This is the last time.. Bye Baby:(

[tikeyas_mom]

Baby attacked Tikeya AGAIN!!!!...



They were doing really good together, till yesterday. I was trimming Tikeyas toe nails in the living room, and Tikeya was making a fuss like always.. After I was done I started walking out of the room.. I glanced back and noticed Baby bowing toward Tikeya, then all of a sudden Baby bit down on Tikeyas Back, and started shaking her back and forth....

I started screaming at baby to let go, but she wouldnt give... :eek: Tikeya was screaming in pain, and I yelled for help.. My dad came running and started trying to pull Baby off of Tikeya. She still wouldn't let go, then my mom ran into the living room and tryed prying Babys jaws off Tikeya, Tikeya spun her head around and bit my mom in the arm..

My mom got Baby to let go for about 2 seconds before Baby went to bite Tikeya Again.. My mom got inbetween and got bit a third time (tore open her forearm).. Baby started shaking Tikeya by her NECK!!!! :eek: I went in to try to pull Tikeya away by the scruff of her neck, and I ended up getting bitten (my thumb nail will probably fall off in a few days.)....

My little brother came in the room and started smacking baby in the butt, and pulling her.. She STILL wouldn't let go.. Baby probably shook Tikeya for about 15 min straight. and all four of us couldn't get her to stop... FINALLY my mom was able to get Babys jaws off Tikeya a second time, Baby bit my mom AGAIN (thinking she was Tikeya).

So thats that, my parents have decided we HAVE to give her away to a home with NO other dogs. She just cant be fighting other dogs like this. And now that humans are getting injured trying to break them up it cant go on.

I dont understand why BABY is like this, she wont even stop if Tikeya cowers. It's like she see's red, and just wants to kill the other dog.


Tikeya isn't the only dog Baby has attacked. When we first moved back here All of us were sitting in the backyard with Baby, Ebony, Daisy, Tikeya, and Oscar.. Baby was laying in the shade, and Ebony just walked past her .. Then out of the blue Baby bit Ebony in the neck, and Ebony did absolutly NOTHING to provoke it.. We were all right there (me, my mom, my dad, and shaun).
After that fight happened we went out and bought Baby a muzzel to wear while all the dogs are outside..
Now she has to wear the muzzel inside too, it just is not fair to her..

This is just so crappy. We love Baby dearly :(:(, and we have done everything we can think of to try to change her, but we cant..

[Karen]

I am so sorry to hear this, your heart must be breaking. She's such a beauty, hopefully someone will have an "only pet" home for her soon.

[tikeyas_mom]

Well my little brothers best friend, and his parents have been looking for a larger dog to add to their family. they had been looking up doberman pinchers online.. so they might be interested in Baby, they are really good people. No other pets in the home... And this way we could see Baby wherver we wanted.

[angelbow20]

Sorry to hear such bad news I know how it feels our one dog always starts fights with the rest of our dogs.

[Karen]

Baby is a lovely blue Great Dane that they raised from a wee puppy. She's had a loving home all this time, and was raised with Tikeya as her big sister. I think she is 3 years old?

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=93349 has some good Baby pictures.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

I think you will be doing the right thing finding Baby a new home and I know you will only let her go to a place where they can handle her.

Try not to feel too bad about this - you have your other dogs to think of too

[anna_66]

I'm so sad to hear this and I know exactly how you feel.

I've never talked about this before because I feel so guilty, but we had a very similar thing happen years ago when we had our RB chow Keisha & our female rottweiler (Harley). There was nothing that happened to provoke the attack...it just happened. Mark also got bit by Keisha, she was thinking he was Harley. We were lucky and my parents were coming to visit from SC and took her home with them.

I know your heart is breaking and I hope that your brother's friend is able to take her so you can still see her whenever you want.

I hope that every one's injuries aren't too bad and heal fast.

Many (((HUGS))) headed your way.

[trayi52]

So sorry to hear this, hope you can find Baby a good home with no other dogs in the family.

Willie

[Logan]

Does she ever go after humans, on purpose? I know you and your family have been bitten while trying to break up fights, but it sounds like she is dog aggressive, not people aggressive. I hope that is the case, Janelle.

