I am seeing red right now!!!!!

[Stenograsaurus]

I was typing this transcript for work and the following are questions and answers from it. I am so mad I am shaking. When I heard it in the courtroom, I had to control myself, but I don't have to now. :mad: :mad:

Q. Okay. And between your surgery training and
medical school -- you got out of medical school in 1958, you
performed some research on dogs involving cardiovascular
surgery issues, did you not?
A. We also had – I worked with Dr. Mustand (phonetic),
and he was an orthopaedic surgeon as well at the Children’s
Hospital.
Q. Okay, but the question was, did you perform, and
it’s on your Curriculum Vitae, –
A. Yes.
Q. – cardiovascular surgery research on dogs?
A. We also did a study on trying to relieve vascular
spasm and that included breaking the dog’s leg and distracting
it and causing spasm and I had to operate on the dog’s back
and do spinals, so there was an element of orthopaedic surgery.
Q. Okay. But you still haven’t answered my question.
Your primary research was primary cardiovascular surgery
involving the dogs. And you’ve testified to that in other
cases, haven’t you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. We don’t need to get those out and do it, do we?
A. No, sir.
Q. Okay. And cardio means the heart, I think you
explained that one.
A. That’s correct.
Q. And for the jurors, vascular means the blood
vessels?
A. Yes.

I lost all respect for the expert witness after hearing the testimony. :mad: :( That poor dog.

[ramanth]

WHAT!??!?!?!?!!?!?

GGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

I commend you.... I would of totally lost it had I heard that. This guy should lose his lisence. He's no doctor. He's a monster. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[anna_66]

:mad: OMG! THIS IS HORRIBLE!:mad:
I can't imagine trying to control myself upon hearing this

[Randi]

APPALLING!!!

[puppylove11]

I do not understand A WORD of that, please explain it to me, whats the problem?????:confused: :confused:

[ramanth]

puppylove... the guy was in court, under oath and answered this to a question asked of him.


A. We also did a study on trying to relieve vascular
spasm and that included breaking the dog’s leg and distracting
it and causing spasm and I had to operate on the dog’s back
and do spinals, so there was an element of orthopaedic surgery.


That's just sick. :( :mad:

[puppylove11]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stenograsaurus
[B]

A. We also did a study on trying to relieve vascular
spasm and that included breaking the dog’s leg and distracting
it and causing spasm and I had to operate on the dog’s back
and do spinals, so there was an element of orthopaedic surgery.



THAT IS JUST SICK, why would you do such a thing!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :mad: :confused: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Stenograsaurus]

Oh, it was hard to not lose it. Half the time I don't pay attention to what's being said. My fingers know where they need to go, so I don't have to concentrate. So I'm sitting there daydreaming, thinking, oh, man, I can't believe I have to do a medical mal. These things are so boring. I hate all these medical terms. Hey, it looks like a pretty nice day today. I hope I'm not here long. Maybe after work I can . . . Wait a minute. Did he just say dog? This is medical mal. Why did he say dog? I better pay attention. Then he gave that answer. :eek: :mad: I know I froze. My fingers stopped moving and my mouth flung open. I looked at all the other staff to see if I heard right. The eyes of every staff member there were on me. They said my face got beat red. I just glared at the doctor. I had used every ounce of restraint I could muster to hold back. I kept thinking, you have a family to take care of, Beth. Don't lose your job. Hold back. So I did. I blinked away the tears and went back to work. But if looks could kill, that doctor would not have walked out of that courtroom!!!!

[Gio]

What a horrible experience! I would have completely lost my temper and most probably broken his leg. :mad: :mad:

[CountryWolf07]

What a horrible thing...! Poor dog! Grrr.. I'll beat the guy myself if I had to. :mad: - Rach

[Karen]

Maybe the dog was under anethesia and didn't feel it. I hope.

