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View Full Version : Huhhh... great. Just perfect.


zoomer
08-17-2006, 02:11 PM
Lisa got my show dog, Lola, spayed. I am sooo angry... why would she do that? I don't get it. One day she just tells me Lola's spayed. She told me it's because there are so many un-neautered dogs in our neighborhood that she doesn't want them mounting Lola to make mixed breeds... I mean, good idea but bad idea at the same time. After all that work I can't even show her, and she just throws it at me, no discussing, just throws it at me like it's nothing. Now her show career is ruined. How am I supposed to show her now? I mean, what's the point? The whole point of showing is to identify what dogs should be bred. I was thinking about "tricking" the show people... but how would I do that? I don't even want to do that. Ugh I am so mad! :mad:
Roxyluvsme13
08-17-2006, 02:13 PM
Actually the point of showing isn't to identify what dogs should be bred.. (atleast in my opinion) But well, it's her dog, and not yours, and maybe she wasn't fit to be a show dog.
k9krazee
08-17-2006, 02:19 PM
Actually the point of showing isn't to identify what dogs should be bred.. (atleast in my opinion) But well, it's her dog, and not yours, and maybe she wasn't fit to be a show dog.

Actually...that is the whole point, lol. To show which dogs fit the standard the most and should be bred.

I'm sorry that she spayed her without contacting you...you could always do some other sport with her http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/kangashrew13/shrug.gif And you still have your other "show dog".
Roxyluvsme13
08-17-2006, 02:20 PM
Actually...that is the whole point, lol. To show which dogs fit the standard the most and should be bred.

Well, yeah, but it's not the whole point..It's a big point, but that's not what I meant. lol Nevermind :p
Vela
08-17-2006, 02:23 PM
Well, it's her dog, and so she has the right to decide what to do with her. She is also right about there being too many dogs already. Perhaps she just decided she didn't want to show her. As far as tricking the show judges, well obviously that's just stupid and wrong and you know it. Nobody is going to help you know how to do that. I'm sorry you are so angry, but she wasn't your dog in the first place, and breeding her wouldn't have given you the puppies, they would have belonged to her actual owner, so I don't really see why you are so angry. If someone had spayed your dog, okay I could see it, but she wasn't your dog. And putting work into it and getting her ready to show, still taught you plenty about how to go about it, so you didn't come away with nothing, unless you choose to see it that way.
zoomer
08-17-2006, 02:23 PM
Actually the point of showing isn't to identify what dogs should be bred.. (atleast in my opinion) But well, it's her dog, and not yours, and maybe she wasn't fit to be a show dog.

ACTUALLY Bri, that is the point, and maybe before saying that to me, since I know what I'm saying about showing, you should do some research. And she's my co-dog, that means I own her too. She is fit to be a show dog, perfectly, and we agreed to have her be a show dog, not only a pet.

Don't take this post to offence because it wasn't meant to offend you.


Actually...that is the whole point, lol. To show which dogs fit the standard the most and should be bred.

I'm sorry that she spayed her without contacting you...you could always do some other sport with her http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/kangashrew13/shrug.gif And you still have your other "show dog".

I'm not really into any other dog sports. I used to be into agility, but now I'm in comformation and I don't want to show her in any other sports.

Sure Diesel has 4-5 more years in his show career, but I don't get to practice with him and train him much. Lola is my neighbor's dog, I could train her & practice with her everyday. I can't do that with Diesel.
zoomer
08-17-2006, 02:26 PM
Well, it's her dog, and so she has the right to decide what to do with her. She is also right about there being too many dogs already. Perhaps she just decided she didn't want to show her. As far as tricking the show judges, well obviously that's just stupid and wrong and you know it. Nobody is going to help you know how to do that. I'm sorry you are so angry, but she wasn't your dog in the first place, and breeding her wouldn't have given you the puppies, they would have belonged to her actual owner, so I don't really see why you are so angry. If someone had spayed your dog, okay I could see it, but she wasn't your dog. And putting work into it and getting her ready to show, still taught you plenty about how to go about it, so you didn't come away with nothing, unless you choose to see it that way.

Once again, she was 1/2 my dog, my co-dog. And since she was my show dog she should have discussed it with me first. Sure maybe Lola is her pet, but she's my show dog so it should have been discussed between us, and that's why I am so angry. And yeah, I did learn a lot, but that doesn't mean its going to pay off with Lola. I took my time and my energy to train her and now its gone to no use.
Roxyluvsme13
08-17-2006, 02:28 PM
ACTUALLY Bri, that is the point, and maybe before saying that to me, since I know what I'm saying about showing, you should do some research. And she's my co-dog, that means I own her too. She is fit to be a show dog, perfectly, and we agreed to have her be a show dog, not only a pet.

Don't take this post to offence because it wasn't meant to offend you.

