Science Diet?

[PJ's Mom]

Does anyone here feed their dogs Science Diet? Is it a good food? I just started Peej and Bailey on Science Diet Mature and they seem to like it well enough. I just hope its a good food for them.

[borzoimom]

Was this food recommended by your vet for a health problem?

[PJ's Mom]

Not for a health problem, but she did say it was time to switch them to a senior food.

[borzoimom]

Then you can do better than that. I wanted to make sure the dogs were not on it for health reasons. Science diet is pretty low on the scale in quality.
What allergies do you dogs have? Or like any arthritis etc?

[cyber-sibes]

I have always fed mine Science Diet & they are very healthy.

Science Diet gets a mixed review here on PT. One of the objections is usually that it contains corn, which can't be digested whole, but my vet (who used to work near their plant) told me that it is so finely ground, it is not a problem. She felt its actually a very good kibble. You'll here other objections here too.

Science Diet also produces lines of specialty formulas often prescribed by vets for different problems.

[borzoimom]

cyber sibes- I am glad your dogs are doing well- however the fact is- only the "heart"/pulp of corn can be digested even finely ground still turns into a filler that is passed in the stool.
Rules with diets- if you see no side affects- probably not to switch. However- this is taking place.
If I knew if your dogs have allergies ( which I rather doubt considering what they are eating now.. ) I can post a few ideas.
There are countless threads on food on this site. So a search and you will get more information.

[PJ's Mom]

They don't have any allergies to anything. They're very healthy and I've heard good things about Science Diet.

[borzoimom]

They don't have any allergies to anything. They're very healthy and I've heard good things about Science Diet.
Then feed it if you want too. There are many others that have a been quality in the ingredients- and considering that dogs eat the same thing, twice a day, 365 days a year- I would get a better quality diet. There are several- Innova, timberwolf, solid gold, chicken soup for dogs.. etc.

[Aspen and Misty]

We feed Science Diet at my work, next time we get a bag in I'll read the ingredients but to be honest I've heard pretty good things about it. It is a lower grade food then some of the high quality foods but if it works for your dogs I say don't feel bad for feeding it. My boss goes to seminars on how great science diet is and he says they are very convincing.

If you still work at a Petshotel ask your manager for one of the science diet coupon fliers, my work always has at least 40 to 50 on hand. Inside it gives information about the food and product.

Ashley

[lizbud]

They don't have any allergies to anything. They're very healthy and I've heard good things about Science Diet.


I would listen to your Vet and also to your own good sense on what to
feed your dogs. Science Diet is a perfectly good choice to make. I would
also take the word of a Vet, whom I trust with the health of my dogs, to
suggest the food that's best for them, before I listened to some unknown
person on an internet website.

[borzoimom]

read this link.. Notice who really makes Science diet.. http://www.dog-spoiling-made-easy.com/dog_food_ingredients.html

[wolf_Q]

I, personally, would not feed Science Diet. I don't think its a horrible food, but I think there's better foods available. But I think if your dogs are doing well on it and thats what you want to feed, then that is fine. I feed the best dog food that is available to me (Natural Balance). Yes there are others that are supposed to be better than that, and for a while I drove a half hour to buy other foods, when I work at a pet store and can buy dog food right there. Nebo didn't do any better on that food, so I decided to just stick with Natural Balance.

[kittycats_delight]

I have never been a fan of Science Diet. I don't know a whole lot about the dog food but I wouldn't feed the cat food to my cats so I wouldn't feed the dog food to my dog either.

I am feeding a commercial dog and cat food to my animals. They all get Royal Canin. The cats are on a type to keep their immune system high as my Vixen is felv+ and Artica is one A junior formula for puppies 2 -9 months old.

[luvofallhorses]

We feed the dogs and cats at the shelter Science Diet and they do fine on it. :) IMO it's a lot better than some foods out there.

[borzoimom]

I have never been a fan of Science Diet. I don't know a whole lot about the dog food but I wouldn't feed the cat food to my cats so I wouldn't feed the dog food to my dog either.

I am feeding a commercial dog and cat food to my animals. They all get Royal Canin. The cats are on a type to keep their immune system high as my Vixen is felv+ and Artica is one A junior formula for puppies 2 -9 months old.
I like Royal Canin too! They were one of the first to step up to the plate in going with natural preservatives- at least they have moral character..
I have alot of opinons on Science diet- but the biggest complaint I have is that its made by Colgate for God sake.
I would also suggest Bil Jac senior- but its lower in calories so unless the dogs are on the heavy side- there are still others you can try as listed above.

[caseysmom]

I like Royal Canin too! They were one of the first to step up to the plate in going with natural preservatives- at least they have moral character..
I have alot of opinons on Science diet- but the biggest complaint I have is that its made by Colgate for God sake.
I would also suggest Bil Jac senior- but its lower in calories so unless the dogs are on the heavy side- there are still others you can try as listed above.

Just curious, what is wrong with colgate?

