Who licenses dog trainers?

[applesmom]

I didn't know that dog trainers are regulated or had to be licensed in the united states. Are they licensed by the city, state or county? What kind of qualifications are required in order to become a licensed dog trainer?

[borzoimom]

Here you go applesmom.. http://www.nk9dta.com/selecting_trainer.aspx It should answer most of your questions. This is one of several schools that once you are certified, you can then get licensed in your own state. Licensing requires you to also be bonded ( like a licensed electrician etc would be.) You can not be get a license without a certification of an accredited school. This also explains the difference from a certified trainer and and a licensed one. Neither would be fine but licensed means you are bonded, subject to state laws and reported to the Better Business Bureau etc.

[Ceph]

Animal Behavior College is another one...which is slighlty more on the more convenient side....The first part is online, then you work in a shelter and with a mentor trainer for a few months.

[borzoimom]

Animal Behavior College is another one...which is slighlty more on the more convenient side....The first part is online, then you work in a shelter and with a mentor trainer for a few months.
Thats a good one too!

[applesmom]

Here you go applesmom.. http://www.nk9dta.com/selecting_trainer.aspx It should answer most of your questions. This is one of several schools that once you are certified, you can then get licensed in your own state. Licensing requires you to also be bonded ( like a licensed electrician etc would be.) You can not be get a license without a certification of an accredited school. This also explains the difference from a certified trainer and and a licensed one. Neither would be fine but licensed means you are bonded, subject to state laws and reported to the Better Business Bureau etc.

Thanks borzoimom but this site doesn't answer my questions about licensing at all. In fact it reinforces my beliefs that there are still no actual licensing regulations for dog trainers.


The NK9DTA does not set standards of skill or competence for members. Membership in the NK9DTA is open to all National K-9 School for Dog Trainers’ graduates who pay membership dues and are currently in good standing. The NK9DTA directory includes individuals with a wide range of experience, knowledge, and varied skill. There are currently no State laws that require a Dog Trainer to have any special license or education.


The ABC is nothing more than an online course who does nothing to license their graduates other than send them a certificate of certification that they've completed the course. There is no hands on training whatsoever!
The only licensing involved there is the school itself is licensed according to state regulations--not the students.


STATE LICENSURE and APPROVAL Animal Behavior College is a private vocational school approved under California Education Code Sections 94915 and Title 5 of the California Code of Regulations. This approval indicates that Animal Behavior College has been visited and reviewed pursuant to state standards, and that the curricula is consistent in quality with the curricula offered by traditional institutions.

What I'm looking for is information on the actual licensing of dog trainers and the organizations that provide that licensing and oversee the industry.

[borzoimom]

MIne is from there in certification- then presented to the state as certification to license. I must also present " bonded" agreement. Also can be reported by the Better Business Bureau. I am not sure how it works in your state.
Some states do not license trainers. More frequently are those training Schzhound - not sure how your state works.
Also- keep in mind- even a "licensed electrician-" is NOT licensed in all states- just their own. And it starts with certication testing. Like my husband has his licenses in Va. And Md. That DOES NOT MEAN he is licensed to practice in other states. Same thing..

[Ceph]

The ABC is nothing more than an online course who does nothing to license their graduates other than send them a certificate of certification that they've completed the course. There is no hands on training whatsoever!
The only licensing involved there is the school itself is licensed according to state regulations--not the students.



Uh, I am actually in the ABC program now thank you very much....I think I know what they do. There is several hours of required hands on training, both with a mentor trainer and in a shelter. I think I would know!

Also, there are several organizations that I have found that you test to join also.

[borzoimom]

Uh, I am actually in the ABC program now thank you very much....I think I know what they do. There is several hours of required hands on training, both WITH A MENTOR TRAINER AND IN A SHELTER. I think I would know!

Also, there are several organizations that I have found that you test to join also.
Yea there are several.

[applesmom]

In my state I could put an ad in the paper and start teaching classes in my back yard or at a local park immediately. I might need a business license, but wouldn't be required to have a dog trainers license or provide any certification regarding my abilities or experience.

I'd love to know where to go to find a list of trainers that are actually licensed by their city, county or state. Not to run a business, but as licensed dog trainers. If there is such a thing it should be public information.

[borzoimom]

In my state I could put an ad in the paper and start teaching classes in my back yard or at a local park immediately. I might need a business license, but wouldn't be required to have a dog trainers license or provide any certification regarding my abilities or experience.

I'd love to know where to go to find a list of trainers that are actually licensed by their city, county or state. Not to run a business, but as licensed dog trainers. If there is such a thing it should be public information.
I agree - should be.. Contact your state BBB- maybe they have it. They have it here.
BTW applesmom- how many times on either site we visit - have you heard me mention my license??? NEVER.. I did so because I know the poster that was looking for a trainer, and on this site we can tell what state they are from- unlike the other site- that and only that.. And btw again- it worked what I told the poster too ( of course..lol).. Even a doctor has to get a license- in the state of practice. I would suspect the same way you find out if they are licensed in that state, is the same way you could find your licensed trainers in your state.

[applesmom]

Uh, I am actually in the ABC program now thank you very much....I think I know what they do. There is several hours of required hands on training, both WITH A MENTOR TRAINER AND IN A SHELTER. I think I would know!

Also, there are several organizations that I have found that you test to join also.

Ceph I'm sure you will learn a lot and enjoy every minute of your training.
But my question is about licensing!

Licensing is completely different than certification by a training agency or organization!

[borzoimom]

MIne is from there in certification- then presented to the state as certification to license. I must also present " bonded" agreement. Also can be reported by the Better Business Bureau. I am not sure how it works in your state.
Some states do not license trainers. More frequently are those training Schzhound - not sure how your state works.
Also- keep in mind- even a "licensed electrician-" is NOT licensed in all states- just their own. And it starts with certication testing. Like my husband has his licenses in Va. And Md. That DOES NOT MEAN he is licensed to practice in other states. Same thing..
Again applesmom- these are the steps.

[Ceph]

yes, but the statement regarding no hands on training and just getting mailed a cert. in the mail was inncorrect. You made it sound like there was no work involved. I did make a mistake in interpreting what you were looking for.

I suppose some states require liscensing in dog training, but mine doesnt that I know of....I figure if they dont require it in Equine training which is far more dangerous and can have much worse outcomes they wouldnt require it for canine training...I could be wrong...it's something I'll look up.

[borzoimom]

yes, but the statement regarding no hands on training and just getting mailed a cert. in the mail was inncorrect. You made it sound like there was no work involved. I did make a mistake in interpreting what you were looking for.
I know ceph- she doesnt understand. Maybe its not required in her state. Also keep in mind- places like a "Recreation department" etc maynot require someone to be licensed to teach classes. Here its encouraged but not required. The lady that took my classes last fall when I was ill was certified but she didn't 'get a licensed". Still qualified to do it- she just did not have a license. I got a license because I am also bonded to protect me. I also carry an insurance rider as well. Paranoid- maybe- but considering most was training for protection etc- I wanted to be covered.

[Ceph]

lol, that makes sense....It's why I am enrolled to take pet CPR :p

Where can you get licensed in Virginia? Is there an overall state licesning or just an area one.

[borzoimom]

lol, that makes sense....It's why I am enrolled to take pet CPR :p

Where can you get licensed in Virginia? Is there an overall state licesning or just an area one.
Its not by area its by state. I will find out from you know who down there where she got hers and let you know. You are not that far from here, and that should help..

[applesmom]

Borzoimom on the website you posted it clearly states,



ANYONE can call himself or herself a dog trainer, so certification can be important.

There are currently NO STATE LAWS that require a Dog Trainer to have any special license or education. If this information is wrong they need to correct it.

They also clearly state:
The NK9DTA does NOT set standards of skill or competence for members. Membership in the NK9DTA is open to all National K-9 School for Dog Trainers’ graduates who pay membership dues and are currently in good standing.

In other words, no matter the amount of competence or incompetence--all one has to do is keep their dues up and they're certified dog trainers.

[binka_nugget]

I don't know what it's like in the United States but in Canada, anyone can call themselves a dog trainer. Heck, anyone can call themselves a "certified dog trainer".. just print out a certificate and there ya go!

I teach private and group classes. I've never been certified (though joining CAPPDT is on my to-do list).. everything I know is through hands-on experience and trial and error. I've mentored with behaviorists and trainers and have gone to seminars, but I've never been certified. :)

[borzoimom]

Alot of places do not require certification. I actually did it because I could get a license and a "bonded" . .. shoot- we had one lady teaching classes a few years ago- lolllllllllll.. I will leave the rest alone.

[applesmom]

yes, but the statement regarding no hands on training and just getting mailed a cert. in the mail was inncorrect. You made it sound like there was no work involved. I did make a mistake in interpreting what you were looking for.

I suppose some states require liscensing in dog training, but mine doesnt that I know of....I figure if they dont require it in Equine training which is far more dangerous and can have much worse outcomes they wouldnt require it for canine training...I could be wrong...it's something I'll look up.

Ceph I didn't read enough of the site to see that they actually do offer hands on training since I was looking primarily for information on licensing. Please accept my apology!

[cali]

don't know what it's like in the United States but in Canada, anyone can call themselves a dog trainer. Heck, anyone can call themselves a "certified dog trainer".. just print out a certificate and there ya go!



lol so true, Happys breeder teaches training classes. know how many dogs she has personally trained with any success out of 20 or so dogs? 1. quite the feat eh? I know my mom asked about teaching classes at petcetera and they told her she needed to be certified. know how to get certified in Canada? go online pay some club 20 buck, they hand you a certificate and wala! your a certified trainer!

[Ceph]

Ceph I didn't read enough of the site to see that they actually do offer hands on training since I was looking primarily for information on licensing. Please accept my apology!

Apology accepted...thank you :)

[borzoimom]

lol so true, Happys breeder teaches training classes. know how many dogs she has personally trained with any success out of 20 or so dogs? 1. quite the feat eh? I know my mom asked about teaching classes at petcetera and they told her she needed to be certified. know how to get certified in Canada? go online pay some club 20 buck, they hand you a certificate and wala! your a certified trainer!
Good point- know your schools- ... lol.. Just like the CKC ( not canada) will hand you a registration on a mutt- its not worth the paper its printed on.. lol.. If you really need a licensed trainer- know what school you are checking out...

[applesmom]

Alot of places do not require certification. I actually did it because I could get a license and a "bonded" . .. shoot- we had one lady teaching classes a few years ago- lolllllllllll.. I will leave the rest alone.

borzoimom perhaps we're mis-communicating here. It sounds like what you have is a business license to practice dog training. That's not the information I'm looking for.

When I see an ad that says "licensed" dog trainer I visualize an organization or city, county or state agency that oversees ALL dog trainers in that specific area. One that has set rules, guidlines, qualifications and testing for licensing. As far as I can see the industry isn't truly monitored by anyone and "licensed" simply means the individual or company might have a business license.

[borzoimom]

borzoimom perhaps we're mis-communicating here. It sounds like what you have is a business license to practice dog training. That's not the information I'm looking for.

When I see an ad that says "licensed" dog trainer I visualize an organization or city, county or state agency that oversees ALL dog trainers in that specific area. One that has set rules, guidlines, qualifications and testing for licensing. As far as I can see the industry isn't truly monitored by anyone and "licensed" simply means the individual or company might have a business license.
Obviously we are miscommunicating. Not sure about your state, but here its only a accrediate school they will accept for a license. Alot of licences are harder to get in the state of Virginia. I have no idea about your state. Mine is a certification from a great school- at the time it was a longer course- and even the acceptance into the school was quite an honor. Obviously your state is different..Even licensed electricians, HVAC, builders etc do not have an " organization.."

[applesmom]

Obviously your state is different..Even licensed electricians, HVAC, builders etc do not have an " organization.."

Yes they do have an organization that oversees their activities. It's called the registrar of contractors.

We're not getting anywhere with this one. There is not one place on the internet that invalidates the statement from the website you originally posted.

There are currently NO State laws that require a Dog Trainer to have any special license or education.

What you are describing that you have is a business license. That isn't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for laws that license and regulate dog trainers, monitor their activities and guarantee some sort of standards and professionalism.

Currently they don't exist anywhere in the United States.

[borzoimom]

Yes they do have an organization that oversees their activities. It's called the registrar of contractors.

We're not getting anywhere with this one. There is not one place on the internet that invalidates the statement from the website you originally posted.


What you are describing that you have is a business license. That isn't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for laws that license and regulate dog trainers, monitor their activities and guarantee some sort of standards and professionalism.

