Dog Food Rant-

[borzoimom]

THATS IT- I HAVE HAD IT.. And no i am not on decongestants..
IF PEOPLE OR THE DOG FOOD MAKERS think its funny to the following facts- may they rot in h*ll:
* prior to 1976 the average life span of any dog was easily 13 years- now the average is 11 with giant breeds at 8 years barely.
* with only AFCO they state a dog food to be for the dogs life to be at 25 percent protein- and 15 fat- you can get the same darn thing on shoe leather soaked in vegetable oil..
No standard on ingredients and the reason is- WE IN THE US DO NOT EAT DOGS- I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT- IF WE ATE DOGS- THEY WOULD EAT BETTER, AS people can not eat the chemicals we give in dog food...
* HOW many of you remember your grand parents dogs that lived healthy their whole life until the end?- Yet we deal with dry skin, skin infections, cancers of liver, kidneys and skin,,.. EVER WONDER WHY????

* YES- I AM A FANATIC ABOUT PET FOODS..- I TRY TO EAT HEALTHY MYSELF- BUT AT SOME POINT SOMEONE HAS TO STOP AND THINK- MY DOGS LIFE IS WORTH MORE THAN A FEW BUCKS IN A COMPANY THAT QUITE FRANKLY DOESNT GIVE A RATS BUTT about how I feel about my dog.They don't care- that I will worry when in the vets office- that I will jolt my heart at sign of cancer on the skin- failing liver or kidney function- brain problems that makes the dog aggressive and has to be put down.... WHEN AT WHAT POINT ARE YOU GOING TO SAY- ENOUGH- ENOUGH AND TAKE your dogs health in what they eat as seriously if not more so than you do your own???? WHEN????

* It starts at puppy hood- and grows. If you ate the same thing only- twice a day- day after day, week after week, month after month- year after year- it BETTER BE GOOD- BECAUSE, PEOPLE- that is ALL they got... THATS IT.. Its the difference from you eating pototoe chips every day and wait for your skin to break out with nothing else- YEA SURE- YOU ARE ALIVE- but are you healthy???????????? SHOOT NO... !!!

I WISH I DIDN'T KNOW as much about dog food as I do.. I wish to he*l I didn't have to wake up to what I did- BUT I DID.. I cant bring my dogs back- but I CAN MAKE SURE- the ones I have live a longer, healthier, safer, happier life without being ill..

I AM SICK OF THE DOG FOOD COMPANIES- MOST DONT GIVE A DARN ABOUT YOUR PET.!! ITS ALL ABOUT THE MIGHTY DOLLAR- SO YOU BETTER DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF.. Look at it as feeding a child- cause you know what- JUST LIKE A CHILD- they know no life or food without YOU...

IT STARTS AT HOME- do the research.. I dont care if you have to send the food out to a lab for the real statement on the food...
* DID YOU ALL KNOW THAT THE STANDINGS ON FAT AND PROTEIN IS DONE PRIOR TO PROCESSING??? YET WHEN ITS PROCESSED THE HEAT FROM EXTRUSION KILLS ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL THE B vitamins- then we wonder why our bitches loose puppies- or our old dog has heart problems, or the middle age dog can't walk from lack of balenced phororus and calcium.. HELLLLLLLLLLLLOOO.

LOOK AT YOUR Pets FOOD- I MEAN UPSIDE DOWN, INSIDE OUT AND BACKWARDS- AND REMEMBER - BETWEEN THAT FOOD AND YOU - thats all they got! Make it good or spend the rest of your money on vet bills, but most of all - serious heartache!

[Lady's Human]

Are we done with our tantrum yet?

[lizbud]

This is sad. :( no joke.

[mike001]

wow Borzoid, that was some rant. Understand how you feel though, just finished another article on kibbled foods

[borzoimom]

Are we done with our tantrum yet?
FOR NOW- yes... Mr. Lady Human- that is the way it was..

[Ceph]

actually some of that was rather useful....I'll have to let my mom know...she feeds her mutt commercial feed, but Deedee also has a heart murmur...maybe feeding raw will help the poor old girl...

My uncle feeds his dobes raw...one of them recently past away but lived a longer life than most larger dogs...11 or 12 years I think.

And it does make sense to look into what you are feeding any of your animals...My animal nutrition classes last year partially shocked the heck out of me...I learned some useful things though.

Though I do have a question...there are some formulated feeds that are pretty good for the dog right? I heard chicken soup for the dog lovers soul is good, as well as a few others (cant remember the name though.)

[Lady's Human]

There's more baloney in that post than there is filler in a cheap hot dog.

[Ceph]

everyone is entitled to their own opinion right?

Its all a matter of doing what you feel is right for yourself and your dog...when my puppy comes I am probably going to feed him raw....I think he will be healthier that way...

My mom and dad on the other hand will probably continue to feed pelleted diets, though they are looking for some of the better stuff, which helps.

[lizbud]

- WE IN THE US DO NOT EAT DOGS- I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT- IF WE ATE DOGS- THEY WOULD EAT BETTER AS they can not eat the chemicals we give in dog food...


Huh? :confused:

[dogzr#1]

I didn't get that part either. I can't say anything else about the post though as I don't know much about dog food. I just know my dogs are healthy and happy right now.

