Opinions...please help...

[caseysmom]

As some of you may remember my brother passed away 7-30. I took in my 22 year old niece. I have just about had it! She has not washed one dish and has me doing all her laundry, she just brings out a big pile once a week and dumps it outside the laundry room and leaves it.

Yesterday I told her I did her laundry but from now on she needed to do it. Then she wanted to bake something to take to this intern she is doing. She had me go buy the stuff and wouldn't even go with me, she has a car and money. She brough some cookie cutters home from her dads house, its empty we are selling it. Anyhow she says these need to be washed, I said guess what there's the dish soap and there's the sponge, your 22 go for it.

She then left flour and dirty dishes all over the kitchen and went in her room, I went in there and said are you done in the kitchen, she said yes. I said you need to clean it up.

Then I found she used magic eraser on my wooden kitchen table...by the way I had gone in during the cookie making demo and she had all the cookie dough directly on the table...no cutting board or anything.

She asked me to buy her contact solution....several people are sending checks for her to help her after her dad died, they address the envelope to me and the check to her. I left her one of the checks in her bathroom with a note that says to give me 22.00 of this since you had me buy your contact solution.

One check was made out for me and she said "your putting that in my account right" but she won't buy a damn thing, I have had it! I really think something is wrong with her, I have had 1 thank you in 6 weeks and no pleases at all.

[Cataholic]

Something is wrong with her. I think you might look into some joint counseling, if you intend to have her live with you. I can barely remember 22, and, certainly not the death of my father factored in. While I understand how frustrating this must be for you, and, you lost your brother, too, if somehow you can relate to what she obviously has not had during her lifetime (it doesn't sound like someone ever gave her a guiding hand in life), it might get better.

And, wherever did you buy contact solution for $22? Mine costs about $3! He he he.

[caseysmom]

Something is wrong with her. I think you might look into some joint counseling, if you intend to have her live with you. I can barely remember 22, and, certainly not the death of my father factored in. While I understand how frustrating this must be for you, and, you lost your brother, too, if somehow you can relate to what she obviously has not had during her lifetime (it doesn't sound like someone ever gave her a guiding hand in life), it might get better.

And, wherever did you buy contact solution for $22? Mine costs about $3! He he he.

I went to costco and got a mutli pack of boston advance 2 4 oz bottles and 1 bottle of cleaner. IT was 21.79 plus tax. I guess what really bothers me is she acts like she is better than us or something, and she is so unappreciative and just expects things. I don't mind helping but she starts hovering at dinner time, never helps at all, she expects me to make her lunch for work she flops on the couch and hogs the tv all night and doesn't even move her legs when you walk over to sit down.

[catnapper]

I don't envy the spot you're in.

This is what I'd do:
She dumps the laundry by the laundry room? You pick it up and dump it back in her room, with the explanation that she is to do her own laundry, one load at a time like the rest of the family. She dumps it back at the laundry room without even attempting ot wash it herself? Toss it onto the front porch. Works like a charm.

As for the tv at night? Hit the circuit breaker. No electricity = no tv.

You're going to feel like the Wicked Witch of the West but its something that has to be done in order to get through to her. Talking and rationalizing hasn't gotten you anywhere, as I'm sure neither has screaming and shouting. Now is time for action.

If you consistently let her know that you're here to help her through this tragedy, not be her servant, then she'll either get the hint and clean up her act or leave. Either way she'll learn an important life lesson. Staying will help her grow in a caring and nurturing environment and she'll finally learn that a family helps each other. Leaving will help her realize just how much responsibility she's ignored in life, and that life doesn't revolve around her.

[caseysmom]

Thanks Kim. Its just hard for me to relate, I was married at 22, had a job, paid my own bills and did all my own housework.

She sits and watches fox news, bad mouths democrats (she knows we are more democrat than republican) when she was a teen for fun she taped rush limbaugh and listened to him.

I don't want her here. When my brother died she told the coroner I will go live with her and pointed at me, she never asked me and I never asked her. The coroner was ready to put her in adult protective custody because the house was so disgusting and the coroner said she didn't think she could be on her own.

