Advice request: can a dog be made more playful?

[AmberLee]

Hi, many of you here don't know me, I usually post in Cat General. I have a question on behalf of my parents (Mom's in her early 70s, Dad's in his early 80s) and their dog -- an adorable black and white Border Collie, named Mickie. We got Mickie from a shelter about a year ago, she is now a little over 2 years old. At first we were more caught up in the recognition that she had been abused before she came into our homes. She's a lot more secure now, and belatedly we've noticed that she doesn't play. She will patiently watch as we roll balls past her and looks quizzically at us as we dangle doggie toys in front of her... delicately pushes them out of her bed if we force them upon her. Is this normal for a Border Collie? Or for formerly abused dogs? She is a quiet, loveable, patient dog. Do dogs NEED to play?

She seems happy enough otherwise, and we love to go for walks with her, but are concerned she's missing fun from her life. What can we do to make her more playful or is this an unreasonable goal now?

PS -- she seems puzzled by my cats, but they coexist pleasantly. Could they be inhibiting her?

[Chilli]

Honestly, I don't have an answer for your question. I'm just eager to hear answers.

Ethan, one of our dogs, sounds alot like Miss Mickie. He came from an abusive home. We've had him for 2(maybe 3?) years now, and I've never seen him truely play. He's picked up a toy everynow and then, but the only time he does it is to keep it away from the other dogs...
I've tried numerous times, and I still try, to get him to play with toys. He doesn't seem amused at all and just lays on his dog bed, trying his best to annoying the pesky human. =D
He would much rather lay around and sleep than to play around.

Who knows? Maybe its because he never learned that it was okay to play when he was little because he was in abusive care. Or it might be because he never had toys to play with when he was a puppy.

Anyhow, I'm eager to hear other views on this subject! :)

[caseysmom]

My casey is not very playful but Bubba has brought her out of her shell, she gets playful at the dog park too but other than that she is pretty happy to just sit around, she has sort of spoiled me for mellow dogs, your parents should feel blessed. :D

[Freedom]

You can improve her outlook regarding play. The easiest way is to have another dog around her doing those things.

The rescue or which I foster pulls dogs from puppy mills. These dogs are up to 8 years old and haven't a clue how to act, or react, in normal "doggie" situations. The rescue requires that anyone fostering one of the puppy mill dogs already have a socialized dog in the home. the rescue dog will emulate the behaviour about him or her.

Maybe a play group, doggie day care, or a dog park will help her to see what dogs do with toys. Or you can get down and demonstrate! :D

[anna_66]

I wouldn't necessarily say dogs 'need' to play...Huney doesn't. She's more happy to be out of the way of the play and has never played with toys at all.
We've tried and she just doesn't seem to care for them.

Now every once in a while if Bon and Roxey are running around and playing in the yard she'll run after them for a few seconds, then turn and walk away :confused: Guess she only needs a few seconds of play;)

I think if she's happy that's all that counts:D

[cali]

this is in no way typcial of BCs, but if she is happy otherwise, then I see no reason to push it. some of my dogs love to play, some just aint interested, but that doesnt make their lives any less fufilled :)

[AmberLee]

Thank you all for your insights.

Mickie does seem to be a happy girl these days, and we have congratulated ourselves on what a sweet, happy, friendly girl we share our home with. And, as we are not the youngest folks around, we are also pleased that she has a quiet disposition. I tease sometimes that she's a reincarnated cat: she sleeps about 14 hours a day, enjoys napping with any of us indulging ourselves, and is very happy to sit beside any of us and getting scritchies.

There are few dogs in our immediate circle of friends: I'll have to think about ways to arrange play dates for our sweet girl. And, of course, we'll continue to demonstrate doggie toys for her. :)

[shais_mom]

absolutely - but it also depends on the dog.
BC's are very intelligent so I'm sure she'd pick it up.
you might try emailing a greyhound rescue group or finding a greyhound board. The dogs that come off the track are so used to being in cage and not used to toys (and many many other things) it just takes patience and persistence.

