Pics to Share

[Spiritwind]

I haven't been online here for a year or so.. but finally after things around here have calmed down a little bit.. I'm back LOL so thought I'd share some of the recent pictures I got of a couple of my dogs...

http://i27.tinypic.com/2e2qdk9.jpg
Andy - Spiritwind Visionary - 14 months

http://i28.tinypic.com/x1gbra.jpg
Andy

Then pictures of Andy's brother Aiden...

http://i32.tinypic.com/r26ipk.jpg
Aiden - Spiritwind Vision Quest - 14 months

http://i26.tinypic.com/21jugc0.jpg

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Welcome back! Your boys are stunning

[cyber-sibes]

Handsome fluffy boys!

[cassiesmom]

Wow, wowie wow! Andy and Aiden, you're magnificent! Beautiful.

Spiritwind (or anyone else!), can you help me with something I've always wanted to know? How is a collie the same or different from a Sheltie? And just one more question - there are collies, border collies, smooth collies, rough collies, bearded collies - what differentiates them from each other? Do they all have that sweet collie personality? I've only known one in my life, but he was very patient and loved to be petted.

[Spiritwind]

Thanks Cassiesmom,

First... Collies and shelties are very different. I know to alot of people they look very similar other than size... but there are a lot of differences. Shelties are not miniature Collies, they are a completely different breed.

Obviously there is the size difference. Collies are supposed to be males 24-26" tall and females 22-24" tall. Shelties are supposed to be 13-16" tall I believe??? but Sheltie are disqualified for being under or over sized in the show ring.. where are Collies are not..

The biggest difference to me (and I do not own shelties, but there are several that live on the property - not mine.. hard to explain) but the biggest difference to me is their temperament. I am trying to word this the right way because I don't want to offend anyone.. because I am NOT trying to say anything negative about shelties, they are a great breed and beautiful dogs.. just not for me. I guess overall Collies are more mellow.. though again I have a couple that would be bouncing off the walls if they were left inside with little exercise throughout the day... so they are still very active. Shelties are more excitable (based on the ones I have known and I have known A LOT).. and IMO are a bit more barky, though my Collies do their fair share of barking. I don't know, its hard to explain, but once you are around both breeds for a while it is so easy to notice how different they really are.

Also.. Collies come in 2 coat varieities (rough and smooth) and 4 colors - Sable, Tri-Color, Blue Merle and Color Headed Whites. Shelties obviously don't come smooth coated, and along with the 4 colors Collies come in, shelties also come in Bi-Blue and Bi-Black (Blue merle and white or black and white with no tan points).. Color headed white Collies can be shown, Color headed white shelties cannot.

Both are very smart dogs that are easily trained and great family dogs...

As far as your other question... typically when a person says they have a Collie they are talking about Rough or Smooth Collies. Aiden and Andy are Rough Colliess. The AKC registers Rough and smooth Collies just as Collies. On their papers it does not say the coat varieity (rough or smooth). Rough and Smooths are just different varieties of the same breed... Roughs and Smooths can be bred together. I will post pics of some of my other dogs both roughs and smooths.

I have only ever known a handful of border collies and bearded collies, but they are both a completely different breed from collies (rough and smooth)..they all have their own distinct temperament... all are herding breeds that originated in scotland and/or northern england.

Here are some pics of some of my dogs:

http://i27.tinypic.com/2eeh4wm.jpg
This is Paris - CH Spiritwind Barely An Angel. My smooth sable Collie. Her mother is a rough coat her sire is a smooth coat.

http://i25.tinypic.com/1zmp56s.jpg
This is Kelsey - Spiritwind Ain't No Angel. She is a rough tri-color, and she is also Paris' litter sister. She is also the mother of Aiden and Andy.

http://i31.tinypic.com/20g1ili.jpg
This is Lucy - ptd. Spiritwind Rumor Has It - a smooth tri-color. Sire is a smooth dam is a rough. Pictured at just 4 months old.

http://i32.tinypic.com/jac4f4.jpg
And last but not least this is Angie, a rough blue merle - who is the mother of Paris and Kelsey. Her sire was a smooth tri-color her dam was a rough blue.