[PJ's Mom]

Isn't Bil Jac a generic food? Sorry for my ignorance, but I thought it was made by Wal-Mart or something. :o

[lizbud]

I have alot of opinons on Science diet- but the biggest complaint I have is that its made by Colgate for God sake.


You seem to have a lot of opinions on many things, but that's all it is,
just one opinion. Heck, we all have opinions. There's no need to convert
everyone into thinking as you do, is there?

[borzoimom]

Isn't Bil Jac a generic food? Sorry for my ignorance, but I thought it was made by Wal-Mart or something. :o
Bil Jac is Made by Kelly. Kelly makes it.
I took my dogs off it a little while back as the added food, but loved the ingredients. I took them off because they already get raw chicken, and I wanted to have a secondary or 3rd meat source in case I had to feed kibble with power problems. As shown in the dog video on feeding raw- I use a 1/4 cup of Solid gold lamb, and 1/4 cup wolf king bison. ( that is for 4 100 pound dogs basically.) That is ground up to prevent expanding kibble in the gut, and put in with their veggie mix.

[caseysmom]

You seem to have a lot of opinions on many things, but that's all it is,
just one opinion. Heck, we all have opinions. There's no need to convert
everyone into thinking as you do, is there?

Well said.

[king2005]

Chad's friend use to work for Nurto & he said Science Diet was made in the same factory as Nutro.

Are they the same company or partners?


Bear is on Science Diet & so far I'm not impressed with it. When both bags are gone, I'm putting her on Nutro. Diet & Senior. Bear doesn't really like the diet stuff, but LOVES the senior, so I mix the 2 & she'll gobble it up lol

I find her poop is large with Science Diet, compaired to when I used Nutro with my old dog (both are large dogs)...

Her fur is 100x better then it was when we rescued her, but its still dry & not glossy, like my old dogs.

[borzoimom]

Chad's friend use to work for Nurto & he said Science Diet was made in the same factory as Nutro.

Are they the same company or partners?


Bear is on Science Diet & so far I'm not impressed with it. When both bags are gone, I'm putting her on Nutro. Diet & Senior. Bear doesn't really like the diet stuff, but LOVES the senior, so I mix the 2 & she'll gobble it up lol

I find her poop is large with Science Diet, compaired to when I used Nutro with my old dog (both are large dogs)...

Her fur is 100x better then it was when we rescued her, but its still dry & not glossy, like my old dogs.
Not sure about that one- I will have to look it up. The only compliant I ever had against Nutro is that they have recalls.. On the other hand- at least they recall the food verses letting it go unchecked. I do not follow Nutro anymore. I got into serious research on dogs foods in the early 80's and just continued to follow it.

[caseysmom]

So what is wrong with Colgate?

[PJ's Mom]

The point to this thread was to make sure I wasn't paying $25 a bag for something that's as bad as Alpo or Kibbles and Bits. I didn't want tempers to flare. ;)

I don't want to have to switch foods over and over trying to find something they like and that's good for them. Let's face it, they'll eat just about anything ( :D ) but it's up to me to find something that's really good for them.

[JenBKR]

Personally I don't think that Science Diet is anywhere near Kibbles and Bits or Alpo, although I am certainly no expert in the field. I think you should be fine with it, especially if that's what your vet recommends. :)

[king2005]

The point to this thread was to make sure I wasn't paying $25 a bag for something that's as bad as Alpo or Kibbles and Bits. I didn't want tempers to flare. ;)

I don't want to have to switch foods over and over trying to find something they like and that's good for them. Let's face it, they'll eat just about anything ( :D ) but it's up to me to find something that's really good for them.

I don't think Science Diet is a poor food. Its by far not the best, but its not toxic like kibbles n bits.

Chad & I made an agreement that we would try Science Diet first & if we didn't like the results compaired to our old dogs being on Nutro, then the next bags would be nutro.

Bear hasn't been ill off the food or anything like that (but its only been 1.5 months)... Its just the stool size & fur quality I don't like.

Luckly Chad has noticed that Bear tends to be covered in what we call Snow lol... Hes grossed out by it, so I know I'll have an easy time talkin ghim into switching the brands.

But like I said, its still a good food to use & I like the variety they have :D Its a food I'd recommend to someone who cannot afford the top brands, but still want a healthy & safe food (no by-products, & no BHA/BHT).

[JenBKR]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I would have thought that Bil-jac is actually a worse food than Science Diet. The ingredients don't look so good.....

[beeniesmom]

Everyone here seems to be a doggie nutritionist. :p JK
After trying many foods, I give mine dry nutro and wet merrick or beneful.
They like it and it gives them nice poops, good looking coat and shiney eyes, plenty of energy.

[borzoimom]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I would have thought that Bil-jac is actually a worse food than Science Diet. The ingredients don't look so good.....
Bil Jac is solid chicken with chicken organs as the by product. Its also not extruded so it doesnt swell in the stomach, and also turns to 'mush " almost immediately. Its also what I feed puppies before they are ready for raw mixed with esbalac.

