I think I might..just might...

[belterv]

http://wwww.petfinder.com/fotos/KY08/KY08.6788551-1-x.jpg
Adopt this guy! Sandy would love a friend, esspecialy one close to her own breed.
Notes: 'Lish' is a 11 month old, medium size sweetie. He was bred for drug work, but didn't pass the tests. He is very mild and laid back and easy going. He loves kids, other dogs, and is good in the house. He is shy about new, or suspecious things, but is quick to over come. He has had some basic obedience, and needs a kind home.
He sounds perfect!!

[borzoimom]

Honey- any dog that passed the preliminary tests to be a drug dog- never mind finishing is still a very active dog. He would not have even been considering if he were " laid back" etc. Malanois are also by nature more of the high strung of the Belgiums, need lots of exercise and a job to do. You really need to meet him, spend some time with him. They dont even take dogs to do the tests until they have met enough of a criteria to make it worth to spend the time to test them. Wonderful breed, but they need a job, lots of exercise as I said, and someone that is willing to do training to keep the mind stimulated. I know you have a Terv already, but keep this all in mind. They have more energy than the Belgiums, and the Tervs..

[Danegirl2208]

Honey- any dog that passed the preliminary tests to be a drug dog- never mind finishing is still a very active dog. He would not have even been considering if he were " laid back" etc. Malanois are also by nature more of the high strung of the Belgiums, need lots of exercise and a job to do. You really need to meet him, spend some time with him. They dont even take dogs to do the tests until they have met enough of a criteria to make it worth to spend the time to test them. Wonderful breed, but they need a job, lots of exercise as I said, and someone that is willing to do training to keep the mind stimulated. I know you have a Terv already, but keep this all in mind. They have more energy than the Belgiums, and the Tervs..


very well said! I completly agree

[Vela]

Do you live in Kentucky? I thought you lived in California, because you friend from california, Pug 123, said she rode your horse patches all the time...but i don't think they will adopt a dog from Kentucky to california or washington?

The dog is on Petfinder here, in Kentucky

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6788551

In the thread below Pug 123 she says you guys ride your horse all the time but shes in california?

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=99281

she says: "Hey Haley! This is Sunni, everyone, Haley is one of my bestfriends. We ride her horse, Patches all the time... if you knew him you'd love him like everyone he's met does! Her dog Sandy is a sweetie, too Alli and Sandy love playing. Anyway, welcome to Pet Talk, Haley! Glad you decided to join! Are you enjoying it here so far? I'm so glad you came... it's GREAT here!"


In the below thread you say you live in Washington...

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=117233&page=2&pp=15

post #26 you say :

The place that usually has all the rain, and had tons of killer floods just last month, Washington.


Just wondering how it all adds up, I'm confused, sorry. Can't be in 3 places at the same time and most rescue organizations dont adopt across the country and actually I would be very wary of one that did. Maybe you can find a dog closer to home? That way if there are any problems you can return it to the rescue and not just to a shelter.

[areias]

Wow, he's a long way away from you, too. I would go for something a bit closer so you aren't spending the money on shipping. A plane ride from KY to WA might be a little stressful for him, especially since he's shy. Do they adopt to people out of the area? How would they do a home visit? If they wouldn't do a home visit on a dog like this, I wouldn't adopt from them, personally. Like the others said...a dog bred for any of the police work is usually VERY intense, demanding, and you can run into a whole mess of issues trying to keep it as a house pet, versus a dog that is bred for pet or show. We had a black malanois at the kennel I used to work for that was kept there for border patrol, and she was extremely intelligent and ALWAYS on her feet, she never took 'naps', she did figure 8's the whole day in her kennel.

Anyways, if you do get him, good luck! He is very handsome.

[areias]

Do you live in Kentucky? I thought you lived in California, because you friend from california, Pug 123, said she rode your horse patches all the time...but i don't think they will adopt a dog from Kentucky to california or washington?

Just wondering how it all adds up? Can't be in 3 places at the same time and most shelters dont adopt across the country.


I guess we posted at the same time :p . Also she said in this post...
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=1676972#post1676972

Never to buy from a "washington" pet store.

