Environmental Awareness *Go Green!!!*

[Giselle]

I don't know if many of you heard, but the Yangtse River Dolphin (aka Baiji) was declared functionally extinct a few days ago. From what I understand, they couldn't find any dolphins in a rigorous search, but it won't be officially extinct until it has been 50 years. While that doesn't sound like much, this is a huge red flag.

It just overwhelms me. Doesn't anybody care? In the midst of this Christmas season, we've resorted to replacing love with material goods. Doesn't anybody care where all this, well, trash is going? Does NOBODY care about the enviornment anymore? I hope people realize that we live ON earth. We are NOT the world itself. We live on this place, and it's our duty to keep it healthy for our future generations.

On another board, a member wrote about a new neighborhood cropping up near her house. A few days later, she found a fox couple on her property looking for a new den. As dog lovers, we should be appalled by this. But it seems like nobody is.

People need to grow up a little. The world doesn't revolve around humans. I hate to paraphrase Chief Seattle's noble words, but it's true. We aren't the web of life. We're just a strand. Jeez. Wake up people. :(

[Argranade]

That's so sad, & it sickens me ...

Yes I belive humans are NOT doing enough to presurve this earth .. or whats left of it atleast :rolleyes:, all these goverments should be foucused on the earth & nothing more because it's whats keeping humans alive & where making the earth die, global warming so far is the biggest issue I would say .. Polar bears & seals are dieing because all the beautiful snow & ice is melting.

I mean look at Toronto, what happened to COLD Canada?

I wish I could just make everyone turn off the lights when there not in use, walk to the 2 block away store NOT drive, go to the park don't go to your couch & watch stupid T.V, go help out at a wild life centre, if a tree is going to be cut down or a forest for the purpose of a mall grab your friends and try to stop it ... sleep there every night if you have too ect ...

I feel & know people are just not doing enough, If I had a wish it would be that the earth could never be polutited EVER!, lol I don't know if that will ever happen buy hey .. it's worth a wish. :D

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I know what you mean- I try to do my best but I know I could do more. It does seem a bit overwhelming, though, when one considers how obstacles we face to creating a more "green" society. I think people care, in a way, but most people don't bother themselves with changing their lifestyles in order to make a difference.

[Argranade]

This is horrible.


It's said that by the time a baby born today is 80 years old, the world will be 6 and a half degrees warmer than it is now.

[wolflady]

I totally agree with this rant. It's really sad how destructive, selfish and uncaring people really are. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen some jerk throw trash out their window while driving, or even people walking on the streets just littering their trash on the sidewalks. It's just disgusting. The world is not a trashcan, people! :mad:

There was a line in Independence Day (the movie), that actually describes how I feel about people...they're like locusts consuming every last resource until there is nothing left and the world destroyed. It was something along that line about the aliens, but in reality...that's the human population. Humans are trashing the planet, using up every last resource, and sadly...nobody even seems to care. :(

I try to do every little bit that I can, but I get so discouraged when I see how many people treat the earth they live on...:(

[Paws13]

I feel the exact same way. No body these days care about the Earth. Don't people know the Artic is melting because of us polluting the air. Doesn't people care we are killing many innocent animals for no reason. We are cutting down their habitat. I just think everything us humans do on this Earth is wrong. We cut down millions of trees for our houses, paper and lots of other stuff. We drive too much and pollute the air. It's rediclous!

Don't call me crazy or anything, but I personally think Earth would be a lot more cleaner, healthier and more peaceful if us humans didn't exist!

EVERYONE PLEASE HELP SAVE THE ENVIROMENT!!
DON'T LITTER!!
RECYLCE!!
DRIVE LESS!!
THE FUTURE OF THE EARTH DEPENDS ON US!!

[Alysser]

I had NO clue about this... :(

I can tell you now that I'm almost in tears reading that. This is so sad. I really don't think much people care anymore if animal extinction keeps happening. I loved those river dolphins. They were very unique creatures, but now their gone. I'm in shock.. :mad: We have lost so many wonderful, beautiful animals because of humans alone. I know other things come into affect, but this is just so bad, and I'm sad to say if something isn't done, more animals will be extinct very soon.

