Horse abuse in America

[Vela]

Okay, apparently many are so stuck on the fact that I mentioned horse racing and don't hate every aspect of it, that the rest is just forgotten about and ignored. My bad, I thought most would see past that and see the point of the post. Apparently not, although some did. I'll just post the rest of the information then.

The first video link shows some abused horses, but also things people do to their horses that just aren't smart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rJq67JaM_Q

Second vidoe link does not show gore, but does show animals left to fend for themselves with no care.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFMVGMdhHV8&feature=related

The following website talks about the crisis in America and brings to light the real problems horses face in this country. There are not many rescues or shelters for these animals, compared to dogs and cats, yet the problem is just as severe.

If you want to learn more you can read it. There are some great updates on rescued horses and some stories to make you shake your head and wonder how it gets that bad.

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/

[Taz_Zoee]

I am not against horse racing. But I do not like to watch it. It makes me cry when I see a horse fall down. Even in movies when I know the horse is trained to fall and isn't really hurt, I just can't watch it.
I did not look at the links either, since it said graphic material. No thanks.

[chocolatepuppy]

How horrid!:( I never realized horses were so abused and sent to slaughterhouses simply because they weren't wanted until I made friends with someone who has horses. She really opened my eyes.
I don't really have an opinion on horse racing, as I don't know enough about it. Thanks for bringing this abuse to our attention Vela.

[lizbud]

You seem to be arguing the lessor of two evils, which is hardly an
endorcement for professional horse racing.:confused:

Exploitation of animals for money is always wrong in my book. Did you know
that giving race horses steroids is legal in every state but Iowa. It's pitiful
the way people use & abuse these beautiful creatures.

[Freedom]

I didn't look at the links.

I know the MSPCA* has a horse rescue program. I grew up in the city where they have the horse retirement farm, and we would go visit the horses now and again. Mom always called first, as SHE couldn't stand it if they had a new(ish) arrival who hadn't had time to recover somewhat.

As I grew up, in my teens and 20's, I was on their newsletter list (back in the days when newsletters were sent snail mail!) and there were always horse stories in there. And photos. Too sad.

I am opposed to horse racing. Just because other horses are in worse situations, doesn't make a bad situation tolerable, for me.

* Massachusetts SPCA

[Giselle]

Like anything else, I don't think the sport itself is bad.

I think the way we conduct the sport is awful. I think the way we breed the horses for maximum speed, neglecting long-term health, is neglectful and abusive in itself.

Unfortunately, this situation happens in almost any animal sport. Dog conformation, anyone? JMO.

[IRescue452]

What happens to the 99% of horses bred in the racing industry who don't make the cut for racing? The only majority that is treated well are the few that are good enough to be raced.

Besides, racing horses 2-3 years before their bones are fully developed is cruel enough for me to hate racing. Who's to say those horses aren't sore on a daily basis? Prey animals tend to cover that up.

[Vela]

My point is being overlooked. Everyone gets up in arms over horse racing, yet worse things happen every day but not many say much of anything about that...my point was to point out that it's a much bigger problem in the horse industry than horse racing alone. My point is, eveyrone cries poor Eight Belles, poor Barbaro. Yes poor Eight Belles, poor Barbaro, they died too young from accidents, a misstep, that could happen to any horse, even one out in pasture; but poor old spot down the road with rain rot and no hay, poor ill paint left to starve to death in a pasture, poor mangled pony left to fend for itself in a stall full of manure up to is knees, poor horse with overgrown feet so long it can't stand up anymore. It's not the horse racing industry that is to blame for horse abuse, it's human beings in all forms of horse sports and even just horse ownership, that are responsible.

Lot of people who argue horse racing is cruel don't actually know much of anything about it, just what they see sensationalized on TV, the good and the bad. You know Big Brown won the Preakness yesterday and his jockey didn't even raise a whip to him? He obviously wasn't being forced to do it.

I never said bad things didn't happen in racing, but unless something tragic happens on TV, nothing much is said. Nobody mentions the hundreds or horses who come home safely to their warm stalls, even the 10k claimers. You are misinformed if you think only the highest level of race horses are cared for.