Currently they don't exist anywhere in the United States.
Its not a business license.. You do not get it what we are saying.. its a certification obviously NOT done in your state. Remind me not to take dog classes there. ..

[DrKym]

Applesnon,
There is no blanket org that oversees or for that matter requires you to have a certain amount of experience or success. There is no state, or county or government agency that sets even minimum standards.

There are several places that you can be certified, and all it means is you passed basic knowledge and have recieved in most cases, some hands on work with dogs.

I know several trainers, that have this certification and I wouldn't trust them to teach a dead dog to lie down.

I know several people that have no certification, that I would happily hand over my animal to.

That being said, if you think there should be an org. I will support any efforts you want to make and help anyway I can. As there should be some place to be able to look up a persons abilities and sucess or failures, and also a place to keep accurate info.

Kym

[borzoimom]

Applesnon,
There is no blanket org that oversees or for that matter requires you to have a certain amount of experience or success. There is no state, or county or government agency that sets even minimum standards.

There are several places that you can be certified, and all it means is you passed basic knowledge and have recieved in most cases, some hands on work with dogs.

I know several trainers, that have this certification and I wouldn't trust them to teach a dead dog to lie down.

I know several people that have no certification, that I would happily hand over my animal to.

That being said, if you think there should be an org. I will support any efforts you want to make and help anyway I can. As there should be some place to be able to look up a persons abilities and sucess or failures, and also a place to keep accurate info.

Kym
I agree- that is why I would not touch a licensed trainer that was not recorded with the better business bureau. That makes a traceable record..

[applesmom]

Its not a business license.. You do not get it what we are saying.. its a certification obviously NOT done in your state. Remind me not to take dog classes there. ..

I get it! Certification and license are two completely different things. I could become a "certified" dog trainer in Arizona if I chose to. I CAN'T become licensed because licensing for dog trainers isn't in existence anywhere in the united states.

That's my concern!

[DrKym]

I am listed with the BBB for my rescue, for training, for Service animals, for my small shop, for the soaps that Jasper makes, and also for several other endeveours. BBB simply keeps track of complaints.
It doesnt regulate any of my endevours.

[applesmom]

I am listed with the BBB for my rescue, for training, for Service animals, for my small shop, for the soaps that Jasper makes, and also for several other endeveours. BBB simply keeps track of complaints.
It doesnt regulate any of my endevours.

Exactly! And you are listed with the BBB but NOT licensed by them.

[borzoimom]

I get it! Certification and license are two completely different things. I could become a "certified" dog trainer in Arizona if I chose to. I CAN'T become licensed because licensing for dog trainers isn't in existence anywhere in the united states.

That's my concern!
ONE MORE TIME- by being licensed- that means you are certified by a accrediated school, and carry a license as a way of recording. Just like a doctor- you can have a medical degree- but that doesnt mean you are licensed. You have no recordable record without a license. The license records complaints etc. WITHOUT A LICENSE- a doctor even can practice- but you accept the outcome. We also see this in the news all the time as well. Its a recording method of certifacation.

[borzoimom]

Exactly! And you are listed with the BBB but NOT licensed by them.
Do you have a certification as a dog trainer??? Its not a business- its traceable by certifacations.

[DrKym]

Exactly! And you are listed with the BBB but NOT licensed by them.


Exactly, I am licensed to conduct these businesses, in my state and my town and my county. A few of them do have national orgs that we have to re test ever yr or so to prove we are keeping up with new info and practices.
But the BBB is like a D&B number. BFD. I have several of those too. Doesn't mean my soap is any better than Jack Jones on Main St. Means if you don't like it or my attitude or it's lather you may file a complaint, BBB will ask me to behave and play nice, If I do I get a cookie and no black mark if I don't them I get a black mark for running with scissors. :p

[DrKym]

Do you have a certification as a dog trainer??? Its not a business- its traceable by certifacations.


Shelly, you know I am a certified trainer, and a certified Service animal trainer. What guarantee is that? For all anyone knows I beat my dogs with carrots when no one is looking.

[Ceph]

Shelly, you know I am a certified trainer, and a certified Service animal trainer. What guarantee is that? For all anyone knows I beat my dogs with carrots when no one is looking.

lol, I am sorry, but that's sort of an odd mental picture....why carrots might I ask? Wouldnt something more menacing be more appropriate?

[borzoimom]

Shelly, you know I am a certified trainer, and a certified Service animal trainer. What guarantee is that? For all anyone knows I beat my dogs with carrots when no one is looking.
ROFL.. true.. But you did take the certification- the license just makes reports as traceable.

[DrKym]

lol, I am sorry, but that's sort of an odd mental picture....why carrots might I ask? Wouldnt something more menacing be more appropriate?

They hate carrots

[Ceph]

I never knew...lol, thanks...thats another thing to file in the good to know category. Thanks.

[borzoimom]

Well my guys love carrots.. Lol.. Kym I have no clue what they do in your state.. lol. But carrots- Hottie wants some.. lol. And thanks for the giggle of that image!

[applesmom]

Do you have a certification as a dog trainer??? Its not a business- its traceable by certifacations.

This is not about me or you. It's about licensing! The point is that there is no licensing currently available or necessary for dog trainers other than in some cases a business license.


As the site you posted stated, anyone can put out a shingle as a dog trainer--no dog trainers license is necessary or even available.

[borzoimom]

This is not about me or you. It's about licensing! The point is that there is no licensing currently available or necessary for dog trainers other than in some cases a business license.


As the site you posted stated, anyone can put out a shingle as a dog trainer--no dog trainers license is necessary or even available.
( bangs head on computer..) okay - put it this way Applesmom- your certification is listed as what the license is .. does that help?? Maybe you cant put certification numbers on your license in YOUR AREA, but they do here! My license is only under that one thing- it doesnt mean I can open a store under that licenese.. does that help??? I.E.- you have a car drivers license- you have a number to "drive"- that doesnt mean you are " licenced " to drive a truck! Does that help you to understand it????

[applesmom]

Please don't hijack the thread with nonsense.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me a state that provides licensing for dog trainers that is anything other than a business license.

[Ceph]

just out of mild curiosity why is it such a big deal. Owners will make decisions based on what think no matter what the licensing is. They are going to look at the credentials, what they have done in the past, what they've turned out, who've they've worked and trained with. And if the trainer sucks, they'll go somewhere else....The owners are with them the majority of the time arent they? It wouldnt be that hard to judge a buffoon who knows nothing from someone who has an idea of what they are doing.

Edit : I for one am probably going to get a job at petsmart for a year or two because that way I can get more experience in a controlled environment and work more with dogs...after I feel comfortable I'll move on to my own business in all liklihood. If I do well, people will come with me and I will have refrences and a pretty decent resumee...if not I close within a year...its kind of like natural selection.

[DrKym]

Please don't hijack the thread with nonsense.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me a state that provides licensing for dog trainers that is anything other than a business license.

As I said in my earlier post. There is none Applesmom.

No regulatory society in any state.

[applesmom]

( bangs head on computer..) okay - put it this way Applesmom- your certification is listed as what the license is .. does that help?? Maybe you cant put certification numbers on your license in YOUR AREA, but they do here! My license is only under that one thing- it doesnt mean I can open a store under that licenese.. does that help??? I.E.- you have a car drivers license- you have a number to "drive"- that doesnt mean you are " licenced " to drive a truck! Does that help you to understand it????

Yes it helps me to understand that it's a business license to run a dog training business.

[borzoimom]

just out of mild curiosity why is it such a big deal. Owners will make decisions based on what think no matter what the licensing is. They are going to look at the credentials, what they have done in the past, what they've turned out, who've they've worked and trained with. And if the trainer sucks, they'll go somewhere else....The owners are with them the majority of the time arent they? It wouldnt be that hard to judge a buffoon who knows nothing from someone who has an idea of what they are doing.
I dont know either. .. My license is based off of certification. Like my husbands license is for commercial- that DOES NOT MEAN he can do residual. Virginia- a license has to be for a specfic purpose. But we have more laws than any other state too.

[applesmom]

As I said in my earlier post. There is none Applesmom.

No regulatory society in any state.

Thank you! :)

[borzoimom]

Yes it helps me to understand that it's a business license to run a dog training business. YOu have to be certified if its a dog training school. Can you teach classes without it- yes- but a place like a high school for liablilty of traceable reports will not let you teach classes in their property if its a state run school. Its traced off of the number on your license.
I know Virginia is complicated, but I am not the law maker. Now if I build a building- and its not state run, yes- all I need is a license to run the business- including all activities. Does that help???

[DrKym]

Thank you! :)

You're welcome. :cool:

[applesmom]

just out of mild curiosity why is it such a big deal. Owners will make decisions based on what think no matter what the licensing is. They are going to look at the credentials, what they have done in the past, what they've turned out, who've they've worked and trained with. And if the trainer sucks, they'll go somewhere else....The owners are with them the majority of the time arent they? It wouldnt be that hard to judge a buffoon who knows nothing from someone who has an idea of what they are doing.

Edit : I for one am probably going to get a job at petsmart for a year or two because that way I can get more experience in a controlled environment and work more with dogs...after I feel comfortable I'll move on to my own business in all liklihood. If I do well, people will come with me and I will have refrences and a pretty decent resumee...if not I close within a year...its kind of like natural selection.

It's not a big deal Ceph. It's simply a topic for conversation, and hopefully a chance to educate pet owners that the term, "licensed dog trainer" only means that the trainer has a business license.

As you said, the proof is in the results; not the advertising!

[borzoimom]

How about this as an explantion- maybe it will help you. I teach classes twice a week at a highschool. In order for me to be in that building- if I were a teacher- I would have a diploma- as a trainer- I have to be licensed with a traceable certification in order to be in a state run school. Stupid?? I agree- but that is what they require. They do allow anyone with a 'degree/certification" " unlicensed " to teach at the school.
I have no clue what they do out where you are, or even where Kym is- thats the way it is here.

[borzoimom]

Man- I need to move. Apparently where you are, any tom dick or harry can do anything with nothing ever asked about it or traceable.. Jeez.. I get tired of paying this stupid thing every year and reporting address changes etc.. Or carrying the stupid thing with me.. jeez.. lol.

[applesmom]

Years ago a friend of mine who was a teacher applied for a position as a dog trainer at a community college. She'd only trained a couple of dogs through novice in obedience, but she got the job.

Why did she get the job? She had a masters degree in teaching. :D

[applesmom]

How about this as an explantion- maybe it will help you. I teach classes twice a week at a highschool. In order for me to be in that building- if I were a teacher- I would have a diploma- as a trainer- I have to be licensed with a traceable certification in order to be in a state run school. Stupid?? I agree- but that is what they require. They do allow anyone with a 'degree/certification" " unlicensed " to teach at the school.
I have no clue what they do out where you are, or even where Kym is- thats the way it is here.

Perhaps I could understand better if you could post what your license says.
Leave out everything personal of course.

[borzoimom]

Years ago a friend of mine who was a teacher applied for a position as a dog trainer at a community college. She'd only trained a couple of dogs through novice in obedience, but she got the job.

Why did she get the job? She had a masters degree in teaching. :D
I have no clue.. Even if I teach at a state park, I have to have it. I can teach in my yard or other private property but not on a state run location. I have no idea what your laws are. And certifications have to have a number or other form of number/letter form to record. They can not be something you print off yourself.

[borzoimom]

Perhaps I could understand better if you could post what your license says.
Leave out everything personal of course.
I will make a copy of it- but most of it is personal information and I am not going to put that on a public forum including my certification number with. And you know EXACTLY why...

[applesmom]

I will make a copy of it- but most of it is personal information and I am not going to put that on a public forum including my certification number with. And you know EXACTLY why...

You don't need a copy. Just type what it says. There aren't that many words on a license of any kind.

[Blue_Frog]

This is my understanding from reading through the post -- please correct me if i'm wrong :)

Using examples sort of ...

Ex. 1: If i want to drive a car, I need to get a license because it is a government regulated deal. No license, no car. Dog Training is not controlled by the government, so the gobbment wouldn't have anything to do with issuing a license.

Ex: 2: At my previous workplace, I got a license to drive a Forklift with a 3rd party licencing agency (Hyster), because my company mandated that I had to. This is not an industry recognized license, and would not necessarly be transferrable to another company. The same could be said for dog licensing -- like I get a job at "Dog Training'R'US", and they mandate as a company policy that i get a license from "ABC Dog Training" in order to fullfill my job. I have a 'license', but its not certified against a centralized licensing board like a government standard, or even an industry standard (like Electricians might, using an earlier posted example). This means that my forklift license is only as good as the paper it was printed on, and as resume fodder, so something similar could be said about a dog training license.

