A Few Questions on Feeding Raw.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I have the most absolute desire to feed Raw, but the problem is we don't have
a) The money
b) the freezer space
I'm trying to convince my mom to buy a freezer though, we really need it anyways.
Questions:
What types of meat do you feed?
-How Much?
Is it cheaper than kibble?
Is it healthier?
-Prevent any health problems?
-Help teeth?
And any other information you want to provide me with ;).
Thanks for any and all help!

[finn's mom]

Do a search in here, there are TONS of threads, and, probably all your questions would be answered...as far as the difference it makes...I'll give you an example. My little RB dog, bruno, was about 12 or 13 when I changed him over cold turkey. I literally went from feeding him kibble to raw in one day. I fed him cubes of beef brisket and pureed veggies. I was nervous about feeding bones at that time (as in chicken) but, i let him chew on marrow bones and things like that, because he wasn't a voracious chewer and i wasn't worried about him breaking a tooth or breaking off pieces of bone that he'd swallow but couldn't digest (like pork or beef bones). He completely changed! He went from not being able to jump on the bed, barely able to walk fast, let alone run...he went from having bad breath, runny poop, throwing up daily, cloudy eyes, dry and dull fur...to being able to get up and down out of the bed and the car, he was running again, better breath, better teeth, solid poop, no puking, clear and bright eyes, shiny fur, it was amazing! And, he made nearly all of those obvious changes within a couple of days of raw feeding. Something drastic will have to happen to convince me that it isn't the right way to feed. ;)

As for Finn, he has little to no body odor at all, never throws up, small amount of poop, almost always solid (unless i feed a lot of food without bone)...he has no bad breath, no plaque (the chicken bones clean his teeth as he eats it), his skin and coat look awesome. The main thing I notice with him compared to other dogs his age fed kibble, is the breath. He just doesn't have stinky breath. ;)

As for what you're supposed to feed, it's something like 2 to 5% of the dog's weight. Depending on the activity level. And, a rule of thumb is to feed something at least as big as the dog's head so that they have to chew, instead of just gulping. Finn's a gulper, so, I have to do that. If your dog doesn't gulp, then you might not have to be so strict about the size of the food.

I don't find that it's any more expensive than feeding the quality dog food I'd choose to buy. I mean, yeah, it's cheaper to buy Ol' Roy or Kibbles and Bits or Pedigree, but, those aren't foods I'd buy if I were feeding kibble. I don't have a freezer, yet, and, I have a large dog. I just buy him a ten pound bag of chicken leg quarters and divide them into daily portions. Usually two leg quarters into one of those freezer/microwave/dishwasher safe disposable/reusable plastic containers (Ziploc and Glad both make them, as do others). I freeze several containers (a ten pound bag usually lasts Finn five to seven days), and, keep a couple out for the first couple days. I take one container out of the freezer at a time...empty a container that night, take one out of the freezer, etc. So, that gives each frozen portion a full day to thaw in the refrigerator. A freezer does allow you to buy in bulk, but, I've done it without one so far, you could probably manage. Especially with such little pups. ;)

As for the types, chicken leg quarters are Finn's main source of food. I will buy beef brisket and cut it up every so often, usually giving him a piece of beef as one of his two daily meals every couple days. Just for variety. I rarely will give him boneless meat (whether it be pork or beef), twice a day, just because his poop tends to be too soft (because there's no bone). I will also sometimes buy pork loin chops and cut them off the bone, and, replace a leg quarter meal with a pork meal every couple days. He's eaten salmon before, and, I am planning to check out a butcher here in the next couple days. David also can get pretty much a neverending supply of deer meat, so, Finn will probably be getting that a lot, too. Hope he likes it, because it seems like it may be the cheapest way for us to go!

Like I said, type the word raw into the search engine within Pet Talk, and, read a lot. Also, what I did was to join several groups on yahoo...several groups that were pro-raw and several that were anti-raw. I didn't go into either with a strong opinion, yet, just joined to get both sides...I didn't argue with the anti-raw group, just listened. I obviously chose raw, but, don't do it if you're not sure it's right for you. You have to be comfortable with it! Good luck!

[wolfsoul]

I feed any type of meat I can get my hands on. The more variety, the better in my opinion. She gets the regular stuff like chicken, beef, lamb, and pork. But more often I will feed her the more "exotic" things like moose, elk, venison, duck, pheasant, goose, llama, rabbit, goat, etc.

How much you feed depends on the dog. There is a scale that most people go by, however much percentage of meat per whatever pounds of body weight, but I don't pay attention to that. I pay attention to my dog and what she needs. If she is getting thin, I feed her more. If she's getting fat (which never happens lol) I'd feed her less.

Whether it's cheaper depends on the type of diet you are feeding. I feed "prey model" which means that I feed a large amount of meat compared to bones. Most people feed a Raw Meaty Bone type diet, which usually consists of mainly chicken backs and necks and stuff like that for the main protein source. At the most, these will be 60/40 bone to meat ratio. Feeding a prey model diet is terribly expensive. I spend a few hundred dollars a month on Visa's food alone, especially since I buy her alot of other things to like fruits and veggies, yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs, oils, etc. RMB style diets are definatly way cheaper than kibble. At the butcher I can buy a HUGE bag of chicken wings for two bucks. Even with the supplements, it's still cheaper than kibble. I prefer prey model, as I feel it's healthier and more natural, but RMB is still healthier than kibble in my opinion.