Okay, well.. whatever. It's not a huge deal, seeing as there will always be other dogs. You can still visit her and play with her, and maybe her actual owner thought she shouldn't be shown. Yes, it was kind of rude to not talk to you first, but hey, there are too many dogs in this world, and maybe she realized Lola wasn't breed standard enough.
k9krazee
08-17-2006, 02:32 PM
You say she's your co-dog, but did you actually sign papers, help pay for a dog, etc (things that I think a co-owner would have to do...but I really don't know about this). I also wasn't aware that minors could co-own dogs, because minors can't even legally own a dog.
lv4dogs
08-17-2006, 02:34 PM
You say she's your co-dog, but did you actually sign papers, help pay for a dog, etc (things that I think a co-owner would have to do...but I really don't know about this). I also wasn't aware that minors could co-own dogs, because minors can't even legally own a dog.

I was thinking the same thing. And doesn't the co-owner usually care for the dog? It is the breeder who has the rights to take them back, breed them, show then when ever they want but the co-owned dog usually lives with the co-owner.

I also agree with some of the others. Sure she should of talked it over with you but there could of been underlaying issues that prevented her from being of decent show quality.
zoomer
08-17-2006, 02:36 PM
Okay, well.. whatever. It's not a huge deal, seeing as there will always be other dogs. You can still visit her and play with her, and maybe her actual owner thought she shouldn't be shown. Yes, it was kind of rude to not talk to you first, but hey, there are too many dogs in this world, and maybe she realized Lola wasn't breed standard enough.

I didn't mean to sound rude. I'm still gonna visit and walk her and play with her. She couldn't have realized that Lola wasn't breed standard enough, because she doesn't know as much about showing as I, and I would've been the one to notice that.


You say she's your co-dog, but did you actually sign papers, help pay for a dog, etc (things that I think a co-owner would have to do...but I really don't know about this). I also wasn't aware that minors could co-own dogs, because minors can't even legally own a dog.

No, but we were going to put my name on them but then she got spayed so now there is no point.
zoomer
08-17-2006, 02:37 PM
I was thinking the same thing. And doesn't the co-owner usually care for the dog? It is the breeder who has the rights to take them back, breed them, show then when ever they want but the co-owned dog usually lives with the co-owner.

I also agree with some of the others. Sure she should of talked it over with you but there could of been underlaying issues that prevented her from being of decent show quality.

**sigh** You don't understand. If there was some issue she would have discussed it with me first.
Kfamr
08-17-2006, 02:39 PM
Sounds completely fine to me...?

Better off for the dog's health.
zoomer
08-17-2006, 02:42 PM
Sounds completely fine to me...?

Better off for the dog's health.

Completely fine? She came from awesome parents and was meant to be shown. She was a show puppy. And I took my time and energy to train her, and now she's spayed. That sound completely fine to you?
Roxyluvsme13
08-17-2006, 02:43 PM
Completely fine? She came from awesome parents and was meant to be shown. She was a show puppy. And I took my time and energy to train her, and now she's spayed. That sound completely fine to you?
Yes, I mean sorry, but it does. She may have came from excellent parents, but she could turn out horribly in the show ring.
Sevaede
08-17-2006, 02:45 PM
Everyone here has made some good points. :)

Life does go on. Sure, it may be irritating for you but there will be other chances, not to minimize the importance of what you said or anything. Now, you and Lola can enjoy stress free play time!
Kfamr
08-17-2006, 02:45 PM
Completely fine? She came from awesome parents and was meant to be shown. She was a show puppy. And I took my time and energy to train her, and now she's spayed. That sound completely fine to you?


Yep, I do believe that's what I said!
It's not like it's a necessity for a dog from "awesome parents" to be shown. Now, her risks of several cancers is reduced, awesome!


I thought you had another "show dog" anyways?
i_rescue
08-17-2006, 02:47 PM
I'm sorry Lola got spayed. I would be very angry, too. Maybe you should start the discussion and ask Lisa why she spayed Lola?
Flatcoatluver
08-17-2006, 02:53 PM
Arn't you 13? That's young! There are plenty of changes for you to show. Just be happy of that experience you got, imagine that on a resume!
Iilo
08-17-2006, 03:05 PM
You can show altered dogs in juniors if you co-own the dog. Showing in AKC juniors events is a great way to meet people who need an extra hand. You'll probably end up getting experience in the breed ring anyway if you're nice and curteous to people you meet.

And I'm sorry, but there is no way you can trick an AKC judge into not knowing she's spayed. If you knew so much about conformation, you would realize how stupid and wrong that would be to even try that. It's an obvious difference to ME, so I can't imagine how it would be to someone who's had 30+ years in dogs.

