New NASA Ad

[dukedogsmom]

I got this in an email today. It said, "You know this was coming"

[sparks19]

lol oh my goodness

[critter crazy]

ROFLMAO!!! Ha ha ha ha ha!!:D :D :D

[lizbud]

Dave Letterman could make jokes about that for a week. :D He's already
used a lot of air time on her.

[Marigold2]

I feel so sorry for everyone involved. This woman was a hero and one bad lasph of judgement and all her good work is forgotten and she is made fun of. Nothing about this is funny. Everyone who is involved here is hurt.

[sparks19]

I feel so sorry for everyone involved. This woman was a hero and one bad lasph of judgement and all her good work is forgotten and she is made fun of. Nothing about this is funny. Everyone who is involved here is hurt.


One bad lapse in judgement? You classify what she did as one bad lapse in judgement? LOL boy I bet criminals are dying to have you on their jury. this was far more than a bad lapse in judgement. It wasn't like a split second decision made and then realized it was the wrong one. She had A LOT of time to think this over. NOT a lapse in judgement....

[wombat2u2004]

Whats a tang ????
Wombat

[critter crazy]

Whats a tang ????
Wombat
An orangs flavored drink, used bu Astronauts.
http://jeffatwood.typepad.com/atwoodzoo/images/tang.gif

[critter crazy]

One bad lapse in judgement? You classify what she did as one bad lapse in judgement? LOL boy I bet criminals are dying to have you on their jury. this was far more than a bad lapse in judgement. It wasn't like a split second decision made and then realized it was the wrong one. She had A LOT of time to think this over. NOT a lapse in judgement....
I completely agree! If a normal person had gone and done the same thing, no one would feel bad at all, and hoped they got the maximum punishment. She messed up big time, and now has to pay the price. Lapse of Judgement my arse. She completely thought the whole thing through, and now has to deal with her choice.

[wombat2u2004]

Now that I know what TANG is.....I will use that word often.
Wombat

[Marigold2]

Tang, tang ,tang tang. I was looking at all this woman did that was good not just for her family but her country. An intelligent, educated, brave, woman who should have therapy and a second chance. She is not some ganster, drug addict who is a repeat offended with no education. I looked at all she had done in her life, not just one small part of her life. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone needs help at least once or twice in her or his life. This woman can and should be given a second chance. She had done more for this country that most people ever will.

[Lady's Human]

Battery, attempted kidnapping, destruction of evidence, and the other sundry charges against her would have landed one of us "regular people" in jail. No bail, have a nice weekend with your cellmate.

Sorry, she's an officer in the military, and as such should also have military charges against her in addition to the civilian charges. Celebrity status should never equal special treatment.

[Marigold2]

I think more then anything she is in mental distress, she is not a cold mean killer, she is mentally ill and needs help. This is not a lifetime criminal this is a confused, ill woman of outstanding merit. When she stands in front of the judge I hope he looks at all the good she has done, not just the bad. How many of us have done something horrible, stupid, mean, crazy? Now imagine you get caught and the whole world knows your shame. So much pride, so much hard work and sacrifice and then in a moment or a week or a day you do something and it is all shot to hell. I don't believe that is how it should be. Good people do dumb things. Good people deserve a second chance, bad lifetime criminals do not. I am far from a bleeding heart, I believe in the death penalty. Should not the good we have done in our lives count or just those moments of ugliness? Who here would not like a second chance? Who here has accomplished as much as she did in their lives?

[critter crazy]

I think more then anything she is in mental distress, she is not a cold mean killer, she is mentally ill and needs help. This is not a lifetime criminal this is a confused, ill woman of outstanding merit. When she stands in front of the judge I hope he looks at all the good she has done, not just the bad. How many of us have done something horrible, stupid, mean, crazy? Now imagine you get caught and the whole world knows your shame. So much pride, so much hard work and sacrifice and then in a moment or a week or a day you do something and it is all shot to hell. I don't believe that is how it should be. Good people do dumb things. Good people deserve a second chance, bad lifetime criminals do not. I am far from a bleeding heart, I believe in the death penalty. Should not the good we have done in our lives count or just those moments of ugliness? Who here would not like a second chance? Who here has accomplished as much as she did in their lives?
But they do count! She is a first time offender, she is not going to get the same sentance, as a person who has done this numerous times! Judges do look at the person as a whole, and base sentencing on this fact. But she still deserves what she gets. She did a very stupid thing.

[wombat2u2004]

I think more then anything she is in mental distress, she is not a cold mean killer, she is mentally ill and needs help. This is not a lifetime criminal this is a confused, ill woman of outstanding merit. When she stands in front of the judge I hope he looks at all the good she has done, not just the bad. How many of us have done something horrible, stupid, mean, crazy? Now imagine you get caught and the whole world knows your shame. So much pride, so much hard work and sacrifice and then in a moment or a week or a day you do something and it is all shot to hell. I don't believe that is how it should be. Good people do dumb things. Good people deserve a second chance, bad lifetime criminals do not. I am far from a bleeding heart, I believe in the death penalty. Should not the good we have done in our lives count or just those moments of ugliness? Who here would not like a second chance? Who here has accomplished as much as she did in their lives?

