*UPDATE DEC 22nd!!* Surgery done - FULL INTACT OVARY FOUND

[BC_MoM]

A little bit of history:

- Molly was spayed at the humane society Feb 27.
- Early April she had an infection from the sutures used and was put on Clavamox.
- Throughout July, she had a false pregnancy (she even starting LACTATING) and was sick almost through August as well.

She is now having problems again - licking herself until she cries (frustration) and her nipples are swollen and crusty.

We were going to have a urinalysis done at our vet on Saturday morning, but our vet advised us we phone the city pound (where we got Molly). The pound then told us to go after the HS.

The vet who did the surgery volunteers only when needed to perform speuters - he is normally a large animal (specifically horse). My Mom did a little research, turns out her friend had HER female dog spayed by him and she has the same problems.

So we are all leaning towards incomplete spay, have been since the summer.

We called the HS on Friday and the lady right away started getting defensive and defending the vet who did the procedure.. she even said there was no such thing as an incomplete spay!!

After she calmed down, we explained we are not blaming anyone, we simply want to find out the problem and correct it. But we will NOT pay for it.

So tomorrow she is going in for a urinalysis, bloodwork and they will check her vulva, all free of charge.

I'm just asking for prayers - Molly has been suffering off and on since February and I feel it was my fault for not asking the pound if we could get it done at our vet (we had to sign a contract saying we would get it done at the WHS).

Thank you in advance for any and all prayers. :)

[borzoimom]

Okay- increase her b vitamins. Either broccoli or give her a 1/4 of a b complex. I need to know her weight. Also- a half a capsule of red raspberry twice a day...

[luvofallhorses]

lots of good thoughts and prayers going out to Molly and it's not your fault! :) I hope everything goes well tomorrow. (((Molly)))

[Catlady711]

I really hope they find out for sure what is wrong with Molly and get her all fixed up. Keep us updated!

That's unfortunately some of the problems with the low cost/free spay/neuter clinics. Most of them are done by several rotating vets volunteering their services, animals are basically done in an 'assembly line' fashion and since most of them have never seen the animal before they don't always know what's normal for each animal. Many of them don't do a pre-op exam or bloodwork (to keep costs down) and since many animals aren't vaccinated that have surgery sometimes diseases can be passed among the patients. :eek:

I think what they're trying to do is great, for both animals (to reduce overpopulation and mammary tumors, pyrometra etc) and for the owners who may have financial difficulties. However it does have drawbacks. As they say 'sometimes you get what you pay for'.Spaying in low cost clinic vs. vet hospital Question #7) (http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_the_feline_spay.html#07)

Incomplete spays are possible if the vet didn't get all the parts out. As for the HS lady saying 'there's no such thing as an incomplete spay' here are some articals on the subject...

By Antech (a large veterinary lab) (http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/2003/sep03_01.htm)

very short case notes published by AAHA (American Animal Hospital Association) (http://www.jaaha.org/cgi/content/abstract/32/4/291)

I found additional links to articals published by the JAVMA (Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association) however they were all pay per article. :(

[chocolatepuppy]

Poor Molly, having to go through all of this. :( I will keep her in my prayers.

[Dorothy39]

Oh Poor Molly~ I feel so bad for you too BC_Mom :(


Borzoimom and Catlady711 ~ You both offered great replies and I value all your imformation!!!!

Molly, I Will Keep You in my Prayers Today- I Hope You are Feeling Sooooo Much Better ---Soon !!!!

[BC_MoM]

“Speed is not a legitimate goal in surgery. Doing a careful, meticulous job is the real goal.”

Very true.

Molly's gone to the HS, I have class so I couldn't go with her.

I have mixed feelings about her getting the tests done there, but can you argue with free vet care???

:confused:

[ramanth]

Poor Molly. :( I hope the vet can figure out the cause of her pain.

