In America????

[Edwina's Secretary]

I am sure some of you will say...this woman should not have had so many children...she should have done this or done that....I am not my brother's keeper, etc.

But I think it is sad that in a country where so many have so much...a child dies for want of basic medical/dental care....

This is also a case when an ounce of prevention would have save the taxpayers a pound of....well... unsuccessful cure....

Dentist (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17372104/)

[Ceph]

I wonder why she didnt take him to Washington Hospital Center (Children's is part of the Hospital Center) earlier. They have programs there....I should know...I was a receptionist in the Eye Clinic for almost 6 years. If you have no way to pay or no covereage, the executive director can sign a piece of paperwork to get you in to see the doctor....I know this too because my mom is the eye clinic exec. director, and I brought patients back to her all the time....Its why the dang hospitals and their clinics always comes out in the red.

[Daisy and Delilah]

What a horrible story!! :mad: :( :mad: It's not just incredibly sad, but, just plain incredible! I have to wonder why this would ever happen in this country too. That poor kid. :( :mad: :( :mad:

[JenBKR]

Wow....that's so sad. What that poor mother must be going through. It would probably never even occur to me that a toothache could do that to someone. I can only imagine how difficult it would be for someone barely scraping by, with no dental insurance, to find the $80 that was needed.

[sparks19]

Wow....that's so sad. What that poor mother must be going through. It would probably never even occur to me that a toothache could do that to someone. I can only imagine how difficult it would be for someone barely scraping by, with no dental insurance, to find the $80 that was needed.


I wouldn't have ever thought of that either. Gosh... I remember as a kid lying to my mom about toothaches just so I wouldn't have to go to the dentist. Now I have a tooth that is mostly filling.... to think that could have been much more serious. who would have thought.

In Canada, Dental is not covered by our OHIP. You have to get it through your work or a private insurance company. Luckily my step dads work covered half of my braces so we only (pfft only lol) had to pay $2000 instead of $4000. My dad's insurance only covered $1000 for my wisdom teeth so I had to pay the extra $1000. Dental can be very pricey.

[CathyBogart]

Do you remember when we had a thread here about a boy whose teeth were so rotten he was taken from his mother.....and most of the people said taking him away from her was overreacting?

This is why that boy was taken away.

RIP Deamonte. :(

[Argranade]

OMG that's horrible! :(

I'm scared now! I have like not a tooth ache but when I eat sweets 2 of my teeth hurt, this can't kill me right .. what are the chances?

I'm going to the dentist this week 0.o

[Marigold2]

We have no dental either because my husband works for a small company that is too cheap to get dental. Poor people get Medicaid middle class get the shaft. It's sad but true. Dental work is very expensive, and not everyone can pay $3000.00 for a bridge. However if it was this bad for the poor kid the parents need to step up more.

[wombat2u2004]

Wow....what is up with your dentists ??? What is up with your SYSTEM ????
It's greed....right ????
I had a wisdom tooth extracted only a few months ago by my dentist....a bloody good dentist to.
The cost ??? A whopping great $150.
And this dentist is rich rich rich.
Now really folks........US dentists can justify the charges they make ???
If they can, then they must be magicians.
Well...I guess if you all keep paying....they are just gonna keep taking.
Wombat

[Edwina's Secretary]

We have no dental either because my husband works for a small company that is too cheap to get dental. Poor people get Medicaid middle class get the shaft. It's sad but true. Dental work is very expensive, and not everyone can pay $3000.00 for a bridge. However if it was this bad for the poor kid the parents need to step up more.

I think you miss the point.

1. It is diffiuclt to find a dentist who will accept you as a new patient unless you have dental insurance. I know because we did not have it until this year. She, of course, did not have it. Dentists did not want to accept her son as a patient because she was on medicaid.

2. She DID step up more...the dentist would not see them.

3. You cannot afford a bridge. Her son died. And YOU get the shaft???

[lizbud]

I think you miss the point.

1. It is diffiuclt to find a dentist who will accept you as a new patient unless you have dental insurance. I know because we did not have it until this year. She, of course, did not have it. Dentists did not want to accept her son as a patient because she was on medicaid.

