Screaming 3 year old gets parents free airline tickets!

[Catlady711]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/23/ap/national/mainD8MR41C02.shtml

ORLANDO, Fla., Jan. 23, 2007
By JIM ELLIS Associated Press Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(AP) Flight attendants often deal with obnoxious passengers who won't listen to instructions by kicking them off the plane. But a Massachusetts couple think AirTran Airways went overboard by treating their crying 3-year-old daughter in much the same way.

Julie and Gerry Kulesza and daughter Elly were removed from the flight when the girl refused to take her seat before takeoff, airline officials said Tuesday. But her parents said they just needed a little more time to calm her down.

The Kuleszas planned to fly home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers after a four-day visit with the girl's paternal grandparents. She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat" during boarding, AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said.

AirTran officials say they were only following Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seatbelt upon takeoff.

"The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family," Graham-Weaver said.

But Julie Kulesza said: "We weren't giving an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything."

"Elly was sitting in front of our seat crying," she said in a phone interview. "The attendant motioned to a seat and asked if we purchased it for her."

They had paid for the seat. Gerry Kulesza said another attendant then approached the family and told him: "You need to get her in control and in her seat."

The couple told the attendants they were trying. Julie Kulesza said she asked the attendants if Elly could sit on her lap, but they said no.

The family flew home the next day.

The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and offered them three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

But that's too little, too late for the Kuleszas. The father said they would never fly AirTran again.


You've GOT to be kidding me...

1) Do these parents simply not care that 112 other people had to endure listening to this child's tantrum and have their own flight delayed?

2) How heavy can a 3 year old possibly be that they could not simply pick her up and PUT her in her seat??

3) And to top it all off the airline whimps out after booting the family off and turns around to not only refund their ticket money (which isn't so bad) BUT goes ahead and gives the family THREE FREE roundtrip airfare tickets!!!???!!?? :mad: :mad:

So what is this telling people? That if you don't have control over your toddlers you get rewarded with free tickets???

[Catty1]

Hey, everyone fly Tran Air! That screaming toddler won't be on there any more!!! :p

[CathyBogart]

This is why I don't travel much. People are so entitlement-minded they think their little pweshus angel should be the most important thing. I am absolutely disgusted by the airline's complete turnaround from responsible behavior to pandering to whiny parents.

Just reinforcing the attitude that bratleigh should be the center of everyone's world.

[DrKym]

leave child with maternal grandparents ,fly to see other half.......or better yet have gramma and grampa fly....wait oh wait?

Teach your child respect and manners. Put child in seat tell child she/he will pay for the rest of its life with chores. but get into seat now or mommy and daddy will .........

oops sorry not PC , however since I have never raised a hand to my kids and for some reason ppl meet kids my kids that dont exist in this house.. :rolleyes: ( wow they are so sweet, helpful , respectful, tidy etc) uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok. Looks into said childs room that looks like an atom bomb hit it and says for the 12th time do your chores or I will make you pay for college.......

This whole thing is riduculous. In a sense this plane was hijacked by a 3 yr olds tantrum and the parents that were unwilling to set limits.
Think about this for one moment..child flew out there no issues...return flight? had issues, at that point you set your foot down lean over if you feel you must hold her/him and tell child quietly to stop.

Then the rest of us that do fly endure flight with screaming toddler, making fun of you behind your back in comedy houses all over US.

[dukedogsmom]

Here's yet another reason why I just love Air Tran! I am so glad someone finally took a stand on this. As someone on a talk show pointed out yesterday morning: The only mistake the airline made was offering them free tickets. I'm sure Air Tran was delighted when the fambly said they'd never fly Air Tran again. Had I been there, I'd have given a standing ovation. I fly out of Tampa to lessen the chances of these type things happening.

[Cataholic]

Screaming toddlers are no fun. I have one, at times. I would say that forcing a 3 year old into a seat isn't really all that 'easy'. I have tried forcing a 2 year old into his carseat on occasion, and found it much easier to let him calm down. Of course, there aren't 112 passengers in my car. Which is a good thing, as I have a Honda Civic. :)

Things like this are one of the reasons I don't go out much. You just can't "count" on a toddler to behave. We did fly in July, at 22 months, and he was a dream on the way out, but, spent alot of time kicking the seat ahead of him on the way home. Thankfully, it was a short flight.

[borzoimom]

Hey, everyone fly Tran Air! That screaming toddler won't be on there any more!!! :p
Amen!!! lol.. I wonder if this was the same kid on our last flight .. ( yes I am kidding..) Lets be serious here people- if you can not hold a 35 pound child in a car accident- how do you think can can hold a child in a airplane??? The attendants are responsible for all rules on the plane.. Jeez.. lol.

