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aly
03-22-2001, 01:23 AM
I'll try not to make this post too long but there's a lot to try to explain.

When I got Harley, I was really careful introducing him to my cat. They had a little bit of a rocky start but got along. After a week or so, Harley started chasing the cat (Shiloh). I figured this would happen since he had adjusted and was feeling more confident. I didn't see it as a problem though because Shiloh is young and playful and liked being chased. She'd smack him whenever she had enough and he'd back off. She even initiated the chases a lot of the time. Then a week and a half ago, I brought home my new dog, Reece. Reece and Harley get along beautifully and so do Reece and Shiloh. But all of a sudden, I'm having problems with Harley and Shiloh. He's going after her a lot more aggressively. I try to call him off and he won't let up. She hisses and smacks him and he just keeps going at her. Its awful. I don't trust him around her anymore and I've had to keep them constantly seperated. Every time I try to put them together, the same thing happens. I've had to crate him at night so Shiloh can comfortably sleep with me and have access to her liter and food too. Harley loves to sleep in his crate anyway. Whenever she walks by his crate, he'll whine or bark and scratch the door like crazy. It's getting worse and worse while I'm hoping and praying it will get better. I know the addition of a new dog can be stressful to the pets in the household but Harley doesn't show any other signs of stress or discomfort about Reece. I've basically been crying for 5 days straight now because I'm afraid of what is going to happen. To me, giving up one of my animals is not an option. At the same time I feel cruel to keep Harley in this situation that is frusterating him and stressing him. Since it has been only a week and a half, I am going to give it more time and see what happens. Its not very encouraging when I have to keep them seperated though. That means that there's constantly one animal being left out and it breaks my heart into pieces.

If anyone has ANY advice, I'd love to hear it. I'm desperate and heart broken. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif

carrie
03-22-2001, 01:52 AM
For safety I think that seperating the animals is the only thing you can do when you are not able to supervise.

When all the animals are together keep Harley on his lead. As the cat enters the room praise Harley for staying in a down position but check him if he attempts to chase the cat. This will take some time to yeild results as Harley is having a ball chasing. He must understand that you will not tolerate it.
What started as a play has been encouraged by the cat running away. The cat had the upper hand as long as it could end the game by turning. As Harley is now feeling even more confident of his authority with the introduction of another animal lower in the pack he is pushing his dominance with the cat as well. You must assert your dominance by not allowing it and making it clear to Harley what is accepted behaviour and what will not be tolerated.

aly
03-22-2001, 12:24 PM
Thanks carrie.. I have tried a little of that but stopped short because Harley was really refusing to stay calm. I think I will try again and be persistent and firm with him. I am constantly setting his boundaries because he's the most dominant little thing I've ever seen. Its just this cat problem has got me stressed because I want everyone to be happy.

Both the dogs are at doggy day care today. I'm hoping running around wild for 12 hours with other dogs will help Harley out a little and he'll be calmer and pooped when he gets home. I hope little Reece is doing okay. I think I'm the one experiencing the seperation axiety now though http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

I'll try your suggestion carrie and let you know how it works. I'm bound and determined to make them get along again.

Angels3
03-22-2001, 04:55 PM
Just to add to Carrie's excellent advice.
Aly, we had a similar problem with a young male tibbie who came to live with our neighbours. He came from a privileged background but his owners had to find a new home for him because of his behaviour problems which were just like Harley's. We found excellent advice in some articles about dominance & pets living together. We all consistently put these ideas into practice, & the tibbie is much, much better. At base, we found teaching him basic obedience 'Sit' to earn anything...like a pat or a treat...important. We also found that when he got 'bossy', it helped greatly to give him the 'down' command...because this means submission. He wouldn't willingly go 'down' , so we would say 'Sit' & then quickly pull his front legs forward with one hand & gently but firmly push his back down with the other hand.
But all the ideas in the articles were great.
Go to http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/library.htm
Scroll down to (Potential) Behavior Problems
Under that click on Dominance/Leadership and More Than One Pet.
We found that working at these ideas consistently, over time, made a huge difference to the little dog.
All the best...& please keep us up-to-date.

[This message has been edited by Angels3 (edited March 22, 2001).]

aly
03-22-2001, 09:36 PM
Hi Angels3, I will look at that website. I have been working on a lot of the dominance things with him (such as making him work for everything, making him go through the door last, etc). The problem is even though he sees me as "top dog", he sees the cat at the bottom of the pile. Maybe the link you posted will have some things I haven't tried yet.

Well their doggy play day is over. When I went to pick them up, Reece tore down the hall and jumped in my arms. I think he was begging me to never EVER take him back again. He likes playing with other dogs but only if I'm there with him. What a mama's boy http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif Harley asked me why I came an hour early. He still wanted to go fight with the St. Bernard that was 4 times his size. He was running circles around my legs as I was writing the check. Then when I tried to walk, I banged my head on the wall and almost fell down http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/eek.gif Reece was still in my arms and I was starting to feel the effects of single motherhood, hehe. I was hoping Harley would have worn his energy off today but I didnt think he had after all his antics before we had even reached the car. As soon as we got home though, BAM, two dogs knocked out in the middle of the living room floor. I had to poke Reece with my foot to wake him because he hadn't heard me calling him. Harley ate dinner laying down, hehee. Later I'm going to put him on a leash and try some exercises with the cat.

aly
03-22-2001, 11:09 PM
Here's pictures of the troublemaker, Harley. I'll post a pic of Reece when I get the film developed and scanned.


http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604430&a=12232062&p=44522289&Sequence=0

He wants to let everyone know, it wasn't his choice to wear a purple collar but its the one his mom likes best http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif His other ones are too manly!

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604430&a=12232062&p=44522283&Sequence=0


[This message has been edited by aly (edited March 25, 2001).]

Angels3
03-23-2001, 05:49 AM
Aly, that Harley looks like an absolute saint in the photograph. He's incredibly cute. I'm really looking forward to seeing Reece. How are they all getting along?

tatsxxx11
03-23-2001, 03:58 PM
Harley is just beautiful! Eagerly awaiting Reece's photographic debut! I recently began introduction of an 8 month old kitten into my home consisting of two LARGE dogs, a guinea pig and one senior kitty who suffers from asthma. I was so fearful of the senior cat's reaction and didn't want to unduly stress him. I knew my lab would be OK with it. But my other dog is a real squirrel chaser, and boy, does the new kitten Oliver look like a squirrel. I did what Carrie suggested. Integration was slow and very supervised. When I did allow Oliver to roam freely within a confined area with the dogs, I kept my Cody on a lead, and corrected and praised her for each time she ignored the kitten. Now Cody goes out of her way to avoid the kitten and walks around him or just ignores him. It is a very stressful time. I have to agree with Carrie that you shouldn't leave them together unsupervised at this point. Whenever I leave the room, or house, Oliver is put in another room with the door closed, and it's been a few weeks now. In time, I hope that all your kids will be happy and safe together. I can't imagine giving any one of them up either! Sounds like doggie play group is a good thing! Anything that would make my guys konk out like that at night is for me! Seriously, it sounds like a great way to allow Harlely to vent and work off some of that energy! Sorry about the head banger! ***OUCH*** Things have to get better from here! LOL


[This message has been edited by tatsxxx11 (edited March 23, 2001).]

ownerof3dogs
03-23-2001, 09:04 PM
He is so cute. you can tell he is such a character

RachelJ
03-25-2001, 04:41 PM
I loved your story of how you acquired Harley and Reece. It really warmed my heart and hearing about these situations is the VERY BEST THING about Pet Talk. I think with a wired haired fox terrier you will always have to be on your toes.

