Do All Vegans Think This Way?

[lizbud]

I know there are a few here who live the vegan lifestyle & I would like
to know if they think this was the proper thing for a baby.


Vegan Parents Get Prison In Infant's Death
Child Fed Mostly Soy Milk, Juice

POSTED: 12:50 pm EDT May 9, 2007


ATLANTA -- Vegan parents in Georgia were sentenced Wednesday to life in prison after their 6-week-old son died of malnutrition.

The baby, Crown Shakur, weighed only 3.5 pounds. He'd been fed mostly soy milk and apple juice. Vegans typically do not consume animal products.

Defense lawyers say the first-time parents did the best they could for their son while adhering to the strict lifestyle of vegans. They said Sanders and Thomas did not realize the baby -- who was born in a bathtub at their home -- was in danger until minutes before he died in April of 2004.


Jurors deliberated about seven hours before convicting the couple last week. Lamont Thomas, 31, and Jade Sanders, 27, were convicted of malice murder, felony murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty to children.

Prosecutors claimed the baby suffered a prolonged and painful death, not because of what he was fed, but because he was fed too little and that his nutritional needs were deliberately ignored by his parents. They prosecutors said the couple intentionally neglected their child and refused to take him to the doctor even as the baby's body wasted away.

During the trial, the father of the baby told the judge that wasn't true.

"We're vegetarians; we are against animal cruelty, so why would I be cruel to my son? Why would I do something with his body? We are against animals being murdered; why would we be cruel to him and try to do something to his body," asked Thomas.

Thomas criticized the prosecution and jury after he and his wife were found guilty.

Prosecutors said the couple slowly starved the baby on a diet of soy milk and juice in such small quantities that he died of complications from malnourishment. The kitchen cupboards in the parents' apartment were empty at the time.

But the father denied he caused his baby's death.

"The fact that we named him Crown, we were proud of him. We weren't trying to kill my son," Thomas said in court Wednesday.

Being found guilty of felony murder calls for a mandatory life prison sentence.

The parent's lawyer said he would appeal the sentence.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

What was the mother's excuse for not breast feeding?
No animal cruelty involved there. :(

[Edwina's Secretary]

My mother told me about this one. The first question is...why didn't she breastfeed? Although it is possible, because of HER diet, she was unable to produce milk.

Born in a bathtub...

[caseysmom]

Doesn't sound like this child died because his parents were vegans, sounds like this child was starved to death.

[slick]

Born in a bathtub... Never mind that....naming a baby Crown???? :rolleyes:

Yes, why not breastfeed???? Poor little kid. He just didn't have a chance. :(

[columbine]

It sounds like there was more than veganism involved in this story. It reminds me of another case where the parents thought God had told them to only feed their child certain things. These people were probably hearing voices as well.

[sparks19]

Poor Child.

If people are going to force their vegan lifestyle on their kids they should at least do some research.

Absolutely ridiculous. they didn't know anything was wrong until the day the baby died? The baby weighed THREE POUNDS... That just doesn't fly with me.... I think the baby was underweight long before the day it died. GRRRR

[CathyBogart]

There are PLENTY of soy-based formulas available for human infants. If this wa ssuch a strong concern for them, they should have spoken to their doctor and gotten some soy-based formula. I have never seen a container of soy milk that didn't actually state on the LABEL that it wasn't meant to be used as infant formula.

[lizbud]

I really would like to know. Do vegans feed their children just what they
eat? To me, this sounds rediculous, but I'm not a vegan.

[Catty1]

From the little the father is reported to have said, I would guess he is a very delusional person who HAPPENS to follow a vegan lifestyle.

He sounds pretty clueless...and doesn't seem to realize that what he and his wife did KILLED their baby.

Name him whatever you want, bud, he's gotta eat!

This sort of thing can give vegans a bad name. I think this guy is just not accepting the responsibility, and I think a psych assessment is in his future.

And his wife? Was she abused or was he a control freak?

idiots...

[animal_rescue]

God that's horrible. :(

My friend is a vegetarian and I know that her daughter eats meat. She doesn't force it on her daughter.

[IRescue452]

That's a common occurrance with dogs and cats, usually cats: vegan kills animal by feeding strictly no-meat diet. Sorry, but even the cardboard container that the soy milk comes in isn't environmentally friendly. I think the parents need more than life in prison, they need their brains registered as lemons. Why waste our tax money feeding them when we could just starve them?

[crow_noir]

Exactly


There are PLENTY of soy-based formulas available for human infants. If this wa ssuch a strong concern for them, they should have spoken to their doctor and gotten some soy-based formula. I have never seen a container of soy milk that didn't actually state on the LABEL that it wasn't meant to be used as infant formula.

These people needed some serious ...help.

As others have said... this isn't a story about vegans, the subjects just happen to be vegan.

[Puckstop31]

Those people obviously missed the episode of House where the vegan parents brought a malnourished baby to the clinic.

Or... Maybe they did not pay attention in Health?

Either way, it is good to see justice served.