I don't know what else to do with her, her mom's side of the family has stayer clear away and my sister doesn't want any part in it, she has always thought they were really rude.

[lizbud]

I have had it! I really think something is wrong with her, I have had 1 thank you in 6 weeks and no pleases at all.

I honestly thought you already knew that. You said as much when you first talked about her in your other thread. She is the girl you felt that was socially
backward & slow about understanding things?

She needs to learn a lot of things about life & how to get by by doing
everyday things for herself.(Things most kids learn in grade & high school)
Someone has to take on the job to teach her these simple things. Either
she learns them from you or maybe she would do better in a group home
type enviroment. It may take years & a lot of patience.

[caseysmom]

Lizbud, Okay in my mind I knew that, now I am living it and need to vent ...sorry it helps to talk to my friends on here.

[jazzcat]

Okay, from your first post I didn't think she could do much of anything for herself and when you posted now that she has a job, a car and can drive I was like :eek: :confused: . Does she truly have a mental disability or was she just brought up to have someone cater to her every need and never made to do anything. I would think that someone who is bright enough to get a driver's license could wash dishes and laundry. I would think it would just be a matter of showing her how it is to be done since she is obviously bright enough and then laying down the law to make her do it. Also I would not buy things for her anymore, have her do that herself.

You need to help her learn how to function on her own but not at the expense of your family and your health. There needs to be rules and boundaries for her. Maybe I'm off base never having dealt with this but I'm still just floored at the things she is able to do and the things it sounds like she just plain won't. Probably a very good thing I'm not dealing with this, I don't think I could handle it.

(((HUGS)))

[caseysmom]

Jazzcat, that is the wierd thing and my best friend is and me can't get a grip on it either.

She is very bright book wise, just passed her pharmacy tech exam, she didn't tell me I saw the cert in her room. She interns and hopefully they will hire her..she drives her dads car and I have asked her 10 times to go get the oil changed and that stumps her. It is wierd. I know my brother didn't do that much for her after his wife died, they were both lazy and the house just didn't get cleaned, they were going to condemn the house.

[Karen]

At this point, six weeks in, I'd have a major sit-down conversation with her. Prepare a list of "Household Rules" like a contract she needs to agree to and sign if she is going to continue living there. Include things like:

1. You must do your own laundry
2. If you use a room, like the kitchen, you need leave it in the same condition you found it
3. "Magic eraser" is not to be used on the following surfaces (list)
4. Meals are your own responsibility. (Or make some rule up about - you don't mind cooking if she does all the clean-up, or some other deal) she can pay, even.

You get the idea. Print out your proposed rules, and if she won't agree to them, discuss and negotaite a new set. If she won't do that, she needs to find her own place to live.

[jazzcat]

I think Karen is right on and also be prepared to "add" to the rules as certain situations arise.

[caseysmom]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Not sure how I could tell her to leave, she has nowhere to go so I guess I need to bite the bullet and lay down the law. I just have my hands full trying to get my teens to do things and I bet she thinks well if they don't neither will I ....HELLO your not my kid and your 22. My kids have been careful to help and say thank you in front of her but she still doesn't get it.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I also agree with Karen. If she has it clearly written down what is expected of her, she can't prented to be igorant about it. If she continuously refuses to do what you reasonably ask, I wouldn't feel inclined to keep her there. She is 22 and is definately old enough to be taking care of herself.

I'm only 23, but last year I was graduated from college and taking care of myself, as I did all through college. Obviously, everyone is different but someone did her a terrible disservice by allowing her to be so immature.

[BC_MoM]

She's 22. Kick her out? If people are helping her out, I'm sure she can live in an apartment or something.

You sound like how I would be.. don't let her push you around and use you as her maid!!

Tell her if she doesn't start pulling her load, she's out.

[caseysmom]

I can't really just kick her out, she has some problems. Her brother is severly autistic so I think she may have it mildly or something. At this point I just can't kick her out its not in me.

[Dorothy39]

caseysmom, You certainly have your hands full right now. :confused:

I'm so sorry that you have been "appointed" Sergeant!!!