I believe Zoomer was from WA too, her location used to say "Where it rains all the time".

[borzoimom]

Areias is right. A dog contributed into a drug program or even the seeing eye in Morristown NJ usually goes back to the contributor. Even if the dog came from a shelter originally, they will place- but they would not have take a dog that is laid back. If you live out of state, which looks like you do, they would not let you adopt the dog. You also need to spend a considerable amount of time with the dog one on one to make sure this would work, and I am sure that would be impossible to do.
If you are looking for a dog, look into your local area. And remember, any adoptee needs alot of time, training, and patience.

[GreyhoundGirl]

Look, he sounds like a wonderful dog, and I know we're friends, but I, too, am looking for an explanation as to Vela's post... :) I'm not particularly good at geographie, but I don't think they'll adopt that far away.

[mr.chiwawa]

I think you should do it!!! There are many days I wish I got another chi for the one I have at home now. Cause they can be soo lonely and there is only so much playing I can do with him. So I stand behind you 120 % Do it Do it DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

[Husky15]

What a gorgeous man he is.

But Vela does make a point. Sounds fishy to me.

[GreyhoundGirl]

Honey- any dog that passed the preliminary tests to be a drug dog- never mind finishing is still a very active dog. He would not have even been considering if he were " laid back" etc. Malanois are also by nature more of the high strung of the Belgiums, need lots of exercise and a job to do. You really need to meet him, spend some time with him. They dont even take dogs to do the tests until they have met enough of a criteria to make it worth to spend the time to test them. Wonderful breed, but they need a job, lots of exercise as I said, and someone that is willing to do training to keep the mind stimulated. I know you have a Terv already, but keep this all in mind. They have more energy than the Belgiums, and the Tervs..

I third that. Very well said. :)

[dogzr#1]

Wow, Bmom and Vela said everything I wanted to!

BorzoiMom said something that I agree with, a second Terv may be a bit hard for someone who isn't really experienced with the breed to control. Perhaps another not so hyper dog breed.

Vela also made some very good points. Seems a bit fishy to me...

[Alysser]

Vela also made some very good points. Seems a bit fishy to me...

I could agree more. I've been suspicious for awhile.

[borzoimom]

Honey we are not picking on you. I just want you to understand what a drug dog candidate is. That is why so often they use shelter dogs, because the dogs were given up for being hyper or object driven like a ball or toy. Even deciding if they want to try the dog to take the tests, they look for obsessions in dogs that would make a household stark raving crazy. As posted above, even a candidate is a constant mover- and this is a breed that already naturally does.
I know you love his looks, and think you are helping. But it is better for him to go into a home that can channel this energy- and its not your lack of skill, its whats right for this perticular dog, and what is right for your baby you have. You posted a picture of yourself- and you have a lovely dog. I have yet to hear anything about being hyper etc. A Malanoise is a more high strung as I said- and this dog sounds strange to be laid back but failed the tests- they dont have time to test dogs that arent not object possession crazy- they are far from laid back. And even only the best of that group actually make the grade.
Somebody is pulling your leg here.. Big time!!!

[belterv]

Nevermind, my parents said no anyway.

And yes, I do know Sunni (aka Dogpug123) I lived in CA for a while and then moved to WA, so I have practicly lived her all my life. And I go visit her at least 6 times a year and ride her horses. I live in WA. Borzoimom, Vela is picking at me, she is saying I am "fishy". I knew I shouldnt have bothered coming back, particularly because of some people like her. One of the only reasons I came back is cuz of people like you.

[borzoimom]

Nevermind, my parents said no anyway.