Hmmmmmm......yes. I think I'm going to have to go with Marigold on this one.
The more I consider this....the more I see the sense in it.
Some people do a lot of good in this world, and usually for little or no reward.
But when they mess up...and those mess ups are only in line with other peoples expectations....then they are punished for it.
So where is the balance ????
I know what she did was wrong in the eyes of everyone....but who here can honestly say they have never done wrong ??? And were those wrongs discovered by others ??? Or did you simply get away with it. And did the punishment, if you received any....fit ther crime ???
From my readings of this particular case......the whole matter was simply a matter of the heart...the poor woman felt rejected, cheated on etc etc.
She is obviously crazy about this guy, and she has obviously done something quite stupid here.
So reading Marigolds post has made me sort of wake up to that.
I think this woman is REALLY in for it, not only from the law, but she will be probably ostracised for the rest of her life, her career gone, probably what remains of her family gone.....a bit harsh...don't you all think ???
Well perhaps we should just put her to death, as an example for all of those who would fall in love, and then break the law trying to defend that.
What about the guy ??? He gets away scot free...right ??? And what part did he actually play in this....I can only guess. Wow !!!! He's famous now, got a name for himself, can go fly his little spaceship, and hit on as many women as he likes....married or not...it seems not to be his issue.
Fair ???? I think not.
Wombat

[dukedogsmom]

No one's debating that all of us have done some wrong in our lives. However, this goes way beyond "doing wrong". As far as the man is concerned, he didn't drive 900 miles nonstop to try to abuct, etc, whatever she planned on doing. And since she has had all of that education and training, then she should know more than ever the difference of right and wrong. We all have urges to do things we know we shouldn't. But that doesn't mean we all just cut loose and do it and who cares about the consequences.

[wombat2u2004]

No one's debating that all of us have done some wrong in our lives. However, this goes way beyond "doing wrong". As far as the man is concerned, he didn't drive 900 miles nonstop to try to abuct, etc, whatever she planned on doing. And since she has had all of that education and training, then she should know more than ever the difference of right and wrong. We all have urges to do things we know we shouldn't. But that doesn't mean we all just cut loose and do it and who cares about the consequences.

Well perhaps we should be debating that. Because this woman has been made a spectacle of.....have you ????
And how does it go BEYOND doing wrong ??? For driving 900 miles to confront her lovers mistress ??? Wow...thats REALLY wrong. I bet that happens all the time in the USA, and you wouldn't even know the names of the people doing it..
And did she intend to abduct or kill or maim (because she had so called weapons on her person) ??? I think it's all circumstantial evidence. The media has got hold of this, and as usual have hyped it up to do TWO things.....to make themselves money/fill their pages up and to give Americans a scapegoat !!!!!
Nope...I don't think it's right what they did to her...in my eyes she has done very little wrong. They should leave her alone.
Wombat

[Lady's Human]

She was not made a spectacle of, she made a spectacle of herself. She violated the oath she took as an officer in the US military. She threw millions of dollars that NASA has spent to train her down the drain.

Sorry, ZERO sympathy.

[sparks19]

She was not made a spectacle of, she made a spectacle of herself. She violated the oath she took as an officer in the US military. She threw millions of dollars that NASA has spent to train her down the drain.

Sorry, ZERO sympathy.


I am with you on this one. Sure I have made mistakes.... but I have never assaulted anyone.... I have never tried to kidnap anyone.... technically I have never done anything truly unlawful. Especially not to this magnitude. LOL except I stole a marker when I was a kid and I was SO scared of getting caught i NEVER did it again. If I had I would have had to pay the price for it... such as anyone should. What point is there in having laws if they don't want to enforce them because someone is a nice person or has done some good in their life. To me.... that does not excuse you from obeying the law. PERIOD.

She deserves to be punished for what she did..... I don't care about her social standing.... She obviously didn't care either or she wouldn't have done what she did.

I agree... she needs HELP.... and a lot of it. but she can get that help while institutionalized. she should not be allowed to roam free and prey on women who are fooling around with someone she thinks belongs to her. SORRY.... I have been cheated on before.... you know what I did. I MOVED ON.... I have even MET some of the women later in life that my SO cheated on me with. I'm not mad at them.... He is the one that hurt me.... not the girl. So I just left him and moved on with my life. What better revenge than to be living my life out to the fullest and let him see that he can't break me. SORRY There is no excuse for that.

If it were any "normal" person they would have to pay the price. it is NOT acceptable behaviour from anyone... especially from someone as "educated" and "smart" as herself.

Driving 900 miles non stop is NOT a lapse in judgement. perhaps driving down the block might be.... but when you have THAT many hours to think about what you are about to do.... that becomes premeditation. PERIOD

[Pam]

She was not made a spectacle of, she made a spectacle of herself. She violated the oath she took as an officer in the US military. She threw millions of dollars that NASA has spent to train her down the drain.

Sorry, ZERO sympathy.