[sirrahbed]

I mostly stayed home when I had toddlers - for this very reason. There is just no good way to deal with a screaming toddler. I am also wondering why the parents could not have just forced her into the seat though.

I think offering the free tickets is what bothers me.

[Blue_Frog]

I used to fly a lot for work, and would have appreciated the staff removing a few people from the plane before takeoff (read: the really really stinky guy next to me, the toddler that cried from the waiting room straight through for the entire red eye flight from LA to Toronto, the toddler that screamed from the waiting area right through the entire flight from Toronto to Newark, etc.) --

I'm glad to hear that they removed this family though, since even a 15 min. lateness can throw you off and add to your stress levels for catching a connecting flight - that and the fact that they were inconveniencing the other 112 people.

On the other hand, I do have sympathy for people whos kids just won't calm down - its one thing if you're in your car or at the mall and can go home, or take the time to calm down the kid, but entirely another in a forced public venue like a flight. So I think that the airline did right by reimbursing them the flight $, and they did fly home the next day. Like most of the other posts, the only thing thats annoying was the fact they were given free flight passes.

No one offered ME free flight passes when i had to wait on the tarmac on Contenental for 13 HOURS for a flight from Toronto to Newark (about 1.15 hrs). *grumble grumble stupid airline* ...

[Cataholic]

Lets be serious here people- if you can not hold a 35 pound child in a car accident- how do you think can can hold a child in a airplane???


Well, whether you are holding a child or not, on a plane, chances are good it isn't going to make one bit of difference. Most people do not survive a plane crash, belted in, or not.

:(

[finn's mom]

I'm also only bothered by the fact that they gave them free passes. Sissies.

[wolflady]

This is why I don't travel much. People are so entitlement-minded they think their little pweshus angel should be the most important thing. I am absolutely disgusted by the airline's complete turnaround from responsible behavior to pandering to whiny parents.

Just reinforcing the attitude that bratleigh should be the center of everyone's world.

I agree!

I think the airline did the right thing by kicking the family off, but then whimped out with the freebie tickets. They already refunded the flight cost, that should have been enough. My parents rarely went anywhere when my sisters and I were young simpley because little kids can be unpredictable. However, that said, my parents always had good control over us, and I would never have dreamed of behaving like some of the kids do today when I was little. My parents would not stand for it.

*sigh*

When/if I ever have kids, I will avoid unnecessary travelling (by plane) simply because I don't want to be that annoying person with the screaming brat. It is disruptive to the entire plane when children are not well-mannered.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Well, whether you are holding a child or not, on a plane, chances are good it isn't going to make one bit of difference. Most people do not survive a plane crash, belted in, or not.

:(
They may not survive a plane crash, but sometimes turbulence can send a person flying. I little toddler would be ok in their seats with their seatbelt fastened, but I don't think they would be very safe in someone's lap in that case.


The airline gave them 15 minutes to get the kid in his/her seat. They should have been given a refund but I don't think they deserved free tickets anywhere on top of that.

[cassiesmom]

Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seatbelt upon takeoff.

I wonder why all children (including those two and younger) are not required to have their own seat?

[catlover4ever]

I was a flight attendant for 5 years with a small regional airline, and I can see it from both sides.

I can understand the frustration of the family, who have a crying, inconsolable child on their hands, but I also see it from a F/A safety standpoint. If the child is that problematic on the ground, how is the child going to be once they get in the air at 30,000 feet.

I always tried to settle my families in, tell them what was expected (no walking up and down the center isle, child must be belted in when the seatbelt sign was on, etc).

AirTran gave the family 15 minutes to get settled in.....more than enough timeto settle the child in.....and I don't think they should have received free tickets.

[Prairie Purrs]

If the flight was delayed 15 minutes, they may have had more than 15 minutes to get the kid in the seat, given that airlines allow parents with small children to board first. So it doesn't sound like the parents were making that much of an effort.

If parents want to conduct a Middle East-level negotiation whenever they need to coax their child into a car seat in the family vehicle, fine. But they certainly have no right to hold up a commercial flight when their parenting skills prove ineffective.

[Randi]

I'm glad to hear that they removed this family though, since even a 15 min. lateness can throw you off and add to your stress levels for catching a connecting flight - that and the fact that they were inconveniencing the other 112 people.

On the other hand, I do have sympathy for people whos kids just won't calm down - its one thing if you're in your car or at the mall and can go home, or take the time to calm down the kid, but entirely another in a forced public venue like a flight. So I think that the airline did right by reimbursing them the flight $, and they did fly home the next day. Like most of the other posts, the only thing thats annoying was the fact they were given free flight passes.
I totally agree with this!!