2. She DID step up more...the dentist would not see them.

3. You cannot afford a bridge. Her son died. And YOU get the shaft???


It is sad, that a child died because of one bad tooth. :( I don't think a lot
of people can relate to this families poverty.Their everyday poverty and
that's sad too.

[Catlady711]

While it's sad that things like this do happen in this day and age.

This is also a good time to remind ourselves how important dental care is, not only for us but also our 4 legged furry children too!

[wombat2u2004]

I think you miss the point.

1. It is diffiuclt to find a dentist who will accept you as a new patient unless you have dental insurance. I know because we did not have it until this year. She, of course, did not have it. Dentists did not want to accept her son as a patient because she was on medicaid.

2. She DID step up more...the dentist would not see them.

3. You cannot afford a bridge. Her son died. And YOU get the shaft???

This is not REALLY the ES from previous posts is it ???
Nawwwww....couldn't be. For if it is......she is a walking / talking contradiction.

[Twisterdog]

What a horrible situation.

One of my employees called every dentist in our entire county last week, because her daughter's tooth broke off, with the root exposed. Guess what ... not one dentist would see her - they either were not taking new patients at all, or not taking Medicare patients at all. She took her to the emergency room, where they waiting six hours, finally saw a doctor, who gave her some Tylenol, and said he would try to find an on-call dentist. Four hours later they left, still unseen. They ended up getting a $500 loan from me for gas and dentist bill, and driving to the next state to get the tooth pulled. Seriously. And the area I live in is by no means poverty stricken.

So I have no doubts whatsoever that this poor woman did indeed try to get her kids in to see dentists, and was denied time and again.

[wombat2u2004]

What a horrible situation.

One of my employees called every dentist in our entire county last week, because her daughter's tooth broke off, with the root exposed. Guess what ... not one dentist would see her - they either were not taking new patients at all, or not taking Medicare patients at all. She took her to the emergency room, where they waiting six hours, finally saw a doctor, who gave her some Tylenol, and said he would try to find an on-call dentist. Four hours later they left, still unseen. They ended up getting a $500 loan from me for gas and dentist bill, and driving to the next state to get the tooth pulled. Seriously. And the area I live in is by no means poverty stricken.

So I have no doubts whatsoever that this poor woman did indeed try to get her kids in to see dentists, and was denied time and again.

You have to be kidding !!!! Are these dentists supposed to be members of the human race or what ????
I tell you what...if that happened here in Australia, those dentists would be out of business so fast they wouldn't know what hit them.
There's a little thing here called professionalism.....and it's all too obvious after reading your post that it doesn't exist in your country.
How disgusting.
Wombat

[Pam]

Sadly, I am sure this goes on more often than we will ever know. Years ago I worked for a dentist. When I first started with him he was seeing Medicaid patients. Shortly after that he stopped seeing any new Medicaid but still saw his old Medicaid patients and anyone who was already a patient but now unfortunately found themselves on Medicaid. If my memory serves me right, a routine cleaning under Medicaid provided a reimbursement of something like $6 while a regular insurance provided a reimbursement of $30. Remember this was years ago so the numbers I am sure have drastically changed, but you can see the huge difference in compensation. It is a matter of greed for sure. :(

[Pawsitive Thinking]

There's a little thing here called professionalism.....and it's all too obvious after reading your post that it doesn't exist in your country.
How disgusting.
Wombat


Not one for making sweeping generalisations are you??? :eek: I doubt that America is the only country where this has happened, its virtually impossible to get on a dentist list over here unless you want to pay privately...

[wombat2u2004]

Not one for making sweeping generalisations are you??? :eek: I doubt that America is the only country where this has happened, its virtually impossible to get on a dentist list over here unless you want to pay privately...