There was an animal behaviorist on TV the other day and a question such as yours came up. His suggestion was to have each dog spend some individual time with the cat without the other dog there. He really didn't explain how this would help. Maybe cementing the individual relationships or making supervision a little easier. It does sound like a reasonable tactic.

aly
03-25-2001, 05:14 PM
Thanks Rachel, I will try your suggestion. Since I've gotten Reece, I've divided his time like this: 50% of the day with just me, 25% of him being alone, and 25% of him with Harley supervised. This was recommended by the shelter to do for at least 2 weeks. I asked about time with the cat but they didn't have a definate answer so I've been judging it for myself. There's absolutely no problem between him and Shiloh anyway. I can even take his paws and bat them around Shiloh's face and she'll just yawn. When she sees Harley now though, she gets on edge. I think the main thing is for Harley to have a lot of supervised time with Shiloh and not have Reece there so he can learn how to act. I can correct him pretty easily if he gets too rowdy with Reece. The cat is a whole different story though. Whenever he sees her now, he acts like he's been possessed by a demon. I've tried several times in the past few days bringing him near her while on a leash. Every time, he makes weird barking noises and pulls on the leash really hard. Every time he lunges, I correct with a "NO!" but he ignores me. I tried waving treats in front of his face to distract him from the cat but that didn't work. I'm just going to keep trying different things.

I noticed the links of Harley's pics were broken so I fixed them. I can't wait for you guys to see Reece. He looks like a cute cartoon dog http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif I have Reece signed up for a temperment test to see if we can do therapy work at hosipitals and retirement homes. I had wanted to do this with Harley but he's not exactly cut out for that job, hehe.

Genia
03-25-2001, 06:27 PM
Harley's a cutie. Bandit says to tell Harley that he has to wear a dreadful purple collar too! He prefers the black one, although the red one goes nicely with his coloring http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif

RachelJ
03-26-2001, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by aly:

I noticed the links of Harley's pics were broken so I fixed them.

The broken links didn't stop me. I went to PhotoPoint and found Harley there. He is the cutest little guy but I can see the mischief in his eye.

Sounds as if you are really working with him the right way but that this is going to be a real challenge.

Daisy's Mom
03-26-2001, 04:48 PM
Hey I am not very good with questions like this, but I have an idea. When Harley pulls on the leash to get at Shiloh, you could try using the penny bottle. That thing is a life saver! Fill a plastic soda bottle with a few pennies and when the dog misbehaves, slap it down on the floor or on your hand really hard. The noise is awful and whatever the dog is doing, it will stop! You could try that if you wanted http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif Hope I helped!

aly
03-26-2001, 05:32 PM
Daisy's Mom: I'll try the pennis in a milk jug. I'm willing to try anything. I jsut want them to all be happy. I'm getting really stressed about this again. I had been feeling better and thought for sure it would work out. But now every day its getting worse and worse.

When I got home today, I went to my room to put Harley on a leash so I could take him out. As we were walking to the door, he saw Shiloh and did a whole lot of lunging and growling. I got him outside and when we came back he, he became very intent on finding the cat. I snatched her up and put her in my room when he wasn't looking. Meanwhile, he was sniffing and running all over trying to find her. He finally sniffed under my door then just layed there waiting for her to come out. Shiloh is scared half to death of him now. I've just been sitting here crying because I try so hard to make sure they are all taken care of and happy but I feel like I'm failing. I'm constantly having to keep them seperated with doors shut dividing the house up. I wish I could let them all just run around but I fear for the safety of my cat. So now I feel like I'm restricting Harley from being a dog. He used to be so good with the cat. I just feel like an awful pet owner right now.

jackiesdaisy1935
03-26-2001, 05:45 PM
Harley is so cute, he looks full of mischief.
I can't wait to see the photos of Reece.
You have a wonderful family there. I'm sure it will all work out!

Angels3
03-26-2001, 07:04 PM
Aly, I know how you must feel...that you've tried so hard but the dog-cat hostility continues. I'd feel tearful, too, because I'd want so much for my pets to live in peace (well, most of the time).
I know it may be difficult but can you ACT as if you are firmly in charge no matter what happens, so it's clear to Harley that you are in charge...not him.
Sorry for sending you to an article again but this one has a couple of replies to someone who had exactly the same problem as you...including the strategies not working immediately. To control the situation of 'training' 2 animals at once...the dog & the cat...the animal behaviourist says that 2 people are needed for the training.
So can you get a friend to help you? Maybe your vet could suggest a person who'd be willing to carry out the training with you & your pets. For this info, go to: http://www.canismajor.com/dog/dogscats.html
Hope it helps.

[This message has been edited by Angels3 (edited March 26, 2001).]

ownerof3dogs
03-26-2001, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by aly:
Daisy's Mom: I'll try the pennis in a milk jug.

That has got the be the funniest spelling mistake on record. The second I saw it I bursted out laughing http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif I got a very funny picture in my head

aly
03-26-2001, 11:02 PM
hahaha, oh my gosh, now I'm a lunatic crying and laughing at the same time. HAHA! I'm not going to let Harley see my typo or he'll start crossing his legs when I'm around. Thanks for making me laugh. I hadn't even noticed that crazy typo. I am also getting funny mental images.

Angels3: My sister lives near me so I'll have her come over frequently for awhile so we can work on the training. Thanks for the advice.

I also wanted to tell everyone thanks. I've really enjoyed reading about everyone's dogs and really think these boards are full of nice, caring people. Thanks again http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

aly
03-27-2001, 02:04 AM
ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I pressed Clear Fields instead of Submit. AHH!!!! I'll try to remember what all I just wrote, grrrrrr...

I feel a bit better after reading websites with people going through the same situation as me. It helps me realize that I need to keep on working with Harley and it will get better even though it looks like it won't.

Reece has been feeling more confident every day. I have been working so hard on his seperation anixety and its finally showing. I can actually leave now without him having a fit and being a newvous wreck for hours on end. He seems to think he is royalty now and the only place suitable for sleeping is on my pillow. This usually leaves my head on Shiloh, a stuffed animal or dog toy. (Dog toys always wind up in my bed so I gave up trying to keep them out). Reece has also taken up prancing instead of walking like us common folk. He even tried to refuse to walk down the stairs today but I told him if I carried him down, he'd have to carry me back up. I guess he didn't want to make that deal.

Have you guys ever heard of dogs not only peeing but also pooping to mark territory? I'm not sure but I think Harley does this. He only poops where he can smell another dog. He even lifts a leg! Its not the exact same position as peeing though. He manuevers around so his butt is facing the tree or whatever he's going to the bathroom on. Its hard to explain the position. Even the few times he had accidents in the house, he pooped on the wall and on the windowsill. I just thought this was funny.

AdoreMyDogs
03-27-2001, 07:11 AM
Aly,

I don't have any words of advise unfortunately but I just wanted to add a comment about the pooping in funny places thing that you said. It's so funny that Harley pooped on the window sill, although I bet you didn't think it was that funny since you had to clean it up http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif That brought back memories of my old yellow lab, Beener, who went to the bridge over a year ago. Beener also used to back up into things to poop, just like a ferret does. It was so strange, and funny. He'd back up into trees, along fences, ect. One day I took him and my dog Graham to the dog park and Beener actually began to back up onto a park bench! He took a dump on that park bench....a place where people like to sit down and relax http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif It surprised me and sent me laughing hysterically http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif I pushed the pile off the bench, and into a poop bag when I was through laughing http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif Of all of the places to poop in that big dog park, for some reason Beener thought it'd be funny to poop on the park bench.