Now correct me if i'm wrong -- there is no single entity or dog training industry that would maintain a record of individual licencing practices? This would mean that each workplace, school, accreditation institute, etc. are responsible for handing out licenses, and may work concurrently with each other. However, like in Ex.2, a Dog Training license may not be recognized from workplace to workplace, state to state, or country to country etc.

[borzoimom]

You don't need a copy. Just type what it says. There aren't that many words on a license of any kind.
State of Virginia
Name -address- certification number- .. received from.. on date, last renewal -- , licensed by number ( state number) certification for following --- ( sch./ puppy/intermediate/ advanced/ handling-show, police training of corp/ tracking/ seach & rescue. Subject to re-certification on - ( date), subject to license - ( date). This license is granted only under items listed with no further action granted. Bearer of license is currently bonded, and insured, with certifacations as listed above. Signed- issuer date. Verification of certication by - ( name of person on file or last checked person) on date -

[caseysmom]

You don't need a copy. Just type what it says. There aren't that many words on a license of any kind.

I am curious what that says too.

[DrKym]

This is my understanding from reading through the post -- please correct me if i'm wrong :)

Using examples sort of ...

Ex. 1: If i want to drive a car, I need to get a license because it is a government regulated deal. No license, no car. Dog Training is not controlled by the government, so the gobbment wouldn't have anything to do with issuing a license.

Ex: 2: At my previous workplace, I got a license to drive a Forklift with a 3rd party licencing agency (Hyster), because my company mandated that I had to. This is not an industry recognized license, and would not necessarly be transferrable to another company. The same could be said for dog licensing -- like I get a job at "Dog Training'R'US", and they mandate as a company policy that i get a license from "ABC Dog Training" in order to fullfill my job. I have a 'license', but its not certified against a centralized licensing board like a government standard, or even an industry standard (like Electricians might, using an earlier posted example). This means that my forklift license is only as good as the paper it was printed on, and as resume fodder, so something similar could be said about a dog training license.

Now correct me if i'm wrong -- there is no single entity or dog training industry that would maintain a record of individual licencing practices? This would mean that each workplace, school, accreditation institute, etc. are responsible for handing out licenses, and may work concurrently with each other. However, like in Ex.2, a Dog Training license may not be recognized from workplace to workplace, state to state, or country to country etc.


EXACTLY :D

[applesmom]

Dog trainers do not have to be licensed or certified in any way to call themselves professional dog trainers. Unlike professions
such as doctors, teachers, or dentists, there is no body governing
all dog trainers and requiring standard techniques or qualifications.
Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, regardless of their level
of experience, methods, or skills. Most dog trainers have
no formal education in canine behavior but instead acquired
knowledge and experience through hands-on apprentice/internships
with established trainers, working in animal shelters, boarding
kennels, or doggie daycares, attending seminars, and training
their own dogs.
Choosing a good dog trainer (http://www.pawsitiveresults.biz/choosingatrainer.html)


Q- What are licensed and certified dog trainers? Q- What are licensed and certified dog trainers?
There are only two types of licensed dog trainers. They are: Guide dog trainers, who train Seeing Eye dogs and Sentry dog trainers who train Police dogs. Only these two types of dog trainers are licensed by the state. ALL other trainers are not licensed. A certified dog trainer is a bit ambiguous at this time. By this, I mean that there are many trainers who just decided to become a dog trainer, who have little or a lot of experience, and who went to a school and got certified. Since there are no requirements to become a pet dog trainer, the field is wide open to anyone who feels they have some knowledge of dog training to call themselves a trainer.

There are only two types of liscensed dog trainers (http://www.shewhisperer.com/faq.htm)




Hiring a Dog Trainer

How can you know who you’re hiring?
There are no licenses required to call yourself a dog trainer. State and national governments do not regulate the industry. There is no group that looks at what’s covered at a school for dog trainers to make sure it’s accurate and adequate.

Hiring a dog trainer (http://www.petspress.net/articles/2007/jan2007/trainer.html)

[borzoimom]

This is my understanding from reading through the post -- please correct me if i'm wrong :)

Using examples sort of ...
However, like in Ex.2, a Dog Training license may not be recognized from workplace to workplace, state to state, or country to country etc.

Exactly!
I am enjoying this because apparently alot of states do not do this. Leave it to Va. to slam us with laws.. lol..

[mike001]

I don't know what it's like in the United States but in Canada, anyone can call themselves a dog trainer. Heck, anyone can call themselves a "certified dog trainer".. just print out a certificate and there ya go!

I teach private and group classes. I've never been certified (though joining CAPPDT is on my to-do list).. everything I know is through hands-on experience and trial and error. I've mentored with behaviorists and trainers and have gone to seminars, but I've never been certified. :)


Wherever did you get the idea that in Canada we can call ourselves dog trainers and teach without certification and licensing? We go to the same college as we do for horse studies except take dog studies, We first have to have put five dogs through cgc, td, cd,cdx,ud, tx and shutzhund. We then have to judge at matches and local shows for 1 yr. Meanwhile we are also volunteering to do classes for our kennel club. When we do get to judge an obedience show, we do so under the supervision of a renowned judge who marks us as we judge. You have to judge 5 formal shows . Then an obedience judge will put you through your paces and watch you handle a class of dogs and will certify that you are eligible to teach on your own. Meanwhile, if you intend to make a career of this you can apply for a licence. The reason many don't apply for a licence is because of the tax grab.
Sure, we have pet stores that will hire young people to train in the store, but it isn't exactly training, more socialization. The dogs don't even learn to sit.
But isn't there always going to be self made trainers who think that following a book or watching a video qualifies them?

[borzoimom]

Wherever did you get the idea that in Canada we can call ourselves dog trainers and teach without certification and licensing? We go to the same college as we do for horse studies except take dog studies, We first have to have put five dogs through cgc, td, cd,cdx,ud, tx and shutzhund. We then have to judge at matches and local shows for 1 yr. Meanwhile we are also volunteering to do classes for our kennel club. When we do get to judge an obedience show, we do so under the supervision of a renowned judge who marks us as we judge. You have to judge 5 formal shows . Then an obedience judge will put you through your paces and watch you handle a class of dogs and will certify that you are eligible to teach on your own. Meanwhile, if you intend to make a career of this you can apply for a licence. The reason many don't apply for a licence is because of the tax grab.
Sure, we have pet stores that will hire young people to train in the store, but it isn't exactly training, more socialization. The dogs don't even learn to sit.
But isn't there always going to be self made trainers who think that following a book or watching a video qualifies them?
Its like that here, but the prior titles were part of acceptance in the school to have you certified. In order to be on the higher levels you have to have demonstrative proof of prior handled titled dogs..

[agilityk9trainer]

Licensing for dogs trainers doesn't exist in any state in the US. Period. You DON'T need a license to open a dog training business anywhere - including Virginia. You just hang out a shingle and go. How do I know? I'm a professional trainer who networks with trainers from all over the country.

Certification can come from "schools," however, it really doesn't mean anything. Many of these "schools" are scams, and charge excessive amounts of money for something you can do in a local training club. The only certification I like and have any respect for is APDT. However, even that isn't monitered. A trainer could sign up with APDT, stating they engage in positive training, and turn around and use shock collars.

Borziomom is wrong on this issue. Hands down. No state requires dog trainers to be licensed. Dr. Goodnow has posted the correct information all along. I find people who say that certification or licensing is important are those who have paid large amounts of money to get these worthless pieces of paper.

Why is it important to know if licensing really exists or not? Simple. Students who don't know put their trust in this worthless piece of paper. They feel it has real teeth behind it, when in fact, it doesn't. So, they are basically being taken for a ride. As far as proving you're bonded and insured, all you have to do is show a student your insurance papers to prove that. You don't need a license. I wouldn't waste my time or money on any of these gimicks.

As far as ABC certification, some certifications do require some training and hands-on. experience. This type of certification would carry more weight than others. However, a person who goes this route is paying thousands of dollars for experience and training they can get at a well-run local training club for free. I'm afraid many would-be trainers are getting taken advantage of in this type of program. Yes, there is training. No, it's nothing you couldn't get on your own for free working in your local dog training systems.

Borziomom, your insistance that Virgina is different is amusing. I remember that one thread where you also insisted that large dogs couldn't do agility in AKC in Virginia only as well. I would be very interested to see any proof of your statement that Virigina requires dog trainers to be licensed. As everything governmental wise is on the web in my state, I'd think you'd find the same in your's.

[caseysmom]

State of Virginia
Name -address- certification number- .. received from.. on date, last renewal -- , licensed by number ( state number) certification for following --- ( sch./ puppy/intermediate/ advanced/ handling-show, police training of corp/ tracking/ seach & rescue. Subject to re-certification on - ( date), subject to license - ( date). This license is granted only under items listed with no further action granted. Bearer of license is currently bonded, and insured, with certifacations as listed above. Signed- issuer date. Verification of certication by - ( name of person on file or last checked person) on date -

So what this a certificate from a class or issued by the government?

[binka_nugget]

Wherever did you get the idea that in Canada we can call ourselves dog trainers and teach without certification and licensing? We go to the same college as we do for horse studies except take dog studies, We first have to have put five dogs through cgc, td, cd,cdx,ud, tx and shutzhund. We then have to judge at matches and local shows for 1 yr. Meanwhile we are also volunteering to do classes for our kennel club. When we do get to judge an obedience show, we do so under the supervision of a renowned judge who marks us as we judge. You have to judge 5 formal shows . Then an obedience judge will put you through your paces and watch you handle a class of dogs and will certify that you are eligible to teach on your own. Meanwhile, if you intend to make a career of this you can apply for a licence. The reason many don't apply for a licence is because of the tax grab.
Sure, we have pet stores that will hire young people to train in the store, but it isn't exactly training, more socialization. The dogs don't even learn to sit.
But isn't there always going to be self made trainers who think that following a book or watching a video qualifies them?

As far as I know, there isn't a law stating the requirements for someone to call themselves a dog trainer. There are places to get certified and recognized.. CWCC, CAPPDT, Prewitt, APDT, etc.. but there isn't one sole organization that all trainers HAVE TO belong to. Would I go to a trainer who did everything you mentioned over someone from Petsmart? You bet! Even before I started teaching I always picked my trainers carefully.. but there's nothing stopping the average person from deciding to call themselves a dog trainer. There are plenty of trainers here who have never been certified by an organization and are making a living from training dogs.

[borzoimom]

So what this a certificate from a class or issued by the government?
The certification came from a 10 week course. They give you a certificate with a number on it. It was involved when I did it. They didnt take just anyone.

[applesmom]

State of Virginia
Name -address- certification number- .. received from.. on date, last renewal -- , licensed by number ( state number) certification for following --- ( sch./ puppy/intermediate/ advanced/ handling-show, police training of corp/ tracking/ seach & rescue. Subject to re-certification on - ( date), subject to license - ( date). This license is granted only under items listed with no further action granted. Bearer of license is currently bonded, and insured, with certifacations as listed above. Signed- issuer date. Verification of certication by - ( name of person on file or last checked person) on date -


That is a business license, possibly required by the school. Agilityk9trainer is correct, none of the states regulate dog trainers other than those I posted earlier which is guide dog trainers and sentry dog trainers.

[caseysmom]

The certification came from a 10 week course. They give you a certificate with a number on it. It was involved when I did it. They didnt take just anyone.

I am sure they didn't...no doubt you had to come up with some money :D

[DrKym]

o..

1. Dog Training Licenses are not mandated by any government (state, province or country) = Not government mandated

2. Dog Training Licenses are not mandaged by the industry (no centralized body overseeing the Dog Training industry) = Not industry mandated

3. Dog Training Licenses -may- be mandated by an individual workplace, in conjunction with accredited schools, training facilities, colleges, universities, etc. = Possibly individual workplace mandated
4. Dog Training licenses look good if you have a personal business, as something to supplement a portfolio to present to potential clients.

This is a copy froma PM from Blue-Frog

Pasted by permission.

In answer
YES EXACTLY
You got it correct Blue_Frog

[borzoimom]

I am sure they didn't...no doubt you had to come up with some money :D
Boy you aren't kidding. It was 2 grand last time- and I was gone from home for 10 weeks. I doubt at this point its worth it. Next time I will have 5 borzois ( my 4 and galinas pup).. And for what- to be able to teach in a state run place like a state park or a high school? I have class tonight in handling. My basement was soaked with water for 12 hours from a broken water heater, used every towel I own, AND 5 hours with a shop vac in 24 hours. We have hot water now with a new heater- but I am dead tired. AND MEANWHILE- trying to get the back suite ready before Galina leaves to be bred so I do not have to do it when she comes back so she can get use to everything.
After reading the posts above- I am like- why the heck would I have to go through sooooooooo much garbage.. Its really stupid! The first time was it was required to train police dogs- but all these years later- I really wonder I will tell ya.. No one cares anyway .. Jeez!

