Pennsylvania School Shooting :(

[finn's mom]

I don't know if this needs to be in the Doghouse or not. I am just posting this because I was really saddened by the news about the 32-year-old husband and father of two (or three, I can't remember for sure) who walked into an Amish one room schoolhouse this morning and ordered all the boys and the teachers out of the building, so that he could barricade the doors and tie up the little girls that were in the school. He killed three girls (I think one was a teacher's aid, but, still just a teen, maybe sixteen) execution style by standing them in front of the chalkboard. He then killed himself. I am horrified by this, and, wanted to ask that maybe we could pray for the families and the community affected by this and especially for the families of the victims (those who have died, and those who are injured) and for the family of the shooter. Please forgive me if this is considered offensive or questionable and needs to be in the doghouse. I didn't think it needed to be, but, Karen, please move it if it should be.

[Jadapit]

I saw that on the news at noon. Its so very sad for everyone involved. This is the third school shooting in a week. There was one here in Colorado last week, then a 15 year old shot his principal I forget what state that happened in. Now this. What is going on in the world anymore? My thought and prayers are with everyone this has happend to. :(

[MajesticCollies]

Wow how saddening. And they say Dogs are bred bad!!! What the heck is happening to humanity? My prayers are with all the families who lost love ones in the shootings.

[luvofallhorses]

what is this world coming to?! you don't know where you are safe in this world anymore that's for sure. :(
my thoughts and prayers are with the families who lost their loved ones and for all involved.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

This is so sad!!!
Fox news just said that 6 have been killed. I don't know if that includes the shooter or not. He left a note and it is supposed to be revenge for something that happened to him 20 years ago. Those poor children weren't even alive then!!! :(

[finn's mom]

[color=blue]This is so sad!!!
Fox news just said that 6 have been killed

That means that the girls in critical condition didn't make it. :(

[zoey]

Horrifying!
Why didn't the ******* just kill himself!?! :confused:

[cyber-sibes]

:( Yes, How sad. I was watching the news during the first official police report. apparently he killed three girls, injured 6 or 7 more (3 were shot in the head and are super-critical). He killed himself, too. apparently this was some kind of revenge by him for something that happened twenty years ago, but no one seems to know what.
The guy walked his own children to the schoolbus stop this morning, then went and did this. His poor wife, she had no idea. Came home and found suicide notes. Then he called her while he was in the school to say he wouldn't be coming home again.
They are all in my prayers. So much sadness for everyone.

[Lady's Human]

zoey Horrifying!
Why didn't the bastard just kill himself!?!


Because if he just killed himself he wouldn't me immortalized on the nightly news. :rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

There is a common thread to all of these incidents.....Guns..easily available get them at Walmart guns....

[Alysser]

I don't understand why people are so sick, I seriously don't. This was a quiet community that was so nice. The people kept to themselves and they never bothered anyone. I don't understand why people do this. I'm sick of watching the news, I really got to learn not to. :(

[BC_MoM]

This brings it up to 4 school shootings in 2 weeks.

1 in Montreal, Canada
1 in Colorado, US
1 in Wisconsin, US
1 in Pennsylvania, US

Is this becoming some kind of psychological trend now?

[catnapper]

Its been on our news all afternoon. It happened less than 45 minutes from here. Scary. I feel just awful for the families of the victims -- including his own family. They are victims too. How will those kdis be able to ever return to school with all the parents, teachers, students all whispering that their father is a crazed murderer? :(

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Fox news has changed the number of killed to 4 including the shooter. But 8 are in critical condition at the hospital.

The thing that haunts me is how terrified those children had to be before they were shot. :(

[BC_MoM]

Our news just said 5 were killed, 7 are in critical condition; all girls were shot. Ages are from 6-13.

[Pam]

I have been to Lancaster County several times on vacation as it isn't very far from me. These people live such simple lives and keep to themselves, shunning worldly things. It has been said that he probably sought out this school because it was so isolated and an *easy mark.* I just can't even fathom how the parents and families of all of those affected are dealing with this tonight. Such a tranquil place turned into a horrendous crime scene. :( :(

[BC_MoM]

They said he most likely chose this school because it was only KM's from his own home.