Visa's teeth have certainly been healthier since we've been doing raw. You ever notice how when a dog is done eating kibble, there is all that kibble stuck in his teeth? More and more bacteria builds up in the mouth over time and creates plaque and tartar. Raw meat does not get stuck in the teeth or create alot of plaque. That's why you are more likely to catch salmonella poisoning from a kibble-fed dog than a raw-fed dog. Plaque is just bacteria. Visa's teeth are sparkling white and her breath has never been better.

If your mom won't go for feeding both dogs raw, I'd atleast try and convince her to feed Lily raw. Small dogs really don't eat very much, it wouldn't be very expensive, and it should fit in your freezer. :)

[Roxyluvsme13]

Thanks for the advice! :D
Lily's not been eating her dog food anyways. She wants people food.. :rolleyes:. So, she weighs 4 and a half pounds.. Do you have any estimate on how much of the meat and any price estimations on how much that would be for about a month? I just noticed her teeth are extremely bad, and she's only been on kibble since about 5 weeks old. Roxy needs it so much more than Lily though. Roxy loses weigh easily, and she practically looks like we starve her.. and her teeth, omg :eek:.

[bckrazy]

For Lily, I would recommend about 5% of her body weight, because she is still young. You want to decrease the amount based on her body weight/shape, and her age. 5% of 4.5 lbs equates to about .15-.2 lbs of raw per day. That is pennies a day!! Consider that, if you'll be feeding mostly chicken wings/leg quarters, those RMB's cost $0.50/lb on average... you can find it for more or for less depending on the butcher you go to. Some butchers will give away a huge (10 lb) bag of chicken pieces for a dollar or two.

Now, I'm guessing that Roxy weighs 30-40? lbs. She will need at least 3% of her body weight, preferably 5% since it sounds like she needs to pack on a few pounds. She should do well on 1.5 lbs per day, until her weight is ideal.

The cheapest RMB's that I get are whole chickens that I divide on my own (VERY cheap at our butcher, equates to about $.25/lb) OR a 10 lb bag of chicken leg quarters for $3 OR a little less than 10 lb bag of chicken wings for $3. A whole turkey and turkey wings/legs are just a bit more expensive, but bigger. A 5 lb package of beef ribs costs $2, lamb ribs of the same weight are just a bit more. Beef femur costs almost nothing, and can be split into 1/3 or 1/4 by the butcher, so that will provide 4 recreational chewing bones to clean teeth. Lamb shanks are also very cheap, as are pork bones/cuts.

I also feel that veggies help with a well-rounded diet. I spend about $2/month on each kind of veggie, and I use about 5 basic veggies which means $10 per month with that. If you just want to use a couple veggies, you can get them for cheaper. I buy a bag of Tomatoes, cuccumbers, broccolli, spinache, & carrots; puree them all together at home; then seperate the "veggie mush" into a about 10 sandwich bags, which means each dog will get 5 servings a month. It serves as a meal in itself. I give this once or twice a week, and mix in flax seed oil & a crushed multi-vitamin. Additives such as multi-vitamins, fish/salmon oil, flax seed, etc, is up to you. I also give them a few raw or hard-boiled eggs per week (including the shell), a few meals of oatmeal & honey per month, and a few meals of goats milk per month. I basically follow Dr. Ian Billinghurts RMB plan ;0) I reccomend the book "Give Your Dog A Bone"... you can actually borrow mine if you want. It has a lot of good, common sense information!

Also, the benefits of feeding raw are HUGE! And it is not rocket science, although plenty of research should be done before jumping into it. I keep ALL of my dogs' raw meals in one shelf in our freezer! And I even buy in bulk! It not only has a way of maintaining a perfect weight (which goes totally back & fourth with kibble, I know), it cleans teeth, produces poops that are firm, do not smell and actually crumble up in a couple days, promotes great coat, balanced energy (unlike the hyper, carb-driven energy from kibble), and will save you a LOT of money in the future. By the sound of your dogs' teeth, they will need professional teeth cleaning yearly, or they'll end up needing teeth pulled. This costs $100-200 per cleaning/pulling! It also sounds like the kibble that you feed Roxy is going right through her, which means she really does need a higher quality food or perhaps that she has an allergy, and raw will improve that.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I'm not exactly sure on Roxy's weight at the moment, but that sounds about right. I don't know if we have a butcher though.. o_O. We used to get our meat from the Grocery store (until I went Vegetarian).. Would they give us meat, maybe? I have a $10 budget a month for myself, and I say we normally spend.. $30 on Roxy's food, and since Lily eats hardly anything she gets a new jug of food for $10 about every 6 months. So, it does sound like this would be cheaper.. if only we had the freezer space.. Maybe I could start Roxy on just the bones and feed Lily the meat. I'd love to borrow the book if you don't mind lending it to me!

Yeah, her teeth are pretty bad, and Lily's are just getting started.. I feel like a horrible mom, but I've done everything under my control to try to get her on a better food, but my mom keeps insisting no.

[bckrazy]

Here are price estimations for feeding both of your dogs raw, based on RMB's that are less than $1 per lb. I have no clue what Roxy weighs, I'm guessing 30-40 lbs?

Feeding Lily for 30 days = 6 lbs = $4 per month

Feeding Roxy for 30 days = 30-45 lbs = $26 per month

So, that is $30 per month, and $360 per year, for a RMB diet. You can easily make $30 per month babysitting or whatever! =) And, it depends heavily on how much of a bargain hunter you are. That $30 could be cut in half, depending on your own local butchers and the deals you find.