My point was to show you that MUCH worse things happen every day, but why iare so few all up in arms over that? Eight Belles lived a pampered life, well cared for, and though she died young and tragically, it was quick and she didn't suffer like the millions of horses across this country do every day. There are many more horses pumped out by back yard breeders every year that get no training, poor care, and are sent to slaughter than there are thoroughbreds. Is it a problem, yes, but the problem lies much deeper.

I'm not asking you to agree with how I feel about horse racing. How I feel about it has no bearing on how you feel about it. The title of my thread was rhetorical. I was making a point of showing you that it's not just about horse racing.....but a much larger picture.

Irescue you are incorrect in your statements about thoroughbreds who don't make the racing cut. Say whatever you like, but it's not the truth. You make a blanket statement saying only the 1%, not sure where you got that number, of thoroughbreds able to race are well cared for. First of all there are lots more than 1% that make it to racing, and secondly, there are thousands of thoroughbreds who are used as jumpers, eventers, backyard owned pets, those used in dressage, or even just trail riding, some of whom I know personally, who are very well taken care of and are 100% Thoroughbred and born on a racing breeding farm. If you are going to make blanket derogatory statements, please at least be informed about what you are bashing. Yes some end up in bad places, but more horses raised by BYB end up in bad places than that.

[Freedom]

Hi Vela -

I did mention the MSPCA newsletters. I still have nightmares, all these years later, of the horse / pony (not sure which after all these years) they rescued with the hoofs over grown, all curled up, and not able to stand. They had to cut the hooves back in steps, so it took some time. They DID post a photo a while later, showing the animal finally able to stand. Thank goodness. That photo doesn't stick in my memory, however.

I think that, like many areas of abuse, people focus on what they know. Dogs and cats are more common as pets, so more people learn about those. I'm sure abuses happen in the reptile world too, but folks aren't as aware as they can't relate to ownership in that area. Same for abuses with wild animals; poachers and such. It has taken years with stellar spokes people like Jane Goodall, and Elsa the Lioness's people (I forget the name) to bring that to awareness. I think it is because most people don't have any contact to know what is happening.

So I guess I do agree with you, horses DO suffer abuses, in horse ownership which is not racing related, and it is not well known. Just because 97% of people never hear of it, doesn't mean it does not exist.

Perhaps too, it is that fewer people can help in ways other than monetarily. Look at PT, how many people foster dogs and cats, help with transport. It is not the same for horses. My heart may be in the right place, but I don't have the extra funds and although I may have time, I can't do much, not being familiar with horses. Not owning enough space, not having a trailer. I'm not sure, but I think this may be a part of the problem.

In a perfect world, NONE of God's creatures would suffer abuse from humans.

[Vela]

I agree with you Freedom. I don't like to see it in any way for any animals. Honestly, my whole point was to show something to people who may just not really know or understand that it exists.

Horses are very difficult to rescue, and much more expensive than dogs or cats to do so. There just are so few shelters and rescues around because it is so much more difficult, being how large they are, etc, and the specialized things they need. It's much easier to take in a dog or cat financially and space wise.

I had to watch several videos to find some I thought might help show what really happens every day, not just in a big race on TV, and that was hard for me to do. It was more just to make people aware of what happens.

Thank you for being willing to look and see the bigger picture, that was what I was trying to do. If people don't know it happens to the extent that it does, how can anyone help change it? It's not just about racing horses, it's much more. It's just a subject that isn't often talked about.

[RICHARD]

For some reason I want to say that a woman by the last name of Adamson had something to do with Elsa the Lion.

--------

HBO has done a few documentaries on racing. I saw one about the jockeys-those guys are really effed up once they finish their careers. They don't have insurance and the purses go to the owners-not the riders.

HBO did a segment, this past week, about what happens to some horses that 'don't race'. When they take on a topic, they pretty much try to cover the issue -sometimes it's an insult to the viewer. A woman who worked at a ranch was interviewed about where the horses went that were no longer wanted.

I didn't see the whole thing, but I was really bothered by the woman and her 'angst'.

She complained about having to watch the horses loaded onto trailers, one clip was of a horse being whipped to move him along. She also stated that sometimes she was asked to get the horse that was to be taken.

She reminded me of a 'Cat Woman'- The gal who 'saves' cats until she has a home filled with felines that are being abused with what she believes are her good intentions- all because she cannot care for them properly.

