Mom is refusing to belive me about raw.

[GreyhoundGirl]

I'm trying to get my mother to belive me about the gains of feeding raw. I have tried to get her to belive you countless people out there, but she keeps going on and on and on about how the best thing you can feed a dog is Iams. I found a lot of websites and threads and such, but she just won't belive me. She says things like "all these people say that they are vets and such, but for all you know they are all a bunch of wierd-os" " dogs can't live on chicken and eggs " " chicken has salmonella "

Arggg ! It's so annoying that she won't belive anything I say. How would you guys get someone like this to belive you? Can you share anything about raw, stories, gains. Anything.

She is so in love with Iams, it's so salty, you can see it on the kibble, it is grain covered in salt. I am at least trying to feed her a different sort of food, not so salty, maybe. Do you guys know any good dry food?

Please help.

[BC_MoM]

I'm stuck with you, Jenny! My parents say the same things your Mom is saying. :(

And all I've wanted to do is TRY raw.

[Roxyluvsme13]

If you can't go Raw, try Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul, Innova Evo, or Canidae. I'm trying to get my 2 on Canidae..
Show her this vid. My mom was the exact same way about feeding our dogs Raw. It's just not cost or time efficient for us right now, so we're back on kibble.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DL2KluuiKck <----I made that to show to my own mom, and yes it has some PT dogs in it. Also, see if you can find my Raw discussion thread, I'm too lazy to dig out the link :o.

[Riptide]

Maybe you could ask your vet's opinion? Iams vs. Raw seems like a given, though. I'd love to feed raw, we just don't have the room for it.

[GreyhoundGirl]

BC mom, I wanna TRY it too. My mom won't even give it a chance. :(

Bri: That's a good video, did you make it? Candae is dry kibble, right? ( :confused: Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul isn't that a book? )


Riptide: One of my concernes, too. Seems like more work.

[sammy101]

Bri: That's a good video, did you make it? Candae is dry kibble, right? ( :confused: Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul isn't that a book? )


Chicken Soup is also dog food,a very good one that i've heard. Mine get Nutro Natural Choice and its a much better food that Iams. Its pretty affordable too.

[GreyhoundGirl]

Nutro is good? Is it better than Purina 1? I have seen it in Wal-Mart, Which is handy. I would have to go out of the way for Canidae, but I will if it's a better food. Is Nutro better than Canidae?

[sammy101]

Nutro is good? Is it better than Purina 1? I have seen it in Wal-Mart, Which is handy. I would have to go out of the way for Canidae, but I will if it's a better food. Is Nutro better than Canidae?

Nutro isnt better than Canidae,but much better than Purina. I dont think they sell Nutro in walmart, i havent seen it here :confused: . I have to go to Petsmart or a specialty pet food store to get it.

Heres what mine get.
http://www.nutroproducts.com/ncdogsmbites.asp

[cali]

canadae is better then Nutro, but Nutro is a pretty decent food compared to grocey store brands.

[GreyhoundGirl]

I've seen it locally, anyways, might have been at a grocery store, though. I would get it at petsmart, but the closest petsmart (or any big pet store ) is about 3 hours away.

What do you have to say about Nutro? Like teeth conditions, coat, ect.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Yes, I made the video.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

Nutro cannot be found at any grocery store, Wal-Mart, etc. It is only found in pet stores. All of my dogs were on Nutro ever since I was born, up until recently. They were all very healthy, and did well on it. I wouldn't classify it as a wonderful food but it is better than Purina, Iams, or any of the other grocery store brands. When mine were eating Nutro (Natural Choice Lamb & Rice) they had beautiful, shiny coats, decent teeth (you're never going to have great looking teeth on any kibble), etc. Now I, aswell as my parents feed California Natural as Winston wasn't doing well on the Nutro (He doesn't do well on most foods, so it had nothing to do with the Nutro food really). Like I said though, I'd definitely recommend Nutro over any grocery store brand. I had no problems with it, except I knew/know that there are better out there.

[Lady's Human]

I sincerely doubt that there is enough salt in a dry dog food to see the salt crystals on the food. If that were the case salt would be in the top 5 ingredients on the label. There are many, many additives to both human and animal food that appear to be white crystals. (Citrates, potassium chloride, sulphates, etc.)

Your Mom is right, Chicken can be a source of salmonella.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Your Mom is right, Chicken can be a source of salmonella.
Yes, and as long as you wash your hands after serving and touching the chicken, it's fine. Salmonella does NOT affect dogs.

[Lady's Human]

Salmonella DOES affect dogs, it's just less likely for it to affect a dog than a human.

[I_luv_rusty]

Yes, and as long as you wash your hands after serving and touching the chicken, it's fine. Salmonella does NOT affect dogs.

I though that too! :confused:

[Roxyluvsme13]

Yeah, but there's more chance of your dog getting salmonella from dog food than from Raw chicken.

[Lady's Human]

From a Canadian veterinary study of commercial raw diets:


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1140397

Isolation of Salmonella spp. from 20% of raw diets was of concern, but it was not surprising, based on earlier reports. Salmonella sp. is a recognized pathogen of a variety of species, and salmonellosis has been reported in dogs and cats fed raw food contaminated with Salmonella spp.

[k9krazee]

My dogs all were fed Iams up until about 6 month ago and I convinced my mom (who was a huge Iams fan) to switch to Nutro. Eventually, when I get my own place, or move back with my parents and I'm financially stable enough I will feed Raw. My parents just aren't comfortable with it, and if I was still living at home I would make the switch in a heartbeat but sadly can't at this time.

But from Iams to Nutro I did notice a change in the dawgs. Micki had horrible allergy outbreaks all the time and his armpits would become inflamed and red along with the inside of his back legs. After the switch it gradually all went away, I was impressed! No amount of any other medications would clear it up.

[areias]

Nutro is good? Is it better than Purina 1? I have seen it in Wal-Mart, Which is handy. I would have to go out of the way for Canidae, but I will if it's a better food. Is Nutro better than Canidae?

Blehh, I really really don't like Purina One. I'm going to switch to Eagle Pack or Solid Gold, I think, now that I only have one dog.

As for raw, I never really post about it, for fear of debate..not that I don't believe in it, but I don't feel that it is necessary, and that is my personal opinion. Although I'm sure your moms opinions on raw are not well founded, maybe you can try educating some more. Get your vet's opinion on it around her, (as long as he isn't paid by iams to promote it). :)

[Sevaede]

I would say try digging up some of the old raw threads, maybe join a raw yahoo group, dig around on the net, and call your vet (or others). Collect all your information together and present it to her. :)

Nutro IS at all of my local Wal Marts. I have seen it there every time I have gone to Wal Mart for the past few months as that is the very first place I go. They have the dry kibble and wet food.

[bckrazy]

Nutro IS at all of my local Wal Marts.

That is bizarre! I wish every W*M carried better foods such as Nutro. =/ Mine most definitely does not.

About Raw, I honestly feel you need to do a lot of research. Like, less than a week ago, you were saying you would never feed RMB's right? Join the Raw fed Yahoo group, Rawdogs on Livejournal, and look at the Lonsdale free downloads for the books RMB's Promote Health and Work Wonders... to start. ;) If you show your Mom that you are doing loads of research, and write down big pointers for her, that should help. You should definitely improve her diet as best you can until you're ready for Raw as well as your family. Nutro NC would be a big improvement, but even better would be a premium kibble that is available at feed or specialty stores (Solid Gold, Canidae, Chicken Soup, Innova, California Natural, Eagle Pack, to name a few).