[Ceph]

Just because I am curious though...what happened to spark this?

I think what she meant to say with that statement was that the quality of the feed would be better (or there would be less chemicals in the food) if we bred edible pooches...which may or may not be true...the feedlots tend not to feed to much bad things to their animals...but they are also trying to come to a ratio of price vs. gain. So you would probably loose alot of the chemicals but the quality of the food fed might not actually change....lol, though most of the animals I study are herbavores...they get fed med quality forages typically.

[areias]

Huh? :confused:

She means that with all the chemicals in dog food, if we were into eating dogs here, it would probably be banned by the FDA because they are harmful to us.

I understand what your saying michelle.


I wish to he*l I didn't have to wake up to what I did- BUT I DID.. I cant bring my dogs back- but I CAN MAKE SURE- the ones I have live a longer, healthier, safer, happier life without being ill..

Now this is my question...what do you mean by that?

[borzoimom]

Huh? :confused:
Meaning- as if you studied dog food like I have - most of the chemicals and the grade of ingredients is not even remotely considered safe for humans.
If we ate dogs- they would require dogs to be fed safer- like they do our cows, sheep, chickens etc. They can NOT have cancer causing things in their diet to spread to the meat in our eating.. Simple way of putting it- but its a horrid fact!

[cali]

Huh? :confused:

thats ones easy, because dogs in north america are not intended for humane consumtion they are able to pt many chemicals in the foods that would never in a million year be allowed in the feed of an animal intended for human consumtion.

[borzoimom]

actually some of that was rather useful....I'll have to let my mom know...she feeds her mutt commercial feed, but Deedee also has a heart murmur...maybe feeding raw will help the poor old girl...

My uncle feeds his dobes raw...one of them recently past away but lived a longer life than most larger dogs...11 or 12 years I think.

And it does make sense to look into what you are feeding any of your animals...My animal nutrition classes last year partially shocked the heck out of me...I learned some useful things though.

Though I do have a question...there are some formulated feeds that are pretty good for the dog right? I heard chicken soup for the dog lovers soul is good, as well as a few others (cant remember the name though.)
If you want the address of the lab to send your food in- do not tell them what brand- they will run a series of tests on it- from chemicals to meat quality. I have tested at this point over 45 foods! At 35 dollars a pop, now 75 dollars a pop..

[NicoleLJ]

When it comes to dog food and peoples choices I have this opinion. If the dog is healthy and happy then it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS what they feed. I am happy with what I feed my dogs. They have been eating Innova Large Breed for 3 months now and are doing great. I used to feed them Purina Pro Plan and guess what. They did great on that too. I only switched because it was hard to get. That is ht eonly reason I switched. But when I did switched this site helped me a great deal in finding a great food:

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

What is great for one dog and person may not be great for another. Just because people do not agree on th efoods they feed does not mean they love their dogs any less. Each to their own I always say.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

thats ones easy, because dogs in north america are not intended for humane consumtion they are able to pt many chemicals in the foods that would never in a million year be allowed in the feed of an animal intended for human consumtion.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wolfsoul]

Though I do have a question...there are some formulated feeds that are pretty good for the dog right? I heard chicken soup for the dog lovers soul is good, as well as a few others (cant remember the name though.)
There are plenty of high quality kibbles out there. :) Chicken Soup is a good one (though many dog owners find it too rich for their dogs!). As well there is Innova, Nature's Variety, Solid Gold, Canidae, Timberwolf Organics, NAtural Balance, California Natural, Go Natural, Foundations, Summit, etc. Lots of good ones to choose from. Every dog is different though! Some dogs can't digest the high quality feeds as well as the low quality feeds, so some people choose to either go with lower quality dog foods, or feed digestive enzymes.

I feed raw. Tried high quality foods, low quality foods -- never found anything that I felt suited my dogs quite right. Haven't been happier since making the switch. It's been over a year now and my dogs have none of the common problems we see in the dogs that come into the shop I work at, and when there are flea/lice breakouts and the other shop dogs get them, mine never do. It isn't to say a dog fed kibble can't live a long healthy life -- I just prefer a certain lifestyle when it comes to diet -- both myself and my dog. To each their own. I do think people should atleast do their research in order to make choices they are comfortable with.

[buttercup132]

Guys stop fighting!
Lady's human grow up and stop bashing Bmom in every thread she makes.
Bmom I think you need to just calm down a little. I know your frusterated with alot so maybe log off PT for the night and cool off. Some of the stuff your saying isn't even making sense.

[wolf_Q]

Educating people on how they feed their dogs is important. But this is the wrong way to go about it entirely. If I were to interpret this post as real talking, you would be yelling in my face. Calm down please. I'm tired of all the fighting on the board lately.

[borzoimom]

Chicken soup is made by human grade ingredients.. Its a good one!

[borzoimom]

Guys stop fighting!
Lady's human grow up and stop bashing Bmom in every thread she makes.
Bmom I think you need to just calm down a little. I know your frusterated with alot so maybe log off PT for the night and cool off. Some of the stuff your saying isn't even making sense.
THANK YOU BUTTER CUP... I will try to calm down now.. All I posted is actual facts of the dog food industry but in one BIG running long paragraph .. But God Bless you for saying how I felt... THANK YOU ALICIA- THANK YOU! ;)

[Lady's Human]

I'm not bashing BZM.