You have no legal right to Lola, therefore you have no right to be upset. From the pictures I've seen of her, she didn't look like she was going to do much in the rottie ring anyway.
Muddy4paws
08-17-2006, 03:13 PM
I dont know much about show dogs but if someone is willing to show a dog in the first place then change her mind about it then Im sure it was a good reason, Also I know if I found out someone was ranting about me online to people about the decisions on MY dog I really wouldnt be happy and I'm sure she wouldnt be either, Maybe actually talk to her about it instead of coming on here and talking about her like shes has made the wrong decision as someone has already said you dont own the dog, you Co own it so am I right in thinking the dog is with her all the time? as in her care? does she pay the vet bills? so what she does with it is completely up to her even if she did make a verbal agreement I'm sure she had a good enough reason and I'm sure she was thinking of the dogs health more than your wants of a show dog just like any other loving owner would do. You should try looking at it from her point of view I actually think she has made a very wise decision to get her spayed especially if there are many male dogs about I think I would prefer a spayed dog rather than having puppies running around.
Tollers-n-Dobes
08-17-2006, 03:15 PM
I'm not trying to be rude, but to be completely honest, just by looking at her pictures she didn't look like she would ever succeed in a ring. Yes, she is pretty, but I've been around a lot of Rottweilers in my life and know a few breeders and Lola doesn't even compare to their dogs...even when they were puppies. Sorry. Like I said, I wasn't trying to be rude - just voicing my opinion. That, and like others have said - at 13 you cannot legally own or co-own a dog...atleast not around here anyway. Plus, this all sounds kind of odd to me as the breeder would have had to have had a say in whether Lola should or shouldn't be shown, and Lisa would have discussed the spaying thing with the breeder (if the breeder was any good) - not you. When I get my Toller, I can't tell my breeder that I'm going to show her and then turn around a few months later and decide to spay her without consulting my breeder first. It just doesn't work that way.


Also, please somebody correct me if I'm worng, but I thought the only co-ownership than can be had over a dog is between the breeder and the owner only?
moosmom
08-17-2006, 03:18 PM
You might want to check and see if they have a "household pet" category in dogs. I have 3 purebred cats that were rescues. 2 of them I showed in household pet. They did great. Wouldn't hurt to check, right?
buttercup132
08-17-2006, 03:20 PM
Oh well now she is much healthier.Thats something to be glad about.

No effence but you dont really co-own her...
theres nothing saying you do, you dont pay anything towards her so what made her half yours?
You would of been her handler not her co-owner.

I co-own Rowdy.
I pay monthly for him but its still the ladys horse.
She sold Trigger and I had no say in it.
I didnt want him to go but its her horse and she dose what she wants and even though I actually paid half the board ect I didnt get to have a say in him leaving.

You have the other dog to show anyways.
Just be happy for that.

Ya it sucks your out a show dog but you learned alot and will be ready for the next one that comes. Maybe her mom decided she wasnt fit for the show ring or didnt want to put all that money into it because like you said you dont pay for anything and showing is expnsive as you should know.

Are you sure theres no other sport.
What about flyball?


EDIT: Also sounds like she has a smart mommy if there are male dogs running around not fixed. You dont want to add to the population of unwanted dogs right? And greater the risk of cancer .
Husky_mom
08-17-2006, 03:40 PM
I have to say yes, Lola was pretty, but to my appreciation not a "perfection" of breed standard, and by the way not a show prospect, not to offend but she wasnīt in my eyes..........

Other thing you always claimed you co-owned her and Diesel, but you have no legal papers or anything, itīs like if I said "yeah thatīs my momīs dog but I co-own him/her because I trin him/her". Co-own is a very different thing than training/playing/handling a dog.

this I took from a previous thread you posted I bolded some things YOU posted

Do you show dogs?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you show dogs? Yes
Are they your dogs? No
Are they your co-dogs? No
Do you just handle them (so they aren't your dog or your co-dog)? Yes, they are my friend's dogs'
What are their breeds? Diesel, Boxer and Lola, Rottweiler

Sorry to hear you got mad, it may seem they throwed your work away, but now sheīll be a better pet with what you taught her, despite not being in the show side.

Many here made very good points toward the issue here, but donīt get mad, life goes on and as Lola may not be a show dog youīll find another eventually that will...........
bckrazy
08-17-2006, 04:57 PM
Seriously, just calm it down. Why do you care if Lola is spayed? You can show speutered dogs in Juniors. The decision is up to the owners & the breeder, not you, even if you trained her. A 13 year-old doesn't co-own, or own, any dogs. Just because you're a handler doesn't mean you are entitled to ownership.