[mike001]

I am sure they didn't...no doubt you had to come up with some money :D

Coming up with money was the least of the worries. Going to college to study dog nutinion, dog behaviors, illnesses, etc, just to name a few was a lot tougher than finding the money. They marked you hard, fair but hard.
So what eveybody is saying in effect is that these so called owner trained service dogs are legal and we and everyone else spent our money foolishly and wasted our time?
I can just go out and hang my shingle proclaiming that I train service dogs?
I also wasted my time trying to get the best education that I could to learn about training dogs, when all I had to do was post an ad in my local paper and advertise myself as a dog trainer and take somebody's money?
Well, for myself, I'd rather have the satisfaction of an education under my belt.

[applesmom]

o..

1. Dog Training Licenses are not mandated by any government (state, province or country) = Not government mandated

2. Dog Training Licenses are not mandaged by the industry (no centralized body overseeing the Dog Training industry) = Not industry mandated

3. Dog Training Licenses -may- be mandated by an individual workplace, in conjunction with accredited schools, training facilities, colleges, universities, etc. = Possibly individual workplace mandated
4. Dog Training licenses look good if you have a personal business, as something to supplement a portfolio to present to potential clients.

This is a copy froma PM from Blue-Frog

Pasted by permission.

In answer
YES EXACTLY
You got it correct Blue_Frog

Yes she got it right! Which brings us back to the original question. Who issues dog training licenses and what are the qualifications?

[mike001]

In Canada you apply to your own town's council for any licence, including a dog training licence. After reviewing your qualifications and with the 3 referrences you supply they have the last word.

[agilityk9trainer]

Coming up with money was the least of the worries. Going to college to study dog nutinion, dog behaviors, illnesses, etc, just to name a few was a lot tougher than finding the money. They marked you hard, fair but hard.
So what eveybody is saying in effect is that these so called owner trained service dogs are legal and we and everyone else spent our money foolishly and wasted our time?
I can just go out and hang my shingle proclaiming that I train service dogs?
I also wasted my time trying to get the best education that I could to learn about training dogs, when all I had to do was post an ad in my local paper and advertise myself as a dog trainer and take somebody's money?
Well, for myself, I'd rather have the satisfaction of an education under my belt.

Mike, w'ere talking about the US, not Canada. Also, in the US people CAN become animal behaviorists. These folks DO have real education from accredited universities under their belts. Their education does matter and is important.

For the average professional dog trainer, certificiations aren't needed.

[applesmom]

Coming up with money was the least of the worries. Going to college to study dog nutinion, dog behaviors, illnesses, etc, just to name a few was a lot tougher than finding the money. They marked you hard, fair but hard.
So what eveybody is saying in effect is that these so called owner trained service dogs are legal and we and everyone else spent our money foolishly and wasted our time?
I can just go out and hang my shingle proclaiming that I train service dogs?
I also wasted my time trying to get the best education that I could to learn about training dogs, when all I had to do was post an ad in my local paper and advertise myself as a dog trainer and take somebody's money?
Well, for myself, I'd rather have the satisfaction of an education under my belt.

No one is denying the importance of education mike001. In my 30 year involvement in the dog fancy, I've been to more seminars and classes than I can remember, trained more dogs than I care to admit, and enjoyed every single moment of it. I still wouldn't have to be licensed anywhere in the United States if I wanted to put out my shingle as a dog trainer.

[DrKym]

Yes she got it right! Which brings us back to the original question. Who issues dog training licenses and what are the qualifications?

Applesmom,
There are no LICENSED trainer. You can be certified. You do need to pass a state course for working with Service animals for the BLIND, and Police K9 training.

Those courses are both worthwile, if you plan on training these types of animals as a carreer. In the case of Police work, it is a no brainer that learning the craft helps cut down on injuries. To animal and human.

So in answer to your question, for an average trainer 99.9 % NONE for the few that do police K9 in all 4 states that I trained it was state certified from other K9 trainers that had established themselves. AgilityK9 would be better equipped to answer more in depth than I as it has been more than 10 yrs since I have trained a Police unit.

And as for Serivce animals the only proof or liscence required is for the
Blind. That is done through passing the certification process. State run but mandates come from the suggestions in ADA requirement of what tha animal should do as a guide dog.

[applesmom]

Applesmom,
There are no LICENSED trainer. You can be certified. You do need to pass a state course for working with Service animals for the BLIND, and Police K9 training.

Those courses are both worthwile, if you plan on training these types of animals as a carreer. In the case of Police work, it is a no brainer that learning the craft helps cut down on injuries. To animal and human.

So in answer to your question, for an average trainer 99.9 % NONE for the few that do police K9 in all 4 states that I trained it was state certified from other K9 trainers that had established themselves. AgilityK9 would be better equipped to answer more in depth than I as it has been more than 10 yrs since I have trained a Police unit.

And as for Serivce animals the only proof or liscence required is for the
Blind. That is done through passing the certification process. State run but mandates come from the suggestions in ADA requirement of what tha animal should do as a guide dog.

Great! It took 5 pages but we finally got those questions answered! ;)

[DrKym]

Tried to answer them earlier! :p ;) :D

[applesmom]

Tried to answer them earlier! :p ;) :D

I heard ya all along! ;)

[borzoimom]

Okay- lets see if I have this right- do not go to a dog trainer in Arizona or Ill. because none of their trainers are certified or licensed or bonded.. Good thing to remember- thank you!
So if I went to Arizona- and someones dog attacks my dog, the trainer is not certified to teach,by admission never taught dogs before, and nor licensed or bonded to pay for damages.. Hmm good point- TRUST ME I will never go there..

[caseysmom]

Who mentioned Arizona or Ill??? I am totally confused now....

[borzoimom]

Who mentioned Arizona or Ill??? I am totally confused now....
applesmom lives in arizona according to profile ,and kym lives in Il.

[DrKym]

applesmom lives in arizona according to profile ,and kym lives in Il.


Or any other state.Certification is not required in any state.

[agilityk9trainer]

Okay- lets see if I have this right- do not go to a dog trainer in Arizona or Ill. because none of their trainers are certified or licensed or bonded.. Good thing to remember- thank you!
So if I went to Arizona- and someones dog attacks my dog, the trainer is not certified to teach,by admission never taught dogs before, and nor licensed or bonded to pay for damages.. Hmm good point- TRUST ME I will never go there..

You'll find the same thing in Virigina, so watch out!! :p

Actually and seriously, this is why I spend so much time and money putting titles on my dogs. Titles DO prove I have a level of training experience. The certifications, etc., really don't mean much, but titles do prove something. It's even better when my STUDENTS get titles on their dogs. Then, it proves I can not only train my own dogs, but teach others to successfully compete with their dogs.

Personally, I wouldn't want government stepping into dog training. They would require us all to conform to their cookie cutter methods of training. As it stands, we are able to provide a wide variety of methods to train. A potential student who knows what they are looking for can find the right trainer to fit their dog and their training philosophies. However, by allowing this freedom, you will run into trainers who are ill-equipped to do the job - certifications or no. As long as training methods don't run into the abusive, the government should allow the wide variety of methods available.

That doesn't mean that I don't get "up in arms" about some of the methods out there, but I also wouldn't want the government involved in regulating training beyond the powers to make areests for abusive treatment.

As for insurance and bonding, as I have said, if it's a concern of a student, just ask to see the trainers insurance/bonding papers.

[mike001]

Well, let's just say I'm glad I don't live in the states if that's the way things are. If I needed a trainer in the states, it would mean that I'm on my own...unless I look for borzoid mom who is bonded. I wouldn't want my dogs or myself mauled because someone decided that being a trainer would be fun.
So who do these trainers pay taxes to if they aren't licenced, is it all money under the table?
Well, that also answers my question about the ADA and why Canada doesn't recognize their laws....they're self made.

[caseysmom]

applesmom lives in arizona according to profile ,and kym lives in Il.

So what does that have to do with the cost of tea in china?

[NicoleLJ]

Just so everyone knows there is no regulatory certifaction or lisensing of trainers in Canada either. A dog trainer here does not have to be liscensed or certified with anyone. If I wanted to right now I could go out and purchase a business liscense form my town and start training dogs. In fact I have considered it on many occasions. You do not have to be school trained here to train dogs or certified to train dogs proffesionally. Just thought I should clear that up.
Nicole

[Ceph]

I just wanted to put something out to agilityk9trainer -

some of us dont have the luxury of obedience clubs near us...so what do we do? All we can do is take the learning we can get and work with it until we are ready to do our own thing. I did my training in conjucture with the equine training and behavior class last semester (they only teach horse behavior at mny school, not companion animal, but alot of the basic theories are the same, though equine training is by far the more dangerous), plus a companion animal class this semester....and helping out with a friends dog....but I cant drive the hour to roanoke to find an obedience club...so I took the other avenue available to me. I feel like I have learned alot, but I know need to learn more (still not done though), which is why I dont intend to just randomly start out on my own...its why I buy books, ask questions and attended classes with my own puppy myself.

please dont make those up us that chose to go with a cert. program sound like fools that got taken advantage of....its obnoxious.

[applesmom]

Well, let's just say I'm glad I don't live in the states if that's the way things are. If I needed a trainer in the states, it would mean that I'm on my own...unless I look for borzoid mom who is bonded. I wouldn't want my dogs or myself mauled because someone decided that being a trainer would be fun.
So who do these trainers pay taxes to if they aren't licenced, is it all money under the table?
Well, that also answers my question about the ADA and why Canada doesn't recognize their laws....they're self made.

mike001 you missed the point, there is no such thing as a "licensed" dog trainer in the USA except as Drgoodnow mentioned above. Being a law abiding business person (which the majority of successful dog trainers are) is a whole other kettle of fish. They pay taxes and have insurance just like any other business owner.

[Ginger's Mom]

I didn't know that dog trainers are regulated or had to be licensed in the united states. Are they licensed by the city, state or county? What kind of qualifications are required in order to become a licensed dog trainer?
I am confused as to the purpose of this thread. Did you pose a question that you had already researched and to which you already had an answer? It would appear that way from your responses to some of the posts. And if you did, the question would be why did you feel the need to do so? If you wanted to share the information that you already had you certainly could have done so without so much hoopla and debate.

[Ceph]

I am confused as to the purpose of this thread. Did you pose a question that you had already researched and to which you already had an answer? It would appear that way from your responses to some of the posts. And if you did, the question would be why did you feel the need to do so? If you wanted to share the information that you already had you certainly could have done so without so much hoopla and debate.

That's also probably true too.

(shame on me for getting involved, but eh)

[NicoleLJ]

mike001 you missed the point, there is no such thing as a "licensed" dog trainer in the USA except as Drgoodnow mentioned above. Being a law abiding business person (which the majority of successful dog trainers are) is a whole other kettle of fish. They pay taxes and have insurance just like any other business owner.

The same is for Canada. They do have to get a business liscense, just like any business would and that is how they would go about paying taxes, but as for a specific liscense to be a dog trainer or certifaction or schooling, it is not required in Canada either.
Nicole

[applesmom]

I am confused as to the purpose of this thread. Did you pose a question that you had already researched and to which you already had an answer? It would appear that way from your responses to some of the posts. And if you did, the question would be why did you feel the need to do so? If you wanted to share the information that you already had you certainly could have done so without so much hoopla and debate.

Nope! I researched it as the discussion progressed!

[agilityk9trainer]

I just wanted to put something out to agilityk9trainer -

some of us dont have the luxury of obedience clubs near us...so what do we do? All we can do is take the learning we can get and work with it until we are ready to do our own thing. I did my training in conjucture with the equine training and behavior class last semester (they only teach horse behavior at mny school, not companion animal, but alot of the basic theories are the same, though equine training is by far the more dangerous), plus a companion animal class this semester....and helping out with a friends dog....but I cant drive the hour to roanoke to find an obedience club...so I took the other avenue available to me. I feel like I have learned alot, but I know need to learn more (still not done though), which is why I dont intend to just randomly start out on my own...its why I buy books, ask questions and attended classes with my own puppy myself.

please dont make those up us that chose to go with a cert. program sound like fools that got taken advantage of....its obnoxious.


