Staffy pup???

[mydogflick]

Hi my dog felicity has just given birth (by C-section) to one single puppy. This is her second litter to the same father and in her last litter she had 8 big boy pups. THis time we have only one very large male pup. I was just wondering if anyone new why this might of happened and also if anyone knows the average weight of a staffy pup at birth? thankyou

[buttercup132]

Why was she bred in the first place?

This might help determine what is wrong.

[mydogflick]

RIGHT????
I take it we are an anti breeding site are we????
Not that I have to justify myself but she was bred in the hope of producing a female pup to carry on her lineage wich my family has owned since 1924 when my grandpa brought his first staffordshire puppy with him when he emmigrated from England.
Having said that does anyone have any usefull answers to help me out or is ALL breeding so Taboo that I should write this site off and try alsewhere?

[lwds]

If the line is so important, I would assume you know what your doing. Isn't this a question for, say, a vet (or someone who knows the breed)? Not an online forum?

Not anti-breeding here, just anti-idiot. :)

Hilarious.

[buttercup132]

No need to get worked up..
Most people on here yes are anti breeding especially if they arent shown
I find that hard to belive that your grandfather brought over the first
Staffie puppy though.
I think that if you have bred and your grandfather did bring the first Staffie
over then your knowlage should be great on the breed, and the genetics
of them. Because of course you wouldnt breed without knowing how
genetics work. And if you guys have owned a pup from each generation
(of people) then you should know the background of the grand parents etc
wich is what would have effected your dog.

[critter crazy]

RIGHT????
I take it we are an anti breeding site are we????
Not that I have to justify myself but she was bred in the hope of producing a female pup to carry on her lineage wich my family has owned since 1924 when my grandpa brought his first staffordshire puppy with him when he emmigrated from England.
Having said that does anyone have any usefull answers to help me out or is ALL breeding so Taboo that I should write this site off and try alsewhere?

If your dog had a cesearean section, wouldnt you have asked the vet why she only had one puppy??? also if you are carrying on a lineage, wouldnt you by now know alkl there is to breeding?? especially since this has been going on since 1924????? seems like you should also know the average weight of a puppy! just an observation!:rolleyes:

[mydogflick]

I have spoken to our vet about this and he could only offer his generalised thoughts as to why only one pup was born . I was just hoping for a couple of opinions from people who I presumed might have something to offer and I therefore would be able to broaden my knowledge. As to the weight of the puppy I know what the textbooks say the average weight is but I again was hoping for some information from people who had hands on knowledge. I am presuming from the responses that I was wrong and maybe I haven chosen the wrong arena if I am expecting any pracitical or positive help? Just a simple "We dont know " would of been appreciated

[mydogflick]

Just t o clear one thing up my grandfather did not bring over the first staffy pup to Australia . Just HIS first pup wich our family including all my brothers and sisters and my cousins all have a relative of . We sont breed to Show we breed to Love

[buttercup132]

We sont breed to Show we breed to LoveAnd that right there is the reason not to breed.
I'm taking it as you have been to other sites that have told you not to
breed because you do it for the wrong reason and that it why you got
worked up so fast. Breeding for temperment is NOT a reason to breed.
I think we need to go back a few generations on you family and re educate
them about breeding. The ONLY reason a dog should be bred is if they
have champion titles.

[buttercup132]

seems like you should also know the average weight of a puppy! just an observation!:rolleyes:Ya I agree

[lwds]

The ONLY reason a dog should be bred is if they have champion titles.

Gonna have to unfortunately disagree with you there. There are breeders who can't even figure out a good Ch. X Ch. breeding. I meet plenty of wonderful examples of my breed who had a parent that didn't show (non-Ch.). The thing is: the breeders know what they are doing. I *love* seeing dogs with Ch. in front of their name also have titles at the end... you can have the beauty but I also want brains.

But yes, breeding soley for pets is irresponsible.

[mydogflick]

buttercup I must say all your pets look loved and yet not one of them looks like a champion why is that??? In fact most dont even look pedigree!!!!
I think its fairly sad that you think of animals as a commodity. Lucky humans dont addopt that line of thinking. Im thinking we wouldnt be having this conversation if they had. How very aryan of you. Once again I am only asking for the OPINIONS of educated and thoughtful doggy friends please no ramblings by kanine right wingers

[lwds]

OP: Get in touch with the breed's club and actually educate yourself.

[lizbud]

I think you people are being very, very rude to this person.You make me
ashamed to think you actually belong to this forum. Shame on you.