Well I look at that generalisation in the context of the number of people in communities. The more people, the more out of touch these medicos become.
I can imagine in a place like New York, one could live right next door to someone, and never know who they are.
Here, especially where I come from, the communities seem to be a little more closely linked....in fact my daughter goes to school with my family doctor's daughter. So when I go to the doctor, it's almost like visiting a friend.
I can imagine how different that would be in the USA. In fact I know it's different, because I have a neice there who is specialist doctor....her attitude is one of money only, she even admits that she wants no links with her patients other than monetary....I just shake my head at that.
I just cannot understand for the life of me, how these people can live with themselves (they obviously do VERY comfortably), especially the situation at the beginning of this thread. I mean that is nothing short of horrific. Allowing a child to suffer for hours in pain.
Ok....I'll get off my soapbox...lol
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Sadly, I am sure this goes on more often than we will ever know. Years ago I worked for a dentist. When I first started with him he was seeing Medicaid patients. Shortly after that he stopped seeing any new Medicaid but still saw his old Medicaid patients and anyone who was already a patient but now unfortunately found themselves on Medicaid. If my memory serves me right, a routine cleaning under Medicaid provided a reimbursement of something like $6 while a regular insurance provided a reimbursement of $30. Remember this was years ago so the numbers I am sure have drastically changed, but you can see the huge difference in compensation. It is a matter of greed for sure. :(

And isn't it a crying shame that so called professionals can go that low.
Wombat

[trayi52]

What a shame, that the little boy had to from a toothache!

I don't have any kind of insurance, not even medical. Our governor took all our insurance away. So I have to really be careful about even going to the Doctor. I definitely can't go to the Dentist. They say we make too much money. My husband is on disability, how do you make too much on disability? He of course has medicare, I have nothing!

I can imagine how you can't find a doctor to treat you, when you don't have money to pay for it!

Willie :)

[JenBKR]

Here, especially where I come from, the communities seem to be a little more closely linked....in fact my daughter goes to school with my family doctor's daughter. So when I go to the doctor, it's almost like visiting a friend.
I can imagine how different that would be in the USA. In fact I know it's different, because I have a neice there who is specialist doctor....her attitude is one of money only, she even admits that she wants no links with her patients other than monetary....I just shake my head at that.


Wow! And where I live, children of doctors don't even go to school! :rolleyes:

I wouldn't judge an entire country by one person, meaning your niece. Maybe it's the way she was raised...........

[IRescue452]

What about this http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=122267

I thought all you people didn't want to help the poor? I thought public healthcare would be an injustice to you? Why are you now wanting to take the kids away from parents who can't afford proper care? You aren't going to take care of all of them. Trust me. And not many people know you can die from a toothache. She probably gave him some aspirin to cover the pain as the other kid was worse off and she thought he needed care first. Either way if BOTH kids weren't treated, one of them was going to die.

Thankfully in my county we have a county dental clinic for those who need it. No turn-down unless you have insurance. I pay $10 a visit. But they are so busy that if you are late by 5 minutes they won't accept you for a year. I've got 3 more months before I can get a tooth pulled as I was sick and missed an appointment last year. They still accept walk-in emergencies in the mornings. You can sit all day and not get in, then come in the next day and do it again. The problem is that most people can't skip work, so they can't do that either. They only do extractions too, no root canals. I'd love for a root canal over losing the tooth.

[Argranade]

What are the chances of anyone getting a tooth ache this bad?

Going to there brain! I mean did the boy ever brush his teeth?

[sparks19]

What are the chances of anyone getting a tooth ache this bad?

Going to there brain! I mean did the boy ever brush his teeth?

Not only that but it seemed by the way the article was written that the mother hadn't tried to get that son care because she was preoccupied with her other son with "bigger" problems. Not that I am faulting her for that as I would probably be more concerned with getting my child with 6 rotted teeth dental care before getting one toothache looked at.... no one imagines a toothache would result in death. I don't think any one person is at fault for this.

Besides, getting a kid to the dentist is like pulling teeth anyway (no pun intended). I know my mom had to lie to me to get me to go LOL

[IRescue452]

The chances aren't all that slim. Its an infection in the tooth. Any infection in the tissue of your body can spred and kill you. The tooth just happens to be very close to your brain, which is why tooth infections should be treated as soon as possible. And brushing your teeth does not prevent infection. It can have little at all to do with it.

[CathyBogart]

The chances aren't all that slim. Its an infection in the tooth. Any infection in the tissue of your body can spred and kill you. The tooth just happens to be very close to your brain, which is why tooth infections should be treated as soon as possible. And brushing your teeth does not prevent infection. It can have little at all to do with it.