[Giselle]

Don't call me crazy or anything, but I personally think Earth would be a lot more cleaner, healthier and more peaceful if us humans didn't exist!

LOL. Oh, not at all. That's basically what I wrote on the other forum with the developing neighborhood and displaced foxes. If human life didn't exist, the world would be fine. And, apparently, that looks exactly like where we're headed. Nature has its way of cleansing itself and it looks like we're digging our own graves.

I'm glad to see like-minded people on this board. Unfortunately, to the public eye, any concern for the environment is often perceived to be radical and...well...crazy-grassroots-college-kids.

[Suki Wingy]

Wow. My friend and I did a massive research project last year on the more common river dolphin, Inia geofrensis (Boto, or Amazon) We learned a small bit about the Yangtse, but neigher of us had any idea it was that endangered. What this world has come to. :mad: :(

[Miss Z]

I really can't believe it. Another species - gone. How many is it going to take until the whole human race realises what a f***-up we've made, are we going to lose the tigers, the elephants, the pandas? Or perhaps we'll just go on choking the air with gases until we've managed to go the whole hog and obliterated the ice caps. :mad:

[Randi]

This world has become so comsumer fixated, it's really sad! :( Whatever lifestyle we're living, we can all little things. Seeing people in public behaving well cocerning throwing trash etc., will probably instigate others to behave equaly nice and make more good examples. :)

Years ago, I did my bit to save on the water and I turn the light off if I leave a room for more than 15 min. too. I would hate not to able to get my fresh water from the tap, but it could easily happen that we'll all have to go and buy bottled water. :(

It's little things, but it all helps if everybody is doing it. :) My sister and BIL has a fancy car, but they hace started bicycling a lot, also when they go shopping.

It's a good thing that so many TV stations bring these documentaries on environment up, and the climate changes too. What an eyeopener! :eek:

Just this evening, quite a long strech of Motorway/Highway? collapsed in Sweden, because it had been raining extremely much in December, and the ground under it, simply eroded and collapsed.

We just can't grasp the consequences of what we do. I believe it won't be long because the Earth is so damaged that there are no way back! VERY SAD!! :(

I was SO angry back in the nineties, seing The bastard Saddam burning all those oil wells. Don't know hoe much of it you saw on US TV, but lots and lots of birds, fish and other animals were covered in oil for a long time. :mad:

[lizbud]

I do understand this real threat to humanity & the earth itself. Do you
know that it is estimated that by the year 2010 there will be no tigers left
in the wild anywhere on earth. A whole species gone. :(
....
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7897/tiger.html

[areias]

We can sue people for wearing a Santa Claus hat, but we can't stop someone from cutting down a forest. Unbelievable.

At some point I believe we will be living in a gigantic bubble or dome or something.

[IRescue452]

Species go extinct daily, not just tigers and dolphins, but plants and insects. Each little piece that goes is part of the big picture. I'm glad the large animals remind us of what we are doing to the world, but they don't go daily like the little ones. We need more reminders of this daily tragedy, but unfortunately important news loses out to which celebrity is going on vacation to where and with who.

[moosmom]

Our planet is going to hell in a handbasket. The weather is beautiful out in the middle of December. Why??? Global warming, that's why. It's been proven that global warming is taking away the iceberg that polar bears rely on.

It sickens me whenever I see a wild animal dead on the side of the road. They are foraging for food because the land and trees they rely on to find food and shelter are being destroyed by huge housing complexes all for the almighty buck.

I was waiting at a traffic light when a car 2 cars ahead of me tossed a Dunkin Donuts cup out the window. UGH!!!! :mad:

[Giselle]

So true, IRescue. We humans don't understand the extent of our destruction until it wipes out a species like dolphins or until it nearly completely dries up Lake Chad. But underneath all of that is the everyday destruction of smaller insects and bugs (like caterpillars) that disrupt the food chain (like birds).

Unfortunately, we're like that frog in a tube of lukewarm water. We don't feel the heat until it boils. It's just frustrating. We all need to do something. When you're not in a room, turn the lights off for goodness sake. Walk more. Bike more. We all just need to go green!