[bckrazy]

Ok, just PM or e-mail me your address ;) my e-mail is [email protected]

Have you tried brushing their teeth? Doggy toothpaste doesn't cost much at all, and just use an old toothbrush or buy 2 childrens brushes. It can help a lot if done daily. However, to get rid of the existing plaque, they either need a pricey cleaning from the vet (where they are put under anesthesia) or RMB's. Lily needs to get the meat and the bones, feeding her all muscle meat is not balanced & will not do much for her teeth. She is a small dog and as long as she chews well, she'd do fine with chicken & turkey bones.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Here are price estimations for feeding both of your dogs raw, based on RMB's that are less than $1 per lb. I have no clue what Roxy weighs, I'm guessing 30-40 lbs?

Feeding Lily for 30 days = 6 lbs = $4 per month

Feeding Roxy for 30 days = 30-45 lbs = $26 per month

So, that is $30 per month, and $360 per year, for a RMB diet. You can easily make $30 per month babysitting or whatever! =) And, it depends heavily on how much of a bargain hunter you are. That $30 could be cut in half, depending on your own local butchers and the deals you find.
Wow, I just asked my mom and she said on Roxy's food alone we spend $40 a month. :eek: Now I just need to get a job or something, hehe. Do you have any idea of what kind of weekly schedule type thing I could do for them? Like.. a meal chart or something. I'm still a little bit clueless on WHAT exactly I'd feed them :p.

ETA: I could start brushing their teeth.. I'll have that PM in just a sec..I really need to do something.. Roxy's teeth will be gone by the time she's 6 if I don't start doing something.

[bckrazy]

HM... check out the thread in Dog Health, What Did Your Dogs Eat Today?. It can give you an idea if you look through all of Sarah's posts in a week (she posts the most in that thread :p). My schedule for Gonzo is usually something like (for a 40 lb active dog)...

Monday: 2 Chicken wings for breakfast, .3 lb beef brisket meat for dinner
Tuesday: Lamb shank for breakfast, beef rib for dinner
Wednsday: Chicken leg quarter for breakfast, veggie mush for dinner
Thursday: 2 Chicken wings for breakfast, chicken leg quarter for dinner
ETC!

They get supplements almost every day, but that is up to you. I occasionally give them some yogurt, milk, cottage cheese, etc. I almost never give starchy biscuits & such, except one cookie before they go to bed. I use tiny bits of cheese, cooked chicken, liver, and pieces of carrot for training treats. The book explains basically everything you would want to know... and more! hehe. Grocery store meat is fine, as long as it isn't over-priced! A common rule of thumb is, for your main meats, don't ever pay more than $1/lb. I occasionally pay a bit more for special treats, like rabbit. His Farmore raw costs $2/lb, but that includes veggies and supps in it, and I feed it much less often. If your grocery store has no good deals, check out a different grocery store (Costco can be a God-send sometimes) or local butchers.

I recommend, next time you got to the store, ask the butcher for a beef femur bone cut in 1/4ths or a pack of soup bones (really, really cheap). Give it to Roxy to chew on, and watch her. Just rec bones regularly will help a lot, and prove to your Mom that it will improve her teeth.

[buttercup132]

This seems so much cheaper and healither. My parents feed my two UGH pedigree:rolleyes: :mad: I told my mom about raw food and she seems interested!!:D I feed them veggies some times but have to mix in cheese cause they dont like veggies lol

[Roxyluvsme13]

Okay! I'm going to have to know my math for this, aren't I? ;) I'm going to wait till I get the book from you and read on it a little more before I actually start trying to take some action. I just talked to my mom a few minutes ago about this, and she seemed interested. She asked me what kind of meat, mentioned Hamburger is so expensive. Told her you don't feed hamburger, then she mentioned about the bones, and the splitting of them. Told her when it's raw you can feed them. At least she *seems* interested. I know she would love to save on dog food. I'm reading some stuff from http://rawlearning.com and I plan to do some more research. Will be anxiously waiting for the book, and thank you so much for all the help!

Btw, we don't have a Costco... I've actually never heard of them. We have Food Lion, Krogers, Food City, and White's. I really am interested in switching them, and hope to convince my mom that it's better for them, too.

[cyber-sibes]

Ths is very timely! I bought two whole chickens yesterday, and cut them up myself. I split the chicken back between my two dogs, just to see how they'd like it. not many minutes later, they were completly gone.

Will a meat & bone diet help for a dog that has plaque? Our new vet suggested I bring Star in for a cleaning - he said she has a broken molar that is building up tarter. The catch is that she would have to go under anesthesia, and because of her age (9), she'd need pre-test blood work, and it's more risky for an older dog. (I can see the $$$$ adding up, too!) i don't want to put her through that unless absolutely necessary. And if they put her under, they may as well pull the tooth rather than have to do this every year.
So I'm wondering if the raw diet would help reduce her plaque problem?

[animal_rescue]

Ths is very timely! I bought two whole chickens yesterday, and cut them up myself. I split the chicken back between my two dogs, just to see how they'd like it. not many minutes later, they were completly gone.

Will a meat & bone diet help for a dog that has plaque? Our new vet suggested I bring Star in for a cleaning - he said she has a broken molar that is building up tarter. The catch is that she would have to go under anesthesia, and because of her age (9), she'd need pre-test blood work, and it's more risky for an older dog. (I can see the $$$$ adding up, too!) i don't want to put her through that unless absolutely necessary. And if they put her under, they may as well pull the tooth rather than have to do this every year.
So I'm wondering if the raw diet would help reduce her plaque problem?