[wolfsoul]

From a Canadian veterinary study of commercial raw diets:


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1140397

Isolation of Salmonella spp. from 20% of raw diets was of concern, but it was not surprising, based on earlier reports. Salmonella sp. is a recognized pathogen of a variety of species, and salmonellosis has been reported in dogs and cats fed raw food contaminated with Salmonella spp.
The study does not go into detail about whether or not the diet was fed properly. Yes, dogs are able to become sick from salmonella -- however, the wide variety of salmonellosis cases are due to rawhide. My vet has had a good amount of salmonella cases over the years, even before she became raw-focused, and it has all led back to rawhide. Due to it being difficult to digest, holding the bacteria back in the system and allowing it time to affect the dog. The same goes for raw meat -- if the raw meat is fed with grains or cooked food, it may be held back too long. The study you quoted does not go into detail about each of the situations involved, if the diet was fed properly, if there may have been other factors or contributing factors, etc. It is my opinion that dogs have a much higher chance of contracting salmonellosis from kibble or cooked food -- Kibble stored unproperly is more likely to absorb moisture and attract airborne salmonella -- Kibble causes plaque which stays in the mouth and on the teeth of the dog -- But in general, it's not something you need to worry about when feeding any diet. Dogs have strong disgestive systems that are identical to that of a wolf. Wolves also have less contributing factors that could lead to salmonella posioning.

No, a dog will not get salmonella poisoning from raw meat alone.

[Lady's Human]

The study was about salmonella contamination in food sources. Salmonella is not an airborne bacteria, it is spread through contact or ingestion. A high amount of salmonella bacteria in a food source can cause salmonella poisoning in ANY animal, depending on the strain of the bacteria.

[GreyhoundGirl]

I thought dogs didn't get salmonella from raw chicken, doesn't it have something to do with their strong immune systems? I though I read that somewere.

It seems like Jenny is changing foods often, she is just getting used to purina 1, and than my mom goes out and buys a bag of Iams. :( I will be sure to get Nutro next time, it sounds good. Right now I have to finish the purina than start and finish the new Iams. Hopefully my mom will let her stick to nutro, instead of " accidentally" going out and buying more Iams. :rolleyes:

[BOBS DAD]

I'm trying to get my mother to belive me about the gains of feeding raw. I have tried to get her to belive you countless people out there... Do you guys know any good dry food?

Please help.

Is your girl a Greyhound??? I've seen your siggy countless times but never made the connection. She looks unusual in her markings.

Is your dog happy and generally healthy - as far as you and her vet can tell???

Then I would not really worry about the food she is eating. It seems to be nutritious and keeping her well. I know there are a lot of RAW Advocates here on site, but I am not sure that it has been generally "concluded" that nothing else works!

It reminds me of Human diet debates in a way. Some people are Vegetarians "and say that everything else is poisoning your system and BAD for you". Yet many meat eaters live into their 90's - just like Vegetarians. Some people eat only poultry and NO RED MEAT. Now poultry is gonna give you the Bird Flu. I say follow your best instincts and watch your dog's health... just as you would your own. If you see any signs of declining health, then consider changing her diet - adding to or taking away things.

[Vela]

In my opinion, I think everyone should research what goes into the food they feed their dogs, which is really easy to do nowdays with the internet, find out if you feel comfortable feeding that. If not try to find the best food YOU can afford, kibble or raw, etc., that your dog does well on, and use that. I personally have swtiched over to mostly raw, with occasional Innova Evo or Evo RM (red meat) for breakfast sometimes. Dinner is always raw, and often breakfast as well. I can tell you that my nearly crippled dog with horrid breath and overweight (couldn't exercise due to pain in back hips and legs), is now running, playing, and jumping. She is on no pain medications, no extra joint supplements and has lost quite a bit of weight. I can't imagine feeding anything else now, but that's what works for me and my dogs, everyone has to decide what works for them and their dogs best.

I will say, don't knock raw until you've tried it, and don't make snap judgements that it's unhealthy unless you have actually tried it. If it was so uhealthy my dogs wouldn't be doing so much better, and they were on Canidae and Chicken Soup dog foods before the switch, so they weren't eating garbage food before either.

[wolfsoul]

The study was about salmonella contamination in food sources. Salmonella is not an airborne bacteria, it is spread through contact or ingestion. A high amount of salmonella bacteria in a food source can cause salmonella poisoning in ANY animal, depending on the strain of the bacteria.
Salmonella can be airborne -- My grandmother has lung disease from inhaling airborne salmonella. It is mostly found in hatheries and other bird environments but is not limited to those and can be found in the household.

The U.S.D.A. also performed another study to test the effectiveness of negative ionization at removing airborne Salmonella Enteritidis. The negative ions drastically reduced the airborne salmonella particles
http://www.negative-ion-generators.com/ion_studies.php

[Lady's Human]

Yes, salmonella can be airborne, but the main sources are in poultry houses, where is becomes airborne from dust contaminated with feces.

The site you quote for "negative Ion Generators" is a pseudo-scientific sales pitch, AKA snake oil salesmen of the 21st century.

BTW, "negative Ion Generators" would be more appropriately called Ozone generators. Ozone at ground level is a BAD thing, unless being used for a specific purpose, such as using it as PART of an antimicrobial filter system.

[dragondawg]

Myth 1: Dogs can not get Salmonella from a Raw Diet.

Any animal can host a Salmonella bacteria. The only rate limiting factor is how in tune the species and serotype is with the host. Likewise any animal can get sick on the toxins producted by the Salmonella no matter what the serotype, or original native host.

Let's start with an article that proves there's at least one Salmonella species capable of producing an enteric infection in a dog

Salmonella infection of dog (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6495294&query_hl=16&itool=pubmed_DocSum)

In the second reference article The investigation was conducted at the request of a Greyhound breeder. The article does not describe the symptoms present. Wonder why a breeder would result such an epidemiology study?

Salmonella vs raw diet on a breeding farm (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16677120&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)

Note the conclusions of the study: Feeding meat that had not been cooked properly, particularly meat classified as unfit for human consumption, likely contributed to the infections in these dogs. Unless you are getting the chicken parts certified by the USDA from the store then by definition it's unfit for human consumption.

The third article did some analysis on commercial Raw dog food.

Raw sold to the public (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16478425&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)

Salmonella enterica was recovered from 17 (5.9%) samples, all of which were raw meat products.

In general the following can be concluded per typical Salmonella contamination of a raw food diet:

1. A healthy young dog may be able to readily ward off infections caused by consumption of low numbers of Salmonella.

2. An older or immune compromised dog may not be able to cope with eating salmonella infected meat.

3. No dog will be able to escape illness if they consume meat where the Salmonella have previous grown and produced toxins.

But the dangers of a raw food diet do not stop with the dog. There is a lot of discussion about the feeding of a raw diet increasing the chances of the dog passing Salmonella infections to their owners, where the very young and old are in danger.

In browsing around I ran across this article that discussed other disease agents in a raw diet. For those who believe it's ok to feed raw pork:

Aujeszky's disease (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=2500809&query_hl=26&itool=pubmed_docsum)

The most dangerous virus infection to be transmitted to cats and dogs via raw pork leftovers is Aujeszky's disease. The dog or cat, which is the last link in the infection chain, suffers an agonizing death.