[borzoimom]

Sometimes, if they were coming into season, or going out of it, and the surgery is done, the hormon system either takes longer to check itsself back, or can even get "stuck" to a point. Red raspberry- a half a capsule for a dog about 30 pounds, and half a cranberry capsule which moves the fluid will help immensely.This is given at both feedings a day.
Please go to the vet anyway. Red raspberry is excellent for the female dogs hormone system- fully present or not. Cranberry is obvious.
I am concerned there is an underriding infection. None of which can be solved any other way other than antibiotics.
Please keep us posted, and you and her will be in my prayers.
YOu can pick up both supplements at any drug store in teh vitamin aisle, and relatively cheap as well. Lets hold on the b complex until we are sure there isnt any infection here. B complex is excellent for the hormone system, however, if she has an infection, it puts stress on the kidneys that are trying to flush the toxin from her body..

[pitc9]

Oh the poor thing!! :(
I hope things get figured out soon!

[molucass]

I'll send lots of good vibes Molly's way and hope they finally find out the cause of her problems.

[dukedogsmom]

Good luck Molly! Sending lots of good vibes your way. I hope you can be a happy, healthy dog soon.

[borzoimom]

How did it go?

[Dorothy39]

How did it go?


I scampered back to pet talk, thinking that BC_Mom had posted an up date ~

We're Praying for your Dear Molly, can you tell? :o

[BC_MoM]

Thanks for the prayers. :)

Here's an update for those of you who care to read it:

Apparently all the tests today were inconclusive. Basically, I guess, they want her to go in next week again so they can do them again and compare to this weeks.

There was nothing to show in any of the tests things that you would find in results of a pregnant dog.

Nor was there a sign of infection. :confused:

But when they did the urinary swab (that's what my Dad called it - they may have called it something else) they did find traces of blood.

I wish I would have gone, because I'm not sure what any of this really means.

Sounds to me like they're trying to make sure that this doesn't turn out to be an incomplete spay so that they don't look bad (maybe that's just me though - because I don't support them).

[borzoimom]

Thanks for the prayers. :)

Here's an update for those of you who care to read it:

Apparently all the tests today were inconclusive. Basically, I guess, they want her to go in next week again so they can do them again and compare to this weeks.

There was nothing to show in any of the tests things that you would find in results of a pregnant dog.

Nor was there a sign of infection. :confused:

But when they did the urinary swab (that's what my Dad called it - they may have called it something else) they did find traces of blood.

I wish I would have gone, because I'm not sure what any of this really means.

Sounds to me like they're trying to make sure that this doesn't turn out to be an incomplete spay so that they don't look bad (maybe that's just me though - because I don't support them).
Okay- get some cranberry capsules from CVS/drugstore/walmart. GIve her a full one first dose ( one full capsule)- then later 1/2 capsule in both feedings. Blood in the urine swipe could be a lot of things, including a stone that will pass. The cranberry will help alot!!! Also- get pedialyte- non flavored- for one day- one half water- one half pedialyte- after that just a little like a half a cup .. What this does is give the cranberry the electrolights it needs to work quicker..
Thank you for posting- we have all been worried!!! You have my pm and my instant messanger id if you need me.. Both are in prayers honey..

[Dorothy39]

No sign of an "Infection"~ gasp!!! says Dorothy~

So, what is "traces of blood" huh? :confused:

It certainly " lights up the old question bulb" , I tend to agree with your confusion ~

My mind would be Wandering too~ :rolleyes:

How is Molly doing now?

[BC_MoM]

Thanks you two.

Borzoimom, I'll check out the capsules tonight at work. Thanks.

Molly's fine right now - a little stressed and tuckered out from the ''excitement'' today.

[borzoimom]

Thanks you two.

Borzoimom, I'll check out the capsules tonight at work. Thanks.

Molly's fine right now - a little stressed and tuckered out from the ''excitement'' today.
Those capsules are cheap. I pull them apart and dump into the food. And they work. Keep us posted.

[Husky_mom]

what awful is to know they don´t know for sure.........

try that cranberry........it´s very useful.......I´ve seen it work........

hopefully it´s just that.......even if it´s very painful, but hopefully it´s nothing more serious..........hoping Molly gets better in no time.......((hugs))

[Queen of Poop]

I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier today. I read your post and prayed for Molly but was otherwise occupied with Sebastian and trying to book his appointment to be PTS tomorrow. The explanations are very, very vague, perhaps you can call them and ask for more detail? Cranberry is a wonderful thing, give it a shot. I hope Molly feels better soon.

