What is YOUR definition of a BYB?

[buttercup132]

After the recent Chi thread I've seen some people have different meanings for BYB.

Personally I classify anyone who doesn't breed to better the breed a BYB.

[critter crazy]

I would classify it as ayone out to make money!

[Lori Jordan]

I agree with what critter crazy has said,Also a byb is someone who also owns 10 different breeds of small dogs,There is a lady out about 20 minutes away from me.

Also here in Canada there is a classified site called Kijiji,Most people on there are either"designer Breeds" or the Yorkie poo's my blood boils when i see names like that.

People get this idea that there going to be making so much money breeding,In reality you dont!

I also find it rediculous that people slap two different breeds together and try to sell them for 1500,00????It makes me sick to my stomach!

All they are doing is putting 2 dogs together and with all the testing that needs to be done on different breeds how long is the dog going to live?

[Kfamr]

Anyone who breeds their pet dogs - meaning the dogs aren't health certified, registered, true epitome of their breed, etc.

[Hellow]

I would also classify it as a person who is out to make money by breeding, which is a practical impossibility, considering all the costs(EX: Food, vet, shelter, exc.) plus the time took to care for the puppies and mother and father plus the time took to care for other things. I also consider them as a person who doesn't have their dogs registered with a reputable kennel club. I would also classify them as a person who lets their dogs breed uncontrollably then having no place for them to go, then they end up in a pound or in AC, or dead.

[Flatcoatluver]

I agree with what critter crazy has said,Also a byb is someone who also owns 10 different breeds of small dogs,There is a lady out about 20 minutes away frrom me.

Funny, I would classify that as a puppy mill.

To me a byb is a breeder who doesn't health test there dogs (example. Hips, eyes, thyroid, elbows, and etc) also someone who doesn't show there dogs, so they don't know if there standard, or if someone doesn't field test the sporting breeds, herding with the herding breeds.

Someone who does it for the money, there dog's could be parents, because there dog's make great pets, there dogs are cute, or they want double of there dogs.

Someone in the chi thread said they don't care about there dogs, they are only in it for the money and that's what makes a BYB. I disagree with that completely. I know many byb's who do it for the experience of there children, but also care about there dogs deeply, they are just ignorant about the right way to breed.

I work at a dog kennel and train dogs, I hear all the "excuses" in the book of why they should breed. :)

[buttercup132]

Also here in Canada there is a classified site called Kijiji,Most people on there are either"designer Breeds" or the Yorkie poo's my blood boils when i see names like that.
I HATE that site (but I always look there). There is so many designer breeds and dogs for stud that are mixed. Their reasons for breeding is "Oh Rex wants to get his groove on" "Missy is looking for a man to call her own" "Oh my dog has a great temperment!"

Also the people who advertise for Christmas puppies. I'm pretty sure good breeders don't breed around that time anyways because they know that alot of people just want them for presents. There are shelters too that won't adopt out on near Christmas.

[pitc9]

Personally I classify anyone who doesn't breed to better the breed a BYB.

I agree 1000%!!

[lvpets2002]

:o BackYardBuddies = Heck I am ClueLess

[buttercup132]

:o BackYardBuddies = Heck I am ClueLessBackyard breeders :p

[Ginger's Mom]

Personally I classify anyone who doesn't breed to better the breed a BYB.
Initially I was going to second (or third) this, but then I read the below one and liked the way it was worded a little better.

To me a byb is a breeder who doesn't health test there dogs (example. Hips, eyes, thyroid, elbows, and etc) also someone who doesn't show there dogs, so they don't know if there standard, or if someone doesn't field test the sporting breeds, herding with the herding breeds.

Someone who does it for the money, there dog's could be parents, because there dog's make great pets, there dogs are cute, or they want double of there dogs
Although my quick easy answer would be the same as buttercup's, it doesn't say enough about what is meant by "better the breed." A Backyard Breeder is anyone who does not do everything necessary to make sure through proper temperment testing, physical testing and comparing the traits of the two dogs to be mated to attempt as best they can to ensure that the puppies will grow into physically and mentally sound dogs that can behave in a manner that the particular breed was meant to behave (be it hunting, protecting, or just being a companion animal).

[Freedom]

I don’t think a BYB needs to have lots of dogs. They can have just one breeding pair.

BYB’s do not enter their dogs in conformation. They are not involved in the breed club, either. They do not know the breed lines of the parents. They do not have genetic or health testing done on the parents; they have no health clearances for the parents. They are not interested in scientific breeding, and will breed the same bitch and dog repeatedly. They usually own both parents. A BYB may have a completely unplanned litter; and will breed a bitch more times than is healthy, and more often than is healthy.

