Eight Bells (Kentucky Derby horse) [Archive]

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cassiesmom

05-04-2008, 08:16 PM

I am so, so glad I didn't see the Derby yesterday. I heard on the news last night that this horse broke both of her front ankles and was euthanised on the track. I cannot imagine how awful that must have been. There were many people there because of the Kentucky Derby. All I could think of was Barbaro. I don't know that much about horse racing but this just breaks my heart. Would they not have known beforehand that she had such fragile ankles, and kept her out of the race? When I was in high school one of our family vacations was Kentucky and we took a driving tour, saw some of the gorgeous farms with horses in the pastures. They were beautiful. Run at the Bridge, precious horse.

Catty1

05-04-2008, 09:32 PM

Interesting article about Eight Belles

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jUmzGc22y-coT5OqsT6vhz0WFVvg

There will be no schoolchildren sending cards for Eight Belles

5 hours ago

There won't be a dramatic fight for life this time around. No national day of mourning for a brave horse who wouldn't give up.

Schoolchildren won't be sending cards.

The people who cried for Eight Belles got it out of the way at the track. They had no choice, because the business of racing goes on.

She ran with the big boys in the race of her life. She ended up paying for it with her life.

One moment she was flying down the stretch at Churchill Downs racing against all odds to become the first filly to win the Kentucky Derby in 20 years. The next she was thrashing in the dirt, trying desperately to get up before the decision was made to spare both her and us any further misery.

Two years ago we were transfixed by the fight to save Barbaro, who became a national icon as he struggled to recover from injuries that eventually cost him his life. Two weeks from now they'll run the Preakness, and Eight Belles will barely get a mention.

Racing is a brutal business because it has to be. If we mourned every horse that lost its life early on the track or in the barn, we'd have no time left to cheer on those who can still run.

Barbaro was the exception, a horse and a story that allowed us to get all warm and fuzzy and forget for a time that these 450 kilogram beasts are bred and raised for maximum speed, not maximum life spans.

The cool efficiency that marked the end of Eight Belles was more the norm, a cruel reminder on the biggest of all stages that racing can be a deadly sport.

Say what you will about the sport of kings, but don't say they aren't prepared. They've done it enough to know the drill, and they performed it quickly enough so that the untimely demise of Eight Belles didn't interfere with Big Brown's victory ceremony or the hawking of tacos and fried chicken on television.

The equine ambulance came out, and screens were thrown up to spare the crowd from watching. The track veterinarian reached for the needle that is always nearby.

After all, they don't shoot horses anymore, do they?

The animal activists, of course, will raise an outcry over it all. They will call for a ban on the sport, and compare the fate of Eight Belles with that of the dogs Michael Vick and his cohorts euthanized in their own special ways.

Those in the industry, meanwhile, will debate what it all means, a process that had already begun Sunday morning in the stables at the famed track. Trainers talked how horses are bred too fragile these days for the stress that running around a track at more than 70 kilometres an hour with someone clinging to your back causes, and how synthetic tracks might or might not help save some of them.

Most came to the same conclusion: Breakdowns and deaths have always been and will always be a part of the sport.

"No matter what happens, you're always going to see horses break down on the track. That is part of this game. It's a very sad part of the game, but you have to go through it," said Big Brown trainer Rick Dutrow Jr., who should have been spending the day celebrating his horse's big win. "For people coming out to the track and seeing that, it's got to make them think, 'Man, why would I want to go out there and see that happen to a horse?'

"It's got to be very disappointing to anyone who loves horses."

Fellow trainer Nick Zito was just as philosophical.

"It was a very unfortunate thing yesterday, but again, in sports it happens a lot at high levels," Zito said. "People get hurt, people lose their careers."

People do, and sometimes they die, too. They are killed crashing cars into each other on the racetrack, or trading punches in the ring.

I've been at fights and watched it happen, and it's a horror show. But I've never seen anyone euthanized or put to sleep or laid down, or whatever euphemism you want to use to describe what the vet was forced to do to Eight Belles.