Agree completely! *To whom much is given, much is required.* That applies to many things in life whether it be status, possessions, money, etc. She was in a different position than most of us, a very public position. Therefore her *sin,* when committed, was on public display. Her action was disgraceful and she and she alone is responsible. As far as the man's responsibility, he did nothing unlawful (except of course in the eyes of his wife :p ). Sorry, Wombat, usually I am completely in agreement with your take on things but not this time. :)

[Marigold2]

The reason I feel so bad for this lady is because I feel she is ill. The look on her face and the things she did were so out of character. I believe she had a mental breakdown. Perhaps seeing three friends die in the Challenger explostion started the process. Too much sorrow, fear, grief, shock. Perhaps mental illness is just a disease that was growing in her body, schizophrenic perhaps. I don't think she would have done this if she was well. That is my point really. I feel she needs help mentally and yes she should be held accountable to the degree of sanity. Hopefully someday she will be able to work again at NASA and contribute with her keen intelligence. I just think her illness overtook her. People who are truly mentally ill, don't make rational decisions and what she did was not rational especially for one so intelligent. This was not just a love affair gone wrong, this is a woman who is mentally ill and lost touch with reality, it is sad all around. My knickers are now untwisted.

[lady_zana]

She may have had a break down but I do not think she is mentally ill. Not in the terms of someone who geninuinely suffers from mental illness.

I myself suffer from clinical depression and OCD and there's nothing that "gets my Irish up" (a good day to use that expression perhaps! :p ) than when someone claims mental illness for an excuse for their actions when they probably don't actually have one.

Yes, some people DO have mental illnesses and can't help what they do. On an extreme example, that man in the news who recently raped and murdered that poor girl (in Florida I think) told the parole officers that he had a mental illness and if released, he would harm someone again. Having a mental illness doesn't excuse his actions completely however. Such is the case with Andrea Yates who drowned her children. She had horrible mental problems for years that her husband and religion compounded until she snapped. She is a woman who needs to be in a hospital, not a jail.

Other people claim to have a mental illness because if they are "crazy" they can avoid going to jail. To me, that demeans everyone who suffers from mental illness and enforces the stigma of having one so people who do need help won't get it because they are afraid of looking "crazy."

And even if she does have a mental illness (which I don't believe)I don't think it would be schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is rare diease and is horrible to those who suffer from it. If she was schizophrenic, while it's possible the signs wouldn't have emerged earlier, they most likely would have. There were no "voices" in her head telling her to do as she did in this case. She did it on her own, of her own free will.

[wombat2u2004]

Sorry folks.....not agreeing here.
The punishment is way overboard to fit such a small deal crime.
Wom

[sparks19]

Sorry folks.....not agreeing here.
The punishment is way overboard to fit such a small deal crime.
Wom


Well than we will just have to agree to disagree ;)

[critter crazy]

Well than we will just have to agree to disagree ;)
Exactly!!:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Battery, attempted kidnapping, destruction of evidence, and the other sundry charges against her would have landed one of us "regular people" in jail. No bail, have a nice weekend with your cellmate.

Sorry, she's an officer in the military, and as such should also have military charges against her in addition to the civilian charges. Celebrity status should never equal special treatment.


I just hope she gets the same jury (or whatever they call it in the military) as all those officers involved in Abu Gahraib....

[sparks19]

Exactly!!:D


:D

Although I don't see how this is just a small deal crime. BUT then again ... I am of the frame of mind that intention is enough proof for me. sorry but people don't just drive around 900 miles with potentially deadly weapons in their cars for fun and just HAPPEN to run into a person they have a grudge against and spray them in the face. That to me shows there was some sort of ill intent there. Luckily the other woman was able to flee.... I might be willing to concede that attempted murder might not fly (although they feel strongly enough to believe it will) but DEFINATELY attempted kidnapping at the least. There is no excuse for that kind of thing.... driving over 900 miles shows a frightening amount of commitment to what she wanted to do.

mentally ill or not... she has shown potential to be quite dangerous... and persistent. I feel bad for her husband and her children. Luckily she didn't turn her delusions on them.

[wombat2u2004]

Oh piffle !!!! ""I am of the frame of mind that intention is enough proof for me. sorry but people don't just drive around 900 miles with potentially deadly weapons in their cars"".
Intention is proof ???? Since when ??? Mens rea has to be proven by a court of law, it cannot EVER be assumed. and as there was no use of those so called weapons, the court would find that very difficult indeed.

And potentially deadly weapons......oh come on.......I carry a tyre lever in my car, that's a potentially dangerous weapon.

Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Well than we will just have to agree to disagree ;)

Well yes....I agree that you disagree...LOL
Wom

[sparks19]

Oh piffle !!!! ""I am of the frame of mind that intention is enough proof for me. sorry but people don't just drive around 900 miles with potentially deadly weapons in their cars"".
Intention is proof ???? Since when ??? Mens rea has to be proven by a court of law, it cannot EVER be assumed. and as there was no use of those so called weapons, the court would find that very difficult indeed.