We a l l completely support altering dogs that are anything less than superb breed quality, and the owners either saw that she was not, or that they were not responsible enough to watch her 24/7 during her heats and prevent an unwanted pregnancy, and they're smart enough to admit it. That is really, really good news! Would you rather she ended up producing mixed breed litters with possibly dangerous temperaments, and increase her chances of getting pyo or mammary/uterus cancers?
Iilo
08-17-2006, 11:03 PM
Actually, to correct a misconception I've seen on this thread -- people under 18 can legally co-own a dog (I've never heard of the term "co-dog" before PT though). Many juniors "sign onto" (which is a legal documentation process of simply signing onto the dog's papers as an owner) dogs to show in junior showmanship.

And people under 18 can legally own a dog as well, but I don't think they can legally sign contracts, which is why most dogs are simply under the parents' names (breeder contracts usually need to be signed when the dog comes from a responsible breeder).
DIANESDOGS
08-17-2006, 11:20 PM
I am sorry that you are so upset. I don't visit PT much and post even less so it is quite likely that I am missing something here.

Is Lisa an adult (over 18) and the legal owner of the dog? I mean, do you have a legal claim to CO-ownership? If not, then I must say I have to agree with the others. But I do understand your frustration and disappointment. :(
luvofallhorses
08-17-2006, 11:51 PM
Well, it's her dog, and so she has the right to decide what to do with her. She is also right about there being too many dogs already. Perhaps she just decided she didn't want to show her. As far as tricking the show judges, well obviously that's just stupid and wrong and you know it. Nobody is going to help you know how to do that. I'm sorry you are so angry, but she wasn't your dog in the first place, and breeding her wouldn't have given you the puppies, they would have belonged to her actual owner, so I don't really see why you are so angry. If someone had spayed your dog, okay I could see it, but she wasn't your dog. And putting work into it and getting her ready to show, still taught you plenty about how to go about it, so you didn't come away with nothing, unless you choose to see it that way.


well said.. in all honesty I am glad she got her spayed..why are you angry she got her spayed? not to offend you but there are a lot of problems an unspayed dog can have believe it or not and plus it helps stop the pet overpopulation problem. :)
cyber-sibes
08-18-2006, 02:23 PM
I can understand you feel cheated out of your opportunity. Life will bring you many such experiences. Best to accept it and grow. Lola is a better dog because of the training. You are a better handler for the experience. Let it go. Stay honest. Look at the bigger picture. ;)
GreyhoundGirl
08-18-2006, 02:27 PM
She should have asked, or at least told you first. JMO
Miss Z
08-18-2006, 02:34 PM
At the end of the day, whether she's spayed or not, does it make her any less of a dog?
zoomer
08-18-2006, 07:38 PM
I don't show in Juniors.


She should have asked, or at least told you first. JMO

Thank you..


At the end of the day, whether she's spayed or not, does it make her any less of a dog?

No, no, no, no.
Iilo
08-18-2006, 07:40 PM
Wow, a negative attitude like that is certainly going to get you far in the world of AKC.
Karen
08-18-2006, 07:54 PM
Seriously, Zoomer, if you had no financial investment in the dog, and no paperwork or contract saying you had an interest in her, chalk the whole thing up to experience. Next time, if you are seriously training a dog for the show ring, get a contract stipulating no spaying/neutering set up and signed by you and the dog's owner. Otherwise you have no grounds to object, other than emotional ones.
wolfsoul
08-18-2006, 08:05 PM
That's too bad, I know how dissapointing it is to miss out on a fun opportunity. I was so sad when Visa had to stay in Alberta longer and missed her show, but you know it turned out to be a good thing because I have since realised that Visa is still not ready to face the showring again. Maybe you will have such a good revelation as well.


Also, please somebody correct me if I'm worng, but I thought the only co-ownership than can be had over a dog is between the breeder and the owner only?
Nope, anyone can co-own a dog. :) Oftentimes you will see three or four names one dog. Marla and I are going to buy a puppy and co-own it together.

And a minor can co-own a dog. I was under 18 when I got Visa under a co-ownership.
Love That Collie
08-18-2006, 08:37 PM
Actually, a minor cannot enter into a "legal contract" solely by him/herself, without parent or legal guardian signing for and being responsible for the stipulations put forth in the contract. Unless the minor has been emancipated to adult status by a court of law prior to the signing of a "legal contract". Sure, a minor can sign and have his or her name on a contract but the contract in most instances is not enforceable legally for or against the minor unless a legal parent/guardian is on there also holding the merchandise (in this case) for the minor until the legal age of consent. (In the United States, have no idea about the Canadians)
Iilo
08-18-2006, 10:18 PM
My question would be -- are registration papers considered a legal contract?

Either way, my mom's name is on Rien first, but I co-own him.
Sevaede
08-19-2006, 08:02 AM
At the end of the day, whether she's spayed or not, does it make her any less of a dog?

Nope. :D

In any case, it's not the end of the world. One should be looking out for poochs best interest, first, and then our own. That is what has been done.

Lola is a pretty, pretty, girl. You may not have walked away from this endeavor with anything physically but you have gained knowledge and experience.