Yes! It was definitely help, they'll have very healthy teeth on a raw diet.

[Roxyluvsme13]

On a Raw Diet, do your dogs even need to be vaccinated?

[bckrazy]

Gonzo, before I started him on 100% raw, was given a Greenie almost every day... which is $20+ a month, JUST for Greenies! :p His teeth still had light plaque, especially the molars where his kibble stuck to after eating. Now, I spend the same amount as I did on Greenies for his WHOLE monthly meal, and he has zero plaque with raw. Like, not a trace of it, and his teeth are very white and not worn at all. He's almost 5, too ^_^

Ok, so I guess the answer is yes, raw bones do help immensely with cleaning teeth. I find that chicken bones help a lot, but because they are smaller and easy to bend and break into small pieces, they aren't as efficient with cleaning teeth. Beef femur & soup bones literally scrub away plaque! However, you have to keep a close eye with these because they are so hard and an overly-vigorous chewer can chip a tooth.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Okay, so do veggies need to be included, too?
Calculations, I say Roxy may weigh about 45.
I read you need to feed 2% of the dogs body weight, from a site from the guy that invented BARF. This is including veggies.
Roxy
14.4 ounces of food
8.64 ounces of RMB
5.76 ounces Vegetable Patty Mix

Lily
1.44 ounces of food
0.864 ounces RMB
0.576 ounces of Vegetable Patty Mix

Source - http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm
Ok, but really do I have to add veggies, too, or can I feed mostly meat, and Veggies occasionally?

[wolfsoul]

On a Raw Diet, do your dogs even need to be vaccinated?
Even on kibble, dogs don't really need to be vaccinated -- atleast not every year or every three years. But, with raw, a dog will have a higher immune system, so the chances of them getting anything are less.

You don't need to feed veggies at all. :) I don't feed alot of fruit/veggie, myself, I only do to add more vitamins and nutrients (and alot of fruits or veggies are beneficial in other ways, like cranberries prevent UTIs and reduce plaque, etc). In the wild, dogs don't eat veggies. The stomach contents are bitter and so they are shaken out (they are sometimes ingested when the smaller animals are eaten as the stomach is small enough to eat whole). Wolves are only seen eating berries when other food sources are low. So in general, all that is eaten is meat, organs, and about 10% bone.

[IRescue452]

There are quite a few people that are anti-veggie for dogs. The barf diet includes a veggies and the raw usually doesn't. Both are very good diets. If you can't include veggies it will still be ok.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Even on kibble, dogs don't really need to be vaccinated -- atleast not every year or every three years. But, with raw, a dog will have a higher immune system, so the chances of them getting anything are less.

You don't need to feed veggies at all. :) I don't feed alot of fruit/veggie, myself, I only do to add more vitamins and nutrients (and alot of fruits or veggies are beneficial in other ways, like cranberries prevent UTIs and reduce plaque, etc). In the wild, dogs don't eat veggies. The stomach contents are bitter and so they are shaken out (they are sometimes ingested when the smaller animals are eaten as the stomach is small enough to eat whole). Wolves are only seen eating berries when other food sources are low. So in general, all that is eaten is meat, organs, and about 10% bone.
Okay. Roxy only gets her Rabies Vaccine because it's required, and Lily's only getting shots, because my mom wants her to?
Okay, so that means I can feed them the 14.4 and the 1.44 ounces of meat like the site said. The site said to feed Veggies, but I'd rather prefer not to. We don't have a blender or anything, and I'm sure they'd enjoy the meat much better.
Ah, BARF and Raw are 2 different things >__<. I like Raw better ^^

[bckrazy]

I would feed Roxy over 1 lb daily, because she does need to put on extra weight. ;0) Other than that, it sounds good. I agree with Jordan, they reallly don't need that much veggies in their diet. It's good to get a veggie meal once or week or so, but not as 1/3 of their intake.

I feed 60% RMB, 30% muscle meat & organs, and 10% fruits, veggies, supps, dairy, etc.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I would feed Roxy over 1 lb daily, because she does need to put on extra weight. ;0) Other than that, it sounds good. I agree with Jordan, they reallly don't need that much veggies in their diet. It's good to get a veggie meal once or week or so, but not as 1/3 of their intake.

I feed 60% RMB, 30% muscle meat & organs, and 10% fruits, veggies, supps, dairy, etc.
So maybe 1.25 pounds for Roxy? and... however much of a pound that is for Lily? (how much is that anyways?) I found out we do have a butcher in town... When I finally do decide to make the switch, what should I ask for when I go in there? I read to keep it steady and don't make a huge variety for the first week. What would be some good things to feed? Necks, legs, carcasses, what animals?
(sorry for so many questions! I just want to get this right before I attempt it..)

[WarahGirl1995]

i wouldnt feed my dogs raw i dont know why i dont think it provides enough nutrition and it is very expensive and takes up lots of space.

[Roxyluvsme13]

i wouldnt feed my dogs raw i dont know why i dont think it provides enough nutrition and it is very expensive and takes up lots of space.
That's not true at all. It provides tons more nutrition than kibble. It's much healthier for the dog, and my mom spends $40 alone a month on Roxy's dog food at least, when I can feed her and Lily for cheaper than that. It doesn't necessarily take up alot of space from what I've read from the people ^ above. So, none of that is true. :)

[binka_nugget]

i wouldnt feed my dogs raw i dont know why i dont think it provides enough nutrition and it is very expensive and takes up lots of space.

