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Catty1
05-31-2008, 11:24 AM
Someone on PT once said that Canada was more 'civilized'.

Not sure about that...and the province of Alberta leads the country in amount of spousal violence.

I wish this poor man had been taken to the ER...all reports say that Alison obviously fought, in vain, to protect her children. The youngest was left alive and unharmed in her crib. Police Inspector Reuser, who spoke to the media, was hit hard...his voice frequently broke, and all officers returned to their division to receive trauma counselling. Many are parents themselves.

The two bereaved families are solid...little Anna will be raised by Alison's family.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/RTGAMArticleHTMLTemplate/A,C/20080530/dalhousiefri?brand=generic&hub=&tf=CFCNPlus/generic/hubs/frontpage.html&cf=CFCNPlus/generic/hubs/frontpage.cfg&slug=dalhousiefri&date=20080530&archive=CFCNPlus&ad_page_name=&nav=home&subnav=fullstory&site_cfcn=http://calgary.ctv.ca


Family and tenant stabbed to death

calgary.ctv.ca

POSTED AT 5:46 PM Friday, May 30

Police now believe Joshua Lall stabbed to death three members of his family and the downstairs tenant on Tuesday evening before stabbing himself to death.

The picture police are painting of the crime is a disturbing one.

Police say Amber Bowerman, the 30-year-old basement suite tenant, was killed first. The attack was such a surprise that she had no chance to fight back.

The bodies of Lall’s wife Alison and his daughters Rochelle and Kristen were found together in the master bedroom upstairs. “Every indication is that Alison fought to protect her children,” says Inspector Guy Slater from the Calgary Police Service.

Joshua Lall also died from multiple stab wounds. His body was found beside the crib of his one-year-old daughter Anna. Anna was the only person in the house who was not harmed, or killed.

Police say they have recovered the knife that was used in all the stabbings.

Lall’s motive for the killing remains a mystery but his mental health is still being considered.

“I can’t say whether, or not, Joshua had mental health problems. That is up to the medical experts to conclude,” says Slater.

A psychiatrist CTV News spoke to says when considering the way the event has been reported, it looks like this crime could have been triggered by depression. “It appears this man may have been suffering from a depression for some weeks prior to becoming so depressed that he lost touch with reality and during that break from reality it seems he acted in this very dangerous way,” says Dr. Mark Berber a psychiatrist from the Markham Stouffville Hospital in Toronto.

Police are still waiting for toxicology tests to come back from Joshua Lall’s body.

http://www.nationalpost.com/549585.bin

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.nationalpost.com/news/552845.bin?size=404x272
A handout photo of Allison Lall and her daughters. Police believe she died protecting them from her husband. He later commited suicide, say police.
http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/549689.bin?size=404x272
Joshua Lall

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/30/calgary-deaths.html


Lall's body was located in the room of his one-year-old daughter, who was found crying in her crib, unharmed.

It's not clear why Lall did what he did.

"I can't even speculate on that. The only person that knows that is Joshua himself," Slater said.

There was no suicide note, no obvious warning and no evidence of drug or alcohol use.

But there are reports that Lall was under extreme stress, preparing for his accreditation exams to be registered as a professional architect while raising a family and holding down a full-time job at a Calgary architectural firm.

His father, Dominic Lall, told the Calgary Sun his son was distraught when he called his parents in Ontario a few days ago.

"He told us something was wrong — he had a mental breakdown or something," his father said. The couple was planning to fly to Calgary when they learned of the deaths.[They arrived a day too late - CC]

Even so, Lall's colleagues, friends and neighbours describe him as a kind-hearted man who loved his family and was very involved in community activities.

Rob Adamson, the chair at architecture firm Cohos Evamy, where Lall had worked for the past five years, said Lall shone at work designing buildings for the disabled.

"He was a very outgoing person in the project work he was doing," Adamson told CBC News.

Adamson said the job is high-pressure and deadline-driven, but "Joshua always seemed happy at work and interested in his work."

He said he last spoke to his employee on Friday, when Lall asked where he could take his wife for an 8th anniversary dinner. Adamson said Lall called in sick on Monday, and the day after called to request a week's holiday.

He said everyone at work wonders what led police to believe Lall could be responsible for the deaths.

"If that were in fact the case, it would be completely out of character and that's the biggest question on people's mind, is that it just simply doesn't make sense," he said.

Medusa
05-31-2008, 12:17 PM
Utterly tragic.

