Puppy rejected by mother, raising by hand, possible surrogate?

[kasper]

I am brand new to this board, and am so glad I found it! I just posted this under Dog Rescue, but wasn't sure if it'd be more appropriate here...

My sisters dog just had puppies yesterday, well, 3 yesterday and 2 more today! She wansn't home when she gave birth yesterday, and the mom isn't taking one of the puppies. The vet said she needed to be bottle fed and kept warm... we've gotten a bunch of supplies to do this. My sister and brother-in-law both work full-time, and since I'm a stay-at-home mom, they asked if I would take the puppy home and try to save it, so that's what I did (I live an hour away so I couldn't be there)...

We've gotten her and are feeding her and keeping her warm with a heating pad. I have two other dogs at home, and am nervous about having them around the newborn. One of the dogs, Roxanne, is a friends dog that I am indefinately dog-sitting for, and have had her since November. She's a pretty tame, well-behaved dog, but I still don't know her well enough...

She gets very excited when she hears the puppy whimper, or when she sees her. She has been spayed, so I'm not sure if that does anything when it comes to "maternal instincts". She seems to want to be close to the puppy, maybe keep her warm? We have let her smell and lick her, but then she looks likes she's getting ready to swat at her, and I'm not sure if she's trying to move the towel to be close, or if she's trying to hurt her...

Okay, so to try and make a long story a little shorter... what should I do? Should I go ahead and let her try to be with the puppy, or keep her as far away as possible? I've read that puppies need to have their mothers, if possible, unfortunatly it's not possible in this situation. I've heard of other dogs becoming surrogates, but I'm so nervous, as the puppy is SO SMALL (5 oz)!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Canis-Lupess]

How do you mean by swatting at her?

Do you mean using her paw? If so, she could be trying to pull the pup towards her and our Mist did that when we were handling her pups for any reason. She'd use her paw to try and get them back. They can be a bit clumsy in how they go about it but thats dogs for you, lol.

Mist would also want to mother the pups of my other dog, Jess. In fact, with Jess's first litter, Mist actually started to produce milk for them and would suckle them. She went mad when she heard them crying and was desperate to be with them. Fortunately, Jess was a little inexperienced that first time and she was glad for Mists help.

Your bitch's maternal instincts may have been triggered by hearing the puppy cry etc...I'm sure she could still feel maternal towards puppies even though she has been spayed.
It's worth a try to see if she'll act as a surrogate mother.

When the puppy is a bit older and started weaning, going back with it's siblings might be a good idea. I hand reared two pups of our Mists from a large litter and they went back with the others after about 3 and a half weeks and did just fine from there on.

See if you can get your bitch to lay down in her bed or whatever and then put the pup in with her and see how she reacts. Stay close so you can pick the pup straight up if things don't go well but, in many cases, bitches do take to small puppies quite well and develop a desire to protect them.

[borzoimom]

There have been numerious studies out at one time, that a crying pup stimulates the milk "let down" sensation in the mother. ..
As far as care for the pup- make sure you wipe the back end with a warm cotton ball to stimulate the pup to go to the bathroom. The licking by the mother is the normal stimulation- and you are doing the same thing.
When is time to put the pup back with the group- the mother should NOT be present- remember- she will not recognize the returning pup as hers. ( she could see that pup as a threat to her pups.)

[applesmom]

As it stands now, since the mother of the puppy has rejected her, the puppy's chances of survival are slim to none. She certainly doesn't need the added risk of having an inexperienced dog lay on her, step on her or accidently harm her in some other way.

The warm fuzzy stories of strange dogs raising orphan puppies are 99 percent just that; stories!

My suggestion would be to concentrate your efforts on the puppy and keep the other dogs well out of reach of the puppy. If it manages to survive the first two weeks, that would be soon enough to allow the other dogs to even get close enough to sniff it.

Good luck with the puppy; it's a challenging task you've taken on!

[borzoimom]

I was trying not to say that applesmom- but you are right-. Usually when the mom rejects a pup, there is a reason.. clef palate to who knows.. Lets pray the pup makes it..

[applesmom]

Canis-Lupis you said; "I hand reared two pups of our Mists from a large litter and they went back with the others after about 3 and a half weeks and did just fine from there on."