My dogs have shinier coats than they have ever had. My 7/8 year old stopped limping and started acting like a 2 year old. While on kibble, there wasn't one single month that they weren't taken to the vet. Since we've switched to raw, we've gone to the vet once.. and that was only for a routine checkup. Dental cleanings are gone. Kai's allergies are gone. I've saved hundreds of dollars from just not going to the vet as often anymore. They're eating about the same amount of food but their stools are much, much smaller.. because their body is digesting more of the food. I could go on and on about the changes I've seen.

It can take up as much space as you want it to take up. I prefer to use more space to save more money. I used to buy a weeks worth of a food at a time and it barely took up any space.

[Jadapit]

I find this very interesting and educational. You girls are so knowledgeable about feeding raw! My hubby and I have been talking about switching our dogs over to raw, it really does make a lost of sense to feed them raw. I'm not real sure how to start them on it. Would it be ok to add some raw meat with their kibble at first? What raw meat would be best to start them out on? I was thinking about buying them each a turkey leg to see how they liked it. Thank you so much for all the info you have posted it is very helpful.

[BC_MoM]

So let's say you're feeding 60% meat, 30% organs, 10% veggies..

If you cut out the veggies, what would you put in it's place? Another 10% of organs?

[Kfamr]

Donna,

Some people have had troubles with feeding raw & kibble at the same time because they digest differently. Personally, I have not so far and know many people who have no issue with it.

I feed kibble (TimberWolf Organics) in the morning and raw/barf for dinner.
My three's first meal was a trout filet & pureed carrots/tomatoes/bananas. So far they've only had that and chicken. From serveral sources, I've been told chicken is the best to start with. I'd assume turkey would be about the same. :confused:

Another thing I've learned... Your dogs will probably act like they're starving afterwards. If you think they've gotten enought to eat (like mine did their first raw meal) you may want to add some sort of veggie as a filler, and slowly take it away.

I've yet to give them any bones. Tomorrow will be their first raw bones. They will be having chicken legs with tomato/carrot puree.



Roxyluvsme, if you do end up feeding any veggies/fruits, make sure you puree them. They aren't beneficial if given whole.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I wasn't really going to feed many Veggies, since I don't have a blender.. I was wondering with Jess if you dont feed the 10% veggies, do you add more organs?

[wolfsoul]

I wouldn't use a 60/40 meat/organ ratio, myself...Organs are very high in certain things...Liver is high in Vitamin A and can cause Vitamin A toxitity, heart (which is a muscle technically, but anyways) is high in copper and can cause copper poisoning, etc. I would feed more meat or add an RMB to the meal. :)

[finn's mom]

I wasn't really going to feed many Veggies, since I don't have a blender..

You don't really have to blend them. At least I never have for Finn. I just toss him fruits and veggies whenever I eat them. :) Which is constantly. If I eat a handful of carrots, he gets one...if I eat anything, he gets a piece. ;)

[binka_nugget]

Ditto what Jordan said. I'd probably add RMBs or meat instead of more organs.

[.sarah]

I feed prey-model raw, which is as close to wild as you can get. BARF is totally different. It involves grinding, veggies, and lots of supplements. It is usually modeled after Dr. Ian Billinghurst's advice (I DO NOT reccomend his books, there are much better books out there with more accurate information for someone looking to feed prey-model. His reccomendations are all wrong in my opinion. :o )

Prey-model is so, so easy. Think about what a wolf eats in the wild. They eat whole prey, or nearly whole prey when shared with their pack. They eat the meat, bones, and organs, and shake out the stomach contents (this means minimal or no veggies). They are scavengers and do occassionally eat fruits and berries but unless if it is pureed or pupled (like stomach contents) they don't get any nutrition from it. Their teeth cannot grind grains or break open the cell walls of veggies where all the nutritious cellulose is.

Supplements are pointless in my opinion unless if you are addressing a specific problem. Nova is fed five fish oil pills a day to help with her allergies and joints. Mandy gets two a day for her joints, and Buck and Luka get one as a treat. Dairy is a waste of time and money in my opinion, since dogs are lactose intolerant after 16 weeks of age.

Boney foods should be avoided unless if they are fed with a cut of boneless meat or are still attatched to a larger part of the animal. For example, I would never reccomend chicken wings, necks, or backs on their own, they are too boney. Wings and necks also tend to be easy to choke on for larger dogs. If they are still attatched to the bird they are great, but otherwise I would skip them and spend your money on better cuts.

Watching for sales will make raw even cheaper. If chicken quarters are on sale and you can stock up, then feed chicken quarters for a while. Balance over time is key, so if you feed chicken quarters for two weeks and then feed another meat on sale for two weeks, and then another meat, you will be fine. Dogs don't need day-to-day balance, they need balance over time.

Organs should be about 10% of the diet with liver being 50% of that (5% of the total diet). The percentages for feeding raw are I think what turn a lot of people off. Just guess. Feed a chicken liver a week or cut up another source of liver into chicken liver sizes. Feed less liver if your dog is having loose stool. Feed a variety of different animal livers and other organs if possible.

Feed anything you can get your hands on. Animal protein is animal protein, it is all useful for dogs! Only things I would avoid are bare-nekkid bones (bones with minimal or no meat), and bones from a weight-bearing animal such as cows, buffalo, moose, etc. You have to be careful with these bones, they are so dense and can break or chip teeth. I would avoid beef ribs totally, they are not usually covered in much meat.




For "menus" ... let's see, how about I list everything I feed that I can remember.