[anna_66]

Hey there...welcome back!

Nice to see some pictures of your gorgeous dogs:D

[Karen]

Beautiful doggies, good to see you back. Thanks for sharing the pictures! Your boys have certainly filled out well, those are very impressive white "shirtfronts" they've both got!

[chocolatepuppy]

Your collies are gorgeous! Welcome back! :D

[binka_nugget]

The biggest difference to me (and I do not own shelties, but there are several that live on the property - not mine.. hard to explain) but the biggest difference to me is their temperament. I am trying to word this the right way because I don't want to offend anyone.. because I am NOT trying to say anything negative about shelties, they are a great breed and beautiful dogs.. just not for me. I guess overall Collies are more mellow.. though again I have a couple that would be bouncing off the walls if they were left inside with little exercise throughout the day... so they are still very active. Shelties are more excitable (based on the ones I have known and I have known A LOT).. and IMO are a bit more barky, though my Collies do their fair share of barking. I don't know, its hard to explain, but once you are around both breeds for a while it is so easy to notice how different they really are.

I'll vouch for that! :p Shelties are typically a little more "yap, yap, yap" *zoomies* "yap, yap, yap". The Collies I've known have been more mellow, yet still very active and playful.. just a little more stable as far as excitability goes.

Beautiful dogs Spiritwind! It's great to see you back! I was actually just thinking about your dogs the other day and wondering where you went. :p

[Shelteez2]

You have way too many dogs. You should get rid of some.



My address is...... lol

OMG *swoons* I am in love with Andy. Send him on up ;)

[IRescue452]

your dogs are very beautiful.

Other differences between the sheltie and collies are the skull and tail. Collies have a less defined stop. Shelties have a definate stop and their top skull must parallel their muzzle. Shelties cannot have a twist at the end of the tail as do collies. Shelties tails must also end at the hocks, collies can go further.

[Spiritwind]

Shelteez.. LOL I'm sure your dogs would just love to have Andy added to their pack if you really want to LOL


IRescue452 has far as the other differences between Collies and Shelties... Shelties do have more stop.. Collies stops are less defined, however Collies are supposed to have a slight stop.. but Collies head plains (backskull and muzzle) should also be parallel to eachother just like shelties... its not supposed to be a straight line from backskull to muzzle (there should be a slight "break" where the stop is) though I know a lot of dogs are more like that.

Collies tails are supposed to go to atleast to top of the hock joint... I know shelties tails are supposed to reach at least to the hock joint, however I know A LOT of shelties with shorter tails.. I've seen some at shows where the tail only goes half way to the hock (and I know several sheltie breeders and have seen this in some of their dogs)... the other people that live on the property (professional handlers) have a sheltie litter right now, where one of the pups was born with such a short tail it looks like it was docked... its also got a cork screw twist/kink to the tail... but if it was straight it still wouldn't be very long.. but you are right.. collie tails tend to have a little twist at the end where shelties do not, or are not supposed to... both dogs should carry the tail straight out from their body when moving (collies with the little twist).. and not up over their back... like i see in a lot of Collies at shows..

[Flatcoatluver]

Wow! Your dogs are so stunning! I hope someday to own a rough or smooth. I tend to worry about bloat though. I just can't get over how stunning Andy is!!


Also to add, I can't tell you how many times I have been asked if Sage was a mini Collie.

[CountryWolf07]

You have way too many dogs. You should get rid of some.



My address is...... lol

OMG *swoons* I am in love with Andy. Send him on up ;)

lol...

Beautiful dogs!!

My aunt has a Collie named Beau. :)

[Spiritwind]

Wow! Your dogs are so stunning! I hope someday to own a rough or smooth. I tend to worry about bloat though. I just can't get over how stunning Andy is!!.

Thanks Flatcoatluver...
As far as bloat goes, you just gotta make sure you do your research and find a breeder who is honest about whether or not they have had bloat in their lines. I know no one can say for sure what causes bloat, and I am sure the cause is not 100% genetic, there are other factors and causes, however I know it runs in certain lines and you have just got to find a breeder who will be honest about it.. and their are pleanty of breeders out there that will try to hide it, or make up stupid excuses for why it happens in their lines.

