Opinions needed..............

[DrKym]

OK, so I usually give them and get paid for it. Now I need to solicit a few, I have several things going on in my life and would appreciate the famous collective minds of PT.

As a few you do know I have had a setback with my health lately, I am doing better and the outlook is good. However the treatments sometimes make it near impossible to get through a normal day.

All of you do know about my newest grandaughter, McKenna, born in November with retinal blastoma, she has had a couple of surgeries so far and is expected to do well. She will lose her lerft eye and be in classes for the blind when she is old enough to start pre-schools and such, my daughter Tiffany will be taught sign, and also braille as they do not know how much if any sight remains in her right eye. Which brings us to my issue.

Tiffany called yesterday to tell me she is getting a divorce, no big surprise, her relationship has been on and off with her hubby since they dated.She is 20 he is 22.
She wants to move here 1500 miles away with her kids, and start over.
I love her and I adore my grandkids, but Tiff and I do not get along after a few days, she is the type that can take anything innocuous, and turn it into an argument.

Example, while visiting with both daughter and grandkids, Jesse (the oldest child) was running some laundry into the dryer, Tiff wanted to take a shower, I wanted a snack. The kids (Gabriel Jesses son is 4 and Llewellyn Tiffs oldest is 2 ) asked me for some. I of course gave them some berries also.
Jesse came in laughed at Gabe and said he had berry face and said thanks mom, he usually gets hungry about now, how bout I start some lunch?
Tiff came out of the shower and said, I can feed my kids mother, why do you have to make it look like I don't? then told Llewellyn she shouldn't ask me for things, to ask Mommy, and she should have waited till Mommy was done with the shower.
Jess told her sister she was being an idiot, and Tiff went off about the fact that Jesse was always the favorite etc. and didn't it bother her that I was "mothering" her kids?

Point is, I want to help my daughter, and my grandkids, I paid their car off last month. But I feel awful for not wanting her to move here. I haven't said anything to her yet. I can't put an answer off much longer, but the stress level will go WAY up, and honestly my health cannnot take that. However I do know that the small town they are in won't be kind to her after the divorce, and they grew up around here in Illinois, so she knows the area and a few people. The job market is larger and the baby would be close to St.Louis and excellent health care for her issues.

Any comments? I could use all of them, I need to make a considered decision, and a different perspective NEVER hurts.

Thanks.
Kym

[Reachoutrescue]

It is hard when it is your own child getting a divorce. This is a hard decision and nobody can make it but you. If you do not feel comfortable with them living there, then you should be honest. Your health is your top priority. If your stress will be increased and your health will go down, then I would say to talk to Tiffany and explain to her how you feel. I wish I could be more help, but I don't know what else to say. As a mother, I am sure you want to help, but as a woman with health isssues, you want to stay clear. I wish you the best of luck in your decision, I as sure it will be the right one.

[Whisk_Luva]

I think you should just 'suggest' the idea to her, as an option, if she says no shes fine just say she should stay with you, just till shes ready.

[Babyboonie]

Wow Kym, I don't really know what to suggest - which isn't much help, I know. I think if I were you I would talk to Tiffany and make it clear to her that although you love her and your grandchildren, your health has to be your main priority and that you can do without unneccesary stresses.

From reading your example, I have a feeling that it would be tough on Tiffany too. She sounds like she wants to prove to you that she is a good Mum and is capable of looking after her children...hence her reaction when they came to you rather than her (albeit she was in the shower at the time). And to be honest, given the choice, she would probably chose for her marriage to have worked and for everything to be ok...but it's not and hence the fact she is turning to you.

As mother it is natural to want to help your children, and I understand that moving with you will be a nicer area, better hospitals etc, but that's not your responsiblity.

Try talking to her before you make any decisions. If it's a short term thing whilst she gets her feet on the ground and finds herself a job and a home of her own, then fair enough - but you need to be clear on this at the beginning.

It's a really tough decision and I don't envy you, but keep us posted.

[Catty1]

I wonder if you phrase it as a mutual question - "Tiff, you are my daughter and I love you, and it would be great for you to be here where you know people and can get a job easily.

"You know, my health has not been really good - and I am not feeling up to doing much at all these days. How can we work out enough quiet time for me without you feeling hurt?

"When I am healthy again, there will be no problem. But for now, I really have to take it easy.'

Let her give part of the answer, or the whole answer.

Just a thought.

