adding stuff to the dog's diet, wanted to hear your thoughts

[finn's mom]

Ok, I just wanted to see if anyone else had ever heard of this or if anyone else fed their dogs this nutritional support. :) I just found it at the grocery store I work at, and we bought it for the three dogs. The brand is Udo's Choice and it's called Pet Essentials for Dogs (an all-vegetarian nutritional support for pets with EFAs, Fiber, Enzymes & Phytonutrients). It comes in powder form and I put it in once a day in their nightly meals.

Here's the guaranteed analysis: not less than 25% crude protein, not less than 15% crude fat, and not more than 8% crude fiber and not more than 10% moisture.

Here are the ingredients:

Each 16oz contains a proprietary blend of: Udo's Seed Cake (flax seed*, defatted flax seed*, sunflower seed*, defatted sunflower seed*, sesame seed*, defatted sesame seed*, rice germ, rice bran, oat germ, oat bran), rice bran, carrot, whole golden flaxseed*, tomato, ginger, sprouted soybean, barley grass*, beet, chrysanthemum, Digestive Enzyme Blend (protease, lipase, amylase, cellulase, maltase, glucoamylase, invertase, pectinase, phytase, lactase), lemon grass, parsley, alfalfa*, artichoke, broccoli, burdoc, hawthorn berry, kale, kelp*, milk thistle, red clover yucca schidigera extract, dandelion root, dandelion leaf, oat grass, rosemary, sage, thyme, rye grass*, bee pollen, chlorella, dulse.

*certified organic

This is what it says on one side of the bottle:

Udo's Choice Pet Essentials for Dogs is rich in certified organic seeds, whole foods, herbs, greens, trace minerals and phytonutrients in their unaltered, natural state to give your pet optimum nutrition for maintaining an active, energetic lifestyle. Fiber and enzymes help maintain regularity and support the digestive system. Organic flax seeds support the cardiovascular system, help maintain good muscle tone, and promote a healthy skin and glossy coat. Greens are rich in chlorophyll, minerals and trace elements. Pet Essentials contains no fillers, binders, or other non-nutrient ingredients. It has no preservatives or additives and is nitrogen-packed to ensure freshness.

Finn, as most of you know, eats a raw diet, consisting primarily of chicken leg quarters. He gets raw beef and pork as well. Freckles and Dudley eat a high quality kibble called Pinnacle. I usually throw them all what's left of fruit and veggies that I've eaten (like apple cores) or fruit and veggies I won't eat (like a bruised up banana that I would use in banana bread but that I wouldn't eat by itself). Lately, I've been throwing everything we don't eat (fruits and vegetables and their peelings and rinds, stale bread, etc) into a food processor and blending it all up with yogurt for all three dogs. It makes a good base to add that new powdered supplement to. And, I feel better that I'm not wasting food (they're like having a pig around, now, hahaha...or a compost pile). So, if celery gets a little too rubbery for our palate, it goes into the processor. I won't put anything in there with mold, but I have been throwing banana peels and cantalope rinds and orange peels in there, which are things that they typically wouldn't eat. Now, they do!

Anyway, I know there are certain things they shouldn't eat, like onions and grapes and chocolate of course. Any others I should know about? I'm going to do a search, too, because I know there are already threads covering that. But, I actually posted this thread to see what you all thought about the new supplement I got for them and about the new way I'm feeding them fruits and veggies. I like to get feedback when I make changes, just in case.

This new supplement I have is manufactured by Flora and their website is www.florahealth.com. The other site is www.udoerasmus.com (I haven't visited either, yet, but I will!).

Thanks if you actually read this! :)

[borzoimom]

Well I see two ingredients that raise an eyebrow- flax, and beet. However- the flax appears to be cooked in a cake- thats okay. The beet is so far down, and other things in there are a good addition- with tomato before the beet, and kale and kelp following . Also Rosemary, and hawthorn berry are good for the immune system as well. I also see no indication of a presevative that would be alarming. And stated as organic means the ingredients can not be treated prior to processing either. The digestive enzyme mix looks good as well.
Looks pretty good to me- let me know how it works out.. Picked out a good one to me! :D

[finn's mom]

What's wrong with flax? Everything I've ever read about it says it's a great addition to any animal's diet, including people. My mother-in-law just about adds it to anything she's baking. Not doubting what you know, just curious.

