ugh - horse help!

[JuniorxMyxLove]

So I had to switch to ride on Fridayinstead of tuesday last week. But anyways, Junior was getting his feet done then, so I couldn't ride him. Instead I rode this brat named Casper. He's privately owned. His owner is NOT a good match for him at all. She lets him get away with biting, so now I've got this big welt on my arm from a bite. Plus, she never kicks or smacks him with the crop (even though she really needs to, he's so lazy!) Anyways, I had to ride him. I saddled him up with no problem. Bridled (is that a word?) him. No problem. Then he bit me as I was grabbing a crop before I mounted. He is so inconsistent with the speed of his trot. He was slow, so I gave him a little kick. Nothing. I kicked him a little harder, he sped up a little. So I smacked him lightly, again, almost no response. I was getting annoyed with him, so I smacked him and kicked at the same time lol. he shot forward so fast I almost tumbled off him backwards lmao! Then, when we cantered, things went from bad to...more bad. When his owner, Tammy, rides him, his canter almost has 4 beats instead of 3. They're so uncoordinated. I got him moving faster and smoother, but then he kept dropping his head and I was getting thrown all off balance. I was so glad when we were walking again. It was even worse cantering the other direction! He bucked, I landed on his neck, he bucked again, I almost went flying off. Somehow I managed to get myself back in the saddle. And then he wouldn't stop. I was so scared! Haha I lost a stirrup, and while we were trotting around, I was trying to get it back, but for some reason I was still posting lmao. And his jump....SO wierd. He ALWAYS chips in to get really close to the jump, no matter what I do, and he barely lifts his front end but like pushes really hard with his hind end. The first few jumps I landed like on his neck before I was used to it. Yeah I was SOO glad when that lesson was over. But for some reason, I really want to ride him again. idk why. But i do. lol.
any help on how to get him to stopthis...if I ride him again?

Casper is very cute though :] I got a few pictures after the lesson, when I was walking him around outside:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/xxOHFxx/casperandMEEE2.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/xxOHFxx/casperandMEEE1.jpg

oh! and for those who still remember me talking about Barney...his owner switched him to a double bridle. he doesn't run away anymore. yeah his owner is still at college though...

[Addie]

he really is a lovely horse! As for biting, does he try to bite at your feet when your riding? Victor does that to me and I just have to pull harder on the reins to get him to focus on riding and keep his mind occupied. If he's not responding like you want just keep at it...he seems like he's trying to outsmart you (trust me...if you keep asking him for a consistent trot he'll finally give in. Victor tries to do this to me all the time).

Good luck with Casper though!

[JuniorxMyxLove]

uhm no, he doesn't really bite my feet. He snapped at them once when I was tightening the girth after I got on.

thankfully I haven't ridden him since, but I might have to ride on friday again and that means I might have to ride him...:\

[The_Duck]

I've never rode English before, so I'm not sure what all is supposed to be different, but the number one thing is just be consistant with him. Just keep asking and don't let your frustrations rule. If you get too rough, it will be more of a hinderance than a help. Just remember to breathe. If you're nervous, he's going to pick up on that. If he starts cantering and won't stop, try an emergancy stop. Just grab a rein and pull his nose right around to your boot. You can't let him keep going or he'll walk all over you. You might een need to consider trying a harsher bit until he learns to mind. As for jumping... I can't help you at all there. I'm too chicken to try something like that. If you do ride him again, I wish you luck. And, yes, he's quite cute. :D

[critter crazy]

The problem of him not being your horse, makes it very difficult for you to get him out of bad habits, if his owner lets him get away with everything.

He sure is cute tho.