I am sick of these "scare" threads and how bad everything (plastics, ceramics, dog food, etc.......) is for animals without a shred of scientific proof to back it up.

As an example....

Dog lifespans decreasing? Prove it. Giant breeds have ALWAYS had relatively short life spans. What is so special about 1976? I can pull stats out of my head, too.

The constant preservative rant? Preservatives are present in such minute quantities that they would be more accurately measure in PPM than weight, while the MSDS (safety data sheets) for ethoxyquin, for one, list a harmful dosage in terms of MG/KG of body weight.

There's more there, but I won't continue.

[borzoimom]

Educating people on how they feed their dogs is important. But this is the wrong way to go about it entirely. If I were to interpret this post as real talking, you would be yelling in my face. Calm down please. I'm tired of all the fighting on the board lately.
I am fine now wolf Q and I respect you. I would NEVER yell in your face.. .. Ever..

[Karen]

thats ones easy, because dogs in north america are not intended for humane consumtion they are able to pt many chemicals in the foods that would never in a million year be allowed in the feed of an animal intended for human consumtion.

But still, that's such a broad brush. Dogs have different digestive systems and different metabolisms than we do.

All food is, strictly speaking, made of "chemicals." As is all life. You and me - we are made of "chemicals."

With a statement like that, I'd want to know what specific chemicals concern you, what, if any effect they have on a dog's metabolism, and why the companies add them.

Statements like that remind me of the
"Dangers of Dihydrogen Oxide" emails/webpages/ etc. that go around sometimes. After all too much Dihydrogen Oxide will kill you - human and animals both. It can also cause untold damage to the environment, and render areas uninhabitable. etc. etc.

Dihydrogen Oxide is H2O is water. Too much or too little WILL kill you, but it's also necessary for life and nothing to be frightened of.

[Ceph]

I'm glad to hear back about chicken soup...I am pretty sure I am going to have a bag sent to both my parents. :)


lol, everything is bad for you...including Oxygen...its a toxic gas....but there are certain things we shouldnt eat...everything in moderation right?

Edit : BM....chinchilla pics, pretty, pretty please :D

[borzoimom]

Karen- what these tests were looking for was this:
* Ethoxyquin retained in muscle tissue or added
* molded and flax grains- this contains mold and grain refuse
* cancer tumors- organ or meat
* beaks and feathers, hooves, hyde, horns, ( called protein by AFCO but hardly digestable)
* BHA or BHT levels higher than human standards
*Rancid ( road kill) meats.. Like the deer you saw on the road for 4 days- picked up by companies like Valley proteins- and rendered as protein- when in fact its rancid meat..
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ....
They send you back a true statement on the food you tested. They do not want to know the brand- your name address and your fee..

[Lady's Human]

I'd be amused to see the methodology behind a test which can tell what meat was rancid in dog food that's been processed at temperatures high enough to destroy most nutrients in the food.

Hell, for $75 and a dog food sample I'll tell you anything you want to hear.

[DrKym]

Making Popcorn!! :p

[borzoimom]

And here is where it gets sick... Lets say I am a company- and I buy a great meat and grain to make food- but I need a rendering company to package it.. And of course it has to be processed.. Meanwhile rendering company has their own vitamin mix and processing- goes into a bat- added their vitamins etc- run through their machines at high temp to cook- kills allllllllllll my vitamins I had in a good mixture and its worthless- but what the hey- I got my food in a bag.. Orrrrrr I own a grain place- like that makes bread- but I need meat- well so in so sold to so in so rendering plant meat protein made of every road kill this side of you know what or meat processing plant with cancerious tumors they could not pass in our food standard- well they have to preserve it so they add their ethoxyquin, then goes to company b whichs adds their bha then to the rendering plant that adds their bht- and you know what- THE ONLY INGREDIENTS THAT HAS TO BE SHOWN IS THE FINAL PRODUCT- THEY DO NOT have to show the other additives before hand - by LAW ... They do not.. We are barely getting in the US instead of " dairy cultures" to now list exactly what that means with human food- .. It will take a long time before they have to list the same in pet foods- THINK about that one!

[.sarah]

This debate is endless. It would be more useful if someone started a thread about why it is important to know what you're feeding your dogs and how you can read labels.

The average pet owner listens to their vet and doesn't question them. For the people who have put time and energy into researching pet food diets, it's up to you to help the others understand why you should read labels to see exactly what is going into their pet's body and if they're comfortable with it. If, once they've done research, they feel their food is fine, so be it. For some people, there is more to worry about than whether their pet's food has corn or by-products in it or not. For others, it's a big concern. Just like with their own diets - some people pay close attention, others eat whatever makes them happy. Everyone is different. Not everyone wants to feed raw or agrees with feeding raw. It will always be this way. While more and more is coming about on raw feeding, I can guarantee you kibble is not going away, especially not anytime soon.

[NicoleLJ]

Dr.Goodnow I have the chips and dip. I got sick of eating the popcorn last night. Hate things getting stuck in my teeth. lol

.sarah That is why I posted the dog food analisis site. I thought it would help so peoploe could see what is in th efoods.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/ Here is is agian for those that missed it.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

This debate is endless. It would be more useful if someone started a thread about why it is important to know what you're feeding your dogs and how you can read labels.