[Puckstop31]

As others have said... this isn't a story about vegans, the subjects just happen to be vegan.

Well... Would this have happened had the parents not been vegan?

[Pam]

These people should be glad I am not ruling the world. The mother would be getting a tubal and the father would get *the big snip* to make sure they can't do this ever again. :(

[elizabethann]

These people need to go to prison. I think they murdered their poor baby. That poor little baby - starved to death. This story just breaks my heart. :(

[Catty1]

Puckstop - maybe the child would not have died...but these parents being so clueless, they might have neglected him in other ways. Who knows?

[JenBKR]

Wow....that poor baby. I really think that the parents need some serious psychological help. My first thought also was why didn't mom breastfeed, but as someone mentioned, maybe due to her diet she wasn't able to produce milk. I wonder if the husband has her under his control....... :(

[elizabethann]

CNN has a video of the father complaining about the jail food.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/law/2007/05/09/wxia.vegan.baby.affl

[JenBKR]

CNN has a video of the father complaining about the jail food.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/law/2007/05/09/wxia.vegan.baby.affl


Then they should feed him nothing at all.

[wombat2u2004]

CNN has a video of the father complaining about the jail food.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/law/2007/05/09/wxia.vegan.baby.affl

That is so shocking, the photos of that poor little baby....and that would have been on the fathers mind while he complained about the jail food ????
So pathetic....those two should get the death sentence.
Wom

[wombat2u2004]

These people should be glad I am not ruling the world. The mother would be getting a tubal and the father would get *the big snip* to make sure they can't do this ever again. :(

We could call you The Nueter Queen !!! :D
Wom

[Puckstop31]

Puckstop - maybe the child would not have died...but these parents being so clueless, they might have neglected him in other ways. Who knows?

Probably true... My comment was not a jab at Vegans, it was an honest query.

[Puckstop31]

CNN has a video of the father complaining about the jail food.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/law/2007/05/09/wxia.vegan.baby.affl

Tough dookie. Unless they somehow say that being vegan is a religion (and what a mess THAT precedent could end up being) he is just going to have to suck it up. Either eat the food they give you or starve, just like their child.

[JenBKR]

I am sure that there are lots of vegan parents out there with perfectly healthy children. These parents starved their baby, pure and simple :(

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Well... Would this have happened had the parents not been vegan?


Quite possibly - they sound particularly clueless to me

[Edwina's Secretary]

These people should be glad I am not ruling the world. The mother would be getting a tubal and the father would get *the big snip* to make sure they can't do this ever again. :(

Pam...I am so with you on this one. People need a license to drive a car....why can they breed without a license? The ability to reproduce does NOT equal the ability to be an adequate parent.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

What about ante and post natal care? where were the authorities on this one

[Ginger's Mom]

Well... Would this have happened had the parents not been vegan?
Sadly the answer to this is yes. There are people out there that have starved their infants/children to death and they have not been vegans. They have used other excuses like my religion doesn't allow me to buy food or breast feed, or I didn't think my child needed more than 1 ounce of food a day, and many many more. I don't know if anyone has said "I did it because I am an uncaring, selfish person, so please don't hold me responsible for my actions", although that may be the main cause for such incidences.

[jackie]

That is shocking.

If that guy is already whining, wait until he gets thrown into the general population and the other guys find out he is a baby killer...

[Maresche]

It is when the potential for generalizations like this arise that I feel the need to say--There are jerks and morons everywhere.

Are there unhealthy vegan children?--Yes.

Are there unhealthy vegetarian children?--Yes.

Are there unhealthy omnivore children?--Yes.

I highly doubt these people were truly vegan anyway. Vegans try to avoid causing suffering to living beings. They were NOT doing that for their son.

They sound like fools who jumped on a bandwagon (in this case veganism) because it sounded cool without doing any of the research that goes into what it really means to be vegan, etc.

[Logan]

How sad! :(

AS the mother of a child who had horrible, horrible allergies as an infant, I know that there are infant formulas that are soy based. We used them for Helen after she stopped breastfeeding at 4 months old (her choice, not mine :p) and the normal infant formulas seemed to be causing her asthma issues. I can't remember the name of the one we had to use but it was terribly expensive and necessary for her. If soy is an acceptable infant formula, then these so called "parents" should have provided it, but in a form that works for infants, not adults! This is sick, sick, sick and I totally agree with you, Pam.

Logan

[smokey the elder]

My grand niece had to be on special formula too, she was premature. There are unfortunately too many dirtbag parents of all dietary stripes out there. :(

[mugsy]

They both got life in prison, but, I don't think that was good enough...

complain all you want moron...YOU killed your kid! OY!

[lizbud]

I am sure that there are lots of vegan parents out there with perfectly healthy children. These parents starved their baby, pure and simple :(


I guess they should be the ones to answer my questions. What do vegans
feel is acceptable to feed an infant or toddler? Do they believe in vitamins
for children, or what about vaccinations? The list could go on & on :confused:

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I guess they should be the ones to answer my questions. What do vegans
feel is acceptable to feed an infant or toddler? Do they believe in vitamins
for children, or what about vaccinations? The list could go on & on :confused:
People become vegans (they eat no animal products at all- no meat, eggs, dairy, or by-products) and vegetarians (most common kind eats no meat or fish, but eats eggs and dairy) for very different reasons. For some people, it is an ethical decision, for others, it is purely for health benefits.

