

Are you serious? They need a good slap upside the head. They need to take responsibility for the fact that they weren't watching where they were walking. Grr....

[Sirrahsim]

At least the lady who sued McDonalds had a legal leg to stand on. It was McDs policy to keep the coffee at a higher than usual temp and she DID suffer bad burns.

Tripping on a sidewalk though?? Seriously?? Add me to the 'she should have watched where she was going' group.:D

[catnapper]

I Maybe the business should be sued for making the sidewalk out of concrete instead of foam?
That made me SMILE!!! :D

Yeah guys, I was torn here. Common sense told me that if you're a clumsy fool, then you're a clumsy fool! I myself trip a dozen times during any given walk. There's one corner where I trip on a nightly basis... I have no idea why I trip at the same corner. Its gotten to the point where I trip over myself during my attempt to avoid tripping. :rolleyes:.

Then again, WE were sued about 10 years ago for someone tripping on OUR sidewalk. Technically, since I didn't know hubby at the time, it wasn't MY sidewalk ;) I always understood it was the property owner's responsibility to keep their walk free and clear of hazzards; thats why we get the fun task of shoveling snow every winter.

I'm not one to sue.... I had a serious workers comp claim when I tore my rotator cuff a few months ago and refused to do anything about it. But based on the story, and how it unfolded, I felt the person had/has a legitimate claim.

[Jessika]

I always understood it was the property owner's responsibility to keep their walk free and clear of hazzards; thats why we get the fun task of shoveling snow every winter.

See I believe it is if its on private property. Like shoveling your driveway - no one says you HAVE to do it. I've never lived somewhere with a sidewalk in my front yard to know, but I do think that maybe you had to because of a neighborhood association? I know they "are law", so if they say you have to do it then you have to do it, but as far as legalities go outside of that, it just depends - WHO'S property is it on, public or private?

If someone slips on my sidewalk in my yard, then they were trespassing. If someone slips on walmart's sidewalk because they didn't ice it, that's a private property and I'm sure you could sue walmart. If someone slips on a sidewalk at the park, that's the city's duty.

I could be wrong, but this makes sense in my head.

[Catty1]

In the city of Calgary (where I do not live), homeowners are required to keep the walks in front of their house - ie, along the streets - clear of snow and ice. The walks ARE city property - but there are nowhere near enough resources to clear all the sidewalks in the city after a bad storm.

OT - in winter, the residential side streets get NO plowing at all...so the slowest speed zones in the city are filled with slippery grooves and ruts.

[Husky_mom]

funny thing that has been on my mind since I first posted....

what if I fell/tripped while walking in the mountains??.... who could I sue??... LOL....

on a more serious note... here you are "by law" requiered to keep sidewalks walkable... plenty of people here use to have junk cars on them... adn they are required to keep them off to prevent people from walikng on the streets and risking them to get hurt by a passing car....

I used " " in by law because still many people just don´t follow the "rule"...:rolleyes:

[Medusa]

See I believe it is if its on private property. Like shoveling your driveway - no one says you HAVE to do it. I've never lived somewhere with a sidewalk in my front yard to know, but I do think that maybe you had to because of a neighborhood association? I know they "are law", so if they say you have to do it then you have to do it, but as far as legalities go outside of that, it just depends - WHO'S property is it on, public or private?

If someone slips on my sidewalk in my yard, then they were trespassing. If someone slips on walmart's sidewalk because they didn't ice it, that's a private property and I'm sure you could sue walmart. If someone slips on a sidewalk at the park, that's the city's duty.

I could be wrong, but this makes sense in my head.

There's such a thing as "easement" which grants the right from one property owner to another to use a portion of his land for a specific purpose, in this case, a sidewalk. I can't say that I totally understand the law, not being an attorney, but I do know from experience that it gives me the right to walk up to someone's door and, for example, attempt to sell my goods to the homeowner, unless there is an expressed law w/in the city limits stating otherwise. I'm probably not stating this correctly but you get my drift. :p So if a person slips on your sidewalk in your yard, s/he wasn't trespassing; s/he was using the easement, which is legal.

[Jessika]

There's such a thing as "easement" which grants the right from one property owner to another to use a portion of his land for a specific purpose, in this case, a sidewalk. I can't say that I totally understand the law, not being an attorney, but I do know from experience that it gives me the right to walk up to someone's door and, for example, attempt to sell my goods to the homeowner, unless there is an expressed law w/in the city limits stating otherwise. I'm probably not stating this correctly but you get my drift. :p So if a person slips on your sidewalk in your yard, s/he wasn't trespassing; s/he was using the easement, which is legal.