I have no idea why some dogs have single pups, but just know that it does
happen.

[molucass]

There is a forum that I am a member of that is a pit bull forum, but not everyone on there only has pit bulls.

There is one particular person on the board that owns and has bred 1 litter of staffy bulls.. Her's are health tested, shown, temperment tested, etc.

The web address to that forum is

www.pitbullforum.com

Maybe she could be of some help.

[lwds]

I think you people are being very, very rude to this person.You make me
ashamed to think you actually belong to this forum. Shame on you.

I'm not nice to BYBs. Sorry.

[buttercup132]

Yes and my dogs are fixed and arent being bred!
They are a mixes and adopted from shelters I didnt get them from
breeders. My kitten I got from a shelter his mom was a rescue as a feral
found running in the streets and gave birth in a foster home and I adopted
him.And my rabbits are both purebred.One I adopted from a shelter and
the other from a breeder whos bunnies have won lots of championships.

[mydogflick]

Thankyou so much to the 2 previouse posts who have been able to act intelligently and curtiously I was beggining to wonder if this site was being run by overly aggressive neanderthals.
Luckily I have learnt to judge the deed not the breed!!!!
I find that its always those who attack that have nothing intelligent to add to a conversation. Thankyou again and I will deffinently lok up these sites

[Suki Wingy]

Most of us here feel that there are enough dogs in shelters to serve as wonderful family pets. If you want something more (like working dogs or show dogs) then breeding is acceptible. Welcome to the forum. I'd like to see pictures of your girl.

[Danegirl2208]

i agree with lizbud..i think some of you are being extremly rude.. mydogflick why dont you introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about you and your dogs? I'm a huge fan of bully breeds, we'd love to see pics if you have any! :D

[mydogflick]

Flatcoat lover my brother has shown 2 of the male pups from our previouse dam.
LWDS both my dog and the stud dogs are KCC registered and of show quality we DONT breed to show as it is not my interest personally. THere are only 2 dogs bred from our lineage that are not desexed and that is my dam and one of my cousins dams. We live in Outback Australia and are not always able to attend Kcc meetings and Staffy club meetings .

Buttercup I looked at your site of all your pets "Rockee is a good Mummy and had a fake pregnancy so you brought her her own pup?????? sounds to me like she has been bred and she is a mutt not at all a champion. Also picking up free kittens from the showgrounds sounds to me like encouraging irresponsible breeding. Please dont judge unless you are an open book willing to be judged as well

[Miss Z]

I was beggining to wonder if this site was being run by overly aggressive neanderthals.


There was no need for that comment.

What began as a few acceptable to questions about how and why you breed has brought out a lot of anger in you. You were very quick to jump to conclusions and also quick to accuse. Perhaps calm your nerve a little and take time to reply politely to others comments and you will be responded to politely.

[Flatcoatluver]

I am guessing that you love staffy's right? Of corse you do or you would not own and breed. How does it make you feel when hundred of PURE and mixes of staffys are put to sleep everynight. I hate to sound crude, but by breeding you are adding to that list.

[buttercup132]

Also picking up free kittens from the showgrounds sounds to me like encouraging irresponsible breeding Obviously you didnt read it properly seeing as I said I ADOPTED him from a SHELTER. I didnt get him for free either I paid $125 for him.

And Ya my parents tried to breed her before they knew about the dogs in shelters etc and they wanted her to have a litter of puppies before she was spayed so either way they still planned on spaying her. Thankfully it didnt work and she had a false pregnency.

[mydogflick]

Miss z you are right I did act aggresively in response to being attacked on my very first thread on this forum and for that I will appologise. I should know better than to treat aggression with aggression.

[mydogflick]

Buttercup I read your story on princess and thoght that it meant that you got the cat free at the show from a petting zoo!!! Is that not correct?? I am not trying to attack you or to say what you have done is wrong but rather to point out to you that people in glass houses shouldnt really be the ones throwing the biggest stones

[luckies4me]

Buttercup I read your story on princess and thoght that it meant that you got the cat free at the show from a petting zoo!!! Is that not correct?? I am not trying to attack you or to say what you have done is wrong but rather to point out to you that people in glass houses shouldnt really be the ones throwing the biggest stones

From what I have read I would say you are correct. ;)

[buttercup132]

Buttercup I read your story on princess and thoght that it meant that you got the cat free at the show from a petting zoo!!! Is that not correct?? I am not trying to attack you or to say what you have done is wrong but rather to point out to you that people in glass houses shouldnt really be the ones throwing the biggest stonesI'm talking about the one in my signature.
The KITTEN. Princess isnt really fully mine she lives at my grandmas
Ya and I got her when I was like 9 from a fair.But I didnt know any better and I'll admitt I probly would even now. I dont think I could leave a bunch of sick kittens at a fair where who knows what could happen to them. People could take them for bait for dog fighting seeing as they were free.

