RINGWORM at the Sirrah house...argh updated 4/11/07

[sirrahbed]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid155/p36cafdb5d359090b53559bad782fb27e/f5679cfc.jpg

Oh, I know this is Cat Health and I did post there - but General is so much more active and I need some input :(

Several weeks ago, I took Emily to the vet because of some hairloss patches on her belly. The vet said he was pretty sure they were from excessive grooming, but did the usual diagnostics "just to be safe". So I thought we were ok and I have been trying to keep her happier and watching the other cats who may be stressing her.....last night my vet called to tell me that Emily's fur culture came back POSITIVE for RINGWORM :(

So, I am off to the pharmacy to get her medicine and to the vet for the special shampoo. I don't think he wants me to shampoo all the cats but just to watch them. I have read that all cats should be treated. Anyway - Emily's spots do not look like anything I read about and even the vet was pretty sure they were not ringworm. So it is rather hard to really monitor the progress. Her spots are simply areas where the hair is very short - no redness, scabbing or anything.

I think she will be pretty easy to bathe because she is docile but I know it will stress her.
The medicine will need to be given after a fatty meal. The fungus medicine needs fat in order to be absorbed properly. (Griseofulvin I think it is) I read that canned food is what is recommended but with the food recalls _ I worry about even buying anything wet. I am thinking that I will offer her some cream or put some fish oil over her dry food. I am not sure if she would lick butter.

OK, I will welcome any suggestions and maybe get some pictures of my Emily as we go through this ringworm thing....Oh I hope nobody else gets it and that we can get it cured!!! :(

edit: just back from the pharmacy and vet and am pretty frustrated. First off...sticker shock at the Kroger pharmacy as the bottle with 300cc of Griseofulvin cost $109 :eek: :eek:

I am frustrated with the vets also because I am still unclear about what I am supposed to be doing. They sold me a bottle of the shampoo ($12 - not bad) but the instructions on the bottle say "bathe every 3 days". Fine - for how long? I ask and the tech goes blank and leaves to ask someone else and returns to tell me use the shampoo as long as she is on the medication and to return for a recheck in a month......so off I go to get the medication at the pharmacy and in addition to the sticker shock, the directions say "1 teaspoon twice daily". OK, for how long????

another call to the vet where they tell me use the whole bottle. 300cc will last a month, so I medicate and bathe for a month? TEN baths? yes

OK, now I start reading on the internet and see several articles that say some shampoos need to be left on the coat for a few minutes, so check the bottle: ok, there is a label over the directions and nobody said to leave it on so I call AGAIN...oh yes, the tech tells me it is a good idea to leave it on for ten minutes - oh and what shampoo do you have?? ARGH - I have what you sold me and I can't even read the label so I scrape and scrape until I read part of the directions which DO say leave it on for 5 minutes. I never would have known this if I had not seen it on the internet and called back to ask...

I have yet another phone call into the vet's office - asking that the DOCTOR call me. I am not real good about complaining, but this seems like pretty fragmented care to me. I like my vet and he always seems very careful and thorough. I sure hope he cares to know that I don't feel his staff is being very careful in my opinion. :rolleyes:

I am supposed to be watching the other cats of course. What Emily had looked like broken fur and was barely noticeable. I have never seen ringworm before and what she has looks nothing like any picture I can find. The other cats are ALL starting to look like they have thin places - I look closer and no, nothing there...oh I hope nobody else gets it. I read that WE can get it too - also the grandbabies - not really sure what to watch for on us either.

Well I am off to warm the bathroom for Emily's first bath. Guess I will give her the first dose of medicine, too. I hope I can get most of the medication down her - a whole teaspoon is alot of liquid. Poor baby. I hope the bath itself goes well. I sure don't look forward to leaving shampoo on her for so long....no way I can get her to sit still.

....the first of ten baths is over. She did ok - the five minute wait seemed to last forever. I ended up lathering her the whole time as there is no way she was going to just wait....

....the vet returned my call and he seemed concerned and said he would speak with his staff and I gave him the names of the three techs I spoke with. I am glad about that. He was in no hurry and answered my questions, explaining about ringworm and how to spot it in the other cats and on people, too. I need to call Chris and let her know so she can be watching my grandbabies. Emily does not go near them though, but the ringworm spores can be all throughout the house.