[lizbud]

If the flight was delayed 15 minutes, they may have had more than 15 minutes to get the kid in the seat, given that airlines allow parents with small children to board first. So it doesn't sound like the parents were making that much of an effort.

If parents want to conduct a Middle East-level negotiation whenever they need to coax their child into a car seat in the family vehicle, fine. But they certainly have no right to hold up a commercial flight when their parenting skills prove ineffective.


I do also. I have flown with a toddler before & I know what it's like. Did
you see the interview with the mother?

[Catlady711]

Did you see the interview with the mother?

No I didn't. But from what I read on other columns about her comments, sounded like she was being about as whiney as the toddler.

[RICHARD]

The mother was an AH that did all the talking while daddy stood off to the side and smiled in the interview.

They should have tossed the kid in the overhead bin and made the mom go with the luggage.

NExct time they should go to AVIS-two days driving with that little twerp will teach them.

[Cataholic]

The irony of letting parents with small children board first is lost on people that don't have children. The very LAST thing someone with a toddler wants is 'extra' time for their child to be seated. Toddlers don't sit well. They don't stand well, they don't stand still, etc. They are toddlers, not mini-adults. Most of us with children can roll eyes at what these parents were up against, but, most of us have also been there, too. I actually researched flights for what would best fit my chid's nap schedule, trying to consider the other passengers on the plane. As mentioned above, I scored on the flight out. Not on the flight back. He he he...living with children, just part of the joy of parenting.


When I flew in July, with Jonah at 22 months, I boarded the plane early. I needed plenty of time to figure out how to attach the car seat to the plane seat. However, my sister and Jonah boarded nearly last. You see, post 9-11, I wasn't allowed to board, fix up the car seat, and de-plane to wait with my child.

[Prairie Purrs]

I made the point about boarding early to suggest that "more time" wasn't going to solve this particular problem--unless perhaps the parents expected the plane to remain on the ground until the child's regular naptime rolled around.

The bottom line is that airlines reserve the right to boot anyone off an airplane who is disrupting orderly operations. Sometimes they take it too far, but in this instance they were correct to remove the parents and child. And the parents were entirely out of line to think that they had any right to hold up the flight to accomodate their out-of-control child.

[mike001]

I think the airline made a mistake by not removing them and ignoring them. This is the kind of kid that I could never tolerate. Amazing how kids today seem to just rule the parents. This is like paying for a night out at a restaurant and having a spoiled brat seated next to you or near you. I have gotten up and told the parents to please be gracious enough to remove the brat so we could enjoy our meal only to be told off in no uncertain terms.

[CathyBogart]

I have gotten up and told the parents to please be gracious enough to remove the brat so we could enjoy our meal only to be told off in no uncertain terms.

That has happened to me too. I'm not so polite in movie theatres. :)

[Luvin Labs]

I applaud the airline for kicking them off, though I do think they should never have given them free business class tickets for a future flight!

From what I've read, the brat was sitting in a seat in front of them. Why wasn't the brat put beside one of them and the other half sit in the other seat alone??!??

And that interview. All I noticed was the brat crawling all over her mother with NO stern warnings to sit her butt down. If the kid were very well behaved during the interview I would not be as pissed at the parents for not parenting their child properly. They had ample time to get her settled on the plane.

[Argranade]

So if every child acts like that they should all get a free ride .. :rolleyes:

Well the fact that they got in free does not realy afect my life so I geuss I should not realy care lol.

[Lady's Human]

So does this mean we can fly to FLA with the kids, get on the plane with a non-napping 2 1/2 y/o and get free tickets?

Damn, and to think all this time I was doing the wrong thing by trying to do the right thing and be a responsible parent.

[Logan]

I had a 3 year old, once upon a time. She threw one, unforgettable fit, at 3 years old, and thankfully not on an airplane, but in a restaurant and I thought I would die before I finally got her out of there. That fiesty girl had a sip of something with caffeine and it set her off and she wrapped her legs around the high chair and I almost took her out of the restaurant in the chair!

If I had been those parents, I would have been so relieved that I got off of the plane. I could not have stood the embarrasement of an irrational child.

My "baby", who threw that fit, at 3 years old, will turn 16 years old on Monday. She throws different kinds of fits these days, and rarely, too, thank goodness. She and I don't get mad at each other, we just get frustrated sometime! LOL!!!