It may happen all the time in racing - indeed, three horses were killed in one day at the Breeders' Cup in 1990 - but when it happens on such a public stage for the second time in two years it becomes increasingly hard to watch a race just for the thrill of it all. The popularity of horse racing has been in a long decline to begin with, and having horses die in the dirt isn't exactly a recipe for bringing fans back to the track.

For now, though, the sport goes on. Eight Belles was a casualty, but unlike Barbaro she was disposed of quickly and now the focus of the sport will turn to the chances of Big Brown doing what hasn't been done in 30 years.

A lot of people in racing who watched Big Brown come from all the way outside to win the Derby think he could become the first horse since Affirmed in 1978 to win the Triple Crown.

Many just hope that he finishes the Preakness and the Belmont still standing on all four legs.

Copyright © 2008 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.

Catty1

05-04-2008, 09:37 PM

The rant that inspired the responses below it:
************************************************** ****************************************
Eight Belles' death renews horse racing questions
http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/05/eight-belles-de.html

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/images/2008/05/03/8bellesforblogh.jpg
(Eight Belles is "put down"/AP photo/Brian Bohannon)

For horse racing aficianados, the 4 3/4-length victory by Big Brown at the Kentucky Derby fueled hopes that thoroughbred racing will see its first Triple Crown winner in three decades. But for the millions of casual followers of the Sport of Kings, the wish was likely simpler:

Can we have a big-time race day without seeing a valiant four-legged competitor crippled and condemned to death?

Eight Belles was the lastest high-profile thoroughbred to run itself to death. For a moment, the gallant filly seemed to have earned a place alongside Danica Patrick in what was shaping up as a great year for women in racing.

But then the news spread ear-to-ear that Saturday's Kentucky Derby runnerup had snapped two ankles and was euthanized as she lay in the very Churchill Downs dirt where she had galloped to greatness.

We don't know what Eight Belles means on a horse farm, but in nautical terms "eight bells" marks the end of one's watch shift. And that was the finality Eight Belles met Saturday, although the view of her demise was blocked from the crowd of 150,000-plus by the sanitizing positioning of ambulances.

The Lexington Herald-Leader provides tape of Eight Belles trainer Larry Jones saying his horse "ran the race of here life," and he adds that "she was glad to do it." We'll suggest there's a slight leap of faith there.

Jones told The Louisville Courier-Journal that "It wasn't the race. It wasn't the fact that 19 boys were in there. She ran. She never got bumped. She never did anything. She could have done this race with Shetland ponies. It wasn't in the race where it happened."

Eight Belles' death was not a horse racing fluke. Two years ago Barbaro shattered bones at the Preakness and began the long and futile rehabilitation process that ultimately ended in an early death.

George Washington was given the death needle in the 2007 Breeders Cup.

Go For Wand had a horrific Breeders' Cup death at Belmont in 1990. In all, at the 1990 Breeders Cup at Belmont, three horses were "put down," thoroughbred racing's convenient term for a Kervorkian-like exit from the equine world.

Saturday, for Eight Belles, "There was no reason to wait," said Dr. Larry Bramlage, the American Association vet on call. Bramlage, who has been working at race tracks since 1975, said he had never seen such an injury.

"Sometimes, rarely, you might see a horse suffer something in one leg," Bramlage said. "But I've never seen it happen in both like that."

Friday at Churchill Downs was equally bleak. During the seven-horse Alysheba Stakes, Chelokee suffered a right front condylar fracture that affected the stability in his ankle and threw jockey Ramon Dominguez. The injury was closely compared to Barbaro's.

So, how many other equine deaths are there every year that go unnoticed in a sport that's largely ignored on a day-to-day basis? Let's just take one track, like Del Mar near San Diego: 55 deaths from 2004-06, says the San Diego Union-Tribune.

Bottom line: A direct comparison of Michael Vick to the thoroughbred industry isn't fair. Horse trainers do not pit their racers against each other in a throat-biting battle to the death.

But the death rate of top thouroughbreds does have to make one wonder why this sport seemingly never gets a review from the legal system, given how many of its superstars have gone straight from the finish line to the burial ground. If Vick has to live in a cell at Leavenworth, surely some people in the moneyed world of horse racing need to supply some answers.