And potentially deadly weapons......oh come on.......I carry a tyre lever in my car, that's a potentially dangerous weapon.

Wombat


Actually she did use one weapon.

Also there were other things in the vehicle. Again all of those things coupled with PERSONAL emails between the girl she was going after and the guy she "didn't have a romantic relationship with" then later found emails from her saying she "loved him". So she not only hacked into their email... which is unlawful.... she assaulted the woman with pepper spray... which if I recall correctly is also illegal to possess (although I do not think it should be personally but should only be used in self defense.) She had many items that suggested kidnapping or worse. She followed this woman until she was alone at her vehicle... wore a disguise.... assaulted her.... luckily the woman was able to flee. There is nothing rational about that... nothing there that tells me her intentions were anything but irrational and potentially dangerous. No just having something in your vehicle may not be intention enough... but put those things together with all the other facts.... and you have a criminal... IMO.

So... no ... while just the mere possession is not enough to suggest foul intent.... those possessions put together with everything else she did.... is plenty for me to put her on trial.

[Puckstop31]

Tang, tang ,tang tang. I was looking at all this woman did that was good not just for her family but her country. An intelligent, educated, brave, woman who should have therapy and a second chance. She is not some ganster, drug addict who is a repeat offended with no education. I looked at all she had done in her life, not just one small part of her life. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone needs help at least once or twice in her or his life. This woman can and should be given a second chance. She had done more for this country that most people ever will.

MISTAKES??? Pre-meditated attempted first degree murder is a mistake?

Therapy??? For what?

Action = Consequence. Excuses are like a-holes, everybody has got one and they all stink.

[critter crazy]

I have never done anything wrong in my life, and have served my country for over 10 yrs. But If I went out and did exactly what she did, I would NOT get a second Chance!! phhhhtttt....she made her bed, now she has to lay in it!

[sparks19]

The key here is PREMEDITATION. just because she failed doesn't mean we should cut her a break and send her on her way.

[LoudLou]

I want to know what kind of car she was driving that could go for 900 miles with no pitstops?

[sparks19]

I want to know what kind of car she was driving that could go for 900 miles with no pitstops?


A darn good one :D

Maybe she did make gas stops..... or maybe she filled a bunch of gas cans pre trip. who knows

But it would be nice to know what kind of car gets such good mileage :D

Or she has one of those hybrids and just drove under 40 MPH the whole way so she didn't use gas lol

[wombat2u2004]

The key here is PREMEDITATION. just because she failed doesn't mean we should cut her a break and send her on her way.

Premeditation ??? What did she think she was going to do ???
And failed ??? What did she fail at ???
These are only your assumptions.....based on flimsy so called GREAT evidence....like a number of objects in her car, and the fact that she was hurt enough to drive 900 miles, and a few emails between lovers.
So far all I have heard about premeditation is what YOU think she was going to do....and of course what the MEDIA have suggested.
But yes...I agree that they shouldn't give her a break and cut her free, but how about doing that in line with what she has actually done, and not in line of what people believe she would have done.
I hold to my original idea that all of this is only to find a scapegoat for American people to gloat over. Yeah....she is a clever and successful girl....lets just cut her down.
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

MISTAKES??? Pre-meditated attempted first degree murder is a mistake?

Therapy??? For what?

Action = Consequence. Excuses are like a-holes, everybody has got one and they all stink.

Ohhh....puleeeeeeeeze Puckstop !!!!
Premeditated attempted first degree murder ????
May as well get her for premeditated drug running to, due to the fact that she owned a car.
And therapy ??? Well here we go again !!!!! How do you know she doesn't need therapy ??? You wouldn't have a clue !!!!!
Geez....we are all doing a lot of guesswork today.....and we've got her all but hung already.
Wombat

[Puckstop31]

Ohhh....puleeeeeeeeze Puckstop !!!!
Premeditated attempted first degree murder ????
May as well get her for premeditated drug running to, due to the fact that she owned a car.
And therapy ??? Well here we go again !!!!! How do you know she doesn't need therapy ??? You wouldn't have a clue !!!!!
Geez....we are all doing a lot of guesswork today.....and we've got her all but hung already.
Wombat

Look, I read two articles about this. I skipped over the biased stuff and looked at the facts. After thinking about it and realizing the equipment she had on her at the time she committed the crime....

She knew exactly what she was doing/going to do. In my opinion, she was going to murder that person. Hence what she ended up doing was pre-meditated ATTEMPTED First Degree Murder.

Fine, give her therapy after she is in jail. Will we ever stop making excuses for bad behavior in our society?

[wombat2u2004]

Look, I read two articles about this. I skipped over the biased stuff and looked at the facts. After thinking about it and realizing the equipment she had on her at the time she committed the crime....

She knew exactly what she was doing/going to do. In my opinion, she was going to murder that person. Hence what she ended up doing was pre-meditated ATTEMPTED First Degree Murder.

Fine, give her therapy after she is in jail. Will we ever stop making excuses for bad behavior in our society?