I am dealing with a very similar issue right now with our Mack (English Bulldog) and it is tough. Poor Honey wouldn't hurt a flea, but she has become his obsession, especially if Helen or I try to pay attention to Honey.

It is hard, isn't it? You know you have such a sweet dog, but she simply is not a good dog when the others are around. That's exactly how Mack is, but not as bad as what you are describing with Baby.

Please be careful before rehoming her to make sure the people understand the personality they are getting. You could never forgive yourself if something happened to a child who might upset her. Many rescue groups would not rehome an aggressive dog like Baby and Mack seem to be, even if it is not the humans that they go after.

I will be keeping you and Baby in my prayers. I hope your injuries and your mom's injuries are not too severe.

Logan

[Taz_Zoee]

I am so sorry. Baby is a beautiful dog. It's too bad she can't get along with the other dogs. I can't imagine having to give her up.
I hope every one in the family that was injured heals up nice and quick. The biggest injury will be your hearts. :(

[cyber-sibes]

:( That must have been very frightening. Is Tikeya alright now? That is just awful that she had to go through something like that, poor sweetie. How is your mom? Tikeya probably feels very bad about biting her. Prayers that you all heal quickly.
All the best wishes on finding an approrpiate home for Baby.

[cloverfdx]

I hope Tikey is ok :(. And i hope if you rehome Baby that you will take resposibility if she ever attacks another dog whilst in someone elses care.

[Genny]

Hey, I just now saw this. I'm so sorry about what happened! How are you and your mom? Is Tikeya doing alright?

I think you're doing the right thing about finding Baby a new home where she will be an 'only' dog. I hope everything goes well --Baby is beautiful by the way =)

[tikeyas_mom]

Baby is in NO WAY people agressive, she loves kids, and she would never hurt a person.. Tikeya was the one who gave most of the bites, and it was because she was panicking.
Tikeya does have a few puncture wounds on her back, the vet said they dont stitch up puncture wounds, just cuts. So shes on meds now to prevent infection. Baby may need stitches, her ear is hurt too.

This really does suck, We all love Baby soo much, shes such a sweet girl. With a huge Great personality.. I hate to see her leave.. But we really have no choice. I'm going to be very picky to who she goes home with.. I want Her to go to somone who understand the Great Dane Breed.



I hope Tikey is ok . And i hope if you rehome Baby that you will take resposibility if she ever attacks another dog whilst in someone elses care.

I'm going to make it perfectly clear that Baby should Never be around another dog without a muzzel. She Can NEVEr be housed with another dog, (male or female). And once they accept her into their home, she is their sole responsibility. The reason we have to give her up is because we cannot handle a dog agressive dog.

[.sarah]

I know what you're going through with the fighting. Luka and Mandy cannot be together unsupervised and can never play together or eat together. We have found it much easier to keep them seperate than to watch them 24/7 to make sure nothing provokes them. Sometimes we couldn't understand what started a fight. When I got bitten last August trying to break them up we decided it was best to keep them apart. Luckily for us the dogs understand the system. Luka stays with my parents and Mandy stays with me, and when we are all together Mandy is generally blocked off in the living room, or one of them is crated, outside, etc. Since we've been doing it so long it's become a routine for us and the dogs and it's working well, although it's still not ideal and I still worry sometimes ... like in a few weeks we are going to have to use pet sitters while we are out of town for my graduation and we are trying to find a way to take Luka with us so we don't have to worry about the pet sitters forgetting that they can't be together. It's stressful sometimes but I just can't imagine giving one of them up and I am so sorry you have to go through that.

[SemaviLady]

Yikes, I'm so sorry!

Has Baby had a Thyroid panel done recently? Sometimes the Dodd's panel will find some deficiency that can be addressed with medication. A normal in-clinic T3/4 test will not be sufficient because they may be normal while the rest is out of wack.

I'm not familiar with her history. Is she a rescue? If she came from a breeder that you know, the breeder should have the first option for intervention (most I know, request this in writing). Some rescues actually do take dogs back even if it has been years.

It is very likely that she is a very sweet dog. Baby's behavior was very focused on taking out Tikeya but I know that girls can get into it (Baby's at that age where ranking can get to be an issue), but I am concerned particularly because of the misdirected aggression... people are getting bitten and considering Baby's size...