[mydogflick]

flatcoat lover do you not agree with any breeding? And if not wont that just totally wipe out all breeds? I am not exactly sure what I am doing wrong here? Our dogs are all very loved and looked after. We have never sold a puppy to anyone nor do we ever plan to. Our dogs are KCC registered and have no floors ie skin conditions eye problems or hip problems and our girl is always closely monitered by our bet when she is pregnant. I have read all the proper text books and listened to vets and show breeders opinions on how to breed and the reasons behind single births and puppy size and they vary greatly. I was just after a laymans opinion as I tend to value hands on experience and peoples varied opinions as much as those written and learnt from textbooks.

[luckies4me]

I'm talking about the one in my signature.
The KITTEN. Princess isnt really fully mine she lives at my grandmas
Ya and I got her when I was like 9 from a fair.But I didnt know any better and I'll admitt I probly would even now. I dont think I could leave a bunch of sick kittens at a fair where who knows what could happen to them. People could take them for bait for dog fighting seeing as they were free.

I learned a very valuable (why can't I spell today?) lesson not too long ago when the breeder I got Frankie and Halfy from (my disabled doxies) came to me yet again to ask if I would take any of her deformed puppies. This time I said NO! No way! I cannot take her pups everytime something goes wrong. By me taking a pup yet again would just encourage her to breed one more time, because you know, Cass will just take the deformed ones home. :rolleyes: She has since got the male fix and hopefully will fix the female soon as well. This is why I never get dogs or cats from a petshop, they are either abandoned at my work or found somewhere. Then I take them home and fix them all up. :D

[critter crazy]

I appologize for being rude, if I was. But you must agree that your first post was very vague, and sounded like someone who knew nothing about breeding? We are just very protective of animals, and hate to see people breeding dogs for no reason(not saying you are) I would like to hear more about you and your dogs. we love pictures here, so dont be afraid to post any!

[mydogflick]

luckies for me I am also a sucker for disabled or injured animals. Just ask my one eyed shitzu lol. but I agree totally with what you are saying its like the people who buy the baby chimps and moon bears from the overseas markets because they feel sorry for them it just incourages the hunters and poachers to go and get more. Sometimes it takes more courage and is better for the animals as a breed just to walk away

[BC_MoM]

Did you know it's illegal to give health advice over the internet for animals? Go to a vet.

I'm not sure if this applies to all breeds, but all females should be bred to males that are smaller than them.

I don't agree with you breeding this female at all. As you can see, a lot of people on here do not as well.

There's no need to carry on this line - regardless whether it has no floors - just because your grandfather brought the line over.

[buttercup132]

flatcoat lover do you not agree with any breeding? And if not wont that just totally wipe out all breeds? I am not exactly sure what I am doing wrong here? Our dogs are all very loved and looked after. We have never sold a puppy to anyone nor do we ever plan to. Our dogs are KCC registered and have no floors ie skin conditions eye problems or hip problems and our girl is always closely monitered by our bet when she is pregnant. I have read all the proper text books and listened to vets and show breeders opinions on how to breed and the reasons behind single births and puppy size and they vary greatly. I was just after a laymans opinion as I tend to value hands on experience and peoples varied opinions as much as those written and learnt from textbooks.I think it makes it A LITTLE better if your not selling them
and trying to make money off them. But I dont get WHY your breeding:confused:
If you guys want puppies why cant you adopt from a shelter? There are
TONS of Staffy puppies that need adopting and a loving home and if
evryone in your family takes puppies from your breeding I think it would help the over population of Staffy's alot.

[mydogflick]

Im not entirelly sure how to post pictures on here if anyone could tell me then I would be more than happy to show of our babies and our newest BIG baby

[Flatcoatluver]

flatcoat lover do you not agree with any breeding?
Yes I do, I agree with breeding that is responsible. I work for a person who has bred responsibly and back her 100 percent. I show dogs, and I know people who breed responsibly. I agree with wolfsoul, I think she is a very responsible breeder (sorry to put you in this thread Jorden). But from what I have read from this thread I don't think your a responsible breeder. Now I am trying not to judge, but this is hard for me to not reply because I have seen plenty of dogs being pts because their is not enough homes beacause of irresponsible breeders.