[3muttsandaboston]

My dog Gracie is just like that. She doesn't play and probably never will. She will however steal one of Lucy's toys just to spite her. lol She was also and abused shelter rescue and is very timid. Perhaps you could do some agility with her or just some training just to keep her mind active and happy?

[Giselle]

Most greys don't play with toys, in my experience. When they're excited and they're doing their "Oh-my-gosh-Mom-is-home!" dance, they'll maybe pick up a few toys and toss them in the air. But after a few minutes, they'll pass out on the couch.

So, no, some dogs just don't play and it's just another aspect of what makes our dogs such unique individuals. However, BCs are, on the whole, very intelligent and active creatures. To be honest, it concerns me to hear a 2-year-old BC sleeping 14 hours a day. Is she totally healthy (how's her weight)? Also, how are you getting her to play? Since watching first-time dog owners trying to elicit play with their dogs, I've come to realize what a language barrier there is between us and the canines :p

[AmberLee]

... So, no, some dogs just don't play and it's just another aspect of what makes our dogs such unique individuals. However, BCs are, on the whole, very intelligent and active creatures. To be honest, it concerns me to hear a 2-year-old BC sleeping 14 hours a day. Is she totally healthy (how's her weight)? Also, how are you getting her to play? Since watching first-time dog owners trying to elicit play with their dogs, I've come to realize what a language barrier there is between us and the canines :p

>However, BCs are, on the whole, very intelligent and active creatures.
She does seem bright, although I can't think of an example at the moment.

>To be honest, it concerns me to hear a 2-year-old BC sleeping 14 hours a day. Is she totally healthy (how's her weight)?
We were worried at first, but her vet says she's fine. When WE are healthy and take her walking daily (1 - 3 miles/day) her body shape is svelte. When we get sick and don't walk as much she tubs up a bit and gets tired when we first start up walking again. (Usually we restart our walking program at ~ 1/4 to 1/2 a mile and build up day by day.)

Right now I'm still recuperating from bronchitis and she's at the tubby end of her range. Healthy, she's about 45 pounds. I'm guessing she's 48 pounds or so now?


>Also, how are you getting her to play? Since watching first-time dog owners trying to elicit play with their dogs, I've come to realize what a language barrier there is between us and the canines.

We've bought her some toys and balls. We usually display them for her/waggle them to get her attention. Place them in procemity to her. Sometimes toss them for her (and eventually got to retrieving them when she ignored them). Recently my mother (the person who seems to be the axis on whom Mickie's world revolves), my niece (her favorite teenager in the world) and I (she's very fond of me) have tried tossing or rolling a ball from one to another and encouraging her to join us. She seems fascinated, but baffled. Can you suggest more effective ways of introducing play to her? I'm fairly new to dogs. Typically the family dogs doted on our dad, and he rather monopolized their time. Uh, not in a mean way, it just worked out that way.

***
We've found squeaking squeeky toys for her just scares her. :eek: :(

[Danegirl2208]

Maybe they haven't shown her a toy she really likes...try introducing her to a variety of toys. Tennis balls, stuffies, rope toys ect., i'm sure you will find something she enjoys.

But with that said..Some dogs just don't like toys..my rainbow bridge boy wouldn't and didn't touch a toy the 9 years I had him.

[AmberLee]

...Tennis balls, stuffies, rope toys ect., i'm sure you will find something she enjoys. ...


Hmmm, we've mainly tried balls, tennis balls, and squeaky toys. I don't think we've tried stuffies or rope toys. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Glacier]

Play is learned behavior. If she didn't learn to play from her littermates and Mom, it, like all other behaviors, is harder to pick up later!

I have several dogs who were working sled dogs from the time they were young puppies. None of them knew how to play when they arrived here. Most of them have figured it out over a number of years, but none of them ever seem to fully understand the joys of Husky wrestling. They prefer the calmer, more solitary games!

She sounds like a lovely companion! I bet, if she is eager to please you, she would excel at something like agility or Rally obedience.