I have not given her the medication yet because she has to eat something fatty first. Eating is the last thing I can get her to do right now - I can't even find my little wet girl.

[Logan]

I have no ideas or suggestions, Deb, but I feel your frustration. :( I hope you can get it figured out, for your sake, and Emily's, too.

Logan

[chrangharris]

Mom,
What a mess! I'll be keeping an eye on the girls! I don't blame you for not wanting to use the wet food! I know some people who give their older cat baby food- the meats. Could you do that for Emily? Some puree turkey or chicken?

Chris

[Laura's Babies]

OH GOSH! This is awful! GOOD LUCK!

I know there are others here with experience and I remember the posts about it, I think Jen had one not long ago, maybe she can offer some input..

Question is, where did Emily get it from?

[sirrahbed]

Chris - the baby food is a great idea and I will get some for her!!

LB - I wonder where it started too. Why out of the blue since they are always inside and not around any other animals? Maybe this has been here a very long time and I did not even know?? One of them could be a carrier I think. I think Emily may have had it off and on for a year or so since she has not had any sores, redness or scabs. I have no experience with it. I wondered if we could have brought in on our chothes? The hoomans don't have it. I am also hoping that the grandbabies don't catch it.

I did a search here and found several posts from Reachoutrescue and Lut -I remember when she (Lut) was having to bathe three of her babies!!

I still can't find Emily - she is likely hidden away somewhere. Poor little thing is so timid and docile. I bet she will really hate me once I have to give her the medicine twice daily for the month :eek:

[catmandu]

The Found Cats and I are sorry to hear that our friend Emilys not well, and we hope that her Meowmie can make her better and make those worms all go away.

[jenluckenbach]

I posted on your other thread. but I'll keep track of you here, too.

[sirrahbed]

Jen - you have given me some excellent suggestions from your experience. I have added Betadine and fungus cream to my list along with baby food. I had not thought of the pet carrier idea and I also read online that 3-4 baths were enough so think I will go more towards once a week.

She is still upset about her bath. I am sure this is just her personality. She is sweet as can be but has always been skittish. I just spotted her out of hiding, huddld by a heating register. She bolted when I spoke to her though.

Oh yeah - we will live through it - Sure helps to have PT folks to get suggestions and support from - how did we all survive without the internet? No professional expert has ever given me the information that I get from the experts here. :D

[Reachoutrescue]

I had a case of ringworm here with our rescues. I used medicated shampoo and katoconasol (sorry if it spelt wrong). I got the cream over the counter at my local walmart. It worked well, but be carefull, it is HIGHLY contagious to humans. The best thing is to wash everything and keep her away from any other animals, wear gloves when bathing her and medicating her. I never used the oral meds due to the fact it is VERY hard on their tummies. Good luck and keep us posted. You can try any cream, as long as it is stated it is for ringworm. Human creams are just the same as vet prescribed creams, just cheaper.

[Catsnclay]

I don't know anything about ringworm-


But, on the baby food, READ the label and make sure there is NO onions in it. We use the Gerber 2nd foods, usually the Turkey or Chicken. I also learned (the hard way) NOT to use the Ham - seems ham is hard on their system :rolleyes:


I cannot believe that you got ringworm!! Becareful and buy lots of bleach!!

Good luck Deb!

[Freedom]

Oh dear, the run around with the vet's office, and the label on the bottle, that just made everything worse! I am SO sorry to hear about the ringworm.

Very glad to hear the vet was also concerned with his staff's responses, and took the time to speak with you.

When Crystal arrived here as a 2 pound kitten, she had something on her brow. The vet was never sure what is was, as it did not flouresce in the black light as ringworm is supposed to do. But we went ahead and treated it as ringworm. I thought I had pills, not liquid medicine for her? But it has been over 2 years, so who remembers! I also had to give her baths, 3 times a day for 10 days.

