Pet Talk Training Course #1 - SIT

[elizabethann]

So this will be the first command we'll teach. Some of you have dogs that already know this command, but some don't (like Fenway will go "down" sometimes when I say "sit"). Why is that? So lets teach our dogs to "sit". I know Kfamr has some ideas (and others too). But how do you get your dog to "sit"? Do you use food? Where does your hand go when you ask your dog to "sit" (if you use hand signals)? Let's learn commands/tricks together so that by next week, our dogs will be pros at "sitting" & then we can go onto another command/trick. Don't forgot to post your pictures once your dog has mastered the command.

Okay, class #1 is in session.

[animal_rescue]

Oh Joy! All my dogs ruffly(hehe) know sit. So I'll definitely be working on that this week.

As for training: usually to teach sit I either A) Push their butt down while saying sit or B) Hold a treat over their nose, not to high for them to jump and not to low they can touch it standing.

[DrKym]

Wonderful! since mine know sit we will work on it as People approach and at curbs! Reinforce it and hone a bit more house manners! can't wait to see and share pics! :)

[cmayer31]

I will be working on sit with Frankie mostly. Any suggestion for working on sit without a treat reward? Frankie will sit for treats, but often times when we're out hiking I'd like her to sit with voice/hand signals, but without using a treat as I don't normally carry them with me while hiking.

[DrKym]

When teaching with treats, vary it. Give a treat for the first sit , do it again and just give a scritch or a good dog!, next time maybe a treat, etc. That way Frankie will catch on that SOMETIMES there is a treat and he will never be sure when so he will adapt and sit each time! My guys are happy with the praise and scritchies, but the occosional treat makes it a bonus!

[Anita Cholaine]

I got to teach Anita a few tricks, but she never really learnt sit, so I find this thread pretty useful.
I'll try to start working again on sit tomorrow, probably we'll do better with PTer's help. ;)

[3GSDMom]

When I teach sit I hold the treat up over there heads where they can see it. Once they are paying attention I give the command and slide the treat up over their head - which usually puts them into a sit. If just using the treat as a lure doesn't help, you can also push their butts down while using the treat. Also, the method I use teaches them a hand signal as well. Travis will now sit (and do other commands) with just hand signals. (and no treats as lures).

I hope that made sense.

[Kfamr]

The method I use for sit is very similar to others.

I hold a treat over their head (while saying the command "SIT.") Low enough so they don't jump, and slowly move it behind them so they sit. If this doesn't work I gently press on their backends. I hold the treat in with my thumb, middle, ring, and pinky fingers. My pointer finger is pointed upwards, which is my hand signal for sit. When they sit they receive the treat as well as verbal and physical praise.

My dogs are told to sit for everything - treats, dinner time, to go outside, get their collars or leashes, bandanas, to be petted, etc. They sit as soon as they see that they are going to get something.


Craig, re-train Frankie with a hand signal, try it the way I have with the treat and the signal at the same time. She may think you have a treat with you do the hand signal, but give her physical/verbal praise instead.

[critter crazy]

I got a question, both my large dogs, know how to sit, but will only listen if I am standing up!! For instance if i am sitting on the couch and say sit, they just look at me dumfounded! Why is that?? can someone help me with this?????

[Kfamr]

I got a question, both my large dogs, know how to sit, but will only listen if I am standing up!! For instance if i am sitting on the couch and say sit, they just look at me dumfounded! Why is that?? can someone help me with this?????


Did you train them standing up?

A lot of times when training I will move to different area of the house/different positions. Sometimes I'll train while sitting on the floor, sometimes I'll train while standing up, sometimes I'll train on my knees, etc.

I'd re-train them in different positions using some of the advice given here.

[critter crazy]

Did you train them standing up?

A lot of times when training I will move to different area of the house/different positions. Sometimes I'll train while sitting on the floor, sometimes I'll train while standing up, sometimes I'll train on my knees, etc.

I'd re-train them in different positions using some of the advice given here.

hmm....that seems to make sense!!!! duh!!! :D will work on it!!

[GreyhoundGirl]

I taught her sit by doing a swift upward movement with my right hand, which had some tasty teats in it. (which is used as the hand signal) Being no different then the average hound her eyes followed it. I just put it a bit further over her head and the butt plopped down. It was pretty simple. :p

Now all I have to do is either

1)take out a treat and the bum goes down. LOL! :rolleyes:
2) do the hand signal. :D

[buttercup132]

I tought Thunder with the good hold hand over the head trick. He now sits on command when I snap my fingers.

[agilityk9trainer]

Interesting responses.

First, I'd like to say that there is some thinking among professional trainers (of which I am one) that pushing on the butt to teach sit is causing hip problems, especially with big dogs. I and many professionals no longer recommend that old method.