LOL!! I've never been called obnoxious. :)

I can see in your situation where you might seek some outside help. However, if I remember rightly, ABC costs about $3,000. I wouldn't pay that. I, had to drive TWO hours one-way to get the training I desired from my training mentor. I did it often, and still attempt to do so as time permits. If you really want to get good, you make these sacrifices. I am now considering driving 1/2 way across the US to get to a trainer I much admire. This is what you have to do to better yourself. However, the training you get from ABC is pretty basic. If it's stuff you can get with an easy hour's drive from your house, then I'd certainly go that route instead. Not only will you learn, but you will also develop local contacts and increase your rep. among the doggie community. Training alone at home will not give you these valuable contacts and reputation. In our business, reputation becomes everything.

If you want to get good, you make sacrifices. Back in the early 90s when agility was just starting, people in my area had to drive for 10 hours to get their training. And, they did it. Two hours is nothing compared to that. You do what you have to do to get good.

[DrKym]

Well, let's just say I'm glad I don't live in the states if that's the way things are. If I needed a trainer in the states, it would mean that I'm on my own...unless I look for borzoid mom who is bonded. I wouldn't want my dogs or myself mauled because someone decided that being a trainer would be fun.
So who do these trainers pay taxes to if they aren't licenced, is it all money under the table?
Well, that also answers my question about the ADA and why Canada doesn't recognize their laws....they're self made.

ADA of 1990 is a FEDERAL law, hardly self made.

You may want to finish the research you haven't done from the service dog thread before spouting false information YET again. :rolleyes:

[NicoleLJ]

ADA of 1990 is a FEDERAL law, hardly self made.

You may want to finish the research you haven't done from the service dog thread before spouting false information YET again. :rolleyes:

I second that.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

Sorry guys- even Utah required a trainer to be licensed- READ IT AND WEEP.. I also have the Va. State law of license coming to me by email- I will post it later- off to class in 15 minutes..
http://www.dopl.utah.gov/licensing/forms/031.pdf

[DrKym]

Yes and a Pharmeceutical Dog falls under DEA and Police recognition.
that is not a requirement to train pets. Sorry Michelle

[NicoleLJ]

Sorry guys- even Utah required a trainer to be licensed- READ IT AND WEEP.. I also have the Va. State law of license coming to me by email- I will post it later- off to class in 15 minutes..
http://www.dopl.utah.gov/licensing/forms/031.pdf

Actually that doesn't prove anything. It says that is for liscensing a Pharmaceutical Dog Trainer, a dog trainer that uses controled substances to train dogs. I would hope anyone in the business of using a controled substance for any reason would HAVE to be liscensed. As for "regular" dog trainers it don't see anywhere where it talks about them. Only ones that use controlded substances.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

Yes and a Pharmeceutical Dog falls under DEA and Police recognition.
that is not a requirement to train pets. Sorry Michelle
It does for me- you forgot who I worked for when I started Kym- think about it..
I do not care what other poeple do, but with my past in training for k-9 and customs- maybe that is why the difference.

[NicoleLJ]

It does for me- you forgot who I worked for when I started Kym- think about it..
I do not care what other poeple do, but with my past in training for k-9 and customs- maybe that is why the difference.

Yes and custom dogs are trained to smell out drugs hence using a controled substances and why those trainers of those dogs would NEED to be liscensed. But for a regular dog trainer they do not use controled substanses and do not legally have to be liscensed, certified or the like.
Nicole

[agilityk9trainer]

It does for me- you forgot who I worked for when I started Kym- think about it..
I do not care what other poeple do, but with my past in training for k-9 and customs- maybe that is why the difference.

Are you currently training customs/police dogs? I would think with that background you would know the difference between the need for licensing for customs work and "licensing" for pet training, which is all you are doing now.

[Ceph]

LOL!! I've never been called obnoxious. :)

I can see in your situation where you might seek some outside help. However, if I remember rightly, ABC costs about $3,000. I wouldn't pay that. I, had to drive TWO hours one-way to get the training I desired from my training mentor. I did it often, and still attempt to do so as time permits. If you really want to get good, you make these sacrifices. I am now considering driving 1/2 way across the US to get to a trainer I much admire. This is what you have to do to better yourself. However, the training you get from ABC is pretty basic. If it's stuff you can get with an easy hour's drive from your house, then I'd certainly go that route instead. Not only will you learn, but you will also develop local contacts and increase your rep. among the doggie community. Training alone at home will not give you these valuable contacts and reputation. In our business, reputation becomes everything.

If you want to get good, you make sacrifices. Back in the early 90s when agility was just starting, people in my area had to drive for 10 hours to get their training. And, they did it. Two hours is nothing compared to that. You do what you have to do to get good.

Dude, I'm at a senior military college. I wear uniform 5-7 days a week and I have to request leave to drive anywhere....I take 18 credit hours a semester and I am at a technical school(Virginia Tech) which is a wildly difficult school to attend....tell me when I have time to drive two hours to go anywhere. I have a curfew, I have a certain number of leaves a semester, and not only that, I am a member of the military marching band (which is also my company). I havent had a single 'normal year' of college....I study, I march, I clean my room, attend class and press my uniform, I attend Guard Drill and I work in a shelter and with my mentor. I wake up at five and go to bed at midnight, I exercise regulalry because it's expected, and I go out to the barns to check on the horses that are a part of my classes. I dont see my parents or my brother ever because my weekends are taken up doing military and Guard duties. Maybe if I am lucky I see my boyfriend of a year. I cant wait to get out of college because for once I might actually have *time* to do things. Believe me when I say I know what sacrifice is...And driving two hours is not a sacrifice I can make.

Though it is nice that my mentor is in addition to being a ABC cert. teacher and agility teacher with alot of students in the local area....thats pretty good in my mind.

It also helps that my car is 15 years old and falling apart at the wheels...I decided to do this because I love working with dogs, and because when I do graduate I need a job outside of the National Guard...Dog training seemed like a logical choice, and once I do graduate and have time I will work with others, but until then I take the avenues available to me.

[agilityk9trainer]

Dude, I'm at a senior military college. I wear uniform 5-7 days a week and I have to request leave to drive anywhere....I take 18 credit hours a semester and I am at a technical school(Virginia Tech) which is a wildly difficult school to attend....tell me when I have time to drive two hours to go anywhere. I have a curfew, I have a certain number of leaves a semester, and not only that, I am a member of the military marching band (which is also my company). I havent had a single 'normal year' of college....I study, I march, I clean my room, attend class and press my uniform, I attend Guard Drill and I work in a shelter and with my mentor. I wake up at five and go to bed at midnight, I exercise regulalry because it's expected, and I go out to the barns to check on the horses that are a part of my classes. Maybe if I am lucky I see my boyfriend of a year. I cant wait to get out of college because for once I might actually have *time* to do things.

Though it is nice that my mentor is in addition to being a ABC cert. teacher and agility teacher with alot of students in the local area....thats pretty good in my mind.


I'm not a "dude." And, if you're that busy, then I doubt you're getting the hands-on experience you really need to become a great trainer, making my suspecisions of ABC grow even stronger.

If you're so busy you can't even drive an hour away, then you are not ready to become a dog trainer. It takes time and energy. Lots of both. And, determination to get with the best trainers possible.

Like I said, if you want to get good, you make the sacrifices. If you can't make them, then you can't get good.

If you want to get great, the sacrifices become even more intense.

The choice is your's. Of course, I can see why you bristle at my opinion of ABC. You've spent a lot of money to get certified with them. I'm sorry you're offended, but you CAN get for free what ABC is charging you $3,000 for (even if you have to drive an hour to do so). The truth sometimes stings.

[Ceph]

I call everyone dude, so dont worry about it.

Honostly, I dont care as much what you think...what matters is that I do the best for the people I work with. What's important is the willingness to learn about it, to try and make yourself better. It might take me a little longer to get there, but I'll be danged if I dont. To be able to accept new idea's...it's why when I get out of here I am going to start small and work my way up...because I figure I will learn more that way...It's also why I spend my spare time reading...because I learn from that as well...

Plus, I have a great background in animals. I may know more about horses, but my major requires general animal behavioral classes, genetics, repro, anatomy, phys, and nutrition. You know, a BS in Animal Sciences can't hurt at all....and that took only five years to achieve...and a five hour drive....to add to that I learned a whoooole lot about discipline and business behavior, which cant hurt either.

People can get to the same place through different methods...It takes time and work, but one way isnt always the only way. Do what works for you...for me it wasnt about the money...The National Guard pays my tuition, which helps me out alot....so I dont care whether or not I wasted it....I feel like I have had a rewarding experience...and thats what matters to me...that I got something out of it.

I have also learned to not be intolerant of different methods of doing things...one should do what works best for them. Being intolerant of different ways people do things...is well....kinda obnoxious.

[mike001]

Dr.Goodnow..........Federal Laws in the states do not apply to Canadians.
And those fedral laws say a lot more than what some people use as proof for everything.
Sorry, I still have to hold my ground on trained and licenced trainers.
Maybe if all the trainers were required to pass graduate and pass test and be evaluated the shelters wouldn't be so full.

[DrKym]

Dr.Goodnow..........Federal Laws in the states do not apply to Canadians.
And those fedral laws say a lot more than what some people use as proof for everything.
Sorry, I still have to hold my ground on trained and licenced trainers.
Maybe if all the trainers were required to pass graduate and pass test and be evaluated the shelters wouldn't be so full.

So you quote our laws, knowing nothing about them? Then you quote non existant Canadian laws, and you want to hold your ground?

Well just keep treading water, with all your flailing your bound to go under in your pool!

[borzoimom]

Are you currently training customs/police dogs? I would think with that background you would know the difference between the need for licensing for customs work and "licensing" for pet training, which is all you are doing now.
It goes by what the certification says. Unless I want to go back though- spending weeks from home again, it wont change. And I do not have time, nor care but that does explain why I have to be licensed and others dont. Actually I have wondered why for a long time. Thanks all..
I cant leave home all those weeks with 4 and a litter on the way- I do not see going back this year at all. And now- after reading all this- why should I bother.. jeez- I think its been over kill on my end, and after all these years, if they want me to continue- they can let go the requirement as far as I am concerned.

[NicoleLJ]

Maybe if all the trainers were required to pass graduate and pass test and be evaluated the shelters wouldn't be so full.

See that right there, out of your own mouth, shows you KNOW that it is not required legally. That trainers do not legally have to be certified or liscensed. So basically it is only your OPINION that they should be. Legal requirements and opinions are two totally different things.
Nicole

[pessimisaurus]

Basically any joe on the street can call themselves a dog trainer. thats why its so important to do your research when choosing one. the woman I trained under has written out some info on telling the difference btw the different terms people use (i.e. "behaviorist", "trainer", "behavior specialist", etc) on our site: http://www.seattledogs.com/faqs.htm#how

[agilityk9trainer]

Ceph,

I wish you good luck in your dog training endeavors.

[mike001]

Dr. Goodnow....the ADA laws are all over the internet for everyone to read.
As for our Canadian laws I respect the ones that pertain to me.

I guess if people want to put out their money to train with a self made trainers that's their business.
I will stand with the certified licensed trainers that I know and admire.

[borzoimom]

...I guess if people want to put out their money to train with a self made trainers that's their business.
I will stand with the certified licensed trainers that I know and admire.
That seems to be the general idea around here- I always have a waiting list for classes.

[applesmom]

It goes by what the certification says. Unless I want to go back though- spending weeks from home again, it wont change. And I do not have time, nor care but that does explain why I have to be licensed and others dont. Actually I have wondered why for a long time. Thanks all..
I cant leave home all those weeks with 4 and a litter on the way- I do not see going back this year at all. And now- after reading all this- why should I bother.. jeez- I think its been over kill on my end, and after all these years, if they want me to continue- they can let go the requirement as far as I am concerned.

Who is they?

[caseysmom]

Sorry guys- even Utah required a trainer to be licensed- READ IT AND WEEP.. I also have the Va. State law of license coming to me by email- I will post it later- off to class in 15 minutes..
http://www.dopl.utah.gov/licensing/forms/031.pdf


Did your class get cancelled?

[DrKym]

Dr. Goodnow....the ADA laws are all over the internet for everyone to read.
As for our Canadian laws I respect the ones that pertain to me.

I guess if people want to put out their money to train with a self made trainers that's their business.
I will stand with the certified licensed trainers that I know and admire.

Canadian laws are also on the internet, none of which require a dog trainer to be certified or liscened.

Now I know how you love to hijack threads with your silly petulant arguments, that mean nothing, so I will once again tell you to enjoy your flailing.