[mydogflick]

again BC MOm I ask what is it that you dont agree with and who SHOULD be breeding in your opinion??? :confused:

[Suki Wingy]

I know you didn't ask me but who SHOULD be breeding are people who
a. Have done all the health tests for their breed
b. Have a goal to better your stock in conformation, working ability, or health
c. Take good care of their dogs

What I think the other people replying in this thread are trying to get at is b.

And to post pictures, go to www.photobucket.com and register for a free account. Upload your pics and resize them to a decent size. Copy the box that starts with [img] and paste it on here.

[luckies4me]

Does that mean just because a dog has a good show career or descendents who have done well they should automatically be bred? What ever happened to breeding for temperament and health? I'm sorry but I would NEVER support a breeder who breeds just for show. They would have to prove to me that the parents are genetically sound as well as mentally sound in order to convince me to purchase a puppy. It's not only about looks. This is why so many breeders continue to chop their dogs tails off and cut their ears back so short it looks like they have none! :rolleyes:

She has stated her dog has good lines, hence the two brothers being shown etc. She chooses not to show because it just isn't her thing. Breeding a good quality animal has more than one component. Genetics, temperament, and health. You either get all three or you get nothing, period. I see no reason why she cannot continue to improve upon the line her grand father created so many years ago if she is keeping tract of the lines (hence she knows the genetics), the animals recieve vet care, and she has done her research. After all, how do you think all of these breeds came about in the first place? Sheesh!

[mydogflick]

flatrcoat lover could you please tell me what you think it is that I am not doing responsibly I am honestly interested to know thankyou

[luckies4me]

I know you didn't ask me but who SHOULD be breeding are people who
a. Have done all the health tests for their breed
b. Have a goal to better your stock in conformation, working ability, or health
c. Take good care of their dogs

What I think the other people replying in this thread are trying to get at is b.


I guess temperament gets thrown right out the window then! :eek: How very sad.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

In my opinion, the only people who should be breeding are the people out there to better a breed. They breed to the standard and breed not only for appearance, but for temperament, health, and working ability also (IMO, appearance should be alst on the list...it is important, but not as important as the other two). They health test for any possible problem the dog may have. They show their dog in something. Be it conformation shows, working trials, etc. all in an effort to evaluate who is of breeding quality and who is not. A responsible breeder will only breed a dog to another dog if they think those two dogs are going to be an improvement to the breed.

Not to be rude, but you don't seem like a responsible breeder at all to me. You seem to be breeding just to have a new addition to your family because you/your family happened to like your Grandparent's dog. Everyone else has already said anything that I would've said, so I'm not going to go into anymore detail. I have no answer to your original quation, as I'm not a breeder and have no idea why things like that happen.

[Suki Wingy]

temperament is a given! I'm sorry, I thought it was so obvious it didn't need to be said. I'm hurt. Maybe you want to check out my website. http://www.freewebs.com/orinocodals/about.html

[buttercup132]

Does that mean just because a dog has a good show career or descendents who have done well they should automatically be bred? What ever happened to breeding for temperament and health? I'm sorry but I would NEVER support a breeder who breeds just for show.
I dont think that at all. Just because a dog has won titles dosent mean it should automatically be bred. BUT if you wanted to breed you dog I think it should have won some titles and be shown. Wich to me includes a good temperment and health.
Or a working dogs. Like a champion herding Border Collie.

[luckies4me]

temperament is a given! I'm sorry, I thought it was so obvious it didn't need to be said. I'm hurt. Maybe you want to check out my website. http://www.freewebs.com/orinocodals/about.html

Obviously not, as it wasn't mentioned. No need to be hurt. It's a comment and nothing more.

[mydogflick]

At first I was getting offended by some of these posts and trying to defend myself and my reasons for what I do. How silly of me I should of realised that we do breed our dogs for temperment over chest bredth or acheiving a blue ribbon in a show. We have bred for health and temperament and we are really happy with our well loved and cherished pets. thankyou for those who have offered helpful opinions and cheery attitudes for those who flet they had to put down and attack I am terribly sorry that you are having a bad day and I do hope it gets better thankyou

[luckies4me]

I dont think that at all. Just because a dog has won titles dosent mean it should automatically be bred. BUT if you wanted to breed you dog I think it should have won some titles and be shown. Wich to me includes a good temperment and health.
Or a working dogs. Like a champion herding Border Collie.