I will never again look at a park bench and expect it to be clean again http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

Pam
03-27-2001, 08:29 PM
Leslie I will never look at a park bench in quite the same way any more!!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif

Genia
03-27-2001, 09:31 PM
Poop on a park bench? On a window sill? These are definitely new ones! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif Aly, I think it is so wonderful that you are working so hard with your baby no matter what he does.

"Each year up to 6 million dogs are euthanized, not because they are sick or old but because do they do bad things. If you have a dog that misbehaves, one reason may be because you treat him too much like a member of the family. That is, he should not have equal rights. All humans in the house should reign over a dog. When it comes to dogs, people should have the power. If your dog misbehaves, do not look at, talk to, feed or play with him. Startle him with a loud noise so he stops what he's doing. Then redirect his behavior. Be sure to praise him often when he does the right thing. He'll learn that a good dog is a happier dog. "

(This is from Yahoo dog tips.) You are proof that with a lot of work and a lot of love a solution can be found with any pet.

aly
03-28-2001, 12:37 AM
Genia - Thanks for the support http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif It really helps me because I'm not getting a lot of support elsewhere. My friends and family think I have taken on too much and its more than I can handle. My feeling is that I have three rescued pets who I love to death and I will fight for them with all I have. They do wear me out, but it is so worth it. They bring so much unconditional love and joy in my life. I don't know what I'd do without them. I'll be the first to admit Harley is a big brat, but I love him for it. Everytime I start to feel like no one is on my side, I just have to come to this board and see all the wonderful replies. I'm glad to be able to talk to other people who share my same views that our dogs mean the world to us. I know someday I will be able to let all 3 of my babies play together without worry that Harley will rip Shiloh's head off. I think I'm going to get him another play day appointment to work off more of his energy.

aly
03-28-2001, 12:41 AM
AdoreMyDogs - glad to know I'm not the only one who's had a weird pooper, hehe. It is a strange site to come home to doggy mess on the window sill or dripping down the wall (ew!).

One time I had Harley on a tennis court and he backed up against the fence and pooped through the holes.. hehe at least I didn't have to clean it off the court.

aly
04-09-2001, 06:03 PM
I really wish I was posting this with better news but the situation with Harley has gotten worse. I still have been keeping Harley and Shiloh seperated, even when I'm at home. He can't be around her AT ALL or he'll go nuts. I work with them while he's on a leash near her but he can't concentrate on anything else except getting to her. Even if I'm taking him out for a walk, which he loves, he'll frantically search for her while we walk to the front door, not even caring about the walk. I still thought this could be fixable though and I didn't want to give up.

I've had a dog behaviorist and 2 trainers come work with me on this also. They all said I was doing the right techniques but after working with Harley for short times, each one told me it would be best to find either Shiloh or Harley a new home. I told them that there was no chance of that happening, and that I'd figure out a way so they could get along.

Then today I was away for a few hours at the Humane Society. My sister and her roommate were over watching my animals. I got a frantic call on my cell phone from my sister that Harley had hurt Shiloh. I ran home and she told me that Harley slipped out the door of the room he was in and ran directly for Shiloh. She was laying on her back and he pounced on her, landing on her stomach. She jumped up and ran to the kitchen table (a place she never goes but she was frantic). He pulled her off by her tail and had his jaws around her body. My sister had to pry his mouth open and get the cat. My sister, her roommate, and I were all crying and frantic so a neighbor drove us to the vet. Shiloh is fine, just very shook up.

This incident has made me think a lot. I sit here and claim to care only about the well being of my animals, yet I keep them in this stressful situation. I really want Harley to be able to run around freely and not be restricted to certain areas of the house constantly. I want Shiloh to be able to eat and drink without having to keep her eyes looking up to check for dogs. I also want her to run and play without having the fear of being attacked. I think I'm doing mental damage to them keeping them like this. Harley has had so much trauma in his life that I really want to do what's best for him. I also want to do what's best for Shiloh. I am torn on what is best for them at this point. I know what's best for Shiloh but its Harley that is a difficult situation. When I really think about it from his point of view, it seems the only responsible thing I could do is find him a better home where he can be cared for and loved. I love him to death and have never given up a pet for any reason so this is the hardest thing I've ever had to think about. But the alternative is both Harley being frusterated and stressed and Shiloh being fearful, stressed, and perhaps hurt badly.

Someone please tell me what you think. I know I said I was going to make it work, but the situation has been getting worse instead of better. I'm not giving up on him, I'm just trying to think what's best for him. Am I right or wrong or what should I do? http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif

RachelJ
04-09-2001, 06:53 PM
My dear, dear Aly, I think you are right. This situation has weighed on my mind because I know how hard you have been trying to find the solution. I wish I could take the little goofball myself, I have learned to love him through you, but husband has never shown any signs of allowing me any more animals. You have done everything humanly possible, but Harley's past and his genes have made him obsessed with the cat. Somehow he has tranferred any threat to what he feel is his happy home to poor, poor Shiloh, who doesn't deserve any of it. Maybe he is jealous of the fact that Shiloh sleeps with you. Who knows. I for one would feel you were doing the best for each of your animals by rehoming Harley. You yourself have specified the reasons and I think you are right on target. I know how much you will grieve this. The expression is hackneyed but it says it all....I feel your pain.

Karen
04-09-2001, 07:31 PM
Please, please aly, read the story of Mancha, http://PetoftheDay.com/archive/1999/January/31.html . It is long, and tragic (but ends happily) and in it is a dog Nakoo, who reminds me of Harley, in different circumstances.

aly
04-09-2001, 09:55 PM
Rachel, thanks for all your advice and your email. The support I've received on these boards has really helped me out. I've been moping around here all night crying because I couldn't make it work out between Harley and Shiloh. I hope I can find a very loving person to take Harley in. He deserves all the love in the world. I wish I could be the one giving it to him.

Karen, I read about Nakoo and Mancha. What a heart breaking but inspiring story. The woman who wrote that must be such a wonderful, caring person. I'd die if Shiloh was in as bad shape as Mancha was.

I guess sometimes you can't predict things. Harley seemed perfectly fine with the cat for awhile. I guess his "honeymoon" period after I adopted him lasted longer than most dogs. There was a time when Harley, Shiloh and I could all sleep in the same bed. I don't know how I'm going to find someone who is willing to do the extra bit of training for Harley since he's so dominant. He's not a bad dog at all, he just needs boundaries set. He plays so wonderfully with Reece, I think he'd make a really good second dog. I guess I will start asking around the humane society and try to spread the word about Harley. I'm going to be picky where he goes though because I don't want him to end up homeless or at a shelter ever again.

Thanks again everyone. Your support really has helped me. Its hard to be strong during such a heart breaking time.

Logan
04-09-2001, 10:26 PM
I am thinking of you, Aly. I know you have a heart of gold. It sounds like you have done everything correctly. Just sometimes, they can't get along. I suffer daily with two cats that can't seem to get along, but there has been no blood, and for the first time, I actually left all four animals sleeping in the same room last night when I went to bed. This was a first! Butter was asleep in a chair, and he saw Mimi lie down on the floor about 5 feet away from him. Both dogs were there too. I know I have a lot to be grateful for.
I think you should be proud and satisfied that you have done everything possible to make it work.
Please keep us posted on your progress in placing Harley.
Logan

Logan
04-09-2001, 10:54 PM
Aly,
I chatted with a Texas friend after my last message, and gave her the link to this page so she could read your story. Her fear is that terriers are bred to chase smaller animals, and that is why you are having the problems. I've never really had terriers before. But her suggestion was that you contact the ASPCA in your area. She is involved in rescue in the Dallas area, but works with Golden Retrievers exclusively. I don't know where you are in Texas, so I couldn't be very specific with her.