[JuniorxMyxLove]

yeah. i wish i could ride him more..with a harsher bit...and basically attack him until he listened lol

the problem with the emergency stop...i can barely get him to turn his head! His neck is so big..and strong! I can't turn him easily! oh well. hopefully the farrier won't be working on juniors feet when/if i ride on friday and I can ride him. :\

[Miss Z]

OK, I'll try to give you some advice, but it might be long though, lol. http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/wink.gif

I'll start off with the biting. You say he bit you before you mounted. The problem could lie there. Perhaps in his past, he has had experience of rough handling when being mounted, and he is reacting instinctively when he believes pain is about to be caused to him. You say you 'grabbed' a whip, perhaps this movement just shocked him. I would always approach him very quietly, and move slowly around him. Before you mount, take hold of the reins just below his mouth, where he can't bite you, but allow him movement in his head rather than a rigid hold. With your other hand, gently rub his neck and ears if he allows you to touch them. This will have a calming effect on him and will reassure him that you are not here to cause pain to him. Perhaps also check that he has a correctly fitting bit, biting and snatching at the reins can be signs that he is finding it uncomforable in his mouth.

The trot next. I know exactly what you mean about inconsistant trots being annoying. But, in the long run, it will make you a much better rider, and you will thank Casper for it.

Ok, evidently, kicking him doesn't have an effect. What you must never do whilst riding is to be constantly kicking with no effect, as this teaches bad manners. After three kicks, with no reponse, that's the time to use the whip. He needs a firm slap behind the girth (never on the hindquarters) to show him that you are confident and in charge. If he messes you about, you do it again. Now as you say he shot off, he responds to this, but not leg. This, to me, seems like a balance problem, as he's not prepared to respond to equal pressure on his sides, but a sharp touch on one side sets him going.

What you need to do is get a firm contact with him. Get your reins short, and I mean short. He'll fight you, but if he messes you around, he needs a sharp dig in the ribs, and use your voice too, this is surprisingly effective with horses. Once you're satisfiesd that they're short, sit back on your seat bones, take a good feel down the reins, and then gently squeeze with your heels. First time, you'll probably have no effect. But what you are trying to do is get him on the bit. This is the secret to good paces. When a horse is on the bit, they accept the rider's contact, balance more easily, and collect themselves in their back and strides. This offers a rider a more consistent pace, which feels like it's going somewhere without being tense, as if the horse is going to spook any minute.

Some horses are more natural at working on the bit than others, but it is possible with nearly all horses. I often ride a mare who has an overdeveloped neck muscle on one side, so she has terrible balance issues. Getting her on the bit is very hard work and can be very tedious at times. You'll probably find this too. Whatever you do though, don't be tempted to just keep shortening, as then he'll just pull you back, and he's going to win if that happens. What often helps is 10m circle work. Do you exercise in a 60x20m school? If so, try riding 10m circles at H, then M, then B, then F, and keep going all the way around. Be as picky as you can. If you weren't happy with even the tiniest aspect of the circle (eg he slowed on the turn, or it was a bit square) then do it again straight away until it's right. A horse has to listen to his rider when he turns on such tight circles or he'll be in a mess. The more you do this, the quicker you'll find he responds to you. If you're feeling bold, tie your reins in a knot, hold onto the pommel and do the same exercise purely with your legs. It'll help you to not rely on your reins and him to listen for your leg aids.

If you're ever doing any work in the school, and you see him drop his head and arch his neck a little, even if it's just for a second, give him a good pat and make a fuss of him! He'll soon learn that it's in fact far easier for him to accept your contact and free up his neck and back a little.

Right, onto the canter. Now I know this sounds weird, but uncomfy canters are better to sit to! http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/tongue.gif The bouncier a canter, the more you feel the rhythm, and it will show you how to sit with the horse. I think the problem with his canter could lie in his trot. A bad trot makes a bad canter. Once you have achieved more collection and impulsion in the trot, you'll find the canter transition much easier, and he should fall into a better rhythm with his hindquarters powering him, rather than his forelegs dragging him.