[Ann]

I don't really get it to be honest... But if it's animal testing you are talking about then I think it's fairly obvious where I stand on that matter *hates animal testing*

But, isn't this stuff CONFIDENTIAL?? I mean, from what I gather on law procedures and lawyers and stuff like that is that it's all extremely confidential and you're not even allowed to talk about it to your family, even less post it on the net... I just wouldn't want anyone to get in trouble or anything is all.

[Kat Kommando]

Ann,

Good point about expression on the Net. People have been sued or fired over what they said on the Internet. You can say almost anything. Things like revealing secrets or slander may not be protected at all, however.

On animal testing - even those who condon it must be uncomfortable with the excesses. Why must the same experiment be done a thousand times? Is that really necessary or professional? Of course, when the experiment is over the animal's life usually is over as well :(.

[Stenograsaurus]

Originally posted by Ann
But, isn't this stuff CONFIDENTIAL?? I mean, from what I gather on law procedures and lawyers and stuff like that is that it's all extremely confidential and you're not even allowed to talk about it to your family, even less post it on the net... I just wouldn't want anyone to get in trouble or anything is all.

If it was Juvenile Court or Domestic Relations or adoptions it is a closed courtroom and the record is sealed. Anything else is an open courtroom (open to the public), unless sealed by a Judge. The portion of the transcript mentioned above is not sealed. It is open to the public and anyone can view it. Jurors are not allowed to talk about a case until they deliberate and reach a verdict. There is also such a thing as attorney/client privilege, which this is not. I am not a lawyer or a client. No, I can't get in trouble for it, but thanks for your concern.
And, yes, it is about animal torturing, um, I mean "testing".

[AdoreMyDogs]

Wow is this terrible. How someone could do such a thing I will never understand. Truly ugly.

[twirlbird]

When did this guy do this? Im asking this because i think 12 med schools in Canada still use live dogs as test surgery subjects in med school. And there is probably more in the states.

[Ann]

Ok, good to hear that Stenograsaurus.

And it's truly awful... :(

[Smilla]

Okay, I feel a little ill.

Someone expressed hope that the dog was under anesthesia. However, what was said about "distracting" the dog after breaking the leg makes me think not. I really have no idea; that's just how it sounds.

Really gross. I don't care if the guy's in trouble for something else entirely; I hope he gets his because of the dog.

[lizbud]

Although this sort of expermentation is horrible to
hear about, it does go on all the time. Many big name
universities conduct reasearch using companion animals.
Just use any search engine and type in vivisection .

Or you can go to http://www.novivisezione.org/mostra/pan1_en.htm

If you can make it through to Panel4, you will find what I
think is the most compelling evidence that all this "torture"
is totally unnessary. It's just legalized animal abuse in it's
worse forms.

P.S. Steno, I'm sorry you had to sit (in person) and listen
to all the graphic details, while in the same room with the
guy. I would be seeing red too.

[Kat Kommando]

I just saw it and feel the need to caution this is not for the faint of heart - be prepared.

[anna_66]

:( :mad: Oh, those pictures are horrible! I couldn't even go through the whole thing. How on earth could anyone do something like this to a poor defenseless animal, I'll never understand. It just makes me hurt:(

[Ann]

I feel like throwing up.

[lizbud]

Until about four years ago, I was as clueless
as anybody else, that this stuff went on behind
the scenes. They certainly will not post pictures
of this on a company product or university info
catalog. I thought of "animal testing"or animal
"research" meant little white mice running thru
mazes. I thought they were studing animal behavior
in some way. I found a link to a list of companies
& health charities that "test" and the ones that
do not "test" on animals.I found the link thru

http://k9haven.org/ listed under
cruelty-free products; The lists are here;

http://www.peta-online.org/mall/cc.html

If all I can do is speak out against this practice
and switch brands of the products I buy,then that's what I decided to do.
Note: These links do not contain any photos,
just text. Thanks to Kat Kommando for posting
the earlier caution message. I posted hurriedly
& did not include that message.Young children
should never be exposed to such graphic pictures.

[ramanth]

I'm going to be sick.