Catty1
05-31-2008, 01:09 PM
According to a couple they knew, Joshua and Alison had visited them 3 weeks ago, and Joshua talked openly about his anxiety. But the friends said it really sounded like they had it in hand.

I wonder if he saw a doctor? Anything?

I hope we can all look out for each other.

RICHARD
05-31-2008, 01:09 PM
Lall’s motive for the killing remains a mystery but his mental health is still being considered.


Whenever a line like this is put in the media I want to scream.


What person, without mental health problems, would do something like this? Even if you can say he was temporarily insane how could you do that to someone, anyone, your own family?

The people he worked with can think all they want about the WHY HE DID IT.

The trigger could be something as simple as telling him a joke to rejecting a project of his.
----------
Everytime I hear a story like this I think of the line from a song that goes like this, "I used to know him, He seemed like a regular guy."

Everytime you see a case like this and the media goes to the neighbor or co-workers you'll hear a line similar to that one.

-------

Here in So Cal they found 5 people that were victims of a murder/suicide that were dead from two to three weeks. The family hadn't heard from the victims, they called the cops and the cops went to the address -found nothing, a followup call and that's when they found the bodies!

Catty1
05-31-2008, 01:19 PM
RICHARD, in this case, the reason it's being "considered" is that the final verdict comes from the psych in attendance on the case. Even the media won't say for sure he was schizophrenic or depressed, because that hasn't been determined. They're still 'considering and weighing' what they know, to find out exactly what the mental illness was.

BTW - Richard, you might find this board of interest - I found it by accident: www.crazyboards.org

Medusa
05-31-2008, 01:44 PM
I hope we can all look out for each other.

Yes, I hope so, too, Candace. To take a line from the Tudors: "It's a slippery world we live in". Living alone as I do and thousands of miles from my son and having only one sister who lives hundreds of miles away, it's scary to think that I really have no one to say "Hey, where's Mary been? Think we should check on her?" I have friends, of course, but they're all busy w/their own lives. I do my best to check on my friends rather than feel sorry for myself. I don't mean to make this about me, though. I guess I'm just saying that I'd like to get some of the old days back when we all really did look out for each other. Since I bought this house a little over 3 years ago, I've tried to get to know my neighbors without much success. Out of all the houses, I've only become friends w/the people to my left and w/the woman across the street. It used to be that we knew everyone in the neighborhood and we all pitched in and helped one another. Not so much anymore. So how can we possibly tell when someone is suffering and possibly ready to have a psychotic break or a nervous breakdown or whatever? We can only hope the families pay close attention.

RICHARD
05-31-2008, 11:18 PM
RICHARD, in this case, the reason it's being "considered" is that the final verdict comes from the psych in attendance on the case.

BTW - Richard, you might find this board of interest - I found it by accident: www.crazyboards.org

Gotcha.

I just think that you have to be crazy to kill anyone, let alone 4 people.


I have to put a "MATURE" rating on that board.:eek:

Catty1
06-01-2008, 12:53 AM
Yep, that board is pretty raw...but it could be an eye-opener for some folks who want to learn what it is like to live with a real MI (Mental Illness).

The subtitle is cool: "Different Brains - Shared Experiences"

But it sure doesn't pretty up the situation at all - yet there are people helping each other out as they all go through the same ditches and rabbit holes...raw and amazing.

Medusa
06-01-2008, 06:38 AM
[QUOTE=RICHARD;2019297]
I just think that you have to be crazy to kill anyone, let alone 4 people.
QUOTE]

Really? I think that perhaps in this instance that may be true but I don't believe that everyone that commits murder is crazy, not by any stretch.

RICHARD
06-01-2008, 10:01 AM
Really? I think that perhaps in this instance that may be true but I don't believe that everyone that commits murder is crazy, not by any stretch.

:eek:

Not even a little bit?

Being a guy and having witnessed some brutal "guy type" violence, I think that any time you promote violence upon another person you are crazy.

Self defense excluded-I have heard that stabbing/beating the crap outta people to the point of death is really personal.

P.S. You cannot take away the 'crazy' defense from anyone. How many spouses kill each other then claim temp insanity?:eek:

Medusa
06-01-2008, 10:35 AM
:eek:

Not even a little bit?

Being a guy and having witnessed some brutal "guy type" violence, I think that any time you promote violence upon another person you are crazy.

I think it means you're violent, not crazy.

Self defense excluded-I have heard that stabbing/beating the crap outta people to the point of death is really personal.

Personal, yes. Crazy, no.