If I were feed raw chicken to my dogs, I'd be tossing the pieces into boiling water for a couple of minutes to scald the surface contamination. But then again, I'd cook the meat period, as there's no reason not to.

[GreyhoundGirl]

Is your girl a Greyhound??? I've seen your siggy countless times but never made the connection. She looks unusual in her markings.

Is your dog happy and generally healthy - as far as you and her vet can tell???

Then I would not really worry about the food she is eating. It seems to be nutritious and keeping her well. I know there are a lot of RAW Advocates here on site, but I am not sure that it has been generally "concluded" that nothing else works!

It reminds me of Human diet debates in a way. Some people are Vegetarians "and say that everything else is poisoning your system and BAD for you". Yet many meat eaters live into their 90's - just like Vegetarians. Some people eat only poultry and NO RED MEAT. Now poultry is gonna give you the Bird Flu. I say follow your best instincts and watch your dog's health... just as you would your own. If you see any signs of declining health, then consider changing her diet - adding to or taking away things.

Actually, her markings are VERY common. I have seen many pics in greyhound books thgat look EXACTLY like her. Here are some random adoptable greyhounds that looks just like her: http://www.gracanada.com/Images/gra_jun16_06/churl.jpg
http://www.gracanada.com/Images/gra_jun16_06/scram.jpg
http://www.gracanada.com/Images/gra_apr30_06/jayjay.jpg
http://www.gracanada.com/Images/gra_jun16_06/derri.jpg

And she is quite healthy, has lots of energy and appetite. ( except for the lump on her side, which still hasn't done anything )

Although her " loads" haven't been as healthy while on Iams.

[dragondawg]

Myth 1: Dogs can not get Salmonella from a Raw Diet.

Any animal can host a Salmonella bacteria. The only rate limiting factor is how in tune the species and serotype is with the host. Likewise any animal can get sick on the toxins producted by the Salmonella no matter what the serotype, or original native host.

Let's start with an article that proves there's at least one Salmonella species capable of producing an enteric infection in a dog

Salmonella infection of dog (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6495294&query_hl=16&itool=pubmed_DocSum)

In the second reference article The investigation was conducted at the request of a Greyhound breeder. The article does not describe the symptoms present. Wonder why a breeder would result such an epidemiology study?

Salmonella vs raw diet on a breeding farm (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16677120&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)

Note the conclusions of the study: Feeding meat that had not been cooked properly, particularly meat classified as unfit for human consumption, likely contributed to the infections in these dogs. Unless you are getting the chicken parts certified by the USDA from the store then by definition it's unfit for human consumption.

The third article did some analysis on commercial Raw dog food.

Raw sold to the public (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16478425&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)

Salmonella enterica was recovered from 17 (5.9%) samples, all of which were raw meat products.

In general the following can be concluded per typical Salmonella contamination of a raw food diet:

1. A healthy young dog may be able to readily ward off infections caused by consumption of low numbers of Salmonella.

2. An older or immune compromised dog may not be able to cope with eating salmonella infected meat.

3. No dog will be able to escape illness if they consume meat where the Salmonella have previous grown and produced toxins.

But the dangers of a raw food diet do not stop with the dog. There is a lot of discussion about the feeding of a raw diet increasing the chances of the dog passing Salmonella infections to their owners, where the very young and old are in danger.

In browsing around I ran across this article that discussed other disease agents in a raw diet. For those who believe it's ok to feed raw pork:

Aujeszky's disease (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=2500809&query_hl=26&itool=pubmed_docsum)

The most dangerous virus infection to be transmitted to cats and dogs via raw pork leftovers is Aujeszky's disease. The dog or cat, which is the last link in the infection chain, suffers an agonizing death.

If I were feed raw chicken to my dogs, I'd be tossing the pieces into boiling water for a couple of minutes to scald the surface contamination. But then again, I'd cook the meat period, as there's no reason not to.

[dragondawg]

I'm trying to get my mother to belive me about the gains of feeding raw. I have tried to get her to belive you countless people out there, but she keeps going on and on and on about how the best thing you can feed a dog is Iams. I found a lot of websites and threads and such, but she just won't belive me. She says things like "all these people say that they are vets and such, but for all you know they are all a bunch of wierd-os" " dogs can't live on chicken and eggs " " chicken has salmonella "

As an ex-Microbiologist I guess I qualify as one of those bonifide wierdos. Why don't you pick your favorite top 3 reasons to feed raw from lot of websites and threads and such and I'll refute em?

I'll tell ya the first thoughts I have when visiting one of the Raw sites:

1. This will be religion not science.

2. Are they selling anything connected with Raw food, or readily have links on the front page to those who do sell (e.g. receive payments for clinks on the links)? In another words do they have economic gain to make?

3. How long will it take for them to attack the medical or commercial dog food establishment, with distortions?

4. How long will it take before they dig up half truths and present it as fact with no scientific journal citations? This is rapidly followed by personal testimonials as though that justifies the claims?

There is no benefit of feeding raw over a high quality commercial dog food. If you wish to feed your dog a balanced raw diet then that is a choice being made by you. It is a human decision based on human perceptions about food. Night after night when my dogs finish their Propet dry dog food in 20-30 secs for one dog, and about 1.5 minutes for the other I do not worry too much about them liking the taste. When I ask them if they want to eat the female lets out a woo woo woo, while the male runs into the kitchen and stands by his bowl. I interpret that as a positive sign that they enjoy their food. When they come upstairs after they are done eating and proceed to come over to me for pets wagging their tails, I do not suffer any guilt for having fed them that nasty commercial dry dog food. I'll side with your mommy-person. Iams or some other high quality dog food will do just fine.

[Roxyluvsme13]

For one, Iams is not a high quality dog food. Have you seen the crap in it? Haven't countless raw feeders argued with you before? I have seen benefits from feeding Raw, and if I had the chance I would go back to it.

[cali]

There is no benefit of feeding raw over a high quality commercial dog food


tell that one to Shadow, now 10 years old after being on her deathbed at 4 years old, vets said she would notlive to be 5, she could not even stand up, rather then put her down like reccomened we switched to raw, she is currently 10 years old and showing zero signs of arthritus, her intestinal problems caused by her spay also vannished. every one of my dogs has benifited greatly from the switch. I have alos heard many people talk like you then when they ran out of ideas they tried raw and their tune changed real fast.

[Vela]

tell that one to Shadow, now 10 years old after being on her deathbed at 4 years old, vets said she would notlive to be 5, she could not even stand up, rather then put her down like reccomened we switched to raw, she is currently 10 years old and showing zero signs of arthritus, her intestinal problems caused by her spay also vannished. every one of my dogs has benifited greatly from the switch. I have alos heard many people talk like you then when they ran out of ideas they tried raw and their tune changed real fast.


I agree, raw has done wonders for my crippled dog, she's like a whole new dog. My "perfectly healthy" dog, who had no apparent health issues, also has more energy, better stools, better haircoat.


