Canada - medical care

[Catty1]

Lady's Human -
But this was in Canada. You know, the wonderful national medical system we are theoretically insane if we don't emulate? EVERYONE gets medical care in Canada, Gratis.

Thanks for raising that important point....didn't want to hijack the thread it was in, though.

Yes, Canadians can get almost any medical service for free. But free comes with a steep price.

Waiting times (ignore what Moore says).

One example - hospitals are funded by government (some are starting to be funded privately and publicly, but that is another story).

A lot of our aging population needs hip and knee replacements.

The government gives each hospital X number of dollars to be used for a specific procedure. This means they can do only so many per year.

Result - wait in pain for 2 - 3 years for your surgery.

There is a big surge now in paid services - if you want your MRI or surgery now, fine. But you pay out of pocket. $750 - $800 for an MRI, for example. My friend has a neurological problem with her sciatic nerve. Four months for the MRI. She is on disability, and folks in that case come last.

Corporate types might have their company insurance to help.

Most of us don't. Thank God my CT scan was booked as urgent - took only two weeks.

However, my urgent urologist referral - took me three months to see him.

Think of it this way - the gov't controls the medical budget. There are going to be limits. And each province is different. Most provinces have a health care premium that is paid into the gov't system.

Our system is evolving to emulate that of the US.

Nothing to envy north of the border! :)

[JenBKR]

Thanks for explaining Canada's health care. Here, you can get in to have the procedures done or see a doctor fairly quickly, but if you don't have insurance you better have lots of money. So what health care system is good? I am hoping that the next President of the US will do some kind of reform to the health care system, but what would actually work? I have no idea......

[emily_the_spoiled]

Neither system can continue to function in it's current form. But if they are to change society needs to figure out how to balance equity (the Canadian approach) against the free market (the American approach). There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems, but they are evolving to look more similar. So in 10 to 15 years who knows what they will look like :confused:

[wombat2u2004]

Neither system can continue to function in it's current form. But if they are to change society needs to figure out how to balance equity (the Canadian approach) against the free market (the American approach). There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems, but they are evolving to look more similar. So in 10 to 15 years who knows what they will look like :confused:

Why would it be of any advantage should those two systems evolve to be more similar ???? The rich and the poor are still going to get the respective treatment that they have always had, and always been able to afford.
The problem doesn't seem to be with the system I feel.....more so than the need for more doctors and trained health professionals, more hospitals, more surgeries etc etc. The system as is in both countries works on supply and demand, and everyone knows that if the demand outstrips the supply, then something gives, and that is the bank accounts of the patients.
It's the same with me.....I'm a builder and consultant, there is a big shortage of us guys at the moment....we can charge what we want....we can work for who we like....and this has beeen going on for years. It just boils down to plain old economics.......the dollars are there....we go for them. Everyone is the same. You want change ??? Get more services and doctors going, and then the cost of those services will find their own level.
Wom
Wom

[Catty1]

Shortage of medical staff here too. Big time. Nurses just accepted a 15% increase in their last contract. I agree, cause they do all the grunge work, and put up with patient abuse, and since they are short-staffed they are run off their feet.

Also, being the highest-paid nurses in Canada, they are hoping local grads will stay and work here.

One argument here for the paid-private system is that it would shorten waiting lines and times in the public system

However, I fear the public system and facilities would REALLY go downhill.... :(

Alberta Health (gov't dept) is affiliated with Blue Cross. I can pay additional premiums to BC through AB Health. I have prescription coverage right now, which is a lifesaver. I pay 30% of scrip costs, to a maximum of $25. I did the math on the premiums and I am further ahead.

juggle juggle juggle :p

[sparks19]

Great post Catty1

Most people just look at the word "free" and hop on the bandwagon.... but they don't really think of the implications that come with "free" or as I like to call it "pre paid" health care.

You are completely at the mercy of the government.

My grandmother is 85 and has been waiting for about 2 years for a hip replacement. Every day is agony for her.... but is she any closer to a hip replacement than she was 2 years ago? Not really. She is starting to feel like they are just trying to "wait her out" in other words she feels like they are hoping she will just die off before they have to do the replacement.... and no one should have to feel like that :(

My brother is 40.... he has had 3 knee surgeries.... one total reconstructive. Nothing has worked. They have already told him he needs a total knee replacement but he cannot have one until he is over 50. For now he just has to have surgery after surgery.... he is currently waiting for his next one and he has NO idea when that might be .... he is waiting for them to schedule it STILL and has been waiting for some time.

He has also been quite sick. Since December he has had trouble keeping food down. Are they any closer to figuring out what is wrong? No they aren't.

IN london Ontario you cannot GET a family practitioner. If you haven't had a family Dr for the past ten years you aren't going to get one. Not ONE is taking new patients. Waits in emergency rooms are upwards of 12 + hours depending where you go.

There needs to be some sort of middle ground. But don't be mislead by that appetizing word "FREE" You know what they say.... nothing in life is free.

[Catty1]

Sparks - I had to do some digging - but I found out a couple of things thru the last several years.