The average pet owner listens to their vet and doesn't question them. For the people who have put time and energy into researching pet food diets, it's up to you to help the others understand why you should read labels to see exactly what is going into their pet's body and if they're comfortable with it. If, once they've done research, they feel their food is fine, so be it. For some people, there is more to worry about than whether their pet's food has corn or by-products in it or not. For others, it's a big concern. Just like with their own diets - some people pay close attention, others eat whatever makes them happy. Everyone is different. Not everyone wants to feed raw or agrees with feeding raw. It will always be this way. While more and more is coming about on raw feeding, I can guarantee you kibble is not going away, especially not anytime soon.
I agree- that is why you need a good vet!!!! One that really truely cares! You know the kind- the ones that looks at the health of a dog before loading with shots the immune system cant take.. the ones that do not say do a x ray when not needed..
This stuff spreads down the line. I read recently pets are the growing market of the business person.. GROWING MARKET??? Since when did my dogs become someone elses market????

[areias]

Making Popcorn!! :p

I was about say the same thing...

well, I brought pizza home, so how about some pizza?? :D

[borzoimom]

Dr.Goodnow I have the chips and dip. I got sick of eating the popcorn last night. Hate things getting stuck in my teeth. lol

.sarah That is why I posted the dog food analisis site. I thought it would help so peoploe could see what is in th efoods.
Nicole
Man- I want a drink.. got any 7 anyone??? and I dont have any soda.. man I wish i had cheese cake... who had the strawberries.. lolllllllllllllllllll..

[DrKym]

I was about say the same thing...

well, I brought pizza home, so how about some pizza?? :D

oh YUMMY thanks so much the bar is open on the other thread also and I know the Luau is under way! Need to run over an tend bar till RICHARD arrives!

[Ceph]

I was about say the same thing...

well, I brought pizza home, so how about some pizza?? :D


LOL...dont foget the ambient background noise...tnt is running reruns :p

Dude...its all about the girl drinks...I love me some girl scout cookie - its like a liquid thin mint in a really big glass

[borzoimom]

LOL...dont foget the ambient background noise...tnt is running reruns :p
ROFLMBO.. okay guys- got the point- pass the cheese cake...

[areias]

I have some KettelOne, will that work? :D

And I brought some Ol' Roy for the dogs, I think it's a decent food....




LOL Definately kidding on that one!

[borzoimom]

I have some KettelOne, will that work? :D

And I brought some Ol' Roy for the dogs, I think it's a decent food....




LOL Definately kidding on that one!
( FAINTS on the floor.. ) lollllllllllllllllllllllll.. very funny!!! pass me the nachos..

[Ceph]

Lindt chocolate anyone? Dark or milk?

[borzoimom]

Lindt chocolate anyone? Dark or milk?
Dark... rofl.. lol..

[Ceph]

choclate does wonders for relaxing the world...I eat it whenever one of my buddies does something stupid....ahh...choclate...

something about those endorphins....

[borzoimom]

choclate does wonders for relaxing the world...I eat it whenever one of my buddies does something stupid....ahh...choclate...

something about those endorphins....
snoreeeeeeeeeeeee must be working.. lol.. THANK YOU!

[areias]

Lindt chocolate anyone? Dark or milk?

The kind with peanut butter in the middle. :D

Do you have any alcohol filled ones??

[borzoimom]

The kind with peanut butter in the middle. :D

Do you have any alcohol filled ones??
HIC... uhhhhhhh... what??? lolllllllll..

[areias]

Hehehe...wait...I don't know. This morning's headache was a killer.

Ahh, nothing a bottle of aspirin won't fix. Pass the alcoholic chocolates to me!

[borzoimom]

Hehehe...wait...I don't know. This morning's headache was a killer.

Ahh, nothing a bottle of aspirin won't fix. Pass the alcoholic chocolates to me!
** hic-*** sure... lol..

[Ceph]

lol...this isnt good...I have to be up for a run at 5am tomorrow morning....lol...nothing like running still drunk (seriously, the funniest thing ever to watch other poeple do ;) )

I dunno...my dad just sent my this new chocolate with creme brulee in the center....it's divine...might just trump alcholic choclates....

[borzoimom]

ohhhhhhhhhhhh man *** hic*** and i didnt bring any cool whip... ** hic*** :D

[areias]

There was an episode of one of those popular sitcoms...can't remember which one...but his wife was sitting there injecting donuts with liquor. Sounded good to me!

[Scooter's Mom]

nm, started a thread for my question.

[dukedogsmom]

I have a question. I've been feeding Dasher Pro Plan Senior. Is that good? This is after spending a long time looking at all the different dog foods at Petco.

[borzoimom]

I'll add some fuel here... with a real question.

When I got my Shih Tzu, the previous owners were feeding her beneful. I switched her over to Iams, small chunks, because I had heard it was a better food. Currently I have her eating Merrick's products (Grammy's pot pie right now). If I put down Iams, which I still have half a bag of, she won't go near it... at all! But as soon as the Merrick hits the floor (in a bowl, mind you) she is all over it.

Is Merrick a better food, or does she just like it better?
Smart little girl!! Yes - Merrick is a better quality grade in ingrediants than Iams.