[borzoimom]

What's wrong with flax? Everything I've ever read about it says it's a great addition to any animal's diet, including people. My mother-in-law just about adds it to anything she's baking. Not doubting what you know, just curious.
Raw or fermented flax will make gas in the intestine. However- since its in a combination like the others, and states cake, its been cooked to some degree. When ingredients are listed in a chain in (....) that means they were combined, and " cake" means baked of some sort.
It really does look good. I am NOT easy to impress ( as you all know.. ;) ) and so let me know how it goes. Galina soon will be bred, and she may need an additive. You got me interested- and I love the fact you do raw so that is more on the same plane of what I do to see if there is any changes.. The product I was considering for Galina was called " Structure" but yours looks like a broader base immune system support- and I like your choice better. :D

[finn's mom]

Raw or fermented flax will make gas in the intestine.


Ah, gotcha. I sent this information to my vet, too, to get her thoughts. She feeds raw to all of her pets, too and was the person who initially told me about the raw diet. I'll let you know what she says, too and ask her what her thoughts on flax are.

I will let you know how the dogs do with this new supplement. :)

[borzoimom]

Ah, gotcha. I sent this information to my vet, too, to get her thoughts. She feeds raw to all of her pets, too and was the person who initially told me about the diet. I'll let you know what she says, too and ask her what her thoughts on flax are.

I will let you know how the dogs do with this new supplement. :)
Please do me a favor- since your vet feeds this and knows the supplement- as well as feed raw ( my vets feed raw too but may not know this supplement like your vet does)- would you please ask your vet if she feels this would also be a good addition to a bitch in whelp. She may see something in it I cant.. pm me what she says.. ( and I posting this question here because others might have a bitch in whelp as well to know to check all supplements during this time..) BTW- Galina is in excellent health and weight etc.

[ramanth]

I've never heard of that before but it sounds pretty good.

I add this to Kia and Chipper's diet.


Seameal Powder w/ Flaxseed Meal

Product Description
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seameal contains 60 trace minerals, 12 vitamins, 22 amino acids, digestive enzymes, and flaxseed meal. We recommend using Seameal with all our foods.

Protein, Min. 9%
Fat, Min. 10%
Fiber, Max. 13%
Moisture, Max. 12.2%


Ingredients
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dried Seaweed Meal | Flaxseed Meal | Dehydrated Lemon Powder | Carotene | Chlorophyll | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Dried Asparagus Oryzae Fermentation Product | Dried Asperigillus Niger Fermentation Product | Pineapple | Lactose |

[borzoimom]

Flaxseed meal is safe. Its already been crushed and less likly to ferment in the digestion.
YOur suggestion is a good one ramanth.Sea meal is good stuff.
I am so glad this came up. I have been working on getting the best supplement I can for Galina. Sighthounds are prone to thyroid problems- usually started by a weakend immune system. Its not in their lines, and I have test Galina twice now- once when we got her- about a month ago, and whill again when she comes into heat. ( the hormone system can stress the thyroid so I want another check. )

[ramanth]

would you please ask your vet if she feels this would also be a good addition to a bitch in whelp. She may see something in it I cant.. pm me what she says.. ( and I posting this question here because others might have a bitch in whelp as well to know to check all supplements during this time..) BTW- Galina is in excellent health and weight etc.

Have you heard of this supplement?

Solid Gold Concept-a-Bitch

Concept-a-Bitch is a dietary supplement for brood bitches prior to breeding, during pregnancy, and nursing. This supplement is often used for bitches who have had previous pregnancy problems or older bitches.