The original question in this thread has been answered. Your inability to verify your spouts and rants, are tiresome, although you seem to enjoy trying to rile people up, to cover your lack of research or any supporting facts pertaining to your claims. Legal or otherwise. You are and have been proven wrong on several points that you still continue to drag out and beat as a truth. Do yourself a favor and understand that it is futile to try to bend reality to fit what you want it to be. It simply is, and it does not change based on your whims, a falsity posted a million times by you still doesn't make a truth.

[mike001]

Canadian laws are also on the internet, none of which require a dog trainer to be certified or liscened.

Now I know how you love to hijack threads with your silly petulant arguments, that mean nothing, so I will once again tell you to enjoy your flailing.

The original question in this thread has been answered. Your inability to verify your spouts and rants, are tiresome, although you seem to enjoy trying to rile people up, to cover your lack of research or any supporting facts pertaining to your claims. Legal or otherwise. You are and have been proven wrong on several points that you still continue to drag out and beat as a truth. Do yourself a favor and understand that it is futile to try to bend reality to fit what you want it to be. It simply is, and it does not change based on your whims, a falsity posted a million times by you still doesn't make a truth.

Dr goodnow----Our towns and cities laws are not posted on the net.
Actually I don't flail, I am a very good swimmer for our university team.
Yes, the original questiopn has been answered to my satisfaction by Borzoidmom.
As previously stated...judge not, lest you judge the wrong person.
I post what my beliefs are and I stand by them.
If I want or need a trainer, I will go to someone with the required certification, licensing, experience, references and satisfied customers.
People waiting in line to train with a specific trainer while there are many others to choose from speaks volumes to me.

[NicoleLJ]

Dr goodnow----Our towns and cities laws are not posted on the net.
Actually I don't flail, I am a very good swimmer for our university team.

If I want or need a trainer, I will go to someone with the required certification, licensing, experience, references and satisfied customers.
People waiting in line to train with a specific trainer while there are many others to choose from speaks volumes to me.


Our towns and cities bylaws are online. Would you like me to post links to some? Theya re all avalable online. As for your swimming, is there anything you can't do? Seems like you have eitehr done everything or are doing everything. Never met someone with sooo much experience and expertise in so many areas.

Your last paragraph is wrong where you say they are REQUIRED to have certifaction. Show me the proof that they are required to have it? I always ask you for proof and you NEVER give any. If you can give some then maybe so many people would not have such a hard time believing your rantings. As for people waiting in lines for Certified trainers, I know many trainers that are not certified that are awsome and always have a long waiting list. Certifaction means nothing in teh way of if someone is a good trainer or not. I also know some certified trainers whom I would never go to. All certifaction is is a piece of paper.

Please do us all a favor when you post, start off with saying that something is your opinion. That is what everyone else does. Don't post something as fact or law unless you can back it up otherwise all it is is your opinion.
Nicole

[DrKym]

Dr goodnow----Our towns and cities laws are not posted on the net.
Actually I don't flail, I am a very good swimmer for our university team.
Yes, the original questiopn has been answered to my satisfaction by Borzoidmom.
As previously stated...judge not, lest you judge the wrong person.
I post what my beliefs are and I stand by them.
If I want or need a trainer, I will go to someone with the required certification, licensing, experience, references and satisfied customers.
People waiting in line to train with a specific trainer while there are many others to choose from speaks volumes to me.


Actually Mike, Bmom was proven wrong to the original question also. She at least had the class to admit it.

[borzoimom]

I have a license and now I know why- and you know it Kym.. And its because of what my certification is ..My 5 level certification requires a license. So I guess that would mean trainers are only licensed if at my level.

[mike001]

Well, Dr. Goodnow, Boirzoidmom's answer is good enough for me. And seeing that she has people standing in line for her classes then she would be my choice for a trainer.

[DrKym]

It is not required to be liscened or certified in any state in US to train dogs.

You need to be liscened and certified as stated earlier if you are training Police units, DEA units and/or Service dogs for the blind.

So the answer to the original question, as to whether trainers are required by law to be certified train a dog is No. 99.9% of trainers certified or otherwise will never even get near a Police dog, DEA dog (unless they travel and bring back things they shouldn't) and most dog trainers I know are not blind.

As to the original question if there is a Blanket organization that oversees or regulates dog trainers as a whole. the answer sadly is No.

edit: the certification in DEA is simply so you may legally have in your possesion both natural and synthetic drugs in quanties for training.

[agilityk9trainer]

It is not required to be liscened or certified in any state in US to train dogs.

You need to be liscened and certified as stated earlier if you are training Police units, DEA units and/or Service dogs for the blind.

So the answer to the original question, as to whether trainers are required by law to be certified train a dog is No. 99.9% of trainers certified or otherwise will never even get near a Police dog, DEA dog (unless they travel and bring back things they shouldn't) and most dog trainers I know are not blind.

As to the original question if there is a Blanket organization that oversees or regulates dog trainers as a whole. the answer sadly is No.

I think that sums it up. The two that are arguing otherwise are just, flat wrong, and have been proven so.

[NicoleLJ]

It is not required to be liscened or certified in any state in US to train dogs.

You need to be liscened and certified as stated earlier if you are training Police units, DEA units and/or Service dogs for the blind.

So the answer to the original question, as to whether trainers are required by law to be certified train a dog is No. 99.9% of trainers certified or otherwise will never even get near a Police dog, DEA dog (unless they travel and bring back things they shouldn't) and most dog trainers I know are not blind.

As to the original question if there is a Blanket organization that oversees or regulates dog trainers as a whole. the answer sadly is No.


The same goes for Canada.

I guess Mike you are choosing to ignore my request for proof to your statements that trainers in Canada are legally required to be certified or liscenced? I should have thought as much.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

Well, Dr. Goodnow, Boirzoidmom's answer is good enough for me. And seeing that she has people standing in line for her classes then she would be my choice for a trainer.
Thank you. My certification has over 5 things listed- by law I have to have a license because of WHAT is listed.
If jane doe that has a basic obedience or agility etc- no they are not required to be licensed- .. I am !

[mike001]

Good enough for me Borzoid, experience, credentials, and credibility with a line up is good enough for me .

[NicoleLJ]

Good enough for me Borzoid, experience, credentials, and credibility with a line up is good enough for me .


I guess this answers my question of whether you have proof or not. Thanks so much. :D
Nicole

[DrKym]

Good enough for me Borzoid, experience, credentials, and credibility with a line up is good enough for me .

Sorry mike001 I have the same credentials and experience, that is how I know borzoimom btw no D in her name dearest.
And you wouldn't get on a waiting list with me ever.
I prefer to work with people whose animals aren't brighter than they are. :rolleyes:

[borzoimom]

Good enough for me Borzoid, experience, credentials, and credibility with a line up is good enough for me .
Thats Mikes way of saying my name casual. My certifications require license and after reading all this, with my experiences, I can say this- it scares me others can claim to be certified after I have SPEND SO MUCH money, time and effort. I know who I am - ... And it scares me to death, that people that have no certification can be " a trainer- "... Jeez- no wonder behavior problems run rampant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[NicoleLJ]

Jeez- no wonder behavior problems run rampant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

I am sorry but this statement bugs me. I know many a certified trainer that have wrecked dogs with their training. And I know many a trainer who are not certified that train exceptionally great dogs. Majority of the training schools, police training centers and Service dog training facilities were strated by people who had NO certifaction. All certifaction is is a piece of paper. Nothing else. Blaming non certified trainers for the "behaviour problems run rampant" is very judgemental and is false in my opinion.
Nicole

[caseysmom]

Thats Mikes way of saying my name casual. My certifications require license and after reading all this, with my experiences, I can say this- it scares me others can claim to be certified after I have SPEND SO MUCH money, time and effort. I know who I am - ... And it scares me to death, that people that have no certification can be " a trainer- "... Jeez- no wonder behavior problems run rampant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

It seems that a lot of things scare you to death, chill out. People need to evaluate anyone they choose for a service, license or not.

[applesmom]

Thats Mikes way of saying my name casual. My certifications require license and after reading all this, with my experiences, I can say this- it scares me others can claim to be certified after I have SPEND SO MUCH money, time and effort. I know who I am - ... And it scares me to death, that people that have no certification can be " a trainer- "... Jeez- no wonder behavior problems run rampant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Whoa! :eek:

[borzoimom]

Whoa! :eek:
YUP!!! YOU heard me- no wonder we get so many posts I tried this trainer and that.
My opinion now- after reading all this- ALLLLLLLLLL TRAINERS THAT CALL THEMSELVES trainers need to be certified by a REAL SCHOOL and FORCED TO CARRY a license like I do.. This has scared me to death- mail order certificates- GOOD LORD!!!! jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez! :eek:

[DrKym]

Popcorn anyone??? :)

[NicoleLJ]

YUP!!! YOU heard me- no wonder we get so many posts I tried this trainer and that.
My opinion now- after reading all this- ALLLLLLLLLL TRAINERS THAT CALL THEMSELVES trainers need to be certified by a REAL SCHOOL and FORCED TO CARRY a license like I do.. This has scared me to death- mail order certificates- GOOD LORD!!!! jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez! :eek:

ummm why? If you can prove to me that ALL certified trainers make NO mistakes and have not ruined or caused any behavioural issues in any dogs then I will jump on your band wagon. Otherwise all you are requesting is for the government to have more control in our lives in areas where they do not need to be.
Nicole

[NicoleLJ]

Popcorn anyone??? :)

I will take some of that popcorn. Thanks.
Nicole

[caseysmom]

YUP!!! YOU heard me- no wonder we get so many posts I tried this trainer and that.
My opinion now- after reading all this- ALLLLLLLLLL TRAINERS THAT CALL THEMSELVES trainers need to be certified by a REAL SCHOOL and FORCED TO CARRY a license like I do.. This has scared me to death- mail order certificates- GOOD LORD!!!! jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez! :eek:

To be honest I would rather not have you train my dogs, you seem rather high strung to me and I would think the dogs would do better with a calmer person. Your stories change a lot, you said 2 or 3 pages before you had to be in class in 15 minutes.

[mike001]

Very well put Borz., my feelings exactly. There are just too many money hungry people out there and too many naive people who don't recognize what a good trainer is all about.
As stated, if ALL trainers were licenced our shelters might not be so full of unwanted animals with behavior problems.

[NicoleLJ]

As stated, if ALL trainers were licenced our shelters might not be so full of unwanted animals with behavior problems.

So now the amount of shelter animals is an uncertified trainers problem and fault? How does that make any sense? What does certified have to do with the amount of dogs ending up in the shelter?
Nicole

[borzoimom]

Very well put Borz., my feelings exactly. There are just too many money hungry people out there and too many naive people who don't recognize what a good trainer is all about.
As stated, if ALL trainers were licenced our shelters might not be so full of unwanted animals with behavior problems.
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.. This thread has been an eye opener- I never thought to ask if others were licensed as well.. jeez! How many times have we heard I had trainer and the problem got worse.. JEEEEEEEEZ!

[NicoleLJ]

How many times have we heard I had trainer and the problem got worse.. JEEEEEEEEZ!

And how do you KNOW that trainer that they went to wasn't certified? The trainer could have been.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

To be honest I would rather not have you train my dogs, you seem rather high strung to me and I would think the dogs would do better with a calmer person. Your stories change a lot, you said 2 or 3 pages before you had to be in class in 15 minutes.
LOLLLLLLLLLLL IF YOU HAD a high intellegence breed you would. As Dr.Goodnow knows- I have had some of the top rated, best producing dogs in the breed.. My name may have changed- but I have not.. lol.. Right Kym?

[caseysmom]

LOLLLLLLLLLLL IF YOU HAD a high intellegence breed you would. As Dr.Goodnow knows- I have had some of the top rated, best producing dogs in the breed.. My name may have changed- but I have not.. lol.. Right Kym?

Oh now my dogs are dumb...how dare you. You are over the top lady.

[NicoleLJ]

LOLLLLLLLLLLL IF YOU HAD a high intellegence breed you would.

Ummmm that was rude. I think you need to take a step back. and take a deep breath. You have no idea how intelligent her dog is so to start that was really uncalled for.
Nicole

[Kfamr]

Do you EVER stop?? :confused:

This bickering every night is incredibly annoying and why many long-term PT'ers no longer frequent as much as they used to.

[caseysmom]

Do you EVER stop?? :confused:

This bickering every night is incredibly annoying and why many long-term PT'ers no longer frequent as much as they used to.