MY thought was, "LEAVE!" I was really turned off by her "I love my job" attitude...She loves her job, but she stays even though her charges are routinely sent to be 'farmed'?


There are the extremes in every kind of animal abuse and loving the pet.
But, sometimes too much care, is abuse.

I didn't see the whole segment of the program because I lost interest-I saw that this was going to be the "DARK SIDE" docu piece that comes out after a hot button issue surfaces.

Just like the Mikey Vick/dog fighting pieces that were all the rage for the sports programs-until some other fancy happens to get caught!

[moosmom]

I don't believe that horses were put on this earth to be whipped into running faster. That's what horse racing is. It's abuse, plain and simple.

[Vela]

I don't believe that horses were put on this earth to be whipped into running faster. That's what horse racing is. It's abuse, plain and simple.

Oddly enough, Big Brown won the Preakness last Saturday by over 5 lengths and he was not touched with the whip even ONE time. I guess maybe you'll try to tell me he telepathically knew the jockey would hit him if he didn't run faster??? Just to keep it real, he was actually being pulled up into a slow gallop as he won because he kept wanting to go faster, all without the touch of a spur, whip, or so much as a hand slap. He didn't look afraid, injured, or in any other way abused.

While you are perfectly entitled to your opinion on racing, and I am not trying to change it, you completely ignored the remainder of the information presented, which was the entire point of the original post. The racing aspect was merely a springboard to present the remainder of the information.

[IRescue452]

I still think your reasoning is comparable to saying dog fighting isn't so bad because there are a lot of dogs in worse conditions and the winning dogs are treated very well.

[pitc9]

I still think your reasoning is comparable to saying dog fighting isn't so bad because there are a lot of dogs in worse conditions and the winning dogs are treated very well.

applause

[Suki Wingy]

Freedom, very well said. I have wanted to reply to this thread for a while but was unsure how to sum up my feelings. You did it for me. :)

[moosmom]

Thank you Pitc!!

[shepgirl]

Being an animal lover, owner of 2 dogs and former rider I want to thank you for posting this Vela. I've witnessed this stuff and much worse at slaughterhouses. And I've seen horses this thin left in bare pastures with no shelter or water. Fortunately we have one person in our city that started a rescue for horses no longer wanted or unrideable and they get excellent care...everyone donates so there's plenty of food and TLC to go around. But there are still those that will send a horse to slaughter for a measly few $$$.

[K9soul]

I've learned so much about horses the past couple years. I've always loved them, always loved watching them and seeing them, but didn't understand a lot about them behaviorally and physically. There are things I recognize now as cruelty that didn't appear cruel before, and things that appeared cruel before that I now know aren't.

One thing I have learned is that usually the horses with a job to do are the least often the victims of abuse. Now days, a "job" is usually a sport or some type of competition or entertainment since we do not NEED horses as we did in the pre-motorized days. I've also learned that some horse sports/shows that appear harmless have some very ominous and hidden things going on behind them, the worst I have learned are what is done to gaited horses to make them have such weird and unnatural gaits in the ring, to carry their tails high, their heads back, and so on. I am so glad for thoroughbreds that they are not having painful things put in their rear ends to make them hold tails up, not having their feet weighted and chained and sored to make them walk a certain way, they do not have cruel bits that cut into their tongues to make them hold their heads back, and are not spurred viciously in the ribs to make them "dance." The most they have done is the use of the crop, of which their are rules how they can be used, and is more a signal to a horse the same as a leash correction to a dog is. If used correctly, it's more to make a popping sound than actually have painful contact.

I've also learned how fragile horses are. When a 1000+ horse stumbles it is usually catastrophic. Thus horses die romping in their paddocks sometimes, galloping in the field; lipizanners in training, hunters, jumpers, Olympic equestrian horses. All stumble sometimes, step badly, end up injured and sometimes fatally. The difference is most the time it is not witnessed by a large audience. Usually those events are mostly witnessed by horse people who understand and are familiar with the issue. Steeplechasing is the sport that seems to have the most brutal and catastrophic fatalities.

Are horses being bred more fragile? That could be an issue. But I believe so are many species bred for a specific purpose. Take bulldogs and pugs for example, bred and bred to strict AKC standards until many die of heart and breathing problems. It is similar to my mind as running horses having a greater propensity to break down because they are being bred for speed more than stamina and hardiness. A definite problem, but really not pertaining to this thread which is about abuse.