Smaller centres with surgical units often have MUCH shorter waiting lists. North Bay, Timmins, the Sault (if you are in ON).

I did an internet search on provincial hospital wait lists...if you phrase the search right, you can find the list.

Also, re: your grandmother - a friend of mine's elderly dad waited TWO YEARS for knee surgery. Finally, his son (my friend) had had it, and PHONED. Apparently his dad had the option to be on a "critical" list or something. My friend got his dad on it, and 3 months later he had it done.

It's one of those 'they-don't-tell-you' things. I'd call the prov health registry and ask....ALSO CALL YOUR MLA. The staff in those offices are connected to EVERYTHING.

"Free" means you can bug us via our toll-free number! :rolleyes:

[Marigold2]

Sorry as an American I must say the Candian health care system is one million times better. We have people here who have to decide everyday food or meds.

I had to have laser eye surgery. Took five minutes, cost $2000.00. I have to have the other eye done as well.

We pay $150.00 a month for our insurance, no dental, no vision. I have a $50.00 co-pay everytime I want to see a specialist and a $500.00 deductable per person. Horrible insurance. Meds cost a fortune as well. My pills for the gluacoma were $50.00 a month.

You in Canada might have to wait a bit but you won't loose your home and or life savings to keep your child or spouse alive.

[crow_noir]

Yes, thank you for insight on what really goes on.

S.O. and i were talking about this not too long ago. (We do every so often and now and then a new idea arises.)

We were thinking What IF the U.S. were to instate Universal Health Care. How would we stay out of the trouble that CAN is in? ...Why not have an inexpensive co-pay. Have three income brackets. Have it be something like a Doctor's visit be $5/$10/or $15. By having these small co-pays on everything then even though everyone is paying a percentage of their income for UHC, then the people using the services are still paying for it, while those not using it aren't too burdened.

(more expensive procedures would have more expensive co-pays of course, but you wouldn't have to pay for the whole thing either. $10,000 procedure $1000/$3000/$5000 co-pay.)

*shrug* ...it was just something we had tossed around.

[wombat2u2004]

Yes, thank you for insight on what really goes on.

S.O. and i were talking about this not too long ago. (We do every so often and now and then a new idea arises.)

We were thinking What IF the U.S. were to instate Universal Health Care. How would we stay out of the trouble that CAN is in? ...Why not have an inexpensive co-pay. Have three income brackets. Have it be something like a Doctor's visit be $5/$10/or $15. By having these small co-pays on everything then even though everyone is paying a percentage of their income for UHC, then the people using the services are still paying for it, while those not using it aren't too burdened.

(more expensive procedures would have more expensive co-pays of course, but you wouldn't have to pay for the whole thing either. $10,000 procedure $1000/$3000/$5000 co-pay.)

*shrug* ...it was just something we had tossed around.

Thats what happens here in Australia....we have a medicare system that is set up, where you pay a percentage of your tax into it (everyone pays the same percentage.) Medicare pays the doctors a fee for each session less a gap which is paid for by the patient.
The last time I seen a specialist ( a few weeks ago)...the cost was $320, of which I got back $250.....so it cost me actually $70.
Wom

[Lilith Cherry]

Marigold, I live in Ontario and our prescription medicines here are NOT covered. I have a serious heart condition ( ventricular tachycardia) and am also insulin dependent diabetic. The medicines I am supposed to take for this far exceed my ability to pay for them if I am to pay for living expenses such as rent, electricity, heating, groceries etc ; I often have to make the choice between medicine or other bills. Canada has many problems with its so-called free healthcare. I also have many decayed teeth with lost and loose filling I cannot afford to replace and spectacles held together with superglue that I hope will stay intact. Free healthcare?!

[Glacier]

We don't pay user fees or premiums in the Yukon. Prescriptions are not covered, except in the case of chronic diseases...diabetics, asthma, cancer, lupus, people in wheelchairs for any reason ect are covered fully, including prescriptions. I have a very good benefit plan through my work so prescriptions are quite cheap for me and Stuart(he's covered under my plan).

Being in the midst of a health crisis myself, I will attest that the system has some problems, but every time I go for another appointment, test or see a specialist, I am extraordinarily grateful to live in a country where I have access to very good care, without having to worry about the cost of the care I need, without having to worry about feeding my dogs or loosing my house.

I won't drive to Alaska for the day without taking out insurance. Breaking my ankle on the wooden sidewalks in Skagway could potentially cost me everything I have and then some.

[wombat2u2004]

I won't drive to Alaska for the day without taking out insurance. Breaking my ankle on the wooden sidewalks in Skagway could potentially cost me everything I have and then some.