[king2005]

The only compliant I ever had against Nutro is that they have recalls.. On the other hand- at least they recall the food verses letting it go unchecked.

I'd rather a company become public & say "WE SCREWED UP, PLEASE RETURN THE PRODUCT!" Instead of denying it & having thousands of animals die or suffer... Remember that horrible issue several months ago :(

People need to realize that nothing can ever be perfect 100% of the time. But if the company is doing its best to make sure miss haps don't happen & they admit to the error & try to correct it, then they are a good company.

[borzoimom]

I'd rather a company become public & say "WE SCREWED UP, PLEASE RETURN THE PRODUCT!" Instead of denying it & having thousands of animals die or suffer... Remember that horrible issue several months ago :(

People need to realize that nothing can ever be perfect 100% of the time. But if the company is doing its best to make sure miss haps don't happen & they admit to the error & try to correct it, then they are a good company.
OH I TOTALLY AGREE!!! A company that will stand by their food is better than those that uh dont..

[beeniesmom]

I never knew they had a recall???
I knew that diamond food was killing animals but I never heard of a nutro recall. When?

[areias]

Science Diet is not as bad as kibbles n bits, but I honestly I won't pay that much for a dog food when I can get a better one for cheaper. I feed Nature's Recipe for the adults, and Nutro Puppy for Romeo and Skye.

I know someone said the other day that Nature's Recipe started using a rendering plant..that dosen't bother me one bit. It has flax seed, oatmeal, lamb...stuff that I like.

Science Diet is 35lbs for $30..Nature's Recipe is $26 for 40 lbs.

The BEST foods you can get, as someone said, is Innova, Chicken Soup, etc. I simply can't afford to feed this many dogs on $45 a bag, or I would.

And Biljac's 3rd ingredient is corn, I crossed that food off my list a long time ago.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I'm still waiting to hear what's wrong with Colgate?

[king2005]

I never knew they had a recall???
I knew that diamond food was killing animals but I never heard of a nutro recall. When?

Thats the brand I was trying to remember... Diamond...

Ya Nutro had a recall many years ago, forget why though.
They also use to use animals that were PTS, but once realized that the chemicals in the animals that were PTS were going into the food & harming pets, they stopped using animals that were PTS.

[JenBKR]

I feed Chicken Soup, and I'm very happy with it. I get it at a specialty feed store, and it's at a great price there. I pay less than $30 for the big bag (don't remember how much comes in the bag though). I actually did try to feed Roscoe Science Diet when we first got him, but he didn't really like it so much :)

[lizbud]

I'm still waiting to hear what's wrong with Colgate?


I think the swami is uh.. still... aw.. well, researching it. :D

[JenBKR]

I'm still waiting to hear what's wrong with Colgate?

hmm I'm rather curious myself.......

[kittycats_delight]

I'm still waiting to hear what's wrong with Colgate?

LOL...I don't think it has anything to do with there being anything wrong with colgate but colgate is a toothpaste company and we are talking dogfood. Usually when you have a company branching off in a hundred different direction that means the quality of the porduct drops. JMO

[Daisy and Delilah]

Thanks everybody :D :D :D

[borzoimom]

I think the swami is uh.. still... aw.. well, researching it. :D
The what??? I didnt hear anyone ask for it. Colgate is a soap company and use more chemicals than most. They were also one of the last that dropped ethoxyquin long after even Iams dropped it. Meanwhile- all the other foods had dropped it, as they continued to use it. We use NO Colgate products in this house- NONE!

[king2005]

Usually when you have a company branching off in a hundred different direction that means the quality of the porduct drops. JMO

That could be true... but I hope thats not the reason if its not true.

Look at the company I work for "Samsung"... Did you know they have the best insurance, the best hospital, the best hotels, the best children fundrasing thing(I totally forget what its for, omg I'm so dead lol), & the #1 coloured tvs in the world? The company is trying to be the best in everything in its electronic department. They don't want anymore cheap junk coming from this company, its now a high end only. The Blu-Ray was delayed months because it just wasn't ready. Sony put theres out on time not caring, HA, they ran into loads of issues, that they knew about but wanted to rush things :P

[cyber-sibes]

Science Diet is 35lbs for $30..Nature's Recipe is $26 for 40 lbs.It cost me $27.45, including tax, for a 40 lb. bag of Science Diet at Petsupplies Plus last week.

[Lady's Human]

Just one question.......

What is the process of extrusion and why is it so bad?

[borzoimom]

LOL...I don't think it has anything to do with there being anything wrong with colgate but colgate is a toothpaste company and we are talking dogfood. Usually when you have a company branching off in a hundred different direction that means the quality of the porduct drops. JMO
EXACTLY!

[DrKym]

Just one question.......

What is the process of extrusion and why is it so bad?