The parent dogs have little or no training and get minimal exercise. The parent dogs may not be socialized.

The person has selected a dog breed which is “popular,” as sales are an important part of the operation.

The BYB does not matches buyers to puppies. A BYB will let the person pick the one that is “cutest.” After all, they are “just pets,” not show dogs.

There are loads of sites which set out the characteristics of BYBs. And of puppy mills.

From http://www.21stcenturycares.org/backyardbreeders.htm:
**Anyone who has a litter for fun, profit or by ‘accident’.
**Anyone who is so uninformed that they think having AKC papers means that their pet is breeding quality. RIDICULOUS!!
**Anyone who advertises their litters in the local paper for sale. (respected breeders only advertise in trade magazines)
**Anyone who thinks that by finding their puppies good homes that they somehow don’t have to play by the rules or take responsibility. MANY WILL STILL ULTIMATELY END UP IN THE POUND AFTER YEARS OF ABUSE OR NEGLECT!!!
**Anyone who thinks they found their litter good homes, simply because everyone that took one, smiled honestly and ‘promised’ to treat them well.. Thus insisting on no background check, no enforceable contract or any type of follow up. A PERFECT RECIPE FOR A SAD LIFE FOR THE POOR PUPPY.
**People may /will provide erroneous information to the potential adopters regarding the required care and treatment necessary for the pet - simply for their own personal gains and claim to know much more than they really do for ego boosts.
**Respectable breeders will have walls adorned with trophies and certificates which represent the numerous championships they’ve acquired over the years.

[binka_nugget]

In short, it's someone who doesn't breed to better the breed.

Now here's my long-winded definition. A backyard breeder is anyone who: breeds for money, wants their children to experience the miracle of life, breeds because their dog is cute, doesn't go through health clearances (hips, eyes, thyroid, elbows, etc), thinks their bitch would make a good mom, yada yada yada.

Responsible breeders breed to better the breed. The dogs don't necessarily have to be shown and have Championships though. For example, drive and working ability is more important than conformation for Malinois, herding instinct is important for working BCs, etc. With that said, responsible breeders will prove that their dogs excel in whatever it is they are breeding for, be it conformation, schutzhund, french ring, herding, tracking, hunting, etc. In addition to proving that their dogs excel in their chosen sport(s), their dogs will also be tested for hips, eyes, elbows, whatever the health problem is in their breed. They only have as many dogs as they are able to properly care for. They focus on quality over quantity. They have contracts stating that dogs must be returned to them if the owner decides they don't want it anymore.

Basically, anyone who breeds and doesn't do the above things, is a BYB in my books.

[Giselle]

Like members before me already stated, a BYB is anybody who does not breed to better the breed. Thus, anybody who does not health test their dogs, does not show their dogs either in conformation or in the field, breeds unacceptable or abnormal varieties ("Imperial Shih Tzus", parti-color poodles [AKC DQ], "Tiny Toy Chihuahuas", etc.), and anybody who breeds for money is a BYB.

Now, there are also irresponsible breeders who are every bit as bad as BYBs. Irresponsible breeders may health test their dogs, they may show every once in a while and have a couple CH's here and there. They may love their dogs dearly, but they are ignorant. I once knew a breeder who, on the outside, seemed like a reputable breeder. However, her dogs began throwing dysplastic pups. Yet, she denied any genetic link and continued to breed her dogs without a second thought.

There should only be one type of breeder: one who strives to produce puppies even better than the parents of the pups. A responsible breeder is one who produces stronger, healthier puppies truer to the standard. Any breeder who does not follow these rules is a BYB/irresponsible breeder.

[ScottieMommy]