Posted at 09:19 PM/ET, May 04, 2008 in Horse Racing | Permalink

Responding to the death of Eight Belles

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/05/responding-to-t.html

Tom Weir's morning rant on the death of Eight Belles in the Kentucky Derby elicited a slew of comments from Game On! readers.

Blog8belles Here is a sample of what readers are thinking:

I grew up with horses but will never ride again. Horse culture is full of delusion. Breaking its spirit, enslaving it, mutilating its body, and running it to death before a grotesque display of drunk gamblers. Sad. Some reward for their legendary spirit and loyalty to man. -- Miles West

To the owners of Eight Belles: I am so very, very sorry for such a tragic end to such a beautiful run. My heart goes out to Eight Belles, she ran her big heart out till she dropped. She wanted to give her rider what was asked of her and she did it to the end. What a marvelous horse she must have been. May the Lord comfort all that knew her. God bless. -- Sue Fancher

This article is a load, you talk about 55 horses died in two years at Del Mar but what you don't say is how many horses raced at the track in those two year. I bet the that the number 55 is less than 2% of the number of hrses that raced there in that time period. And these animal rights activists need to give it up and start worrying about our human rights that are being stripped from us everyday. -- stf 11

Make it illegal to gamble on horse racing. People are blind to the impact of gambling on the sport. Every day, you see horses hesitant to go into the starting gate. The horses are stuffed into the gate, for the sole reason that people have bet on that horse and removing the horse from the race would impact the odds. If it is so humane, and we all love these horses so much, why not let them go back to the stall if they don't feel like racing? Barbaro doesn't want to go into the gate, then breaks through the gate early, and they still stuff him back in there. Take the money out and let's see how many of these "enthusiasts" show up to see the horses then. People don't love the horses, they love the adrenaline rush they get during a race they just threw $250 on. Let's call it like it is. -- mrsplitty

I own horses. I have watched racing since I was a girl, but I am done! I said, "No more" after Barbaro, and then relented, but this is really it. Yes, some of these horses are treated like kings (I visited Secretariat before his death, and he was truly loved); yes, horses, especially thoroughbreds, love to run; yes, there is inherent risk. But these animals are exposed to such unnecessary risk. The simple fact is that 2-years-old is way too young to put this kind of stress on bones and joints... My vet previously worked at a NY track and quit because money ruled; not horses. Owners want results, and like sausage, don't see how it's accomplished, and trainers have to give it to them or they don't train the next one. I don't know why they run 2-year-olds, but I'll bet it has to do with money. Pam8

Out of great compassion for Eight Belles and animals everywhere, it's time to stop using all animals for sport. I will no longer go to Kentucky Derby parties. I hope PETA takes up this cause. Human beings around the world need to understand that animals are not here for our amusement and domination. It is barbaric. -- yrreb
Posted at 09:18 PM/ET, May 04, 2008 in Horse Racing | Permalink

smokey the elder

05-05-2008, 09:53 AM

It's bad for the horses and the sport if in every race you figure there's a good chance of a horse dying. I think horses like to run; it's in their genes. But more careful breeding and training needs to be done. I don't think it would be a bad idea if horses did not race until 4 years of age, rather than 3. Because the official Thoroughbred birthday is Jan. 1, some of these horses are probably closer to 2 real years old than 3. By pushing the stakes races back to 4 years, the horses might be sturdier and more able to withstand the rigors of racing.

Changing the track surface may help. The way poor Eight Belles broke her ankles suggests a very sudden stop. I don't know if she stepped in a hole or the jockey pulled her up too fast, or what.

K9soul

05-05-2008, 11:09 AM

I'm a racing fan. I always hesitate opening these threads because there are often very uninformed and some downright untrue statements made about racing. A lot of articles in the media are not well informed either. Are there problems going on in the industry? Yes. Just like there are problems going on in anything that deals with animals. There are those who are sleazy and put greed above the animal's welfare, and there are those who consider their animals a part of their family.