The facts ???? Ohhhh......you mean what you read. What the media reported...yes ??? Come on now Puck.....you should know better than that.
For your information.....the reason why she has been charged with premeditated first degree murder (but not convicted mind you...just charged) was due to the fact that the public prosecutor did not like what the judge originally doled out to her.....nope....not enough to give her a bail and anklet condition. So they trumped up another charge so that she would be locked up...based on circumstantial evidence mind you.
It isn't my place, or yours, or anyone else's on this board to condemn anyone on circumstantial evidence. I don't care if the lady had a cannon on her...it doesn't send the message to me that she was going to use it.
You know what is going to happen to her ???? I'll tell you........all these silly little bunch of charges that the prosecutors have painstakingly gone through their law manuals to gather will all be quashed. Yep....she will get assault for the pepper spray....thats it.
And in my opinion.........that is all she deserves.
I feel very sorry for this lady, she hasn't committed any crime other than petty assault.....probably no more than any of us here on this board have done in their lives. I've punched a guy out for stealing my girlfriend in my younger days, and I haven't been nailed to a cross for that.
It's a little thing called BREAKDOWN old mate....I'm pretty sure that most people here know what I am talking about.
Wombat

[sparks19]

Ok Wombat... what to you consititutes premeditated attempted murder or kidnapping for that matter? What kind of proof do you need to suggest that it was premeditated attempted murder?

Actually I can't say I have EVER just punched someone out or assaulted someone. I have NEVER started a fight in my life. I may have finished a few but I NEVER threw the first punch. lol. I'm just not of the frame of mind that anyone that just wants to start a fight with me is worth breaking a bone or getting a record over. I will always talk first... sometimes that works and gives the person enough time to think this might not be a good idea. other times I talk and wait for them to throw the first punch.... my punch after that becomes self defense :D

Driving 900 miles to assault someone, TO ME, is not just petty assault..... that shows A LOT of premeditation. The woman in that car feared for her life and even though she couldn't really see she managed to get her car into gear and get some help. AGAIN, I am willing to concede the attempted murder thing.... but petty assault? not so much IMO.

If I drove 900 miles.... put on a disguise and stalked someone.... followed them to their car and then assaulted them.... I would not get a petty assault charge lol

P.S- YOu shouldn't have been angry at that guy for "stealing" your g/f.... you should have been angry at your g/f for being too cowardly to tell you she was leaving. No one truly "steals" a b/f or g/f from you.... it is just that the b/f or g/f was a coward and didn't want to tell you right away that they wanted out.

[Edwina's Secretary]

How interesting.....

The same people who have accused the media of incompetence, inaccuracy and even blatant distortion...are now determined of the guilt of someone based on a reading/listening of the same media.

And one who reminded us, when accusations were made of service personnel in Iraq....the presumption of innocence....now has this person on the rocks!

I say, let a jury of her peers make a decision based on the evidence presented in a court of law.

And I have found the media in this case more interested in her sanitation methods than anything else. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[sparks19]

How interesting.....

The same people who have accused the media of incompetence, inaccuracy and even blatant distortion...are now determined of the guilt of someone based on a reading/listening of the same media.

And one who reminded us, when accusations were made of service personnel in Iraq....the presumption of innocence....now has this person on the rocks!

I say, let a jury of her peers make a decision based on the evidence presented in a court of law.

And I have found the media in this case more interested in her sanitation methods than anything else. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

One day your eyes are gonna get stuck like that ;)

[Lady's Human]

ES,

There's a difference between the Marines who were charged for what happened at Haditha and what has happened with Cpt. Nowak.

CPT Nowak was apprehended immediately after assaulting someone in a parking lot. There are no major differences in the reports of what happened, and the majority of information in the stories about it came from a press conference with the sheriff's department.

The Haditha incident, however, was reported and investigated months after it happened, and was based on information from people who have no reason to give positive information about US forces actions in Iraq. The Press and some in Congress were pushing for indictments before the official investigation (which was ongoing at the time the story broke) was completed, as in before the facts of the case were known. While the subsequent investigation has shown that indeed there were murders committed, the pressure from the press and Congress almost guaranteed a conviction before the evidence had even been reviewed. Those Marines would have likely been convicted of SOMETHING regardless of the facts in the case. If they had been acquitted of all charges, even if the investigation had shown they did nothing wrong, there would have been hell to pay.

Comparing what CPT Nowak did with the Haditha murders is comparing apples to oranges, especially when you consider the convoluted nature of the military justice system.