I have to come in here and add this. I know a lady who breeds Beagles. She spend over 2 years researching about the breed and learning. She first got a spayed female Beagle puppy. Once the puppy passed away she started looking to breed, she DINT take at breeding right away and she ONLY breeds Beagles NO she does not mix them either. She will health test all her dogs, she will care for them like ANY reputable breeder would do. She lives alone out in the estates and she does this for a passion for Beagles. She does NOT work and lives alone. She owns a lot of land and manages with all. She is over 50 years old, and you should see the condition her dogs are in passed excelence. The sad thing is that she has NO time to show, and does that make her a terrible BYB? She dedicates her life to her dogs, she only has 2 litters per year from different females and she has 3 females and 2 males ALL health tested. She could have more than 6 litters per year if she wanted and NO she only has 2, thats her limit and sometimes none or 1. She NEVER breeds for xmas because she believes pets should never be given as a gift, she does not have a website adverticing her puppies either. She has her own personal vet that comes all the way from Talahasee to give her puppies health certificates plus shots. She lets them go in a spay/neuter contract ONLY. And is sad how she is classified under as a BYB just because she does not show her dogs. Here is something i agree with
BYB is a generalized term that pet people have found handy to use for breeders of other than show quality animals. There certainly are plenty that fit under this term but why not discuss the puppy mills run by people far worse than any BYB. My personal dog is from what folks would call a BYB but she is a true purebred in lineage and is documented. She was also veted immediately and both her parents had been health tested as well. Sure, people other than kennels or show breeders will spend time on forums and ask questions if they want to be informed. I say again, BYB is as generalized a term for folks that don't breed for show etc as player refers to someone that mooches off of others and calls it playing them. Just my humble opinion.
I dont know if you agree or not, but there are good and bad things to everything.
As for puppy mills there is no GOOD thing. Those people are the ones doing wrong to all of us. Having over 50 dogs some dying in cages without them knowing and rotting to death. Those people should be the ones taking the bad name.

[Giselle]

ScottieMommy, this "beagle lady" is middle-aged, unemployed, and lives alone. What is she so busy doing then? How can she not have any time to go to a show every once in a while? I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that this "reputable beagle breeder lady" does not have, what, 1 hour per month to travel to a show?? She doesn't even have to go to a show every month. She could go to a few specialties and pick up majors there. Or is it, her dogs are not of breeding quality and therefore she does not burden herself with showing her dogs?

There are a LOT of perfectly healthy dogs who can get PennHip'd, OFA'd, and whatnot. Almost every agility person I know x-rays and examines their dogs' hips and elbows and sometimes their eyes. Their dogs almost always pass with good or excellent results. These people love their dogs. Should they breed? NO! There are plenty of dogs who can get health tested and pass satisfactorily, but the one major factor that differentiates breeding-quality dogs from pet-quality dogs is their contribution to the overall breed. The only way to prove such quality is through competition - conformation, herding, hunting, lure coursing, Schutzhund, etc.

And I don't know where you got that quote, but it is extremely inaccurate. The author of your quote assumes that the only way to prove your dog is through showing. False false false. There are plenty of other ways that we've already mentioned.

[Freedom]

Responsible breeders breed to better the breed. The dogs don't necessarily have to be shown and have Championships though. For example, drive and working ability is more important than conformation for Malinois, herding instinct is important for working BCs, etc. With that said, responsible breeders will prove that their dogs excel in whatever it is they are breeding for, be it conformation, schutzhund, french ring, herding, tracking, hunting, etc.

Oh yes! I always forget the field work; and I attend plenty of border collie sheep trials, so I have NO excuse; just my nutty brain!

[ScottieMommy]

ScottieMommy, this "beagle lady" is middle-aged, unemployed, and lives alone. What is she so busy doing then? How can she not have any time to go to a show every once in a while? I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that this "reputable beagle breeder lady" does not have, what, 1 hour per month to travel to a show?? She doesn't even have to go to a show every month. She could go to a few specialties and pick up majors there. Or is it, her dogs are not of breeding quality and therefore she does not burden herself with showing her dogs?

There are a LOT of perfectly healthy dogs who can get PennHip'd, OFA'd, and whatnot. Almost every agility person I know x-rays and examines their dogs' hips and elbows and sometimes their eyes. Their dogs almost always pass with good or excellent results. These people love their dogs. Should they breed? NO! There are plenty of dogs who can get health tested and pass satisfactorily, but the one major factor that differentiates breeding-quality dogs from pet-quality dogs is their contribution to the overall breed. The only way to prove such quality is through competition - conformation, herding, hunting, lure coursing, Schutzhund, etc.

And I don't know where you got that quote, but it is extremely inaccurate. The author of your quote assumes that the only way to prove your dog is through showing. False false false. There are plenty of other ways that we've already mentioned.


She owns a lot of land, and is busy most of the day out there. Even tho i would not call it a job is hard to keep up with land and when you are alone. She also visits her grandchildren a lot, and YES she does everything but show her dogs. That does not make her a bad dog owner/breeder to me. There are many worse out there. I dont know anything else since i dint ask her about her personal life much :x

[buttercup132]

Oh yes! I always forget the field work; and I attend plenty of border collie sheep trials, so I have NO excuse; just my nutty brain!I totally forgot about that too. But I agree.