If it happens onces or twice and there is no history of close relatives bloating in the predigree.. ok that might be a fluke.. however if you can look at a 5 generation pedigree and name off several dogs in each generation that bloated or produced offspring that later bloated then I'm sorry...you have a problem, whether that breeder wants to admit it or not... I know of a very popular stud dog back in the early 80's that bloated 3 times before it finally killed him...

If it happens in an older dog... 7-8-9 yrs or old.. It can be caused by other things... abdominal masses or other tumors etc.. I friend of mine had her 9yr old lab bloat last year because of a tumor in the abdomen... when it happens in young and otherwise healthy dogs 2-3-4-5 yr old dogs... it is MY personal opinion its very likely genetic... unless you can find other reasons for it.

I have had Collies for just over 13yrs now, and I have had 2 Collies bloat in that time. It was actually father and son who bloated (hmm... kinda odd if other breeders wanna say its not partly genetic??? and there were several other dogs back in their pedigree who bloated) The son bloated first at ONLY 7 months old... I caught it early, he had the surgery to tack his stomach, and was saved.. and later after he recovered from that, was neutered and placed in a pet home that knew his history and had experience with bloat dogs (she had Irish Wolf Hounds that bloated years ago).. he is a happy and healthy 5yr old now. Just over 1yr after the puppy bloated his father was at the co-owners house, she came home from work and found him dead.. he bloated. She said he was fine that morning before she left, acting happy and energetic like he normally was. I do not have any dogs closely or directly related to those 2 dogs anymore... except for one of my smooths who is an outcross one the other side of her pedigree.. so she is not tightly bred on it all...

I have known so many other breeders who have lost so many dogs to bloat and I just don't understand why they try to make excuses for it or even try to hide that it happened... it doesn't help the breed... just admit there is a problem and work to fix it! There are pleanty of other lines out there with no history of bloat... that is one reason why I bought my smooth male Zack several years ago.. I'll post his picture.
Zack is Paris, Kelsey and Lucy's sire.. and the grandsire of Aiden and Andy.

http://i30.tinypic.com/wmkqhe.jpg
Zack

He is tightly bred on and is from a long line of geneticly sound and healthy, long lived dogs.. his great grandsire "Andre" as of the 2007 CCA nationals (where I last saw Andre) was still alive and showed at the national in the 11+yr old Vetran class... he was very slow to move.. but he was 14yrs old at that point!!

A few years ago me and a friend of mine were visiting another collie kennel just to see what they had and look at their dogs.. and the lady there had this 7yr old male she was so excited she was going to have a vetran dog to show at the national that year.. she said she had never had one before.. said her dogs didn't usually make it that long.... please tell me why that is a good thing????

Ok.. I could go on and on about this.. so I better stop now...

Janna

[Flatcoatluver]

Thank you Janna,

You have gave me a lot of information, that I did not get from a lot of breeders when I was talking to collie breeders. One collie breeder said that she only fed her dogs once a day and then lets them out to play 15 mins later. I was a little shocked by that one.

Zack is a stunner!

[Spiritwind]

Thank you Janna,

You have gave me a lot of information, that I did not get from a lot of breeders when I was talking to collie breeders. One collie breeder said that she only fed her dogs once a day and then lets them out to play 15 mins later. I was a little shocked by that one.

Zack is a stunner!

Oh yes.. I've heard of people that do that too... first they will soak the food in warm water for 15 minutes or so to make it all soggy and gross.. then feed them and keep them confined in a crate for 15 minutes or more.. After my first dog bloated I did that for a little while.. but the 2nd dog that bloated, bloated on an empty stomach.. Also both dogs were eating Canidae so you really can't blame the quality of food the dog eats on its bloating..... so while you can try to reduce the risks of bloat, short of tacking the stomachs ahead of time (something I hope breeders do NOT start doing) you can't really prevent it from happening 100% if its gonna happen..