There is no benefit of feeding raw over a high quality commercial dog food. If you wish to feed your dog a balanced raw diet then that is a choice being made by you. It is a human decision based on human perceptions about food. Night after night when my dogs finish their Propet dry dog food in 20-30 secs for one dog, and about 1.5 minutes for the other I do not worry too much about them liking the taste. When I ask them if they want to eat the female lets out a woo woo woo, while the male runs into the kitchen and stands by his bowl. I interpret that as a positive sign that they enjoy their food. When they come upstairs after they are done eating and proceed to come over to me for pets wagging their tails, I do not suffer any guilt for having fed them that nasty commercial dry dog food. I'll side with your mommy-person. Iams or some other high quality dog food will do just fine.


In actuality, KIBBLE is what is perceived by humans to be dog food, if you were to put both down, most dogs would choose the meat, at least once they realized they could eat it. PEOPLE make kibble and people are the ones who decided it was the best food for dogs. So saying raw is human's perception of what a dog should eat makes no sense to say, since kibble is also a perception of what humans think a dog should eat. I don't care if someone feeds raw or not, but don't bash it just because you choose not to feed it. Nothing makes you right more than anyone else. PERSONALLY my dogs do much better on raw and the health problems they DID have, while being fed a high quality dog food, Chicken Soup and Canidae, have virtualy disappeared. If you don't want to feed it fine then don't, but that doesn't make it wrong to do and many many many dogs get nothing but great benefits from it. You can try to dispute my dog's health to me all day, but I'm the one who lives with them, so I see for myself and your "refutations" about raw feeding mean nothing to me.

[CathyBogart]

There is no benefit of feeding raw over a high quality commercial dog food. Iams or some other high quality dog food will do just fine.

When I got Jasper, I switched him to Innova EVO from what he was on, and I saw improvement....but I saw room for more improvement with the raw diet, and I've seen him go LEAPS AND BOUNDS beyond what he was like on Innova.

Iams is not a high-end dog food IMO...just reading the ingredients tells me that it's not something I'd want to feed my dog.

Try one night perhaps setting down a bowl of dog food and a bowl of beef, and see which the dogs go for.

[Glacier]

PERSONALLY my dogs do much better on raw and the health problems they DID have, while being fed a high quality dog food.

Really, isn't that what matters? It works for your dogs! We all need to do what works best for our own dogs, our lifestyle and our budget. I feed my dogs a half raw-half kibble diet. Last night they ate moose, tonight I feel lazy and they are getting kibble, a good quality kibble, but just kibble! I get told all the time that mixing them is simply terrible for any dog, but every musher I know feeds the same kind of diet and my dogs are all generally in dang good health. They have shiny coats, bright eyes, enough energy to pull a sled for 1000's of kilometres a year, ect, ect.

I have a dog who was starved by her first owner. Kayleigh weighs 108 pounds now, which is perfect for her. She was below 70 pounds when I got her. It's taken years to undo the damage her first owner did to her in other ways. She will never forget being hungry. Five years after I adopted her, she still hides food in her doghouse, just in case I suddenly forget to feed her one night! She lives alone because she'd kill another dog who got too close to her bone or anything else she thinks might be edible. Since I got Kayleigh, I find it difficult to care too much about what other people feed their dogs...Just feed them...feed them the best quality food that you can find, afford and that fits in with the rest of your lifestyle!

[Lady's Human]

My issue with many of the posts about RAW isn't with the raw diet itself, but rather with the perpetual myths that are posted in defense of it. There are possible microbial and other health issues involved, and takes a lot of research and effort to do properly.

Another irritation I have with many of the raw posts is the continuing myth that commercial dog food is bad. The evil additives that are constantly harped on are nothing more than a chemical replacements for vitamins and minerals that an animal needs for good health. Do you take vitamins? "Natural" supplements ? You're ingesting the same chemicals listed on a bag of dog food, in the saame form, with a different label. Preservatives? preservatives are present in food in such minute amounts that they have little to no biological effect. For example, (from the human side) a batch of syrup for soda contains 20 lbs of sodium benzoate. sounds like a lot, right? Not after you do the math, and figure out that that benzoate is distributed through 192000 pounds of product. It winds up in the parts per million range. How does it wind up on the ingredient list before flavoring? It doesn't take much orange oil to flavor the soda by weight. ANYTHING put into the product by the manufacturer has to be listed, which is why something that may be in the parts per million or parts per billion range is listed. Media reports showing that benzoate, for example, is a harmful additive don't give you the whole story. The amounts tested are frequently far in excess of what one would normally encounter in a diet. The most infamous example of this is saccharin. Yes, it can cause cancer. However, at the levels tested in the study that essentially pushed it off the market damned near ANYTHING would cause cancer. (It worked out to drinking 20 cases of soda containing saccharin per day for the rest of your life, IIRC. By that time you'd be in severe abdonminal distress from the acid you consumed, never mind the saccharin)

I can find studies proving that sugar is lethal (not over long term, lethal as a short term effect), water is lethal, the list could run forever. Just because it's published doesn't mean it's accurate or realistic.

False "scientific" claims drive me nuts in any form, whether involving dog food or nuclear power.

If your dog is doing well on a diet, that's fine, continue feeding it. Please don't try to push it on others or make others feel bad about what they are feeding their pet with dubious scientific claims.

[CagneyDog]

If your dog is doing well on a diet, that's fine, continue feeding it. Please don't try to push it on others or make others feel bad about what they are feeding their pet with dubious scientific claims.

I wouldn't really say that "pushing" is the right word. It's a recomendation, as are most things on a forum. You promote things that work, whether it be toys, food, kennels etc. I've learned a lot from people such as .sarah and bckrazy explaining the diet and I can't comprehend how you could see information as "pushing" it on others. After all, if you don't want anything to do with raw, don't even open the threads!

[Lady's Human]

I would say pushing is the right word. How many dog food threads asking about a good kibble have turned into a raw forum, inevitably with the comment that commercial dog food is bad?

[Kfamr]

It's not like anyone here is threatening someone if they don't feed raw. Nor does anyone look down on someone for feeding kibble. I've never seen anyone say dog food is bad. I've never seen anyone say that there aren't risks to feeding raw, however they ARE very, very slim. I believe being fed kibble there are higher risks involved.

Often times people ask what type of dog food they should feed their dogs. Raw food IS dog food, therefore people mention it and suggest it. It has worked wonders for many dog owners here, myself included.

There are times where someone has had a health problem with their dog's where a change in diet may help. Raw is often mentioned because many believe it to be the best we can provide for our dogs, again, myself include.


I for one am quite sick of false information being spread about raw and so-called "high quality" dog foods. There is not a bowl dog food out there that will reach the nutritional value of a bowl of raw food - wether your dog enjoys it or not.



As for the OP, stick in there.
When you become financially supportive of yourself and your dog, look into it. Until then, research, research, research!!

[Lady's Human]

I've never seen anyone say dog food is bad

followed by....


I for one am quite sick of false information being spread about raw and so-called "high quality" dog foods. There is not a bowl dog food out there that will reach the nutritional value of a bowl of raw food - wether your dog enjoys it or not.

Nuff said.

or


For one, Iams is not a high quality dog food. Have you seen the crap in it?


Or from a thread asking about a good kibble....


Why not feed her raw , its like people food and better for her.

Raw is like a religion. Not suported by science, but it's impossible to convince the true believers that there's another way.

[CagneyDog]

I for one am quite sick of false information being spread about raw and so-called "high quality" dog foods. There is not a bowl dog food out there that will reach the nutritional value of a bowl of raw food - wether your dog enjoys it or not

Perhaps you just don't understand raw vs. kibble. :) She did not say that Kibble was bad, she said that it would not reach the nutritional value of raw. This is a fact.