Made with Wild Yam, which is a natural source of progesterone, a hormone necessary to maintain pregnancy. Also contains SeaMeal, to support the hormone system, helping to prevent hair loss in bitches who tend to lose their coats after whelping. 1 lb. jar (sufficient for one pregnancy in a medium sized dog).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analysis:
Protein, Min. 19%
Fat, Min. 5%
Fiber, Max. 12%
Moisture, Max. 7%

Ingredients:
Red Raspberry Leaves, Dried Seaweed Meal, Common Fennel, Lysine, Wild Yam, Peppermint, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid

Feeding Guidlines:
For use before breeding and during pregnancy and nursing. Begin 2 weeks prior to breeding and continue until puppies are 6 weeks of age.

up to 10 lbs - 1/8 tsp daily
up to 25 lbs - 1/4 tsp daily
up to 50 lbs - 1/2 tsp daily
up to 75 lbs - 3/4 tsp daily
100 lbs and oover - 1 tsp daily

Please keep in mind that response to supplements varies by individual. If your pets symptoms worsen or change in any way that concerns you, discontinue use of any supplements and contact your veterinarian.

When introducing any new supplement, it is wise to start with a lower than recommended dose and build up over the course of several days to a week. Only introduce one supplement at a time.

[borzoimom]

Have you heard of this supplement?

Solid Gold Concept-a-Bitch

Concept-a-Bitch is a dietary supplement for brood bitches prior to breeding, during pregnancy, and nursing. This supplement is often used for bitches who have had previous pregnancy problems or older bitches.

Made with Wild Yam, which is a natural source of progesterone, a hormone necessary to maintain pregnancy. Also contains SeaMeal, to support the hormone system, helping to prevent hair loss in bitches who tend to lose their coats after whelping. 1 lb. jar (sufficient for one pregnancy in a medium sized dog).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analysis:
Protein, Min. 19%
Fat, Min. 5%
Fiber, Max. 12%
Moisture, Max. 7%

Ingredients:
Red Raspberry Leaves, Dried Seaweed Meal, Common Fennel, Lysine, Wild Yam, Peppermint, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid

Feeding Guidlines:
For use before breeding and during pregnancy and nursing. Begin 2 weeks prior to breeding and continue until puppies are 6 weeks of age.

up to 10 lbs - 1/8 tsp daily
up to 25 lbs - 1/4 tsp daily
up to 50 lbs - 1/2 tsp daily
up to 75 lbs - 3/4 tsp daily
100 lbs and oover - 1 tsp daily

Please keep in mind that response to supplements varies by individual. If your pets symptoms worsen or change in any way that concerns you, discontinue use of any supplements and contact your veterinarian.

When introducing any new supplement, it is wise to start with a lower than recommended dose and build up over the course of several days to a week. Only introduce one supplement at a time.
Yes I have. Its another one I am looking into. My last litter of shepherds with 6 pups, did well on this. And she was 5 years old when she had the pups. No problems- but older female. I wonder what beta carotine as the source- do you know??

[ramanth]

I know beta carotene is found in fruits and vegetables. I googled:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_carotene

[borzoimom]

I know beta carotene is found in fruits and vegetables. I googled:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_carotene
I know the types of beta carotine- I was wondering which one ( single) or did they combine- and which ones are they.. I looked into Structure because it also has calcium and phosphorus.
Its funny ya know- even with all the litters I have had, I still worry over every single one.. lol. ( now you know where the grey hairs came from.. lol. )

[finn's mom]

Please do me a favor- since your vet feeds this and knows the supplement- as well as feed raw

I should have worded that differently. She feeds the raw diet, but I have no idea if she has ever even heard of this supplement that I bought. That's why I'm going to send her the information I provided in the initial post, to get her thoughts on it. :) I'm going to edit my post, now. ;) But, i will ask her what she thinks of it and if she thinks it would be good for your girl.

[borzoimom]

I should have worded that differently. She feeds the raw diet, but I have no idea if she has ever even heard of this supplement that I bought. That's why I'm going to send her the information I provided in the initial post, to get her thoughts on it. :) I'm going to edit my post, now. ;) But, i will ask her what she thinks of it and if she thinks it would be good for your girl.
Okay- and I will ask my vets as well..

[finn's mom]

Okay- and I will ask my vets as well..