And I have learned it is the horses in people's barns and fields, the ones who are rarely seen or taken note of, the ones not used for any real purpose, that are the most often neglected and abused. Underfed horribly, vetting and foot care let go, worming let go, and other vital maintenance. It is easier to keep a dog or cat fed, it is expensive and takes a lot of money and effort to keep a horse properly fed. So many, many go without. Many are not trained well, and an untrained horse is a dangerous horse, a horse that can kill you. It is much harder to rehab and train a horse that has been let go than other pets. So a lot of them end up neglected, unwanted, costing too much, shuffled around until the inevitable happens, and it is usually a slow, painful, miserable and long process.

For a horse to have clean stall, well cared for feet, well groomed and bathed, plenty of exercise and training on a daily basis, that is something the majority of horses don't receive. Many know how highly active dogs need a job, and that if they have no purpose and no job and little attention, they turn to bad behaviors: destruction, aggression, fearfulness. We talk on here so often about fatal dog attacks and what causes dogs to become that way. That is the plight of horses, but much more so than dogs. Much, much more often. It is something I never realized, did not know about, until I started truly talking to horse people, reading horse boards, reading articles. It is not something you'll find in the newspaper, just like you won't find that stuff about what makes pitbulls attack, why they are abused and what that abuse causes. So we spend so much time fighting and struggling to educate, to show people.

It is so much harder in the horse world though, because not near as many people own and are around horses and know horses other than what they see on television and in movies. And none of that shows an accurate picture about the real issues going on with horses, where the good is, and where the bad is.

ETA: I did not know about soring before until fairly recently. Thought I would add a link about it that tells more about it: http://www.thegaitedhorse.com/morethansore2.htm

[Vela]

I learned a lot about soring with owning my Walker boy, thanks for posting the link to that Jess. It's a horrid thing. He's never been sored, and he never will be as long as I own him. When I show him it will only be in flat shod classes.


Big Lick Walkers (the type sored and abused regularly for shows):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuqN9n4RF4Y

They are only babies, and some have their hind legs giving out on them during the class. This is why they sore.

another showing the "canter"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VbMq_TRrgM&feature=related

Walkers like mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSY-y1EKnSA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8mjXBoW-PY

[Twisterdog]

I know very little about horses, so this is coming from a strictly amateur viewpoint.

I have never seen a horse race. I wouldn't. I do, however, have a bit of knowledge of dog racing. I used to foster greyhounds rescued from a dog track. It was a horrific sport, the "winners" treated just good enough to keep them winning and the losers simply disposed of. Of course, every "winner" becomes a "loser" eventually, and then the same fate awaited them. It is an unnatural life at best. If horse racing is dramatically different from that, I will be surprised.

I have always felt terribly sorry for many horses. Abuse and neglect is certainly rampant. I have seen many terrible cases working with humane societies ... and I'm sure what was reported to us was the tip of the iceberg, since most people associate those organizations with dogs and cats only. A common problem seem to be people underestimating the cost of keeping a horse. We saw a lot of starving horses, and the owners either got tired of paying the food bill or simply couldn't anymore. We also saw a lot of ignorance ... people who had no idea how to care for a horse. A lot of people assume if the had a dog or a cat, they could have a horse. Just give it some water and throw in some hay. We saw a lot of tooth and hoof problems, because the owners had NO idea.

It seems a lot of people have more of a functional attitude towards horses, instead of a pet relationship. They seem almost entirely interested in what the horse can or cannot accomplish, do for them, etc. And a lot of horse owners have no qualms whatsoever getting rid of their horse, without a second thought as to who buys it, and getting a new one that might better suit their needs. My friends have bought eleven horses at auctions, to keep them from going to a slaughterhouse. There was nothing "wrong" with any of these horses, they were just "trade-ins". Seems to me more like what you might do a a car ... not an animal.

[K9soul]

A common problem seem to be people underestimating the cost of keeping a horse. We saw a lot of starving horses, and the owners either got tired of paying the food bill or simply couldn't anymore. We also saw a lot of ignorance ... people who had no idea how to care for a horse. A lot of people assume if the had a dog or a cat, they could have a horse. Just give it some water and throw in some hay. We saw a lot of tooth and hoof problems, because the owners had NO idea.