[buttercup132]

She owns a lot of land, and is busy most of the day out there. Even tho i would not call it a job is hard to keep up with land and when you are alone. She also visits her grandchildren a lot, and YES she does everything but show her dogs. That does not make her a bad dog owner/breeder to me. There are many worse out there. I dont know anything else since i dint ask her about her personal life much :xWhy doesn't she hire someone to handle her dogs for her?

[Giselle]

So how does she prove her dogs? As breeders and dog lovers/owners, we become "kennel blind". We become used to our dogs' faults and do not see the glaring faults that may exist beyond our loving gaze.

So, how does she prove her dogs, then? How can she differentiate between breeding quality dogs and pet quality dogs? If she doesn't show in the field or the ring, how can she possibly prove her dogs and choose which dogs will contribute most to the breed? Showing or working your dog in any venue is extremely important for the pure simple fact that it sets apart breeding-quality dogs from companion-quality dogs. If she doesn't show in any venue, how can she responsibly breed the best?

[Kirbys Mom]

can the example of my thread be left alone. my thread turned from a friendly I need help to lets bash the poor girl. Everyone has there opinion but no one like being told there a BYB when there not, and i didnt even geta sorry and i got its al my fault and im wrong and u shouldnt been in that group and this and that. enough please

[buttercup132]

can the example of my thread be left alone. my thread turned from a friendly I need help to lets bash the poor girl. Everyone has there opinion but no one like being told there a BYB when there not, and i didnt even geta sorry and i got its al my fault and im wrong and u shouldnt been in that group and this and that. enough pleaseUm no? It's not like I'm saying to pick on you I'm saying after that thread it got me thinking that other people have different veiws on what a BYB means to them.

Also can you please refrain from using msn spelling and grammar, it makes it really hard to understand what your trying to say.

[ScottieMommy]

So how does she prove her dogs? As breeders and dog lovers/owners, we become "kennel blind". We become used to our dogs' faults and do not see the glaring faults that may exist beyond our loving gaze.

So, how does she prove her dogs, then? How can she differentiate between breeding quality dogs and pet quality dogs? If she doesn't show in the field or the ring, how can she possibly prove her dogs and choose which dogs will contribute most to the breed? Showing or working your dog in any venue is extremely important for the pure simple fact that it sets apart breeding-quality dogs from companion-quality dogs. If she doesn't show in any venue, how can she responsibly breed the best?

I guess she could hire someone to show for her, i have not seen her in over 1 year, i would not be surprised if she already did. My first post was my opinion about BYB'S there are the good and bad ones to me, period. NOT everyone can afford a pet from a breeder, and some BYB'S arent as bad as others. And what if the shelter rejects you as well? Then where do you go for a dog? The pet store? HELL NO, i would never buy from a pet store tho Nena came from there i never actually went in and bought her. I myself dont enter pet stores who sell puppies, period. BYB'S is another way you can get a dog instead of going to the pet store and i am sure is 100% then doing there. Everyone has different opinions.

[Kirbys Mom]

Um no? It's not like I'm saying to pick on you I'm saying after that thread it got me thinking that other people have different veiws on what a BYB means to them.

Also can you please refrain from using msn spelling and grammar, it makes it really hard to understand what your trying to say.
um...no...my grammar is no concern of urs. But still u guys jumped my thread yesterday and i was ready to leave pt for good. you and the rest of the bashes need to stop fighting with harmless ppl who love there pets. I dont bug u about ur pets and how u raise them. if u want to get some thing done in the world about the pet population and puppy mills get out there and do something dont stay at home and sit on ur comp. im done wit u and ur bashin friends. peace out

[Catlady711]

A MUST read for every pet owner out there, or anyone even thinking of owning a pet. The article uses cats in it's example, but it just as easily applies to dogs as well.


http://www.pawsoftulsa.org/spaytosave/just1litter.htm

[3muttsandaboston]

I believe anyone who doesn't show or health test is a byb.

My summer school teacher this summer was my definition of a good breeder. She breeds Prembroke welsh corgis. She lives with her elderly father who can help. She travels around the country showing, doing agility, obedience, conformation, tracking and herding with them. She also judges many akc events. She had a litter while I was in her class and she would always talk about them, she had homes lined up for them before they were even born if one was sick she didn't even resist taking them to the vet. One morning two of her females got in a fight and she had to go to the vet before she came to school and didn't even flinch coming to school with blood and hair on her.