I'm glad he's dead.

[Maya & Inka's mommy]

Sorry for asking, but why only girls???
This is why I am so much against the fact that guns are available for everyone in some countries.

[Jadapit]

Sorry for asking, but why only girls???
This is why I am so much against the fact that guns are available for everyone in some countries.

They were saying on the news this morning that the shooter molested some family members 20 years ago (young girls) he was having thoughts and dreams of doing it again. Why he chose to go shoot innocent girls, I dont know. He was a sick man that's for sure. :(

[Lady's Human]

Okay, let me rapidly dispel this myth. GUNS ARE NOT READILY AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE!

requirements for purchase (federal): Background check through the FBI. If any misdemeanor or felony pops up the purchase is denied.

There are states where the bar is set higher than others, but a state cannot ignore federal requirements.

[sparks19]

Okay, let me rapidly dispel this myth. GUNS ARE NOT READILY AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE!

requirements for purchase (federal): Background check through the FBI. If any misdemeanor or felony pops up the purchase is denied.

There are states where the bar is set higher than others, but a state cannot ignore federal requirements.


Thank you for that.

when are people going to wake up and realize that GUNS are NOT the problem. guns don't kill people. PEOPLE kill people. do you think not having a gun would have stopped him from killing those little girls? they were bound, they couldn't get away, he could have beaten them to death. GUNS are not the issue. Look at Scotland. Guns are banned and knife crime has more than doubled AND there is still gun violence. Now they are wanting to ban knives. What next? sticks and stones?

The only people banning guns is going to hurt is the law abiding citizens. These petty thugs will find guns elsewhere... like out of the trunk of a car.

Even Gov. Rendell said it today... MORE gun control is not going to solve this issue (and he is a gun control advocate) but even he realized that banning guns are not going to stop people like this. He said "if you are determined to take someone else's life and are willing to die NOTHING is going to stop you from carrying through.

Start punishing the PEOPLE that commit these crimes and stop blaming the inanimate object.

I have passed by this school on many occassion. I live in Lancaster, PA. it is shocking to hear somthing like this from a town like this. Such a horrible tragedy. I only wish the gunman didn't get off so easily. I wish they could have fed him to the inmates. a$$hole

[angelbow20]

i thought he wasnt trying to get anyone back for anything but 20 yrs ago he molested young children and when he came to the school he was planning on doin the same to the young girls but just ended up shooting them.. i think he should have been in jail 20 yrs ago and never got out

[momoffuzzyfaces]

They were saying on the news this morning that the shooter molested some family members 20 years ago (young girls) he was having thoughts and dreams of doing it again. Why he chose to go shoot innocent girls, I dont know. He was a sick man that's for sure. :(
On a news update today, they said there were things found with him that lead them to believe he was planning on molesting the girls before killing them. He got inturrupted by the police arriving so just killed them. :(

[Jadapit]

:confused:
Okay, let me rapidly dispel this myth. GUNS ARE NOT READILY AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE!

requirements for purchase (federal): Background check through the FBI. If any misdemeanor or felony pops up the purchase is denied.

There are states where the bar is set higher than others, but a state cannot ignore federal requirements.

That's ture BUT its not hard to buy a gun from someone off the street. No background check. I honestly dont understand why anyone would need to own an AK-47. Hunters sure aren't going to need that for hunting. :confused:

[JenBKR]

This whole thing just makes me sick. It's just so sad, I can't understand it......I had heard that it had to do with some kind of 20 year old grudge, but I don't know what that grudge is.

On the issue of guns, this is just my opinion, but if they couldn't get the guns legally they would just buy them on the street. IMO if guns are outlawed then only criminals will have them. If someone is going to commit such an act as this then they obviously have no respect of the law......

[Pam]

I had heard that it had to do with some kind of 20 year old grudge, but I don't know what that grudge is.


He wrote in a suicide note to his wife, and later told her on her cell phone, that he had molested a couple of family members 20 years ago and that he was having thoughts of doing that kind of behavior again. The police are trying to contact those family members although aren't sure who they are as no one has reported being molested. They may have been too young to even realize it, according to the colonel giving the press conference.