[wombat2u2004]

One day your eyes are gonna get stuck like that ;)

Hehehehe.....maybe it's one of those twitch things some people get. LOLOL
Wom

[lizbud]

The facts ???? Ohhhh......you mean what you read. What the media reported...yes ??? Come on now Puck.....you should know better than that.
For your information.....the reason why she has been charged with premeditated first degree murder (but not convicted mind you...just charged) was due to the fact that the public prosecutor did not like what the judge originally doled out to her.....nope....not enough to give her a bail and anklet condition. So they trumped up another charge so that she would be locked up...based on circumstantial evidence mind you.
It isn't my place, or yours, or anyone else's on this board to condemn anyone on circumstantial evidence. I don't care if the lady had a cannon on her...it doesn't send the message to me that she was going to use it.
You know what is going to happen to her ???? I'll tell you........all these silly little bunch of charges that the prosecutors have painstakingly gone through their law manuals to gather will all be quashed. Yep....she will get assault for the pepper spray....thats it.
And in my opinion.........that is all she deserves.
I feel very sorry for this lady, she hasn't committed any crime other than petty assault.....probably no more than any of us here on this board have done in their lives. I've punched a guy out for stealing my girlfriend in my younger days, and I haven't been nailed to a cross for that.
It's a little thing called BREAKDOWN old mate....I'm pretty sure that most people here know what I am talking about.
Wombat


Wombat, I don't think this kid has lived long enough to realise how
adults think. To live a life and never need forgiveness. How extraordinary.

[wombat2u2004]

Ok Wombat... what to you consititutes premeditated attempted murder or kidnapping for that matter? What kind of proof do you need to suggest that it was premeditated attempted murder?

Actually I can't say I have EVER just punched someone out or assaulted someone. I have NEVER started a fight in my life. I may have finished a few but I NEVER threw the first punch. lol. I'm just not of the frame of mind that anyone that just wants to start a fight with me is worth breaking a bone or getting a record over. I will always talk first... sometimes that works and gives the person enough time to think this might not be a good idea. other times I talk and wait for them to throw the first punch.... my punch after that becomes self defense :D

Driving 900 miles to assault someone, TO ME, is not just petty assault..... that shows A LOT of premeditation. The woman in that car feared for her life and even though she couldn't really see she managed to get her car into gear and get some help. AGAIN, I am willing to concede the attempted murder thing.... but petty assault? not so much IMO.

If I drove 900 miles.... put on a disguise and stalked someone.... followed them to their car and then assaulted them.... I would not get a petty assault charge lol

P.S- YOu shouldn't have been angry at that guy for "stealing" your g/f.... you should have been angry at your g/f for being too cowardly to tell you she was leaving. No one truly "steals" a b/f or g/f from you.... it is just that the b/f or g/f was a coward and didn't want to tell you right away that they wanted out.

Murder ??? Oh my God Sparky. She probably just wanted to confront her adversery.
Now about this 900 mile thing, the real point here is..."Would a rational person in this situation do what she did ???" I think not. This woman has had a breakdown, and a very serious one at that, and that has caused her to become irrational.
It's interesting.....I phoned my daughter last night, and discussed this particular case with her. For the record, my daughter is a forensic psychologist, and she sorts out people like this on a daily basis. According to my daughter, we have these little chemicals in our brain that sometimes go out of whack, it's called a chemical inbalance. I'm sure I won't have to give you a lecture about the causes of that or it's consequences....you know what I'm talking about. But the true crux of the matter is that it happens more markedly, and it's affects are more obvious, in those people who are under a great deal of stress and anxiety. Now this lady has been through a marriage breakup...yes ??? And I'm sure this lady has not achieved what she has in life by being plain old lazy, or being stupid. Her particular career would have it's fair share of stress.... the load on her must be very great. I believe that this woman has already shown the world what kind of responsible and intelligent person she is.
Her actions, are completely out of character with who she really is.
This is what happens when emotion overides logic.
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Wombat, I don't think this kid has lived long enough to realise how
adults think. To live a life and never need forgiveness. How extraordinary.

I know Lizbud.....but we have to teach teach teach...LOL
Wom

[sparks19]

Murder ??? Oh my God Sparky. She probably just wanted to confront her adversery.
Now about this 900 mile thing, the real point here is..."Would a rational person in this situation do what she did ???" I think not. This woman has had a breakdown, and a very serious one at that, and that has caused her to become irrational.
It's interesting.....I phoned my daughter last night, and discussed this particular case with her. For the record, my daughter is a forensic psychologist, and she sorts out people like this on a daily basis. According to my daughter, we have these little chemicals in our brain that sometimes go out of whack, it's called a chemical inbalance. I'm sure I won't have to give you a lecture about the causes of that or it's consequences....you know what I'm talking about. But the true crux of the matter is that it happens more markedly, and it's affects are more obvious, in those people who are under a great deal of stress and anxiety. Now this lady has been through a marriage breakup...yes ??? And I'm sure this lady has not achieved what she has in life by being plain old lazy, or being stupid. Her particular career would have it's fair share of stress.... the load on her must be very great. I believe that this woman has already shown the world what kind of responsible and intelligent person she is.
Her actions, are completely out of character with who she really is.
This is what happens when emotion overides logic.
Wombat


Well I didn't read anywhere that her marriage was ending but if it was... it might have something to do with her fooling around with other men.... maybe??!!