And how much time and effort would go into repairing your broken ankle compared to the time and effort that you and hubby have done to get all you own ?????
It's a little bit on the disgusting side....isn't it ????? Things just DO NOT add up !!!!!
Wom

[Marigold2]

Dear Cherry,

I am so sorry to hear of your illness. My heart truly goes out to you. I did not realize that people in Canada have to pay for their meds.
No system is perfect, yet universal health coverage in Canada is still better then what we have here.
One of the problems I feel we have is that 1/3 of all babies born in US are now born with Medicaid covering them.
This is a huge drain on the system. There are people who truly need free medical care, veterns, the elderly, handicap....... They deserve this care and should recieve it, along with enough money to live a dignified life, not on the edge of poverty.
People who can't afford a baby shouldn't have one, Medicaid should encourage birth control. I would rather see birth control pills given out for free then Vigrara. If you are on Medicaid and can't take care of yourself you should not bring another mouth in this world to feed. Let that money go to those that truly need it. No one should have to live in proverty, having another child when you can't afford to take care of yourself just adds on to the problem.


Marigold, I live in Ontario and our prescription medicines here are NOT covered. I have a serious heart condition ( ventricular tachycardia) and am also insulin dependent diabetic. The medicines I am supposed to take for this far exceed my ability to pay for them if I am to pay for living expenses such as rent, electricity, heating, groceries etc ; I often have to make the choice between medicine or other bills. Canada has many problems with its so-called free healthcare. I also have many decayed teeth with lost and loose filling I cannot afford to replace and spectacles held together with superglue that I hope will stay intact. Free healthcare?!

[Blue_Frog]

<another long post from me :rolleyes: >

Heres an example of some recent events (in the last couple mos.) dealing with visits to doctors etc. and what was covered --

- I had to go to the eye doctor for a checkup. This isn't covered by the gov't, so i paid my $100. I had to submit to personal insurance (through work) to get 90% back. I didn't need glasses or any other work, or that would still have been out of pocket. My ins. at work covers $250 every 2 years for glasses, and i dont think that would cover the entire thing if i needed them.

- I went to the dentist for a checkup. This isn't covered by the gov't, so i paid my $145, and submitted to personal insurance to get back 90%. My ins. covers up to 1K a year, but no braces, cosmetic work, etc. and only 50% for bridges or denture work. So, if i fell down, smashed out my teeth, i'd have to pay for anything out of pocket over 1K.

- I went to the walk-in clinic, waited for 4 hours on my 'lunch break' for work, but it was covered by the gov't - paid nothing. Went home and went to bed ;)

- I got a perscription for some antibiotics to fight a kidney infection (was down for a couple weeks). My work insurance covered the meds, but I had to pay the fee at the drug store for each med I was on (multiple @ $6 each) -- but much better than the original drug price tag!

- Last summer, I went to the hospital when I took a line drive directly back into my shin while pitching in softball. I couldn't walk on it for a week, and until my foot started turning green and purple (turns out it was the bruise dropping into my foot) did I go for x-rays. I went late in the evening (about 11pm), and on a Thurs. nite (sometiems timing these things for off-peak hours helps!) -- I waited for 6 hours -but- the doctor check and the x-rays were all covered by OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan).


So, things that aren't covered by the Gov't -- Eye Doctors, Chiro, Physio, Dentists, and a few other things (i'd have to look up more)

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/pub/ohip/services.html


...

But on the downside, healthcare = TAXES for the most part

http://www.settlement.org/sys/link_redirect.asp?doc_id=1004263

For anyone interested in how much we lose from our pays up here -- I'm paying basically 30% of my salary every 2 weeks to 'deductions' -- 25% of which is taxes. The remainder goes to Canada Pension, Employment Insurance. About 2% of my deductions go to my own personal insurance, and LTD. Thats a lot of Ikea shopping trips ;)

Then, we get to have more taxes. I go buy anything, and i'm paying 14% on top of the fact that i've already lost a chunk of money to the government before i even see my pay. So, thats $14 for every $100 i spend. Now, some things are exempt (like bread, milk, etc. - what are deemed 'necessary' items by the govt). But, theres also a tax grab on the gas before we pump, and then once we pay. So, (1 US gallon = 3.7854118 litres) I guess thats why we're paying about the equivalent of $3.94 a gallon -- and thats not even terrible considering the price in Quebec or BC.

tax, tax, tax -- and free isn't necessairly free. However, I'd much rather be paying that, then break my leg and lose my house because i can't pay the doctors. Or not be able to eat so that I could get to see a doctor.

[Catty1]

Lilith - my goodness...do you not qualify for disability income, or at least coverage for medications?

That just SUCKS!

[cali]

wait times suck, yes. but as someone who is EXTREMLY low income I will take our system over the US any day. I like that if I am sick, I can go to the doctor, I dont have to make sure I have money first. all aspects of healthcare are not covered though, dentist and optomotrist appointments have to be paid for up front if you dont have coverage. even though my eyes were clouding over, and I was loosing focas etc.. I had to wait till I got my next paycheck, pay all my bills, then hope I had enugh to get my eyes checked out, and still eat. I could not imagine if I had to go through that for ALL health care.

Perscriptions depend on the people. we have Government plan for seniors($15 cap for covered meds) otherwise there are loads of differnt plans you can choose from. I personally am not covered at all, however because I work in a pharmacy, perscriptions for me and my family are at cost with no dispensing fee.