I know many people who stay away now :(

[mike001]

Sorry mike001 I have the same credentials and experience, that is how I know borzoimom btw no D in her name dearest.
And you wouldn't get on a waiting list with me ever.
I prefer to work with people whose animals aren't brighter than they are. :rolleyes:


Dr Goodnow---I wouldn't be standing in your line. I prefer open minded non judgemental trainers who prove themselves in the public eye.
But thank you for the compliment...yes all my dogs are very smart, each and everyone having a cgc, td, cd, cdx, ud, tx and shutzund. Agility and flyball I consider playtime for them, but they also have their titles for that also.
I guess my training isn't that bad after all.
I think I'll go order my service dog capes now.

[caseysmom]

Ummmm that was rude. I think you need to take a step back. and take a deep breath. You have no idea how intelligent her dog is so to start that was really uncalled for.
Nicole

Thank you Nicole that was very sweet and to be honest I don't need intelligent dogs, I love them for them and have no need to "show off".

[agilityk9trainer]

Popcorn anyone??? :)

LOL!! I mean, really lauging out loud!!

As I stated previously, I don't want the government getting into licensing trainers. Not only does the red tape boggle the mind (try getting an agility school zoned in a city in America...talk about red tape...I'm over my head in it right now), but having the government dictate what I might or might not teach is dangerous. I'm ab all-positive trainer. What if the government decides that force training is the best and only method we should use. I refuse to use those methods. They destroy agility dogs. What if the licensing requirements are that I must conform to those force training rules...use of training collars, no clickers, no treats, etc.

The government does need to regulate abuse. No doubt there. But to require a license? Not a good idea to get the government involved.

If you want to find a good trainer, look at the trainer's students. How do they do? Do they meet the expectations you require? Visit class. Do the dogs act happy? Are the people happy? Are the dogs well-behaved for the class-level? Does the trainer offer good class management?

If you're looking for competition training, look further. Look at titles. Look at show results. Especially look at students' results. Ask around. Pull students aside and ask. With a little groundwork, you can find some excellent trainers out there.

I have hesitated posting the following, as I fear it sounds like I'm a braggart. However, here goes. While I did receive "accreditation" for free from a previous dog training employer, I do not have any "certification" or "license," as they are useless. (As was the "accreditiation") Even so, I usually have a year long waiting list and am told my reputation locally is spotless. Word has come back to me that some are calling me the best agility trainer in the state. (I do not agree, with that, BTW. There is one other trainer who exceeds me) Do I need a certification to get a rep like that? No. I need good training techniques, students who excel at the sport and my own dogs who excel as well.

You want to find a good trainer? Don't look for certification. Look for results.

[DrKym]

Dr Goodnow---I wouldn't be standing in your line. I prefer open minded non judgemental trainers who prove themselves in the public eye.
But thank you for the compliment...yes all my dogs are very smart, each and everyone having a cgc, td, cd, cdx, ud, tx and shutzund. Agility and flyball I consider playtime for them, but they also have their titles for that also.
I guess my training isn't that bad after all.
I think I'll go order my service dog capes now.
WOW
and you being disabled and all I am impressed..........with the dogs you bought.

[NicoleLJ]

Dr Goodnow---I wouldn't be standing in your line. I prefer open minded non judgemental trainers who prove themselves in the public eye.
But thank you for the compliment...yes all my dogs are very smart, each and everyone having a cgc, td, cd, cdx, ud, tx and shutzund. Agility and flyball I consider playtime for them, but they also have their titles for that also.
I guess my training isn't that bad after all.
I think I'll go order my service dog capes now.

WOW you have SUPER DOGS. Never knew a dog with expertise in so many areas. As for the service dog capes what does that have to do with anything?
Nicole

[NicoleLJ]

Thank you Nicole that was very sweet and to be honest I don't need intelligent dogs, I love them for them and have to need to "show off".

Your welcome.
Nicole

[NicoleLJ]

You want to find a good trainer? Don't look for certification. Look for results.

That was the best statement all night. Great post.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

Popcorn anyone??? :)
WHAT THE HEY.. Can I have extra butter on mine???

[agilityk9trainer]

That was the best statement all night. Great post.
Nicole

Thank you. And I agree that Caseysmom's dogs are probably quite bright. :)

[mike001]

WOW
and you being disabled and all I am impressed..........with the dogs you bought.


Of course I bought my dogs. I didn't consider myself breeder material. I've been in dogs for over 25 yrs, so yes, I do have a lot of experience.
And you claim I am disabled because I get titles on my dogs?
By the way, my dogs alays came from reputable breeders that could show me everything I was looking for in a Shepherd.

[DrKym]

Of course I bought my dogs. I didn't consider myself breeder material. I've been in dogs for over 25 yrs, so yes, I do have a lot of experience.
And you claim I am disabled because I get titles on my dogs?
By the way, my dogs alays came from reputable breeders that could show me everything I was looking for in a Shepherd.
No I assumed that as you claim to have service dogs for your issues.

Your words not mine.

[borzoimom]

Thank you. And I agree that Caseysmom's dogs are probably quite bright. :)
Agilitytrainer- you have shelties- and they are know for intellegence in the "dog world". Were you NOT able to train them by your self, you would look for a multi facet trainer- would you not? Because the breed is known for high intellegence - yes you would.
Same with shepherds etc. As a trainer needs to be on different levels for the highest of performance. Your experience with a high intellegent breed - would make you look for this right??? Thats the point- .. that doesnt mean caseymom doesnt have a smart breed- I do not even know what breed she has- but had she have a "intellegent breed" she would look for a multi facet trainer. Just like someone with border collies etc.
I do not know caseysmom at all. Never heard anything positive for me to look into it, but thats the point. Certain breeds need more stimulation than others- and thats a fact as you well know..

[borzoimom]

nachos if anyone wants them. The bar is now open.. but I do not have much- anyone care to contribute???

[mike001]

Can you print the post where I said that please?

[borzoimom]

Can you print the post where I said that please?
I got lost with that one too.. Cheese sauce anyone????????

[applesmom]

Well doggonit! Hasn't this turned into an enlightening thread? :D

Any of us can claim anything we like since we'll most likely never meet each other. But when all is said and done it doesn't matter how much we brag, what fabulous awards our dogs have won or even how smart they are.

Instead, what it all boils down to is credibility and consistency in our posts on a day to day basis. That's really all we have to go by in an anonymous online community.

There's nothing better than a lively debate until it gets sidetracked with personal issues! :eek:

[DrKym]

Can you print the post where I said that please?


You are quite capable of referencing the service dog thread.

I do not feel the need to prove my thread that you said that in, just as you seem to fail to post any link supporting any fact you propose. However several members on this thread saw you state that.

Of course you are almost as famous as another for your use of the delete button.

[NicoleLJ]

yes all my dogs are very smart, each and everyone having a cgc, td, cd, cdx, ud, tx and shutzund. Agility and flyball I consider playtime for them, but they also have their titles for that also.
.

Ummmm question. How do poms do at schutzund?

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1689517#post1689517

This is your own post and the one I am talking about is post 9.
Nicole

[applesmom]

nachos if anyone wants them. The bar is now open.. but I do not have much- anyone care to contribute???

Please don't hijack the thread with nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!

[mike001]

Pass the gin Borzmom, I need a stiff one before I retire for the night. And all I was talking about was licenced trainers.Pass the Tequila, I need something stronger to wash that taste down.

[borzoimom]

Pt way of handling stress- want some pizza???

[agilityk9trainer]

Agilitytrainer- you have shelties- and they are know for intellegence in the "dog world". Were you NOT able to train them by your self, you would look for a multi facet trainer- would you not? Because the breed is known for high intellegence - yes you would.
Same with shepherds etc. As a trainer needs to be on different levels for the highest of performance. Your experience with a high intellegent breed - would make you look for this right??? Thats the point- .. that doesnt mean caseymom doesnt have a smart breed- I do not even know what breed she has- but had she have a "intellegent breed" she would look for a multi facet trainer. Just like someone with border collies etc.
I do not know caseysmom at all. Never heard anything positive for me to look into it, but thats the point. Certain breeds need more stimulation than others- and thats a fact as you well know..

As I stated, if I were looking for a trainer, I would look at that trainer's students. I would look for results. I would NOT look for certification or license. And, I don't rate breeds on intelligence. I've met intelligent dogs in all breeds - even those breeds considered by many to be "dumb." In fact, if I had a "dumb" dog (which I even hesitate to use the phrase, as I have yet to meet a truly dumb dog), I would look even more intently for a trainer who posts great results. I'd need the best, then!

[applesmom]

Pt way of handling stress- want some pizza???

I asked you nicely and I'm asking again. Please stop the nonsense!

If you have nothing more to contribute that's fine, but please show a little common courtesy!

[agilityk9trainer]

Ummmm question. How do poms do at schutzund?

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1689517#post1689517

This is your own post and the one I am talking about is post 9.
Nicole

Mike, you have poms who do schutzund? :eek:

[DrKym]

Ummmm question. How do poms do at schutzund?

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1689517#post1689517

This is your own post and the one I am talking about is post 9.
Nicole
'
This one I am waiting on with baited breath!
I am certain she misspoke............. either all her dogs have the titles she claims.......or she doesnt have the dogs she claims...........................

hmmmmmmmmm

[mike001]

Agility---yes I do have 2 Poms, they belong to my grandaughter who lives with us since her parents died in a car crash. She does obedience with them but of course not shutzund. I consider the poms as part of our family just like my grandaughter.
I was waiting for my last two shepherds to arrive when I joined I think, not sure. But I have had shepherds for over 25 yrs myself. My son also had a small pom when he grew up. No law says we can't have more than one breed.

[borzoimom]

'
This one I am waiting on with baited breath!
I am certain she misspoke............. either all her dogs have the titles she claims.......or she doesnt have the dogs she claims...........................

hmmmmmmmmm
DYING OF LAUGHTER.. HOLY COW.. NOW I NEED A DRINK- .. HOLY COW..

[borzoimom]

Agility---yes I do have 2 Poms, they belong to my grandaughter who lives with us since her parents died in a car crash. She does obedience with them but of course not shutzund. I consider the poms as part of our family just like my grandaughter.
I was waiting for my last two shepherds to arrive when I joined I think, not sure. But I have had shepherds for over 25 yrs myself. My son also had a small pom when he grew up. No law says we can't have more than one breed.
WAIT UP A MINUTE- do you have poms in sch. training? I am soooooooo lost here.. lol..

[DrKym]

Agility---yes I do have 2 Poms, they belong to my grandaughter who lives with us since her parents died in a car crash. She does obedience with them but of course not shutzund. I consider the poms as part of our family just like my grandaughter.
I was waiting for my last two shepherds to arrive when I joined I think, not sure. But I have had shepherds for over 25 yrs myself. My son also had a small pom when he grew up. No law says we can't have more than one breed.


Please choose one drama and stick to it. The truth shall set you free. Actually with your posts it may set a lot of us onto laughter.

[borzoimom]

WAIT UP A MINUTE- do you have poms in sch. training? I am soooooooo lost here.. lol..
Mike- I thought you had shepherds???? I am sooooooooo lost..

[mike001]

You are quite capable of referencing the service dog thread.

I do not feel the need to prove my thread that you said that in, just as you seem to fail to post any link supporting any fact you propose. However several members on this thread saw you state that.

Of course you are almost as famous as another for your use of the delete button.


I have no idea what you are referring to goodnow, there is no service dog thread on this forum, unless I am totally lost. But I haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about I'm disabled.????
And for the delete button, you could also explain that one too. Ihave no idea what that means either.
I see a couple of posters have asked for a bit of peace, why don't you accomodate them and pm me about what you're talking about.

[caseysmom]

So mid december you didn't know you were getting shepherds...stop the lies!

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1689448#post1689448

[agilityk9trainer]

I'm lost, too. Mike, you said all your dogs had UDXs and many other titles. But, you only have had your two shepherds since December? Did you get all those titles in two months (of course, I know the answer to that question). AND, you have two poms that do Sch?

Very confusing....

[DrKym]

mike001
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 276

I'm not that familiar with what debarking would entail but my family hears me say at least 100 times a day that I am getting my yappy little terrier debarked. but she still isn't done and she still yaps. Our vets don't do this anymore, like they won't dock tails or crop ears either. But rehoming is not an option. Our dogs are members of the family, noisy or not. I thought someone had said this procedure was harmful, obviously not from the posts I've read.



Wow terrier and poms with all those titles
amazing.......................................


http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1724032#post1724032

post 67

[NicoleLJ]

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1724032#post1724032

and here you mention, in post 67 that you have a small terrier. So you have poms, a terrier and shepherds?
Nicole

[mike001]

So mid december you didn't know you were getting shepherds...stop the lies!