He could also have bad balance, much like the mare I often ride. She finds it hard to keep on the correct canter lead, and often does flying changes ofher own accord whilst going around corners. This can be corrected with the rider's help. Do you know which one of your legs is stronger? Every rider, even if they don't know it, has a stronger leg. Your horse knows it, though. Many of us will accidently put more weight down one leg, especially when cantering. Personally, my right leg is stronger (my dad's footballing leg, lol), so I often tend to lean inwards on the right rein. You need to make sure that you are sat up straight with weight equally spread about your body, and that your reins are the same length, too.

With the bucking, it's a good thing to have a buck in a canter transition! No, I'm not joking. I ride another mare who does the same thing. As soon as they buck, get your leg on and send them forward. I mean, they've just freed up their back end, so they will now have no problem offering you a forward canter. If they have enough energy to buck, then they have enough energy to get going! Use anything niggly such as bucking to your advantage, and you will get results.

And finally, I'll try to help on the jumping, even though I'm a dressage rider and don't jump too often. Lots of horses are 'rushers' and it sounds like Casper is one of them. They see the jump and forget to listen to the rider and just go for it. This can be rather dangerous, as if the jump was large, and solid, it could result in the horse falling. This needs to be sorted out.

I would practice riding him in walk towards a small crosspole. He will try to speed up as he sees the jump, but keep doing the collection exercises I mentioned earlier to keep him listening to you. Halt him in front of the jump, as close as you can get. If he fights, turn him away and do it again until he stands still. You can then move it up a gear to approaching in trot and turning away (if you don't fancy a trot-halt transition), and then in canter. Approach the fence from different sides randomly so you have to keep him guessing, and this way he learns that sometimes you may not want him to take over and do what he likes over a jump.

When you do ask him to jump it, don't bang your leg on. Keep the rhythm you've achieved, which should be easier now, as he won't be expecting to jump it. If you find he does speed up, try a half-halt, and point your soles towards the fence, resisting the forward movement with your seat. You should achieve a better jump, with more forward feel and him getting his hocks underneath him when he jumps.

Hopefully you should get him to use the correct number of strides before a fence. I presume that you can 'see a stride', something which I have never been particularly great at (which is probably why I turned to dressage, lol), and then you should have little problem. A good approach is key to a good jump.

I don't believe in stronger bits or constant nagging at horses to achieve a result. I think you must always work for a result rather than relying on a piece of equipment, and with a positive mental attitude, and quick wit, you can do so. Nagging does them no good, you've got to be there mentally, rather than physically, to say, 'Well, if you're not going to work with me, then we'll do what you want to, only I'm going to make it harder'. It's about being one step ahead. It's the humane way to teach horses obedience, rather than fitting them in gags and lashing them with whips. That's my outlook on it anyway. I've got far more results from a tough horse in a snaffle than I ever did an obedient one in a double.

Well, that took me a long time to type, so I hope it helps!

[JuniorxMyxLove]

wow haha that took me...7 minutes to read. I wish I could do half the stuff you told me to, but I would only ride him in a lesson, and then my trainer is telling me what to do.
Casper wasn't scared. I wasn't sudden or anything when I took the crop, it was when I turned back around and was reaching for is eins again that he snapped at me.
He didn't buck as we were going into the canter...it was when we were cantering.
Yeah I can see a stride, but with him, he never EVER gets the correct amount of steps. In a 6 stride line, with his owner riding, he'll get 7 or 8 steps. When I rode him, I managed 6 one time.
There's a big chance I will be riding on friday this week...and I'm really worried about having to ride him.
I don't like the big mean bits either. I know one horse who seriously needed one though. His owner is at college, so he's been used as a school horse, and with every single rider who rode him, he ran away at the canter. My trainer got on him (when I rode him) and worked with him a bit, but he still ran away with the students. Now he just bucks, but i prefer that much more to him running away.

Thanks a lot! And I'm really hoping I never have to ride Casper. I'd rather ride IO, the spazziest horse EVER.