If you really want to learn about racing, visit some racing message boards where a lot of people involved with it every day post. Here, for example: http://thoroughbredchampions.com/forum/index.php?board=2.0

Most love their horses and give them all the best they can. Yes there are problems going on. I do not agree with breeding lines that are repeatedly unsound. I do not agree with how early they race and train yearlings. Curlin was not raced until he was 3 and he has shown to be strong, sound and a monster on the race track, an international champion now.

I regularly read this blog, very educational, sometimes humorous and pointing out a lot of problems in the world of horses and breeding practices:

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/

She is very knowledgeable about horses and made a blog entry that I completely agree with regarding Eight Belles and breakdowns. I will quote it here:

For anyone who hasn't heard yet, Eight Belles - the filly entered in this year's Kentucky Derby - placed an impressive second.

Then she broke both ankles, hit the dirt and had to be immediately euthanized.

Yes, another stunningly horrific live-on-camera breakdown. I know everybody is going to want to discuss this. I'll give you my 2 cents worth first and then you can give yours.

I do not think racing is evil or cruel or any worse than most other equestrian disciplines.

However, I feel strongly that yearlings should not be ridden - no matter what the purpose. I don't care if it's a yearling who is going to be a racehorse, a yearling who is going to be a show horse, or a yearling who is going to be your pleasure horse. They are NOT READY to carry weight. I am absolutely convinced that riding them too early contributes to breakdowns in racing, as well as all of the 3 and 4 year olds with ringbone, navicular and arthritis that are quietly shuffled out the back door of Big Mister Pleasure Trainer's Barn and off to the auction they go without their papers.

That's not on TV though. I almost feel sorry for racing, it takes the lion's share of the badmouthing because it's so public. Someone needs to do a little research project and try to figure out how many of the get of any Big Name AQHA or APHA stud are alive, well, and sound at age 10. That's something I would love to read.

I will go so far as to say I believe riding a horse under 24 months of age should be illegal.

Do I think that Eight Belles' owners/trainer/jockey are greedy bastards who don't care what happened to her? No. I am sure they are miserable right now. I am sure they wanted nothing more for her than a nice retirement after this, raising her babies. However, they - and everybody else involved in racing - need to look at all the breakdowns and ask themselves how they can decrease these fatal events in the future. Boy, would I be impressed if they came out publicly and said they weren't going to ride yearlings anymore...that they were going to do as my friend does who has racehorses in SoCal and break them out as late 2's and race them at 3. If they would come out and say they learned from their mistake - running the crap out of a huge (17 hands, reportedly) baby who wasn't ready - I would totally respect that. I'd love it if they said, we don't care what everybody else does, we're not going to do it anymore.

cassiesmom

05-05-2008, 11:46 AM

lvpets2002

05-05-2008, 12:54 PM

:( Oh I was just so Defastated & Heart Broken.. I could not watch it on TV.. It made me so so Sad.. Poor Baby Eight Bells & May You RIP.. Hope you are with the other Beloved PT Angels at RB..

lizbud

05-05-2008, 01:21 PM

smokey the elder

05-05-2008, 03:16 PM

I wonder if they'll learn anything from the necropsy that I hope they perform (underdeveloped legs unable to carry a 17h tall horse, say.)

lizbud

05-05-2008, 04:52 PM

I wonder if they'll learn anything from the necropsy that I hope they perform (underdeveloped legs unable to carry a 17h tall horse, say.)

Do you think they will get into the actual details for cause? They could
just say "broken such & such bones "in both ankles & not make any specific
interpretation beyond that.

RICHARD

05-05-2008, 05:54 PM

A necropsy could tell if the animal had any 'congenital' defects. Are they really congenital in the classic sense-when they are bred into a horse?

ESPN did a piece today on horse racing and I heard something in the piece (the program was Outside The Lines) that shocked me.

One of the experts said that horse owners have 'plastic' surgery done to horse to make them more presentable to possible purchasers. What I got out of the piece was that people will take a horse that does not fit the criteria of a racer and have whatever defect corrected.

The conversation went in another direction.

If a man marries a woman that has undergone surgery and expects their offspring to inherit some traits from her, he is in for a surprise.