If the bite that your mom took previously and again this time, were inhibited bites (or more worrying, if not) and Baby calmed down immediately when she saw her goof, then I do agree placement in another home (after a vet check and a full thyroid panel with auto antibodies screened) may be the best solution.

Tension in the other animals and worry can do much to shift the stability in a home. :(

Caution: In some locales and in placement/rehome situations, if the dog has bitten someone, and there is not full disclosure, the person who rehomes her could potentially be at serious risk for liability. The placement agreement (one that includes the stipulation to take her back if it doesn't work out) may require that the understanding that she has bitten a human to be in writing.

[tikeyas_mom]

Has Baby had a Thyroid panel done recently? Sometimes the Dodd's panel will find some deficiency that can be addressed with medication. A normal in-clinic T3/4 test will not be sufficient because they may be normal while the rest is out of wack.

I'm not familiar with her history. Is she a rescue? If she came from a breeder that you know, the breeder should have the first option for intervention (most I know, request this in writing). Some rescues actually do take dogs back even if it has been years.

I have never heard of a thyroid panel before. Baby is sort of a rescue.. She was originally bought from a breeder in peachland British Columbia (sunset danes i think?)..Her dogs arnt all registered, or show quality.. She was sold with no papers, under the agreement that she would be a pet dog only. Her original owners couldnt keep her due to moving, so they gave her to us at 3 months old.. Tikeya and her got along great till she turned 2. Thenall hell broke loose.. We spayed her at 6 months, and she was NEVER abused.
I met two of her siblings, both male danes.. They are Both also very dog agressive.. maybe its in the genetics?

[SemaviLady]

I have never heard of a thyroid panel before.
Here's a web page that talks about thyroid and behavior issues
http://www.doganswers.com/Thyroid.htm


Baby is sort of a rescue.. She was originally bought from a breeder in peachland British Columbia (sunset danes i think?)..Her dogs arnt all registered, or show quality.. She was sold with no papers, under the agreement that she would be a pet dog only. Her original owners couldnt keep her due to moving, so they gave her to us at 3 months old.. Tikeya and her got along great till she turned 2. Thenall hell broke loose.. We spayed her at 6 months, and she was NEVER abused.
It's not uncommon for same sex couples of dogs to get into it as a younger one matures. Males with males and females with other females. From the physiology and psychological aspect, neutering females does not reduce potential for this type of aggression. It doesn't happen in all cases. Dogs are individuals.

It has however been shown that sometimes neutering before maturity leads to agression. This is why Canine Companions for Independence and Guide Dog associations neuter at one year or later if it is possible. (not all puppy raisers will be able to cope with a first heat)


Yesterday I made the rounds at the California state capital to visit the offices of the Assembly Business & Professions Committee members to discuss AB 1634. I was accompanied by two police officers who discussed the harmful impacts AB 1634 would have on law enforcement. Also with us was the person in charge of the breeding and training program at Canine Companions for Independence (CCI), who discussed how AB 1634 would harm programs that assist blind and disabled Californians. He also represented Assistance Dogs International, Inc., an umbrella organization over many guide/service/hearing dog organizations.

Similar to guide dog programs, CCI breeds and trains dogs to assist disabled people. They use Golden Retrievers, Labrador Retrievers, and Golden/Labrador mixes. CCI breeds over 600 dogs a year.

My jaw nearly hit the floor when the CCI representative started describing research that CCI did in the early 1990s to understand spay/neuter impacts. CCI wanted to know if early s/n (less than 6 months of age) would yield results at least as good as their traditional spay/neuter age, which is usually over 12 months of age (typical is 17 months of age). So CCI did a controlled prospective research study... the gold standard of research to understand cause-and-effect.