[Miss Z]

wow haha that took me...7 minutes to read. I wish I could do half the stuff you told me to, but I would only ride him in a lesson, and then my trainer is telling me what to do.
Casper wasn't scared. I wasn't sudden or anything when I took the crop, it was when I turned back around and was reaching for is eins again that he snapped at me.
He didn't buck as we were going into the canter...it was when we were cantering.
Yeah I can see a stride, but with him, he never EVER gets the correct amount of steps. In a 6 stride line, with his owner riding, he'll get 7 or 8 steps. When I rode him, I managed 6 one time.
There's a big chance I will be riding on friday this week...and I'm really worried about having to ride him.
I don't like the big mean bits either. I know one horse who seriously needed one though. His owner is at college, so he's been used as a school horse, and with every single rider who rode him, he ran away at the canter. My trainer got on him (when I rode him) and worked with him a bit, but he still ran away with the students. Now he just bucks, but i prefer that much more to him running away.

Thanks a lot! And I'm really hoping I never have to ride Casper. I'd rather ride IO, the spazziest horse EVER.

Glad I could help a little. http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/wink.gif So, does your instructor not allow you to do your own thing sometimes? I have a great instructor who will have a general lesson plan, but if I ever want to work on something then she'll incorporate it into the schedule and help me with what I feel needs improvement. You, as the rider, after all, are the one who is feeling what is going on so sometimes it's good to help your instructor out a little, lol. They can't always spot everything from the ground. Maybe just have a chat with her and see what you can do. http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/smile.gif

I also thought that maybe add a little lateral work into the lesson, like instead of changing the rein K to M, say, use a 180 degree turn on the forehand instead (that is if you know how to do it, of course). Also down the long side ride a shallow loop or do some leg yield every now and again just to keep the horse occupied and interested. Watch their ears, the inside ear should flick back and forth if they are listening to you.

My greatest piece of advice is never say never. Riding difficult horses teaches you a lot. I used to often get confidence lapses and wanted to stay on the easier mounts all the time, but since I've learnt dressage, I feel like I can control horses the right way now.

I think that now I would be bored if I sat on the horses I used to ride a lot because they don't challenge me. Sometimes I want the horse to throw in a buck or rear or mess around a little just so it gets the adrenaline pumping, and I can put everything I've learnt into practice. It's a good feeling when it seems like you're teaching the horse instead of them teaching you. I've recently started to ride a newly broken five-year-old thoroughbred gelding, who has SO much to learn and gets very nervous and skittish (and has thrown sooo many people off in the past, but, as yet, has yet to throw me *touch wood*), but I just love him because you can connect with him easily as he is very reliant on his rider to tell him it's OK. I think Casper could be like this too if some of his behaviour issues are sorted out.

What height did you jump with Casper? I was just wondering as with his stride issues it would be best to take him over jumps under 1m metre for now. But then again, the highest I have ever jumped was 1.4m, so maybe I'm not the best person to give advice on jumping. http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/wink.gif

Whatever happens with your riding anyway, good luck!

[JuniorxMyxLove]

The jumps were like 2 feet. At the most.

I know how to do the 180 turn thing. We used to practice those a lot, but Junior doesn't know how to do them, so we don't really anymore.

We basically do whatever we want at the trot, but after that, its very structured on the cantering and jumping. Could my riding have something to do with these problems? I have a short (very very short) clip of me riding Joey at the canter a few weeks ago, maybe it'll help? I had no stirrups..first time in a long time. I will be getting a few more videos up later today, but thats the one I have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvRE8Maa9HA

What is leg yielding?
The thing is, Caspers' owner lets him get away with anything, so if I did ride him more, everything I would be doing with him would be ruined again when his owner rode him

I still might ride on friday, I have a lesson i've got to make up.

[Kalei]

What a beautiful horse Casper is, lookes like Arabian? If the horse has got Arabian in him then that could be one reason why he's so hotwired lol. Then again you also said he was lazy too lol. I think he is gorgeous, I don't ride english either, but it sounds to me like it would take alot of time and patients to train this horse away from the bad habits it already has. The whole problem lies with his owner letting him get away with all this stuff.