[BC_MoM]

Thanks, Dad. He didn't share everything.

So they DIDN'T do bloodwork (they said they were going to. Leave it to THEM to change their minds.)

The hood on her vulva is very large, they said it can lead to problems down the road.



But see what ticks me off? Dad never explains things - he doesn't remember them. So I only have half of the information. This is frustrating!

[borzoimom]

Dad???

[Dorothy39]

Thanks, Dad. He didn't share everything.

So they DIDN'T do bloodwork (they said they were going to. Leave it to THEM to change their minds.)

The hood on her vulva is very large, they said it can lead to problems down the road.



But see what ticks me off? Dad never explains things - he doesn't remember them. So I only have half of the information. This is frustrating!


Call that Vet~ Speak up Bc_Mom!!! ;)

[Catlady711]

If it was me I'd call them and find out first hand what they actually said.

If indeed they are talking about doing a swab kinda sounds like they're doing a 'culture' to check for infection?

Hope you get answers soon so this problem can be taken care of.

[dukedogsmom]

I would call them, also. You need to get tough with those people. Sounds like they're not doing a very good job. I'd almost think it would be better just to take her to your vet, even if you did have to pay, you know?

[K9karen]

Honestly, I always make someone tag along with me to the doctors. I swear, they can explain everything and it's a blur when I walk out the door, or I forget important questions, although I may have written them down!

I would call and get the explanation myself. And I know the vet care was free, but you know the old saying.."You get what you pay for"..so maybe call your regular vet and get a 2nd opinion. That way you can nip the problem in the bud, which is a lot better than Molly's problem becoming a huge emergency and cause her great pain and distress.

Prayers continuing for the sweet girl. What we females don't have to go through! :rolleyes:

[BC_MoM]

You can say again! Why can't men suffer? :p I blame it all on Eve!

I was speaking to a friend who used to be a vet tech at the humane society - she said they do 30 to 40 speuters a day before noon; there's bound to be mistakes.

She also said they will do whatever they can to cover up an incomplete spay - and that no matter WHAT - they will never admit to making a mistake.

I feel like contacting the local newspaper. Should I?

[labmomma]

Are you close to a reputable veterinary school? I had a wonderful experience with the Virginia Tech Small Animal Clinic when I went with my friend. Their equipment is the latest, the staff extremely knowledgeable and owner friendly. Have you considered a second opinion if you're not satisfied with the info you're being given? Good luck with Molly and I hope she soons feels better and gets well. BTW, if the vet is reputable and can't come up with the answer they should be referring you anyway.
Labmomma X 2

[Reachoutrescue]

I have followed this thread, but have not responded yet. I am so sorry this is happening to your dear Molly. I sure hope she gets better soon. Please don't let them get away with this....you should contact the paper or the news! They need to be stopped before they do this to more and more animals.... Good luck and please keep us posted.

[buttercup132]

I feel like contacting the local newspaper. Should I? But would that deture people from adopting?

I hope you find out what is wrong with Molly, I agree with you though I think it sounds like a incomplete spay.

[BC_MoM]

Sorry if any of this seems rude or irrational, but I'm extremely upset right now. Read the update below.


But would that deture people from adopting?

It may. But the humane society would be bringing it on themselves. We can resolve this quietly, but if they're going to cover up an incomplete spay, they better get ready for a good PUBLIC bashing.

After all the "good" media they are getting in the newspapers, I'm sure one of the reporters would LOVE to do negative article about them!!

Another update::

So there was a trail of blood in the kitchen tonight leading down to the stairs. There was some on my sock, too. I took off my sock - it's not my blood. I go find Molly and she's in my room on my bed licking herself, and crying.

I checked all over both dogs - no blood. I asked my siblings - neither of them had been bleeding (you never know in this family who scraped some skin).

Molly's really irritated lately, and has been snappy. So I'm thinking maybe it's from her "heat".

Sally was talking to a vet tech the other night about Molly, who said that the humane society will never admit to an incomplete spay.