Logan

[CathyBogart]

Logan: Once, when my sister was about four, my mom took us out riding our bikes. At one point my sister decided to stop her bike in the middle of the street!! As the light changed, all the drivers were glaring at my mom who grabbed my sister's bike and hauled her kicking and screaming out of the street. That was the end of that adventure. -_-

[RICHARD]

My mom had six of us little AH.s..

After KNOWING what was in store for us when we were out of the public eye, it only took a glance from her to know that IF WE DIDN'T behave, the only way out of it was to have the booming voice of god tell her not to strike us.

And lo, we returneth to normal children, withoutest any attitude.

------------------

I love to watch kids tossing a tantrum look a parent right in the eye (After the parent threatens the "time out") with the EFF YOU, YOUR WORDS DON'T CARRY ANY WEIGHT look..

Makes me want to get an autograph before I see them on the news for some heinous crime they commit when they get older.

[moosmom]

The mother was an AH that did all the talking while daddy stood off to the side and smiled in the interview.

They should have tossed the kid in the overhead bin and made the mom go with the luggage.

NExct time they should go to AVIS-two days driving with that little twerp will teach them.

AMEN RICHARD!!!



The mother was an AH that did all the talking while daddy stood off to the side and smiled in the interview.

They should have tossed the kid in the overhead bin and made the mom go with the luggage.

NExct time they should go to AVIS-two days driving with that little twerp will teach them.


RICHARD,

It's referred to as "THE LOOK". My parents had one too. Believe me when I tell you, my parents could take us ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. God help us should we get out of line. Of course, back in THOSE days, there was no such thing as the "non-spank" law (did anyone see that new law in effect in California, I think?? It's now against the law to spank a kid 4 and under. :rolleyes: )

Why can't airlines have special flights for parents with small children?? Then they can all get together, whine and let their kids run up and down the isles, wreaking havoc, without pissing off the other passengers??? *sigh* This is the one time I'm glad my kid is 30!!

[Catlady711]

Why can't airlines have special flights for parents with small children?? Then they can all get together, whine and let their kids run up and down the isles, wreaking havoc, without pissing off the other passengers???


OMGosh I LOVE that idea!!!

[Blue_Frog]

Why can't airlines have special flights for parents with small children?? Then they can all get together, whine and let their kids run up and down the isles, wreaking havoc, without pissing off the other passengers??? *sigh* This is the one time I'm glad my kid is 30!!
*lol* love that idea! I think they'd have to pay the flight attendants triple-danger-pay or something though - i know i certainly wouldn't want to be servicing that flight! :eek: :eek:

[moosmom]

Another suggestion would be to install a "soundproof" section in the back of the plane. They can run, jump, scream all they want and the people in the FRONT of the plane wouldn't have a clue as to what was happening. Of course, the parents would have to pay MORE, but ah, it'd be well worth it!! :rolleyes: :p

I endured a 2 hours flight in front of a little &^%@# crumbsnatcher who kicked my seat the whole way. The parents did absolutely NOTHING!! :mad:

[rosethecopycat]

Instead of free tickets they should have been given the phone number to Nanny 911

[cassiesmom]

I think "family flights" (with complimentary Supernanny assessments!) are a terrific idea. Maybe if high-speed rail travel ever gets up and running in the U.S., that will be a viable alternative to air travel for families with little children.

There was an article in the Chicago Tribune about this yesterday. It advised that children should be allowed to burn up all their energy in the terminal, coaxed to nap on the plane, be placed in their seat and buckled up as soon as they board the plane (with the rationale that most children understand this concept from riding in the car), and be allowed to pick out and pack their own books or quiet activities they can do on the plane. If necessary parents may surprise the child with a new book or activity. The flight attendant may be able to get the child to cooperate since children are also taught to pay attention to authority figures and the uniformed flight attendant conveys authority.

[CathyBogart]

Ah, but then inconsiderate families would scream "discrimination!" if they were told they couldn't book on the normal flights.

[wombat2u2004]

Couldn't they maybe screw a row of toddler seats onto a wing or something ??? That oughta solve the problem.

[Laura's Babies]

I had a look I gave mine in public and they understood what that look meant.. SIT DOWN! SHUT UP! BEHAVE!... they knew I would not hesitate to take them outside and make them wish they had behaved!

How anyone else raises their kids are their own business..... until they go in public! This may be the first time they have had to suffer the consequences of that childs actions but I bet you it won't be the last..

[RICHARD]

I had a look I gave mine in public and they understood what that look meant.. SIT DOWN! SHUT UP! BEHAVE!... they knew I would not hesitate to take them outside and make them wish they had behaved!




IS that a chapter in the Mom's Guide to Intimidation book???
;)