Extrusion is the process of extruding the food and then "puffing" it usually baked or fried into a kibble , the reason it MAY cause an issue is that some dogs are more prone to bloat. Hence an artificially fluffy food eaten quickly and then water added through drinking MAY cause torsions.

[Kfamr]

I personally would not feed Science Diet, even if the vet perscribed it (there are other foods that are specifically made for health problems with better ingredients) However, that's just me.

It's certainly not a horrible food, but there are better out there that would be more worth the money.

[DrKym]

Michelle? Remeber how awful it was when I lost Emmy to bloat? they still swear it was because of the kibble.

If the handler had kept her on RAW she never would have been lost :(

[JenBKR]

Oh goody, let's turn this into another kibble vs. raw debate :rolleyes:

[DrKym]

Oh goody, let's turn this into another kibble vs. raw debate :rolleyes:
Oh no not at all! She was not used to it is all, wolfed her food an water, I have NO issues with ppl that feed kibble there are some wonderful ones out there.

Simply that this dog never had it, and it was tragic for her, please don't misinterpret it as a slam against kibble! I prefer RAW, but I know there are many very good diets available also!

[borzoimom]

Michelle? Remeber how awful it was when I lost Emmy to bloat? they still swear it was because of the kibble.

If the handler had kept her on RAW she never would have been lost :(
Yes I do- and my girl too.. Never again- PURE PAIN!

[mike001]

I don't know about extruded foods for dogs, but I did lose a foal becase of extruded horse feed.

[JenBKR]

Oh no not at all! She was not used to it is all, wolfed her food an water, I have NO issues with ppl that feed kibble there are some wonderful ones out there.

Simply that this dog never had it, and it was tragic for her, please don't misinterpret it as a slam against kibble! I prefer RAW, but I know there are many very good diets available also!

Ok thank you for verifying that - there have been so many debates over the whole raw vs. kibble...just didn't want another one ;)

[borzoimom]

Oh no not at all! She was not used to it is all, wolfed her food an water, I have NO issues with ppl that feed kibble there are some wonderful ones out there.

Simply that this dog never had it, and it was tragic for her, please don't misinterpret it as a slam against kibble! I prefer RAW, but I know there are many very good diets available also!
ANOTHER REASON I am afraid to send Zubin out when Galina does her litter.. He has been fed raw his whole life.. Even the one day they dont out of months- its like half feeding and GROUND AND SOAKED!
If I had to feed kibble for any length of time, it would be bil jac- its instant mush, not extruded with organ. ( but I dont have that problem...)

[caseysmom]

I am still waiting to hear what is so bad about colgate? They have been making dog for since 1940.

[bckrazy]

however the fact is- only the "heart"/pulp of corn can be digested even finely ground still turns into a filler that is passed in the stool.

Bil-Jac contains corn. As the 2nd/3rd ingredient, in all formulas. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Honestly, I see it this way... everyone here would like to do the best possible for the dogs with the funds they have, right? Well IMHO you can really do much better than Science Diet with the same funds. I'm not saying SD is the worst food evuhhh, but it is HIGHLY over-rated, if you get down to really considering quality.

Natural Balance is $1/lb (about $35 for 35 lbs); Canidae is $1/lb ($40 for 40 lbs); Eagle Pack Holistic is a little over $1/lb ($37 for 33 lbs); Wysong is a little over $1/lb ($34 for 33 lbs); Solid Gold is a little over $1/lb ($37 for 33 lbs); Chicken Soup FTDLS is less than $1/lb ($30 for 35 lbs)

Clearly, there are many better options with BETTER ingredients. Of course we can't say what is right for your dogs, but I definitely encourage you to try other kibbles, because it is worth it!

[borzoimom]

Bil Jac http://www.biljac.com/store/dogmain.asp it also explains why not extrusion food.
I have extensive information over 20 years in the contents of dog foods..

[pitc9]

I am still waiting to hear what is so bad about colgate? They have been making dog for since 1940.

I was waiting too so I had to go back and look again and found someone that answered it.


LOL...I don't think it has anything to do with there being anything wrong with colgate but colgate is a toothpaste company and we are talking dogfood. Usually when you have a company branching off in a hundred different direction that means the quality of the porduct drops. JMO

But this responce is not from the person that the question was directed to.

[Lady's Human]

Colgate is just like any other major company.

They branch off into other areas to expand their profits and stability. They don't just decide, "Hey, let's make XYZ", they normally buy another company that is already making it, and change the corporate structure to suit their internal goals (unless it is a truly new and unique product).

They are no different than any other conglomerate, and lowering quality standards would be ridiculous, as it would destroy the customer base of the company they acquired.

[DrKym]

I would tend to agree there LH, I do know several petfoods are owned by Nestle, and IMO that is a brand name I do trust, I don't know how good bad or indifferent the food is that they produce as I have no personal experience with it at all.

I would expect it to live up to my preconcieved expectation of their parent company (Nestle)though, which I find very good. :)

[Lady's Human]

BTW, as far as extrusion goes?