[Lori Jordan]

Funny, I would classify that as a puppy mill.

No it is for the money,This is how her and her husband live,Off all there animals,I have seen some of the pups,Now i cannot judge there health but from what i have seen they seem to be healthy,And all that has been told to me is it is very clean atmosphere.Now this couple are in there 60's i would say.

[ScottieMommy]

No it is for the money,This is how her and her husband live,Off all there animals,I have seen some of the pups,Now i cannot judge there health but from what i have seen they seem to be healthy,And all that has been told to me is it is very clean atmosphere.Now this couple are in there 60's i would say.


See people that age i dont think do this to hurt the animal or know they are doing wrong. They probably love their dogs as you and i do.

[cali]

to me, a good breeder is a soemoe who breeds to improve the breed. what "improve the breed" means is something else entirly lol

some would say you need to show to improve the breed, to others its the total opposite.

some would say you need to work for work to improve the breed, other say if the work is obselete then who cares.

some say that breeding soly for health and temperment is improving the breed, other disagree.

personally, I think it depends on the breed. for some breeds you need to show and work the dogs to be a good breeder; for other breeds only showing is needed; and for other breeds, showing makes for a terrable breeder, and only breeding for work can be considered a good breeder. Temperment and health should be a given for ANY breeder.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

To me, a BYB is somebody who doesn't health test, show and/or work their dogs (depending on the breed), and just generally isn't breeding to better the breed. Being in it for money is another sign as well.

[Ginger's Mom]

No it is for the money,This is how her and her husband live,Off all there animals,I have seen some of the pups,Now i cannot judge there health but from what i have seen they seem to be healthy,And all that has been told to me is it is very clean atmosphere.Now this couple are in there 60's i would say.
Exactly they breed several different breeds in order to make money. That would be what a puppy mill does. By your own words you cannot speak to the health of the pups or the cleanliness of the kennels. The worst puppy mill in PA is run by a lady that is in her late 50's; age has nothing to do with it. Whether she thinks there is anything wrong with breeding multiple litters of dogs with questionable health and breeding, doesn't really change the fact that she runs one of the worst puppy mills in PA. The proprietors health and indifference to the severity of the dog overpopulation problem does not make their puppy mill anything better or different than any other puppy mill.

[Lori Jordan]

Exactly they breed several different breeds in order to make money. That would be what a puppy mill does. By your own words you cannot speak to the health of the pups or the cleanliness of the kennels. The worst puppy mill in PA is run by a lady that is in her late 50's; age has nothing to do with it. Whether she thinks there is anything wrong with breeding multiple litters of dogs with questionable health and breeding, doesn't really change the fact that she runs one of the worst puppy mills in PA. The proprietors health and indifference to the severity of the dog overpopulation problem does not make their puppy mill anything better or different than any other puppy mill.


I am not defending any actions from this couple,I am just saying i have never heard anything bad or wrong with her dogs,It is a tough situation i wish i could take all these animals that go with out,But you and i both know it is impossible.

There are alot of things going on in this world that no one can change,As animal lovers we cannot sit here and say we are against it all,Where would or pets have come from?

[bckrazy]

Like members before me already stated, a BYB is anybody who does not breed to better the breed. Thus, anybody who does not health test their dogs, does not show their dogs either in conformation or in the field, breeds unacceptable or abnormal varieties ("Imperial Shih Tzus", parti-color poodles [AKC DQ], "Tiny Toy Chihuahuas", etc.), and anybody who breeds for money is a BYB.

Now, there are also irresponsible breeders who are every bit as bad as BYBs. Irresponsible breeders may health test their dogs, they may show every once in a while and have a couple CH's here and there. They may love their dogs dearly, but they are ignorant. I once knew a breeder who, on the outside, seemed like a reputable breeder. However, her dogs began throwing dysplastic pups. Yet, she denied any genetic link and continued to breed her dogs without a second thought.

There should only be one type of breeder: one who strives to produce puppies even better than the parents of the pups. A responsible breeder is one who produces stronger, healthier puppies truer to the standard. Any breeder who does not follow these rules is a BYB/irresponsible breeder.

HAHA. yeah, I'm lazy, and that's exactly how I feel on this topic.

IMHO, a breeder first and foremost should know every little thing about their breed, every in and out, and should have a real love and respect for them. Every admirable breeder I have met has owned their breed for years & years, and could talk about their dogs all day long. I also feel any reputable breeder should be actively involved in breed rescue, not only adding good quality dogs to the breed, but also helping to clean up after the bad breeders.