I haven't gotten a reply from my vet, but it's the first time I've ever actually tried to communicate with her via email. :) I will find out soon if I even have the address correct. ;)

[Kfamr]

Sounds okay to me.

No worries about the flaxseed - it is completely fine. Whole, raw, flaxseeds are sort of like corn - they come out the same way they went in. But since this is in a powdered form, it is a great source of Omega-3 oils. Beet is okay too but often used as a filler. It's a quality fiber.

[sandragonfly]

quoted by kfmar
But since this is in a powdered form, it is a great source of Omega-3 oils.

yeah. omega-oil (cod liver, fish oil) is what I love about raw. as same to flaxseed. they even have flaxseed oil if you want. perfect skin & coat. especially he has annually allergies. :) I think it sooths crayola's tummy sometimes too.

[Kfamr]

quoted by kfmar
But since this is in a powdered form, it is a great source of Omega-3 oils.

yeah. omega-oil (cod liver, fish oil) is what I love about raw. as same to flaxseed. they even have flaxseed oil if you want. perfect skin & coat. especially he has annually allergies. :) I think it sooths crayola's tummy sometimes too.


Yep. The only problem with flaxseed is that it's from a plant and they cannot digest it. So, we've got to break the cell walls (ground, grinde, crush, etc.) for them to get the nutrients.

Both flaxseed and beet are often misunderstood by some.

[borzoimom]

Yep. The only problem with flaxseed is that it's from a plant and they cannot digest it. So, we've got to break the cell walls (ground, grinde, crush, etc.) for them to get the nutrients. .
That is exactly why I said only ground- not whole. .. look on page 1.

[Kfamr]

That is exactly why I said only ground- not whole. .. look on page 1.


Okay.. and your point? :confused:

I was just stating my opinion on the subject and the ingredients that "raise an eyebrow" for you.

[borzoimom]

Yep. The only problem with flaxseed is that it's from a plant and they cannot digest it. So, we've got to break the cell walls (ground, grinde, crush, etc.) for them to get the nutrients.

Both flaxseed and beet are often misunderstood by some.
If something is not digestable, it will cause gas in the gut. In a large breed dog, this can put too much gas in the intestine- one of the leading factors of bloat. Beet is also dangerious- unless the sugar is removed or it is in a cooked type combination.
I have been studying dog foods for over 20 years. .. .. .. ...

[Kfamr]

If something is not digestable, it will cause gas in the gut. In a large breed dog, this can put too much gas in the intestine- one of the leading factors of bloat. Beet is also dangerious- unless the sugar is removed or it is in a cooked type combination.
I have been studying dog foods for over 20 years. .. .. .. ...


Congratulations on studying dogs foods for over 20 years!

But, I do no see where you are going here. I stated that it was not digestable if whole.
I would imagine that, coming in a powedered form, it was cooked/processed somehow as it obviously doesn't come that way naturally.


If you're looking to argue, go eslewhere. We basically stated the same opinion, however, the way you've worded it is making it seem like someone's dog is going to keal over and die if fed beet or flaxseed (and you've made it sound that way in other threads.) When used in correct amount they are very beneficial to a dog.

She asked for people's opinions on the product, I was giving mine, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[borzoimom]

Congratulations on studying dogs foods for over 20 years!

But, I do no see where you are going here. I stated that it was not digestable if whole.
I would imagine that, coming in a powedered form, it was cooked/processed somehow as it obviously doesn't come that way naturally.


If you're looking to argue, go eslewhere. We basically stated the same opinion, however, the way you've worded is making it seem like someone's dog is going to keal over and die if fed beet or flaxseed (and you've made it sound that way in other threads.) When used in correct amount they are very beneficial to a dog.
Bloat is a serious problem.. And if the condition exists- yes they will "keel over and die..".. and NOOOOOOOOOOOO I AM NOT GOING ANYWHERE.. tyvm..

[lizbud]

If something is not digestable, it will cause gas in the gut. In a large breed dog, this can put too much gas in the intestine- one of the leading factors of bloat. Beet is also dangerious- unless the sugar is removed or it is in a cooked type combination.
I have been studying dog foods for over 20 years. .. .. .. ...