Since she was so tiny, it was a bit easier to deal with than an adult cat. Once I'd have her lathered up, I'd just walk around with her in a towel for the 10 minutes. Then rinse off. You aren't supposed to get the shampoo in their eyes, and this was on her brow, so you can imagine the tricks involved in THAT! The fourth day some went down into her eyes, she shuts them tight and wonldn't open them. I had her at the vet's office so fast I think I broke most of the driving laws! It turned out OK, they flushed her eyes with saline for 5 minutes.

We got through it, none of the other cats got it, I didn't get it, and what a relief when it was all over!

You CAN and WILL get through this!

[sirrahbed]

I am sooo appreciative of these ideas! Good to know about the onions that may be in the babyfood, Bunny. I did not even think to check that. I am off to the store in a few minutes and now have added bleach to my list. I found some fungus cream under my counter but will pick up something generic, too.

Oh my I can't imagine how to shampoo and treat near the eyes!! ..especially on a baby like Crystal....I have read your threads Reachoutrescue:) I did not even put any shampoo on Emily's face - was afraid to. The patches are on her belly which is supposed to be an unusual site for ringworm on the kitties.

I did more internet reading and found that the ringworm spores thrive in the dirt outside so I can only guess that we brought it in on our shoes. The cats spend lots of time in the covered patio room and that is also the room we use when we come in from gardening. Who knows?

Oh yes and the expense with the medication...I read that the Griseofulvin isn't liscensed any more to use on cats so we have to get the human grade stuff and it is brandname and not generic so I am pretty sure that explains the high price. It is just a shame that some of the "routine" treatments are so costly. I don't know how rescues and shelters can cope with this - or just folks that have multiple cats.

Keep those ideas coming! Thanks!!

[Catlady711]

Sorry to hear about the ringworm problem.

A few thoughts here:

*Use the liquid and the baths like the label says for the full amount of time, no shortcutting it. It takes quite a while for ringworm to completely heal up. It may look better in a week or so but may still be lurking there ready to come back as soon as you stop treatment early.

*Yes Griseofulvin is expensive. There used to be a wonderful and CHEAP product available for pets. However like way too many things, they quit making it, forcing vets to have to prescribe a human alternative, which totally makes me MAD at drug companies!

*Griseofulvin works by healing from the inside out in the new skin that forms. The bathing helps the outside skin.

*Ringworm is a fungus (not a worm) that is present just about everywhere and thrives in moist, humid areas, and particularly likes humid weather. It's a cousin to athletes foot fungus. People CAN get it from animals, but mostly it depends on the person. Kinda like some people get athletes foot all the time, and other people can walk barefoot around a pool area all summer and never get it. Just to be safe, always wash your hands good after handling Emily. Just for the record my boss has been a vet for over 30 years and has only got ringworm from an animal once, I've been there for 6 years and have never got it.


*This one is a question. Did your vet use a Wood's light (blacklight) when Emily first came in? Or did he just use the culture? Many times a Wood's light can show ringworm as a florescence and can be diagnosed faster than waiting several days for a culture report. However the Wood's light isn't always 100% at finding it, but can greatly help. I was just curious since you didn't mention it.

Good luck with Emily's baths, hopefully she'll realize in the end you are trying to help her.

[sirrahbed]

No, the vet did not use the light on Emily. He did not think it was ringworm at the time but took a slide of skin cells and plucked hairs to culture. That was 2-3 weeks ago. The skin looks normal and healthy - no redness, sores or scabs. There are the two places on each side of her belly and on the backside of her rear foot.

I agree with you on the drug company problem - so frustrating that folks have to pay what is charged. She has not had any medicine yet because she won't eat! We got her an assortment of things to tempt her - oily tuna, baby food, toddler meat sticks, wet catfood. But, at least she has come out of exile and snuggled onto my lap.

I marked the calendar for baths every four days. Thanks Catlady711 :)

[Catlady711]

I agree with you on the drug company problem - so frustrating that folks have to pay what is charged.
I marked the calendar for baths every four days. Thanks Catlady711 :)

You're welcome. :)

It's also a frustrating problem for the vets too. They try so hard to help animals and minimize the costs to owners (at least where I work anyways) and some drug company just up and decides to stop making wonderful but inexpensive products that worked with little or no side effects! So that kinda puts the vet in a bad place having to prescribe out or carry more expensive drugs, as well as the fact many times the human version, or more expensive versions don't always work as well as the old ones did. It frustrates the owners who may have a tight budget and don't see results as fast as they used to or requiring longer treatment which means spending more $$$.