The method I use is very similar to the one many of you have suggested. Take a treat. Hold it in your hand with the tip of your forefinger and thumb. With your palm up, put the treat RIGHT IN THE DOG'S NOSE. I mean, get that treat in the dog's nose, but don't let him have it. Let him get a whiff of what you've got. Then, slowly raise your hand up over the head and back. As the dog leans back to see the treat, the butt will fall. Don't push the butt down. You may, if necessary, very lightly place your hand on the back end, but do not push. The instant the dog sits, give a treat. Use a release word (OK) to release the dog from the sit. Praise verbally. You can pet as well. Repeat.

You actually don't add the command "sit" until the dog is luring into the sit position easily. Then, you will say "sit" before you begin the lure. Otherwise, the word "sit" won't develop power. If the dog can't even sit, how will it know what sit means?

Also, the biggest error people make with this method is incorrect placement of the lure. If your dog is jumping up to get the treat, you are holding the treat too high over the dog's head. Remember, it's up slightly and back - all done slowly. People also have a tendancy to move the lure way, way to fast. This is done slowly.

Over time, remove the treat from your luring hand. Keep the treat in your other hand, but continue to "pretend" there's a treat in your luring hand. Upon the sit, immediately bring in the treat with the other hand. Over time, lift your luring hand higher and higher in the air. This motion (moving your palm to the ceiling) will become your sit signal. Cool, huh!

If this method isn't working for you, you simply are doing it incorrectly. It does help to have someone watch you do it. In addition, seeing someone do it in person is priceless. Hence the importance of working in obedience classes with a real trainer.

As far as "fading" (getting rid of treats after a behavior has been learned) goes, I just posted a rather lengthy explanation on how to do that in Dog Behavior. I, unfortunately, cannot remember the name of the thread.

However, one poster said to treat for the first time your dog sits and not for the next, etc. This isn't the best approach when teaching a new behavior. When teaching a new behavior, you always treat for each successful competion of the behavior. You fade the treat away AFTER the dog has a full understanding of the command and the dog can perform it in any environment.

Also, when teaching a new behavior, I use the best treats I can get my grubby hands on. I'm not talking expensive, but the things my dog loves the best. This is usually human food. I only use human food as rewards in training, and also only for new behaviors or behaviors I'm having trouble with. Once the dog gets the behavior down, I will switch to a middle range treat (usually something store bought - my dogs like Bil Jac's Gooberlishish treats). Finally, you can switch to biscuits, and begin fading the food away (again see my post in Behavior).

Another aspect to teaching a strong behavior is "proofing." While your dog may sit fantastically in your house with few distractions, they may act like they've never heard the word when they get into a highly distractive environment. So, you must build up distractions as your dog becomes better at a behavior. I train at parks, strip-malls, Petsmarts, on walks, at people's homes - just anywhere I can find with an unusal environment that might distract the dog. Just remember. Increase the distractions slowly.

Also, an interesting point to know, dogs seem to "forget" behaviors at times. They will know sit like the back of their paw, and then one day, poof, it's gone. You'll ask for a sit, and they'll look at you like they never heard the word before. Seriously. Trainers believe they have kindof forgotten! This is EXTREMELY common. Don't get frustrated. Just go back to basics and retrain it. It will only take them a few minutes to "remember." Problems develop if the handler gets frustrated and begins getting angry at the dog. Then, "sit" becomes a bad thing, not a good thing. Always make training fun. Never get frustrated. This should be a game for the dog - not work. My dogs LOVE to train because I make it the most fun thing they do all day. It's play, play, play.

Have fun training!

[agilityk9trainer]

Ah, the thread I referenced in Behavior is called, "A Few Things I Need Help With."

[elizabethann]

I'm going to bump this up in case others haven't seen it yet.

I liked the comment critter crazy made about how your dog won't sit unless you're standing. That happens to Fenway too. I will have to tell him to sit from all types of places.

But I have a question. If Fenway doesn't sit, what do I do? Keep saying "sit" "sit" "sit" until he sits? Do I ignore him? Do I make him sit? What?

[cali]

most of my dogs were trained to sit with the treat over the head thing. Electra didnt quite catch on to that one though lol she like using her paws too much. so for her I placed my hand under her chin and lifted up and pressured inward, this causes her to sit. when walking I always have her sit at street corners(well I have all of them sit, but Happy and Misty dont have to be told lol) but when otherwise training right now I try to avoid her sitting as much as possable, just because she is not the brightest bulb on the tree and I dont want her randomly sitting in the ring lol

oh and for the standing thing, with Electra I start training something kneeling or sitting and then once is solid there I slowly rise up, just so the change of postions is not so huge. Leck is the only dog I have had to do that with though, BCs are so much eaiser to train lol

[Anita Cholaine]

I've been working on sit with Anita today. She does it pretty well, but it's hard to make her respond to just a signal, without a treat. At first, she also only seated when I was standing, but then I starting moving around the house and telling her to sit while I was on my knees or sitting on the floor, it has worked well.