[Sevaede]

No, but thank you for enlightening us on the subject! :(

That is so, so, terrible. One of the four species of black rhino (found in South Africa, I *think*) was just recently declared extinct. I mourn for all these lost souls. I mourn for the environment. For the future generations.

:(

Recycle, grow your own vegetables and herbs, donate, share, etc. are just some of the things that come to mind.

*sigh*

The comic Mutts has a strip of tigers, zebras, elephants, baboons, hyenas, etc, fading away until they're gone from the last strip. It's so sad. :(

[Suki Wingy]

oh but tigers won't go extinct in captivity, no, there're almost overpopulated. :(

[Giselle]

True, but they'll eventually go extinct in the wild. Reintroducing species is such a tricky process, mostly because their habitat is gone and there's nothing left to salvage. :( I'm changing the title of this thread. More people need to read this.

[TamanduaGirl]

oh but tigers won't go extinct in captivity, no, they're almost overpopulated. :(

and you'd rather they die out completely? We would have no wild bison today if it weren't for private(pet/food animals) keepers who offered there's for reintroduction.

A lot of very endangered animals are not even in zoos, as they aren't "interesting" enough for the public. The zoos have to keep what people want to see to generate ticket sales. With this in mind, many private owners have stepped up to the plate and created stud books. They are really the only hope for some species that don't breed well in zoos, or just aren't interesting.

How many people have heard of a Geoffroy's cat? Not many, and that is because there are only 5!!! in AZA zoos across north america. Pretty pathetic for a CITES I species. So us private owners have stepped up to the plate and made stud books and try and preserve genetic diversity.

If someone wants to one day own an exotic pet, but really wants to help the species, its something to think about. There are programs in place for several species. Here is some more information on the Geoffroy's cat species enhancement strategy for anyone interested in what kind of impact private owners can have:
http://www.geoffroyscatses.org/index.html

most of that after the first paragraph is taken from a friend who just got one of those cats and is participating. I have Pua similarly plan to get her a mate and go from there. Historically tamanduas have not done well in zoos. Some one I know got a pair from a zoo that had never bred they bred almost right away for her and had a baby. I will help preserve her species and educate about her, her enviornment and the plight of the rainforest. Animals do well as pets and when given a "value". No domestic species has ever gone extinct, breeds yes the whole species never. Some species like tigers and lions might one day only be around as pets if they remain legal to keep.

it's nice to complain but what are you really doing to save the earth? How does recycling stop other countries from dumping in their rivers? How does driving less help starving families not kill for bush meat to eat or sell too feed their families? Yes it's better than nothing but it's really hardly anything and requires little to no effort no a days with curbside recycling of cans, cardboard and many plastics.

Have you bothered to write letters to help save prarie dogs in your own country(usa residents). Do you donate money or at least click everyday to save the rainforest http://www.therainforestsite.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/CTDSites Do you also recycle electronics too? Batteries? Buy used goods? How do people grow their own food living in apartments and slums ect?

In reality most people live in less fortunate countries and are just struggling to survive. If you have even 2,000 dollars in money and possessions you are considered wealthy when compared to the world population! We have it good and as such have more leisure time to worry about the environment and we as a country pollute less and have more preserved lands though 80% or so of all US wild land is owned and preserved by ranchers and farmers, not those factory farmers though. That being said do you buy locally grown produce and meat?

There's a ton more you can be doing fairly easily, try picking just one or two to start. Ever talk to people you see litter or not recycle, pick up after others when you do see trash laying there? Even just tell others to click on that link.

I am also tired of this whole self loathing thing where everyone is supposed to hate their own species. I refuse to believe every single human is scum and that they all should parish. I do not even think the majority is scum. The majority I meet are nice people. None are perfect but are decent beings.

[Lady's Human]

The river dolphin went extinct in China.

You can get upset with China. yell, scream, whatever, they don't care.

This is a country that in the last 30 years has killed millions of its own people. The government just DOESN'T Care. They have been being warned about the Yangtze for at least two decades by the UN, the US, the EU, greenpeace, you name it. They aren't listening.