[Miss Z]

The first I heard of this was on the news last night, but I've been hearing about it all day today. How truly horrifying and my thoughts are with the families of those poor girls. :(

[RICHARD]

There is a common thread to all of these incidents.....Guns..easily available get them at Walmart guns....


Ai Dios!

Guns do not kill people.....

Bullets and idiots, do.



I have three pistols and a bunch of guns that have never gone out and wanted to kill anyone.

I am for gun control.

Gettting a gun should be as hard, or harder than buying a house.

[BC_MoM]

I heard that the reason he chose to kill the young girls was because he was bullied by them while he was in school.

[Lady's Human]

Here's a challenge.........

Walk into your local gun store and ask for an AK-47.

One of two things is going to happen:

The owner is going to politely ask you to leave,

or

If you happen into one of the few gun stores in America which happen to sell AK-47's, you are going to get asked for your FFL Class III license, a $200 non-refundable transfer application tax/fee, and you'll get a bill for about $7500 for the weapon. Some weeks later after all the paperwork has cleared, you'll get your AK-47. Legal fully automatic weapons are rare, dealers are rarer still, and the amount of paperwork required to get the required license limits the number of applicants who are willing to go through the trouble.

If you buy a gun from someone off the street, with no paperwork and no background check, you are committing a felony, with an automatic (theoretically, it's hardly ever enforced) 2 year federal jail sentence.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Ai Dios!

Guns do not kill people.....

Bullets and idiots, do.



I have three pistols and a bunch of guns that have never gone out and wanted to kill anyone.

I am for gun control.

Gettting a gun should be as hard, or harder than buying a house.


Then I guess our relationship is over..... ;) :p I don't go to house with guns. It is just too, too dangerous....

[sparks19]

Then I guess our relationship is over..... ;) :p I don't go to house with guns. It is just too, too dangerous....


Our house has guns.... Please explain to me what makes my house dangerous.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Our house has guns.... Please explain to me what makes my house dangerous.


Good Luck! guns (http://www.jhsph.edu/gunpolicy/Guns_in_Home.pdf)

[Lady's Human]

ES, Depends on which stats you are using.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

look at the DOJ list. Using the DOJ stats Johns Hopkins is off by a factor of 10.

[JenBKR]

You can site a million studies on both sides of the gun issue. Fact is that a house with a gun is no more dangerous than one without, it all depends on the people in the house. I am in favor of gun control, but I do believe that people should be permitted to own guns. I stand by my previous statement that if guns were outlawed then only criminals would have them.

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES, Depends on which stats you are using.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

look at the DOJ list. Using the DOJ stats Johns Hopkins is off by a factor of 10.


Sort of like quoting scriptures, isn't it? You can find something to prove whatever point you want.

I am sure I will not be shot by a gun kept in the house if I am in a house with no gun. I cannot be sure I won't be shot by a gun in a house with a gun in it.

And please, spare me the guns don't kill people, people do....people with GUNS do....or children who pick up a gun...or someone shooting out the window on New Year's Day..or...or..or

[mugsy]

I told Mike he had to choose between owning a gun and marrying me because I will not have a gun in my house...however, I am not going to tell someone who legally has a gun that they can't have one, as long as it is properly secured. When Mike was married to his first wife, he had a gun cabinet and multiple guns, but, the kids never got near it under the penalty of severe punishment and it was locked and the kids didn't know where the key was.

Now, sounding like I'm backpedaling here...the Bill of Rights does NOT give the average Joe the right to own a gun. It says in the 2nd Amendment that the MILITIA has the right to bear arms, but, the Supreme Court has muddled that one quite nicely.

[Lizzie]

Veering back to the original topic, I'm been thinking about the girls who survived and how they will cope with everything they saw and experienced. Yes, they belong to a close-knit and very supportive community that will help them greatly. But, will that community know how to deal with the kind of psychological damage this trauma will have caused? I know next to nothing about the Amish, so I don't know - will they allow these children to see professional counselors or pschologists? Will they assume that their faith will heal them and they need no other help?