For one, Iams is not a high quality dog food. Have you seen the crap in it?

This is also a fact. Iams is not good dog food. She never said, all dog foods are crap?

I'm a little confused and I think you're reading in to this too much.


Not suported by science, but it's impossible to convince the true believers that there's another way.

The funny thing is that most of the true believers started, switched, and saw the great changes.

[Kfamr]

You aren't proving anything here. Not one time have I said kibble is bad, neither were any of those statement implying that. Maybe you comprehend them different than intended.

Yes, Iams is not a quality kibble. Will a dog live off of it? Of course! And I'll live off of McDonalds.

You keep saying raw is a religion, therefor dry dog kibble is a religion too. :rolleyes: I do not need anyone's scientific opinion to see the improvement in my animal's health.

[Lady's Human]

As to raw or kibble being a religion......

Show me a double blind study of raw that doesn't have holes in it big enough to drive a truck through, and I'll believe the benefits. Anything short of that is anecdotal.

[.sarah]

I think the best "study" of how great raw is, is the fact that dogs and wolves have been living on it for millions of years. Kibble has been around for, what, 60 years? And how many diseases are we seeing frequently in pets these days?

[Kfamr]

As I said, I do not base it on "studies", I base it on my own experience. The improvement in my three very healthy animals is enough for me.

Their teeth: On kibble, yellow and built up. Raw bones are cleaning them right up.

Their stools: A good consistency, small

Their coats: I have not had to bathe them in weeks. Nala's has especially improved. On Nutro kibble she used to get a nasty film on her coat. They do not smell whatsoever, not even when they come in from outside.

Their overall energy: My almost 9 year old is a lot more active. He doesn't tire as easily.


There's my studies for you, and if you don't believe in them, that's your issue.

[CathyBogart]

As to raw or kibble being a religion......

Show me a double blind study of raw that doesn't have holes in it big enough to drive a truck through, and I'll believe the benefits. Anything short of that is anecdotal.

Yes, but the anecdotal evidence in Raw's favor is OVERWHELMING.

[wolf_Q]

I'm tired of the dog food debate. I think as long as you do some research and feed what you feel is best for what you can afford, then you are doing the best for your dog. Questions and information are great, it’s good to look into what is best for your dog......arguing, is not.

People may not have come out and said it exact, but I, personally, have gotten the impression many times that certain members here do look down upon you if you do not feed raw. It seems that at the moment raw is "in" and if you're not in the raw group then you're not taking as good of care of your dog.

Please come meet my mostly kibble (high quality) fed dog with a nice thick soft coat, perfectly clean teeth (brushing), healthy weight and tell me he isn't in as good of shape as a raw fed dog. ;)

I am not against any dog food diet--raw, homecooked, good kibble with the exception of very low quality kibble filled with just by-products/grains. If your dog is healthy and happy then you are doing great!

Ok, off my soap box now. ;)

[Lady's Human]

A valid study would contain at least three groups, preferably large groups,with members of each study group with similar if not identical genetic lines to eliminate health problems of genetic origin. One group fed strictly raw, one fed kibble, one fed a mixed diet. The only variable for the study to be valid can be the diet. No environmental variables, all exercised the same, etc.

Until that happens, please leave the pseudo scientific pap out of the discussion, and admit that anecdotal evidence (as in my dog is .........) is just that. Anecdotal evidence.

[Glacier]

Yes, but the anecdotal evidence in Raw's favor is OVERWHELMING.

And if you look for it, you'll find just as much negative anecdotal evidence about raw--about any particular brand of kibble, any drug, any supplement. Anecdotal evidence always goes both ways.

[Kfamr]

I'm sorry, I do believe I have every right to include my positive raw feeding, just like you have ever right to go against it. I'm not telling you not to express anything.

[binka_nugget]

Thanks Amy, that was exactly what I was thinking. I'm SOOO incredibly tired of the constant raw vs kibble debate.

Plain and simple, feed something that your dog does well on, and something you're comfortable feeding.. whether it's kibble, or homecooked, or raw.

I am a raw feeder, and I am a believer in the diet. I absolutely do not recommend that anyone feed raw if they aren't comfortable with it. No one's making you believe in it. It's your choice, your decision. Don't like the idea? Fine. Leave it be and stop bickering.

Personal experiences and scientific facts are great. But really, how many times can we go back and forth from "raw bad, raw good" argument?

[Lady's Human]

Actually, my point here isn't that raw is good, bad or otherwise. Feed whatever you want as long as the dog is healthy. My point is merely a request to stop using falsehoods (example:dogs don't get salmonella) as support for your statements for or against raw, and stop knocking down kibble as a good food. If you did a search in here for AAFCO, you would find statements left and right that XYZ ingredient is bad, therefore kibble is bad, with little to no scientific evidence backing up the statements.

Making a statement like "My dog does better on raw" is fine. Making a statement like " Raw is better than kibble" with nothing other than anecdotal evidence is absurd.

[CagneyDog]

Making a statement like "My dog does better on raw" is fine. Making a statement like " Raw is better than kibble" with nothing other than anecdotal evidence is absurd.

We've provided evidence, you shot it all down.

[bckrazy]

"There is no benefit of feeding raw over a high quality commercial dog food."

Aha ahahaha. Ha. :)

I'm sorry, but that incredible blanket statement just made me giggle. I've heard of/met waaay too many sick kibble-fed dogs that have done a 180 on Raw to even consider commenting on that. And also what it has done for my pups!

Aren't we all at PT to not only discuss and share the love for our dogs, but also to learn more? As long as members are not giving out false or misleading information, why is that a problem? Didn't you notice that myself and others actually advised the OP to continue researching before switching to a Raw diet!? It's not like all the Raw-feeders jumped on her and said "Ohhh it's fine just throw some chicken at your dog." Not at all.

The only thing I truly tire of, is (I am not speaking of PT in particular, other boards & groups as well) people who actually discourage researching premium kibbles & Raw diets. People who say "If your dog looks OK to you eating grocery story food, stick with that!". It's crazy. Being well-informed and educating yourself in ANY area of our pets' health/behavior/life should be encouraged, IMO.

About every kibble recommendation thread mentioning Raw, so what? If that is what you feed, and you have seen wonderful results, why not recommend feeding it to others? Anyway, that is seriously an exaggeration... I just went to Dog Health and found p l e n t y of threads that do not even mention it, only recommendations for kibbles. I recommend kibble that in my experience are good quality (with studying nutrition, working at a feed store with a Vet as my manager, and feeding Gonzo a variety of foods over the years) all the time. I feed kibble occasionally. But I will never give up the benefits of Raw to both of my boys, Gonzo especially has done incredibly well on it! I did not even know how healthy he *could* be, until I switched to Raw. Of COURSE I would want to share that with others, and emphatically encourage them to research it & see if it's possible for them, because I want them to experience all of those benefits as well.

[Vela]

"There is no benefit of feeding raw over a high quality commercial dog food."

Aha ahahaha. Ha. :)

I'm sorry, but that incredible blanket statement just made me giggle. I've heard of/met waaay too many sick kibble-fed dogs that have done a 180 on Raw to even consider commenting on that. And also what it has done for my pups!