Why are engines and transmissions for GM vehicles being built in China? Cheap labor and NO environmental regs. The same goes for almost every factory that has been opened in China.

The west has actually been doing a decent job with environmental regs. China and Russia, however, have done nothing. India has done little. And the governments genuinely don't give a damn.

[IRescue452]

Russia just set aside one of the largest total areas of river for a conservation area because of the endangered fish species that use the tributaries. Russia is starting to do good.

[Giselle]

TamanduaGirl, driving less and not helping starving families in Africa is very distantly related. What I was addressing in my initial post was the immediate urge for global warming awareness and the seemingly human ignorance of this issue. While driving less may not directly help a starving family avoid killing a chimpanzee, it WILL help preserve our earth and, thus, the human race. Sure, there are many social and economical problems in the world that we need to address but that in itself calls for its own thread. What I am concerned and very angry about now is the fact that very little people are concerned about the EARTH as a whole. If we fail the Earth and if the Earth fails us, that would mean our ultimate demise.

Recycling very well will and can help other countries stop dumping in their rivers. Until we serve as a model country, no other nation is going to give us the time of day. So how will they "listen" to us if we don't even practice what we preach? Our first objective should be to ratify the darned Kyoto Protocol! I fail to comprehend how we can be so haughty as to criticize other countries when we ourselves refuse to ratify the Kyoto Treaty. I can barely be supportive (for lack of better words) of the human race at the rate we're going. Complain or not, carbon dioxide is rising and so is the temperature. Our environment is failing. Ice is melting. Land is becoming dehydrated. I believe the current statistic for carbon dioxide is approximately 600 parts per million. That is scary.

If global warming were so easy to fix, there would not be a critical debate about it. But it is terribly complicated because we made it so. There is not a single answer. However, the little things we do eventually will add up. So, no, driving less may not directly help a starving family in Africa or Asia. No, recycling may not directly help war-torn refugees in Darfur. No, turning off a light may not help refugees in Iraq. But does that give us a reason NOT to do these little things? We need to do these little things. Eventually, they will add up. A single voice of reason is a revolution in a crowd of dissent. We need to start this revolution for the environment. Otherwise, we're going to find ourselves in a watery grave. And when we reach that point, it won't matter who is starving, who is killing, who is dying. When that point is reached, we will all find ourselves with a similar fatal fate.

Lady's Human, my brother and I had a talk about that and he agreed with you. He doesn't care anymore because the government doesn't. How reassuring :(

[TamanduaGirl]

My point was that those two or three little things are two or three little things almost everyone does and it's just daily life, at least in most US cities and suburbs. Who wants to pay extra for the light bill? Who wants to pay extra for trash when recycling gets taken away for free? Who wants to pay a bigger gas bill for driving when they don't need to? If that's all you are doing you aren't doing anything. I listed many things that can be done with little effort and you didn't mention any of that. Have you ever done any of them? Did you even bother to click on the link and save a few feet of rain forest? You're likely on line everyday so what harm is there to you to click daily?

As for global warming well the ice caps are crumbling at the edges but they are getting thicker in depth so are really about the same mass as always. The oceans around the equator have actually gotten cooler. The air temp has gone up a bit but the earth has NEVER had a stable envornment. There have been many ice ages and hot dry times, it cycles and this we are living in now has been the longest in between there has been yet. Finlay all the other planets in our solar system have heated up to about the same amount in the same time frame so it could well be related and we certainly aren't responsible for them too.

I wasn't going to bring that up though because it's a 100% we are harming the earth weather we have anything to do with any warming or not. Again the post wasn't saying not to recycle it was saying are you actually doing anything to help I mean realy doing something you wouldn't do every day anyway for other reasons?

[Lady's Human]

Lady's Human, my brother and I had a talk about that and he agreed with you. He doesn't care anymore because the government doesn't. How reassuring

Where did I say that? :confused:

[Giselle]

Lady's Human, he just agreed in that the government isn't doing anything. Sorry. Could see how it could have gotten misinterpreted.