[bckrazy]

NOT everyone can afford a pet from a breeder, and some BYB'S arent as bad as others.

Calling one BYB okay, and one BYB villainous, is just kind of pointless to me. Neither should be supported, ever. Unless one's goal is to feed the huge overpopulation issue in this country. If that's the case... go for it!

For those who cannot afford a dog from a reputable breeder - rescue dogs usually cost under $100 to adopt, spayed/neutered and vaccinated. Which basically means the dogs are free, you're just paying for vetting.

I have adopted 2 dogs, both of which took amazingly little effort! I actually wanted to give them MORE personal information, and talk to them MORE than they required. If shelters are repeatedly rejecting you, you should probably consider if you have the ability to care for a dog. Seriously. D: It drives me insaaane when people whine about rescues/shelters being unfair, or not having the dog they want, or having a long process. I'm sure there are some lame rescues out there. But, you know, there are only millions of dogs to choose from in this country! If you do not want to go through a few days of screening to adopt a dog, you probably don't need to be getting into a 10-15 year commitment.

[ScottieMommy]

Calling one BYB okay, and one BYB villainous, is just kind of pointless to me. Neither should be supported, ever. Unless one's goal is to feed the huge overpopulation issue in this country. If that's the case... go for it!

For those who cannot afford a dog from a reputable breeder - rescue dogs usually cost under $100 to adopt, spayed/neutered and vaccinated. Which basically means the dogs are free, you're just paying for vetting.

I have adopted 2 dogs, both of which took amazingly little effort! I actually wanted to give them MORE personal information, and talk to them MORE than they required. If shelters are repeatedly rejecting you, you should probably consider if you have the ability to care for a dog. Seriously. D: It drives me insaaane when people whine about rescues/shelters being unfair, or not having the dog they want, or having a long process. I'm sure there are some lame rescues out there. But, you know, there are only millions of dogs to choose from in this country! If you do not want to go through a few days of screening to adopt a dog, you probably don't need to be getting into a 10-15 year commitment.



Many dog lovers have tried to adopt and just because the rent, they smoke (YES) they got rejected, and where in the world do they go for dogs? They wont circle the world looking at more shelters because some dont even adopt out if they are not in the samy city/state. Shelters are really strick and i hate it when the dog's live in on the line. Just because you rent or smoke does NOT mean you dont love dogs, and shelters should know better than to judge someone like that, is their big heart and love that counts. If they dint want the dog, they would not spend their time filling out an app and having their homes looked at (some) So where do they get their dog?

[RedyreRotties]

I prefer the term HIGH RISK BREEDER.

Anyone who does not:

Use only the highest quality of animals
Do ALL health testing and PUBLISH ALL RESULTS, normal or not
Participate in some sort of competition with their dogs
Participate in their National Breed Club
Participate in some way in Breed Rescue
Sell all animals with a written contract
Require spay/neuter of pets
Take back ANY animal at ANY time for ANY reason that they have bred, or that their stud dogs have sired
Educate new people

Is a high risk breeder to me. Breeding is serious business, and should only be entered into by those who have a certain amount of education and experience in dogs, and who has a good mentor system.

JMO as always....

[Lori Jordan]

What everyone has to remeber,The BYB are the one at fault,I know we all know it is not the animals fault and they desereve a loving home as much as an animal that is coming from a reputable breeder.

All my animals have come from Breeders,And to be honest there the ones that are always chosen,So i will never go to a breeder again,THere are so many wonderful dogs in shelters,That dont get so lucky.

But way back when i was growing up,Shelters were the thing,We never went to a breeder,We always went back to the shelter and got dogs.

All animals deserve the best,And i have now come to realization,That Puppy mills,BYB,and just morons who think breeding a dog will become rich,These animals need homes more,There is always people that will go to a breeder,Those dogs will never go withought(I pray)

[buttercup132]

um...no...my grammar is no concern of urs. But still u guys jumped my thread yesterday and i was ready to leave pt for good. you and the rest of the bashes need to stop fighting with harmless ppl who love there pets. I dont bug u about ur pets and how u raise them. if u want to get some thing done in the world about the pet population and puppy mills get out there and do something dont stay at home and sit on ur comp. im done wit u and ur bashin friends. peace out Well then I'll just take it to Karen about your spelling. Stop your whinning and feeling sorry for yourself about people saying you shouldn't breed cause it's getting annoying. I never "bashed" you in your thread either. This has nothing to do with you or your thread so get over it and stop dragging it into my thread.