There are many breeders out there who do not show their dogs and their puppies have gone on to win tons of shows and titles! So they must be doing something right. You don't need to show the parents in order to evaluate the pups and their improvement each year and as the line progresses.

I breed rats (taking a break for awhile) and most of my girls and guys have never been shows. Mostly due to health risks and I also do not drive. There are no shows nearby. But I KNOW what a show quality rat is. It is something you learn as the years go by. I breed for show, temperament and health, then for colors and coat type etc. I have had many of my babies win in shows. There are litters I breed just for pets and solely for that purpose, simply because the parents are so darn socialy and friendly and that is super important to me in any line of rats I breed. After all, what's the use of having a gorgeous dumbo russian blue rex berkshire if you can't even pick the thing up! I'd rather buy a plant.

[zoomer]

First off all, I want to say that I think breeding your dog is irresponsible and I don't agree with it if your dog is not a Ch. show dog or something... "breeding to love" is rather pathetic if you ask me. Esspecialy with a breed like pit bulls... there are plenty of pit bull breeders out there and PLENTY in the pound.
Second of all, I think you should have educated yourself on this before breeding.


flatcoat lover do you not agree with any breeding? And if not wont that just totally wipe out all breeds? I am not exactly sure what I am doing wrong here? Our dogs are all very loved and looked after. We have never sold a puppy to anyone nor do we ever plan to. Our dogs are KCC registered and have no floors ie skin conditions eye problems or hip problems and our girl is always closely monitered by our bet when she is pregnant. I have read all the proper text books and listened to vets and show breeders opinions on how to breed and the reasons behind single births and puppy size and they vary greatly. I was just after a laymans opinion as I tend to value hands on experience and peoples varied opinions as much as those written and learnt from textbooks.
Bre (flatcoatlvr) probably doesn't disagree with breeding, just not breeding a dog that doesn't have a CH. or anything.
Staffys are NOT going to get wiped out, there are plenty out there and plenty in the pound, too.

[mydogflick]

sorry Zoomer but our dog is NOT a pitull by any means and In Australia our dogs dont actually have a ch in front of theyre names so please forgive me if I am getting a little lost with that. As for pathetic ? Pathetic is ridaculling (sp) anyone for anything without out trying to first collate all the relevent information. Please try to keep it nice

[critter crazy]

How about we all Agree to Disagree????:D

[lwds]

LWDS both my dog and the stud dogs are KCC registered and of show quality we DONT breed to show as it is not my interest personally.

I have yet to meet a breeder who bred to show. To the standard, yes. (and surprise, surprise - the almighty standard is there for a reason... and it's hardly just about looks to responsible breeders.)

What health testings DO you do on the parents? (I deleted my previous message to move it here).

[BC_MoM]

again BC MOm I ask what is it that you dont agree with and who SHOULD be breeding in your opinion??? :confused:

I don't agree with people just breeding a pet because they love it and think it has a good disposition. I don't agree with breeding to carry on a line.

I agree with breeders who breed RESPONSIBLY, for the best of the breed, are out there in the world showing, sporting their animals, people who have homes lined up for most of the pups before they are born, etc.

[mydogflick]

ok here I go again defending myself again silly silly me
All our dogs wether they are to be used for breeding or not are all tested for Hip Dysplasia, cataracts, demodicosis brachycephalick syndrome,as well as the usual heartworm and other generic non breed specific tests

[Ginger's Mom]

ok here I go again defending myself again silly silly me
All our dogs wether they are to be used for breeding or not are all tested for Hip Dysplasia, cataracts, demodicosis brachycephalick syndrome,as well as the usual heartworm and other generic non breed specific tests
Oh come on, not fair. You specifically asked BC_Mom to give you her opinion of who should be breeding. When she gives you her opinion without any reference to your situation you act as if you have been attacked.

My personal opinion as to why I feel a dog should have some sort of titles (be it working or conformation) is that it shows that someone (actually more than just one someone) objective with a knowledge of the breed standards (which includes temperment) has evaluated that dog/bitch and decided that it is among the best that the breed has to offer. I know there are probably show peopla out there cringing because this judge or that judge is biased in some way. But the beauty of showing again in working class or conformation is that several people have looked over your dog. Left to our own opinions, fortunately or unfortunately, too many of us would decided that our dog is the most beautiful. smartest, sweetest dog of it's breed. But that is just my opinion.