And yes, I do know Sunni (aka Dogpug123) I lived in CA for a while and then moved to WA, so I have practicly lived her all my life. And I go visit her at least 6 times a year and ride her horses. I live in WA. Borzoimom, Vela is picking at me, she is saying I am "fishy". I knew I shouldnt have bothered coming back, particularly because of some people like her. One of the only reasons I came back is cuz of people like you.
Honey- I dont think Vela is picking on you. No one had any idea you had moved, and thank you for that update.
I think she meant the situation was fishy. She knew as well as I did that a dog doesnt even go into drug detection unless its already a hyper dog. They would not even look at the dog.
I dont know this dogpug123 person.. No clue. Either I wasnt here yet or I missed it. But someone elses problems of what they did or did not do is not my problem. We do not know all things about people and its not our place to judge. She wasnt saying any of that. She was confused because of the change in locations. Now we understand...
You know as well as I do on the other forum people come on and well you know.. ( remember clds?)... It might help if people let others know they had moved but quite frankly- where someone lives is not really a piece of information- it just caused confusion- thats all----- pure and simple.
I hate to say this but I am glad your parents said no.. I think the post on the dog didnt add up and had nothing to do with you. You saw the face of the dog, and its similar to your breed and thought- thats the dog... But your dog is so pretty and as I said, I havent heard a thing about your dog being hyper- this would have been a mistake. Take time- and if you need my help finding an addition to your family= WITH YOUR PARENTS CONSENT ( please I dont need a mad mother at me... lol. ) then I can help you find another Belgium or a Terv. I really would not do a Malanoise unless you have a ton of time to use up. They are great dogs- but really more hyper than the other two..

[wolfsoul]

Doesn't look like a malinois to me -- if it's a purebred Belgian I'd say it's a terv. Tervs out of mal lines often have shorter coats -- at the same time, a terv out of mal lines is typically European and those ears are not typical European ears. I'd say it's a Belgian mix. Not sure if it's been discussed, just keep seeing the word malinois pop up..

There is a terv near Seattle looking for a home. Lower energy as she has bad knees -- rescue is still raising money for her surgery as far as I know.

[borzoimom]

Not enough coat to be a Terv. http://www.american-belgian-malinois-club.org/malstand.htm

[wolfsoul]

Not enough coat to be a Terv.

Not true at all -- tervs out of mal or working lines often have short coats.

These are all Belgian tervuren...
http://www.mindspring.com/%7Eskyhighbel/driven3_091805.JPG
http://www.spritebelgians.com/images/isis/isisherd3.jpg
http://www.spritebelgians.com/images/cisu/cisu_side14m.jpg
http://www.spritebelgians.com/images/reka/raika-stack-16m.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~fanfaretervs/images/lyric18wks2.jpg

[areias]

On the pet finder page it says Shepherd/Tervuren.

It also says that the dog was "bred" to do drug work..not that it was trained to do so, it probably didn't have the personality. But it dosen't really add up to why the dog would be hosted on pet finder under a rescue group...most police dog organizations have a waiting list for rejected dogs.

Anyways, like I said, I don't think they would have allowed you to have him across the country. I'm sure you can find something closer.

[shais_mom]

I am a bit confused also
there was a post from zoomer about wild dogs saying it was at her friend's house I assumed they were HER dogs but apparently not -
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=104984&highlight=wild+dogs

so confused

[borzoimom]

Not true at all -- tervs out of mal or working lines often have short coats.

These are all Belgian tervuren...
http://www.mindspring.com/%7Eskyhighbel/driven3_091805.JPG
http://www.spritebelgians.com/images/isis/isisherd3.jpg
http://www.spritebelgians.com/images/cisu/cisu_side14m.jpg
http://www.spritebelgians.com/images/reka/raika-stack-16m.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~fanfaretervs/images/lyric18wks2.jpg
I know the pictures and you are right- but this a male. Much more likely to have more coat than a female. The accepted coat in the US in a Terv is much more shorter than accepted in other countries.
I just saw the post on this being a mix. This would explain the ears.
However- doesnt matter though as her parents said no...
I am still getting use to those outside the US seperating this breed differently than we do. Here this would be a Malinois- .. Even a Belgium ( our black variety) can produce Terv puppies. Its registered just that way too... The Malinois here is coatless- including the tail. Its strange- I guess like the Norfolk and the Norwich- still capable of producing varieties within the breed itself ...
Well I guess if we can have ASCOB cockers in black cocker litters and parti colored- I guess so.. I am waiting for the next turn in breed recognition with the Red and White setter- accepted in other countries as an Irish Setter, but here the Irish is only red, with the red and white making another breed/variety.