We'll wait for the next set of results from them next week and if I'm not satisfied, I'm getting testing done at MY vet and I'm going to the papers if it's confirmed she has an incomplete spay.

I'm a little upset right now - I really can't stand our humane society for oh-so many reasons right now. But this one really bothers me.

[luvofallhorses]

Is this the humane society you volunteer at, Jessica? I hope Molly is feeling her usual self soon. :)

[BC_MoM]

It's the one I volunteered at. I stopped because I didn't agree with many things they were doing. I don't support them anymore.

[luvofallhorses]

oh, I see and understand completely. I just hope she is better soon. :( give her a hug for me, please. :) I hope you guys get to the bottom of this why she is feeling so rotten. (((hugs to you and Molly!!)))

[borzoimom]

pming you...

[K9karen]

This jolts my memory of situations by friends, who adopted dogs from the HSUS and were lied to about temperment, health....

I personally find the local SPCA's much better.

Oh please see your own vet soon. If the poor dear is bleeding, crying, snappy and plain miserable, get another opinion (in writing), take it to the HSUS so you have a leg to stand on. I'm sure their egos will never admit to wrongdoing so you want to cover all your bases. You can't accuse them of anything in the media without backup.

I say take it to the media when you have proper documentation. I'll tell you what. My biggest mistake (due to being zoned out) was NOT taking my dog attack to the media. Not to harm the dogs, but to teach their owners a lesson in responsibility. If I don't adequately win my lawsuit, you may read about me because it's all public record.
Not to mention I never got an apology and I'm madder than he$$.

[bell_peaches]

I will keep her in my prayers. Praying she has a speed recovery.

[BC_MoM]

Molly goes in Friday morning for her second set of testing.

Found out that when they did the urinalysis last week that they had to get urine from the SNOW, so it was diluted and they couldn't test concentration, they could only test for infection. :rolleyes:

I'll suggest letting ME catch the pee on Friday - Molly won't shy from me.

I'll be skipping school Friday to go with Molly so that I get ALL of the information this time.

More, strong, heartfelt PT prayers would be very much appreciated again. :) I just want to find out the problem and fix it!

[borzoimom]

In prayers for sure.
Do you know how to express the urine for an analysis? Or maybe the vet can..

[BC_MoM]

In prayers for sure.
Do you know how to express the urine for an analysis? Or maybe the vet can..

No, I have no idea. OUR vet has always successfully catched urine from Molly when she is "going".

The humane society just lacks talent. LOL

[borzoimom]

No, I have no idea. OUR vet has always successfully catched urine from Molly when she is "going".

The humane society just lacks talent. LOL
Sounds like it to me.. I just hope she is okay.
I can do it, but worried about typing it and having it misinterputed. Its not hard, but it has a feel to it. You have my total support and prayers!

[pitc9]

Tons of prayers and hugs to you and Molly.
I hope everything goes well and you finally get answers!

[lv4dogs]

Good luck at the vets this friday.

If for some reason they still don't have any results for you by then PLEASE get her yo your regular vet, the poor thing sounds miserable. If your vet finds any thing that may be related to the HS get a lawyer and dispute it that way. Top priority should be that Molly gets taken care of first, regardless of who pays for it up front.

I wish I was on PT more often so I could keep up with this. I wish yous the best of luck.

[Vela]

I really jope everything turns out okay but if it were my dog I wouldn't take her to someone who I thought screwed up in the first place, I would go to your everyday vet and have them try to help her. If they didn't do someting right the first time, they most likely won't admit it, and therefore I wouldn't trust them and let my dog be taken care of by them again.

[BC_MoM]

Yeah, we feel the same. But You can't say no to free vet care. After Christmas Molly will be going to our normal vet for the same testing.

I was just thinking --- this HAS to be an incomplete spay ... because she had a false pregnancy and even LACTATED during it.

[ChrisH]

Prayers on the way.

[borzoimom]

Prayers on the way honey! ( and btw- congrats on your new crate..)

[Anita Cholaine]

Poor Molly, I've just seen this thread... I'll keep her in my thoughts and prayers.
I hope they find out what's exactly the problem on Friday, so that they can make her feel better ASAP ;)

[Daisy and Delilah]

Poor Molly!! I'm sending thoughts and prayers out to all of you :( Get well Molly!!