[borzoimom]

I have a question. I've been feeding Dasher Pro Plan Senior. Is that good? This is after spending a long time looking at all the different dog foods at Petco.
Pro Plan is one of those foods- if the chemistry of the food, and digestion works for your dog- it does so very well. The problems reported with pro plan are allergies- something a dog can get from any food that the mixture doesnt work for them. They use to use high levels of ethoxyquin and BHA, however- that has changed.
If the food is working for her- I would stick with it- especially with a senior dog.

[elizabethann]

borzoimom, do you subscribe to Whole Dog Journal? The past 2 issues has been on the quality of dog foods (kibble & canned). They rate what they consider the best quality dog food. It's a very interesting article. PM if you would like a copy. :)

[borzoimom]

Pm sent- .. as you can tell, I collect dog food information. lol..

[Freedom]

It would be more useful if someone started a thread about why it is important to know what you're feeding your dogs and how you can read labels.

The average pet owner listens to their vet and doesn't question them.

You are so right. I should know better, but that is what I did for 12 years. I got a cat, then another . . . and my vet said use Science Diet, so I did. Then 3 months ago, I adopted Sugar. Her foster mom was feeding Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover, but I couldn't find it in the stores I was in. Checked with my vet, followed his rec again, and so I got a bag of Science Diet dog. Sugar turned up her nose, refused to use it. . . . Hmm. Got a bag of Nutro Natural Choice. Again she refused to eat. Now it's been THREE DAYS and the dog is not eating! Needless to say, I am panicking!

So I got on line, found the Chicken Soup web site, and found a dealer near me. (Note: the dealers closest to me are pet stores, they sell puppies. I refuse to go to them. So I am traveling a bit.) Sugar ate to make up for not eating for three days. TA DAA!

Then I started asking here on Pet Talk. This is why I love Pet Talk. NOT for all the bickering and yacking, and yes I DO love seeing all your photos. But I value all the variety of backgrounds people bring to this site. And varied areas of expertise, trials and errors, experience and failure. EVERYONE who participates on here has some useful ideas and suggestions.

So I learned about what to look for in a pet food. I made some decisions based on my budget, my values. Then I moved back to the cat side and did some discussions there. And I looked at web sites for food.

Seven weeks ago, I switched the cats over to Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover. And they took to it right away. They refused to finish off the Science Diet! For years my vet told me cats only need to eat twice per day. And I replied that MY cats hadn't read that book! For the first time in 12 years of cat ownership, my cats are eating twice per day, NOT 5 and 6 times and more. They are more active. With no work on my part, the pudgy ones are trimming down. The oldest, Ruffles, developed hyperthyroidism in January and wasn't doing well, even on the meds. Changed her food and she is happy and healthy again! (yes, still on the meds, too.)

The cat Science Diet, the dog Science Diet and the dog Nutro all were donated to the city pound, as none of mine would touch it anymore.

I should know better. I should have known to read and learn about the food I am getting for my pets. Thank goodness for Pet Talk!!!!

[JenBKR]

Wow....I really don't know what else to say


This is sad. :( no joke.


It is sad, really sad. I debated even responding, but I have to say that I am a bit worried about you borzoimom........

[borzoimom]

Wow....I really don't know what else to say




It is sad, really sad. I debated even responding, but I have to say that I am a bit worried about you borzoimom........
I am perfectly fine! I have been studying dog foods since the early 80's- out of necessity to feed my own dogs. Then as a trainer, as only a properly fed dog can compete at the level I was doing. Then of course- there were the puppies- trying to feed right from weaning as the organs of the pup start to develop and their bone structure as well.

Its a very serious subject to me. EXTREMELY! And it makes me mad that some companies are just trying to make a buck, with little regard to the actual quality of their food. ITS NO different than the anger I have towards BYB's- they are doing the same type of thing- trying to make a buck with no regard to the actual health of the animals or the conditions of living the dogs live in.. Same thing- try to make a product with the cheapest ingredients you can find- regardless of the quality, for the highest price you can sell it for.

Case in point- several of the foods you can now get at Walmart- and even those sold at pet stores- use to cost alot more money! The main reason their price came down- was not " concern for the consumer paying this much money for their food- ..NOOOOO- the prices came down on those foods because with the Other foods- that are better in quality, and cheaper started to show up on the market. They had to lower the price on the market- or go under... People are getting smarter as time goes- but no longer do us dog show etc people believe every word they write- or their advertising either. You wouldnt buy a car based on a pretty sticker without looking under the hood or checking reports would you??? NEITHER would I..

AND LET ME note this- I have been feeding raw since 1984..- ever wonder why I have continued to look into dog food if I am " so happy " with raw???? The reason is simple- I keep waiting for some company to come up with a food that meets expectations across the board- and it hasn't happened yet!. I want a food that has human grade ingredients in ALL the ingredients, no preservatives known to cause cancer or even suspect of cancer, I want a product that is made well enough to not swell in the gut cause GVD ( bloat), and more convient than chopping up raw. I do not mind doing the raw as to me its a labor of love, And -at least I know FOR A FACT what is in that bowl I put down for my dogs- my kids- my love in life!