I knew what it was, just waiting to hear an answer.......


It is very simply taking a material and forming it through a die. there are literally thousands of food products made this way. There is nothing inherently wrong with it.

[borzoimom]

I would tend to agree there LH, I do know several petfoods are owned by Nestle, and IMO that is a brand name I do trust, I don't know how good bad or indifferent the food is that they produce as I have no personal experience with it at all.

I would expect it to live up to my preconcieved expectation of their parent company (Nestle)though, which I find very good. :)
At least Nestle is more food driven company than colagate.. ;)

[lizbud]

BTW, as far as extrusion goes?

I knew what it was, just waiting to hear an answer.......


It is very simply taking a material and forming it through a die. there are literally thousands of food products made this way. There is nothing inherently wrong with it.


I'm glad you answered that LH, as I was going to use another example
to explain the same process. It's just food product mixed in a machine
and push into a recognized form & packaged for sale. Many,many human
foods are made this way.

[Love That Collie]

As someone with a breed that is very prone to bloat I wouldn't feed Science Diet as their meal(s), maybe a dog biscuit now and again though. I had a 5lbs bag given to me by the vet and when it was soaked it expanded terribly. I don't get that with Canidae. I don't know but I'm guessing that the price variances for a 40lb bag of SD is WIDELY different in different states because there's no way anyone here could buy a 40lbs bag of SD for anywhere near $27.00 or $28.00.

However, I do keep cans of SD i/d on hand and use it periodically because of Chloe's condiiton.

[borzoimom]

As someone with a breed that is very prone to bloat I wouldn't feed Science Diet as their meal(s), maybe a dog biscuit now and again though. I had a 5lbs bag given to me by the vet and when it was soaked it expanded terribly. I don't get that with Canidae. I don't know but I'm guessing that the price variances for a 40lb bag of SD is WIDELY different in different states because there's no way anyone here could buy a 40lbs bag of SD for anywhere near $27.00 or $28.00.

However, I do keep cans of SD i/d on hand and use it periodically because of Chloe's condiiton.
Exactly my point on swelling from extruded foods!

[Lady's Human]

It doesn't matter whether the food is extruded, chipped, ground, or molded. If it is made from ingredients that are going to swell, it swells. The swelling has more to do with the ingredients than the process.

Copper pipe is extruded. Does that mean I have to worry about the pipes in my house swelling?

[lizbud]

Hummm, I've never met the dog who would eat a whole 5lb bag at one
meal.Of course it expands some with water. A loaf of bread would change
shape if you poor water on it.

[borzoimom]

Hummm, I've never met the dog who would eat a whole 5lb bag at one
meal.Of course it expands some with water. A loaf of bread would change
shape if you poor water on it.
Lizbud- you take 2 cups of some food, add warm water ( temp of the gut) and it will come up to 4 cups.. THAT'S the problem.. Unless its ground up before feeding- that is what happens.
As someone that has lost a dog to bloat- missed by the vet discounted as gastric upset- IT HAPPENS SOOOOOO FAST.. And the pain is intense- its a horrid way to die!

[Love That Collie]

*sigh*.....I didn't think I would have had to have stated that I soaked "some" of the food and not the WHOLE 5lbs bag and I also didn't say that my dog ate a whole 5lbs bag of it either.

So for clarification: I soaked about a 1/2 cup it nearly doubled as opposed to another dry kibble that did NOT expand in near a doubled capacity. When I said I "soaked it", I didn't think that I'd really have to clarify that by "it" I meant the SD. And I'm very well aware that bread expands, I wasn't soaking bread. And I'm also well aware that most foods expand when water is added, my point was, this food expanded much more than the one I'm using.

Copper is extruded.......not the pipe.

[Lady's Human]

Copper is extracted from ore. Copper pipe is extruded.

[Cincy'sMom]

I feed Cincy a mix of Science Deit and Nutro Natural Choice. It was not my first choice, but the vet recommended the Sceince Diet when she was having bladder/kidney issues. Once those were taken care of, I added the Nutro and also mix in some pumpkin and raw meat. We tried Premium Kibbles, LIke Innova, and they were too rich for her. She gained weight and had the crystal issues. This is what works for her.

Sadie and Spot have been on Sensible Choice, but I have heard that is being discontinued, so we are searching. Right now they are trying Eagle Pack Holistic. They also get pumpkin and rawmeat mixed in.

[Love That Collie]

No, pipe is not EXTRUDED, the copper is.......AFTER it's EXTRACTED from the ore......

[borzoimom]

I feed Cincy a mix of Science Deit and Nutro Natural Choice. It was not my first choice, but the vet recommended the Sceince Diet when she was having bladder/kidney issues. Once those were taken care of, I added the Nutro and also mix in some pumpkin and raw meat. We tried Premium Kibbles, LIke Innova, and they were too rich for her. She gained weight and had the crystal issues. This is what works for her.