--------------------

I think someone posted that all the horses in the race were descendants of one horse.
I think that a cover-up or shushing up a report would cause more problems.

How?

If a necropsy finds out that there is a defect in the ankle or lower leg of EB it would serve as an alarm to all the owners who have horse from this genetic line.

Any horse sold after that -and because lineage is a very special point in the sales and ownership of any competing equine - will be looked at as a risky investment. Will owners look at it as a deriment? Or, will they pooh pooh the news as part of the racing business?

-----------------

4 year olds with ringbone, navicular and arthritis that are quietly shuffled out the back door of Big Mister Pleasure Trainer's Barn and off to the auction they go without their papers.

This is a telling statement. I'd like to believe that most of the animals end up stuck inside a stall for six days, 23 hours a week and ridden by some rich twit that wants to own a horse to keep up with the Riches Next Door.

"My horse was a race horse and I saved it! Now it's safe in a stall where it only runs for a hour a week!":confused:

Jessika

05-05-2008, 08:33 PM

I do not know anything about horse racing one way or the other to even have an opinion about it on that perspective, all I know is that when horses break their legs it isn't like a human or cat or dog breaking their legs. Their anatomy is so different; they have ONE weight-bearing digit whereas us humans, cats and dogs (for example) have four/five. Not to mention the sheer weight of most of them its amazing if any horse IS able to survive a broken bone, much less two broken carpals!! Which bone was broken, does it say if it was the cannon? Regardless; euthanization was the most humane decision to make in that circumstance, IMO.

Vela

05-05-2008, 08:52 PM

I had read an account of the race that said Eight Belles was whipped
repeatedly down the stretch to the finish. I just read this article which
confirmed that with an explaination, of sorts. I don't believe it. They were
pushing her speed, period.

Eight Belles' trainer defends jockey

Posted: Today at 11:18 a.m.

LEXINGTON, Ky. — The trainer of euthanized filly Eight Belles says his jockey handled the horse properly during her second-place finish at the Kentucky Derby.

Trainer Larry Jones told The Associated Press on Monday that if the Derby were run again tomorrow, he'd put jockey Gabriel Saez right back on one of his horses.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has called for the suspension of Saez. The group says the horse must have been injured during the race, and Saez should have pulled her up rather than finish.

But Jones says Saez acted exactly as he should have. He says the jockey started whipping the horse to prevent her from running into the rail.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Sorry but it's incorrect. She was hit 4 times with the stick in the entire stretch, once on the outside and three times on the inside. It was not harsh nor merciless whipping. He also waved the whip by her head, without touching her with it, to keep in a straight path rather then veering in to the rail. I just watched the race again and counted it. Not to mention they aren't whipping the crap out of them, there is a leather popper on the end and it's generally not painful. He did not overwhip that horse. The horse was NOT hurt in the race. She ran all the way around the far turn and was pulling up with her ears pricked, there are pictures of it. She was not in distress. She changed leads and when she did her ankle snapped, I saw it on tape. As she went down her other ankle took the weight awkwardly and snapped. It was a freak accident that has never occured in that way before. She was not injured in the race, regardless of what PETA says.

Fan of racing or not a fan of racing, those are the real facts.

I disagree with horses being trained so young for any sport, especialy this one, I think it leads to problems and issues, but the facts of THIS particular case are being exaggerated in general. She was fit for the race, she ran well and placed well. She was not run out of her league. I am horribly saddened by what happened to her, I have been following her quite a while and the stable of horses for years. They are all very devastated by her loss.

Race horses are bred to race, it's what they WANT to do. If they don't want to they are often rehomed, at least by ethical breeders and owners. The stable that owns this filly sends their retired or nonracing horses to new owners for 1 dollar and retain the rights to the horse so it is never in jeopardy of being slaughtered or misused. There is a whole lot more to the sport than people know. Bad things happen, and it SUCKS, but the jockey didn't do anything wrong.