Or - Get an unlisted number and don't tell her? :D :D :D

[DrKym]

LMAO, I thought about that! so far though all the opinions are good.
Please keep them coming....I kinda feel like I am in a quagmire here.

[moosmom]

Kym,

We all need to be there for our children at some time in our lives. When I ran away to Michigan back in 2002, I did it because my daughter had become dependent on me. I thought I did it for all the right reasons. I was wrong.

Be there for Tiff. But set boundaries. Maybe, if you can find an apartment NEAR you, it'll help. You know, so close, yet so far away??

I'm here for you, ya witchiewench. You need to talk, call me.

[DrKym]

Kym,

We all need to be there for our children at some time in our lives. When I ran away to Michigan back in 2002, I did it because my daughter had become dependent on me. I thought I did it for all the right reasons. I was wrong.

Be there for Tiff. But set boundaries. Maybe, if you can find an apartment NEAR you, it'll help. You know, so close, yet so far away??

I'm here for you, ya witchiewench. You need to talk, call me.

Thanks Donna I will look for apartments near you for her....................... :p

In the meantime she will be coming with no money no job and a sick baby.
Her sister is telling me to offer to take the kids, but honestly I don't think I can handle having a 2 year old and a 5 month old 24/7. Jesses theory is that way Tiff can work out there and arrive with some money to start over here.

[Prairie Purrs]

Darn, too bad I don't have a place in Illinois yet. (Although I am approved for a loan--yay!) Otherwise Tiff and the kids could stay at my house. Of course, all my cats and I would have to stay with you, because the houses I'm looking at are awfully small. ;)

Really, though, it's a difficult situation. If she's just now decided to get a divorce, might you suggest that she stay put until the legal process is over (court appearances and such)? That would avoid her having to travel back and forth and would give you some more recovery time.

If she does make the move, I agree that you need to do some boundary-setting. (I'm going to have to do the same thing in order to live in the same town as my mother, who is a world-class button-pusher.) If Tiff is going to stay with you, she needs to understand that you'll have to help each other and that it's not all about her.

And seriously, once I'm back there, any time you're feeling frazzled, you and Jas can book a nice hotel in the city for a weekend, and I'll come down and watch over the menagerie. Or you can just come up to my place for a few hours--I'll brew up a nice cuppa, and you can snuggle with Hagrid. :)

[DrKym]

Tee-Hee who said Hagrid is going home :eek: (kidding hunny) as for houses the one next door is down to 39K now so you could move here....hint hint.

Tiff and Stuart are halfway through the divorce already and waiting on little more than the custody agreement( see she doesn't call unless she needs me i.e. the car payoff last month, and no mention of the divorce until she needed me)

I really feel awful, I love her dearly, but I don't really like her attitude as a person if that makes sense and I am going to go to Mommy hell for admitting that.

Boundary setting is not an option, she will agree and then do what she wants anyway, which is how she wound up married at 17, she had her Daddy sign, so that she could leave the house.

She felt my rules were too strict and since Jesse was married and free......well you get the idea.

[dukedogsmom]

If it's going to affect your well being and you're already getting stressed about it, I think you know what the answer is, you know? Do what's best for you Also, as I've heard, make a list of goods and bads. If the bads outweigh it, there's your answer.

[Laura's Babies]

Without reading anyone elses post first here is what I'd do..

She know you have health issues and that you do NOT need the stress. Little ones, even as sweet as they are will disrupt your life as it is, then she has a problem also... For my health I would say "NO" in a heartbeat. That would be inviting trouble into your house and setting the stage for you to get worse.

Offer to help her find a place to live and even help her set it up if she needs help but invite her into my home.... NO!

I will tell you this. One of mine ran into a bad situation of their own creation and found themselves homeless with 2 kids and asked if he, his wife and kids could move in with me. I told him "NO" and reminded him the situation he was in was one of his own makings and why should I be burdened with his bad decisions.. HOWEVER.... The kids were innocent in all that so I took the kids in and let the adults fiend for themselves....

[DrKym]

Without reading anyone elses post first here is what I'd do..

She know you have health issues and that you do NOT need the stress. Little ones, even as sweet as they are will disrupt your life as it is, then she has a problem also... For my health I would say "NO" in a heartbeat. That would be inviting trouble into your house and setting the stage for you to get worse.

Offer to help her find a place to live and even help her set it up if she needs help but invite her into my home.... NO!