ITA. Infections, by nature, spread if they aren't treated, It is not uncommon AT ALL for infections in the teeth/mouth to spread to other areas of the body.

[wombat2u2004]

What about this http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=122267

I thought all you people didn't want to help the poor? I thought public healthcare would be an injustice to you? Why are you now wanting to take the kids away from parents who can't afford proper care? You aren't going to take care of all of them. Trust me. And not many people know you can die from a toothache. She probably gave him some aspirin to cover the pain as the other kid was worse off and she thought he needed care first. Either way if BOTH kids weren't treated, one of them was going to die.

Thankfully in my county we have a county dental clinic for those who need it. No turn-down unless you have insurance. I pay $10 a visit. But they are so busy that if you are late by 5 minutes they won't accept you for a year. I've got 3 more months before I can get a tooth pulled as I was sick and missed an appointment last year. They still accept walk-in emergencies in the mornings. You can sit all day and not get in, then come in the next day and do it again. The problem is that most people can't skip work, so they can't do that either. They only do extractions too, no root canals. I'd love for a root canal over losing the tooth.

No....I'm with you on that one....I think public health AND dental care should be the norm.
Wombat

[Twisterdog]

Wombat2u2004 ... Our medical/dental system is indeed in need of reform. I don't think there is a single person in the US that would disagree with that statement. However, to make a blanket statement like, "There's a little thing here called professionalism.....and it's all too obvious after reading your post that it doesn't exist in your country. How disgusting." is perhaps a bit extreme. There are many, many highly professional, kind medical care specialists in this country. And, of course, many that are not so wonderful. I would venture to say that is the case in any profession in any country in the world. I doubt it is exclusively an American problem, although we do seem to be coming to a crisis point right now.


And this statement as well ..." I look at that generalisation in the context of the number of people in communities. The more people, the more out of touch these medicos become. I can imagine in a place like New York, one could live right next door to someone, and never know who they are.
Here, especially where I come from, the communities seem to be a little more closely linked....I can imagine how different that would be in the USA. In fact I know it's different..." How do you know? By one person's description? I'm actually from Wyoming, which is the least populated of all the states. The incident I told of occurred in a fairly small town. It's not that no one cares, per se, it's that we simply don't have enough doctors or dentists practicing here. I have a customer who is a dentist. He works sixteen hour days, six days per week, and takes no new patients whatsoever. When would he possibly see them? He is the nicest man you would ever want to meet, but there is only one of him.

[wombat2u2004]

Twisterdog Wrote: " ..." How do you know? By one person's description?
No, not by one person's description.....it is how I saw it, my neice just backed up my thoughts on that matter.
I don't live in the USA Twisterdog, but I HAVE lived in the USA, and have known a great many Americans in my life. I do comparisons with things like this, between countries. Even tho I am in the Construction industry, it suited my purpose to compare American methods of building as against our own.....and that is what I have done in so many other fields, including your health system.
If there is not enough doctors and dentists in your country, then the question is....why not ???? Is it because it is so expensive to train them ??? And if so....why is it so expensive ??? I'm pretty certain that there would be many many Americans who would have the intelligence to become doctors....but why haven't they the opportunity ???
I believe your whole system is based on the "Old Boys Club", lets just simply make it SO expensive and SO difficult to become a doctor or dentist, so that there is less of these so called professionals as against what the public needs, then we can simply go out and charge what we want.
And the proof of the pudding is that they do exactly that.
Hey....I know there are guys out there like your dentist friend.....that is really great, and I applaud them, but Twister, you do have to admit, they are far and few between.
Wombat

[mugsy]

Our entire medical profession needs to be re-vamped. I was talking to the vet last night (with her hubby) and they are uninsured, but, are in total agreement with me that socialized medicine is NOT the fix.

That little boy died because his mother missed it. I am sorry that he died and I feel horrible that she lost her son. Don't get me wrong. However, there are low cost or no cost dental facilities all over.

This is a classic example of why I got angry at Oprah. My point is that we have suffering children in this country too and need help too....

I'm so sorry for the child and his family. RIP

[sparks19]

It's not just about money.