Lots of people are under stress and anxiety... it does not excuse that type of behaviour. and JUST for the record... no one accused her of being stupid... many people that hatch these kinds of plans are very very smart. hey serial killers are often geniuses. now I am not comparing her to a serial killer but it does not take a stupid person to commit a crime or to have a pre meditated plan. But I am just not willing to say... well she was under a lot of stress so lets just allow her to stalk and assault women. Emotion can be a powerful thing.... but everyone else seems to be able to keep theirs in check without hurting people. Those who cannot control their emotions need to face the consequences. So they just chalk it up to emotions and "imbalance" so what happens the next time she has a dillusion and her emotions and stress take her over? Should we just say "ohhh poor baby... have a lollipop" I don't think so.

[wombat2u2004]

Sparks19 wrote ""Ok Wombat... what to you consititutes premeditated attempted murder or kidnapping for that matter? What kind of proof do you need to suggest that it was premeditated attempted murder?"

I cite the following extract from the casenotes.
People v Moore (Court of Appeal of the State of California. Case No.C036773)
"To constitute willful, deliberate, and premeditated attempted murder, the would-be slayer must weigh and consider the question of killing and the reasons for and against such a choice and, having in mind the consequences, decides to kill and makes a direct but ineffectual act to kill another human being"

Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Well I didn't read anywhere that her marriage was ending but if it was... it might have something to do with her fooling around with other men.... maybe??!!

Lots of people are under stress and anxiety... it does not excuse that type of behaviour. and JUST for the record... no one accused her of being stupid... many people that hatch these kinds of plans are very very smart. hey serial killers are often geniuses. now I am not comparing her to a serial killer but it does not take a stupid person to commit a crime or to have a pre meditated plan. But I am just not willing to say... well she was under a lot of stress so lets just allow her to stalk and assault women. Emotion can be a powerful thing.... but everyone else seems to be able to keep theirs in check without hurting people. Those who cannot control their emotions need to face the consequences. So they just chalk it up to emotions and "imbalance" so what happens the next time she has a dillusion and her emotions and stress take her over? Should we just say "ohhh poor baby... have a lollipop" I don't think so.

But Sparksy....I'm not excusing her behaviour. I believe she deserves whatever the law throws at her for her crime.
Edwinas Secretary hit the nail on the head a couple of posts ago, by stating that she is to be tried by a court of law....I couldn't agree more !!!!
But what I DON'T agree with, is all this hype about murder....premediated or whatever. These charges have been cooked up by public prosecutors, because that is what public prosecutors do !!!!! And to have someone on the stand who has some sort of standing in the community is nothing else but an added opportunity to them to show the world that they can do their job. They have made an absolute spectacle out of this lady. They are accusing her of all kinds of goodies, as I have stated previously, out of all kinds of so called circumstantial evidence. This has all been blown up way out of proportion.
"" Hey look people....we have a new witch this week....she has been caught with a few herbs in her hip pocket....lets burn her !!!"" "" On second thoughts, she's the governors wife, lets make a spectacle of her first, and then burn her. ""
Geez.......give the poor girl a break....she's been thru enough....she hasn't done even near what she has been accused of.
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

"""ohhh poor baby... have a lollipop" I don't think so."""
Perhaps a few coloured beads ??? LOL
Wom

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES,

There's a difference between the Marines who were charged for what happened at Haditha and what has happened with Cpt. Nowak.

CPT Nowak was apprehended immediately after assaulting someone in a parking lot. There are no major differences in the reports of what happened, and the majority of information in the stories about it came from a press conference with the sheriff's department.

The Haditha incident, however, was reported and investigated months after it happened, and was based on information from people who have no reason to give positive information about US forces actions in Iraq. The Press and some in Congress were pushing for indictments before the official investigation (which was ongoing at the time the story broke) was completed, as in before the facts of the case were known. While the subsequent investigation has shown that indeed there were murders committed, the pressure from the press and Congress almost guaranteed a conviction before the evidence had even been reviewed. Those Marines would have likely been convicted of SOMETHING regardless of the facts in the case. If they had been acquitted of all charges, even if the investigation had shown they did nothing wrong, there would have been hell to pay.

Comparing what CPT Nowak did with the Haditha murders is comparing apples to oranges, especially when you consider the convoluted nature of the military justice system.

So....in her case...no presumption of innocence? I thought everybody gets that...apples and oranges?

[Lady's Human]

Presumption of innocence takes on a slightly different meaning when one is arrested immediately after the fact.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Presumption of innocence takes on a slightly different meaning when one is arrested immediately after the fact.


So she doesn't get the full protection of the constitution? Ouch! I didn't realize that....

How long after the fact does one need to be arrested in order to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise?

[wombat2u2004]

She is presumed innocent until she is found guilty by a court of law.
Every single one of us in the same situation would have a presumption of innocence.
It's the negating of the presumption for bail that is the reason why she is locked up. And that only came into effect when the public prosecutors laid the additional charge of attempted murder against her. The public prosecuters know of this, so thats why they have laid those additional charges. Why would they want to lock her up ???? She has a family, children, she has never offended before....and I'm certain that she would never have overstepped her original bail conditions. Is she a danger to the public ???? Or her so called victim ??? I don't believe so. I believe that woman is very remorseful, and has realised exactly what she has done, and is paying already with her soul big time. Her life from that moment on is probably in ruins......lets just convict her of what she has actually done...assault, and be on our way.
Wombat

[Lady's Human]

The main objection that seems to be being raised is the tone of the discussion surrounding CPT Nowak.