I no longer crate my dogs after eating haven't done that in years.. you have to let them be dogs... they live in a group together (except when girls are in season)... They are fed once a day... they eat a mixture of Canidae and Diamond Naturals, and add 1 can of food and a little bit of warm water to help mix the canned food.. I mix it all up in a large bowl (1 can between 9 dogs so not alot of canned) and scoop it out to their bowls... after they eat if they want to go run and play they can do so... if they want to go crash on the couch they can do that too LOL

[cassiesmom]

Spiritwind, your dogs are beautiful!!

My mom has a friend who has a Sheltie. I've only met him a couple of times - he is very active. Binka nugget said "zoomy", I think that's an ideal description! When I was little, we had a family friend that had a collie. I liked to comb him, and then pet him to "mess it up", and then comb him some more. He put up with me doing that!

[cassiesmom]

Hello, Andy and Aiden, Angie, Kelsey and Paris ... I was just looking at pictures of Lucy in another thread so I came back to look at the pictures of beautiful you again too! :D

[cassiesmom]

Dear Aiden and Andy, I copied this photo from Robilee's thread about Zack. Just in case I haven't already said so today - You are very, very beautiful! Zack is very beautiful, you are both fluffy and magnificent. Paris and Kelsey, Angie and Lucy -- you are gorgeous ladies! And I am back here looking at all your pictures again today because they make me :D smile!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Robilee/IMG_1397.jpg

[Spiritwind]

Thanks Cassiesmom!

Just for added info.. Zack is Andy and Aiden's grandsire! I just love the picture Robin got of those 2 goofy boys!!

[bckrazy]

Andy and Aiden are gorgeous boys! They obviously take after Grandpa Zack. ; )

[K9karen]

Your dogs are drop dead exquisite!

[RobiLee]

Janna, I didn't get too many pics while I was there and what I did take didn't turn out too well. I wish I could have taken some more time to take a ton of pics of all your gorgeous furkids.

This one is blurry but I want everyone to see those bouncing baby boys. I think they should have been called Tigger 1 and Tigger 2...bouncey, bouncey, bouncey. They were so excited to see me and were bouncing up and down. I thought for sure they might just spring right over the fence.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Robilee/IMG_1384.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Robilee/IMG_1385.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Robilee/IMG_1386.jpg

Lucy and Amy, who were outside so I could spend some time with Zack
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Robilee/IMG_1394.jpg

Amy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Robilee/IMG_1395.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Robilee/IMG_1392.jpg

The Doublemint Twins again..lol. Love these two!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Robilee/IMG_1396.jpg


That was all I got. I'm so sad that I didn't get any pics of Paris and Kelsey. Two of my favs. Who am I kidding they are all my favs...lol. Like I said I wish I could have spent lots more time there and took tons of pictures. It was hard to get any snapshots while I was there because they were all so excited to see me..lol. When I first got there Zack, Paris, Lucy and Kelsey were all inside and were all over me, which I was loving...lol. Nothing beats being surrounded by beautiful collies.

[Spiritwind]

LOL love those pictures, especially of Andy and Aiden... see they show off the true collie right there! LOL Or atleast the young rough male! Just BIG, happy, goofy, clowns!! With VERY short attention spans LOL

[Denyce]

I don't have any pictures of my girl that are scanned but I have her in my mind. I will scan some perhaps and post them here. But I grew up with a collie.

I was an only child and at the age of 3 my parents decided to purchase a collie for me. This was in 1965 and they searched around in California and found a collie breeding farm by the name of Autumn Acres. My parents talked to the breeder and told them what they wanted and they choose a sable and white rough coated female.

We went to the farm to pick up our puppy. This is probably the earliest memory I have but I got out of the car and this herd of puppies came racing over and knocked me down and just crawled all over me licking and yelping. I picked up the one that was licking me the most and declared I wanted THIS ONE. Luckily it was the female my parents had decided on and we took her home. I got to name her and since Lassie was my absolutely favorite show on TV you can guess what we named her.

Little Lassie of Autumn Acres was her registered name.