Who knows if you could ride him enough maybe you could rid him of those bad habits.

[Miss Z]

The jumps were like 2 feet. At the most.

I know how to do the 180 turn thing. We used to practice those a lot, but Junior doesn't know how to do them, so we don't really anymore.

We basically do whatever we want at the trot, but after that, its very structured on the cantering and jumping. Could my riding have something to do with these problems? I have a short (very very short) clip of me riding Joey at the canter a few weeks ago, maybe it'll help? I had no stirrups..first time in a long time. I will be getting a few more videos up later today, but thats the one I have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvRE8Maa9HA

What is leg yielding?
The thing is, Caspers' owner lets him get away with anything, so if I did ride him more, everything I would be doing with him would be ruined again when his owner rode him

I still might ride on friday, I have a lesson i've got to make up.

Perhaps you call leg-yielding something different over there? It's a simpler version of half-pass. It's easiest ridden down the three quarter line back to the track. You get yourself on a good straight line first, then push the horse over with your inside leg. The result is the horse's legs cross and he moves sideways and forwards at the same time. His entire body should reach the track at the same time, not his nose or his backside, as some horses try to do. :p

LOL, I was so confused when I loaded that video, I thought, ummm...that's a dog...:D

Well it looks pretty good to me, the only thing I would say is that the canter is a bit flat and his hindquarters don't look as if they're pushing him forward that much. He has a nice rhythm and you have a good seat, but he doesn't really look like he's trying for you. But then considering you had no stirrups, I understand that you may have asked for a smoother canter.

I couldn't make it out entirely from the video, but perhaps carrying your hands a bit more and taking up a firmer contact would encourage a lighter and more forward canter.

I know how frustrating it is when other people ride the same horse badly, I'm in the same boat when I go riding. One time, the woman on a lesson earlier in the day rode the mare who had the overdeveloped muscle, and, well, let's say she isn't the best of riders. She just basically hung on the rein all lesson and her posture was a mess, and she was also *ahem*...rather chunky, so when the poor mare cantered she had a heck of a weight thudding on her back. When I got on her a little later she was really tight in her back and has waaay to much on the forehand, and I felt so exasperated that I'd worked hard on her to try to improve her and then all my efforts were spoiled.

But, even though you may not have very many lessons, horses do remember you, and when they realise that you know what you're doing, you'll realise that they'll play up with you less and less, even though they still might with others. You may not be able to make a difference for everybody, but you can do for you! I admit though that it does take a whole lot longer than if you alone were training him, but we can only make do with what we have. :)

[JuniorxMyxLove]

Kalei - I don't know what breed he is, but thanks!

I have jumping video(s)!!!

part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Ag-DgFi4k
part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYX0l8k0NBY
haha sorry tape of a tape and it got cut into two.

That was from today, with junior :D

haha yeah Joey is a spazz..and it was my first canter without stirrups (intntionally) in like a year, so I was asking him to keep it slow and smooth.
haha yeah my mom wanted to take the dog with her so bad. Like half of the footage from that ay is of the dog. hahaha

hmm I have never done a half pass. or leg yielding. :S

haha rather chunky? oh god I know what you're talking about. Big lady on little junior. sack. of. heavy. potatoes.

haha sometimes I wish I could buy Casper from tammy(owner), let Tammy go back to riding Obie (sweet old qh school horse) and just retrain Casper to be the best little horse. That I could ride and not feel like my legs were hanging to the ground (as they normally do) And never let Tammy ride casper again. hahaha

[Kalei]

Haha I like how you taped a tape off of the tv screen:p Your legs definately go longer down the horse than mine, but you look normal on him to me. I have extremely short legs, I am only 5'1' so I look really short on a horse lol. But if you ask me you look just fine when you were riding:)