CCI assigned half the pups in a number of litters to be s/n early, while the remaining pups in these litters were s/n at their traditional age. The results were very unexpected. The early-age spayed females were significantly more dog aggressive than the traditional-age spayed females. Urinary incontinence was a much bigger problem in the early-age spayed females compared to the traditional-age spayed females. The early-age neutered males were more fearful than the traditional-age neutered males. The bottom line is that the early-age spay/neuter dogs had a significantly higher failure rate in CCI's program... a smaller percentage of them grew up to be working dogs. As a result, CCI will not spay/neuter dogs before 6 months of age, and usually wait until dogs are more than 12 months old to spay/neuter. The CCI rep said this research has been repeated by others. I believe one of them may be Guide Dogs for the Blind, as I was told by one of their trainers that they recently stopped doing early spay/neuter owing to results they were seeing that they don't like.See context from the middle of this post - http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?postid=1797710#poststop


I met two of her siblings, both male danes.. They are Both also very dog agressive.. maybe its in the genetics?
Could be. Are they also neutered? Do you know what age? Is there an unneutered sibling? what is the state of that sibling's reactivity? (this is a way to study the effect of neutering down a family line, just like the guide dog groups did).
Are the unneutered parents not so aggressive? (you might not know, I realize).

I think that very large breeds mature quite slowly and should only ever be placed in homes that can control the dog through early maturity (so that it doesn't get loose and BREED!) until it has reached at least a couple years of age before neutering.
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?postid=1802199#poststop

But none of this information is helpful for your situation NOW. I think you could take the first link and read up, then see about having Baby's thyroid panel done. The vet may be able to recommend a behaviorist.

[elizabethann]

Baby's the Great Dane, correct?

I've never heard of Great Dane's attacking other dogs like that. But then again, I've never had a Great Dane. I wonder if Baby is sick or something?

That must have been an awful sight. I hope your Mom is okay. Did she need stitches?

I hope you can find Baby a good home and I hope she doesn't attack again.

Good luck.

[pitc9]

I'm so sorry.... :(
I hope everyone heals quickly!

Just as an FYI, the quickest and safest way to break up a dog fight is to grab the dogs by their back legs. They'll stop the second they're back feet are off the ground. They have no balance once you do this, so they can't even really move at all let alone keep fighting with one another.

[angelchampy]

I'm so sorry to hear that. That is devastating. It's so scary to see dogs get into it. I've gotten bitten myself trying to break up fights. I volunteer for a rescue and you never know what kind of history a dog has and whether or not they get along with others. But you definitely cannot go on like this. Somebody is going to get hurt really bad or worse. You're doing the right thing. Logan is right, please be careful when rehoming. The people have to know how important it is that Baby is the only dog. It would be good if those people took Baby - this way you get to see her. Also, watch out for Tikeyas. She may be a little leary or submissive around other dogs now. Sometimes a traumatic incident like that can take a toll on a dog. Hugs to all.

[tikeyas_mom]

Tikeya has been VERY weary of other dogs since this last fight happend.. Just yesterday I took her for a short walk, and a Lab came running out of its yard to greet her and she started growling instantly.. I hope this last fight doesn't effect her relationship with Daisy and Ebony.

[Ginger's Mom]

I have been following this thread, but I haven't responded because I really do not know what to say. What a horrible situation for everyone. Poor Tikeya, I still remember the pictures from the last attack and the thought of her being swung around by the neck for 15 minutes this time just makes me sick. :( I am sure that it was even worse for you to have witnessed it. And of course your mother getting bit is awful and scary. I am just sorry.

[wolfsoul]

From what Jynnelle has told me, this isn't a dominance issue. I've known Baby since she was a wee baby -- she has always been one of the most submissive dogs I've met. She becomes very upset if another dog rejects her (she will go in "her" room and lay on the bed literally all day pouting). She isn't attacking for any particular reason, so it seems. She can be playing happily with the other dog one second, then two seconds later the dog walks by her and she just snaps and goes straight for the other dog's throat, and it doesn't stop when the dog submits -- The other dog never fights back -- they always roll over on their back, but Baby keeps going -- I think she would fight to the death. I think there is something wrong in the aggression center in her brain. It just randomly turns on and then won't turn off again. I wouldn't imagine it would be a thyroid issue. Baby doesn't smell "thyroidy," her skin and coat are healthy, and she is at a good weight. They took her to the vet after this and he said she was in perfect physical health (except for her wound which is infected and she is on antibiotics). I suppose not all thyroid conditions can be seen from the outside but in a mature dog it is more likely for outside symptoms to start -- unless of course attacking other dogs IS the outside symptom.