I will tell you this. One of mine ran into a bad situation of their own creation and found themselves homeless with 2 kids and asked if he, his wife and kids could move in with me. I told him "NO" and reminded him the situation he was in was one of his own makings and why should I be burdened with his bad decisions.. HOWEVER.... The kids were innocent in all that so I took the kids in and let the adults fiend for themselves....

Laura thank you, this is what my heart is telling me to do, and my sister has offered to help with the grands, I just know that if I let Tiff move back in, it isn't going to be pretty.

I really feel awful, but on the other hand I will feel much worse if I allow this.

[applesmom]

she will be coming with no money no job and a sick baby

Wow! There's a lot to be considered! Can she or will she get a job making enough to support herself and her babies? Who's going to watch the babies if she does get a job?

Not knowing what her job possibilities are makes it difficult to even offer a suggestion. If she is willing and able to support herself and her children if she remains where she is, then it might be best for her to stay there until she can afford to move into her own place if she decides to come home at a later date.

Sometimes it's better to let them figure things out on their own as long as they aren't in danger of going hungry or faced with the children being homeless. Another consideration is that she probably won't be eligable for any welfare programs to help pull herself up if she's living with her parents.

I recently went through something similar with my granddaughter. Instead of letting her and her husband and 4 year old move in with me, I encouraged them to figure it out on their own. They're much better off for having pulled themselves up on their own with the aid of tons of moral support and a minimum of financial support.

Aside from the stress and wear and tear on my health there would have been another danger too if they'd moved in with me. Her husband is a stay at home dad and even though I truly do love him; he and I would have been in danger of killing each other living that close. :D

[DrKym]

I am thinking that the advice here is sound. It seems to reinforce what I am thinking anyway. Still good to hear all views and to make a decision based on many experiences not just my own.

BTW her skills are as a waitress, as for babysitting, I am certain she thinks I will do it. As she stated I do have kids here already, and some aren't even blood. (Jaspers kids live with us 6 months of a year and they are 9-14)

[Marigold2]

I am so sorry to hear of your hardships. It isn't easy being a mom. I always have to laugh to myself when these young girls are so happy to be pregnant, they have no idea that once a mom, always a mom.

My best advice is to try and make her as self sufficant as possible. They are her kids not yours. She decided to have them and she needs to find a way to take care of them. You did your job they are over 18 you are done and now have to think about yourself. After all who will be there to take care of you?

I made it clear to all three of my kids that if they have children they will raise them. I now have my own life I have been a mom for 29 years and spoiled all the kids. They have had their schooling and they have had love, support, advice, now they need to be adults and take care of themselves.

My daughter sounds a lot like yours. The more I do for her the meaner and nastier she becomes and the more she expects. Time to her to be on her own and see how the real world works.

Best of luck to you. I know it's hard to think of yourself but honesty your kids won't so you have to.

[wombat2u2004]

Hi Doc,
Not real sure if I can be of help here, as I'm a foreigner, and I'm sure our "system" here in Australia is a bit different....but I'm going to try and give it my best shot.
What sort of safety nets has the government over there provided for situations such as this ???? Has she any right to public housing ??? And if so, can that housing be provided within a reasonable travelling distance .....
a) to you (so that you may assist your daughter when YOU feel able)
b) to her her ex hubby (who must have some sort of access rights.)
I would think, that your daughter must have some recourse to Government assistance because she has a child with a disability. And because of this, she may able to receive some sort of government monetary assistance whilst trying to get a job to work part-time so that she may eventually become more independent. There are schemes going that help people in situations like your daughter, there are here, I'm sure there must be in the US to.
I would agree with what the other PT'ers here have written..... in that you should speak to your daughter about your own health issues, and whilst not trying to be of an "I don't want you here" opinion, be more like a "I'm mom, and I'm here to help, but my health isn't too crash hot at the moment" opinion. I'm mean you may also have to spell it out to her....like the fact that she left home as a child into that big bad world out there, had kids, taken on all the responsibility of life that she thought she could handle, and has now figured out that life isn't as easy as she thought , and it's time to come home to mom and dad......that this is not on !!!!!
Whilst I do feel sorry for her and this situation that she is in.....I do feel that she should at least TRY and get on now with her own life the best way she can, like pick up the pieces all by herself. I know this may sound a little harsh Doc, but it isn't impossible, even with a disabled child, given that some sort of support is available thru the Government. And then, you can just help out when you feel you're ok to do that, and health permits.
That's my thoughts on the matter mate.
Wom

[Marigold2]

Great advice Wombat.