Is gas in the gut the same as a person being full of hot air?

[borzoimom]

Is gas in the gut the same as a person being full of hot air?
VERY GOOD question- .. Gas in the gut can cause the gut to twist- ie bloat, GDV.
If there is too much gas there, the stomach can twist. Its not the same as " being full of hot air. " Full of hot air" is like the bowel- like indigestion or " passing gas". Its not the same. ..
That was a good question. Maybe people do not understand the difference. I am copying a link what GDV is.. "What Is Canine Bloat?
The topic of GDV (the canine bloat) is very real and frightening to any dog owner. Although most dog lovers out there are fairly educated about the subject, I feel that we all need a refresher course once in a while.

Canine Bloat (Gastric Dilation or GDV) is a very dangerous disorder of the canine digestive system. Unfortunately the reasons behind this disorder seem to be somewhat puzzling and not so clear, but we have gathered some information about the disorder and the symptoms that may be helpful for all dog lovers.

We also touch on the subject of getting the proper medical help in case of an emergency and you will also find a few suggestions that may or may not be helpful in preventing bloat. We do follow all the suggestions provided here since our German Shepherd Mundo has a very sensitive digestive system.

Once again observation is the key element of course and we all must learn to read canine body language since they just cannot express themselves verbally.

What is Bloat "Gastric Dilation": The condition is rapidly fatal in dogs, causing shock, coma, and death within 6-12 hours. Always consult your dog's vet as he or she can take x-rays of the abdomen to confirm the diagnosis. It is characterized by stomach enlargement due to extreme gas and or dilation.

Dilation may follow by "volvulus" a twisting rotation of the stomach. This closes both the esophagus and pylorus preventing the dog's stomach from relieving gas by belching; it also blocks the food to advance into the intestines and stops the suffering dog from getting ride of the food by vomiting.

We have also found out that this twist compresses one of the major veins carrying blood to the heart and causes abnormal blood circulation through out the dog's body, which causes shock and death.

What breeds are prone to bloat? Bloat seems to affect deep-chested, large or extra large dogs between the ages of 4 to 10 years.

German Shepherd
Great Dane
Standard Poodle
Rottweiler
Akita
Bloodhound
Great Pyrenees
Irish Setter
Old English Sheepdog
Boxer
Golden Retriever
Irish Wolfhound
St. Bernards
Labrador Retriever
Newfoundland
Doberman
What are some of the bloat symptoms: Common symptoms of bloat are:

major anxiety
abdominal swelling after meals
gagging
whining
heavy salivating
pacing
dry vomiting
heavy panting
shallow breathing
restlessness
excessive heartbeat
weak pulse with off colored (blue, dark red, white) gums
Initially affected dogs show some of the symptoms above and are not interested in food or water. After 30-60 minutes the dog begins to appear swollen in its midsection due to accumulation of gas in the stomach than begin to pant heavily and breathing becomes rapid and shallow. Keep in mind that the gagging and vomitting is always unproductive.

What to do in case of an emergency: Dogs showing any of the above symptoms must be observed carefully and taken to a veterinarian immediately.

Some helpful suggestions: Below are some suggestions to decrease the chances of bloat. These suggestions we follow for our boss dog Mundo (German Shepherd) may or may not help detecting or preventing canine bloat, but observation and being canine-connected will help you understand and help your loyal pooch!

Never feed your dog immediately before or after heavy work out or training session. We try to allow 2-3 hours of rest time after feeding our dogs.
Do not allow your dog to become overweight.
Be canine-connected and watch for odd symptoms, abdominal swelling, dry vomiting, strange gagging, extreme restlessness, etc.
Feed several small meals throughout the day instead of one large meal. Our German Shepherd Mundo gets 2 meals and a snack for lunch.
If you have a nervous dog, feed her/him in a quite relaxed atmosphere. Our poodle Cinnamon was pretty nervous during feeding, so we set her dish in the kitchen and leaft her alone during her meals.
If you plan on changing your dogs diet, start slowly please. Sudden diet changes will cause gastric problems. The adjustment period for Mundo (find out what Mundo eats) when we got her on a holistic diet was 2 months. She was extremely frail so this time frame was longer than usual. Please check with your vet when changing diets, a vet will be able to guide you better since he or she is familiar with your dogs physical and psychological make up.
What may cause Bloat? It is thought that the following factors may contribute to bloat, although there are no definite answers.