[molucass]

I'll be thinking of Molly tomorrow..Hopefully they can figure out what's wrong.

[BC_MoM]

Went in today for second round of testing. We told her we had found blood spots on the floor around the house and she asked what it looked like... we said it looked like BLOOD. :rolleyes:

They first did a vaginal swab and there was a lot of blood. I don't know what she did, but she came back out and said they would take her, and since they had time, they would do another spaying.

She said while they're in heat is the best time (Uh, I've always heard it's NOT good). She also said that some dogs are born with extra ovarian tissue and sometimes some gets left behind and seeds into other tissue (what a load of crock!!! She's just trying to cover her @$$).

So Molly's in surgery right now. I won't be able to see her until I get off work at 11:00 tonight, so please pray for her extra hard today.. I'm nervous. :(

[borzoimom]

pm'ing you and in prayers.. Actually that can happen.. pm on the way ..

[Catty1]

Prayers and hugs for you and your Molly girl!

[Daisy and Delilah]

More thoughts and prayers going out for Molly and the rest of the family. Get better Molly!!

[Queen of Poop]

Prayers for Molly that they get it right this time. Poor baby. Give her lots of luvs when she gets home.

[pitc9]

Many hugs to you!!!

[borzoimom]

Any word yet? :confused:

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

I'm sure Molly will be just fine, try not to worry too much - I know it's hard. I hope they get it right this time!

[Ginger's Mom]

Prayers going out for Molly today.

[My Peanuts]

Prayers on the way for Molly, when you can please give us an update.

[Catlady711]

Personally, I wouldn't care if the vet care was free, I'd sooner take my pet to a qualified vet I trust and then bill the spay clinic for the costs if it's discovered to have been a botched spay. Sometimes you get what you pay for.



Went in today for second round of testing. We told her we had found blood spots on the floor around the house and she asked what it looked like... we said it looked like BLOOD. :rolleyes: (

We ask questions like that at work sometimes. It's not as ridiculous as it first appears. What we're wanting to know is it dark/light colored blood, watered down blood, blood with other colors/mucus in it. Apparently to the vet it makes a big difference at times.



They first did a vaginal swab and there was a lot of blood. I don't know what she did, but she came back out and said they would take her, and since they had time, they would do another spaying. (

If they didn't at least suspect that it was an incomplete spay then you'd think they would have called it 'exploratory surgery' rather than admit to incomplete spaying. Guess they got themselves on that one.

Copied from http://www.veterinarypartner.com/ (http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=PRINT&A=602)

a low cost clinic must perform a high volume of surgeries each day. This limits the individual attention a patient can receive if an “assembly line” approach is used. Often these are the situations where only the ovaries are removed and the uterus is left behind so as to save time or where the entire spay is performed through a tiny incision only a half inch or so long so as to save time closing (and sacrifice inspection of the abdomen for bleeding).



She said while they're in heat is the best time (Uh, I've always heard it's NOT good). (

Being in heat is the WORST time to spay. Not only is the surgery more difficult because the organs are all swelled up, and the blood vessles are larger, but it also increases the chance of an incomplete spay because the parts are harder to see.



She also said that some dogs are born with extra ovarian tissue and sometimes some gets left behind and seeds into other tissue (what a load of crock!!! She's just trying to cover her @$$).

I have read something previously about extra ovaries/ovarian tissue, however from what I'd read the condition is rare. I don't remember reading anything about it 'seeding' into other tissue though. I appologize that I can't find the link to the article I read, I believe it was either by JAVMA or AAHA but I can't remember. :(


I hope the second surgery goes ok and your furbaby does alot better this time. Keep us updated.

[Dorothy39]

I've read and re-read this Molly thread~ and I will keep your Molly girl in my Prayers BC_MOM~

I sure do hope this second surgury will see her through~

[BC_MoM]

Notes from the vet who did the spay:


"Explority surgery was done:
Found left ovary intact + was removed"

And guess who did it?? The same vet who did it last time!! How could a vet leave a WHOLE ovary behind?!?!?!