In ontario, Canada we have socialized medicine and in my home town there is only ONE Dr taking new patients.... and the reason she has room available is because she is a terrible doctor. They don't get to charge whatever they want... they get paid by OHIP but there are just not enough Dr's to go around. They can't work 24/7... they are people too and need a break sometimes.

[emily_the_spoiled]

I don't normally weigh in on these threads but I thought I might on this one because I live in Maryland. There is always more to this story. For example, she had no transportation, so even though there is a low costfree clinic in Baltimore, she had no way of getting there. Medicaid will not cover transportation costs, but he wasn't sick enough for an ambulance so how was he supposed to get to the dentist?

Unfortunately in most countries there is a two (or more) tiered healthcare system. One for the well insured (or wealthy) and one for the rest of us. Neither the "socialized" systems in Europe and Canada or the free market system in the US can continue to exist in their current structures. The entry of the baby boomers in to retirement will force all the countries to re-evaluate their systems and what health care is.

[Ceph]

lol, actually you can call the ambulances about anything (from a non bleeding scratch all the way to a gaping wound)...and they are REQUIRED to take you...forms have to be signed and signed again if you refuse treatment/transport.

[lizbud]

When I was a child, there was a time that my family was very poor.We
children received food & clothes from a local Catholic Charity group. My
Mom was helped to find assistance with the rent of our house as well. In
order to visit a dentist or MD we took public transportion. Of course, that
was when this country still had family Drs. who would also made house calls if
necessary. In the age of HBOs, it's all a different story.

[Cataholic]

lol, actually you can call the ambulances about anything (from a non bleeding scratch all the way to a gaping wound)...and they are REQUIRED to take you...forms have to be signed and signed again if you refuse treatment/transport.

Uh, LOL, ambulances do not take people to appointments. Not the publically funded ones you are referring to. They take people- usually- to the nearest ER.

"911? Yes, hello. Hey, would you swing on by and pick me up? Where am I going to? Uh, well, you see...I have a doctor's appointment over on Sycamore Street...yeah, at 10 am..."

CLICK!

[Ceph]

Um, I am a state certified EMT...I know th rules on this...they were pounded into my head over...and over....and over again...mostly to avoid lawsuits.

if someone makes a call, and says its an emergency we are required to take them to the hospital . No if ands or buts...alot of the time we see calls that end up being a waste of time, but we take them anyway.

So basically you call 911, say, "my mouth hurts I need to go to the hospital ,' you get a ride....I've heard it before...those are the magic words.

[Twisterdog]

if someone makes a call, and says its an emergency we are required to take them to the hospital . No if ands or buts...alot of the time we see calls that end up being a waste of time, but we take them anyway.

So basically you call 911, say, "my mouth hurts I need to go to the hospital ,' you get a ride....I've heard it before...those are the magic words.

I'm sure that's true. However ... how does that help this woman get her son to a dental clinic? It gets her to the hospital ... but that's not where she needs to go.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Um, I am a state certified EMT...I know th rules on this...they were pounded into my head over...and over....and over again...mostly to avoid lawsuits.

if someone makes a call, and says its an emergency we are required to take them to the hospital . No if ands or buts...alot of the time we see calls that end up being a waste of time, but we take them anyway.

So basically you call 911, say, "my mouth hurts I need to go to the hospital ,' you get a ride....I've heard it before...those are the magic words.

Perhaps she did not have your advantage of knowing the magic words. It had not been pounded into her head. I would never think to call an ambulance because I or my child had a toothache.

[Ceph]

Perhaps she did not have your advantage of knowing the magic words. It had not been pounded into her head. I would never think to call an ambulance because I or my child had a toothache.

I was just answering the 'it's not like they could call an ambulance' comment. I wasn't trying to be snotty. :rolleyes: No need to get all angry and up at arms. I was simply making a statement.

[columbine]

Unfortunately in most countries there is a two (or more) tiered healthcare system. One for the well insured (or wealthy) and one for the rest of us. Neither the "socialized" systems in Europe and Canada or the free market system in the US can continue to exist in their current structures. The entry of the baby boomers in to retirement will force all the countries to re-evaluate their systems and what health care is.People who think that the free market system means we don't pay for folks who can't afford healthcare are mistaken. The only alternative to people with money paying for healthcare for people without money is "screw it, let 'em die." I don't think we're quite there yet.