[IRescue452]

Had you asked for one, I'd have given you an amen at the end of the first post. I'm so glad I educated myself and switched to raw. We still don't expect Autumn to live past 10, but when she was younger I estimated 7. She's still got her mystery limp, but good food isn't going to fix it if its a nerve problem. Table scraps are better than commercial food, assuming the humans eat decent and not microwavable food every night. In fact, back when dogs were living long hard working lives, many got table scraps to live off of. They got a better variety of nutrients than commercial food offers.

[borzoimom]

Had you asked for one, I'd have given you an amen at the end of the first post. I'm so glad I educated myself and switched to raw. We still don't expect Autumn to live past 10, but when she was younger I estimated 7. She's still got her mystery limp, but good food isn't going to fix it if its a nerve problem. Table scraps are better than commercial food, assuming the humans eat decent and not microwavable food every night. In fact, back when dogs were living long hard working lives, many got table scraps to live off of. They got a better variety of nutrients than commercial food offers.
Please keep this in mind IRescue= THEY told me when Hottie was 2 he would not make 5! He just turned 9. And he has his days, but even vet says that his longer life span is directly related to receiving equal balence of calcium and phosophrus-. These are bonding "agents" with each other- and if not the same in the food, it will make calcium deposits, or weaker bones etc. None of the foods at this point have equal amounts of both in the mix- except raw..
How much longer does Hottie have? I do not know- but as I learned last year- DO NOT count the old man out. With his condition the vet said he is the same as a 15 year old dog. I wish I could go back in time when he was injured- been there, and taken him to a specialist.. But I cant change time or events- just how I deal with it since I got him.
Here is a video take last night of Hottie coming up the outside stairs- not bad at all Hottie Doodles.. View My Video (http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2zow5sz)

[BorderColliez]

BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH, BASH!!!
Eeeeesh guys, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I agree with Borzoimom. What triggered you to make this thread though? What happened??

Like buttercup said, some people need to calm down and grow up, ok?

IF YOU DONT HAVE SOMETHING NICE TO SAY DON'T SAY IT AT ALL!!


Guys stop fighting!
Lady's human grow up and stop bashing Bmom in every thread she makes.
Bmom I think you need to just calm down a little. I know your frusterated with alot so maybe log off PT for the night and cool off. Some of the stuff your saying isn't even making sense.
D*** I couldn't agree more!!

[Catlady711]

Table scraps are better than commercial food, assuming the humans eat decent and not microwavable food every night.


Of the dogs/cats that come in to our hospital with diabetes and pancreatitis 99% of them are fed table scraps. Just ask our 2 most recent clients who lost their dogs to pancreatitis from feeding table scraps just ONE TIME! Type of food and fequency does make a serious difference.

[borzoimom]

Of the dogs/cats that come in to our hospital with diabetes and pancreatitis 99% of them are fed table scraps. Just ask our 2 most recent clients who lost their dogs to pancreatitis from feeding table scraps just ONE TIME! Type of food and fequency does make a serious difference.
I think Irescue meant- raw food- not from the table with over cooked meat enzymes and higher salt etc..

[elizabethann]

Of the dogs/cats that come in to our hospital with diabetes and pancreatitis 99% of them are fed table scraps. Just ask our 2 most recent clients who lost their dogs to pancreatitis from feeding table scraps just ONE TIME! Type of food and fequency does make a serious difference.

Let me see if I have this correct, they fed their dog table scraps one time and it died? What table scaps did the dog get?

I just don't get it. What did they feed the dog for it to just die like that?

That poor dog and that poor family. They must have felt guilty.

[3GSDMom]

Stepping in for a quick question :)

What are your thoughts on Maximum?

I'm the type of person that reads the ingredients before I even consider buying the food for my dogs. I went through three entire aisle's of dog food in Petsmart looking at ingredients of over 20 different brands before choosing about 10 brands to further investigate.

Then I happen to walk into Walmart and see Maximum. It has no corn and no by products in it. The affordable price is what makes me wonder if it is a high quality food (about $14-$15 for a 20lb bag, whereas I was paying $25 for a 20lb bag of Chicken Soup).

[borzoimom]

Let me see if I have this correct, they fed their dog table scraps one time and it died? What table scaps did the dog get?

I just don't get it. What did they feed the dog for it to just die like that?

That poor dog and that poor family. They must have felt guilty.
I am not sure what reference to specfic situations Catty meant- but I do know- if you feed a dog cooked meat can cause this condition. Especially if cooked bone..

[caseysmom]

I hope table scraps don't mean raw...blech....thats gross.

[borzoimom]

Stepping in for a quick question :)

What are your thoughts on Maximum?

I'm the type of person that reads the ingredients before I even consider buying the food for my dogs. I went through three entire aisle's of dog food in Petsmart looking at ingredients of over 20 different brands before choosing about 10 brands to further investigate.

Then I happen to walk into Walmart and see Maximum. It has no corn and no by products in it. The affordable price is what makes me wonder if it is a high quality food (about $14-$15 for a 20lb bag, whereas I was paying $25 for a 20lb bag of Chicken Soup).
I am afraid I do not know that one. Maybe its local in your area. Who is the maker? ( making this up but like " made by Iams, Ol'roy, pedigree) etc.. Can you copy the label- I would like to look at it. You got me curious.. lol

[IRescue452]

Commercial foods often cause an enlarged pacreas. I wonder if you can actually find a connection between one time table scrap and the problem, or if the problem was an underlying condition already there.