Did you actually raise the pups without any contact with their mom or littermates for 3 1/2 weeks? If that's the case, I'm curious about the events that led to such an unusual decision.

Usually in large litters, even if it's necessary to supplement the mother's milk, all of the puppies are left together between feedings so they can be raised in as normal a setting as possible.

[applesmom]

I was trying not to say that applesmom- but you are right-. Usually when the mom rejects a pup, there is a reason.. clef palate to who knows.. Lets pray the pup makes it..

I didn't mean to sound overly negative. Naturally we'll all be pulling for the pup to make it and of course there is always a slight possibility that it will.

If the vet didn't detect any obvious abnormalities it may have gotten chilled and any one with experience knows what the outcome usually is when that happens. :(

[borzoimom]

I didn't mean to sound overly negative. Naturally we'll all be pulling for the pup to make it and of course there is always a slight possibility that it will.

If the vet didn't detect any obvious abnormalities it may have gotten chilled and any one with experience knows what the outcome usually is when that happens. :(
Applesmom= we are here to address the subject at hand- which is to help this poster raise a pup denied by the mother...

[applesmom]

Applesmom= we are here to address the subject at hand- which is to help this poster raise a pup denied by the mother...

Okay! In that case I can't stress strongly enough again that the other dogs be kept away from the pup as it continues it's struggle for life. Their presence isn't likely to help and could actually harm the pup.

With dogs living together in a family long before the puppies were born it might be an altogether different story.

[borzoimom]

Okay! In that case I can't stress strongly enough again that the other dogs be kept away from the pup as it continues it's struggle for life. Their presence isn't likely to help and could actually harm the pup.

With dogs living together in a family long before the puppies were born it might be an altogether different story.
I agree- this pup should NOT go back to the others to socialize until they can make sure the mother is not going to be around- for the safety of the pup...

[DrKym]

This pup is over an hour away from the mother and sibs as her post stated

The question she asked was did any of us think it was safe to allow her other dog to possibly surragate as warmth factor. She has already seperated it, and is bottle feeding it, her female spayed bitch seems to have taken an interest in it. and while it is possible that the bitch could surrogate it, I would wait until it was a few weeks old before allowing that, there is no denying that having a same specie surrogate will help the pup in the long run. The question at hand is if she should try it now.

I would say from my own experience no, I have had luck with moms that litters were close in birth dates surrogating, and have had a few dogs that were excellent babysitters, and nannies for other specie, but as a rule they all had previous litter experience.

[applesmom]

I agree- this pup should NOT go back to the others to socialize until they can make sure the mother is not going to be around- for the safety of the pup...


That's not what I said. The dogs in the foster home shouldn't be allowed near the weakened puppy.

Returning the pup to the litter, if it should survive, should be done by re-introducing it to the mother first and away from the puppies. If the mother won't accept it then the pup would have to remain isolated from the litter.

There's also the possibility that the pup as it gets older would be unable to be returned to the litter, even if the mother accepts it. Since the owners both work, there wouldn't be constant supervision and the other puppies could get too rough with it. That would depend on the age of course.

If the pup shows signs of thriving in the next few day's it would be best to try to return her to the mom and the litter before the eyes and ears open. That would give her a far better shot at a normal puppyhood!

[applesmom]

This pup is over an hour away from the mother and sibs as her post stated

The question she asked was did any of us think it was safe to allow her other dog to possibly surragate as warmth factor. She has already seperated it, and is bottle feeding it, her female spayed bitch seems to have taken an interest in it. and while it is possible that the bitch could surrogate it, I would wait until it was a few weeks old before allowing that, there is no denying that having a same specie surrogate will help the pup in the long run. The question at hand is if she should try it now.

I would say from my own experience no, I have had luck with moms that litters were close in birth dates surrogating, and have had a few dogs that were excellent babysitters, and nannies for other specie, but as a rule they all had previous litter experience.

Well put! I agree!

[borzoimom]

That's not what I said. The dogs in the foster home shouldn't be allowed near the weakened puppy.

Returning the pup to the litter, if it should survive, should be done by re-introducing it to the mother first and away from the puppies. If the mother won't accept it then the pup would have to remain isolated from the litter.