Also, Richard, yes the horses all went back to Native Dancer, but that wasn't the soundness problem, and none of the other horses went down. Hell if you go back far enough all of them came from three sire lines, three arabian stallions. So yes they are all related in that sense. If i go back far enough my morgan and my tennessee walker are related too. But her sire, Unbridled, is notorious for having unsound offspring due to genetics and I wish they would not breed less than sound horses. It does not help the situation at all. I also think they shouldn't be raced before at least 3, preferably 4.

Alysser

05-05-2008, 09:40 PM

I was never really against horse racing. I had never seen a problem with it other then the fact that the horses were trained to young. Not matter what ANYONE says, I think it's a bit far as to say it's animal cruelty, I have never believed that. Those horses are treated like royalty an are loved very much by their owners. One thing that gets me is when people say the horses are forced to run. If I have learned anything from my 2 years of horse-back riding lessons I'd have to say there is NO WAY in hell you can get a horse to run if it doesn't want to. Thoroughbreds are bred to run and most of them love what they do. No one makes those horses run, they want to run. Basically, I enjoy watching horse racing over all. Alot of facts on the internet are made up lies. I've learned not to really trust the internet with things like that.

I heard horses carry 60% of their bodies on their front legs. I do not know how true this is but that would leave little to no chance of Eight Bells surviving. It really is a shame, she was such a young, beautiful horse with a lot of potential. But if the 60% thing is true, it would be completely inhumane to keep her alive. I have to say though, all I kept thinking about was Barbaro to. I would really like to see a racehorse survive something like that and be able to walk again.

Rest in Peace, Eight Bells. :( May you run as free as the wind at the RB.

dukedogsmom

05-05-2008, 09:40 PM

This tragedy has hurt my heart so deeply. I wish I could have been by her side to comfort her. I don't support racing (dog or horse). There are plenty of things for intertainment without victimizing animals.

I wrote this poem this morning

Eight Belles in the wind
Beautiful melody that will never end
Running free now without pain
May your death not have been in vain

You ran for the roses with heart and soul
True to your lineage from long ago
With heavy hearts, our tears fall
You shouldn't have died at all

The rainbow bridge is now your home
With never ending pastures to roam
Eight Belles in the wind
Beautiful melody that will never end

RICHARD

05-05-2008, 09:47 PM

Also, Richard, yes the horses all went back to Native Dancer, but that wasn't the soundness problem, and none of the other horses went down. Hell if you go back far enough all of them came from three sire lines, three arabian stallions. So yes they are all related in that sense. If i go back far enough my morgan and my tennessee walker are related too. But her sire, Unbridled, is notorious for having unsound offspring due to genetics and I wish they would not breed less than sound horses. It does not help the situation at all. I also think they shouldn't be raced before at least 3, preferably 4.

Thanks!

Can I assume that the breeding is done by picking out the best traits of a horse and breeding them to another animal with some other complimentary traits?

I guess what I wanted to know is what is the family tree and how far down EB was removed, or how her lineage differed from the other horses.

-------------

I am a fan of bull riding and rodeo. I really became interested after seeing "Bodacious".

B was a bull that almost ended Tuff Hedeman's life with a skull to skull hit during a bull ride. It crushed the front of his face and he needed some real surgery to rebuild it.

WHen he was retired, his seed was sold at 2k for a container about the size of a pen refill- this was about 12 years ago.:eek:

Breeders were buying it, trying to breed another bull with the same kind of attitude. That was interesting to me -

Seeing the cost of BS (bull sperm) and the money spent on trying to 'build' a bull, I can imagine the costs of breeding horses.

Seeing the charts on EB would be fascinating.

Pam

05-06-2008, 01:55 AM

I don't support racing (dog or horse). There are plenty of things for intertainment without victimizing animals.

I wrote this poem this morning

Eight Belles in the wind
Beautiful melody that will never end
Running free now without pain
May your death not have been in vain

You ran for the roses with heart and soul
True to your lineage from long ago
With heavy hearts, our tears fall
You shouldn't have died at all

The rainbow bridge is now your home
With never ending pastures to roam
Eight Belles in the wind
Beautiful melody that will never end

I share your views on racing Val. Your poem is beautiful.