If you need more advice, I'm sure she would be glad to help. Just e-mail me and I'll put you in touch with her if that would help.

Good Luck.
Logan

aly
04-09-2001, 11:08 PM
Logan - I work at the SPCA in my area and have been getting advice from them. I don't want to take Harley there though. Even though its a nice place, the shelter environment is so stressful for dogs. I'm going to try to find someone by talking to the people who come in looking for dogs. I think this might be the best way. I have also just posted on some Texas Rescue mailing lists in case anyone reading them is looking for a dog.

I agree his chasing cats is probably just instinct because he gets along with Reece so well. I'm in the Austin area by the way. Thanks for the help. Let me know if your friend in Dallas comes across anyone wanting a dog like Harley. I'm willing to drive him and also work with the people on dominance issues and telling them all the training that works best for him.

Thanks.

AdoreMyDogs
04-10-2001, 06:49 AM
Aly,

I am so sorry. I am simply heartbroken for you. I think you are doing the right thing, but how difficult it is. I had to rehome a dalmation that I had for 6 years many, many years ago because of serious problems and it's not easy that's for sure. My heart goes out to you. I don't know anyone from Texas but if I come up with any ideas I'll promptly send you email.

Again, I am so very sorry. I know how bad it hurts http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif Just hang in there and remember us PetTalk folks are here for you. Take care and keep us posted.

-Leslie

Angels3
04-10-2001, 07:08 AM
Aly, you did your best to make things work out. But the people are right who say that the terrier instinct to hunt smaller animals is too strong in this case.
It's not all that unusual for some dogs to be absolutely unable to share a home with a cat. On our OzDogRescue site, there is an icon placed against some of the dogs which means that the dog should go to a home where there are no cats.

Sudilar
04-10-2001, 09:31 AM
So sorry for you. It is hard for you to give him up, but you did EVERYTHING you possibly could to keep him. It comes down to the life of your cat. You must do what has to be done. I hope you find a good home for him. Good luck!

Stenograsaurus
04-10-2001, 10:55 AM
Oh, Aly, I am so sorry for you. You are absolutely right in your decision, as hard as it is to make. You are sacrificing to make sure your animals are happy and I think that makes you a great person. I had a cousin who had two dogs who would get a long for a while, then from out of nowhere the one would attack the other one. Then they'd get along for a while and he'd attack again. The attacks got worse. They were at a loss as to what to do and waited too long in making a decision. The one dog tore the other one up beyond repair and he had to be put down.
You did everything you could have possibly done to try to make these two get along. Sometimes things are just out of our control.
My heart goes out to you.

carrie
04-10-2001, 11:20 AM
Some animals, just like people, just don't get on. You did your best and it obviously isn't going to work. For the sake of the animals you are doing the right thing. Good luck with finding a good home.

jackiesdaisy1935
04-10-2001, 03:51 PM
Aly, I am so sorry you are in this situation.
I know how much you love Harley and want the best for him. I was in a similar situation, we were going to adopt a little Schnauzer from a girl who didn't want to keep her because she was pregnant and was afraid the dog would attack her child. They drove the little Schnauzer down from Los Angeles and we made the mistake of introducing them in our home and Perry (Schnauzer) without any warning attacked the little one. Well we kept trying to get them together and after him attacking her three or four times knew it was impossible. They did adopt her out to
their groomer who always loved her.
I was thinking maybe it would be better if Harley is very territorial to adopt him out to an older person who would give him all their attention, or a couple with no small children or a couple with no other dogs.
Good luck, I do believe you are doing the right thing for Harley and Shiloh.

http://schnauzerville.homestead.com/files/neutergrt.gif

Pam
04-10-2001, 07:45 PM
Aly, I am so sorry you have had to make this hard decision. I know how much you love Harley and I feel like I sort of know him too after seeing his picture and reading about him. It is plain to see that he is a great dog and will do just fine if placed with the right person. In your capacity at the shelter you will maybe have the opportunity to play a part in helping that to come to pass. We are all behind you and wishing you the best. Please let us know what happens.

wolflady
04-12-2001, 02:13 PM
Aly, so sorry to hear about Harley. In situations like this you have to do what's best for you and your current furbabies as well as for Harley. Like Jackiesdaisy said, sometimes, no matter how hard you try, some "kids" just won't get along. All of us here are behind you and hope you can find the very best home and situation for him. Good luck and let us know what happens!

wolflady
04-12-2001, 02:15 PM
ugh!! I did it again!! I get names confused every now and then after reading all the posts! I was referring to Carrie's statement...but I agree with what everyone here has said. *hugs*
Karen

aly
04-14-2001, 02:19 PM
I thought I would let everyone know the update on Harley.

Rachel gave me a wh fox terrier rescue contact and I emailed them a few days ago. They posted my email on the rescue list and that put me in contact with a wonderful woman who lives 2.5 hours away from me. The woman has a wh fox terrier of her own and has been involved in the rescue and placement of them for years. From everything she has told me, I am certain Harley will be well cared for. She wants him to stay with her for awhile so she can see his personality and place him accordingly. I am also writing up background info on Harley to give her. Its not confirmed yet, but I think next Friday will be the day I will take Harley to her http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif I know this is what's best for Harley though and he will still be able to live a happy life.

Thank you all for your support. You guys are all so wonderful. I'm going through so much grief right now and it helps me to come here and read supportive messages.

sammi
04-14-2001, 02:42 PM
I am happy that you might have found someone that can take Harley and find him a good home. I realize that you must be feeling all kinds of emotions at this time. But I think that you are making a wise choice because you love all 3 of your pets and want them to have a good life. If Harley gets adopeted out you should be able to check on how he is adjusting for awhile and give yourself some piece of mind. I hope all works out well and don't be too hard on yourself because you have done everything in your power to make this work. Who knows might be someone out their that needs Harley more than you do?

Logan
04-14-2001, 03:42 PM
Oh Aly. that is wonderful news. I certainly hope it will all work out beautifully for you and Harley. Rachel, and thanks to you for helping out.
Happy Holidays to you all, whatever you celebrate.
Logan

jackiesdaisy1935
04-14-2001, 04:17 PM
Aly, I'm so glad to hear the news. Harley will be starting on a new adventure to a new home, I'm sure he will never forget all the love and wonderful care you have given him.
I believe you have done the right thing for all and who knows, maybe you can keep in touch with the person who adopts him. We got Perry from a breeder in Los Angeles and I send photos of Perry every Christmas to her
and she loves it and knows that he is well cared for. Maybe it will work out that way for you too.

aly
04-14-2001, 04:34 PM
I really hope the people won't mind keeping in contact with me. I dont know what I'll do with myself if I can't have updates on him. I am trying to look at all the positive sides of this situation but I'm still so devastated.