Molly's hope.. and very exhausted.

Mom phoned to find out more details, and the vet asst. said that she probably grew at third ovary.... WHATEVER. :rolleyes:

I don't know where we're going from here, but we're going to do something about this.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

That's ridiculous. I doubt she grew a third - and like you, I can't believe a vet would/could leave an ovary inside. I'm glad to hear that it's out now though and that Molly won't have to go through any more false pregnancies and such.

[Anita Cholaine]

I had never heard about a dog growing a third ovary before, it sounds a bit weird to me. And if the vet actually left it intact the first time... :rolleyes: I just don't know what to say.

I'm glad to know that the surgery is done and Molly will start recovering, that's the most important thing.

[borzoimom]

I have never heard of a 3rd ovary- no clue!!!
Well I am glad she is home! Give her a gentle hug from us..

[Dorothy39]

Brother~ That's a whooper for sure~ A third Ovary, Yeah--- okay :o

However, I'm so glad to find this up date~ Give Molly Girl some Hugs from all of us . We sure do Hope that she feels better and better, with each New Day~

[cyber-sibes]

Well, whatever created the condition, at least now hopefully Molly will get better and stay that way (no 4th 5th or 6th ovaries we hope ;) ) Hugs to your precious girl!

[ramanth]

Geez! I hope Molly is recovering okay. *hugs* to her.

[countrycowgirl]

sorry I have been gone from PT for a little while so I am just now reading this! ...poor molly! I am so sorry that you and her have had to go through this! but it sounds like hopefully everything has been fixed and she will be feeling loads better!.... :)



She said while they're in heat is the best time (Uh, I've always heard it's NOT good).
them saying this distrubes me! I work at a Vet clinic and the doc always askes them to bring there dog in perferably before their first heat or when they are not in heat because it is very risky for the dog their organs are swollen and they loose a ton of blood so it is harder for them to recover...so either they are trying to cover something up or they don't know what they are talking about hmm idk it just sounds fishy!

[BC_MoM]

it just sounds fishy!

You're not the first person to say that! :(

[animal_rescue]

UGH that is rediculous!

Poor Molly, I hope she's recovering well.. :(

[candledeb]

Hello
I just read about your Molly and am so sorry to hear about this botched surgery! I think my dog has also had a botched spay. I adopted her from the Humane Society last Monday (the 18th) and noticed today that she is bleeding and is swollen too! I have called the vet at the shelter and have an appointment this afternoon, but they also said to get a urine sample because she may have a urinary tract infection. Is that what happened to you too? Please send me an email if you can. Thanks so much.

Debbie
[email protected]

[pitc9]

A third Ovary?!? Give me a flipping break!! :rolleyes:
That's the Dr's way of trying to cover up his own mistake.

I'm so glad this is now all behind you and Molly!!
I hope she's already started to feel better!!

[Riptide]

This vet is absalutely ridiculous! 3rd ovary? Come ON.

Prayers for Molly still headed your way :(

[Queen of Poop]

I hope Molly is recovering well from her surgery. That vet should not be practicing. A third ovary??? That is ridiculous. Please give Molly a hug and kiss from me. I do hope her ordeal is over now.

[kimlovescats]

I am just now seeing this thread today for the first time! (Sorry, I'm bad about not visiting Dog General often enough.) I am so very sorry that your poor Molly has had to suffer all of these months for NOTHING! I am also sorry that you and your family have had to worry about her all of this time as well. It definitely sounds like this vet is very incompetent. I think some times the "less desirable" vets are the ones who get the low-cost clinic jobs! :( I am glad that Molly came through her surgery and I hope and pray that she is doing well today!

Hugs,
Kim

[BC_MoM]

Thank you, Kim. And everyone. :)

Molly's has been recovering well. The vet did say that the head on her vulva is very large and may possibly cause problems down the road - what kind of problems, I have no idea. Any ideas?

Her incision is almost completely healed and she should be ready for flyball on the 7th.

I really want to take some kind of action on the Humane Society for this - especially for denying and not admitting to their stupid mistakes, but I have no idea if there is anything we can do.