She was my Lassie. She was my very best friend and companion until I was 17 years old. When I was 5 and I was deaf from all the fluid in my ears it was determined it was due to dog allergies and the fact that I slept each night with my face buried in Lassies ruff. I was given the choice of getting rid of the dog or going on shots once a week. Well I of course chose the shots.

She would instinctually do what the dog on TV would. She would keep my friends and myself away from the street or strangers or strange dogs. She always watched out for us and made sure no one she didn't know approached. She never bit anyone in her entire life but she sure scared the hell out of some people. But she was gentle and kind with kids and people she knew. She would pull us by the back of our little sundresses until we were away from the sidewalk.

She hated water with a passion but when we went camping in the Sierra Nevadas she would follow me into every stream just barking and complaining to my parents that they were allowing me to go into DANGER DANGER! Denyce is in the well!

My whole life it was like having a celebrity. We took her with us everywhere we went it seems. Kids would go..."Look mom there's Lassie". She of course would turn her head at hearing her name and watch the child go ballistic because they were postivie she was the "real" Lassie. Of course in true collie fashion she was be ballistic also. We used to say she would bark at a leaf blowing down the street.

She was an awesome fantastic dog and I am almost 46 and I still cry from missing her. At 17 I made the ultimate decision to let her go. She had loved and protected me for so long I had to love her that much back.

I didn't get another dog until 4 years ago when we rescued Sequoia our husky. Now I have a "snow dog" celebrity. *soft smile*

[RobiLee]

Denyce, thank you so much for sharing that story. It really touched my heart and I could feel everything you were feeling when you wrote it.

{{{HUGS}}}

Give some of those hugs to that beautiful snow dog that you have now! :)

[Denyce]

Thank you. You know the differences between the collie and the husky are so much more than I would have thought but I love them both as much. Sequoia wouldn't guard or protect us for nothing and most of the time people have no idea we have a dog because she is so quiet. But the playfulness and love is all the same. I don't know if I can have a collie again. Lassie was so perfect and such a HUGE part of my childhood and what made me what I am that I wouldn't want to always compare my new collie with her. But I love them and the pictures of them take my breath away.

[RobiLee]

I understand what you mean about getting another collie.

I have to say that even though I have only had Zack for a week now, not even quite a week yet,that I have fallen hard for this breed. When he goes outside he seems so protective and barks so mean at the neighbors but when he is inside he is this shy timid boy and so sweet and endearing. He seems so gentle. Last night I actually had him bouncing around the living room with me,katie and tori. Now that was fun! It was so good to have all 4 of us playing together. I definitely see more collies in the future for me ;)

[Denyce]

Ok. I missed Zack. I had to do a search so I saw his pictures. Wow! He is beautiful and I am sure you are going to enjoy many happy years with him. *happy sigh* Lassie for some reason really hated huskies and malamutes. It was the only dog she would ever go after. Well except for the time mom told her the little floppy dog that the owners down the street would let loose to piddle in everyone else's yard was a cat and let her loose. She took off across the yard, knocked that evil "cat" over and had her paw on it's belly before realizing it was a dog. She let it up with a perpelxed look on her face and shaking her head. She must have thought mom was such an idiot. I tell you that little floppy dog never came back.

she always acted like she HATED cats but one time the neighbor got a kitten that was way too young and would put it on top of a dog house so the beagle couldn't reach it. Lassie would put her paws on the top of the fence from our side and bring the kitten into our yard and take care of it all day long. She did that for a couple of weeks until she felt the kitten was old enough to take care of itself. From then on she would chase the kitten if she saw it. She never caught it but she would chase it barking like mad.

[cassiesmom]

Spiritwind, your dogs are beautiful!!

My mom has a friend who has a Sheltie. I've only met him a couple of times - he is very active. Binka nugget said "zoomy", I think that's an ideal description! When I was little, we had a family friend that had a collie. I liked to comb him, and then pet him to "mess it up", and then comb him some more. He put up with me doing that!

We visited my mom's friend - and her Sheltie - on Saturday. He was very happily zoomy! Like "You're playing with me and we're outside! Isn't that just the greatest thing ever?!" When we went inside for coffee, though, he did go around to everyone, one by one, for petting.