[AmberLee]

... She sounds like a lovely companion! I bet, if she is eager to please you, she would excel at something like agility or Rally obedience.


Yes, we think we are VERY lucky to have her. She fits into our quiet lifestyle so beautifully.

Ummm, sorry to ask a majorly basic question, but if I were to start attempting to train her in agility, where is the best place to start? As she is 2 years and a month or two old... is this too late to start?

[Glacier]

Ummm, sorry to ask a majorly basic question, but if I were to start attempting to train her in agility, where is the best place to start? As she is 2 years and a month or two old... is this too late to start?

Not too late at all. She's a young border collie--she'll probably be anxious to learn! I'm thinking of doing agility with Tehya next summer, when she's about the same age. Call a dog trainer in your area or the humane society. They will probably know how to reach the local agility club.

[Giselle]

In agility, we can condition non-toy-motivated dogs to enjoy play by using "Tug-N-Treats (http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=596&AFF=41381) ". Basically, it's a fleece pocket with a nylon handle. You stuff the tug-n-treats with food, and every time the dog shows interest in the toy, you treat the dog. The best time to initiate play is right when you come back home because, generally, that's when the dog is most energetic and most willing to spend time with you. Give the toy to the dog, let her mouth it, and pull it back. Pat her on the butt with it, get rowdy, act like a fool. Play with her body and continually offer her a toy but always take it back. When you give dogs a toy and quickly whip it away, they tend to bite at it out of instinct. Eventually, you can teach the dog to play, but you have to initiate it in a way that makes sense to dogs. Patting your thighs and staring in the eyes, for example, won't entice a shy dog. Scratching their bum, sprinting away, giving/taking away the toy, sprinting away, etc. will entice a dog.

Also, definitely try stuffies. Giselle has only played a handful of times and they've all been with stuffies. She couldn't care less for tennis balls :)

ETA: OH, you're in Stockton!!! If you want to learn about agility, please PM me, and visit Bay Team's website: bayteam.org <---AKA the bay area agility lover's heaven :D

[3muttsandaboston]

2 is just the right age. Her bones have now stopped growing and she is less likely to get injured. I'm going to start with Lucy pretty soon she is about 1 1/2 years. Not sure on how to help you find somewhere to train. You could just do some training in the back yard with homemade obsticles. A google search might help you with what you need.

[Giselle]

Okay, because I'm such an agility nut....

How far away are you from Brentwood? My instructor also teaches at a facility in Brentwood, and I can PM you the details if you want :) Most BayTeam trainers are in the SF area so I can't personally think of or recommend a local trainer in the Stockton area.

[AmberLee]

Okay, because I'm such an agility nut....

How far away are you from Brentwood? My instructor also teaches at a facility in Brentwood, and I can PM you the details if you want :) Most BayTeam trainers are in the SF area so I can't personally think of or recommend a local trainer in the Stockton area.

Hmmm, I'm not sure. Let me go check.

[AmberLee]

Well, spppffft. My computer's "hiccuping" when I try to use the details on my mapping feature, but it looks like I'm a little over an hour's drive from Brentwood. I guess this sounds wimpy, but I'm really reluctant about the idea of adding this to my schedule right now. I think I'll look for some local training, instead. Also see if I can find an agility event to show mom what it's all about and see if she's open to Mickie getting this training. (Since she probably won't be too excited about my running off with her dog on a regular basis for some mysterious outings. :rolleyes: :p :eek: )

[bckrazy]

I agree with Giselle... Border Collies are definitely intended to be high energy, active, and driven to work. But, there are always extremes in every breed, and just like there are some BCs who are always going non-stop, there are also mellow BCs.

Definitely work on getting her into good shape, even if she isn't interested in playing. It's much *healthier* for her to get a good amount of vigorous exercise each day... it might require some coaxing, as it sounds like she isn't very play-driven.