I've been thinking and I remembered how Shiloh came into my life before Dessi died. I know she was sent from God to help me through the time of loss. A month ago, Reece suddenly came into my life. I wasn't looking for another dog but adopted him on pure feelings of fate and destiny. I just wonder if I was meant to rescue Harley from the shelter, if I was meant to find a really good home for Harley, and if Reece was meant to come into my life to help me deal with the pain of losing Harley. Realizing all this helps me feel better and feel like everything happens for a reason. I know right now is the hardest time and I will be doing much better when Harley is in his new home and I know he's doing good.

tatsxxx11
04-14-2001, 05:03 PM
Dear Aly. You are so brave. What a courageous, selfless, loving decision you have made. Thank you Rachel for helping to assist in finding Harley the perfect home. It must be so hard for you Aly; I can only imagine the saddness. But as you said in your last post, perhaps this was all for a very special reason. As parents, sometimes we are left to suffer the pain for the good of our "kids." You are in my thoughts constantly. I, like others, was so happy to the smiling faces of precious Reece and Harely, when you finally were able to post their pics. He will be in my heart always. The prospect of his new adventure sounds very encouraging. I hope for the best. Hugs to sweet Harley, and to you. Love to you, Sandra

Pam
04-14-2001, 05:08 PM
Aly...Sammi said something that sort of clicked with me. There might be someone out there that needs Harley more than you do. It does seem that all of your pets so far have helped to fill a void. I think little Reece has a special mission now and that is to help you through this. You continue to be in my thoughts because this had to be such an awful decision to make. It sure would be nice if you could sort of keep in touch with his new "people." http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif Keep us posted!

Karen
04-14-2001, 06:04 PM
Hey, if the people who end up getting Harley for a forever home have a computer, maybe we could all keep in touch with the boy if they log on to Pet Talk and post updates! I am glad you found someone to care for him and be a sorta doggy adoption agent, and I bet he'll be happy in his new home, and yours and Shiloh's blood pressure will drop considerably once the worrying is over.

RachelJ
04-14-2001, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by aly:
I've been thinking and I remembered how Shiloh came into my life before Dessi died. I know she was sent from God to help me through the time of loss. A month ago, Reece suddenly came into my life. I wasn't looking for another dog but adopted him on pure feelings of fate and destiny. I just wonder if I was meant to rescue Harley from the shelter, if I was meant to find a really good home for Harley, and if Reece was meant to come into my life to help me deal with the pain of losing Harley. .

Yes, yes, yes to all of the above and I think you are Harley's angel.



[This message has been edited by RachelJ (edited April 14, 2001).]

AdoreMyDogs
04-14-2001, 10:27 PM
Aly,

I am so sorry to hear that you must make this most painful of changes in your life. I am happy to hear that someone is interested in him in such a short amount of time, it's truly a blessing. You have me crying, I feel your loss so much and I am so sorry for you. I wish I could be more helpful but time will heal your wounds. It's a brave thing you are doing and it's the right decision. I am glad it's coming to end soon and you will be feeling better knowing that Harley has a new place to drop anchor forever and that sweet kitty can live out the rest of her years in peace.

I honestly know by experience that this is very, very difficult but know that pet talk folks will try to help you as much as we can. Although my heart is heavy because I know the pain you are feeling by experience, I am also happy that it's a happy ending for everyone. Harley will be fine, he'll be happy and spunky and he'll never forget the love you provided for him.

I wish I could help more, I am having a hard time seeing what I type because my eyes are full of tears. Happy and sad tears. Happy for all animals involved, sad for your pain.

Take care,

Leslie

shais_mom
04-15-2001, 10:00 PM
Aly, My heart goes out to you. I can't imagine how your heart is breaking. But I agree with what everyone else has said, he came into your life for a reason, and so did Reece. And you never know maybe in a couple months down the road you can open your heart and bring in another homeless pet. There are so many out there, all of us on here want to save them all! Hopefully the kitty will accept the situation, how do the kitty and Reece get along? Am I correct in remembering that you work at an animal shelter?
I agree that hopefully the new potential owners of Harley have a computer and will willingly join the board and keep us posted.
You are in out thoughts and prayers.

aly
04-15-2001, 11:06 PM
This is the absolute worst. I don't think I'm going to make it until Friday at this rate. The closer it gets, the more I want to take Harley and flee the country. I do not want him to go at all. I'm going to miss him so much. I can't go 5 minutes without getting teary eyed during the day. And every single time I think of him, the tears pour. I know its best for him though and I have to do it. I'm going to drive him to the woman's house on Friday afternoon. She's taking half the day off work and spending the weekend with him. She has a doggy door and a fenced in backyard and a female fox terrier for Harley to play with. This puts my mind at ease a little but Reece and I are going to miss him so much.

shais_mom: Reece is great with Shiloh. He gets along really well with every animal he's come across. At the pet store, he even tried to go make friends with a huge doberman. I'm sure I will be rescuing another homeless pet sometime. When I move into a place with enough space, I want to start a rescue. As for right now, I'm sure I'll keep falling in love with the dogs at the shelter and coming here to tell you all about them.

Thank you everyone for your kind thoughts.

Karen
04-16-2001, 07:17 AM
Hey, don't be too sad. Try to think of life from your kitty's point of view, if that helps. And you know, unlike so many people, that he really is going to someone who cares, and will be placed ina home where he doesn't have to constantly be seperated from another pet, and that while he will miss you, his overall quality of life will improve, right?

Just think of it as a nice end to a lovely interlude in both your lives, and know that we will all be thinking of you this week.

RachelJ
04-16-2001, 08:25 AM
Karen just said it so well. You have a wonderful loving heart Aly. I wish we could ease your pain. Please consider having someone go with you on the trip Friday afternoon.

wolflady
04-16-2001, 11:03 AM
Oh Aly, this must be so hard for you. I know it would be for me too, but all of us here at Pet Talk are thinking about you and your "kids" and we're here to support you. I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason. Maybe you were meant to take Harley in, because that's the only way he could find the right forever home, through you with Rachel's help. I think it's a great idea to have his new owner join us here on Pet Talk and keep us up to date on Harley's adjustment. Many hugs to you during this difficult time http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
Karen

aly
04-17-2001, 12:43 AM
Another woman has contacted me. This one is possibly interested in adopting Harley. She didn't say much but she did mention that she has smooth fox terriers. I wrote her back and we will see what happens.

I'm proud of Reece. He has mastered sit, stay, come, shake, and dance. Next is roll over http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

Pam
04-17-2001, 05:43 AM
It sounds like Reece is becoming quite the accomplished "little man." http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif It probably helps to concentrate on him now and also dear little Shiloh who will look at Harley's leaving differently than you do. You had a hard decision to make and I feel you are doing the right thing. It's wonderful that you have another possible forever home for Harley. Good luck with all of this Aly. You are a great mom!

aly
04-18-2001, 06:00 PM
Tomorrow is my last full day with Harley http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif I feel really bad for my animals because I think I'm upsetting them with my sad mood for the past week. I've been trying to keep myself busy but I am running out of ways. I think I checked these message boards 800 times today. It occupies my mind to be able to read about other people's pets. I have been spending all my time with Harley also. I always have him in the part of the house where I am. Shiloh is not happy about this at all but she will be okay after Friday. I hate it when one animal is always left out. This is what has been stressing me out so much for the past 2 months.

I hope you guys dont mind, I didn't really have a reason for posting this. I've just run out of things to ease my mind.

Pam
04-18-2001, 06:35 PM
Bless your heart Aly! You are such a good mom to your pets. I wish the general population would be half as concerned as you are for their pets' welfare. We'll all be thinking of you on Friday. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif Don't worry about posting too much on this. Trust me....we all understand!

jackiesdaisy1935
04-18-2001, 06:44 PM
Hi Aly, it's very hard for you right now, I think we have all been through a difficult time with our pets one way or another, you have done the best for all of you. Harley seems to be very outgoing and there is someone out there just waiting for him. I'm sure you can work something out with the person who takes him either communicating on Petoftheday, or maybe you will be able to visit or they will send you photos. You have been the best Mom to all your sweeties and are doing your very best to keep them all happy.

aly
04-18-2001, 07:57 PM
I forgot to tell you guys.. I got the dogs groomed on Friday. When I was in line to drop them off, Harley was barking because the other dogs were exciting him. This woman said really loud for all to hear, "That is a MEAN dog!" Then to her dog she said "You are the only good dog here." She then requested very loudly that my dogs (Reece was being quiet and just sitting there) be kenneled far away from her dog or she'd never come back. All Harley was doing was barking. It wasn't even a vicious bark. I told her that he's not mean, just excited and she ROLLED her eyes at me. Ugh, it made me so mad.