We used to have a wonderful cheap little pill for siezures that worked great! But a few years ago they stopped making it, so we had to switch to a slightly more expensive one that has more side effects, is a regulated drug so it requires a TON of paperwork every time we dispense it, and is so touchy on the dosage that it doesn't always control siezures as well as the old pills did.

We used to have a wonderful product for mange dips, but a few years ago, again some company up and decided to stop making it. That one really put us in a bind as there isn't really any alternative product that works nearly as well or fast as the old one did.

We used to have a wonderful insulin for our diabetic animals and yup, they up and stopped making that also. The new one requires almost starting over to get the glucose levels just right and of course costs almost double. *sigh*

It's like I've said for years about any product: Why do we need new and improved? What happened to old and reliable?

[krazyaboutkatz]

Debbie, I'm sorry to hear that Emily has ringworm.:( Starr had it when he was a kitten and I returned him to his foster mom so she could treat him because she also had several others fosters that had it. He had dry flaky white patches. It took several months and then he had another small a outbreak on his ears when I had him.

I bathed all of my cats just in case and I just used some medicine on Starr's ears but it irritated them a lot. I later used animax cream and he later had the same ringworm culture test that Emily had to make sure that he didn't have it any more. I also gave all of my cats the dog program pills just to be on the safe side and no one caught it. I forgot what the doseage was though. Good luck.:)

[Catsnclay]

Well Deb - how's it going??????

[shais_mom]

ohh
gosh -
I have no advice but am offering hugs and prayers!

[Lizzie]

I'm sorry you are going through this and hope that Emily's ringworm clears up quickly and it doesn't spread. Adult cats are more resistant to the fungus than kittens, so that will help. And, as others have said, some people are prone to get it and others are not. If you haven't experienced any itchy patches on your skin by now, you will probably be okay since I am sure you are now being careful not to allow Emily's fur to touch your bare skin.

I had three kittens with it at about the same time as Tracy. (Imagine keeping kittens still for ten minutes while the shampoo "works"!) Even though only one kitten showed signs of ringworm, I isolated them all in a large bedroom. That was in early August, when the weather was glorious and they really should have been out on the deck in the sunshine. By the time I was able to release two of them, it was December. The third kitten didn't show any signs until her brothers were almost clear so had to be isolated alone for another three months. Only now is her fur starting to grow back across her nose and around her eyes - the most horrible place for her to get it because extremely difficult to treat.

I feel sure that the fact you are treating Emily with oral as well as topical medicine, that she is an adult cat and you don't have any FIV+ cats will help you get through this in a few months. You will have to be insanely clean, laundering in warm water everything that Emily lies on every single day. Clorox, most unfortunately because I loathe the smell, is the only thing that kills the spores as you probably know from some web research. I threw out a sofa, climber, computer chair and rugs in order to ensure that I got rid of the spores because I couldn't Clorox them. Everything that I took into the isolation room was cleaned with Clorox when it left. Their dishes were washed on the sterilisation cycle. I wore a robe, overshoes and gloves that stayed in the room.

Good luck! It takes time and work, but it does go away.

[catnapper]

Oh dear - I have no advice but I wish you best of luck with everything. It sounds like a nightmare. (((hugs))))

[moosmom]

Ringworm is HIGHLY contagious to both pets AND humans. Make sure when you handle a cat with ringworm to wear rubber or latex gloves and always wash your hands everytime you handle them.

Miconizole cream for athletes foot is a great topical cream. I had a case of ringworm years ago. Fortunately, only one of my cats had it. She was isolated for 3 months till it completely disappeared. Her ears were totally bald. My daughter and I took turns sleeping in the bedroom so Marina Mar wouldn't get lonely.

Good luck and please, be careful.

[Maya & Inka's mommy]

Awwwwww, I just found this thread. I am not often on PT anymore...