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1689448#post1689448


Of course I knew I was getting them, I just wasn't sure from what litter
I would choose and I had to wait till they were ready.
Unfortunately my last one had died in the summer and I wasn't sure I wanted to go through that again...but I say that everytime I lose one, so what's the big deal?

[DrKym]

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1724032#post1724032

and here you mention, in post 67 that you have a small terrier. So you have poms, a terrier and shepherds?
Nicole
with each title she mentions and flyball and agility are playtime!!!

[borzoimom]

I'm lost, too. Mike, you said all your dogs had UDXs and many other titles. But, you only have had your two shepherds since December? Did you get all those titles in two months (of course, I know the answer to that question). AND, you have two poms that do Sch?

Very confusing....
I am soooooooooo lost.. good point agilitytrainer.. Weight min's for sch is 75 pounds. Biggest pom I ever saw... I had a bitch once that was at 70- her weight took her out of competition .. hmmmmmmmmmmmm..

[NicoleLJ]

Of course I knew I was getting them, I just wasn't sure from what litter
I would choose and I had to wait till they were ready.
Unfortunately my last one had died in the summer and I wasn't sure I wanted to go through that again...but I say that everytime I lose one, so what's the big deal?

But in your own words they are alreay titled many times and have schutzund and so forth at only 4 months? WOW I want to know who your breeder is.
Nicole

[DrKym]

Of course I knew I was getting them, I just wasn't sure from what litter
I would choose and I had to wait till they were ready.
Unfortunately my last one had died in the summer and I wasn't sure I wanted to go through that again...but I say that everytime I lose one, so what's the big deal?


How often do you lose your animals that its no big deal anymore???

[DrKym]

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1722453#post1722453


In here Mike you state you cant make them sit /stay???
and you are getting titles with that?



HMMMMMMMM

[borzoimom]

How often do you lose your animals that its no big deal anymore???
:eek: :eek:

[borzoimom]

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1722453#post1722453


In here Mike you state you cant make them sit /stay???
and you are getting titles with that?



HMMMMMMMM
WHAT???? :eek:

[Kfamr]

I guess it's good to keep all the nastiness in one thread but this certainly had been a strange one.

-sigh-

[Vela]

...........

that's about all I can come up with.

[DrKym]

mike001
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 277

I never deworm unless necessary since dewormers are a poison. So far after 2 yrs old none of my dogs ever pick up any kind of worms. I bring in a sample twice a year and they always show clear of anything.


Here you just have had them 2 yrs............................

Gee mike I can keep going or you can admit your BS for what it is.

[mike001]

I am soooooooooo lost.. good point agilitytrainer.. Weight min's for sch is 75 pounds. Biggest pom I ever saw... I had a bitch once that was at 70- her weight took her out of competition .. hmmmmmmmmmmmm..


Go to another post, I explained the Poms. But just as I consider my grandaughter my daughter, the poms are considered the family's also. Plus I do help her work her little butt off with them. All my Shepherds had the titles I mentioned.

And please send over the tequila.if you want more info just pm me tomorrow.

[NicoleLJ]

Go to another post, I explained the Poms. But just as I consider my grandaughter my daughter, the poms are considered the family's also. Plus I do help her work her little butt off with them. All my Shepherds had the titles I mentioned.

And please send over the tequila.if you want more info just pm me tomorrow.

They have all these titles and you have only had them 2 months?
Nicole

[borzoimom]

I am sooooooooooo lost.. :eek:

[Giselle]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Treasuretroll1.JPG/200px-Treasuretroll1.JPG

They're kinda cute.

[borzoimom]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Treasuretroll1.JPG/200px-Treasuretroll1.JPG

They're kinda cute.
ROFLMBO.. YUP- THEY ARE..

[animal_rescue]

Awww a benji looking puppy!
http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Fluffy-the-Puppy--C10054579.jpeg

No better cure than a fluffy puppy. :)

[borzoimom]

Awww a benji looking puppy!
http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Fluffy-the-Puppy--C10054579.jpeg

No better cure than a fluffy puppy. :)
Awwwwwwwwwwwww what a sweetie! :D

[applesmom]

They have all these titles and you have only had them 2 months?
Nicole

Could it be that they were already finished dogs when they were acquired?
Some people own dogs that are campaigned with a handler and they never see them. :confused:

[DrKym]

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1750661#post1750661


In this thread you post your dogs wear service tags also.............................................. ............


cmon mike.

[DrKym]

Could it be that they were already finished dogs when they were acquired?
Some people own dogs that are campaigned with a handler and they never see them. :confused:


but ppl DO NOT AQUIRE SERVICE DOGS THAT WAY

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1750661#post1750661

Mikes service dogs!
along with all their other titles

[NicoleLJ]

Could it be that they were already finished dogs when they were acquired?
Some people own dogs that are campaigned with a handler and they never see them. :confused:

The whole thing is she post one thing and then posts a totally different thing.
Nicole

[critter crazy]

I am sorry, but I am laughing my Arse off right now!!! So, Mike what is the real story??????????:D

[DrKym]

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1749602#post1749602


and mike here is you rpost where YOU state in response to me, another falsehood, on YOUR lack of accessibilty issues and your vesting of your dogs.


Now........I think I fulfilled my end, you wanted the post that you STATED it.

[critter crazy]

Very Interesting Watson......very interesting indeed!!

[mike001]

I am sooooooooooo lost.. :eek:

well don't be. the rat is mine given to me as a souvenir and yes she is part of the tribe, yes I would love to have her debarked.

The Poms are my grandaughter's as previously posted. When I talk about titles and dogs I don't refer to them I refer to my own shepherds. And yes, I do talk about the titles because this is what I always accomplished with my other shepherds. Do you have any idea how many shepherds you can own in 25 yrs?
As for saying big deal I was not referring to losing my shepherds NOt being a big deal, you took that out of context.
As I explained, yes, this time I bought older dogs, but they are so bonded that it's hard to do a sit with one without the other one following suit. Or a recall for that matter, or a down. I leave them in seperate rooms of the building when I want to train one on one. I never said I didn't have problems with some of my training, but I will finish them by this spring If there's a problem admitting you're not up to a pup, then I guess I'm guilty.
As for my disability, I am still waiting for that thread.Really anxious to know what it is....maybe an invisible disability?
Must go order those capes right now.

[applesmom]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Treasuretroll1.JPG/200px-Treasuretroll1.JPG

They're kinda cute.

The polite and considerate thing to do would be to ignore a thread that doesn't interest you!

[applesmom]

Awww a benji looking puppy!
http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Fluffy-the-Puppy--C10054579.jpeg

No better cure than a fluffy puppy. :)

The polite and considerate thing to do would be to ignore a thread that doesn't interest you!

[applesmom]

but ppl DO NOT AQUIRE SERVICE DOGS THAT WAY

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1750661#post1750661

Mikes service dogs!
along with all their other titles

Oh yeah. You're right about that.

[Kfamr]

The polite and considerate thing to do would be to ignore a thread that doesn't interest you!


Considering this thread has gone down a completely different route now, does it really matter?

Personally, I find the scruffy pup incredibly destressful and makes this thread appealing. ;)

[borzoimom]

Considering this thread has gone down a completely different route now, does it really matter?
I guess not anymore.. I am lost too kfamr.. :(

[borzoimom]

The polite and considerate thing to do would be to ignore a thread that doesn't interest you!
I did- that is a cute picture dont you think? I am only responding to the last post and the rest is confusing me.. Don't you feel confused?

[critter crazy]

The polite and considerate thing to do would be to ignore a thread that doesn't interest you!
ummm....you repeating your self dosent seem to be helping! The polite and considerate thing to do would be to ignore a thread that dosent interest you.
Obviously people were trying to be funny to lighten the mood! geesh!

[Vela]

The polite and considerate thing to do would be to ignore a thread that doesn't interest you!

Sorry but you really aren't the thread police and Giselle can post in whatever thread she wants. She didn't harm anything or anyone and in fact was a little levity in a thread badly gone astray.

[borzoimom]

Sorry but you really aren't the thread police and Giselle can post in whatever thread she wants. She didn't harm anything or anyone and in fact was a little levity in a thread badly gone astray.
amen.. are you as confused as I am??? :confused: Have I mentioned lately you have beautiful dogs Vela???? !!!!!

[Vela]

Hehe why thank you! Yours are beautiful as well. I am quite confused, yes, but that's okay.....I am content to remain oblivious at times LOL.

[applesmom]

Considering this thread has gone down a completely different route now, does it really matter?

Personally, I find the scruffy pup incredibly destressful and makes this thread appealing. ;)

Yes it does matter. It's extremely rude and disruptive! No one is forcing anyone to read this discussion.

[critter crazy]

Yes it does matter. It's extremely rude and disruptive! No one is forcing anyone to read this discussion.
I dont find it rude at all. But you being the allknowing thread police, is coming of as rude!

[NicoleLJ]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Treasuretroll1.JPG/200px-Treasuretroll1.JPG

They're kinda cute.

Perfect for this thread. Should be the picture and then say unveiled. lol Amazing how obvious it is when someone can't keep their own facts of their own life straight.
Nicole

[DrKym]

mike001
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 279

Nobody is talking about "legal" anything. Everyone knows the three "legal" questions stores can ask, so please could we do without the links.
If the woman wasn't looking for trouble and her dog was in fact a SD then she could have shown proof as a matter of courtesy.
Sounds to me like she was on some kind of bandwagon to attract attention from what I read.
Our dogs have a black and red tag so it's evident to all that they are in fact service dogs.
I would never attract attention to myself the way this woman did, I would have pulled out my ID.
I always am interested in both sides of a story, the one sided ones always leave questions in my mind.
This story sounded fishy and I guess it was. My opinion.




http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1750784#post1750784


Post 75


now mike001 what really is your story????


you have 7 dogs? no only 3
no 7
all sheps.no poms and terriers.....no those arent yours! so all sheps and teriiers and poms

all with all the titles you can get ...............but you are too busy working the poms

oh wait that whe you arent doing therapy work.......................

you are disabled
no you arent
yes you are


you swim for a university team
you have grandkids



Im not sure......how many personalities are friends in there?

[Vela]

Oh for heaven's sake, others are entitled as much as you to post anything they like. You are just as rude as you accuse others of being by nitpicking. If you don't like a post, the polite thing would be just to ignore it and move on.....gotcha.

[Kfamr]

Yes it does matter. It's extremely rude and disruptive! No one is forcing anyone to read this discussion.

Wow, I wouldn't go to that extreme. If breaking up the bickering and drama with a photo of a cute dog is "extremely rude and disruptive" what would you call 75% of the other posts in this thread? You know, the 75% that has absolutely nothing to do with licensing dog trainers.

-shrugs- To each his own, I suppose. Megan, I say bring on the scruffy dog pictures. ;)

[critter crazy]

My question is this, in the above post she is stating that she has service dogs, so why does she start this thread?????

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=121750

[borzoimom]

mike001
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 279

Nobody is talking about "legal" anything. Everyone knows the three "legal" questions stores can ask, so please could we do without the links.
If the woman wasn't looking for trouble and her dog was in fact a SD then she could have shown proof as a matter of courtesy.
Sounds to me like she was on some kind of bandwagon to attract attention from what I read.
Our dogs have a black and red tag so it's evident to all that they are in fact service dogs.
I would never attract attention to myself the way this woman did, I would have pulled out my ID.
I always am interested in both sides of a story, the one sided ones always leave questions in my mind.
This story sounded fishy and I guess it was. My opinion.




http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1750784#post1750784


Post 75


now mike001 what really is your story????


you have 7 dogs? no only 3
no 7
all sheps.no poms and terriers.....no those arent yours! so all sheps and teriiers and poms

all with all the titles you can get ...............but you are too busy working the poms

oh wait that whe you arent doing therapy work.......................

you are disabled
no you arent
yes you are


you swim for a university team
you have grandkids



Im not sure......how many personalities are friends in there?
WHOAAAAAAAAA... :confused: :confused: :eek: :eek:

[NicoleLJ]

My question is this, in the above post she is stating that she has service dogs, so why does she start this thread?????

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=121750

Very good question.
Nicole

[DrKym]

My question is this, in the above post she is stating that she has service dogs, so why does she start this thread?????

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=121750


Maggie I was asked to do 3 things today

Show wehere Mike posted she had them (I posted a few more things too)

Answer a reasonable question from Applesmom

And order pizza

My kid has Pizza, the answer to the original question is done, and I have given the thread where mike claims disability and has service dogs


Kym

[Karen]

The initial question has been answered, I am now closing this thread, as it has strayed far from the initial question.