[wolfsoul]

On the pet finder page it says Shepherd/Tervuren.

It also says that the dog was "bred" to do drug work..not that it was trained to do so, it probably didn't have the personality. But it dosen't really add up to why the dog would be hosted on pet finder under a rescue group...most police dog organizations have a waiting list for rejected dogs.

Ah thanks, I thought it was a terv mix.

I didn't think that there was a strong need for rejected dogs. My friend trains and rehomes SAR dogs and has one heck of a time doing so. One female she's had since July and still hasn't found anyone interested. I know for certain that retired dogs are generally put into rescue or shelters, but I'm not sure of what happens to most younger rejected dogs.

[borzoimom]

I am a bit confused also
there was a post from zoomer about wild dogs saying it was at her friend's house I assumed they were HER dogs but apparently not -
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=104984&highlight=wild+dogs

so confused
Belterv= what is she talking about? Was this before you moved??? Help me out here as I am coming in the back end of this..

[borzoimom]

You are right! So does the Morristown Seeing Eye school..

On the pet finder page it says Shepherd/Tervuren.

It also says that the dog was "bred" to do drug work..not that it was trained to do so, it probably didn't have the personality. But it dosen't really add up to why the dog would be hosted on pet finder under a rescue group...most police dog organizations have a waiting list for rejected dogs.

Anyways, like I said, I don't think they would have allowed you to have him across the country. I'm sure you can find something closer.

[wolfsoul]

I know the pictures and you are right- but this a male. Much more likely to have more coat than a female. The accepted coat in the US in a Terv is much more shorter than accepted in other countries.

The first two pictures are of males. ;) A short coated terv is still a short coated terv regardless of sex -- it all depends on the genetics. A terv out of two mals is likely to have a shorter coat. Lack of coat isn't really more "accepted" in the US -- it's just more common to find a dog lacking coat in the show ring. In Europe, with the amount of Belgians out there, one wouldn't even bother showing a shorter coated dog.


Here is another terv out of mal lines, a female..
http://www.tarkatan.com/uma/uma2p.jpg
And a male terv from working lines..
http://www.etulinjan.com/my_dogs/killi/origs/Killi17.jpg
http://www.etulinjan.com/my_dogs/killi/Killi_02.jpg

[areias]

You are getting a PM, borzoimom :)

[areias]

I find this kind of intruiging (sp?). Don't know too much about these breeds. How could two mals create a terv? What would make it a terv? Under what breed would it be registered?

[borzoimom]

Opps I am sorry honey- I am sooooooooo past my bed time- .. I am sorry- you are right... We just do the breed differently here based on coat totally..

The first two pictures are of males. ;) A short coated terv is still a short coated terv regardless of sex -- it all depends on the genetics. A terv out of two mals is likely to have a shorter coat. Lack of coat isn't really more "accepted" in the US -- it's just more common to find a dog lacking coat in the show ring. In Europe, with the amount of Belgians out there, one wouldn't even bother showing a shorter coated dog.


Here is another terv out of mal lines, a female..
http://www.tarkatan.com/uma/uma2p.jpg
And a male terv from working lines..
http://www.etulinjan.com/my_dogs/killi/origs/Killi17.jpg
http://www.etulinjan.com/my_dogs/killi/Killi_02.jpg

[borzoimom]

I find this kind of intruiging (sp?). Don't know too much about these breeds. How could two mals create a terv? What would make it a terv? Under what breed would it be registered?
The breeds are seperated by variety in this country. In other words- a colored bull terrier could produce white bull terriers. A ASCOB ( any other color other than black) could produce a black cocker. etc. The Irish setter in this country has long been established as only red- however in other countries they accept the red and white variety. The Belgiums as a groups do have seperate breeds in other countries but seperated only by coat types or colors. However for generations they were not seperated so it is feasable and happens a Belgium ( the black ones here in the US ) can produce a Terv ( the sable variety type) in a litter- and seperated so. My first belgium Chancey had a Terv litter mate.. And registered as such as the AKC recognizes the coat color ( black or sable) or type ( malinois) can be produced from each other. Its rare- but it happens.