I understand that, it makes sense. I suppose it depends on the person's reason for being on your property in the first place; what if some kids were skipping across some yards (at my parents kids used to cut across through my parents' back yard all the time to get to the road) and if they got hurt that way. That isn't a sidewalk, but what if they tripped and fell and hurt themselves on something in my yard while they were just taking a shortcut? That type of scenario. OR maybe I have a sidewalk leading around to my fenced backyard and they slip on that. IDK, I'm sure there's all sorts of amendments and sublaws and whathave you, man I'm sure it can get really complicated!

[catnapper]

So, I was walking Callie tonight and we were going past McDonald's. She was trotting along looking at the cars at the drive-through and I was busy laughing at how she was basically dancing along.... not paying attention... and oops..... down I went. I wonder, how will McDonald's pay me now? ;)

I've still been thinking of this situation. In the one I just personally experienced, I was completely at fault since I wasn't paying attention to where I was going. But what if a person WAS paying attention and still fell, like my friend? What if the business was negligent for the condition of their walk? I saw where they fell... actually I walked by it tonight after my McDonald's oops, and it's obvious that it's been like that for a long time and its hard to see unless you're looking for it. You have to hit it just right in order to get tripped up. I can actually SEE where they skidded!!! :eek:

This is basically a moot point because they didn't want to get into a fight... all they wanted was to not have Dr. bills. I can understand that -- been there myself! I was still intrigued by the concept, especially after my husband was sued 10 years ago for the same thing on our very own sidewalk. *shrug*

[Scooter's Mom]

I personally believe there is not too much personal accountability anymore and think the person should have watched where they were going.

I know this is the minority opinion but I wholeheartedly agree.

[RICHARD]

Maybe the business should be sued for making the sidewalk out of concrete instead of foam?



OR maybe........
http://www.rubbersidewalks.com/pdf/seattlepi.pdf


Only out west!!;)

[Pam]

I, too, think people are "sue happy" these days. A few years ago I fell on the ice on the sidewalk outside of my office. It had snowed and the owner of the building (not my boss....he rents) had hired some people to clear the parking lot and sidewalk and they had done a pretty terrible job. No salt had been put down and it was a sheet of ice with no safe place to step. I broke the tip of my elbow and paid for my ER visit and medication. People at my office said I should have at least submitted my out of pocket expenses (ER co-pay) to the owner of the building but I didn't bother. I do believe, however, that in most communities one is responsible if someone gets hurt on their sidewalk after a snow/ice storm. Supposedly snow must be cleared with 24 hrs. or so after it snows.

[Catlady711]

I think the whole matter of legal action would depend on the specific state/local laws which is where consulting a lawyer would help.

I know in many places (residential) that you may pay taxes to the middle of the street, however you are not responsible for clearing snow etc from the street but you ARE responsible for clearing your sidewalk in front of your home and leading up to your front door. If someone were to slip on those and you had not properly cleared them you could be legaly sued even though it's property you pay for, it still has public access. If someone cut through your yard, or went around back where it was not public access then you get into the whole 'attractive nuciance' issue.

I'm not sure where businesses fall into that catagory which is why a lawyer should be consulted for advice if nothing else.


Whether or not the stumbler should have been watching where they are going or not is a mute point where the law is concerned. In a perfect world all the walkways would be snow/ice/hole/heave free and everyone would have perfect balance and never misstep. That's just not how things work in reality. I do agree it's a sue happy society though.

[Twisterdog]

Honestly, IMO, the fact that people these days would even consider bringing legal action against anyone because they tripped and fell just makes me want to scream. It is so absurd.

Laws are meant to protect people from gross negligence. They were never intended to let every person who trips and falls get rich. If the court system wasn't completely bogged down with hundreds of thousands of people trying to get rich from falling down or spilling coffee, our legal system would actually work the way it was intended to ... to protect truly innocent victims of crime and to punish real criminals.

I find things like this infuriating, frankly.

[Taz_Zoee]

I have two senarios on this. One is years ago a person was walking through the parking lot at my parents business (not going into the business, mind you) and fell and broke a hip or something. I believe it was an elderly person. My parents were responsible for it. AND they only rented, they don't even own the building!!!

Several years ago I was leaving work and was talking to a family outside. As I said goodbye and turned to step from one sidewalk down to another (which is smaller than a sidewalk to the street curb) I stepped wrong and really messed up my ankle. It was the size of a softball. I don't know what I could have done "legally", but I did nothing. Besides go to the hospital and have x-rays. Over $700 later! :eek: Honestly, I didn't even think about doing anything about it. The only thing I thought of was workers comp. But I was technically off work at the time. Oh well!

But a sidewalk is different than a parking lot, I believe.

So what ever happened about this original person that tripped??