Jynnelle's mom got stiches and is wearing a sling -- she had bites right down to the bone. Jynnelle managed to get away without stitches but she will probably lose her fingernail, one of the dogs bit right through it.

I am really sad about Baby...You would all have to meet her to know..she really is the most submissive dog, especially when it comes to Tikeya. She always looks up to Tikeya and respects her and tries so hard to be her friend. She is an absolute chicken, not dominant in the least. So sweet towards all people. I'm thinking this is much more like rage syndrome because it is always sudden and unprovoked and so very unnatural.

A picture of Baby hiding from the chihuahua...This was as close as she would get, she was terrified of him.

[luvofallhorses]

:( I hope she can find a home where she is the only pet.

[crow_noir]

I agree with getting Baby checked out to rule out this being a medical problem.

Otherwise, and i really do not mean to sound insensitive, but I've kept quiet long enough. It sickens me and angers me to no end that someone would even consider rehoming this aggressive of a dog!!! What if you were out walking Tikeya and it was some strange dog that did that to her? How would you feel about this other dog running loose and attacking her.

Please reconsider rehoming her and do what is best for everyone. If this turns out to me a medical issue, fine I can see rehoming her. If all the test results come back normal, then i BEG you to PLEASE have Baby put down. Unless this is mediacal, i really don't see any chance of Baby being rehabilitated. Especially since you said that her brothers are dog aggressive too.

[wolfsoul]

Just because a dog is dog aggressive doesn't mean it should be killed. Some animal rescues go very far to rehabilitate pit bulls that were used for fighting, and these dogs don't just randomly attack a dog a couple of times a year like Baby has, they are high drive dogs that will go after any dog they see. Yet these dogs manage to find homes and live happy lives away from other dogs because people "feel sorry for them" and the dogs deserve a home where they can be loved because it's not their fault they are fighters...Doesn't Baby deserve the same right even though she was raised as a family pet?
Heck, I know more dogs that would rip off a person's face, let alone a dog's, and they live just fine contained and controlled in their own home. Just because Baby isn't compaitble with one household doesn not mean she should be put to death.
Personally if a dog wandered up to my dog and attacked it, I wouldn't be knocking down any doors to get the dog killed. I would be taking it out on the owner who can't properly contain their dog in their home.
If you knew Baby you would understand. :(

[crow_noir]

Sorry, none of that makes sense to me. It never has. I just can't fathom why someone would keep a dog-aggressive dog. EVER.

Territorial is another thing. Dogs breed to be guard dogs. Dogs fulfilling a purpose. (These are dogs that normally outside of their homes and yards will get along fine with other dogs. At their own places though, intruder beware. Such as sheep watching dogs.) I understand this.


Just because a dog is dog aggressive doesn't mean it should be killed. Some animal rescues go very far to rehabilitate pit bulls that were used for fighting, and these dogs don't just randomly attack a dog a couple of times a year like Baby has, they are high drive dogs that will go after any dog they see. Yet these dogs manage to find homes and live happy lives away from other dogs because people "feel sorry for them" and the dogs deserve a home where they can be loved because it's not their fault they are fighters...Doesn't Baby deserve the same right even though she was raised as a family pet?
Heck, I know more dogs that would rip off a person's face, let alone a dog's, and they live just fine contained and controlled in their own home. Just because Baby isn't compaitble with one household doesn not mean she should be put to death.
Personally if a dog wandered up to my dog and attacked it, I wouldn't be knocking down any doors to get the dog killed. I would be taking it out on the owner who can't properly contain their dog in their home.
If you knew Baby you would understand.

[Alysser]

I agree with wolfsoul, I know a dog aggressive dog, but his owners are VERY good at controlling him on walks, and since they've moved here he has never gotten out of their yard. They keep him very well controlled and as long as he isn't with another dog he can lead a PERFECTLY normal life, which he does. I am talking about Pettalk's very own Rusty. Dog aggressive dogs can be fine as long as they are controlled and owned by the proper person.