[Cataholic]

You can site a million studies on both sides of the gun issue. Fact is that a house with a gun is no more dangerous than one without, it all depends on the people in the house. I am in favor of gun control, but I do believe that people should be permitted to own guns. I stand by my previous statement that if guns were outlawed then only criminals would have them.


You must be kidding. Same goes with pools in the back yard, trampolines in the yard, open stairwells, etc. The house/structure IS more dangerous by the existance of such an attractive nuisance. While that might not mean something WILL happen, the very existence of these items raises the danger quota over a home that doesn't have such items.

In my house, no one will EVER be accidently shot with a gun. I forbid, and will continue to forbid, guns in my house. I also do not go to houses with guns. I would not let my son play, sleep over, or visit a house that has guns.

If only criminals have guns, good. I will try my best to steer clear of criminals, too.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

The entire community will need counseling if what I heard on the news is true and I'm sure it is.

There is a group of "war protesters" from Kansas who make it their sole purpose in life to protest funerals. They usually just protest military funerals so I was surprised to see them already in PA protesting where these innocent children were butchered.

They aren't protesting that the children were killed, they seem to think it's just punishment for the US being in the IRAQ war??? They are supposidly a "Baptist" group of some sort. I know of no Baptist church that will claim them myself!!! They are a bunch of nuts in my opinion.

When they protested recently at one of the funerals of one of the military men killed in Iraq at one of our nearby towns; the towns people ringed the area with American flags so the family of the soldier couldn't see them.

I'm not a violent person but these people make me sick. They are a disgrace to Christians every where (how they can even claim to be Christians is beyond me) and I'm ashamed they are from my state!!!

I guess some people will use any excuse to show thier ignorance!!! :(

[JenBKR]

You must be kidding. Same goes with pools in the back yard, trampolines in the yard, open stairwells, etc. The house/structure IS more dangerous by the existance of such an attractive nuisance. While that might not mean something WILL happen, the very existence of these items raises the danger quota over a home that doesn't have such items.

In my house, no one will EVER be accidently shot with a gun. I forbid, and will continue to forbid, guns in my house. I also do not go to houses with guns. I would not let my son play, sleep over, or visit a house that has guns.

If only criminals have guns, good. I will try my best to steer clear of criminals, too.

My house has a gun, and it is absolutely not more dangerous than a house w/out guns. Why? Because we do not keep bullets in the house. (Or for rifles are they called shells? Not sure on that) My husband is a hunter, but only buys the bullets when he hunts. The bullets never enter the house. He still keeps his guns locked up. My father, who also used to hunt, treated guns the same way. Growing up I knew he hunted, I knew his guns were locked up, and I knew that the bullets never entered the house. I believe it depends on how the guns are treated. I think you might be surprised by how many people you know that have guns in their houses - I certainly was!

Just want to edit to say - I don't like guns personally, I don't ever want one, never want to hunt, never want to use one at all. I have never liked guns. But, I believe that people should be permitted to own them through legal means.

[JenBKR]

The entire community will need counseling if what I heard on the news is true and I'm sure it is.

There is a group of "war protesters" from Kansas who make it their sole purpose in life to protest funerals. They usually just protest military funerals so I was surprised to see them already in PA protesting where these innocent children were butchered.

They aren't protesting that the children were killed, they seem to think it's just punishment for the US being in the IRAQ war??? They are supposidly a "Baptist" group of some sort. I know of no Baptist church that will claim them myself!!! They are a bunch of nuts in my opinion.

When they protested recently at one of the funerals of one of the military men killed in Iraq at one of our nearby towns; the towns people ringed the area with American flags so the family of the soldier couldn't see them.

I'm not a violent person but these people make me sick. They are a disgrace to Christians every where (how they can even claim to be Christians is beyond me) and I'm ashamed they are from my state!!!

I guess some people will use any excuse to show thier ignorance!!! :(

You have got to be kidding me.....those people are actually going to protest the funerals of children?? As if that community doesn't have enough to deal with already :( How sad.