[3GSDMom]

Heh, figured it would spark your interest ;)

I honestly can't find any other name than Maxximum (I spelled it wrong the first time). It specifically says that there are no Animal By products, No artificial colors, flavors or preservatives. As well as no corn.

I went ahead and took a few pictures of the bag to see if that helps at all. I've never heard of it prior to seeing it at Walmart, but a friend of mine who lives in Wisconsin has heard of it (I'm in California).

Heres what the bag looks like
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/doggybyts89/Maxximumdogfood001.jpg

And here's the ingredients
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/doggybyts89/Maxximumdogfood.jpg

[GreyhoundGirl]

I was about say the same thing...

well, I brought pizza home, so how about some pizza?? :D

Only her service is horrible. I asked her for a pizza in december and she said she'd send it right away... It STILL hasn't arrived... It's going to be stone cold..

[DrKym]

Chicken meal is a by product of chickens.....................
there are a few other things in there I would be uncomfortable with but it is my opinion, not a fact. I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with the sorghum, and honestly the beet pulp. Again just my op. As I said I feed RAW so other than the foster dogs that are adopted out I don't use the products (some fosters stay on RAW and some new owners prefer kibble).

[borzoimom]

Heh, figured it would spark your interest ;)

I honestly can't find any other name than Maxximum (I spelled it wrong the first time). It specifically says that there are no Animal By products, No artificial colors, flavors or preservatives. As well as no corn.

I went ahead and took a few pictures of the bag to see if that helps at all. I've never heard of it prior to seeing it at Walmart, but a friend of mine who lives in Wisconsin has heard of it (I'm in California).

Heres what the bag looks like
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/doggybyts89/Maxximumdogfood001.jpg

And here's the ingredients
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/doggybyts89/Maxximumdogfood.jpg
Thank you- its made by a Purina sub.. I recognize it now. It does have corn meal- and rich in glucosime means- its corn heart which is where the nutrition is in the corn..
I do see beet pulp- watch that.. It will make gas in the gut..
My computer doesn't have that one in a lab report to give the actual final product- but lamb is usually more clean.. I will look into it if you want me too and pm you.. It does contain blueberry- which is great for the immune system. And Taurine is good for eye sight.

[3GSDMom]

Thank you- its made by a Purina sub.. I recognize it now. It does have corn meal- and rich in glucosime means- its corn heart which is where the nutrition is in the corn..
I do see beet pulp- watch that.. It will make gas in the gut..
My computer doesn't have that one in a lab report to give the actual final product- but lamb is usually more clean.. I will look into it if you want me too and pm you.. It does contain blueberry- which is great for the immune system.

I'd appreciate it. ;)

Im not familiar with the "fancy" (LOL) names in ingredients so I often have to ask my dad what something is. Once you "dumb" the names down for me I know what to do. LoL.

[borzoimom]

I'd appreciate it. ;)

Im not familiar with the "fancy" (LOL) names in ingredients so I often have to ask my dad what something is. Once you "dumb" the names down for me I know what to do. LoL.
Nahhhh--- you are not " dumb".. lol. Can you copy the ingredients- and then I will edit and tell you what each is for. I tried.. but it wont copy to paste..
Please understand- the corn meal has my eyebrows up- but the rest looks like something better-- . Without knowing the rendering source at this point- its hard to say. But the vitamin mixure looks good and in the right order. And although the FDA doesnt regulate dog food- they do have " truth in labeling.." hmmm.

[3GSDMom]

Sure, I'll get them all typed up for you and send them right over.

[borzoimom]

Sure, I'll get them all typed up for you and send them right over.
Okay- you can send by pm if you want..Returned back to you.. that should explain each and every ingredient..

[Catlady711]

Let me see if I have this correct, they fed their dog table scraps one time and it died? What table scaps did the dog get?

I just don't get it. What did they feed the dog for it to just die like that?

That poor dog and that poor family. They must have felt guilty.
Both dogs didn't die immediately after eating this stuff, they got sick and just went downhill fast. All the lab work kept looking worse and worse every day.

In the case of the one dog it was fed sausage, I can't remember if it was raw or cooked though.

In the case of the second dog I wasn't there the day it came in for diagnosis, I'm unsure if it was fed table food, or got into the garbage with the table food.

Since I've worked there I've seen the following foods cause pancreatitis...
Sausage
Pizza
Turkey with gravy
Hamburger (like fast food kind)
basically anything spicy or fatty.

And yes just one time of feeding some of these things can cause pancreatitis, although not all pets die from this.

As for the diabetes most of those animals are overweight and have a diet high in fat, or many treats (including table scraps except for raw veggies).

Here are some links on pancreatitis that go into more detail about it.

Pancreatitis (http://www.cpvh.com/Articles/81.html)

CVM (College of Veterinary Medicine) - pancreatitis (http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=260)

Vetinfo.com - pancreatitis (http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/depancrea.html)

[borzoimom]

ouch- sausage???? wow.. not good..

[elizabethann]

Yikes! I've fed Fenway pizza, turkey (without the gravy) and McDonald's burgers before!

Basically, he gets a pretty good diet but once in a great while, I will share some of my food (like the above).