Aren't we all at PT to not only discuss and share the love for our dogs, but also to learn more? As long as members are not giving out false or misleading information, why is that a problem? Didn't you notice that myself and others actually advised the OP to continue researching before switching to a Raw diet!? It's not like all the Raw-feeders jumped on her and said "Ohhh it's fine just throw some chicken at your dog." Not at all.

The only thing I truly tire of, is (I am not speaking of PT in particular, other boards & groups as well) people who actually discourage researching premium kibbles & Raw diets. People who say "If your dog looks OK to you eating grocery story food, stick with that!". It's crazy. Being well-informed and educating yourself in ANY area of our pets' health/behavior/life should be encouraged, IMO.

About every kibble recommendation thread mentioning Raw, so what? If that is what you feed, and you have seen wonderful results, why not recommend feeding it to others? Anyway, that is seriously an exaggeration... I just went to Dog Health and found p l e n t y of threads that do not even mention it, only recommendations for kibbles. I recommend kibble that in my experience are good quality (with studying nutrition, working at a feed store with a Vet as my manager, and feeding Gonzo a variety of foods over the years) all the time. I feed kibble occasionally. But I will never give up the benefits of Raw to both of my boys, Gonzo especially has done incredibly well on it! I did not even know how healthy he *could* be, until I switched to Raw. Of COURSE I would want to share that with others, and emphatically encourage them to research it & see if it's possible for them, because I want them to experience all of those benefits as well.

I agree with the above. I also have no problem with people feeding kibble, or raw, I just feel that there is always more to learn, and why NOT try to find out more information about dog foods and your dog's health so you can provide the best? I see people against raw bashing the heck out of it and yet honestly, if you haven't tried it for yourself, why are you bashing it? I feed a mostly raw and kibble diet. I use Innova Evo on days when I need to, and they do fine with that. All dog food is NOT created equal, and people saying feed whatever dog kibble is all the same, that it doesn't matter what is in it is just not even an intelligent statement in any manner. Yes dogs do fine on kibble, but dogs do great on raw, and often times have fewer health problems. ANYTHING you feed your dog ought to be looked into and researched. KIbble is not just kibble, there are so many different kinds, and some of that stuff is horrible for a dog's health. That does not make all kibble bad, but there is a vast difference in the health of dogs just based on what is fed. Someone who feeds a lower quality dog food thinks their dog is doing fine, but unless they TRY something else, whether it's a higher quality kibble with better ingredients, raw, home cooked, whatever, they have no idea how different their dog COULD be doing and in most cases how much better their health could be. I'm not pushing any diet, for ME raw works best but "gasp" I also feed kibble on occasion. I take issue with the dog food companies trying to push garbage on peopel as quality dog food but I also take issue with people being blind, when there is so much information available, and not even trying to see if there is somehting better and just blatantly bashing something they know nothing about because THEY don't feed it or do it. I'm not pushing raw, I am interested in everyone feeding their dogs the best they can for its health, because every dog deserves to feel its best. I have always said that people should research what they feed their dog and feed what they feel best about. I for one have never bashed anyone for feeding kibble or raw, but I have emphasized the need to research and try to feed the best foods you can based on ingredients. I see no harm in suggesting that.

[Lady's Human]

BcK,

It is the false and misleading information that drives me nuts, not the discussions about raw or premium kibbles.

[dragondawg]

Didn't you notice that myself and others actually advised the OP to continue researching before switching to a Raw diet!? It's not like all the Raw-feeders jumped on her and said "Ohhh it's fine just throw some chicken at your dog." Not at all...People who say "If your dog looks OK to you eating grocery story food, stick with that!". It's crazy.

Let's see if we got the progression right:

1. Advocate raw feeding, but of course research it before starting.
2. If anyone advocates the evil commercial food as being equal based on the dog's apperance then they are crazy.

But let's focus on the statement


It's not like all the Raw-feeders jumped on her and said "Ohhh it's fine just throw some chicken at your dog." Not at all.

and do a tie in to this one from another poster


Yes dogs do fine on kibble, but dogs do great on raw, and often times have fewer health problems.

Let's see now I look at my two 3-yr old dogs and see their coats in good condition, ideal weight, high energy levels, no allergies, no metabolic problems, no reoccuring infections. What have I left out? The Vet says they are in excellent health. Question: Is it possible to have fewer health problems than no health problems? But yet based on your criteria both the Vet and I must be crazy, because it's just impossible that my dogs have no known health problems. How could one have fewer than none, feeding that evil commercial dog food?

I chuckle at the almost religious zeal with no scientific basis that is used to discredit those who would dare to think a commercial dog food is equivalent to raw feeding. I have been told here that I am crazy for thinking my dogs are healthy (by looking at them), and that they could be doing so much better implying that I could be doing better by my dogs. In another thread I have someone telling me that meat by-products and corn in a dog food makes it a bad dog food. Therefore not only am I falling short on their care, but now I'm feeding them a bad dog food to boot! It gets better with every thread. I wouldn't doubt that someday I'll read that feeding dogs a commercial dog food is the equivalent of abusing your dog. LOL But then again I take comfort in knowing that no one can disprove the statement: There is no benefit of feeding raw over a high quality commercial dog food.

[Vela]

LOL whatever floats your boat dude, have fun with the chip on your shoulder. Nobody said all dogs have to be fed raw not to have health problems. Yes corn and by products aren't great ingredients, but that's rather moot. Case in FACT as witnessed in my own dogs, SOME dogs with health problems can benefit from eating a raw diet, as far as their health goes. Nobody said it was a cure all to every health problem out there, and nobody said that dogs can't be healthy on kibble. Not one person said that. Enjoy your vastly superior knowledge safe and secure in the fact that your dogs are just fine, and nobody said otherwise. Have a nice day.

[dragondawg]

I agree, raw has done wonders for my crippled dog, she's like a whole new dog. My "perfectly healthy" dog, who had no apparent health issues, also has more energy, better stools, better haircoat.




PEOPLE make kibble and people are the ones who decided it was the best food for dogs. So saying raw is human's perception of what a dog should eat makes no sense to say, since kibble is also a perception of what humans think a dog should eat. I don't care if someone feeds raw or not, but don't bash it just because you choose not to feed it. Nothing makes you right more than anyone else. PERSONALLY my dogs do much better on raw and the health problems they DID have, while being fed a high quality dog food, Chicken Soup and Canidae, have virtualy disappeared. If you don't want to feed it fine then don't, but that doesn't make it wrong to do and many many many dogs get nothing but great benefits from it. You can try to dispute my dog's health to me all day, but I'm the one who lives with them, so I see for myself and your "refutations" about raw feeding mean nothing to me.


In actuality, KIBBLE is what is perceived by humans to be dog food, if you were to put both down, most dogs would choose the meat, at least once they realized they could eat it.

One could also put down a half rotting dead Possum next to their evil commercial dog food, and the chances are they would dive into the Possum without hesitation. In fact they would probably even forsake the raw chicken for something smelly. After all wolves scavenge for carion, the argument goes that centuries of wolves makes it ok for our dogs. I'm not sure if carion would be all that healthy for dogs, but at least by your logic it would be- after all it's the smell and taste that matters. Dogs will always eat what instinctly they know is best for them?


I don't care if someone feeds raw or not, but don't bash it just because you choose not to feed it.