But we're heading there fast, since we don't want to pay for preventative care for the indigent, so we wait until it hits the life-or-death line, when it's far more expensive to treat them under emergency circumstances, they're often so debilitated by it that they can't even work their low-wage job afterward, and some don't make it anyway.

And these aren't just the "easily written off," whether one defines that as substance abusers, mentally ill people, the unemployed, or one's ex-spouse. These are people pulling hourly paychecks for employers who'll only employ them 25 hours a week and no more, so as not to be required to pay for health coverage. So they're working 2 jobs just to cover rent, gas, and utilities - it's not like they can save up against a medical emergency. That's fine when you're 20, but if you can't afford education to get a better job, it's all you've got when you're 50. That and the Emergency Room.

Love, Columbine

[wombat2u2004]

I'm sure that's true. However ... how does that help this woman get her son to a dental clinic? It gets her to the hospital ... but that's not where she needs to go.

Well.....I'm sure that would be better than staying at home popping aspirin.
Wombat

[sparks19]

I'm sure that's true. However ... how does that help this woman get her son to a dental clinic? It gets her to the hospital ... but that's not where she needs to go.

They can certainly give the child antibiotics at the hospital... which in turn would help stop infection from spreading... which in turn would help him LIVE. It's not a perfect solution but it's better than doing nothing.

[lizbud]

People who think that the free market system means we don't pay for folks who can't afford healthcare are mistaken. The only alternative to people with money paying for healthcare for people without money is "screw it, let 'em die." I don't think we're quite there yet.

But we're heading there fast, since we don't want to pay for preventative care for the indigent, so we wait until it hits the life-or-death line, when it's far more expensive to treat them under emergency circumstances, they're often so debilitated by it that they can't even work their low-wage job afterward, and some don't make it anyway.

And these aren't just the "easily written off," whether one defines that as substance abusers, mentally ill people, the unemployed, or one's ex-spouse. These are people pulling hourly paychecks for employers who'll only employ them 25 hours a week and no more, so as not to be required to pay for health coverage. So they're working 2 jobs just to cover rent, gas, and utilities - it's not like they can save up against a medical emergency. That's fine when you're 20, but if you can't afford education to get a better job, it's all you've got when you're 50. That and the Emergency Room.

Love, Columbine


There is a lot of truth in this statement but, you can't find many lawmakers who not only understand, but are willing to do the hard work to extend coverage to all familes with young children.

[Catty1]

In Canada, each province has its own health system.

In the richest province, Alberta, where I live, we pay premiums for health every 3 months - I have prescr insurance thru Blue Cross (which I get only thru Alberta Health). Extra premiums.

No, the premiums won't break me and some folks have company insurance.

But I will wait three times as long for a "free" knee replacement etc

In Alberta, several women with at-risk pregnancies had to have their babies in another province and in the USA because there were not enough beds.

Baby Boomers mean lots of people in need, and not enough nurses, doctors etc. We have doctors leaving general practice because their pay does not meet overhead.

Just a POV from the north.

[sparks19]

In Canada, each province has its own health system.

In the richest province, Alberta, where I live, we pay premiums for health every 3 months - I have prescr insurance thru Blue Cross (which I get only thru Alberta Health). Extra premiums.

No, the premiums won't break me and some folks have company insurance.

But I will wait three times as long for a "free" knee replacement etc

In Alberta, several women with at-risk pregnancies had to have their babies in another province and in the USA because there were not enough beds.

Baby Boomers mean lots of people in need, and not enough nurses, doctors etc. We have doctors leaving general practice because their pay does not meet overhead.

Just a POV from the north.

So basically things in Alberta are the same as they are in Ontario. I can't say that I have ever heard much from anyone from Alberta on how their healthcare system is working. We have the exact same problem in Ontario. LONNNNNNNNG waits.... not enough beds.... and Dr's constantly leaving because they can't make any money there.

Even when I had to get my widsom teeth out.... I had to wait over a year to get in to the maxillo-facial surgeon. Not enough supply for the demand.

[Catty1]

It's not even so much the money...overloaded doctors are burning out. And nurses too.