It seems a lot of people have more of a functional attitude towards horses, instead of a pet relationship. They seem almost entirely interested in what the horse can or cannot accomplish, do for them, etc.

What you have said here is very much the crux of the situation for horses in general. That is why I mentioned that the horses with "jobs" to do are often the best kept too. Proper feeding, hoof care, teeth care, grooming, etc., are vital for a horse's health. A horse with poor foot and teeth care can, understandably, develop behavior problems due to discomfort, pain, lameness, etc. People get a horse and do not take care of their feet, their horse becomes lame, they find them unable to ride, and they dump them off and replace them with the next. It is not like keeping a dog's nails trimmed, hoof care is essentially life and death for a horse in the long run. Same with teeth care, if not properly done then they eventually lose the ability to eat and stay nourished.

Pictures and videos of neglected horses are not hard to find. You can find them all over on horse ads for sale even. One might think it is just the worst of the worst, but it is shockingly common.

[Twisterdog]

ETA: I did not know about soring before until fairly recently. Thought I would add a link about it that tells more about it: http://www.thegaitedhorse.com/morethansore2.htm

I'd like to add ...

I had NO idea this went on. OMG.

These people are just as bad as dog fighters. Is this not illegal?!?! Can these people not be prosecuted under animal cruelty statutes? I am hoping there is an especially hot place in the inner circle of hell for anyone who would do this to an animal.

[Vela]

It is against the law to sore horses. They send agents to as many shows as they can to check for it, but some still get away with it and some of the "inspectors" are dirty. Some still do it and/or get away with it.

The flat shod walkers are not sored, as they are trying to have a forward rolling gait, rather than a high stepping gait, but if you want to show a walker here in Utah you have to pay an extra fee to have your horse checked before entering the ring or you cannot show. They don't even show Big Lick walkers around here. It's disgusting and I look forward to a day when this does not happen anymore.

http://www.walkinonranch.com/CNN.html

This is a video link showing people soring horses or trying to cover it up. You can see the horses are obviously in pain.

[zippy-kat]

I told myself I wasn't going to post here as the original topic was lost in the continued debate about racing.... but here I am. Like Twisterdog, I had no idea about soring. But I've always been partial to QHs and Morgans and haven't really studied other breeds.

That HAS to be the worst canter ever! I don't like anything about it, including the posture of the riders. Lurch. Stop. Lurch. Stop. Weren't TWHs originally bred to cover lots of ground at a fast, smooth pace? That looks anything but smooth. Give me the sweet rocking-horse motion anyday.

Vela (and/or Jess), I'm not familiar with TWHs, are there ways to produce the big lick without harming the horse? Or is such a high step entirely man made? Someone once told me that once the headset was in place, the gait came natural to racking horses. Does that include the high step? (Is there a difference between racking and walking horses? One in the same isn't it?)

I had some other TWH horse questions but forgot them at the moment. If I remember I may post 'em in Pet General, so as not to hijack this thread.

[K9soul]

Vela can probably answer more knowledgeably, but I do not think any horse naturally gaits that way (the big lick gait). From what I understand, weights and chains are usually used to train them to walk that way but not everyone uses soring. A great many do though, and find ways to hide it from inspections. Their natural gait is just nothing like the "big lick" gaiting.

Here is a little clip of a walker foal gaiting from birth. It seems natural with them the way retrieving is often innate in retrievers from birth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HSkwF586ro

Racking I think is another type of gait a little different from flat-shod walkers but again that's not an area I'm as well educated in as Vela is.

[Alysser]

The thing that bothers me most is people who know NOTHING about something and say it's abuse, it's horrible, etc. It seems many people still listen to stupid organizations like PETA. Vela, I agree 100% with what you are saying and I always have. Like I've said in a different thread horses, or animals in general, can't be FORCED to do something they don't want to. I am sure there are types of cruel horseracing such as one in Texas or some other state where they run down a hill as fast as possible and topple over one another, and underground racing to. How can anybody compare dog fighting to horse-racing? Horses aren't forced to kill each other, they aren't treated poorly, there is NO comparison at all, not matter what anybody tells me. There were times when I would use the crop on my horse during horse back riding lessons. You are telling me lightly tapping a horse is abuse? It's a signal, it's not abuse. :rolleyes:

[Twisterdog]

horses, or animals in general, can't be FORCED to do something they don't want to.