Any time someone says that raw is superior to commercial dog food, then that is a bash towards those of us who choose commercial. And as I just pointed out in another post one is even labeled as crazy, and for feeding bad dog food. But of course commercial dog food owners deserve such bashing - don't they? It's just terrible what we feed our dogs.


Nothing makes you right more than anyone else.

Outside of knowledge- nothing.

Your dog(s) are having less health problems on raw since they got away from their food allergy. Mine have never had health problems on commercial dog food. So goes the testimonials.

It's one thing to post the myriads of "what did I feed my dog today". It's another to present misconceptions as fact.

[Vela]

My dogs never had a food allergy, my dog has crippling arthritis, which has nothing to do with a food allergy. She no longer needs medication or pain releivers for her arthritis and can run and jump and play, this is from changing her diet. So please don't proceed to tell me my dogs are doing better because they had a food allergy, because they didn't. I certainly never told you not to feed kibble and for ME raw is best. I don't give a rats behind what you feed your dogs, but it doesn't mean it's the best thing for them and it doesn't mean it's the worst thing for them, and I never said anything about it. You bash raw because you don't agree with it, well your way doesn't make you right just because you beleive it to be true. MY dogs do better on raw, and has nothing to do with a food allergy whatsoever. I never told you to feed your dogs raw, ever, or even that you should. I have ALWAYS said people should feed what they feel is best and what they can afford as long as they feel good about it, I personally beleive raw is better, but I'm not trying to make you feed it to your dogs, feed whatever you want, but stop bashing raw just because you don't do it or like it. Yes I do beleive raw is better, but I'm as entitled to think that if I like. That is not a bash to you because you don't feed it, but take it how you want. That's your chip on your own shoulder, not mine. I am not trying to make up your mind for you, but there is no need for you to put down those who do feed it and prefer it as better food for their dogs. Just because your dogs get excited about eating kibble doesn't mean they WOULDNT get just as excited about eating raw, they just don't know that it eixsts as food because it's not provided. Wheter a dog chows down their food or not is no indication of it being healthy or not for them. Most dogs eats whatever they are given, raw or kibble, and most get equally exicted about it, so if you are basing your dog's happiness at being fed on whether or not it's the best food, that's rather unrealistic. You seem to have this huge ego thing about your "knowledge" but OMG you don't know everything! Surprise!

[zoey]

I don't think people who talk about raw food are taking over posts as was eluded too, earlier in this thread.
It's just that there is so much to raw feeding.
A kibble diet is simple. Poor 2 cups of kibble in a bowl. The dog eats it.
But with raw it's completely different. There's lots and lots of info. to learn. How to buy it. how to cut it up. Portions. Proportions. Sources, vitamins and mineral content, etc. We just want to do it right and as healthily as possible. We are here to educate and inform each other what we've learned and what is working for our dogs.
We can do that w/out begrudging kibble feeders. Honestly there is no time for that. What we should all begrudge are the folks that starve their dogs.

[cali]

My dogs never had a food allergy, my dog has crippling arthritis, which has nothing to do with a food allergy. She no longer needs medication or pain releivers for her arthritis and can run and jump and play, this is from changing her diet yup same deal with Shadow, the vet called in premature aging, at 4 years old she had arthritus so bad she was unable to stand, she looked like a 13 year old dog rather then a 4 year old, all the vets said she would not live to see 5 and because she was already suffering so much we should put her down. we switched to raw because of Happy who had an allergy to grain(note the past tense, since the switch her grain allergy is gone, grains are no problem to her now) the switch took longer to benifit Shadow as she had been on kibble for 4 years and she was in such horrable shape, but after several months things started to clear up, her teeth got better, her arthritus vannished, and her intenstnial problems caused by her spay vannished never to return. she was on raw for 4 years, when we had to rehome her, by then all her problems were gone, she has been back on kibble for 2 years now and the effects of the raw have lasted, at 10 years old she continues to show no signs of the arthrtius that once crippled her. Raw is not a cure all however. when researched and fed properly it can be the best thing you can feed, but it not researched and fed right it can cause more harm then good .

dragondawg most of us raw feeders have fed both raw and several kinds of kibbles, you have fed only kibble and bash something you have never tried. when raw feeders complain about problems from kibble its from EXPERIENCE. you are bashing raw based on your own theorys.

[bckrazy]

I think you missed my point completely, Dragondawg. We've disagreed before... not because of what you feed your dogs - they sound very healthy, and that is AWESOME - but with the "tone" that you use in your posts. Talk about belittling.

My quote about grocery store kibble had nothing to do with kibble, and everything to do with educated dog owners. The fact is, I've seen you reply to many threads about people who feed lower quality brands who are unhappy with it and feel their dogs could do better, and your replies many times have simply been advocating the grocery store brand and telling them to stick to it. Yes, we are doing this for the love/health of our dogs, and they should eat what works for them. But, to discourage people from looking beyond the mega-massive "grocery store" kibbles, to me is what's crazy. People should know what is out there & make an educated choice on what is going into their dogs, beyond Iams and Beneful and the convincing commercials, as the vast majority of dog owners DON'T! If kibble works for your dog and you are totally satisfied, that's great. But I know that I, as a young person who has learned a lot since getting Gonzo when I was 13 & fed him Nutro and similar brands, did not even know [i]how healthy he could be with a better diet. We should all strive to improve our lives and the lives of our pets as much as we can, don't we agree on that? Why does it threaten you when people want to improve the diet & therefore the health of their dog?

Ucka. What Vela said, I'm getting too involved in this, when I know absolutely nothing I say will change anything.

[KYS]

GreyhoundGirl wrote: Nutro is good? Is it better than Purina 1? I have seen it in Wal-Mart, Which is handy. I would have to go out of the way for Canidae>>>>>>>>>>>>

My experience with these 3 foods:

PURINA ONE:
Purina one I read is one of the good dog foods carried in the Grocery
store. My X husband has been feeding this to his dog for several years
and his dog does very well on it.

Nutro:
I fed Nutro Natural Lamb and Rice to Sheba for 5 years.
Her skin and coat were beautiful with this food. I would have
no qualms feeding this kibble.

Canidae: I have used this food for almost 7 years now for Sheba and
Rocky.
Rocky has a bad stomach and he has done very well on this food
compared to others. Both dogs have never got tired of the taste and this is a good human grade food at a reasonable price.
* I also add a little human food such as meat, poultry, yogurt, and cottage cheese to their kibble.

My opinion, if your dog is healthy and happy stick with the food you are using.
(Some grocery dog foods are very low in quality and I personally would
stay away from these foods)
Check out the first few ingredients of the food, this will give you
an idea how to compare the different foods.)

[wolfsoul]

I think you missed my point completely, Dragondawg. We've disagreed before... not because of what you feed your dogs - they sound very healthy, and that is AWESOME - but with the "tone" that you use in your posts. Talk about belittling.

I completely agree. This quote says it all -- "Outside of knowledge - nothing." Honestly I'm scared to post in the dog health section because of the amount of times I've felt like my advice has been belittled, and now I have to worry about it in dog general. I'm tired of the arrogance.