[dukedogsmom]

Of the dogs/cats that come in to our hospital with diabetes and pancreatitis 99% of them are fed table scraps. Just ask our 2 most recent clients who lost their dogs to pancreatitis from feeding table scraps just ONE TIME! Type of food and fequency does make a serious difference.
Duke almost died from it. He spent a week at the vet. After that, no more table scraps. I guess it depends on what they're being fed, too. This was gravy from meat.

[Glacier]

I guess it depends on what they're being fed, too. This was gravy from meat.

Sometimes food is irrelavant in pancreatitis. Preacher had two near fatal bouts with it; Paxil and Earle both had life threatening acute attacks that have settled into chronic pancreatitis. None of them had eaten anything high fat or outside of their normal diet preceeding the initial attack. It can just happen. Heyoka has counter-surfed whole pounds of butter and never developed anything negative!

[jackie]

borzoimom,

How you say something is as important as what you say.

Your first post might have had loads of information, but I can't get beyond the first 4 or 5 points. The all-caps and bolded words make it read like a chain email, and distracts from what you are say.

Not a bash, just for future reference.

[pitc9]

Heyoka has counter-surfed whole pounds of butter and never developed anything negative!

Ewwww!!! BUTTER!! :D Crazy Dog! Go for the Meat!! The MEAT I tell you! :D

I feed Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach, after trying TONS of foods this was the one that worked for Sierra. (I figured out it was a poultry allergy)
Then along came Buddy and he gets the same thing.
It's not the best food in the world but
#1 I could be feeding them Gravy Train
#2 it works for my dogs & they are healthy

Over the years my parents GSD mix Toby has polished off the following with out suffering major consequences:
Entire box of choclate covererd cherries
1 pound bag peanut M&M's
2 pound summer sausage (plastic shrink wrap and all)
Boxes of cookies that my dad left in the living room
And she will be 13 years old on April 1st.

[borzoimom]

borzoimom,

How you say something is as important as what you say.

Your first post might have had loads of information, but I can't get beyond the first 4 or 5 points. The all-caps and bolded words make it read like a chain email, and distracts from what you are say.

Not a bash, just for future reference.
Its my writing and triggered by something I do not care to discuss right now. And yes I know- not a bash. Hopefully I will not have another episode that triggered this one. .. It was just that- a rant..

[dukedogsmom]

Ewwww!!! BUTTER!! :D Crazy Dog! Go for the Meat!! The MEAT I tell you! :D


I agree. That's one crazy dog! You know, I had originally typed in that I thought it depended on the dog, too. Dasher gets a little people food. Though it's evident that whomever had him before fed it to him all the time. He loves to share my popcorn :D

[IRescue452]

Autumn's eaten a whole pound bag of m&m's as well. Thankfully she made it outside before throwing up. I'll never forget the smell of m&m puke. She threw up pretty much the whole pound. She got into a metal container and open the sealed plastic bag to get them.

[lizbud]

borzoimom,

How you say something is as important as what you say.

Your first post might have had loads of information, but I can't get beyond the first 4 or 5 points. The all-caps and bolded words make it read like a chain email, and distracts from what you are say.

Not a bash, just for future reference.


The initial post makes little sense. People in a wild rage never make good
sense. It's been called "going postal", I think. The build up to this rant was
created in another thread.

[borzoimom]

The initial post makes little sense. People in a wild rage never make good
sense. It's been called "going postal", I think. The build up to this rant was
created in another thread.
No- it didn't come from another thread- .. It came from an event- two of them actually during my day.

[critter crazy]

All I know is that just because people do things differently does not make them wrong! It also does not mean that they love their pets any less. You cannot just attack people just because you think they are wrong. to each their own! I dont understand why this has to be such a huge argument! Just because some people choose to feed their dogs kibble does not make them a horrible pet owner. I dont understand why people just cannot accept this.

[caseysmom]

All I know is that just because people do things differently does not make them wrong! It also does not mean that they love their pets any less. You cannot just attack people just because you think they are wrong. to each their own! I dont understand why this has to be such a huge argument! Just because some people choose to feed their dogs kibble does not make them a horrible pet owner. I dont understand why people just cannot accept this.

Amen!

[borzoimom]

All I know is that just because people do things differently does not make them wrong! It also does not mean that they love their pets any less. You cannot just attack people just because you think they are wrong. to each their own! I dont understand why this has to be such a huge argument! Just because some people choose to feed their dogs kibble does not make them a horrible pet owner. I dont understand why people just cannot accept this.
I am not saying do not feed kibble- I am saying know what you are feeding etc.And do your own research.

[Ceph]

hey....werent we drinking last time I was here?

[borzoimom]

hey....werent we drinking last time I was here?
lolllllllllllllll.. I have BBQ ribs- wants some? Thanks Ceph..

[NicoleLJ]

All I know is that just because people do things differently does not make them wrong! It also does not mean that they love their pets any less. You cannot just attack people just because you think they are wrong. to each their own! I dont understand why this has to be such a huge argument! Just because some people choose to feed their dogs kibble does not make them a horrible pet owner. I dont understand why people just cannot accept this.

Exactly what I posted and my feelings exactly.
Nicole

[Ceph]

I would love some....I had mmmm good college dining hall food..... :eek:

[borzoimom]

and cold slaw???