There's also the possibility that the pup as it gets older would be unable to be returned to the litter, even if the mother accepts it. Since the owners both work, there wouldn't be constant supervision and the other puppies could get too rough with it. That would depend on the age of course.

If the pup shows signs of thriving in the next few day's it would be best to try to return her to the mom and the litter before the eyes and ears open. That would give her a far better shot at a normal puppyhood!
WRONG- if you return this pup to the mother- the mother will not recognize the pup as hers, in protection of her own- possibly get aggressive.
The best way to do this is to wait until until the pup is weaned, the others are weaned- then add- IF AND ONLY IF there is no sign of disease from the returned pup into the the litter..

[Canis-Lupess]

Applesmom.

Right, here goes. I was only 15 at the time and everyone thought the pup was going to die. She was so tiny and weak. I took her and started feeding her with lactol, a powder milk make especially for pups and kittens etc...
My dad brought another one to me, a bit bigger than her but still being pushed around too much by the others. I suppose they made good canine company for each other. When we tried to put the little bitch back with the litter, she'd go downhill fast so I had to take her back and carry on hand rearing her and she'd perk up again within an hour. She was just unable to feed at all and, even though Mist would have allowed her to feed, the other pups just pushed her out of the way and she weakened fast.
Still, she survived and they were both eating solid food before we just put them back with the others. I would have been happy to keep them with me, it was my dad who said about putting them back. I suppose because they only had my scent on them which Mist knew and because Mist was so maternal anyway that she took them back as her own without problems and the other litter mates seemed fine with them also. These two pups always remembered me though, especially the little dog, he became quite attached to me and would cry if other people held him but then quieten down when I took him back although he was comfortable with mum and siblings still if I wasn't there. It was quite heart wrenching when they were sold.

I couldn't just suppliment them whilst leaving them with Mist and the other pups because I didn't live with my dad and thats where Mist and the pups were at that time. There was nobody else willing or able to take them in and hand rear them. My dad would normally let such pups just die but I couldn't do that.

I bet Mist would have taken any other dogs pups as her own to tell you the truth...just like she always tried to take Jess's as her own, lol.

When she was a pup, she used to dig holes in the garden and put my dads plant pots in them, haha. I read in one of my dog behaviour books about another dog doing the exact same thing and it turned out she was doing it as a maternal thing, digging a den and treating the plant pots as puppies, haha. The behaviourist said that she would likely be a very good mother if she was ever bred from...our Mist was.

I don't think they all need previous litter experience to foster a baby animal though. For example, in our daily paper not long back, there was a female cat, spayed, who acted as surrogate to a baby orphaned weasel. She hadn't had kittens before but her owner found that she took to the weasel, cleaned it, curled up with it and kept it warm etc...There were photos of her with it.
There was even an article posted even more recently where a young female leopard tried to mother a baby baboon. She was filmed cleaning it and picking it up like a cub and taken up into the tree where it was safe and there were photos of her doing it in the paper. Unfortunately, without it's real mum and her milk, it weakened and died and the young leopard finally left it after so long. She wasn't much more than a cub herself, obviously had never had cubs of her own. She just didn't have the means to rear a baby baboon. :(

I'm sure most animals would not act in this way but you always get your one in a millions, lol.

[applesmom]

I couldn't just suppliment them whilst leaving them with Mist and the other pups because I didn't live with my dad and thats where Mist and the pups were at that time.

Thanks Canus-Lupus, the reason for keeping them seperated makes perfect sense now. :)

[applesmom]

WRONG- if you return this pup to the mother- the mother will not recognize the pup as hers, in protection of her own- possibly get aggressive.
The best way to do this is to wait until until the pup is weaned, the others are weaned- then add- IF AND ONLY IF there is no sign of disease from the returned pup into the the litter..

It would depend on the circumstances and the bitch. In a case like this we can't assume the bitch will reject the puppy. Many wouldn't. It would be best for a puppy that young to at least give it a chance to rejoin the litter. I sure would.

[applesmom]

Any updates? How is the puppy doing?

[Reachoutrescue]

After reading this thread, I am so heart broken for this puppy. I sure hope he makes it. I would not put that pup back with the litter....too much risk with the momma dog. Just keep her warm, fed, and stimulate bowels, that is all you can do right now for her. Good luck and please keep us posted.