I have drawn up contracts with my own children, and, they helped my children realize that self assertiveness can nurture positive growth!!!


Take it one day at a time.

[caseysmom]

If my brother wasn't dead I would kill him! How's that for keeping my sense of humor :D

[lizbud]

Well, after reading the PM you sent me, perhaps you should include a
caveat with your next thread. Something like "Opinions please help" except
anyone with an honest opinion that is not at all in line with what I already
plan to do or not do. I want to vent only, not really looking for opinions. :)

[catnapper]

If my brother wasn't dead I would kill him! How's that for keeping my sense of humor :DLOL... my husband has health issues which he prefers to ignore and I tell him that I'll kill him if he dies on me!

I really do understand where you are coming from. My cousin Denise sounds just like your neice. You want to protect her at the same time you want to kick her in the rear! Vent all you want sweetie!

[caseysmom]

Thanks Kim, I don't mind opinions...just don't want to be told "well you already knew" Yeah I knew but I am hurting and need to talk.

[jazzcat]

I understand where you are coming from. I care for my stubborn 84 year old father who has dementia/alzheimer's. I can totally relate to needing to vent. I know that I must be careful of who I vent in front of because it sounds like I don't realize he has a problem. I do know that and I don't need anyone pointing it out to me but sometimes you can only take so much and you need to let it out. I've learned to not vent to some of my family because they take it as I need them to solve the problem - no - sometimes their suggestionss are even more frustrating and all I need is someone who understands to lend a sympathic ear.

I hope that you find a way to get through to her. Maybe the 'rules' is something to try. I doubt it will hurt anything and hopefully it will work. I'm sending you lots of good thoughts and vibes!!!

[Dorothy39]

caseysmom, You have every right to vent your despair, on Pet Talk.

We care and understand your frustration. Your niece reminds me of my one of my own nieces!!!!

Trust me, If Pet Talk existed when I took care of her, you would have read the same thread posted by ME!!!!!!


You can only do your very best~~~ So, pat yourself on the back for Knowing that you Raised your hand, when your name was called, for a job you didn't even want!!!


Postive thoughts and prayers for you!!!!!

[Muddy4paws]

I think Karen has the right idea, definatly set the rules now because she is walking all over you and she must obviously know it, my little brother even knows you dont leave rooms in a mess especially when you have made it and hes 9 years old.

I would defiantly write up a list as Karen suggested or make her pay rent or move out, no one else would put up with the kind of behaviour so you definatly deserve to be treated better seeing all you have done for her.

[Logan]

I'm glad I read the whole thread before I responded......I obviously missed or forgot your first thread.

Start over with her. Show her how to operate the washing machine and dryer and explain why it is important for her to be able to use it herself. Do the same with every other chore in your home that you expect her to do for herself, even if you have to do it, over and over.

I can't begin to understand the depth of her problems, but perhaps you are exactly what she needs. Someone to be tough, yet patient, with her.

I wish you the best of luck.

Logan

[Lizzie]

I've followed this from the start, but haven't posted anything since I've never been in such a situation. I just kept thinking that I was glad it wasn't me, and it's as well for your niece that it wasn't me.

You say that she is good at book learning and Karen suggested writing up a list of rules. Some people need to have things written down in order to assimilate them well so I agree with others that this is your best approach. Go into detail, she must be used to written details if she has passed her pharmacy tech. exam. If you have to, write out a response if she doesn't follow the rules. "On September 19, you failed to wash your laundry. You accepted that you have to do your own laundry when you signed the agreement."

She reminds me of a co-worker who is very book smart but utterly hopeless about remembering details, preferring to lean on me to go over them time after time. I don't. I refer her to the written instructions. She can discuss philosphy with professors and then can't remember in which order to emcee a meeting, even though she's done it 12 times before. She needs to lean on people. And I think she forgets details that simply don't interest her. Perhaps your niece is conveniently "forgetting" things she doesn't want to do.

[caseysmom]

Thanks everyone. I don't know how much is "wrong with her" or her mom raising her with remarks about how we are rich (i know she thought that) how we are liberal, etc etc.