Many dog lovers have tried to adopt and just because the rent, they smoke (YES) they got rejected, I have to agree in the fact that I think that is rediculous when people get rejected for stuff like that. Those shelters are too stirct and they aren't getting as many dogs adopted out.

There are always rescue all over though (like breed specific ones) that will round up people to help transport so if the shelter near you won't adopt out to you for a silly reason you can always get in contact with them.

[Nobas Mom]

I once knew a breeder who, on the outside, seemed like a reputable breeder. However, her dogs began throwing dysplastic pups. Yet, she denied any genetic link and continued to breed her dogs without a second thought.

Hubby and I are on our way out of town... finally to take care of some important and not good family stuff... but decided to check PT one last time. I fully agree with this Giselle. Noba's breeder is like this. Came across as very reputable, but then as soon as Noba was diagnosed with Hip Dysplasia at 8 months, she did a total turn around; was uncaring, denied any responsibility (tried telling me it was something I had done)... and yet continues to breed the mom and dad... hmm... byob comes to my mind...

Well everyone have a good thanksgiving, not sure when I will be back, but take care and if I can, I will check back into PT every so often!

[bckrazy]

If they dint want the dog, they would not spend their time filling out an app and having their homes looked at (some) So where do they get their dog?

I cannot begin to count the number of people I know, who were basically handed a dog from a shelter/rescue, who should NEVER have been given the responsibility of a dog's life.

I also know of zero shelters that do home checks, zero. If you rent... you should have permission from your landlord before adopting. And there is always a box to check if your rent or own, and you just write down your landlord's number. whoopideedo!

Personally, I would rather not own a dog, than resort to a BYB who doesn't even care enough to screen your home. A breeder who doesn't care about where their puppies are going, probably also doesn't give a crap about the quality of the puppies they produce. Common sense, therefore, says that those puppies are not going to be healthy.

If a shelter won't approve you, a half-way decent breeder sure as heck won't. I think the problem here is so many people in this society want what they want, right NOW. They aren't willing to look around, it's way easier to whip out a newspaper and pick up a BYB puppy with no obligations or questioning involved. I know some people who do this are actually good owners, but most of them, simply are not. They want instant results, and when that puppy won't stop peeing on the carpet or when that puppy isn't tiny & cute, it ends up in a shelter. Hence the reason that nearly 50% of puppies go through the shelter system before age 2.

[ScottieMommy]

I cannot begin to count the number of people I know, who were basically handed a dog from a shelter/rescue, who should NEVER have been given the responsibility of a dog's life.

I also know of zero shelters that do home checks, zero. If you rent... you should have permission from your landlord before adopting. And there is always a box to check if your rent or own, and you just write down your landlord's number. whoopideedo!

Personally, I would rather not own a dog, than resort to a BYB who doesn't even care enough to screen your home. A breeder who doesn't care about where their puppies are going, probably also doesn't give a crap about the quality of the puppies they produce. Common sense, therefore, says that those puppies are not going to be healthy.

If a shelter won't approve you, a half-way decent breeder sure as heck won't. I think the problem here is so many people in this society want what they want, right NOW. They aren't willing to look around, it's way easier to whip out a newspaper and pick up a BYB puppy with no obligations or questioning involved. I know some people who do this are actually good owners, but most of them, simply are not. They want instant results, and when that puppy won't stop peeing on the carpet or when that puppy isn't tiny & cute, it ends up in a shelter. Hence the reason that nearly 50% of puppies go through the shelter system before age 2.


If you actually lived in the city i live you would know how shelters will reject you. And NOT only me but i have asked million of people who could NOT adopt. And NO if i want a dog i have the right to get a dog actually. I wont just NOT get one because the shelter rejected me, thats wrong. There are MANY people out there like the "Beagle lady" i would get a dog from instead of NOT having one. Everyone deserves the love from a wonderful companion, just because you cant adopt does not mean you stop there.

[bckrazy]

What if that BYB puppy ends up with parvo? Or with a genetic health issue, like hip dysplasia, before they're even 1 year old? You have no contract to guarantee your puppy's health. You have nothing. You're going to be shelling out $1000's, instead of paying the extra few hundred dollars for a well-bred puppy. I know starving college kids who saved up to buy from a reputable breeder, for over a year. It isn't impossible, for pretty much anyone.

You have talked to millions of people? Wow. That's pretty intense.

I'm not saying you cannot support a BYB. You can do whatever you want to do. But, I would rather be dog-less than giving money to people who are responsible for the deaths of millions of dogs, and that's just me.