I wish I could wave a magic wand and have everyone do as much preventive care as possible - lifetsyle changes, etc.

I know it wouldn't help the whole thing...but I do wonder how much of the space in long lineups is caused by people who have been eating/smoking/drinking too much, and the health effects of that?

The teeth are a different matter....

It's a tight situation.

[emily_the_spoiled]

As someone who has worked in health policy (as a health care professional, policy maker, and researcher) in both Canada and the US, the end result of the systems are not that much different. The big difference is how they get to the end result. For what ever reason (either long wait lists, no insurance, etc) there is always a segment of the population that will delay their care. The major difference between Canada and the US, is that in Canada you will EVENTUALLY get the care. Unfortunately in the US you will receive the care when you get appropriate insurance, enough cash, or by the time it is too late (as in the case of this little boy).

[wombat2u2004]

As someone who has worked in health policy (as a health care professional, policy maker, and researcher) in both Canada and the US, the end result of the systems are not that much different. The big difference is how they get to the end result. For what ever reason (either long wait lists, no insurance, etc) there is always a segment of the population that will delay their care. The major difference between Canada and the US, is that in Canada you will EVENTUALLY get the care. Unfortunately in the US you will receive the care when you get appropriate insurance, enough cash, or by the time it is too late (as in the case of this little boy).

Exactly...I couldn't agree more !!!!
Wombat

[columbine]

I know it wouldn't help the whole thing...but I do wonder how much of the space in long lineups is caused by people who have been eating/smoking/drinking too much, and the health effects of that?WAY too much, because junkfood, cigs, and beer are heavily advertised on the cheapest form of entertainment, TV, and all that Madison Avenue glitz has the strongest effect on the least educated minds. So lousy health is a "poverty tax" that we all end up paying with our wallets, and the wage-earners and below pay a far higher rate in a far more precious currency. This is the true cost of free enterprise. Emptor just doesn't caveat, because it's so much more profitable to train him/her not to.

Love, Columbine (who had Fritos for lunch and is currently enjoying a refreshing beverage containing ethanol)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Columbine...WOW! How eloquently you have summed it up....( pass the Fritos! ;) ;) )

[mugsy]

Gee I didn't realize that being poor made you not able to make decisions and should be released from any and all responsibility for yourself. And I wonder why my lower socio-economic students don't perform well....that's IT! They don't have to answer to anyone, including themselves.

[Catty1]

Mugsy - it seems to me that someone posted here that the mom had tried time and time again to get help for her son...and no dentist would take her. As a last resort, at Emerg, they told her to wait while they found a dentist. 4 hours later, she gave up and went home...

Perhaps some of the poorer students in your class are so unmotivated because they or their parents have tried again and again...and after a while got tired of hitting brick walls.

Including "they" generalizations like
They don't have to answer to anyone, including themselves..

It's not that simple...I wish it was black-and-white.

I read once about a teacher who started each new year by telling her students that she had given them each an "A", and it was up to them to prove they didn't deserve it.

(PS my mom was an excellent teacher for over 40 years, so I lived first hand with all her days and experiences).

Let's talk about a solution...what would it/they be?

[columbine]

Well, one thing that I hope will help is for city kids to have safe places to play. They get plopped in front of the idiot box all day because if they go out they'll get hit by a car, recruited as a runner by a drug seller, or kidnapped. If they had a decent place to play, maybe they'd be allowed out to run around and climb stuff.

There's actually an organization working on this called KaBOOM (http://www.kaboom.org/) that teams up with neighborhood folks to make new or clean up existing playgrounds, ballfields, and skating rinks.

(I'm reminded of an old Rowan & Martin joke: "Americans have forgotten what good clean fun is." "You're right, Dan. What good is it?")

Love, Columbine

[sparks19]

Well, one thing that I hope will help is for city kids to have safe places to play. They get plopped in front of the idiot box all day because if they go out they'll get hit by a car, recruited as a runner by a drug seller, or kidnapped. If they had a decent place to play, maybe they'd be allowed out to run around and climb stuff.

There's actually an organization working on this called KaBOOM (http://www.kaboom.org/) that teams up with neighborhood folks to make new or clean up existing playgrounds, ballfields, and skating rinks.