Beef brisket - They had some of this yesterday. It was $.93/lb and a one-pound piece took them a while to eat. It is boneless but sort of tough. They loved it!

Beef tongue - Tongue is very rich and can cause the runs if fed in large portions. I feed about 1/4 lb at a time and always feed it with a RMB, never boneless meat, to cut out on the chance of loose stools.

Boneless pork - I normally don't buy boneless but this was on sale at a great price!

Pork ribs - These are always the cheapest ribs and are usually very meaty. The dogs love 'em!

Pork roasts - This is what they had today. They were 8 lb suckers with lots, and I mean LOTS, of meat on them. It comes with skin on.

Pig ears - Mostly use these as treats to keep them busy.

Pig feet and pork necks - These are generally cheap but are very boney so I keep them on hand in case somebody has loose stool. Or I will feed these with organs to off-set the boney-ness (organs are very rich).

Boneless buffalo - Isn't fed often because it is so dern expensive. I have a bunch of coupons though and so I get some each time I go to the grocery store.

Turkey legs - These tend to be very large and meaty. The ones I get at the grocery store are about 1 lb each. The ones I get at the butcher are 2-2.5 lbs each.

Whole chickens - I usually buy whole fryer chickens and cut them in halves or quarters. I split the organs up between the dogs when I feed them.

Chicken quarters - I buy these if they are on sale cheaper than whole chickens (remember whole prey is always better).

Rabbit - I am talking to a supplier right now and will start getting almost all of my meat from her. She sells whole rabbits, with everything intact, unless if I request them otherwise.

Lamb shanks - These go on sale every now and then at Publix and I always stock up since they are usually very expensive. I have about 15 shanks out in my freezer right now. Lamb seems to be Buck's favorite.

Fish - I buy trout the most often because it is cheapest. Salmon is occassional. I tried Tilapia the other day. The Labs loved it but Mandy didn't care for it which is odd for her, because fish is her favorite. My dad catches a lot of snapper and mullet and he will give me whatever he doesn't use.

Organs and muscle meat - Beef liver, beef kidney, beef heart, chicken liver, chicken gizzards, chicken hearts, pork liver, pork kidney, pork fries, all rabbit organs, turkey organs and some others, probably.


I feed more than this, but am having a brain fart :o




I can't say enough how much the Yahoo! group rawfeeding (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/) has been of help to me. They were my lifeline when I first switched the dogs. The knowledge that people there have is really invaluable. Join it!!!

[.sarah]

You don't really have to blend them. At least I never have for Finn. I just toss him fruits and veggies whenever I eat them. :) Which is constantly. If I eat a handful of carrots, he gets one...if I eat anything, he gets a piece. ;)
Since dogs don't have teeth that will break open the cell walls where all of the nutrients are, feeding veggies whole doesn't do much for nutritional benefits. My mom gives them as treats sometimes (makes her feel better lol). No harm, but doesn't do much benefit either.

[bckrazy]

Sarah... I understand that Dr. Billinghurst has recently started advocating grinding. I'm talking about his book from several years ago, Give Your Dog A Bone. There is nothing wierd about the book - not even mention of grinding. Just info about raw meaty bones, how much to feed, how often, etc. What is in this book is basically the same as your info in that post, and basically what you feed. =P I do think the new grinding thing is dumb, for sure.

[.sarah]

Sarah... I understand that Dr. Billinghurst has recently started advocating grinding. I'm talking about his book from several years ago, Give Your Dog A Bone. There is nothing wierd about the book - not even mention of grinding. Just info about raw meaty bones, how much to feed, how often, etc. What is in this book is basically the same as your info in that post, and basically what you feed. =P I do think the new grinding thing is dumb, for sure.
Oh, really? I though Give Your Dog A Bone was one of the new ones :o Sorry!

I really, really reccomend Tom Lonsdale's books if you want books to read. Though I don't think they're really needed with that Yahoo! group, to be honest. That group knows just as much as the book writers and they are there to answer wierd and stupid questions ;)

[IRescue452]

Autumn has never had a carrot come out whole, so something breaks them down. I think whole carrots are good for their teeth too. Either way, its a healthy treat, much better than giving fattening treats all the time.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Thanks for all the helpful info! Lily and Roxy occasionally get fruits and veggies, and yogurt for little treats anyways. They love things like Beggin Strips, but I'm sure they'd like other things better...
Okay I have a few more questions...
What would be something good to start them out on?
How often should they get organs?
If I use Veggies, how much a week?
How many meals should I split into one day?
I think that's it.. If I think of anything else I'll come back and edit.
Thought of somthing else.. My dogs are both normally active, especially on walks. Could that change the price of feeding them Raw..?

[IRescue452]

Sorry I'm off the questions a bit, but how much do you normally pay for soup bones? Autumn gets smoked femur bones occasionally without chipping her teeth so I decided to try a soup bone today. It was 99 cents a pound and 2.29 altogether. Not extremely cheap if you ask me but the local meat market is kinda expensive to begin with. They are more of a showy catering place with some retail on the side.

[.sarah]

What would be something good to start them out on?
Chicken works well. It's cheap and bland and rarely causes a problem for dogs.

How often should they get organs?
It doesn't matter, really. If you want to feed them once a week that is fine, every day is also fine, and so is once every few weeks. Only thing I wouldn't reccomend is an all-organ meal, because that tends to cause the runs. And if you decide to feed them every day (which is a pain, I wouldn't reccomend trying that) then make sure you aren't giving too many organs. I think it's easier to feed them once or twice a week.