[Cataholic]

I wouldn't be surprised by who keeps guns in their houses. I have a pretty good idea who does/who doesn't(of the people I know). I have 4 brothers. None of them hunts, none of them owns a gun. My father doesn't own a gun. None of my friends owns a gun. I wouldn't date someone that owns a gun, nor, would I let that gun into my home.

I just don't remember anyone on the news, after a tragic "accident", saying, "Yeah, the guns were just laying around, bullets right next to them". Seems it is ALWAYS, "Guns were locked up! Kids NEVER touched them before! Bullets were 'hidden'"!

Everyone is different, and has different views on guns. I have a very strong dislike of guns. Very strong. It only got stronger with the addition of Jonah.

[JenBKR]

Everyone is different, and has different views on guns. I have a very strong dislike of guns. Very strong. It only got stronger with the addition of Jonah.

I can understand that - I am uncomfortable around guns myself....and who knows how I will feel after having kids myself? I may change my mind entirely.

[sasvermont]

I will not have a gun in my house. I have shot a gun, years ago, for target practice. I didn't enjoy it and decided then never to own a gun. I think they are not necessary except for hunting. You don't need an AK47 to hunt animals.

I hate guns. :mad: :eek: :(

[momoffuzzyfaces]

You have got to be kidding me.....those people are actually going to protest the funerals of children?? As if that community doesn't have enough to deal with already :( How sad.
Yes, they are already there. When I see them all lined up and grinning like they are I want to slap some sense into them.

If they want to protest the war, they should go picket the White House and stop the nonsence at funerals. The Amish don't believe in war at all and don't even serve in the miliary!!!

The fact that these nut jobs seem to think innocent people are getting what they deserve because the government is at war is really frightening to me. I can't help wonder if they would be protesting at the funeral if it was one of their loved ones!!! :(

[davidpizzica]

The entire community will need counseling if what I heard on the news is true and I'm sure it is.

There is a group of "war protesters" from Kansas who make it their sole purpose in life to protest funerals. They usually just protest military funerals so I was surprised to see them already in PA protesting where these innocent children were butchered.

They aren't protesting that the children were killed, they seem to think it's just punishment for the US being in the IRAQ war??? They are supposidly a "Baptist" group of some sort. I know of no Baptist church that will claim them myself!!! They are a bunch of nuts in my opinion.

When they protested recently at one of the funerals of one of the military men killed in Iraq at one of our nearby towns; the towns people ringed the area with American flags so the family of the soldier couldn't see them.

I'm not a violent person but these people make me sick. They are a disgrace to Christians every where (how they can even claim to be Christians is beyond me) and I'm ashamed they are from my state!!!

I guess some people will use any excuse to show thier ignorance!!! :(
Connie, the only reason these "chistians" (nothing Christian about them!) are at the funerals of these poor girls is to protest comments made by the Pennsylvania governor critizing them. They don't care at all about the sensless tragedy in this community. To me, they're lower than dirt.

[JenBKR]

Connie, the only reason these "chistians" (nothing Christian about them!) are at the funerals of these poor girls is to protest comments made by the Pennsylvania governor critizing them. They don't care at all about the sensless tragedy in this community. To me, they're lower than dirt.

What comments? I think I missed that part...

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Connie, the only reason these "chistians" (nothing Christian about them!) are at the funerals of these poor girls is to protest comments made by the Pennsylvania governor critizing them. They don't care at all about the sensless tragedy in this community. To me, they're lower than dirt.
I couldn't agree with you more!
I wondered why they were there since it wasn't a funeral of a military member.

To tell grieving people that God hates them and they are getting what they deserve because of what the country does is just stupid!!!!!!!!

Too bad we can't ban protests at funerals!!! (we've tried in Kansas) :(

[davidpizzica]

What comments? I think I missed that part...
Jen, I'm not sure what the comments were either, but this what I heard on KDKA noon news today.

[sandragonfly]

40 shootings (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html) total since 1996. :( :(

there was even a shooting at crayola's (most awesome) park not a while ago too.. I have no words.