(I'm reminded of an old Rowan & Martin joke: "Americans have forgotten what good clean fun is." "You're right, Dan. What good is it?")

Love, Columbine


OR...... their parents could supervise them. if they are young enough or impulsive enough to be running out in front of vehicles they shouldn't be outside alone anyway.

While cities are starting to lack playgrounds and other such areas.... it is quite simple for a parent to go out with a child and at least take a walk.

And the mother waited for 4 hours and gave up and went home? Not to be passing judgement on the mother but she COULD have waited longer. A 4 hour wait at an emergency room is nothing. If you are not bleeding out you are lucky to see a Dr in emerg in under 8-10 hours... At least that's how it is in the city I am from.

[Catty1]

I would have to reread an earlier post, but I seem to recall that the mom had tried MANY MANY times to get to a dentist and been refused, and that emerg was a last resort.

Someone else raised a good point...why not give the boy antibiotics instead of aspirin?

Columbine - I like the kaBOOM idea! I hope they spread like crazy.

[Ceph]

I was just going to post something from a while back (I just got home after two days without my comp...)

The boy was treated at Children's Hospital....when an Ambulance takes you, you go to the Emergency room, and from theren they refer you to the next place if they see a problem....and most hospitals have dentists and/or dental clinices that I know of....clearly Children's does...and that would have most likley for their area been the hospital the Ambulance would have taken them too.

There are plenty of safe places in DC and PG county and MoCo to play....believe me...I grew up here....I came with my friends and hung around in DC till midnight (usually the mall) as a kid....it was never a problem...totolly safe....while there are some parts of the city that arent...its really easy and safe to jump on the metro or bus to go somewhere else.

oh, also, 4 hours is nothing in those hospitals - Washington Hospital Center, VA Hospital, Children's and NRH are all connected....and they all take in ALOT of people...I have seen people come into the eye clinic at WHC and wait well over that because such a large number of people come in...its what happens when you run low cost / free clinics.

[emily_the_spoiled]

In the Saturday Washington Post there was an article about this little boy. Both the federal and state governments are trying to commit more money for children like Deamonte.

Hopefully he did not die in vain :(

[Vio&Juni]

In Moldova, a few years ago, after 50-60 years of "free medicine", we introduced the medical insurance. At the moment, we pay 2.5 percent of our total wage (no mater how many hours you work) and the employer pays the same 2.5 percent (used to be 2% last year). I want to mention that this is a tax and you cannot chose not to pay it. Only retired (medical included), jobless and students get it for free - and it should stay so. It is rather difficult and and financially not worth it to register as a jobless person, so, you can also buy the insurance for an amount that is around 100$ per year - a lot in Moldova.

This mandatory insurance gives you the basic medical care and emergency services. I was very sceptical how this would work, but, although there are still a lot of problems with this new system, I think in nature it's fair. I'd rather contribute the two and a half percent of my wage, knowing that the poor people also contribute their share than just simply paying for them too.

[wombat2u2004]

In Moldova, a few years ago, after 50-60 years of "free medicine", we introduced the medical insurance. At the moment, we pay 2.5 percent of our total wage (no mater how many hours you work) and the employer pays the same 2.5 percent (used to be 2% last year). I want to mention that this is a tax and you cannot chose not to pay it. Only retired (medical included), jobless and students get it for free - and it should stay so. It is rather difficult and and financially not worth it to register as a jobless person, so, you can also buy the insurance for an amount that is around 100$ per year - a lot in Moldova.

This mandatory insurance gives you the basic medical care and emergency services. I was very sceptical how this would work, but, although there are still a lot of problems with this new system, I think in nature it's fair. I'd rather contribute the two and a half percent of my wage, knowing that the poor people also contribute their share than just simply paying for them too.

Our system here in Australia is the same, it's called Medicare.....it works fine.
We pay a small percentage in our taxes to, but if you want more higher services, such as private rooms in hospitals etc etc....then you can take out private insurance.....including a Medicare upgrade, but those extra premiums come out of your own pocket.
I think it's a good system, and it certainly works well......I think one of the main advantages of this scheme is that it keeps doctors honest.
Wombat