If I use Veggies, how much a week?
It shouldn't take over the diet. A tablespoon a day max, so about 7 tablespoons a week. What is that, a cup a week?

How many meals should I split into one day?
One meal a day is fine. You can feed two meals if that makes you feel better, but generally it is hard to get everything portion sized when you feed two meals.

My dogs are both normally active, especially on walks. Could that change the price of feeding them Raw..?
It will mean you need to feed more to keep weight on. Those percentages are meant for adult dogs with a moderate activity level. You may need to adjust their feeding portions but I can't imagine it being drastically different from the reccomend amounts. My dogs are all active but the girls eat way less than what is reccomended. The percentage says they need 1.5 lbs a day, and they eat .75 lbs a day. So maybe it will be cheaper than you are expecting ;) Buck is right on target for what they reccomend, but he is also still growing.

[Roxyluvsme13]

What would be something good to start them out on?
Chicken works well. It's cheap and bland and rarely causes a problem for dogs.

How often should they get organs?
It doesn't matter, really. If you want to feed them once a week that is fine, every day is also fine, and so is once every few weeks. Only thing I wouldn't reccomend is an all-organ meal, because that tends to cause the runs. And if you decide to feed them every day (which is a pain, I wouldn't reccomend trying that) then make sure you aren't giving too many organs. I think it's easier to feed them once or twice a week.

If I use Veggies, how much a week?
It shouldn't take over the diet. A tablespoon a day max, so about 7 tablespoons a week. What is that, a cup a week?

How many meals should I split into one day?
One meal a day is fine. You can feed two meals if that makes you feel better, but generally it is hard to get everything portion sized when you feed two meals.

Okay, so.. if I fed them both about midday (3-ish?) I could give them some meat and a cup full of veggies, and maybe one day adding an organ in there and reducing the meat a bit? Chicken sounds okay, I'll have to check out our local butcher. I'm so afraid that I'm going to measure wrong or something and they're not going to have enough to eat..

Okay. They're lazy somedays, and active somedays, depends on their mood. Roxy I suppose needs about 1.25-1.5 pounds, and Lily .25?


I forgot to add, What kind of Vegetables would you feed?

[Kfamr]

They may be able to digest the carrots/fruits/veggies, but not in a way to benefit them.

The cell walls of plants fruits/veggies are made of cellulose, dogs cannot digest cellulose, thusare unable to get to the nutrients in the fruits/veggies.

[Kfamr]

I forgot to add, What kind of Vegetables would you feed?



Here are a few I've found that are okay for dogs (pureed.)

Romaine Lettuce - No iceberg as it has no nutritional value
Parsley (small amounts)
Carrots
Pumpkin
Spinach
Silver beet
Tomatoes
Red, green, yellow capsicum peppers
Cabbage
broccoli
cauliflower
apples
bananas
whole oranges
papayas
mangoes
kiwi
cantaloupe
raspberries
garlic

[Roxyluvsme13]

Here are a few I've found that are okay for dogs (pureed.)

Romaine Lettuce - No iceberg as it has no nutritional value
Parsley (small amounts)
Carrots
Pumpkin
Spinach
Silver beet
Tomatoes
Red, green, yellow capsicum peppers
Cabbage
broccoli
cauliflower
apples
whole oranges
papayas
mangoes
kiwi
cantaloupe
garlic

Now I need a blender..
Actually, Couldn't I use Cottage Cheese, Cheese, and Yogurt?

[Kfamr]

Yes, you do! :)

I prefer using our food processor VS. blender - it seems to puree the veggies a lot better. I also add a bit of water/milk if it's having trouble mixing it.

I'm weird but I have fun mixing up weird veggie/fruit combos. :p

*edit* Just saw the question. Do you mean to add to the veggie puree mixture? If so, yes. Cottage Cheese & plain yogurt are good, too. However, I'm not sure how much/what types of cheese are good for them.

[.sarah]

Okay, so.. if I fed them both about midday (3-ish?) I could give them some meat and a cup full of veggies, and maybe one day adding an organ in there and reducing the meat a bit?
Sounds good, though I don't see reason to reduce the RMBs when you feed veggies and/or organs. You can also mix in the weeks worth of organs into the veggie mush for convenience.

I'm so afraid that I'm going to measure wrong or something and they're not going to have enough to eat..
Don't! If they look thin, increase their food, if they look overweight, decrease their food. It's really very simple ;)

Okay. They're lazy somedays, and active somedays, depends on their mood. Roxy I suppose needs about 1.25-1.5 pounds, and Lily .25?
If I remember correctly Roxy needs to gain weight and Lily is still growing, right? I would feed Roxy 4% of her body weight and Lily 3%. Then adjust as neccessary. If they are more active or sedentary on certain days then you would adjust their food accordingly :)

[Roxyluvsme13]

I just did some calculations..
Roxy would need 28.8 Ounces, and Lily would need 2.16 ounces. Does that sound about right?

[.sarah]

How much do they weigh?

[Roxyluvsme13]

Roxy weighs about 45, and Lily weighs 4.5.
(pounds)

[cali]

just so correct something that was mentioned ion the first page, RAW and BARF are NOT differnt things. BARF is a type of RAW. I met Dr. Ian BillingHurst about 5 years ago, when I first started feeding RAW, the only grinding involved was veggies which were only a small part of the diet, all meat and bones and organs were given whole, there were no supplements involved. however since then he has started marketing his BARF products, and he has changed things around, adding a million supplements and lots of grinding, my bet is it has to do with money more then anything else, as he now has a whole line of "BARF" products. originaly all RAW diets were refered to as "BARF" because it stands for "Bones and Raw Foods" as well as "Biologicly Appropriate Raw Foods" but since Billinghurst has done a marketing flip the term has really fallen out of favor and is only used to refere to his new style of RAW.