She made a comment about how my mom (her grandma) went to hawaii every year...this was totally false I said grandma went to Hawaii ONCE.

Her mom had no social skills and it seems like my brother was too lazy to intervene...

[Cataholic]

Maybe I am guilty of oversimplifying things. Maybe. But, is there any chance she really doesn't get what is going on? If I were raised in an enviroment where nothing was expected of me, and unless I spent alot of time with other responsible, mature adults/kids, I just wouldn't get it.

So, any chance of a sit-down, non confrontational talk? Maybe, "(insert name), I realize this all must be pretty overwhelming for you. You lost your dad (and mom??), had to move in with me, and things are hectic here with me and my kids. How are you feeling? What can I do to help you (yes, I said to help her, as she is still the younger person, you still the adult)". Maybe there is just a communication issue? Maybe she sees things vastly different? Maybe she doesn't realize what is going on? OR, maybe she is just a manipulative, non-caring, evil person. We do have those in the world today.

But, until you have gotten a sense of where she is from, I can't see how you will know the path to take.

It seems that she has some mental health issues, and I don't seem to be able to move past that. I know this isn't what you want to hear, and I am sorry, but, I feel really, really sorry for her. :(

[caseysmom]

I feel sorry for her too. That is the only thing that has kept me going being the administrator of the estate, etc.

I am not sure how to get her mental health evaluated since she is an adult, she seems to have a lot of symptom of aspergers, she is CONSTANTLY touching and picking at her face.

The lady at the church had her for 5 days and called me and screamed that she couldn't take it, she was physically and metally exhausted.

I wonder if the stress did my brother in at 51, don't mean it to sound so cruel but it must have been difficult for him working a lot of hours to put food on the table and she would not touch anything in that house.

edit to add I don't really think she is a manipulative evil person at least I don't see that.

[carole]

Gosh i really feel for you in this sensitive situation, because that is what it is really isn't it, here you have a young lady with no social skills ,maybe some mental problems and no idea how to deal with it all, i would say it would be over-whelming, i sure would not like to be in your shoes either, i would also imagine she is grieving for the loss of her father too.

I think saying you should kick her out, is heartless, we would not do that to a stray animal here on PT, and i know there is no way you are even thinking that way at this stage,hang on in there if you can.

I think your best bet is to get some professional help , they may beable to give your ideas how to deal with her, getting her evaluated would make sense first though, as then you would know exactly what you are dealing with, i hope things work out and i admire your courage taking her on, thank goodness she has you to turn to, good luck. :)

[Husky15]

Well, she definitely should be helping around the house. It's only right. But if her father just died she could be going through depression or just very not happy at this time. But it wouldn't hurt to help you around the house.

[caseysmom]

I don't think she was very close with her dad, all the remarks about him have been negative. I don't think its that, she has always been like this. I haven't seen her cry once for him.

My brother was a really sweet guy but for whatever reason they were not close, he may have gotten frustrasted, I know it was overwhelming for them all those years to have his son severely autistic.

[Catty1]

how about

start with a doctor's appt? For you at least, if not her.

That "protective custody" might have been your best option.

A set of rules, with the "PC" as a last backup option, might be a good try.

If nothing else, YOU get family counselling for yourself. You'll at least get info on all kinds of help. She could benefit from a life skills course.

Some things here you CAN do, and others need a professional edge.

A word on disabilities: My sister had ms for about 20 years, and died of it in April. One of the best things I learned was this:

"Having a disability doesn't make someone a saint."

If you are walking on eggshells, you don't have to do that any more.

I liked Catnapper's suggestion - actions (like the laundry dumping) show her what she CAN'T do.

Just make sure that whatever consequences you say- that you carry through with it, so she learns to respect what you say - that you'll do what you say you will.

I'll shut up now - good luck!

[caseysmom]

That protective custody seemed harsh at the time, I hadn't lived with her. I would like to see her finish her internship, graduate and get a job.

I have tried counseling with my teen, just seemed like I was paying a hundred bucks for a lady to sit and not and ask a couple of questions. Maybe I can try a different one.