[Karen]

I will echo the others, especially after you said that you never hear from her unless she needs something. If she's been working on the divorce for a while now, she should also have been working on the "what next" plan. If it didn't please her to be living with you when she was 17, it's not going to be any easier now.

My siblings and I were informed - even before we were even of child-bearing age - that my mother was NOT going to be a "babysitting grandmother." Just because you are a grandmother, that doesn't mean you have to agree to let them all live with you!

We were also raised knowing "You make your bed, you lie in it." As in, we'll always love you, but don't expect us to bail you out of messes you make.

If your daughter doesn't know these things by now, well, it's never too late to learn 'em!

[Daisy and Delilah]

Kym, my reading comprehension skills are not great so I'm not sure if the problem is in Tiff moving in your house or just to the same town.

If you mean for her possibly moving into your house, here is my .02 cents on that:

You have already raised your daughter, she moved away, married, and has her own children. It's now her responsiblilty to take care of herself and those children. It's no longer up to you. I think you have to use the tough love approach if it comes to that in this case.

I would feel terrible if I had to turn my kids down for help but.......if my health were in danger of worsening, I would say, "so be it", and expect them to understand. She should have enough respect for you to do that without question.

I always say, with some experience, that family relationships can quickly go bad in situations like this. Bad feelings will grow and may never be corrected again. What's the old saying about company being like fish? After three days, they both start to smell, so to speak. Anyway...something like that.

I think you could offer to help her find a place and help her get back on her feet again but from a safe distance. If that's truly what you want to do.

At 55 years old, from my perspective, I could never see myself living with one of my children under any circumstances. That may sound bad but, we're all very set in our ways and just not compatible as "house buddies" anymore. The same goes for me living with my mother or vice versa. If I have to do it I'll find a way but as long as there are choices, I'd like to keep us all comfortably seperated.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I don't envy you at all-believe me!! I'm thinking she may be eligible for some type of assistance as well.
Again, she needs to do the leg work herself with possibly a little bit of assistance from Mom. :)

[Blue_Frog]

Tee-Hee who said Hagrid is going home :eek: (kidding hunny) as for houses the one next door is down to 39K now so you could move here....hint hint.
Holy Fishsticks Batman! :eek: I can't even get a one bedroom condo out here for less than 149K! Maybe I should move out there ;)

Seriously tho, you need to do whats best for your health (physical and mental), no matter how much you love your kids. And having the extra stress of your daughter and 2 babies in the house is likely not the best plan. You could help her to find a place of her own, get herself settled back into teh area, and even offer to watch the kids once in a while (ie. not everyday from 9-5), but with the zoo and everything else, theres only so many bodies that can be wedged into one household, and i think yours might be nearing capacity ;)

[DrKym]

Ali, I agree with the zoo part lol!
I did talk to Tiffany today and was told, that since I seem unable to help her and her kids when and how they need it then she will be unable to let me see them, as she only allows family that gives a damn to be a part of their lives.

So I guess I did not have to make the decision after all.

Jesse called and tried to tell me not to be hurt, that Tiff is stressed and being awful to everyone, and to let it slide. That she will keep me updated on the kids and talk to her sister if she doesn't nail her first.

[mike001]

You have the answer to your question under your nose. What your daughter said to you about not seeing your grandchildren because you can't help is selfish and immature.
Invite her to live near you, make it clear that she must find her own place because of your health issues and make it clear that she is the mom for the kids, not you. Sounds like she needs to grow up fast. It didn't work before, it won't work now. I wouldn't put my health on hold for her problems that she herself created. Make it very clear that she will have to get a job to support herself and her kids.
If you can spare the money, offer to pay first month's rent on a place and then she's in charge.
I think it's called tough love. The dividends are great in the end though. Good luck.

[Catty1]

Actually, Mike - I think Tiff's comments to her mom put her in just the right spot for her to work everything out for herself, as she should.

If Tiff has cut Kym off - FOR NOW - then she can go ahead and do it her way. A few good doses of humble pie won't hurt her one bit.

"...if [Jesse} doesn't nail her first." LOL

Kym - sounds like you can let this one slide - Tiff has to figure this out by herself, is PO'd and taking it out on everyone. That is my guess.

HUGS to you...Look after yourself and maybe she will learn to do the same.