Sadie and Spot have been on Sensible Choice, but I have heard that is being discontinued, so we are searching. Right now they are trying Eagle Pack Holistic. They also get pumpkin and rawmeat mixed in.
Eagle pack Holistic is a very good food! And I liked the pumpkin and rawmeat idea-.. ( no bones.. lol... ) GOOD ONE THERE!

[Lady's Human]

The process in which copper pipe is made is extrusion.

Again, being that dog food which is made through extrusion swells, does that mean the copper piped in my house are going to swell?

[borzoimom]

As far as eating 5 pounds at one time- I left out a 10 bag of chicken out once. It was on the counter to thaw- .. I went to take a nap- and you guessed it- Zubin and galina pulled it down off the counter. Of the 10 pounds, those two consumed 8 of the 10 pounds in raw half frozen chicken! :eek: From that time forward- the chicken goes in the sink- alias although at counter height- they have to reach into the sink to get it. Thank God they didnt eat the plastic. Now if I take a nap or otherwise out of the room for long periods- they are put in their dog room or with me..

[cyber-sibes]

We tried Premium Kibbles, LIke Innova, and they were too rich for her. She gained weight and had the crystal issues.That's interesting, I didn't know that kibble could be too rich. Maybe that's why SD is well accepted by my two - huskies have very sensitive stomachs. I usually add fish & meat to their winter diet, but I notice their output is pretty loose when I do. When they have just SD, it seems to be more stable. I did get samples of Canidae, and they seemed to like that quite a bit too - I mixed it into their SD. Poor Cincy, crystals are no fun! She's better now?

[borzoimom]

Try bil jac- its 98 percent digestable ... And balenced minerals. I actually learned about Bil Jac from two sources- a top husky breeder and of course- the Monks of New Skete.

[lizbud]

The process in which copper pipe is made is extrusion.

Again, being that dog food which is made through extrusion swells, does that mean the copper piped in my house are going to swell?


They are probably swelling as we speak. :D

[borzoimom]

They are probably swelling as we speak. :D
Its not funny... OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE NEVER HAD a dog DIE of bloat.. And as far as lady human- I cant see his posts as they are blocked on ignore.. This is the only way I can see them..
How DARE you make fun of a terrible situation KILLING DOGS across the us-- I find your joke and agreement horrid!!!! :mad:

[dogzr#1]

I know jack squat when it comes to dog food, but I've heard that Science Diet isn't the best food out there. Of course it is better than Alpo or Kibbles N Bits, but there are far better foods out there. On the other hand, some dogs may do terrific on it and look healthy and everything. If that is the case then I say stick with it.

I am lucky and haven't lost a dog to bloat. *knocks on wood* I know how it must feel and everything. However, I didn't see that comment rude in the least. please Michelle, calm down a bit. I don't think she meant any harm in saying that and she certainly wasn't trying to sound mean.

[Lady's Human]

It wasn't a joke. It was merely an extension of an illogical train of thought.

Extruded food=food that swells, regardless of ingredients. As ingredients evidently don't matter, therefore it must be the extrusion process that makes the food swell.

Pipe is formed by the same process. Following the logic that ANY food+ extrusion=swelling food, then extrusion+ copper = swelling pipes.

Makes the "all extruded food is bad" argument seems a little nonsensical, dontcha think?

[Karen]

"Bloat" is not caused by swelling of the food the dog ate. It is caused by a twist in the dog's stomach, so that the digestive tract can no longer work. Whether or not a food is formed by extrusion it has nothing to do with anything. No one is joking about dogs dying from bloat.


The technical name for bloat is "Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus" ("GDV"). Bloating of the stomach is often related to swallowed air (although food and fluid can also be present). It usually happens when there's an abnormal accumulation of air, fluid, and/or foam in the stomach ("gastric dilatation"). Stress can be a significant contributing factor also. Bloat can occur with or without "volvulus" (twisting). As the stomach swells, it may rotate 90° to 360°, twisting between its fixed attachments at the esophagus (food tube) and at the duodenum (the upper intestine). The twisting stomach traps air, food, and water in the stomach. The bloated stomach obstructs veins in the abdomen, leading to low blood pressure, shock, and damage to internal organs. The combined effect can quickly kill a dog.

[Kfamr]

-sigh- Must there be drama EVERYNIGHT??? :confused:

[dogzr#1]

-sigh- Must there be drama EVERYNIGHT??? :confused:


This place is starting to look like a high school. :p

[.sarah]

This place is starting to look like a high school. :p
No kidding!

[areias]

I have seen a dog die from bloat overnight in the kennel I worked at...it was on Bil-Jac, yes...we're not sure what caused it, maybe from stress from thunderstorms that night, but it wasn't from the dog food. The dog only ate in the mornings.

To answer your question PJs Mom...Science Diet is better than than your "grocery store" foods, but not a "premium" pet food. While it is an OK food, you might be able to find something better for the same price or cheaper. :) However, if you choose to feed it, it's not going to harm your dogs. I hope that answers your questions.