My cats got ringworm (Maya & Inka) after we got Zazou. Zazou came from a shelter, and was a carrier for this disease. She didn't get ringworm, but I treated her as well!
I had to wash all 3 cats (Snoopy wasn't here yet) every 4 days, and give them medication. It was a VERY HARD time! I was as wet as my cats, and my kitchen was a wet mess :eek: . But..... it helped!!
After a while, when the bads weren't needed any longer, my scratches got time to heal properly ;) . Be careful though when you have touched her: wash your hands with a special disinfectant !

Good luck, Debbie!!

Pics from my girls. Don't they all look so happy???
lovely Inka
http://users.pandora.be/bernardgabriels/images/bad1.jpg

gracious Maya
http://users.pandora.be/bernardgabriels/images/bad3.jpg

and the one who caused all this mess: lovely Zazou ;)
http://users.pandora.be/bernardgabriels/images/bad6.jpg

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Poor pusscats....hard to explain to them that its for their benefit isn't it?

[sirrahbed]

Update on Emily and the battle against ringworm:

We are giving Emily her griseofulvin doses twice daily at 1 teaspoon at a time. She HATES the medicine and I think that right now, she hates us also :( The medicine is supposed to be given with a fatty meal, but Emily refuses wet food. We have tuna in oil but she does not even want that right now. So, we catch her twice a day, wrap her in a towel and do the best we can in getting that medicine into her. She has learned to spit lots of it out. This morning - I was very worried that she inhaled some of the medicine. I heard gurgling and gulping :confused: When I put her down, she acted very distressed and the rattling sound was very loud for about 5 minutes. She was able to give a few coughs and she is breathing fine now though she looks scared and *I* am still a little scared that I may have choked her. I hate doing this to her even though I know it is to get her healthy. It still makes me want to cry because she gets so upset - poor baby.

I have also researched and sent for some of the Program dog tablets. I found some research done among showcats and am following those suggestions.

As for the baths - the shampoo the vet sold us is Hexadene which does not even contain a fungicide - the vet feels that regular bathing helps to remove the spores. So, I am bathing her but not really aggressive about it. She hates that too. Thankfully, Emily is so sweet and docile that the baths are going pretty well - no bloodshed yet. Today is bath day but I may or may not do it.

I am washing all of our linens with diluted bleach and doing what I can to meticulously clean everything - but there is just no way I can eliminate the spores. We have upholstered furniture and carpet throughout the house. But I am trying. Lots of handwashing and cleaning. All of our kitties are snuggly with one another and short of isolating Emily for the next month - the cats are going to come into regular contact no matter where they are. I hope that isolation does not become necessary. I am petting and stroking her as I always do.

At this point, I don't know what else I can be doing. I hope we can get rid of the ringworm and that the other cats don't get it. I am planning to give everyone the Program. Emily's hairloss is contained to 3 spots and all but one are looking good. One spot is about the size of an egg but the skin looks good and there is no redness or irritation - it just looks like she has been doing too much grooming.

Fingers crossed here :)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/pb1202fe25e164a6236d2ceae6bd04d40/ef49411c.jpg

[smokey the elder]

When I had a ringworm outbreak 4 years ago I was given Program tablets (double up the dose) and a topical called Trezaderm. The combination worked very well. I never bathed a single kitten. I was careful not to spread ringworm, but I think adults are usually more resistant. At the time the vet said I could give Program as a preventative, so I did that, too.

[sirrahbed]

When I had a ringworm outbreak 4 years ago I was given Program tablets (double up the dose) and a topical called Trezaderm. The combination worked very well. I never bathed a single kitten. I was careful not to spread ringworm, but I think adults are usually more resistant. At the time the vet said I could give Program as a preventative, so I did that, too.

Did you use the tablets? If so - how did you administer? Crush the tablets??
These dog tablets are supposed to be flavored so I hope this helps. I plan to crush and give everyone their own dose in tuna or something wet that they love. Emily will be a problem since she does not like wet food though I am hoping that a serving of tuna when she is hungry will help.