I objected to the tone of the discussion of the marines at Haditha because the case was not clear, facts were at best fuzzy, the military investigation was ongoing, and the press and Congress already had them tried and convicted.

I have no objection to the tone of the discussion in this case as the case is fairly clear cut, (the assault charges, in the least) and most pertinent facts in the case were released by law enforcement in a press conference shortly after the incident and arrest.

Is she entitled to constitutional protection? Absolutely. Special treatment? No.

[Puckstop31]

The facts ???? Ohhhh......you mean what you read. What the media reported...yes ??? Come on now Puck.....you should know better than that.

Sigh.... I did my best to pick the factoids out of all the spin. I formed an opinion. What else is one to do these days with a heavily biased (in both directions) media?


For your information.....the reason why she has been charged with premeditated first degree murder (but not convicted mind you...just charged) was due to the fact that the public prosecutor did not like what the judge originally doled out to her.....nope....not enough to give her a bail and anklet condition. So they trumped up another charge so that she would be locked up...based on circumstantial evidence mind you.

Oh yeah? And where did you get your information? <poke poke> LOL



It isn't my place, or yours, or anyone else's on this board to condemn anyone on circumstantial evidence.

Sure it is... ;) That whole First Amendment thing. I might be wrong but I can holler it at the top of my lungs.


It's a little thing called BREAKDOWN old mate....I'm pretty sure that most people here know what I am talking about.
Wombat

Fine... She is having a breakdown. That does not excuse her actions. I kinda had a bit of a breakdown a few months ago. You didn't see me out assautling people, even though I REALLY wanted to sometimes.

All I am trying to say is I am sick and tired of all the excuses we make for people anymore. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

[wombat2u2004]

Sigh.... I did my best to pick the factoids out of all the spin. I formed an opinion. What else is one to do these days with a heavily biased (in both directions) media?



Oh yeah? And where did you get your information? <poke poke> LOL




Sure it is... ;) That whole First Amendment thing. I might be wrong but I can holler it at the top of my lungs.



Fine... She is having a breakdown. That does not excuse her actions. I kinda had a bit of a breakdown a few months ago. You didn't see me out assautling people, even though I REALLY wanted to sometimes.

All I am trying to say is I am sick and tired of all the excuses we make for people anymore. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

Ah well.....you have your opinions (and I'm not here to change those), and I have mine.
Wombat

[Edwina's Secretary]

She is not the first military officer to get in a sticky wicket, nor is she the first woman scorned to be accused of some real stupid revenge.

This is big news because she is an astronaut and because she wore a diaper... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I object to the tone that she should not get the same treatment anyone in a sad similar local story would.

She didn't do this "in the line of duty" but as a civilian. She gets to be that too.

[Lady's Human]

If you are in the military on active service, especially if you are an officer, there is no such thing as "off duty". Crimes committed off duty are normally prosecuted by both the military and civilian authorities.

[wombat2u2004]

She is not the first military officer to get in a sticky wicket, nor is she the first woman scorned to be accused of some real stupid revenge.

This is big news because she is an astronaut and because she wore a diaper... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I object to the tone that she should not get the same treatment anyone in a sad similar local story would.

She didn't do this "in the line of duty" but as a civilian. She gets to be that too.

Oh yes....she will cop it under the provisions of Article 134.
And if that is the case, then so should her boyfriend, he is most certainly in breach of that article to.
No wonder he is laying low !!!!
wombat

[Edwina's Secretary]

If you are in the military on active service, especially if you are an officer, there is no such thing as "off duty". Crimes committed off duty are normally prosecuted by both the military and civilian authorities.


Rather selectively enforced......

[Lady's Human]

Yes. Far more frequently enlisted soldiers bear more of the brunt of the UCMJ than officers.

Time to reverse that trend, starting, say, now?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I still want to see those responsible for tarnishing the reputation of the US...those who supervised (a civilian term I realize) the abuse of detainnees in Abu Gahriab, et al, held accountable.... really held accountable.....

then I'll worry about a love triangle....and isn't adultery against the officer code... she didn't commit it alone?

(make no mistake...I think she should be tried and pay whatever penalty the jury deems....I just don't think she should get "negative" special treatment anymore than she should get "positive" special treatment.)

[Lady's Human]

Adultery and many, many other things in the same realm are against the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Also:

Being beyond a 200 mile radius from the appointed place of duty without official leave or a pass

Conduct unbecoming an officer

Conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline

Disobeying a Lawful Order

All of which can be prosecuted without affecting whatever civilian charges she actually gets tried for.

[Lady's Human]

BTW, ES, the personnel in charge of Abu Ghirab have been investigated and punished within the limits of the power of the investigating authority. You're not calling for unconstitutionally re-trying them on the same charges, are you?

[Edwina's Secretary]

been investigated and punished within the limits of the power of the investigating authority

"Them that has" always get, don't they?