I know I am part of the problem, I realize that. All day at work I have been feeling bad about the "pay me back for the contact stuff" note. I shouldn't feel bad but I do, I can't control it. I get angry when someone should already in my opinion know something and I have to say something and come off like the bad guy.

[caseysmom]

I forgot one little story...

We went out of town for 2 nights for my daughters diving, my niece did not want to go. When we got home I said "hi we are home, did you miss us?" She said flat toned "not really" I guess I left enough food with instructions :rolleyes:

[I_luv_rusty]

I forgot one little story...

We went out of town for 2 nights for my daughters diving, my niece did not want to go. When we got home I said "hi we are home, did you miss us?" She said flat toned "not really" I guess I left enough food with instructions :rolleyes:

Wow.. I'm guessing she didn't clean anything up?? :rolleyes:

It must be a handful with her in the house.. :( (((Hugs)))

[caseysmom]

I left her a note that said that the dishwasher was empty to rinse your dishes and put them in there. The dishes were put in there not rinsed at all.

Also it was on the 3 day weekend, we got home late sunday night, first thing monday she plunks down all her laundry in the hall.....I told her, you should have done that while we were gone now I have all of your and all of ours. she was doing her own laundry at home, I asked.

[caseysmom]

My husband called to tell my somebody broke into my brothers house...just what I needed :rolleyes: Luckily they didn't get anything, they ransacked it looking for stuff. They tried to steal his car but luckily the batter was dead. I asked my niece 5 times to bring the car key here because it was in a closet over there.

I have calmed down a bit I was just feeling frustrated over the weekend, thanks for letting me unload.

[Husky15]

Man, it's too bad the only remarks she has said about him were negative and that she didn't even cry. I think that you need to lay it down straight to her that she HAS to do something around the house or she is out. Sometimes shoving it in their face is the only way.

Also, it's good that the people didn't get anyting from the house and luckily the car battery was dead.

[caseysmom]

Yeah I was afraid someone would try that with the house, its been empty for a while. I am glad my niece wasn't there checking the mail or something.

She is at work right now, I left her a message that she is not allowed to go by the house after dark for a while.

She really is a good kid in so many ways it could be so much worse, she doesn't drink, doesn't have boyfriends, doesn't do drugs. She goes to church, wouldn't ever swear.

I love my niece and really hope she meets a nice guy and finds happiness in her life.

[Husky15]

Yes, thank goodness she wasn't there. That would have been terrible and you're right when you say not to go near there after dark. That's what usually happens to empty houses, it's a shame though. She sounds like a sweetheart, just needs to clean up a little bit more ;) I wish you the best with her.

[carole]

You know everyone shows grief in a different way, even though you feel they were not close, i am sure she still feels something now he is gone, i do believe from what you have said she has always been that way,not doing anything to help,if she is depressed though even lifting a finger can be mamoth task, however you and you alone only know your niece, so i feel you are the only one who can set the rules,i would imagine she needs rules just like anyone else, if she is not used to that way of living, well she will get used to it in time, if i were you i would not be too hard on her right now, give her a chance to one get used to her new surroundings and two deal with the loss of her father, whatever her relationship was with him, i have no doubt she will be feeling some sort of loss.

It is obvious you love her, or why would you even bother to take her in and come here to vent, it is good you have a place here to do just that, hopefully some of our suggestions and opinions may help, hope so, take care and all the best. :)

[caseysmom]

Carol....thanks for your input. I feel exactly like you, I am trying not to be too hard on her right now.

Sometimes it gets harder than other times. Like last night she said I can't find the bottom of my cheesecake pan, I think someone that cleaned my house threw it away, I am REALLY mad.

Now keep in mind the coroner talked about having the house condemned, 10 people, myself and my daughter went and spent 5 hours cleaning. We were seriously vomiting while cleaning it was so bad. There was never a thank you for any of that. So in response I said "you shouldn't be mad, those people out of the kindness of their hearts cleaned your house and helped you, you got lots of money donated go buy another pan, hiring someone to do that cleaning would have costed a lot of money" Now keep in mind some of the pans and dishes were just so horrendous and filthy they did get thrown out.