And, I completely disagree with your last statement. NOT everyone deserves the love of a dog... because NOT everyone has the time/commitment/money/responsibility to own a dog. Which is exactly why shelters and rescues try to screen homes as best they can; they don't want to get that dog back in 6 months, and repeat the cycle. It is not fair, to the dogs.

[dukedogsmom]

My definition is my ex SIL (thank goodness). She's got two small dogs of different breeds. Refuses to spay or neuter either. Lets them breed and sells them, of course. Because it's all about the money. Made me sick when I had to go over there and see those puppies. She has been through so many animals. Oh, a long time ago, she was breeding some cats with no tails in a spare bedroom. She let a few of them die. I was uneducated back then but it still made me sick.

[ScottieMommy]

What if that BYB puppy ends up with parvo? Or with a genetic health issue, like hip dysplasia, before they're even 1 year old? You have no contract to guarantee your puppy's health. You have nothing. You're going to be shelling out $1000's, instead of paying the extra few hundred dollars for a well-bred puppy. I know starving college kids who saved up to buy from a reputable breeder, for over a year. It isn't impossible, for pretty much anyone.

You have talked to millions of people? Wow. That's pretty intense.

I'm not saying you cannot support a BYB. You can do whatever you want to do. But, I would rather be dog-less than giving money to people who are responsible for the deaths of millions of dogs, and that's just me.

And, I completely disagree with your last statement. NOT everyone deserves the love of a dog... because NOT everyone has the time/commitment/money/responsibility to own a dog. Which is exactly why shelters and rescues try to screen homes as best they can; they don't want to get that dog back in 6 months, and repeat the cycle. It is not fair, to the dogs.


Is a figure of speech when i said millions, geesh. And YES everyone looking for a dog deserves to have one. And how about if the puppy does not endup with parvo? Huh? Is more than a 50% she/he wont, and will live a healthy life, thats if you know how to pick. I would of bought a Beagle puppy from the lady i talked about with my eyes closed, no doubt about it. You need to know how to pick, some people loved their animals some dont, period.

[bckrazy]

Is a figure of speech when i said millions, geesh. And YES everyone looking for a dog deserves to have one. And how about if the puppy does not endup with parvo? Huh? Is more than a 50% she/he wont, and will live a healthy life, thats if you know how to pick. I would of bought a Beagle puppy from the lady i talked about with my eyes closed, no doubt about it. You need to know how to pick, some people loved their animals some dont, period.

uhhhh. I don't even know what to say to most of that.

Where did you get your 50% statistic? And, do you know the early, early signs of Parvo? Or the signs of a puppy that is destined to suffer from genetic health issues? There aren't any, to speak of. You are taking a complete crapshoot, and if that's your thing, I can't stop you.

[ScottieMommy]

uhhhh. I don't even know what to say to most of that.

Where did you get your 50% statistic? And, do you know the early, early signs of Parvo? Or the signs of a puppy that is destined to suffer from genetic health issues? There aren't any, to speak of. You are taking a complete crapshoot, and if that's your thing, I can't stop you.


Yupp well.. umm bye i am leaving this thread. Is pointless you have your opinion i have mine.

[Giselle]

NOT everybody deserves a dog. How do we know the adopter has enough time for a dog? How do we know they are financially able to care for the dog? How do we know they are physically capable of caring for that dog? How do we know they aren't acting on impulse?? Screening and homechecks are put in place to ensure that every dog we adopt out is placed into a FOREVER home. Have you ever had a bounce back? Do you understand how heart-wrenching and how unfair it is for the dog to adopt it out and have it returned several months later because the family "doesn't have enough time"??

FYI, I was rejected the first time I tried to adopt a greyhound. I did a little research and I found out that this particular rescue was very bigoted. I tried another rescue (thank goodness) and ended up with Giselle. I wanted a dog, not instant gratification. I reassessed my own situation, considered why I was rejected, spoke with other greyhound owners, and decided that I should try again. Rejections happen. Some are legitimate. Some are not. Your responsibility as a dog owner is to reassess yourself, your lifestyle, and whether or not you really are capable of caring for a dog in your current situation. A dog is a living being. If this all seems a bit much, well, it has to be when you're dealing with adopting out living, breathing, feeling creatures.

[Lori Jordan]

http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-pets-dogs-puppies-for-sale-Aussie-Poo-W0QQAdIdZ28965276


And i wonder why there is only 1 pup,Very odd for the Aussie and Poodle Breed to only produce one pup..