Vela

05-06-2008, 08:15 AM

Maltese love, there are a lot of horses who do have fractures and do recover, not usually to race, but they do make it. Nureyev in 1987, recently The Tin Man last year, Mariah's Storm (Dreamer was loosely based on this, she did break her leg and come back and won), Hoist the Flag, Bluegrass Cat had a hairline fracture and was retired safely. There are actually a lot of horses with injuries, even broken bones, who recover and often have new careers or at the least are pasture sound.

Richard, you can go here and look up all of the horses by name. Here is Eight Belles

http://www.pedigreequery.com/eight+belles

You can type in the horse's name you are looking for at the top and it will bring up the bloodlines.

Horses are bred to try to breed out the faults of either parent. Sometimes it works, and someitmes it doesn't. There are lots of Unbridled babies who don't break down too. Like you said, they like to try to breed a weak part of one horse to a horse that is stronger in that area to try to "fix" it, etc. That's the general idea anyway. (BTW I agree Bodacious was one heck of a bull) Debry field is below if you want to look up and compare bloodlines.

Derby Field:
Big Brown
Cool Coal Man
Tale of Ekati
Anak Nakal
Court Vision
Z Fortune
Big Truck
Visionaire
Pyro
Colonel John
Z Humor
Smooth Air
Bob Black Jack
Monba
Adriano
Denis of Cork
Cowboy Cal
Recapturetheglory
Gayego

Also, for those who only hear the negative, there are SO many horses who go to the track every day and they come back fine. You only hear about the horrible side and parts because they don't report about all that horses that DON'T go down. It's a horribly tragedy when they do, but it happens in all sports. Eight Belles was the only horse to die in the derby that I know of, at least in any kind of recent history, like the last 40 years.

pitc9

05-06-2008, 10:24 AM

Vela... you said that race horses are breed to race and they love to race.
How does anyone really know that?

All they know is that's what they've been forced to do since they were born, and if they don't run fast enough they'll end up as part of the 34% of american race horses that end up in slaughterhouse.

According to USDA figures, approximately 90,000 horses have been slaughtered in this country in 2006 as of mid-November. In addition, more than 19,000 horses have been exported to Canada for slaughter and another 8,500 to Mexico.

I understand that horses love to run, but to be forced to run till their bones snap..... that's not what they want to do. Freak accident or not, it happened.

I still can't stop thinking about these horses.
:(

lizbud

05-06-2008, 10:38 AM

Vela

05-06-2008, 10:43 AM

On the flip side, what makes you think they are forced? Do you spend time around race horses? Do you know anyone in racing? I do and I know the horses and those who do it LOVE to run. They aren't forced, half the time they have a hard time keeping them from running too fast in work outs. The horses LIKE it. My Morgan LOVES to run. He would run all day if I let him. I have to ask him NOT to. I don't force him. There are horses who don't like to race or run, don't have it in them the desire to do it, so they don't race them. If a horse doesn't run and doesn't want to perform, they are not raced. You cannot force a horse to run and/or win if it doesn't want to. Knowledge like that comes only from being around an animal and getting to know it.

There are poor trainers and barns and breeders in thoroughbred racing, just like in every sport, but unless you have spent time with the people and horses involved, you can't make assumptions based on seeing a few horrific stories. Well I guess you can, but they won't be accurate. NOBODY wants to see their horse go down like that. The jockey was in tears, the owner was in tears, the trainer was in tears. The love them, they pamper them, they take VERY good care of them, most of the people.

I know of owners and trainers who have rehomed horses who didn't like to run or had injuries that prevented them from running safely. A HUGE majority of those horses are now in "pet" homes living a good life and well loved by someone else. The Jackson's retired Barbro's brother, Man in Havana, to be a hack horse on the farm, because he didn't like to run. Rick Porter, who owned Eight Belles, rehomes horses who aren't happy racing with other families for most of the time NO money. He then keeps track of the horses to make sure they are well cared for.