TamanduaGirl, see, I don't think global warming is a natural anomaly. I don't think there is any dispute over its credibility. Yes, there have been heat cycles in the past couple hundred years that we've recorded, but this current one is incredibly larger and incredibly longer than the ones before. And at the rate we're going, it's increasing with every moment. Where did you find information about polar caps thickening in depth? I'd like to see the link.

Even if you don't believe that global warming is a serious issue. Let's consider the science. Carbon dioxide generally has a lower specific heat than nitrogen, the main component of the earth's atmosphere. Thus, co2 traps more heat. As enormous amounts of carbon dioxide are pulsated into the atmosphere, more heat and light rays are trapped in instead of bouncing back out. Polar ice caps melt. Glaciers melt. Sea level will eventually rise. More heat is continually trapped because of the lost "mirror"-effect of the ice caps. The temperature continues rising and moisture is continually pulled from land. None of this is speculation.

And since you must ask me personally, here's a short list of what I do:
- I'm a vegetarian for environmental reasons purely
- All the lightbulbs in our house have been energy efficient for the past 5-6 years
- I've made an effort to buy exclusively from the two local farmer's markets, which solves your buying local/buying organic issue at once
- My dogs and I do not eat commercialized food. We rarely, if ever, have overprocessed/overpackaged junk in our house
- I was a regular volunteer at the Oakland Zoo and donated $100 during that time
- We replaced our old washing machine with an EnergyStar
- I do recycle batteries as I know of the risks of heavy metal leakage
- Despite the relative cold weather of my neighborhood, I managed to grow a myriad of veggies and fruits and a nice, big, white, flowery tree whose name I don't know.
- I'm a SCA volunteer and donor
- And, why, yes, I did click on your link! :) I don't know how credible that link is (the .com caused a little doubt), but I didn't have the time nor effort to check its legitimacy.

I can't think of much else off the top of my head, but if you insist, I can certainly continue the list.

[Lady's Human]

"The government" is a vague term.

I specifically referred to the Chinese, Russian and Indian governments.

The US government is doing much in the realm of being "green", but what this country does to clean up is more than cancelled out by the three countries I mentioned in particular.

A modern SUV pollutes less running on the highway at 75 MPH than a 1980 subcompact does sitting in place.

You also have to consider what being green/eco friendly really means.

One popular "feel good" way to lower pollutants you are producing is to get a hybrid. There's more pollution and energy use involved in the production of
a hybrid auto than you could ever save by using the hybrid. Batteries, special electrical components, etc. produce more pollutants than a normal vehicle will over a lifetime.

Electric cars? Again, sounds good, but where does the additional electricity come from? Also, back to the sticky issue of high density storage batteries.

[columbine]

Don't give up - humans' increasing crowding and dependence on antibiotics may turn the tide yet, albeit at a cost that none of us can yet imagine.

[Lady's Human]

BTW, as to the science, much of what you posted as fact is in fact theory, at least the point that humans are causing it. The earth has undergone climate changes many, many times through its existence. There were no SUVs around to account for the end of the little ice age in approx 1800.

The climate is cyclical, and I doubt our less than 150 years of collecting data even begins to account for a part of a cycle.

[TamanduaGirl]

That link has been around for years as well as the click to sponsure breast cancer research thing they host and I'd think it would be exposed by now if it were fake. I'm glad you're doing all that. Most don't and just claim to dive less and recycle and then complain about how things are.

The earth has been around more than 100 years that we've studied it. scientists have evidence in sea floor core samples and in various glacial ice core samples of 17 ice ages "small" and "large" over the last 1.8 million years.
and in between each "ice age" there are warm "interglacial periods". The shortest interglacial period was approximately 8,OOO years, and the longest interglacial lasted approximately 12,OOO years."


"The geographic North Pole was last covered with water about 50 million years ago, during the early part of the present Cenozoic Era. Known as the ¦Age of Mammals² and the ¦Recent Life Era,² this modern age ¤ which saw the dawn of human beings ³ began 65 million years ago."

And so the earth cycles through times of cold and hot to the point that the poles have melted to the point of just water before. Even if we are speeding it up it is something that is going to happen anyway. It warms and melts to a point where the ocean curents shift and then cooling happens and there's the new iceage to deal with.