[Dorothy39]

Horrifying!
Why didn't the ******* just kill himself!?! :confused:
My thoughts exactly!!! :eek:

I don't dare to read any more details about this story, Good Lord, I had nightmares back in the seventies , when I heard about the "Jamestown Massacre!!!" :eek: :(

[smokey the elder]

One thing that I thought was amazing, given their dislike of being photographed (it's actually supposed to be taboo) that there was a gentleman being interviewed. I think they figure if they give "the English" (outsiders) a little of what they want, they'll go away.

[Pam]

One thing that I found interesting and a little sad today was something mentioned on Good Morning America. Since they don't believe in having their pictures taken these parents will have no photographs of their loved ones to remember them by. I mentioned this at work today and my co-worker said that was OK because she can always remember what her loved ones, who have passed on, look like. Call me morbid, but I occasionally pull out an old photo of my dad and it takes me back to when he was here. Chris Cuomo on GMA said the Amish will sometimes save articles of clothing or locks of hair to remember loved ones.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Just in from CNN Headline News: The weird Kansas group has agreed to NOT picket at the funerals in exchange for air time on a local radio station. They didn't say if it was a local PA station or a local KS station but at any rate they can be turned off and since the Amish don't have radios anyway, the grieving families won't be hurt by the group!

Thank GOD!!!

[davidpizzica]

Just in from CNN Headline News: The weird Kansas group has agreed to NOT picket at the funerals in exchange for air time on a local radio station. They didn't say if it was a local PA station or a local KS station but at any rate they can be turned off and since the Amish don't have radios anyway, the grieving families won't be hurt by the group!

Thank GOD!!!
Oh, Connie, I'm so glad to hear that. That is the last thing that grieving community needs.My thoughts and prayers go out to those families who lost their loving children in this tragedy.

[sparks19]

LOL so because we own guns my husband is going to kill me? LOL I don't think so. As for children, Our children will be TAUGHT how to use a gun, what a gun IS and how to properly respect a gun. they will be taught to hunt, they will be taught what a gun can do and they will be taught EVERYTHING on gun safety and they will never EVER use it as a toy. this will be taught to them and imprinted in them from the day they are born. So because of some statistics it means that because we have guns that someone in my house is going to be killed? Like you said, you can use statistics to prove anything.

All I know is my husband will never EVER turn a gun on me or anyone in our house. I would never do it either. Our children will be taught from day one (which makes a BIG difference) about guns and what they are to be used for.

In my opinion, if you cannot USE a gun efficiently then you have no business owning one. A gun is a DEADLY weapon and should NOT be used unless you intend on using it to FATALLY wound someone. Just injuring someone with your gun can be far more dangerous for you.

You may be sick of the argument "people kill people" but that doesn't make it any less true. Like I said, lots of places have banned guns and now all the deaths and violence that took place with guns are NOW taking place with knives. Shall we just all have our hands cut off so that we can't use any tool that could possibly injure someone? That argument is ridiculous. Punish the people that MURDER others, don't punish the inanimate object. That is just silly.

Blaming guns just gives murderers a scape goat and I for one am sick of that bullsh!t.

[cyber-sibes]

Veering back to the original topic, I'm been thinking about the girls who survived and how they will cope with everything they saw and experienced. Yes, they belong to a close-knit and very supportive community that will help them greatly. But, will that community know how to deal with the kind of psychological damage this trauma will have caused? I know next to nothing about the Amish, so I don't know - will they allow these children to see professional counselors or pschologists? Will they assume that their faith will heal them and they need no other help?Good question, I don't know either, but I would imagine they will want to deal with it privately within their own community. I know I would be crazed beyond belief - how do you deal with the violent and senseless slaughter of your little girl? *shakes head*

I was also stunned that a group would protest in that way - their smiling faces holding up posters claiming this is God's justice made me want to puke. "God hates you" was one of them. I wonder how they deal with tragedy in their lives? Who or what do they turn to when nothing makes sense? They seem to think they have all the answers.
It's disgraceful that they even got coverage by the networks. Half the time I think if the news-casters weren't hyping up these & other bizzaros so much, alot of them would just fade into oblivion.