And that is not true that if they don't run fast enough they will end up at slaughter. Some will, yes, but MORE horses end up on slaughter houses because of hore people being BYB or horse mills, just like puppy mills. There are back yard breeders in horses just like in dogs, and that is where the majority of the slaughter horses come from. I know all about the slaughter statistics, but that is only part of the picture. The horses who are bred with no thought to where they will find homes, whose parents are poor breeding animals, and the horses with no training or are very old are the horses that generally end up at slaughter. I will not pretend no race horses ever go there, some do, but you can't make a broad based judgement about a whole industry because some of the people in it do the wrong thing.

Unless you actually know the animals and people involved, you don't know what they do or don't like to do. You can TELL when an animal is happy or unhappy, just like with your own dogs. Horses are just as expressive.

Comparing horse racing and pitbull fighting is a little odd though.

I don't think people should watch horse racing if they don't like the sport, or have issue with it, then it will just upset them, but to paint everyone involved with the same brush and make them out to be sadistic jerks is not true either.

critter crazy

05-06-2008, 10:55 AM

Yeah,horses love to run like greyhounds love to run & pit bulls love to fight.:rolleyes:

How the heck can you say that Greyhounds dont love to run??? That is what they do!! Even a Greyhound, that has never raced, will run for the sheer enjoyment! That is what they Love!! Horses are the same way!! Horses love to run, they arent forced!! Do you have any idea how hard it is to force a 1200lb plus animal to anything??? I do! Horses love to run, and they will gladly do it all day long if allowed.

How you can compare Dog fighting to racing, is beyond me!! There is no comparison at all!!

as far as the racing industry goes, horses should not be allowed to be even started on the track, till they are at least 4yrs old. They need this time to grow.

Vela

05-06-2008, 11:01 AM

as far as the racing industry goes, horses should not be allowed to be even started on the track, till they are at least 4yrs old. They need this time to grow.

I agree with starting them too young. I wish they would wait. Maybe time will change that about the sport and they will simply move all of the races back a year in age. Maybe not, but I can hope! If they moved all races back one year in age, there would be fewer breakdowns IMO.

pitc9

05-06-2008, 12:31 PM

I don't think people should watch horse racing if they don't like the sport, or have issue with it, then it will just upset them,

Even then it will all still go on, not watching it will never make it go away. And with the way the pictures of Eight Bells and her injuries have been plastered all over the news and internet, it's hard not to see her.

but to paint everyone involved with the same brush and make them out to be sadistic jerks is not true either.

I'm not lumping all horse breeders/trainers..etc. together. It's the same that goes for dog breeders. One bad person is all it takes to ruin it all for everyone, and I understand that.

Sometimes I think it's less upsetting to know that a homeless dog is being put to sleep rather than a homeless horse is being sent to slaughter.

Seeing what happened to Eight Bells on Live TV is what's making this hurt that much more and is what has upset people, like me, that are against racing even more. To see first hand what can, and does happen to those young horses.

Grace

05-06-2008, 12:49 PM

Yes, horses love to run. If you doubt this just go to You Tube and type in Secretariat Belmont. Sit back and watch a horse who loved to run.

He won by 31 lengths; the jockey didn't lay a hand on him; Secretariat simply loved running.

RICHARD

05-06-2008, 02:12 PM

Just for the record.

Animals evolve into their bodies and body parts become 'specialty' traits.

Dogs?

Whippets and GHs got the legs to run, terriers got the speed and the digging gene?

Sledders? St Bernards? Coats to keep them warm. Looking at a horse you would have to guess that long lean legs would be a predisposition to speed.

When you look at the long-legged animals, deer, giraffes and elk- they all have the speedy leg look. It only makes sense to assume that a horse is a runner.

lizbud

05-06-2008, 04:51 PM

How you can compare Dog fighting to racing, is beyond me!! There is no comparison at all!!

The common thread with all of these animals is they are all exploited on
some level to make money for people & this really ticks me off. They are
not pets, they are commercial products.

Pam

05-06-2008, 05:37 PM

The common thread with all of these animals is they are all exploited on
some level to make money for people & this really ticks me off. They are
not pets, they are commercial products.

Agree 100% Liz.

dukedogsmom

05-07-2008, 11:25 AM

As do I.