Of course they try to blame thicker ice cap on global warming still but it does say basicaly what I said that it is getting thicker. The smaller glaciers are melting away but they would anyway as it was pointed out we are coming out of one of those icages still in one of those inbetween stages.

The arctic pole is thinning some but still gets fresh deposits of several feet in thickness every year. the antarctic pole is thickening at a rate that at least for now cancels it out.

a lot is still so uncertain with the idea of global warming and it was not that long ago scientists were predicting a new ice age which could still come about due in part to global warming. and looking at the past schedual of how long these in between stages seemed to last we are about due for a big swing. I look at it as seasons of the globe, natural cycles. Even if we are contributing to it happening a bit more quickly it would be foolish to think if humans were eradicated today it wouldn't still happen. History repeats it's self and so will the cold and hot spells of the earth. It was once warm and tropical enough all over Tamanduas lived in the UK.

And there's still no acounting for the fact the other planets in our solar system are undergoing the same amount of warming we are and they can't say why.

none of that is to say we shouldn;'t be worried about what we do to the envornment but that global warming isn't the thing to focus on. Loss of habitat is. If you loose all the wild lands and polute the oceans then you end the earth or at least destroy ourselves and leave cockroaches to rule the world.

Antarctica ice cap thickens, slowing rise of sea levels
Scientists say it's an effect of global warming
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2005/05/27/antarctic-ice-a-global-warming-snow-job/#more-113
The arctic caps is however a bit thinner based on a satelite sruvey
BY ROBERT LEE HOTZ

Los Angeles Times

As glaciers from Greenland to Kilimanjaro recede at record rates, the central ice cap of Antarctica has steadily grown for the past 11 years, partially offsetting rising seas due to global warming, researchers said Thursday.

The vast East Antarctic Ice Sheet — a 2-mile-thick wasteland of ice larger than Australia, drier than the Sahara and as cold as a Martian spring — increased in mass every year between 1992 and 2003 due to additional snowfall, an analysis of satellite radar measurements showed.

"It is an effect that has been predicted as a likely result of climate change," said David Vaughan, an independent expert on the ice sheets at the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge, England.

In a region known for the lowest temperatures on Earth, it normally is too cold to snow across the 2.7 million square miles of the ice sheet. Additional snowfall in east Antarctica is almost certainly due to warmer temperatures, four experts on Antarctica said.

"As the atmosphere warms, it should hold more moisture," said climatologist Joseph McConnell at the Desert Research Institute in Reno, Nev., who helped conduct the study. "In East Antarctica, that means there should be more snowfall."

The additional snowfall is enough to account for an extra 45 billion tons of water added to the ice sheet every year, about equal to the annual amount of water flowing into the ocean from the melting Greenland ice cap, researchers said Thursday in the online journal Science.

Rising sea levels, which could swamp coastal and island communities, are a serious potential consequence of global warming, according to the most recent assessment by the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

Sea level is believed to be rising worldwide by 1.8 millimeters a year due to the expansion of warming water and the added outwash from melting glaciers in Greenland, Alaska, tropical highlands and elsewhere in Antarctica.

Every millimeter of increased sea level corresponds to about 350 billion tons of water a year.

The growth in the East Antarctic ice cap is enough to slow sea-level rise by a fraction of that — 0.12 millimeters a year — the researchers reported.

The fresh water locked up in the ice of East Antarctica is enough to raise the level of the oceans by about 196 feet, experts said. If it continues to grow as expected, the ice sheet could help buffer some of the effects of anticipated sea-level rise for much of the coming century, the researchers said.

"It is the only large body of ice absorbing sea level rise, not contributing to it," said mapping expert Curt Davis at the University of Missouri, Columbia, who led the research team.

The researchers based their conclusions on an analysis of 347 million radar altimeter measurements made by European Space Agency satellites from June 1992 to May 2003.