Anyone have suggestions about giving liquid meds? I have looked at some sites - just say tip head back and squirt the liquid in. ( I use a syringe) This is getting harder with each dose since the amount is a teaspoon and Emily is learning how to spit it out. Probably no easier way though - but after the choking scare this morning - I am hoping that someone can give me some better ideas. :rolleyes:

[Killearn Kitties]

Oh dear I'm sorry to hear about poor Emily. Ringworm is not something I have experience of, but I will be sending good vibes to Emily and you.

[Lizzie]

I didn't have to bathe my cats either, just shampoo each affected area with KetoChlor, rinse, shampoo again and leave on for ten minutes, then rinse. I wasn't able to do this to the kitten who had ringworm across her nose and eyes and she took by far the longest to clear up even though she was the only one who I put on oral meds. She was on Griseofulvin, which is horrifically expensive, and we used a fungicide ointment, but her ringworm was very resistant. I told the vet I couldn't afford any more Griseofulvin and he gave me a prescription for one of the new oral fungicides, which I got at Costco for $25 for a six week course, and it worked. Of course, each area of ringworm goes away by itself after about six weeks, so it's hard to tell what is working.

It's a frustrating infection to deal with. Every vet has their pet theories. Every cat responds differently and copes differently.

I isolated my kittens because some of my adult cats are FIV+. If they got it, it would take many months to get rid of and they can't take the oral meds. If you check your other cats daily for hair loss spots, you can jump on them with shampoo and topicals right away.

When I gave Miss Zoomalot the syringes of oral med, I sat her upright against my knees so her head wasn't tilted right back. I aimed for the side of the mouth, if I could. That does sound scary that Emily choked. In your place, I would keep my eye on her because even though it sounds like she was able to cough it all up, she might not have been able to get rid of it all. I'm sorry your vet techs are not more supportive, they should be able to give you a practical demonstration. If I'm going through something new like this, I take mine to the vet and have the techs watch me to make sure I'm doing things right, no charge.

[sirrahbed]

Since the vet wants me to bathe Emily - I want to be compliant but wish the shampoo had fungicide in it to make me feel like it was more worth the trouble y'know? The Hexadene is available with miconazole but that is not what he sold me...I have only given cat-baths a handful of times and it isn't easy or fun is it.

Just a few minutes ago, Emily jumped up on my desk and let me pet her - I was so grateful! :) I still shudder at the thought of choking her. I think I squirted the last bit of liquid too far into her already-full mouth :( Now, I know I will be neurotic every time I give her the medicine. We have been wrapping her a towel and holding her close, so maybe just tipping the head will work - will try. I find myself spending so much time in the morning and evening dreading medication time even though I know it is to help her.

Lizzie - what was the newer fungicide you got at Costco? Do you remember? I would like to keep it in mind in the event that we need to treat anyone again. The Griseofulvin was $109. I did not realize that ringworm usually goes away on its own. But, I know I still want to treat Emily the best I can to minimize spreading the infection and to prevent more hairloss. I wish I had informed myself better going into this - but was so surprised to get the call that her ringworm culture was positive after a month. I hope the Program is effective because a couple doses sure would be tons less traumatic for cats. I am really glad that everyone is adult and healthy here.

I also read that if humans had not contacted ringworm by the time the cat becomes diagnosed - that they likely will not get it. I find that to be encouraging. We are all so hands-on here and my grandbabies are also here several times weekly. No humans have any signs. Fingers crossed again. I know that the ringwrm is minor compared to the truly ill cats I read about here, but I can't help being a concerned meowmie. ;)

[smokey the elder]

I crumbled up the Program and spiked their food. I think I gave it every two weeks.

[catmandu]

We are praying that the ringworm has been vanguished as its a royal pain in the neck,
I remember volunteering at the shelter where there was a series of communal cages and that was happening all the time.
Several times I had to take meds and give preventitive meds to my 2 Cats Pouncer and Scrappy.
2 Cats , imagine how long ago that was.
Good luck to you and your Clowder.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Gosh, Debbie, what a nightmore for poor little Emily and you! I sure hope nobody else gets it - 4 legged or 2!

Sounds like you're doing everything you can for her though, so keep up the good work and before you know it this will all be a bad dream that is behind you. :)