[critter crazy]

"Bloat" is not caused by swelling of the food the dog ate. It is caused by a twist in the dog's stomach, so that the digestive tract can no longer work. Whether or not a food is formed by extrusion it has nothing to do with anything. No one is joking about dogs dying from bloat.
awsome post Karen!! I didnt even know that!

[cyber-sibes]

-sigh- Must there be drama EVERYNIGHT??? :confused:
This place is starting to look like a high school. :p
Have you ever checked out the "Ignore List" on your User CP? It's a handy, "Serenity Now!" option!

Karen, thanks for the info. I've heard it happens when dogs wolf their food down too quickly, especiially if they have just been very active. It makes sense - they would be swallowing a lot of air. I make sure I dont feed mine until I know they are not overheated.

In the long haul, as long as you feed your dogs, you are waaayy ahead of those people you see on Animal planet's dog-cop shows.

[NicoleLJ]

I just thought this might help anyone interested in learning about the different foods and what is in them and so forth. This site helped me to pick the food my dogs are on. It lists the ingredients of each along with other things and tehn gives a star rating. The higher the start rating the better teh food.

Mine are eating Innova Large Breed for 3 months now and are doing great. I used to feed them Purina Pro Plan. They did great on that too. I only switched because it was hard to get. That is ht eonly reason I switched. But when I did switched this site helped me a great deal in finding a great food:

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

Just thought it might interest someone.
Nicole

[Ceph]

Is bloat anything like colic in horses out of mild curiosity? I know horses have a slighly more convoluted system...but they sort of sound similiar.

[Kfamr]

Have you ever checked out the "Ignore List" on your User CP? It's a handy, "Serenity Now!" option!



Yep - it certainly is handy, thanks for pointing that out, PAT! However, it doesn't excuse the constant drama.

[Ceph]

I like ignore :D ...I just tested it out...it works...it really works!

[Daisy and Delilah]

Its not funny... OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE NEVER HAD a dog DIE of bloat.. And as far as lady human- I cant see his posts as they are blocked on ignore.. This is the only way I can see them..
How DARE you make fun of a terrible situation KILLING DOGS across the us-- I find your joke and agreement horrid!!!! :mad:

Holy Cow!! Who is making fun of a dog dieing from bloat? Swelling pipes have nothing to do with any animals with bloat or anything else referring to animals.

Excuse me bzm; how do you know exactly what anyone on this board has gone through? Seriously, you seem to be a bit out of control. Your BP could be sky high from all this stress. Please, calm down.

[borzoimom]

Holy Cow!! Who is making fun of a dog dieing from bloat? Swelling pipes have nothing to do with any animals with bloat or anything else referring to animals.

Excuse me bzm; how do you know exactly what anyone on this board has gone through? Seriously, you seem to be a bit out of control. Your BP could be sky high from all this stress. Please, calm down.
Why reference pipes to a dying dog- take that info to DIY and not a dog forum where people have had their dogs DIE of bloat... Its a sick joke.. and not at all funny. You go through that pain- tell me how you feel afterwards- to bring it up like that out of context that bad is appaling!

[Lady's Human]

Who referenced pipes to a dying dog?

[Cincy'sMom]

Poor Cincy, crystals are no fun! She's better now?

She is. We have not had a single issue since switching her food about 3 years ago and she has lost about 10 pounds as well. She stil has about 5-10 to go, but making good headway!!!

[wolfsoul]

I don't know what all has been said in this thread, but I will post my opinion ( please no bashing, it's what I know/think and I will stick to it). Science Diet is a very low quality feed. I wouldn't feed it if someone paid me -- just my own preference.

This is Science Diet Mature. In bold are the bad or questionable ingredients. One thing that should definatly be pointed out -- where is the meat? Our dogs are primary carnivores -- and there isn't a single bit of meat in this food, only grain and vegetable. They derive the majorty of their protein from soy and corn -- both of which aren't very digestable, and thus do not provide the dog with alot of protein. The majority of people find this to be proper for a senior dog. I disagree, but that is just me.

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Brewers Rice, Soybean Mill Run, Flaxseed, Soybean Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Dried Egg Product, Dried Carrots, Dried Spinach, Dried Grape Pomace, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Citrus Pulp, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Oat Fiber, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, Calcium Carbonate, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, L-Arginine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.


Many of the Science Diet formulas contain ehtoxyquin and BHA/BHT, which are carcinogenic preservatives linked to cancer, epliepsy, stillbirth, disease in puppies, etc. Ethoxyquin is a chemical rubber hardener and powerful insecticide that is illegal in most places of the world. They used to spray it on lawns until they discovered it was causing bad adverse health issues in people. Since it kills things, it's very good at killing bacteria, and thus is added to some Science Diet formulas. Science Diet is also owned by Ralston Purina, a company that is big into animal testing.
Vets do not learn about nutrition in school -- from what I've been told by different vet/vet techs, their nutrition seminar lasts anywhere from a few hours to a few days, and is held by Science Diet respresentatives. They offer vets free dog food and may even help them with college funds if the vet, in return, sells and advocates their food in their clinic. For vets that have already been taught by Science Diet that Science Diet is the best food out there, most will be happy to do such.
And so it is not only the ingredients that bother me, but the entire idea behind it all. Everything these days is a conspiracy unfortunatly.