[Ginger's Mom]

I think she would fight to the death. I think there is something wrong in the aggression center in her brain. It just randomly turns on and then won't turn off again.
I have such mixed feelings on this issue. I am not one to say just put the dog down, don't try to help her find a home where she can thrive. BUT, it is this part here that scares me. How do you deal with something like that? This is a big dog that most people would not be able to physically restrain if she were to go after another dog or person. And yes, I added person on purpose. If there is "something wrong with the aggression center of her brain" you cannot guarantee that she won't show the same aggression toward humans. No if there is no identifiable physical/chemical reason for this behavior that can be remedied, I see a very bleak future for Baby.

[tikeyas_mom]

I agree with getting Baby checked out to rule out this being a medical problem.

Otherwise, and i really do not mean to sound insensitive, but I've kept quiet long enough. It sickens me and angers me to no end that someone would even consider rehoming this aggressive of a dog!!! What if you were out walking Tikeya and it was some strange dog that did that to her? How would you feel about this other dog running loose and attacking her.

Please reconsider rehoming her and do what is best for everyone. If this turns out to me a medical issue, fine I can see rehoming her. If all the test results come back normal, then i BEG you to PLEASE have Baby put down. Unless this is mediacal, i really don't see any chance of Baby being rehabilitated. Especially since you said that her brothers are dog aggressive too.


There is absolutly no way in hell We would EVER put Baby down because she is female dog agressive. That is the most rediculas thing I have ever heard. You dont know her, she is the SWEETEST, most passive Dane towards humans. She would NEVER hurt a human, she has only ever shown signs of being aggressive towards other female dogs.. I know plenty of people who have one dog, who is dog aggressive, and they are living just as well. I will make sure that her next owners are FULLY aware that she is dog aggressive, and if she ever gets out (she would probably just come back to my house). Im just discusted that you would even bring up euthinisation as an option.. We would NEVER consider it.



This is a big dog that most people would not be able to physically restrain if she were to go after another dog or person. And yes, I added person on purpose. If there is "something wrong with the aggression center of her brain" you cannot guarantee that she won't show the same aggression toward humans. No if there is no identifiable physical/chemical reason for this behavior that can be remedied, I see a very bleak future for Baby.

, We took Baby to the vet, and she only weighs 101lbs, I can hold her back (not to mention she is FULLY leash trained, she NEVER pulls, even if there is another dog walking by. We just couldnt get her jaws off of Tikeya. She wouldnt attack a person. If you ever met her you would know that isnt somthing that would enter her mind ATALL. I see a very happy and fullfilled future for Baby, but maybe its because I love her, and only want whats best for her. and I will not send her away to "just anyone" she has to goto somone we know, that understands her problems.

[Lady'sOtherHuman]

I don't know if this will help you or not but, I've been reading this thread and it made me think of something that happened to my Dad once. He used to have a Doberman/Southern Coon mix. He was a great dog, big dopey and friendly. And then when he was somewhere between 1 and 2 years old he started getting aggressive for no apparent reason. My Dad took him to the vet and they told him that it had something to do with the growth of his brain and it was causing pressure on his skull. I think they gave him medication but I don't remember. My Dad ended up having him put down because the dog got aggressive with him too.

[Seravieve]

Wow.. I cant imagine having to go through this... Eli and Zeke get into it every once in a while.. and we pull Z off and E usually has a puncture mark or two.. but if they turn on one of us.. thats just a hard decision.

And the whole 'putting down' an aggressive dog... shoot. Bunny is aggressive. Towards other dogs, and when introduced right, she is perfectly fine with them. I wouldn't dream of putting her down just because of that. We have no idea what her past life was like... We rescued her when she was 1 1/2 yrs. Im sure you guys just got bit because she was so honed in on Tikeya.. Same thing happened to me at the dog park.. with a friend's dog and me.

Id definitely find a family willing to dedicate time to Baby and maybe even work with an animal behaviorist? I'm sure you can find a home for her where they are willing to only have her, and no other dogs. Plenty of people only want one dog. And she's beautiful and otherwise sounds like a very adoptable dog.. She just needs to be the only fur-child. Simple as that.

I feel for you though.. really. I cant imagine how hard it must be to know that you have to give up Baby. Such a hard thing to do.. But you know its for the best!

[tikeyas_mom]

I thought giving her away would have been the hardest thing..