We'll have to keep working on this, but I'm sure she'll be a sitting expert soon :D

[Suki Wingy]

I use a fist as the hand signal. What should I do when I go to put his leash on and tell him sit and he doesn't, or walks a circle around me first? Even if I wait and ask him a minute later he seems to remember before and so he thinks he can keep doing this.

[agilityk9trainer]

I'm going to bump this up in case others haven't seen it yet.

I liked the comment critter crazy made about how your dog won't sit unless you're standing. That happens to Fenway too. I will have to tell him to sit from all types of places.

But I have a question. If Fenway doesn't sit, what do I do? Keep saying "sit" "sit" "sit" until he sits? Do I ignore him? Do I make him sit? What?


Good question. What you don't want to do is repeat the word "sit." In training dogs, you say the command once - in a nice tone - and that's it. If the dog doesn't obey, you have to make them sit. How? Well, this is where we get into problems trying to teach something over the internet. What you need to do is a maneuver that is so difficult to explain in writing, that I can't. I could only show you in person. It's a great maneuver that doesn't involve pressing on the back hips. If you do this move incorrectly, I could see you harming your dog. That is why I am not even going to attempt to describe it on the internet.

This is precisely why I strongly encourage everyone to join an obedience class. The trainer can help you in so many ways that a book, video or the internet cannot. I mean, here we are, talking about the easiest thing to teach a dog, and already it's become impossible to completely help.

I feel a little frustrated. I think it would be best if you asked a trainer in-person. They would be able to help.

[agilityk9trainer]

I've been working on sit with Anita today. She does it pretty well, but it's hard to make her respond to just a signal, without a treat. At first, she also only seated when I was standing, but then I starting moving around the house and telling her to sit while I was on my knees or sitting on the floor, it has worked well.

We'll have to keep working on this, but I'm sure she'll be a sitting expert soon :D

As you are just beginning teaching the behavior, you shouldn't be doing just the hand signal without treats yet. You move to that slowly, over time, as she excels at the behavior. If you move too fast with behaviors, they will disappear.

[elizabethann]

Good question. What you don't want to do is repeat the word "sit." In training dogs, you say the command once - in a nice tone - and that's it. If the dog doesn't obey, you have to make them sit. How? Well, this is where we get into problems trying to teach something over the internet. What you need to do is a maneuver that is so difficult to explain in writing, that I can't. I could only show you in person. It's a great maneuver that doesn't involve pressing on the back hips. If you do this move incorrectly, I could see you harming your dog. That is why I am not even going to attempt to describe it on the internet.

This is precisely why I strongly encourage everyone to join an obedience class. The trainer can help you in so many ways that a book, video or the internet cannot. I mean, here we are, talking about the easiest thing to teach a dog, and already it's become impossible to completely help.

I feel a little frustrated. I think it would be best if you asked a trainer in-person. They would be able to help.

Fenway has been to obedience school. But I thought it would be fun to do a refresher course/beginner's course on PT so our dogs can perfect their skills. I'm all for obedience school. I was just trying to do something fun. :(

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Fenway has been to obedience school. But I thought it would be fun to do a refresher course/beginner's course on PT so our dogs can perfect their skills. I'm all for obedience school. I was just trying to do something fun. :(


And you succeeded - I enjoyed reading all the methods used.

My two sit 99% of the time and I find to keep this up they don't always get a treat, sometimes its verbal praise instead

[borzoimom]

Well Borzois do not sit- ..
How I taught sit to my shepherds- is I never pushed the rear. Shepherd pups have loose joints in their hips, and you can cause problems.
Its hard to explain in typing what I do automaticially, but basically I call the puppy towards me- walking backwards. As the puppy comes in, I then take a step into the puppy, with my right hand over their head ( mimic I have a treat)- say "sit" in a calm but firm voice with gentleness ( the voice they later learn- I am talking to you..), and step in slightly- the puppy sits as looking at my hand..
Later I reduce my hand and straighten my body posture. I have found within a matter of a few times- not only does this teach to come to me and sit in front of me ( reducing jumping up on you etc) but its a " happy sit" verses the 'image" of being forced..
When I use to enter the house, all the dogs would come running to me, check their step and sit in front of me- it was actually rather funny- as I had ranks sitting in front of me as I tried to come into the house. ..

[agilityk9trainer]

Fenway has been to obedience school. But I thought it would be fun to do a refresher course/beginner's course on PT so our dogs can perfect their skills. I'm all for obedience school. I was just trying to do something fun. :(

Oh, I'm sorry. I did not mean to rain on your parade. It was a good idea, and you should continue. It's just frustrating for a person who teaches to be limited to the interent when there's so much more I could help with if I had full access. That's all. I was jjust venting. Keep up the topic!