[Giselle]

I disagree and agree to a certain point. Loss of habitat is an enormous concern. But our methods of destroying habitat are contributing to enviornmental health (or, rather, lack thereof) and the subsequent global warming. Slash and burn techniques in the Amazon kill innumerable animals and destroys precious habitat, yes. But it also produces acid rain and an even larger amount of CO2. Habitat destruction and global warming go hand in hand. In an effort to curb our CO2 output, we should also be aware of how we leave our footprints in the world.

Indeed, the earth has been around for more than 100 years. But in the 100 or so years that we've been studying it, we've managed to look back in time at least 650,000 years in terms of ice ages and heat waves. While that is nothing compared to our actual time on the earth and the earth's age itself, it provides a good look at what normal activity is and isn't. What we're experiencing now is not normal by any means.

Perhaps we are overdue for our next ice age, but human activity is certainly speeding it up. And should we completely ignore the signs, we might as well sign off now and continue living the trash-exorbitant lifestyle that we, as a whole, live now. The point is not to debate whether or not global warming is "real" or that it truly is happening. My point was to mention that these things are truly happening, and while they are nature driven to a certain point, we are speeding it up at an insane speed. Is that not digging our own graves? I read the article and I did not read that the antartic is "cancelling" out the overall sea level rise:

Sea level is believed to be rising worldwide by 1.8 millimeters a year due to the expansion of warming water and the added outwash from melting glaciers in Greenland, Alaska, tropical highlands and elsewhere in Antarctica.

The growth in the East Antarctic ice cap is enough to slow sea-level rise by a fraction of that — 0.12 millimeters a year — the researchers reported.
If I did my math right, that's about 6.67%. That's not nearly enough to set back the effects of glacial melting. I'll need to get back to this as Christmas festivities are calling me, but I'll finish this later.

Continuing on :) So we've come to the conclusion that 1) the earth has always had heat waves but there's no doubt that this heat wave is much prolonged and much more intense 2) habitat destruction is a definite problem and a large contributor to global warming 3) the enviornment is definitely in need of a little boost. So one thing is crystal clear: We as a whole community need to do something. This was the whole purpose of my initial post: to call PTers forward and urge them to make an impact in their community, and, hopefully, in the larger community - our earth and our world. It's commendable that you are so passionate about tropical forests and such as the destruction of these precious and diminishing habitats is a large contributor to global warming and the overall health of our earth and its inhabitants.

While this, er, debate might seem troublesome, I think this is a fabulous learning experience. I hope PTers do read this and make some wholesome decisions for themselves. Plant a tree (lots of trees!!), buy local and organic, dump your old gas guzzler for a more efficient car, replace your lightbulbs, replace your old appliances with EnergyStars, walk dont drive, heck, you might even consider going veg! And fight to keep your local flora and fauna. Global warming requires global changes. Global changes start locally. Let's all start locally, PTers.

[Miss Z]

As for global warming well the ice caps are crumbling at the edges but they are getting thicker in depth so are really about the same mass as always. The oceans around the equator have actually gotten cooler. The air temp has gone up a bit but the earth has NEVER had a stable envornment. There have been many ice ages and hot dry times, it cycles and this we are living in now has been the longest in between there has been yet. Finlay all the other planets in our solar system have heated up to about the same amount in the same time frame so it could well be related and we certainly aren't responsible for them too.


That's a good point. However, whether or not the ice-caps are increasing in depth and therefore staying on average at the same volume, the crumbling of the edges reduces the surface area of the ice-cap. In the Arctic, this harms the polar bear, as I'm sure someone mentioned before. The seals which it hunts do not have the relatively thin sea ice to make breathing holes in, the method that the polar bear relies on to catch them. The seals can just swim in the unfrozen water and the polar bear doesn't stand a chance of outswimming them.

It's true, the oceans will and are getting cooler, due to the ice that is melting into them. I heard that Britain will get a lot cooler before we get hotter due to a current that runs between it and Ireland being affected by the melting ice.

You do have a good point about the fact it may not all be down to us. For millions of years, Earth has plunged in and out of ice ages and heatwaves, so we can never expect that to change. But due to this unstability of our climate, we could really do without hurrying it up.

I agree with Giselle, this certainly has been an interesting thread.