Obedience work is reallyyy good mental, and even physical, exercise! Work up to looong down-waits, from a long distance, so she is running to you for each recall. Is there any dog-friendly places to swim in your area? Or any nice off-leash parks or trails? There are lots of exercise options for dogs that aren't into fetching or toys. If nothing else... I live in Sacramento, and my boys would be happy to play with her! ;D

[Canis-Lupess]

No it's not too late at all. She's still a young dog really. No reason why she can't learn. A dog can't start learning agility until it is fully grown anyway because jumping and such is bad for growing bones and joints. A a BC, 9 months is usual age they have to reach before they start agility training. One of our former dogs, Monty, didn't start learning agility until he was about 2 and he did perfectly fine.

As for the weight fluctuations, I would seriously try not to let that happen. Weight going up and down all the time is quite stressful for the body, whether it be humans or dogs. If she isn't getting as much exercise as usual for whatever reason, her food intake needs to be lessened a little.
She weighs about the same as my BC who is now 13 coming up for 14. She filled out slightly as she got older as does happen with most dogs as with people...going up a few pounds and just looking a little more solid and shapely. She used to weigh less as a young dog but she was naturally more lanky then.

I agree that dogs who weren't introduced to the concept of play as youngsters might have a harder time taking it up when they are older. If there is anything she does enjoy, try incorporating a ball or other toy into it. Lots of exciting vibes from you will help to pursuade her. Even if she tries a half hearted attempt, be very pleased and show it and she'll soon learn that it is great and want to do it more and start putting more enthusiasm into it.
Don't automatically expect miracles though because all dogs are individuals...even BCs. We've had quite a number of BCs and they all have their own personalities. Our Jess and Mist who were mother and daughter were actually like chalk and cheese. Very different dogs. Some dogs might take the play concept on board and others might not...regardless of breed.

I must admit that mine were never the biggest players. They were more often likely to play with a toy when I was around either to get attention or because I was playing with them. They wouldn't play with each other when I was around. They'd only do it when they thought they were alone and if I wanted to watch, I'd have to do it secretly. Peeping around the curtain and they'd keep stopping and looking at the house and the windows and if they saw me looking out, they'd stop.
They did like playing fetch though and would do that until they dropped. Our Jess still does but I only through the ball a couple of yards now and only about 4 or 4 times with rest inbetween because running back and fourth won't be good for her old creaky joints now.

[Giselle]

Wait, where are you in Stockton? From downtown Stockton to downtown Brentwood is about 30-40 minutes. Not bad, really. I drive about 35 minutes to our agility classes. I can PM you the facility's address if you want.

Also, if your pup looks pretty much purebred, it wouldn't hurt to join a local AKC obedience/agility club. I think there are some out your way.

For some upcoming agility events in Nor Cal:
20, 21 OCTOBER 2007
AKC Trial - Pleasanton, California
Del Valle Dog Club of Livermore
Pleasanton Fairgrounds (4501 Pleasanton Ave.) - Outdoors on grass

20, 21 OCTOBER 2007
USDAA Test - Madera, California
Canine Agility Team
Madera Fairgrounds (1850 W. Cleveland Ave.)

20, 21 OCTOBER 2007 (this one is closest to you)
CPE Trial - Elk Grove, California
Fun Paws Agility Club
WAG K9 Facilities (10925 Bruceville Road)

21 OCTOBER 2007
Run Throughs - Penngrove, California
Paws-to-Play Agility (501 Ronsheimer Road)

27, 28 OCTOBER 2007
AKC Trial - Placerville, California
Hangtown Kennel Club
El Dorado County Fairgrounds (100 Placerville Dr.)

27, 28 OCTOBER 2007
Howl-a-ween Fun Weekend Fun Match - Elk Grove, California
WAG
WAG K9 Facilities (10925 Bruceville Road)

For a complete list: http://slipstreamaussies.com/calendar/

[AmberLee]

Thank you. I've bookmarked the page, this weekend was tied up between class and work (me) and a 5K walk for Breast Cancer awareness (my mom). There are several upcoming events that might help me get mom interested. Right now she seems rather negative about it... and Mickie is her dog. :rolleyes: :confused: :o