[Kfamr]

Fenway has been to obedience school. But I thought it would be fun to do a refresher course/beginner's course on PT so our dogs can perfect their skills. I'm all for obedience school. I was just trying to do something fun. :(


Don't worry, this is a lot of fun! Don't let anyone make you think otherwise. If they don't find it fun, they do not have to read.

Not everyone has the money for obedience school and not every dog needs it, so this is a wonderful way for those of us who train our dogs by ourselves to learn!

[animal_rescue]

Don't worry, this is a lot of fun! Don't let anyone make you think otherwise. If they don't find it fun, they do not have to read.

Not everyone has the money for obedience school and not every dog needs it, so this is a wonderful way for those of us who train our dogs by ourselves to learn!

Agreed. This is great and I love it!! I love reading the different methods and the help online from other, friendly people.

[Taz_Zoee]

Oh, I'm sorry. I did not mean to rain on your parade. It was a good idea, and you should continue. It's just frustrating for a person who teaches to be limited to the interent when there's so much more I could help with if I had full access. That's all. I was jjust venting. Keep up the topic!

I am just wondering if you have a video camera? You could be our teacher! Although you would not get paid, huh? Ok, maybe not. LOL
Your tips are helpful, please don't get frustrated. Take a deep breath and just describe as best as you can. I understood what you were saying, at least I think I did.

With Zoee we use the fist as the signal (with the food in it to start). However, we did have to apply slight pressure to her rear because the going over her head way wouldn't work for her. She would just back up. And that only took a few times, nothing that would have hurt her hips. But now she will sit when told or by just the signal.
I am pretty luck, since my boyfriend is an excellent trainer. :D So I let him train her and me. hee hee

[BitsyNaceyDog]

I taught her sit by doing a swift upward movement with my right hand, which had some tasty teats in it. (which is used as the hand signal) Being no different then the average hound her eyes followed it. I just put it a bit further over her head and the butt plopped down. It was pretty simple. :p
That is how I taught my dogs too.

[agilityk9trainer]

I am just wondering if you have a video camera? You could be our teacher! Although you would not get paid, huh? Ok, maybe not. LOL
Your tips are helpful, please don't get frustrated. Take a deep breath and just describe as best as you can. I understood what you were saying, at least I think I did.

With Zoee we use the fist as the signal (with the food in it to start). However, we did have to apply slight pressure to her rear because the going over her head way wouldn't work for her. She would just back up. And that only took a few times, nothing that would have hurt her hips. But now she will sit when told or by just the signal.
I am pretty luck, since my boyfriend is an excellent trainer. :D So I let him train her and me. hee hee

Thank you. If I were better at this technical stuff, the video would be a great idea. As it is, I'm very luck just to be able to figure out hot to type in a post! :)

What hand signal you use really doesn't matter, as long as you are consistant with it. A fist is great. And, if you only press slightly a few times, you won't be doing any damage.

[Kfamr]

So, how is everyone doing with sit?

[K9soul]

I haven't read through every reply so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I taught Raven sit by simply letting her figure it out on her own. I used a clicker. I would stand in front of her with a treat and she'd look up at me and I'd just stand there and wait. If she started jumping up to try to get the treat I'd just ignore her/turn away. As soon as I saw her start to sit her butt down I'd say "sit" and when when her rear touched the floor I'd click and treat. She picked it up in about 5 minutes, almost immediately really.

Raven just started her puppy class but the class setting for me serves two huge purposes: Socialization with other people and dogs, and working on her commands with distractions, strangers, other dogs, etc. surrounding her. I wish I had enrolled Tasha in puppy classes. I would say anyone who has a pup that shows any signs of shyness or skittishness or timidity that it's CRUCIAL if you want to try and help them overcome that while they are little.

Most of her actual commands are taught at home before she ever reaches class anyway :D.

[Husky_mom]

I have been reading..........and I have to say Ninja knows how to sit, she learned as a puppy.......I used the treat over head method along with the hand signal, very similar as Kay´s just intead of leaving the index finger standing I use that one and the thumb........like as saying Ok but keeping the other three close together......

now I just say sit or do the hand signal and she sits.......:)



but China, oh China........she has no cure I believe she undertands "sit" as "run in circle" LOL.........I´ll have to try the other methods mentioned, because whenever I try she just runs and runs........not even with a treat she sits... :rolleyes: ........

so I´ll work with her more till I find a working way into her hard headed husky mind...LOL ;)

[elizabethann]

So far, Fenway is good with sit. Especially if I have turkey or chicken in my hand. I took him to the beach on Saturday and he wouldn't sit. Only then did I realize he was standing in a pool of water and he probably didn't want to get his little butt wet. But when he moved to the sand, he sat like a good boy. I'm so mad because I forgot to bring my camera.