Anyway, the funny part of the story was when I went to pick them up. I saw a little wirehair fox terrier in one of the kennels up front. My sister was with me and started calling Harley's name to the fox terrier. I told her that wasn't Harley, that dog was about half his size. But then the woman took him out of the kennel to give me! I tried to tell her it was the wrong dog! He wasn't even responding to his name. Turns out it was Harley afterall. That was the first time I had him shaved and I didn't even recognize him. I can't wait to get pictures developed. He wasn't responding to his name because he was digging in his kennel trying to get to the dog next to him. The silly boy never gives up http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

They did quite a number on Reece too. They froofed his hair up so much. His head and tail were puffballs and his body was shaved. I had some water in the car and I had to get his hair damp to bring back his little curls. I'm still not used to these two naked, skinny dogs running around http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

RachelJ
04-18-2001, 08:45 PM
Just wanted to let you know you are on my mind and in my prayers. It was so sweet of you to get Harley groomed before you let him go. It is just another example of how you are doing everything possible to give him the best chance of becoming someone's forever dog. You are his angel. I only hope that the person who adopts him will keep in touch not only with you but with us, so that he can still be part of our extended family. (For some reason I am drawn to the stubborn, hard headed ones.)
Look forward with optimism for your little boy and for the peace that Shiloh deserves, and please try not to grieve anymore.

AdoreMyDogs
04-19-2001, 08:02 AM
Aly,

I am thinking about you on this day http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif You poor thing. Such a hard decision. Just stay strong and know that everything will be OK. It will be hardest on you then any of the animals, including Harley. He'll be so busy playing with his new family members that he won't have much time to worry about his new home. He'll be so happy...a new playmate! Shiloh will be so happy too, she'll breath a huge sigh of relief...she's been hunted for the last many weeks and she'll finally begin to feel like a pet and not a game animal. Just be brave http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif I wish I could help you more. You are such a kind person with such wonderful love for animals and you did everything in your power to prevent this issue from getting as bad as it is. It truly is fate that Reese came into your life to help mend your heart while you had to part with Harley. What angels our animals are.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Sudilar
04-19-2001, 09:22 AM
Aly,
Hold on. This is going to be the hardest day for you, but you must let go. It is for the greater good that you let him go. He will always remember you for the love and kindness you've shown him. Be strong. You have no other choice. It is fate that brings him to a new home. I'm sure he'll love it there. Your job is almost over. You've done the right thing even though it cost a piece of your heart. My thoughts are with you.
Sue

Pam
04-19-2001, 08:12 PM
Aly, This is your last night with Harley so I know you are very sad probably right about now. Maybe it will help to know that we are here are thinking of you. Snuggle up close to Harley tonight and give him lots of hugs and kisses from all of us. Happier days are ahead. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

sammi
04-19-2001, 08:34 PM
Aly, have been thinking about you tonight and hoping you had a good day with Harley and hope you both sleep peaceful tonight. I hope tomorrow when you turn Harley over to someone else you feel pride in all that you have done for him and that will help him adjust quickly into his new life. Try to feel happy for him. Wish you all well.

Karen
04-19-2001, 08:35 PM
How blessed to have been a waystation
For a pup who needed you so
And in reminded him what it means to be loved
Makes it more heartbreaking to have to let go.

How sweet to welcome a visitor
Into home and heart and all your lives
Not knowing it was to be temporary
Just caring and saving his life

How brave, how sad for Shiloh cat
To share her home and your love like that
And though he couldn't overcome his terrier genes
You tried to make it work, tried so many means

How sad it must be, this last night
To have to do what you mind knows is right
But your aching heart doesn't care why
So hard it is to make this solemn good-bye

How joyful it is, smile with aching heart
You know, we know, that for all he must depart
And that silly sunny goofy face
Will be better off in another home, another place

How sweet it will be, to give him to one
Who knows how he his, knows what he's done
But makes room in her home, a waystation to be
And promises to find a good home for Harley

He's been groomed and bathed and is spiffy as can be
He's been loved and hugged repeatedly
And you, brave as you can be, will let him go
And you know, don't you, that he'll always know
That love exists, that he can be worthy of praise
And he'll carry you in his doggy heart, too
No matter where he spends his days

For Shiloh, dear Shiloh, the worry will finally cease
She'll still have a dog-friend in brother Reece
The stress will dissipate, the heartbreak dull to an ache
And at last, when all is settled, there will again be peace.

Chin up, Aly, be a good boy Harley
And Reece, be extra sweet to Shiloh and Mama these next couple days, okay?

jackiesdaisy1935
04-19-2001, 08:56 PM
Good luck to you Aly and to Harley too, will be thinking of you tonight and tomorrow.

AdoreMyDogs
04-20-2001, 06:34 AM
Karen that was beautiful. Everytime I read the latest post in this topic I cry, and that poem was so perfect and beautiful I cried even harder.

Aly, I hope you had a nice day with Harley yesterday and it helped you build some good memories for you to hold on to.

Love to you, Harley, Reese, and Shiloh on this sad day.

-Leslie

RachelJ
04-20-2001, 07:22 AM
God be with you, Harley and Aly.

Sadie's Mom
04-20-2001, 07:54 AM
Aly: I have been reading these posts for the past week and my heart goes out to you. You are a very kind, loving and caring person - you have a difficult task today and yet you are carrying it off with grace and courage. I do not know you personally but I can feel the love you have for Harley and all your pets. As hard as it is to give him up you are doing what is best for all. You, Harley, Shiloh and Reece are in my thoughts and prayers today.

Carolyn

tatsxxx11
04-20-2001, 09:59 AM
Bless you Aly. Bless you precious, precious Harley and prayers that your transistion into your new home is a happy one. Aly,
I know in your heart you will always think of yourself as Harley mom, and he will always love you. You are so brave Aly. I hope you have the chance to visit Harley often. I can't read or think about this without crying. Love Sandra

Stenograsaurus
04-20-2001, 05:27 PM
Oh, dear Aly, I just wanted to let you know that I was thinking of you all day. What you have had to do today was probably one of the hardest things you have had to experience. You did the right thing though. I want you to know that I admire you for the strength and courage you have shown through this whole situation. YOu are an inspiration. I just wanted to let you know my thoughts and prayers are with you on this day and in the days days to come.

aly
04-20-2001, 10:23 PM
I just got home. I am not handling this well at all. The important thing is Harley, Shiloh, and Reece are all happy. I wanted to tell everyone thanks for thinking of me, it really helped me on the long drive home alone. I will post the details when I am feeling better.

Sudilar
04-21-2001, 09:11 AM
Aly,
Just wanted to say that I hope you are doing better today and you will be in my thoughts. Hang in there.
Sue

jackiesdaisy1935
04-21-2001, 11:34 AM
Aly, we know what a difficult time this is for you and I have been thinking about you all morning. Give your babies a hug from all of us.

aly
04-21-2001, 01:25 PM
Here's the update, its going to be hard for me to write so I don't know how long or short it will be. Thursday was pretty uneventful. I just spent time with him and worried about Friday. The day seemed like an eternity but at the same time it seemed like it was over in a flash. I couldn't fall asleep until around 5am and I woke up at 6:45am on Friday morning.