[wombat2u2004]

Ali, I agree with the zoo part lol!
I did talk to Tiffany today and was told, that since I seem unable to help her and her kids when and how they need it then she will be unable to let me see them, as she only allows family that gives a damn to be a part of their lives.

So I guess I did not have to make the decision after all.

Jesse called and tried to tell me not to be hurt, that Tiff is stressed and being awful to everyone, and to let it slide. That she will keep me updated on the kids and talk to her sister if she doesn't nail her first.

Ahhhhhh...Doc. You don't deserve this mate. Mike has a good idea, perhaps you should try that.
Wom

[cassiesmom]

HUGS to you...Look after yourself and maybe she will learn to do the same.

Hugs from here, too, and prayers and good thoughts.

[carole]

Gosh i don't envey your situation at all, i am sure your daughter is just stressed and does not really mean what she is saying,still very hurtful all the same.

Maybe it is a blessing in disguise that she has taken this stance with you, we all want to be there for our children in hard times,but is sounds like your daughter is making that very difficult for you to do just that, honestly she just has to meet you half way, or it's no way, as for being a built in babysitter, that is not fair either, you have your own well-being and life to think about as well,be there for her as much as you feel you can, I am sure if she got a place of her own nearby, you would beable to pick and choose your time with her and the children, and help whenever you felt it was possible or needed, anyhow good luck, and try not too feel guilty, because you have nothing to feel guilty about ok. :)

[Laura's Babies]

Don't let her remarks about not letting you see them ruffel your feathers any. I would laugh at that and be on my merry way and she would never know I worried for one minute about that.. Because I know the first time she needs a babysitter, guess who she will call.

My grand daughter does that to her mother and she gives in every time giving that girl more and more power over her. She comes in that house whenever she want and "takes" anything she wants (I call it stealing) and if Mom complaines, she uses the threat of keeping the kids away to "whip" Mom into place. She takes money, their car, even her Mom's clothes, or whatever she wants. Don't EVER let her use that on you and have it work, you would be opening the door to God only knows what.

I had only one child that tried that one on me because he used it on their other grandmother and it worked. I told him "fine" and went on to the next subject without hesitation. Before the day was out he called back and wanted to know if I could keep them that night... Nope, I had plans that night.. LOL! He NEVER use that on me again! Believe me, it is all in how YOU respond to their threats and blackmail. (It only works if you let it)

[Daisy and Delilah]

Actually, Mike - I think Tiff's comments to her mom put her in just the right spot for her to work everything out for herself, as she should.

If Tiff has cut Kym off - FOR NOW - then she can go ahead and do it her way. A few good doses of humble pie won't hurt her one bit.

"...if [Jesse} doesn't nail her first." LOL

Kym - sounds like you can let this one slide - Tiff has to figure this out by herself, is PO'd and taking it out on everyone. That is my guess.

HUGS to you...Look after yourself and maybe she will learn to do the same.

Well said!! :)

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Do you have any other family members living with you? If so, what effect would the change in arrangements have on them?

[DrKym]

My husband my 10 year old son and for 6 months of the year Jaspers 4 kids,
along with 3 dogs 4 big birds, 8 little birds , 13 cats and a snake.

It isn't as much about her as it would be me being stressed over little ones and their fingers with some of the rescue birds, Goof would be crated almost 24/7 as she doesnt like little kids, she grew up with Adrian but hates his friends even so when he has friends over she is crated or in the office with me.

Tiffany needs to simply stand on the feet I gave her, and stop thinking that everyone else owes her anything. I am sorry but I have done my part, the last straw was her saying I won't see the grandkids. I hope her soon to be exes parents will sit for her, oh wait they charge her for sitting.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Sorry to hear about your tough situation. I just read through these posts and I think you made the right decision.

My brother did the same thing to my mom last year- moved into her house with his 4 year old son. My poor mother, who is the nicest person on the planet and has the hardest time saying "no," aged more in that one year than she has in the last 5. My nephew, while he is smart and cute and a great little guy, can wear a person out in 10 minutes. Luckily, my brother has moved on and she decided if ever he wants to live with her again, she will just say have to say no for her own sanity.

[kimlovescats]

Sweetheart, don't let her come! She is a grown woman now and how dare her be so selfish as to even ASK when you are having such health problems right now! I know you are concerned for her babies, and you should be, but even still she is their mother, not you!

HUGS,
Kim

[KitCat]

You have to put your own health and wellbeing first.