The only food I'm against are low-quality kibbles. If you want to feed a high quality kibble, go ahead. If that's what works for you, great. I'm ecstatic to see so many people on PT interested interested in higher quality kibbles and raw. But I'm against the whole idea of lower quality dog foods -- I think it's wrong. I think that even if the dog appears to be doing well on it, things are going on insid ethat you can't see. My GSD died of cancer on a low quality dog food. Her sisters are still alive at 12 years of age with nothing but some arthritis. Everyone thought she was healthy --- sure, she had a doggy smell, she was overweight and had dandruff, and she chewed her one leg to pieces. But nobody made the tie to diet. Because that is what is normal these days. Dogs smell, dogs are greasy, dogs chew themselves, and when a dog is altered it gets fat. It's never the food, oh no.
Just because I feed raw and recommend raw does NOT mean that I'm against all kibbles and will belittle someone for feeding kibble. Even if they feed a low quality kibble I will not make any snide remarks or pound them with a bunch of textbook studies. If they are looking for something better, I will tell them what I believe is wrong with the food they are feeding, and what they should avoid in the future. As soon as someone sees me telling someone that raw is good and kibble is bad and all kibble owners should basically rot, call me on it. I tried dozens of kibbles, none of them worked for MY dog, and I don't want to feed kibble, that is ME, do what works for you. Raw is not for everyone. I've seen needless deaths and illnesses on raw because the owner didn't research properly --- I've also seen it on kibble.

[GreyhoundGirl]

GreyhoundGirl wrote: Nutro is good? Is it better than Purina 1? I have seen it in Wal-Mart, Which is handy. I would have to go out of the way for Canidae>>>>>>>>>>>>

My experience with these 3 foods:

PURINA ONE:
Purina one I read is one of the good dog foods carried in the Grocery
store. My X husband has been feeding this to his dog for several years
and his dog does very well on it.

Nutro:
I fed Nutro Natural Lamb and Rice to Sheba for 5 years.
Her skin and coat were beautiful with this food. I would have
no qualms feeding this kibble.

Canidae: I have used this food for almost 7 years now for Sheba and
Rocky.
Rocky has a bad stomach and he has done very well on this food
compared to others. Both dogs have never got tired of the taste and this is a good human grade food at a reasonable price.
* I also add a little human food such as meat, poultry, yogurt, and cottage cheese to their kibble.

My opinion, if your dog is healthy and happy stick with the food you are using.
(Some grocery dog foods are very low in quality and I personally would
stay away from these foods)
Check out the first few ingredients of the food, this will give you
an idea how to compare the different foods.)

Thanks, do you have any experience with Iams?

I am quite sure I don't have the time to learn How to buy it. how to cut it up. Portions. Proportions. Sources, vitamins and mineral content, etc. I wouldn't have time to do that regularly :o . ( the 2 cups of kibble sounds much easier. )

I am quite sure I have come to what I think would be a wise move for my lifestyle right now. I am thinking Nutro with one egg a week ( Sun. evenings ;) ). Would that be good? Or does Nutro not need the egg? ( And I should feed the egg with the shell, right? )

Thanks again :)

[KYS]

GreyhoundGirl,
I never fed Iams kibble so I can not comment on their food.
All I can suggest is read the first few main ingredients and compare.

(I cook plain eggs for myself once or twice a week (with-out fat)
and share a little with each dogs I give them mostly the cooked whites
from my dish, no egg shells. : )

I would think a good grade kibble alone is fine, but as mentioned, I like to
add human food to their dinner.
I also add a little meat juice or warm water to their kibble.

This is just what I do for my dogs. :)

[sammy101]

I am quite sure I have come to what I think would be a wise move for my lifestyle right now. I am thinking Nutro with one egg a week ( Sun. evenings ;) ). Would that be good? Or does Nutro not need the egg? ( And I should feed the egg with the shell, right? )

Thanks again :)

Kodie and Lucy get one raw egg each a week. Kodie gets the shell because he likes it, Lucy doesnt like the shell.Nutro is a great choice in food,Kodie had bad food allergies and they cleared up so fast when we switched to Nutro Natural choice.

[Suki Wingy]

For one, Iams is not a high quality dog food. Have you seen the crap in it?
Have you seen the crap that results from eating it? One of my main reasons to switch Niño's food.

[JenBKR]

Ever since I started feeding Nutro to my pets, their health, skin, and coats have improved a great deal. I am so glad I found PT, because I never knew how to read pet food labels, I just figured that a more expensive food would be better. :o I was feeding Bil-Jac - which is more expensive and not as good in quality compared to Nutro.

[GreyhoundGirl]

Ever since I started feeding Nutro to my pets, their health, skin, and coats have improved a great deal. I am so glad I found PT, because I never knew how to read pet food labels, I just figured that a more expensive food would be better. :o I was feeding Bil-Jac - which is more expensive and not as good in quality compared to Nutro.

That's what my mom thinks. Iams is the most $$$ one in the grocery store.

Jen usually does get some people food with her meal ( things like blood from steak ), but I think one raw egg a week would be good with her Nutro.

My mom says I just have to finish the bag of Iams and the bag of purina ONE ( both about half gone ) than I can choose whatever food I want ( as long as it doesn't cost an arm-and-a-leg :p )

[GreyhoundGirl]

Have you seen the crap that results from eating it? One of my main reasons to switch Niño's food.

I wouldn't know what good resuts would look like. :o Jen has only ever been fed grocery store brands. :o I'm hoping on seeing some improvement once we make the Nutro switch.

[JenBKR]

I wouldn't know what good resuts would look like. :o Jen has only ever been fed grocery store brands. :o I'm hoping on seeing some improvement once we make the Nutro switch.

Oh you will, you'll see a big difference!

[KYS]

GreyhoundGirl:My mom says I just have to finish the bag of Iams and the bag of purina ONE than I can choose whatever food I want.>>>>>>>>

Just remember when you make the switch do it gradually
by mixing some of the old food with the new food
so your dogs digestive system will get use to the change.

[GreyhoundGirl]

GreyhoundGirl:My mom says I just have to finish the bag of Iams and the bag of purina ONE than I can choose whatever food I want.>>>>>>>>

Just remember when you make the switch do it gradually
by mixing some of the old food with the new food
so your dogs digestive system will get use to the change.

Yup, have about half a bag of mix-breed food.And Jen has her first bag of lamb-and-rice nutro. :D :D :D I'm so Happie !

She is getting her first raw egg & shell on wedsday.

[micki76]

There is not a bowl dog food out there that will reach the nutritional value of a bowl of raw food - wether your dog enjoys it or not.
Just as there's no processed human food that's better than fresh veggies, meat, etc. Fresh food is always better than any processed food IMO. And no, I don't feed raw; I just don't have the time at this point in my life. My dogs and myself eat a lot of processed food and we do fine. Would we all be healthier if we only ate fresh food? Well, olf course.

[shais_mom]

W:eek:W

I've switched Keegan to raw for about 10 days now. I am surprised at the difference in her stool. Some of the reasons I switched is that I read that dogs that are overweight might lose weight on raw, dogs that are underweight might gain weight on raw, and pain from arthritis might be relieved.
These are not direct quotes. And I added the words "might be" so that someone won't come and bite me in the butt. Keegan has hip dysplasia and arthritis so I was willing to try anything to help relieve her pain. It isn't a cure-all and I understand that but if it MIGHT help her - I felt obligated to try it.

[GreyhoundGirl]

I'm not ready for raw, yet. I will probably feed raw to my dog ( S ) when I move out. I keep forgeting to give her an egg. :o She still hasn't gotten one yet. :o Only got a quarter-bag of mix food now....