[tikeyas_mom]

A very bad update....
:( :(

Click here to read! (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=127106)

:( :(

[buttercup132]

Otherwise, and i really do not mean to sound insensitive, but I've kept quiet long enough. It sickens me and angers me to no end that someone would even consider rehoming this aggressive of a dog!!! What if you were out walking Tikeya and it was some strange dog that did that to her? How would you feel about this other dog running loose and attacking her.

Please reconsider rehoming her and do what is best for everyone. If this turns out to me a medical issue, fine I can see rehoming her. If all the test results come back normal, then i BEG you to PLEASE have Baby put down. Unless this is mediacal, i really don't see any chance of Baby being rehabilitated. Especially since you said that her brothers are dog aggressive too. :eek: I can't belive your serious! My dog is dog agressive with other big dogs and she has been all her life she is now 13. It's called being a responsible pet owner and muzzling your dog when it gose out and keeping it on a leash. What about all the rescue dogs that are dog agressive but people friendly? They should all be killed?
That I find is rediculous that you would say that..
A dog shouldn't be put down just cause it's DOG agressive, it's not that hard to avoid other dogs. I pray you never get a dog that is dog agressive.

I really hope Baby gose to a good home. And I'm glad you aren't taking that persons advice.:rolleyes:

[Vela]

She probably won't get a new home, check the health thread, gas gangrene infection =(

[Callie]

I think, in your empathizing with both the humans and pets suffering in this thread, everyone has overlooked one fundamental issue. That issue is the FACT that the animal in question is not obedience trained to 'release!' or 'let go!' or "drop it!' on command. No one would've been bitten, except the first attacked dog, if the dog had been obedience trained properly.

To give such an aggressive animal to a 'one dog home' does a disservice to both the new owner and the dog. Get him obedience trained...NOW! If he cannot be trained and remains hostile and aggressive, then for gosh sakes, don't foist this pitiful creature off on someone else. Put him out of his misery...suffer once for having to do the deed, and be done with it.

If you think an overly aggressive animal is happy, think again...they're living in fear and hatred. Even if they've never been human aggressive (yet), a child seeing animals fighting, and perhaps killing, one another can traumatize the child for life. Get real, folks.

We all know that animals escape even the best of confines if they're determined enough. To keep a potentially dangerous animal without doing all possible to disarm the dangers, is irresponsible. No, giving him to someone else, even one with no other dogs, doesn't cut it.

Sorry, folks, I just couldn't let this go on. I love all animals and I believe in giving the best possible care but, when it comes to danger to others (even other people's pets) I don't believe it's love of the animal to allow it to live and possibly breed and pass on those characteristics. One down and how many others to live joyously and unafraid as the decent companions they should be and usually are?

With much sympathy for your plight and prayers that it will not continue and even escalate, as is often the case.

Callie

[Hellow]

Have you considered aggression pills?

[applesmom]

Well said Callie! To rehome a dog aggressive dog is to avoid one's own responsibility!

[wolfsoul]

I'm sorry, but this is not a "training issue." This is inherited aggression. It was not allowed to develop -- it just came out of nowhere, and no amount of "obedience training" will turn most high drive dogs away from it's prey. Talk to owners on PT who have had dogs kill their cats, including myself -- and some who have had their own dogs kill their own cats. It was never an obedience issue. Telling a dog to "let go" of it's prey when it's adrenaline is pumping so fast it can not hear or think or see or smell or feel anything will not have any affect. I own high drive dogs, I have trained high drive dogs. I have dealt with working sharpness that will leave you bitten and bruised. Add aggression into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster that no amount of training will control entirely. This does not mean the dog should die. It just means it should not be allowed into certain situations. Hence why Baby is now wearing a muzzle 24/7. You can not always train out a behaviour but there are other ways to avoid dangerous behaviours without unnessecarily putting the dog to sleep. Just as I have friends who avoid having their dogs with cats, with men, with children, etc etc etc.

[critter crazy]

I am not trying to start anything, but how is keeping a dog in a muzzle 24/7, good for the dog??? Seems pretty cruel to me. I definitely think placing the dog, in a home without any other dogs, is a heck of a lot better, than it being in a muzzle 24/7. As long as the new owner is fully aware of the dogs behavior issues, and is willing to fully take on the Responsibilities. I would not enjoy seeing my dog in a muzzle. It would just kill me.