Eating Habits
Exercise
Stress
Heredity
Disposition
Immediately contact your dog's veterinarian in case you feel that your dog may have GDV. Please note that GDV is a life-threatening emergency and we urge you or anyone you know not to attempt home treatments, but seek professional help instead!

Be alert, use caution and ask your vet in case you have any doubts. You and your dog deserve to live a happy and healthy life. With a little understanding of dangerous illnesses such as the canine bloat, you are taking a step toward insuring your dog's future and health.

Stay healthy and happy...

Sevi Kay © 2000 Mundo L.L.C "
http://www.cybercanine.com/bloat.htm

[finn's mom]

I know it's typical Pet Talk debating, but I'd like to try to keep this particular thread clean and serene (that rhymed!). I'm all for debate and differing opinions, which there doesn't appear to be debate, just the same opinion worded differently. Maybe I'm naive, but I get enough negativity in "real life", I'd like to keep this place pretty and like a big ray of sunshine. :D Please take the dark clouds to pm, if you don't mind. :p

All the actual information that has been supplied in this thread has been great, though, so thank you to those who have offered it!

[borzoimom]

Just answering as presented before me.. Sorry Finn's Mom.. It got kidnapped.. lol

[lizbud]

I know it's typical Pet Talk debating, but I'd like to try to keep this particular thread clean and serene (that rhymed!). I'm all for debate and differing opinions, which there doesn't appear to be debate, just the same opinion worded differently. Maybe I'm naive, but I get enough negativity in "real life", I'd like to keep this place pretty and like a big ray of sunshine. :D



mea copa, :( Let the info keep flowing. :)

[Ceph]

I have a question -


When I get my puppy I am planning on feeding him or her mainly raw. What supplements should I plan on adding to the feed to make sure the puppy is getting everything he needs. I want him to grow up healthy and happy and awsome, so I am worrying a but about the feed. :)

And how should the diet morph and change as he gets older and larger?

[borzoimom]

I have a question -


When I get my puppy I am planning on feeding him or her mainly raw. What supplements should I plan on adding to the feed to make sure the puppy is getting everything he needs. I want him to grow up healthy and happy and awsome, so I am worrying a but about the feed. :)

And how should the diet morph and change as he gets older and larger?
With a puppy on raw, unless the pup is thin or a 'giant breed', there is no reason to add supplments other than vitamins. I use missing link. I can pm you a receipe for your puppy- but I need to know the breed, and the age..

[Ceph]

lol, It's my BBS puppy...so probably between 40 and 60 pounds...they're smaller in europe then they are in the states, and he'll probably start out with me at 2.5 months.

[borzoimom]

lol, It's my BBS puppy...so probably between 40 and 60 pounds...they're smaller in europe then they are in the states, and he'll probably start out with me at 2.5 months.
Let me know when you get there.. lol.

[Ceph]

lol, I'm picking him up in June....:p

[borzoimom]

lol, I'm picking him up in June....:p
That'll work.. I will be here.. lol..

[caseysmom]

Is gas in the gut the same as a person being full of hot air?

Lizbud...I am glad I had not food in my mouth :D

[Ceph]

I dont know as much about dogs because my expertise is in large animals, but I know that in horses gas in the gut can kill very quickly.

I dunno....it doesnt seem very funny to me. I know that with companion animal nutrition the same general rules apply as large animal nutrion. So I imagine things that cause problems in horses may do the same for dogs.

Animal Nutrition is something that should be taken very seriously...its why I like this place...people can ask questions and recieve answers....its a good information mill...nutrition and the problems it may cause really isnt very funny...I've seen and heard of too many scenarios were people who dont have all the facts make mistakes....Its better to know and at least consider all the possiblities.