Therefore, to ask what vegans feel is right to feed a child isn't really applicable- you could get hundreds of answers. The people that did this to their poor baby were obviously very uneducated and negligent in other ways, too. If they had taken their baby to a doctor, for example, surely something could have been done before this poor baby lost his life. It's so sad that children die because there parents are too incompetent to care for them properly. :(

[lizbud]

Therefore, to ask what vegans feel is right to feed a child isn't really applicable- you could get hundreds of answers. The people that did this to their poor baby were obviously very uneducated and negligent in other ways, too. If they had taken their baby to a doctor, for example, surely something could have been done before this poor baby lost his life. It's so sad that children die because there parents are too incompetent to care for them properly. :(


I think you were right about this. I did find an article in the Chicago Tribune
on this subject & between the article & the comments to the article, most
all of my questions were answered. Thanks.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/features_julieshealthclub/2007/05/vegan_parents_s.html

[Cataholic]

This is just sick. It has nothing to do with vegans, and everything to do with some form of mental illness.

I am not vegan, but, I am vegetarian. I managed to breastfeed, and would imagine a vegan could perform the same way as I.

As to what does *this*vegatarian feed *her* child, Jonah doesn't eat meat. I think he came to it mostly as a by product of my eating style (if I am not cooking meat, he isn't eating meat), but, I don't know how I will react when he becomes more vocal (and, hopefully, more explorative) about food. I hope he makes the same lifestyle choice that I do.

I remember someone offering Jonah round sausage patties, and they were quite convinced he would gobble it down. Well, it *did* look like a soy sausage patty. One bite into it, and the "look" was on his face. Out it came.

[sabies]

Being about 8 months pregnant and a vegetarian myself I now understand more about babies. A vegan should be very aware of proper nutrition since it is not an easy lifestyle if you're strict (how many restaurants/fast food places can you go to?). Being a vegan would not keep anyone from breastfeeding but for various other reasons it does not always work.

I have learned much in the past month about feeding issues and fussy babies. There are plenty of soy formula products and there is formula for babies who do not tolerate milk or soy - which is fairly common! If they had fussy baby issues their pediatrician could have helped them. I imagine they did not go to a pediatrician. 3lbs is very low weight - my unborn baby already weighs more. Even though babies lose weight right after birth their weight should never go down that low or the baby would be hospitalized. I don't think this baby had a chance, vegan or not.

As for my baby she will be vegetarian while I breastfeed but an omnivore after til she decides on her own. Of course for anything more complicated then "heat in oven" or "open can, dump in pot and heat up" my husband will do the meat cooking. As for my dog she is a complete carnivore - she will not eat any of my food, I could drop it all on the floor.

[Lady'sOtherHuman]

What was the mother's excuse for not breast feeding?
No animal cruelty involved there. :(

Exactly!

[Cataholic]

As for my baby she will be vegetarian while I breastfeed but an omnivore after til she decides on her own.

How come? I have managed to successfully meet my child's needs, meat free, for 2.5 years now. There are plenty of other protein based food choices besides meat, and none of them carry the same risk of heart, blood pressure, cholestrol issues that a diet 'rich' in animal protein does.

My son's doctor, at the 2 year visit, commented on his 'health' (after learning he was a vegatarian) and said, "I wish all my patients were like your son". Course, maybe he does say that to everyone...but, I took it as a compliment.

Good luck with the BF. Tough road sometimes, initially, but well worth it!

[AvaJoy]

Doesn't sound like this child died because his parents were vegans, sounds like this child was starved to death.

I agree.

[AdoreMyDogs]

the parents should be offered only 1 glass of cows milk per day to sustain them for 6 weeks while behind bars. That'll give them a hint of what torture that baby suffered in his short existance.

[sabies]

Cataholic - I became a vegetarian (20 yrs ago) based on taste, not because I didn't want to eat animals. Of course I love animals so that often prevents me from giving meat a chance again. My baby's father is not vegetarian so he will be giving her meat. I don't care which diet she chooses.

My only concern over my child's diet is for when she is a little older and is exposed to all the sugar at kid parties and schools. I won't stop her from eating some cake and candy at these occasions but I've been to parties where I've seen kids allowed to skip the main meal (bad, cheap pizza) and go straight for dessert.

[cassiesmom]

I looked at the title of this thread (Do all vegans think this way?) - and I don't know what triggered this in my brain but I thought it was about - people who live in Las Vegas! Boy, is it a MONDAY for me.

I only know one person who followed a vegetarian diet, and on the advice of her obstetrician she started including milk, eggs and dairy products in her diet after she found out she was pregnant. She has since resumed the vegetarian diet but her son still eats dairy products, eggs and milk. (He's 2 now)