P.S. You cannot take away the 'crazy' defense from anyone. How many spouses kill each other then claim temp insanity?:eek:

The temporary insanity plea doesn't fly w/me. So a person has never had a moment of temporary insanity before or after the murder?



Understand that I'm not unsympathetic to those who truly are mentally ill. I'm talking about the ones who, for whatever reason, became violent and then later claimed mental illness or temporary insanity. Of course, not being a psychologist, I'll accept that I could be wrong. But this is my opinion.

Medusa
06-01-2008, 10:40 AM
:eek:

Not even a little bit?

Being a guy and having witnessed some brutal "guy type" violence, I think that any time you promote violence upon another person you are crazy.

Self defense excluded-I have heard that stabbing/beating the crap outta people to the point of death is really personal.

P.S. You cannot take away the 'crazy' defense from anyone. How many spouses kill each other then claim temp insanity?:eek:




I think that any time you promote violence upon another person, that makes you violent, not crazy. Beating/stabbing someone to the point of death is really personal, yes. Crazy, no. The temporary insanity plea doesn't fly w/me. So a person has never had a moment of temporary insanity before or after the murder? Sorry, not buying it.

Understand that I'm not unsympathetic to those who truly are mentally ill. I'm talking about the ones who, for whatever reason, became violent and then later claimed mental illness or temporary insanity. Those pleas are as lame as the twinkie defense. Of course, not being a psychologist, I'll accept that I could be wrong. But this is my opinion. Were those teenage girls who beat the snot out of that other girl crazy? It was personal among all of them, sure. But they weren't crazy. They were young girls who not only felt that violence was the solution to their problem, they video taped it. It could very easily have gotten out of hand and, if so, they would be facing murder charges today. Obviously, that case isn't as serious as this murder/suicide case. This guy had to be mentally ill, especially if he had never displayed prior violent tendencies .

The cop who murdered Jesse Davis here in Canton, OH is a prime example. (Sorry, his name escapes me at the moment.) He was a cop, so he knew the law and, because he didn't want to pay child support for yet another baby (his admission), he killed his girlfriend. Crazy? Crazy like a fox maybe. But not crazy enough because he got life in prison. I know how you feel about Drew Peterson because I read one of your other posts. Is he crazy? No, it hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed his wife or his ex-wife but if it is proven and/or he admits to it, does that make him crazy?

phesina
06-01-2008, 05:59 PM
How utterly tragic. My sympathy and prayers for all touched by this.

Catty1
06-02-2008, 08:17 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/06/02/lall-statement.html

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2008/06/02/cgy-lall-family.jpg

RICHARD
06-03-2008, 12:24 PM
I guess my viewpoint is this- physically hurting people is outside the bounds that we try to establish for ourselves and society.

We have laws against it.

So, If you are so detached that you don't realize what you are doing is against the law, you are crazy.

If you know what you are doing is against the law, then kill yourself because you don't want to pay the price or are that thatched in the head. You are crazy.:confused:

Medusa
06-03-2008, 12:29 PM
I guess my viewpoint is this- physically hurting people is outside the bounds that we try to establish for ourselves and society.

We have laws against it.

So, If you are so detached that you don't realize what you are doing is against the law, you are crazy.

If you know what you are doing is against the law, then kill yourself because you don't want to pay the price or are that thatched in the head. You are crazy.:confused:

And my viewpoint is that they know it's against the law. They just do not care. And they kill themselves (sometimes) because they're too cowardly to face the consequences.

RICHARD
06-03-2008, 01:15 PM
And my viewpoint is that they know it's against the law. They just do not care. And they kill themselves (sometimes) because they're too cowardly to face the consequences.

Since you put it that way I agree.

And, by the way, I can't go and live in your closet.;):eek:

Medusa
06-03-2008, 01:35 PM
And, by the way, I can't go and live in your closet.;):eek:

Sure you can. I ain't hidin' nothin'. ;)

RICHARD
06-03-2008, 01:44 PM
Sure you can. I ain't hidin' nothin'. ;)

LOL,

I think we are both crazy! I wash and cook...but your closet had to be at least 6 foot, three inches long.I need leg room.:confused:

Medusa
06-03-2008, 02:00 PM
LOL,

I think we are both crazy! I wash and cook...but your closet had to be at least 6 foot, three inches long.I need leg room.:confused:

Oh. Well, you're screwed then.

RICHARD
06-03-2008, 02:27 PM
Oh. Well, you're screwed then.

Sorry, I'm not that kind ot guy.:(:eek:

Medusa
06-03-2008, 04:16 PM
Sorry, I'm not that kind ot guy.:(:eek:
:)