[wolfsoul]

I find this kind of intruiging (sp?). Don't know too much about these breeds. How could two mals create a terv? What would make it a terv? Under what breed would it be registered?
The different varieties of Belgians are only recognised as seperate breeds by AKC. :) So in every other registry in the world, the varieties are allowed to be interbred, and are registered as the same breed (Belgian shepherd dog). In AKC, with the amount of one-variety breeding they do, it's not as likely that you will get something different than what you'd planned, though it does happen! Moreso with tervs popping up in groenendael (black) litters.

Short coat is dominant, and long coat is recessive -- so breeding two malinois that carry the recessive longcoat gene will result in a tervuren. It will be fluffier than it's littermates but may grow up to look exactly like a malinois (usually with a softer, finer coat), a tervuren (with a coarser more dense coat), or something in between (which would still be called a tervuren). Mostly you'll get something with long feathers, tail, ear tufts, etc, but the rest of the coat is not as long.

I have plans to breed tervuren one day, mostly out of my groenendael -- Visa will be bred to Loki next year who carries terv, so if she carries terv, then we will have some terv pups! Not likely, but atleast 50% of the litter will carry terv if she doesn't. Solo has a 50% chance of carrying terv. I'm going to get a terv from a breeder in the states in a few years. :) Ashley (binka_nugget) is also considering intervariety breeding with her malinois that she is getting next year. She will probably use my Solo as a stud if he turns out nicely. Breeding Solo to a mal would give us black malinois.

[Sevaede]

The different varieties of Belgians are only recognised as seperate breeds by AKC. :) So in every other registry in the world, the varieties are allowed to be interbred, and are registered as the same breed (Belgian shepherd dog). In AKC, with the amount of one-variety breeding they do, it's not as likely that you will get something different than what you'd planned, though it does happen! Moreso with tervs popping up in groenendael (black) litters.

Short coat is dominant, and long coat is recessive -- so breeding two malinois that carry the recessive longcoat gene will result in a tervuren. It will be fluffier than it's littermates but may grow up to look exactly like a malinois (usually with a softer, finer coat), a tervuren (with a coarser more dense coat), or something in between (which would still be called a tervuren). Mostly you'll get something with long feathers, tail, ear tufts, etc, but the rest of the coat is not as long.

I have plans to breed tervuren one day, mostly out of my groenendael -- Visa will be bred to Loki next year who carries terv, so if she carries terv, then we will have some terv pups! Not likely, but atleast 50% of the litter will carry terv if she doesn't. Solo has a 50% chance of carrying terv. I'm going to get a terv from a breeder in the states in a few years. :) Ashley (binka_nugget) is also considering intervariety breeding with her malinois that she is getting next year. She will probably use my Solo as a stud if he turns out nicely. Breeding Solo to a mal would give us black malinois.

Doesn't the FCI exclude one of the Belgian varieties? I know that there are four but my current breed encyclopedia goes by FCI standards (Although it makes other standards known as well) and they only list three of them. I think it's the Terv because I know I saw Groenendaels. I am pretty sure I saw Laekenois but I am probably putting the wrong ones in the wrong order. (I don't have my book on me for reference).

[wolfsoul]

FCI recognises all four varieties -- but AKC does not recognise the laekenois. :) The breed club is trying to get it recognised though.

[borzoimom]

FCI recognises all four varieties -- but AKC does not recognise the laekenois. :) The breed club is trying to get it recognised though.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND I wish they did~

[lute]

FCI recognises all four varieties -- but AKC does not recognise the laekenois. :) The breed club is trying to get it recognised though.
i hope it gets accepted soon! i've never seen a laekenois in real life. they are very unique looking!

[Sevaede]

FCI recognises all four varieties -- but AKC does not recognise the laekenois. :) The breed club is trying to get it recognised though.

Ahh, okay. Thank you for clearing that up with me! :D

You're sure making it hard to not like fluffy black dogs. :p :D