[Karen]

This thread is out of date, Callie. If you read the "gas gangrene" thread, you'll see that, after nearly losing Baby because of her illness, they realized they'd miss her too much, and loved her too much to let her go. When Jynelle and her dog's move out pretty soon, Baby will be stayingwhewre she is with Jynelle's parents, thereby removing the conflict between she and Tikeya.

[DrKym]

I think, in your empathizing with both the humans and pets suffering in this thread, everyone has overlooked one fundamental issue. That issue is the FACT that the animal in question is not obedience trained to 'release!' or 'let go!' or "drop it!' on command. No one would've been bitten, except the first attacked dog, if the dog had been obedience trained properly.

To give such an aggressive animal to a 'one dog home' does a disservice to both the new owner and the dog. Get him obedience trained...NOW! If he cannot be trained and remains hostile and aggressive, then for gosh sakes, don't foist this pitiful creature off on someone else. Put him out of his misery...suffer once for having to do the deed, and be done with it.

If you think an overly aggressive animal is happy, think again...they're living in fear and hatred. Even if they've never been human aggressive (yet), a child seeing animals fighting, and perhaps killing, one another can traumatize the child for life. Get real, folks.

We all know that animals escape even the best of confines if they're determined enough. To keep a potentially dangerous animal without doing all possible to disarm the dangers, is irresponsible. No, giving him to someone else, even one with no other dogs, doesn't cut it.

Sorry, folks, I just couldn't let this go on. I love all animals and I believe in giving the best possible care but, when it comes to danger to others (even other people's pets) I don't believe it's love of the animal to allow it to live and possibly breed and pass on those characteristics. One down and how many others to live joyously and unafraid as the decent companions they should be and usually are?

With much sympathy for your plight and prayers that it will not continue and even escalate, as is often the case.

Callie


Wow .....................have you read this thread? and sorry but if I went by that creed , then my own Rusty would be dead now. he is child agressive, dominant and untrainable...........................

I may want to tell the 10 yr old he sleeps with, and the agility class he goes too, and I should mention it to the people he licks to death that visit.

He was found to be Hypothyroid and also a secondary infection to a tooth issue at 9 months when he came here as PTS. Along with the fact that he is Von Willebrands +

not all aggressive animals are truly aggressive, Rusty still won't and will probaly never handle another male neutered or not. He is amazing with "sisters" and cats and guinea Pigs and birds and rats and anything else I show him. He however has issues with other males.

And he will never deal with any male being friends with Mom. Although he will drop on command and release also. He has achieved his CC . So no I cannot and won't accept that it is an issue. All animals are worth redemption. Even those that seem beyond it, it just takes a few more humans to make it right.

Just my thoughts

kym

[wolfsoul]

I am not trying to start anything, but how is keeping a dog in a muzzle 24/7, good for the dog??? Seems pretty cruel to me. I definitely think placing the dog, in a home without any other dogs, is a heck of a lot better, than it being in a muzzle 24/7. As long as the new owner is fully aware of the dogs behavior issues, and is willing to fully take on the Responsibilities. I would not enjoy seeing my dog in a muzzle. It would just kill me.
The muzzle still allows Baby to pant, drink, and basically go about her normal life. She can even take food and treats from your hand. She is just not able to open her mouth wide to bite. There is nothing cruel about it -- she is still able to do everything normally -- it would be more cruel to the other dogs to leave it off. She acts happy and normal.

[tikeyas_mom]

Baby really doesn't seem to mind wearing the muzzle on a regular basis. She does try to get it off once in a while, which is to be expected. When she is fed (by her self no other dogs around) she gets the muzzle taken off..

As well as when she goes to bed. Since shes been sick with that soft tissue infection she has been ordered to have at least a nap a day, and she sleeps through the whole night WITHOUT the muzzle on. So its not like she lives her WHOLe existance with the muzzle on, there really is no need for the muzzle when the other FEMALE dogs arnt around.

And Callie, that post you made, really doesn't apply what-so-ever to this delicate situation.