How can ANYONE with a concious or a soul do this to a living creature. I cannot fathom it......

:( :( :( :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Stenograsaurus]

Originally posted by twirlbird
When did this guy do this? Im asking this because i think 12 med schools in Canada still use live dogs as test surgery subjects in med school. And there is probably more in the states.

I'm thinking late '50's, early '60's, although I'm not sure. I know he graduated from med school in '58. This guy is from Canada. I keep telling myself that animals are viewed differently today than they did in the '50's and '60's. No matter what year I was born, if I was looking at a profession where I had to practice on live animals, I would have picked another profession!!! It's sad to know that this kind of stuff still goes on.

Lizbud, the website you posted is absolutely horrible. I can't put into words how I felt when I was viewing those pictures. And thanks for the kind words in your P.S. That was a very hard thing for me to do. I've been doing this job for 10 years and there are only three things that haunt me and this is one of them. A lot of times I'm able to shake things off and forget about them. That's not the case here. :(

[slleipnir]

OMG..that is horrible!! I was crying looking at those poor things!! You can just see how scared they are in those pictures..how can someone look into the eyes of these beautiful animals and listen to them scream in pain?! It drives me crazy!! I wish I could go int here and save every last animal..thats so horrible!!!

[rg_girlca]

I told myself not to go and look at the site that lizbud posted, but nooooooooo i had to go and look and now i feel sick to my stomach and the tears won't stop flowing.
To think that this still goes on today is heartwrenching.
I couldn't even get past panel 2
My heart breaks for those poor defenseless animals, when all they want to do is just give someone their unconditional love.
Oh talk about going to have problems sleeping tonight.

[mel55smiles]

:o :mad: CRIMSON UGH!@#!LARGE I MADE IT TO PANAL 4 {BARELY}, WHAT REALLY MAKES ME MAD IS HOW THEY USE ANMALS FOR COSMECTICS??
ANAMLS HAVE TO SUFFER BECAUSE WE WANT TO LOOK GOOD???
PERSONALLY, IF ANIMALS SUFFER FROM IT, I WON'T WEAR MAKEUP UN LESS IM SURE THAT THEY DO NOT TEST ON ANIAMLS.

[slleipnir]

I have a strong stomach, and I can look at stuff, gross stuff, without being sick. But thats just horrible. I can't believe it. I don't use stuff unless its not tested on animals, as much as I can anyway. Its horrible and cruel, and very upsetting!!:(

[ramanth]

I was browsing Petfinder and saw this cute pic of a Husky at our local shelter.

Singer (http://web2.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=814366&adTarget=468doggeneral&SessionID=3d078adf69d91a26&display=&preview=1&row=0)

and was horrified to find this with the bio...


Singer was sold to a class B research dealer on 5-15-02, due to lack of space in the shelter. FICAS is totally opposed to the sale of animals to research dealers; however, we do not have a voice in this matter. Neither does the ICAC staff--as the sales have been mandated by the Ingham County Board of Commissioners. If you protest the sale of animals to class b research dealers, PLEASE DO NOT contact the Ingham County Animal Shelter. The staff members are not to blame.

I have just lost all faith in our County Board.

GRRRRRRR!!!!! :mad: :mad: :( :(

[lizbud]

I was wondering why they bothered to list Singer on
Petfinders if she had been sold to a dealer? I've never
seen a listing like that. :confused: What the shelter
posted was almost like a disclaimer of wrongdoing.:confused:

[ramanth]

Originally posted by lizbud
I was wondering why they bothered to list Singer on
Petfinders if she had been sold to a dealer? I've never
seen a listing like that. :confused: What the shelter
posted was almost like a disclaimer of wrongdoing.:confused:

I don't know lizbud.. but the husky wasn't the only one that was sold to research from the same pound. A boxer and a pit bull mix were also sold.

If that happens, I don't know why Petfinder didn't just take the photos off their website since the animals are no longer available for adoption. :(