We packed up all of his toys, bowls, food, etc. I loaded the car and went to my sister's with the dogs so we could say goodbye. We took Harley and Reece to the park to play. I left Reece to stay with my sister while I was gone and Harley and I started driving at about 1:30. I didn't have anyone come with me because I sort of wanted to say goodbye to him alone. This was probably a really bad choice because it ripped me apart. We drove for about 3 hours and I made one last stop at the lake where we spread Dessi's ashes. I walked Harley around there and we talked to Dessi. Harley sat on my lap and licked my face. He sensed my mood and was telling me everything would be okay.

We got to his foster home around 5:30pm. He walked right in and started pooping. The little wh fox terrier he's with is such a sweetie but she will put him in his place if he crosses boundaries with her. Everything between them seemed fine and they mainly ignored each other after some sniffs. Harley was having a good time playing with toys. He also walked around the backyard and peed on everything.

When it came time to say goodbye, I was in pieces. Harley really didn't care much. That helped some. He was struggling to get away from me so he could play with the toys some more. I feel very comfortable with him being there but my heart is broken because I love and miss him so much.

This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I pray none of you are ever put into this position. Thank you all for your beautiful words, they bring even more tears to my eyes. Through all my tears, I realize I did what had to be done and I know Harley will be better off when he gets to his new home. Shiloh can also be in peace. She seems to already know he's gone for good because she's been running around at top speed all morning pouncing on me and Reece. Reece has chased her a little a few times but he is very gentle. She loves antagonizing him. He wasn't really playing with her too much but I think in a few days these two will be playing well.

I hope no one looks down on me for my decision. I only did it because it was the only way I knew of to allow all three of my animals to be happy. Harley's life was very hard for his first seven years but I feel so fortunate to have been able to rescue him and show him what love is. Hopefully his new owners will love him like I do and maybe he'll even go to a home with a fox terrier friend. I will remain in contact with his foster mommy and so I will update you all on the adoption process.

RachelJ
04-21-2001, 04:35 PM
Aly, what you are experiencing is grief, and it is a natural thing for you to go through. Some of us have experienced grief in making the choice of euthanization for a very sick or infirm furkid. There is no manual for these decisions, no place where it is written out for what is the "right" thing to do, consequently we are filled with conflicting thoughts and emotions...with doubt as well as loss and the enormity of the responsibility to our little loved one.

If any of us felt that the choices you have made were casually made or ill conceived, you should know that we would have spoken up in a heart beat and given you more unsolicited advice than you could even imagine. I doubt that there is anyone on this board who doesn't feel that you made the right decision for Shiloh or for Harley. Yes, you will miss him, but please, please, don't doubt the choice you made. You made the best choice that was humanly possible given all the circumstances and conditions that prevailed. And yes, this grief you feel will be with you for awhile. But you have to work at not letting it consume you. After I finally made the decision to have my dear, sweet Tizzie euthanized, I was in such a state. I had to limit the times which I would allow myself to even think about it. I selected the times I was taking a bath or shower. Those where the times I cried and cried. Other times, I just didn't allow myself to think about it. This let me grieve, but not go into a depression. Now try to get a lot of rest and eat with nutrition in mind as you have been under much stress. Our thoughts are with you.

[This message has been edited by RachelJ (edited April 21, 2001).]

shais_mom
04-21-2001, 09:56 PM
Oh Aly, you are so tenderhearted, you poor thing. I agree with Rachel, we all have dealt with tough decisions when it comes to our pets, Rachel was very sympathetic to me when I was considering taking Shai back to the HS if she ran away again. I felt and still feel awful thinking of that, but when you are at your wits end, you have no choice. For me it was the heartache of watching her run and not come back, or getting hit by a car in front of me. For you it was the safety and happiness of your beloved Shiloh.
Even now with Shai's epilepsy, if it comes down to it and it isn't epilepsy and a brain tumor, whether or not to have a CT/MRI, and whether or not to treat it. I have already decided as much as she is my heart and soul, I couldn't in good concious prolong her life and suffering. Would her quality of life outweigh my desire to keep her around? I don't think so. She is such a sweet soul, I couldn't stand to see her suffer.
After much ado, and babbling on, I am trying to say, dear Aly, we support you in your heartwrenching decision, and whenever you want to talk about it you can get on here and talk to us or email anyone of us. I wish I had your address, I would send you a card.


[This message has been edited by shais_mom (edited April 21, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by shais_mom (edited April 21, 2001).]

AdoreMyDogs
04-21-2001, 10:24 PM
Aly,

I know how it feels to part with someone special to you. I had a goffins cockatoo, I had her for 4 years. I got her as a handfed baby, it was truly love at first sight with her. Even though she was $900 I had to have her, it was an instant bond for the both of us (and she was from a pet store that I worked at and trusted that only sold tropical fish and handfed, captive born birds, no puppies or kittens). I named her Pica because her and I would play Peek-a-boo at the store while I worked on raising $900 to buy that beautiful white angel baby. When I finally took her home, she fit into my house like she was truly at home. She was my baby, she was my infant, she was my precious angel, she was the most important thing in my life...even more important then my dogs if you can believe that. I noticed that about a month after I got that precious creature that my asthma got a bit worse....then a bit more worse...then I went to different doctors and allergists, after about 3 1/2 years I had to decide....health or Pica...health or Pica....health or Pica. I actually decided I would rather have Pica...until my asthma got so bad that I would take 2 puffs of my inhaler, then 10 minutes later need more puffs. It became a different choice...life or Pica...life or Pica...life or Pica. On my final night with Pica she actually slept with me on my bed all night. We had taken naps together often and she'd preen my face and hair until I fell asleep but on our last night together I let her spend the whole night snuggeling and dreaming with me. It will be those special memories that I will hold in my heart forever.

I ended up making that most painful, dreadful decesion I have ever done. It was harder then putting my beautiful lab to sleep. It was harder then seeing the first stray cat that I saved dart outside and get struck and killed by a car...it was harder then anything I have ever done, and hopefully I will never have to go through that much grief again. I ended up giving Pica to a wonderful stay-home mother who had other birds for Pica to play with. It was the best thing for everyone. Pica got to be with other featherheads, and I got to breath easily.

To rehome a beloved animal may very well be the most dreadful thing and it takes alot of strength and bravery. It took tremendous strength and bravery from me, and it did for you as well. You did it. This was the hardest part, it all gets easier from this point on....and if you can keep in contact with his new owners that's perfect.

I am so sorry you feel so much pain, it's such a crummy feeling...and I so much remember packing up toys and bowls and typing up a decription of the pet and that long drive....I am balling now. Reading your description of the final moments tugs at my heartstrings tremendously.

Aly, my heart sincerely goes out to you in this sad time. I know that it's not sad for the animals, Harley's going to have a blast, and my Pica has a wonderful life now, but it's sure sad you had to make such a painful decesion.

Love,

Leslie

aly
04-22-2001, 12:58 AM
Hi everyone. I'm still having a hard time with this but I'm trying really hard to act happy for Reece because he gets really upset when I'm upset. I had a lot of good distractions today. My uncle from Chicago is in town. I went with him, my sister, and her roommate to a state park. We brought Reece and he had a really good time. We walked on some wooded trails to a stream with a lot of rocks and small waterfalls. Everyone we passed had to stop and pet Reece. At dusk, we went to this bridge downtown where tons of bats fly out from every evening. Reece was a wimp at first and was shaking. I'm not really sure what he was afraid of but he got quickly adjusted and had a really good time. Everyone wanted to go out to eat dinner but I made them go to Sonic so we could take Reece http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif When we got home, he and Shiloh actually played. She is very trusting of him and rolled on to her back in front of him and batted his face.