[PJ's Mom]

Thanks for the info, Jordan. I had no idea! :(

Thank you to everyone who has posted their experience and opinion of SD. I'm really grateful to those of you who didn't try to cram their opnions down my throat. :)

[Catlady711]

They are probably swelling as we speak. :D


Its not funny... OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE NEVER HAD a dog DIE of bloat.. And as far as lady human- I cant see his posts as they are blocked on ignore.. This is the only way I can see them..
How DARE you make fun of a terrible situation KILLING DOGS across the us-- I find your joke and agreement horrid!!!! :mad:



Why reference pipes to a dying dog- take that info to DIY and not a dog forum where people have had their dogs DIE of bloat... Its a sick joke.. and not at all funny.


If someone can't see all the posts that are made it's easy to take things out of context and get bent out of shape. If a person doesn't see all of the information in the posts it's hard to make an appropriate response.

The pipes comment came from comparing the extruding process (which was related to the thread topic) which got into a debate over how pipes were made (a side trip from the topic), then someone made a joke concerning the PIPES not dogs dying of bloat.

I don't believe ANYONE here would be so crass as to make a joke about dogs dying for any reason.


As a side note of my opinion, I've noticed that much of the drama around here lately can be attributed to a few outspoken individuals, which seem to bring out the worst in everyone else.

[pnance]

I have to agree Science Diet isn't my favorite food for many of the reasons posted by wolfsoul. That said I will say I fed my RB terrier Sandy SD for years and he did fine. I switched him to Waltham (now Royal Canin) when he was about 8 and it was mainly because he liked it better. (I found pieces of SD lieing around his bowl, and the Waltham was completely gone!!). I've also fed SD R/D to Bear. I had a nightmare of a time trying to get weight off when I first adopted him so the vet put him on SD R/D. It got the weight off and he didn't have any problems on it. I now feed him Eukanuba senior and my other 3 get Canidae, but that's just a person preference. My opinion. SD is definately not the worst brand nor is it the best. I'd put it somewhere in the middle.

[borzoimom]

I don't know what all has been said in this thread, but I will post my opinion ( please no bashing, it's what I know/think and I will stick to it). Science Diet is a very low quality feed. I wouldn't feed it if someone paid me -- just my own preference.

This is Science Diet Mature. In bold are the bad or questionable ingredients. One thing that should definatly be pointed out -- where is the meat? Our dogs are primary carnivores -- and there isn't a single bit of meat in this food, only grain and vegetable. They derive the majorty of their protein from soy and corn -- both of which aren't very digestable, and thus do not provide the dog with alot of protein. The majority of people find this to be proper for a senior dog. I disagree, but that is just me.


Many of the Science Diet formulas contain ehtoxyquin and BHA/BHT, which are carcinogenic preservatives linked to cancer, epliepsy, stillbirth, disease in puppies, etc. Ethoxyquin is a chemical rubber hardener and powerful insecticide that is illegal in most places of the world. They used to spray it on lawns until they discovered it was causing bad adverse health issues in people. Since it kills things, it's very good at killing bacteria, and thus is added to some Science Diet formulas. Science Diet is also owned by Ralston Purina, a company that is big into animal testing.
Vets do not learn about nutrition in school -- from what I've been told by different vet/vet techs, their nutrition seminar lasts anywhere from a few hours to a few days, and is held by Science Diet respresentatives. They offer vets free dog food and may even help them with college funds if the vet, in return, sells and advocates their food in their clinic. For vets that have already been taught by Science Diet that Science Diet is the best food out there, most will be happy to do such.
And so it is not only the ingredients that bother me, but the entire idea behind it all. Everything these days is a conspiracy unfortunatly.
Very good wolfsoul- well said.. Lets also highlight "flax seed"- this causes gas- and actually so does ( if it had it here) "beet pulp" if the sugar is not removed.. That one will ferment in the intestine..

[elizabethann]

Oy Vay! My sister just sent me an email and asked me if I heard about Science Diet and what I thought about it!

I'm going to show her this thread. :D

[cyber-sibes]

Oy Vay! My sister just sent me an email and asked me if I heard about Science Diet and what I thought about it!

I'm going to show her this thread. :DMaybe you should spare her and just send her the links to the dogfood comparison sites. ;)

[lizbud]

Maybe you should spare her and just send her the links to the dogfood comparison sites. ;)


I agree with that . at least don't send it to a friend. :p Spare your friend
and just share links on independent studies. :D