How can anybody compare dog fighting to horse-racing? Horses aren't forced to kill each other, they aren't treated poorly, there is NO comparison at all, not matter what anybody tells me.


Of course animals can be forced to do things they don't want to. So can people. Do you think the horses in those video clips want to trot around a ring with terribly sore hooves? Do you think the cart horses in cities in the past wanted to pull heavy loads every day of their lives on pavement until they literally dropped dead of exhaustion in harness? Do my dogs want to heel on a walk? No, they want to run amok and pee on everything. I force them to walk beside me. Do you think animals who are abused want to do unnatural, painful things? Do children who are sexually abused want to participate?

If you are referring to my post about dog fighting (and I don't know if you were or not), I said people who sore their horses are no better than dog fighters. I did not say horse racing is no better than dog fighting. It is ... but I said I doubted it was any better than dog racing - something I do know personally about.

[lizbud]

Of course animals can be forced to do things they don't want to. So can people. Do you think the horses in those video clips want to trot around a ring with terribly sore hooves? Do you think the cart horses in cities in the past wanted to pull heavy loads every day of their lives on pavement until they literally dropped dead of exhaustion in harness? Do my dogs want to heel on a walk? No, they want to run amok and pee on everything. I force them to walk beside me. Do you think animals who are abused want


Thank you for this intellegent post Twisterdog. I was about to post a
similar thought. Saying an animal can't be forced is not true. It's done
all the time.

[Vela]

That HAS to be the worst canter ever! I don't like anything about it, including the posture of the riders. Lurch. Stop. Lurch. Stop. Weren't TWHs originally bred to cover lots of ground at a fast, smooth pace? That looks anything but smooth. Give me the sweet rocking-horse motion anyday.

Vela (and/or Jess), I'm not familiar with TWHs, are there ways to produce the big lick without harming the horse? Or is such a high step entirely man made? Someone once told me that once the headset was in place, the gait came natural to racking horses. Does that include the high step? (Is there a difference between racking and walking horses? One in the same isn't it?)

I had some other TWH horse questions but forgot them at the moment. If I remember I may post 'em in Pet General, so as not to hijack this thread.


The Big Lick is not something that they do naturally. It is acehived with artifical aids, not necessairly soring, but the heavy leg weights and the chains. There are SOME horses who do naturally step higher than others but the Big Lick is completely artificial. I don't like the chains or the weights, i think to does permanent damage to the internal structures of the legs. They never used to walk like that on plantations, how would you get anywhere if they did? It's idiotic. I also don't like the posture of the riders. I prefer the natural gait, the forward rolling plantation walkers, and that's what I promote in my boy. As Jess showed, the come by that completely naturally.

Racking is basically a very fast gait. A TWH horse can sometimes be registered as a racking horse, but not all TWH can rack at speed and not all racking hores are TWH, some are saddlebreds, or a combinatio of the two. Jake does not do it. He can't maintain his rhythm at super high speeds, although as I get him in better shape he maintains it better and better. At one point they used standardbreds (harnes racers) to increase the speed of the gait. Here is a video link to a racking horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DytqyLjJd0A

Racking horses do come by it naturally, they can't really do anything artifical to make that gait with speed. They either can or can't. I'd love to get a racking horse someday.

As far as quarter horses go, they have their fair share of collateral damage =/ They sometimes inject alcohol in the base of the tail to "kill it" so they can't move it anymore, because heaven forbid you don't want a western pleasure horse's tail to move in the show ring. They do nasty thing to them to get their heads low too, and have a nasty 4 beat canter (supposed to be 3 beats) that makes them look like they are lame.

[cassiesmom]

I read about a program similar to this in Reader's Digest. I wish there were more such programs, working with people that need skills and encouragement in their life.
http://www.pennsylvaniaequestrian.com/news/Horses-in-Prison.php
My mom used to ride before she and my dad were married. I never got into it. I'd rather stay behind and pet the barn cats! I don't like to watch horse racing, but I like to see horses in fields and pastures.