I got an email from the woman Harley is staying with and he's doing great. She's treating him wonderfully and I think he's just having the time of his life.

Pam
04-22-2001, 06:36 AM
Aly...This is great news! It sounds like Harley is going to be fine. What a wonderful ending to all of the turmoil. I hope you can still keep in touch with Harley's foster mom and even with his new forever mom when that happens. Reece and Shiloh playing....what a happy mental picture I have in my head!!! That is just wonderful! Maybe you could send us a picture or two. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

Sudilar
04-22-2001, 11:29 AM
Aly,
That's good news. I'm glad Harley's doing well. Take each day one at a time. They say it gets a little easier. You know you did the right thing.
Sue

Sudilar
04-22-2001, 11:42 AM
Leslie,
What pain you must have felt! My asthma ALMOST caused me to lose my first GSD. Back in the 70's, before all this wonderful asthma medication we have now, I discovered that I was severely allergic to my new GSD puppy. My asthma was so bad. I was sick constantly. Through some extreme good luck, I was introduced to an allergist who agreed to work with me (after I refused to get rid of my puppy!). The treatment worked and after one year of shots, I became tolerant of my dog. It was a long and hard fight, but it was well worth it! Today's medicine keeps my asthma under control. I know how devastating it was to give up your beloved bird. My heart goes out to you.
Sue

------------------
***Save a life, ADOPT***

[This message has been edited by Sudilar (edited April 22, 2001).]

Sudilar
04-22-2001, 11:45 AM
Aly,
That's good news. I'm glad Harley's doing well. Take each day one at a time. They say it gets a little easier. You know you did the right thing.
Sue

aly
04-22-2001, 11:40 PM
Rachel your advice really helped me. Every time I think about Harley and the past week, I can't help but cry. So I've been trying to wait until I get in the shower to think about it. Then I just let go and cry. When I get out, I try to regain composure for Shiloh and Reece. My moods affect Reece more than any other dog I've ever seen. Knowing I have to take care of these two helps me be stronger. If I didn't have them, I'd be in a fetal position on the floor.

Pam
04-23-2001, 06:38 AM
Aly, Rachel has excellent advice as always. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif I'm glad you have Shiloh and Reece to get you through this. Any pet owner can tell stories of how their pets have helped them get through hard times. I may sound a little biased, but I do think poodles are very intuitive. All of mine have shown an incredible sense of when things are wrong and rise to the occasion to cheer me up! Reece sounds like such a sweet, sensitive little guy! Glad you're not on the floor in a fetal position! If you were, though, I'm sure Reece and Shiloh would be laying right next to you trying to get you to play!! That's what my cats and dog do when they see me on the floor! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Pam (edited April 23, 2001).]

tatsxxx11
04-23-2001, 05:11 PM
Aly, you really are being so incredibly brave, and my heart just aches for the pain and saddness you are experiencing. But blessedly, you have Shiloh and Reece there to distract you, NEED you, and comfort you! I too have gotten "on the floor" at times, and over my girls come, running, licking my face and wondering what's wrong?? I've always found the best place to let it all out is in the shower. Just cry all you want, as loudly as you want. There isn't too much greater a pain than the one you are experiencing. Thankfully you have the knowledge that Harley is safe and happy. And, when you are stronger, just think how excited he will be to see you again. Hold tight to Reece and Shiloh. They love you!!!

Leslie. Your story of the beautiful Pica is just heartbreaking. What incredible love. I am sorry you had to lose such a beautiful pet of a lifetime.

[This message has been edited by tatsxxx11 (edited April 23, 2001).]

aly
04-28-2001, 01:14 PM
Harley is still doing good in the foster home. He is probably going to a home in Washington and will be the only pet. This is probably good because you can't exactly do a dog intro easily from that distance. If he didn't get along with their dog, I'd hate for him to be tossed around even more. He's crazy about water and has been playing with the hose and in the pond. Here are a few pics of him his foster mom sent me today. (His hair is growing back fast. I need to scan some pics I took right after I got him groomed).

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/015/2y/qu/dK/s745088.jpg

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/001/TL/FS/SS/sb82813.jpg

RachelJ
04-28-2001, 02:10 PM
Oh, Aly, that pic of him up to his arm pits in water is so cute. I alway thought it would be fun to buy one of those wading pools for my dogs, but none of mine want anything to do with water.

He's half way there now. I think you just have to trust this foster mom to make sure he will have a happy loving home. How are you doing? At least as good as he is I hope http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif In other words....be happy!

tatsxxx11
04-28-2001, 03:40 PM
The pics are beautiful Aly. And so is Harley. I think they will do everything possible to be certain he is in the BEST home!! I hope you are holding up as well as possible. I think of you so often.

jackiesdaisy1935
04-28-2001, 05:27 PM
Beautiful pictures of Harley, he looks like he is having a good time. Nice of his foster Mom to send them to you.

aly
04-28-2001, 05:27 PM
I've been doing better holding myself together in public. At night it seems to be the hardest because I live alone and have a lot of time to think. Reece and Shiloh do help but they've been so lazy recently, all they want to do is sleep. It must be the hot weather. It was pretty hard on me getting those pictures of Harley today though. I am so nervous because he'll have to fly on a plane to get to his new home. I am also nervous because I won't know the people he's going to. I've been spending extra time at the shelter helping the dogs there because that makes me feel better. I'm getting sooooo attached to a lot of them though. I love getting to know them and spending a lot of time with the dogs who have been there for awhile but at the same time it breaks my heart that people come in only wanting puppies or purebreds and these perfectly wonderful dogs are ignored constantly. I don't have anything against people getting puppies but when that's ALL they'll even consider, I get a little upset. Its funny when people come in wanting "a dog who doesn't shed, bark, have accidents in the house, chew, jump, .." and we tell them we have the perfect one for them and lead them to the beanie baby shelf, hehe. Opps, I just got way off topic. Back to Harley, I miss him to death but I am using this whole experience to help other people too. I've directed a few people to this board in similar situations. I hope they check it for the sake of their animals' safety and happiness.

Thanks all for checking on me. You have all helped so much.

[This message has been edited by aly (edited April 28, 2001).]

Pam
04-28-2001, 09:06 PM
Aly, I was just thinking of you yesterday, and was going to ask if you had heard from Harley's foster mom, so it was great to see these pictures. It seems like he is going to be fine. Hope we can say the same for you! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif How are Shiloh and Reece doing these days without Harley? Does Reece seem to miss him? I guess Shiloh doesn't. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

Sudilar
04-28-2001, 10:41 PM
Good to hear that Harley is fine in his foster home. Glad to hear you're hangin' in there.

Logan
04-29-2001, 11:43 AM
Aly,
I know you miss Harley terribly, but you have done such a good thing for all of you, and he looks wonderful in the pictures! You'll heal, slowly, but surely, and Reece and Shiloh are there to help you through it!
My thoughts are with you.
Logan

aly
04-29-2001, 10:34 PM
Pam, Shiloh misses Harley about as much as she misses the vet who spayed her http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif Reece has seemed to miss Harley. He prefers playing with dogs. It takes all my energy to get him to play with me. He will do it sometimes but he mostly just likes to sleep on my lap. I would take him back to doggy day care but he'll only play with a dog if I'm there. When I'm not around, all he'll do is yelp and look for me. I have a feeling I'll be dealing with this seperation anxiety for a long time since he has it so bad. Its gotten a lot better now though. I can actually close the bathroom door once in awhile. Its funny when I open it and see Reece and Shiloh sitting there waiting. I should take a picture of that sometime.