[IRescue452]

quote: "originaly all RAW diets were refered to as "BARF" because it stands for "Bones and Raw Foods" as well as "Biologicly Appropriate Raw Foods" but since Billinghurst has done a marketing flip the term has really fallen out of favor and is only used to refere to his new style of RAW."


That's alright, I'd prefer not to tell people I feed my dogs barf anyway.

[Roxyluvsme13]

quote: "originaly all RAW diets were refered to as "BARF" because it stands for "Bones and Raw Foods" as well as "Biologicly Appropriate Raw Foods" but since Billinghurst has done a marketing flip the term has really fallen out of favor and is only used to refere to his new style of RAW."


That's alright, I'd prefer not to tell people I feed my dogs barf anyway.
I agree, I thought it was a bit weird to call it BARF, so I'll just stick to calling it Raw :p

[dogzr#1]

Sorry to butt in... but I've been reading all the replies because I hope to convince my parents into feeding raw. I'm planning on making a PowerPoint with all the information that I've gathered, including prices etc. Ok I have one question: "For very fast eaters (like ones who gulp down food withought chewing it), would boneless chicken be okay for them?"

[Kfamr]

"For very fast eaters (like ones who gulp down food withought chewing it), would boneless chicken be okay for them?"


Yes, boneless is fine. But they will need some souce of calcium.

You'd be surprised, though. My three are major gulpers! Kiki is the worst. Today they got their first chicken leg, bones and all. Kiara took the longest to chew it!

Also, I fed it FROZEN as an extra percaution. If it's frozen and big enough to where they can't swallow - they HAVE to chew!

[Roxyluvsme13]

Sorry to butt in... but I've been reading all the replies because I hope to convince my parents into feeding raw. I'm planning on making a PowerPoint with all the information that I've gathered, including prices etc. Ok I have one question: "For very fast eaters (like ones who gulp down food withought chewing it), would boneless chicken be okay for them?"
I think I read (correct me if I'm wrong) If you have a "gulper" feed them large amounts and make them chew? (something along those lines, don't remember word for word) Sorry, dont know about the boneless or not, but I read something about that.

[dogzr#1]

Okay, thank you! Who knows? Maybe Molly will take more than 10 seconds to eat her food!

[Kfamr]

Okay, thank you! Who knows? Maybe Molly will take more than 10 seconds to eat her food!



You may want to try it out! I'd start with a raw frozen chicken filet. For me, I was paranoid so I started them on raw fish. Nala swallowed it whole, Simba chewed it, and Kiara put it in her mouth, spit it out, a billion times and then finally ate it!

[dogzr#1]

I don't know how Astra is going to react if we do give it a try. She is really picky as it is, so I hope she'll like this food. I'm mostly worried about Prince and Molly. They eat like it's their last meal on earth!

[wolfsoul]

Now I need a blender..
Actually, Couldn't I use Cottage Cheese, Cheese, and Yogurt?
Yes! :) Visa LOVES her cottage cheese and yogurt. All dogs are able to adjust their bodies to cope with lactose over time (as dog milk contains lactose sulfate, and so dogs are born with the ability to digest lactose -- only about half of dogs lose it, but can gain it back with time). Uncreamed or dry cottage cheese is best to start out with. It's low lactose and high in beneficial bacteria that promote digestion and healthy intestines. Yogurt is good bacteria-wise too, and can help put on weight (depending on what kind you buy). I buy the Balkan style, 6% fat yogurt for keeping weight on Visa. Both cottage cheese and yogurt help if the dog is gassy.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Yes! :) Visa LOVES her cottage cheese and yogurt. All dogs are able to adjust their bodies to cope with lactose over time (as dog milk contains lactose sulfate, and so dogs are born with the ability to digest lactose -- only about half of dogs lose it, but can gain it back with time). Uncreamed or dry cottage cheese is best to start out with. It's low lactose and high in beneficial bacteria that promote digestion and healthy intestines. Yogurt is good bacteria-wise too, and can help put on weight (depending on what kind you buy). I buy the Balkan style, 6% fat yogurt for keeping weight on Visa. Both cottage cheese and yogurt help if the dog is gassy.
Ah, okay. I don't think either of them are Lactose Intolerant, since they've done fine eating yogurt before. Could I add some Cottage Cheese or Yogurt in with the meat somedays instead of Veggies?

[wolfsoul]

Yep, if you decide not to feed veggies everyday but have a substitute other than meat or organs, cottage cheese or yogurt is fine. :)

[Roxyluvsme13]

Now all I've left to do is wait on Erica's book, read it, and convince my mom Raw is better for the dogs, and get a blender.

[bckrazy]

Ok, I'll help answer these questions too. Even though they've already been taken care of ;)

What would be something good to start them out on? Definitely, chicken or turkey. Cheap, easy to find, easy to eat (especially for your little Lily), & not at all likely to cause a stomache upset.
How often should they get organs? I feed organs twice a week, Gonzo gets his with some muscle meat.
I use Veggies, how much a week? Like I said, I feed no more than 10% of their weekly intake. They usually get one or two small veggie puree meals per week.
How many meals should I split into one day? It depends... if you're feeding half or whole chicken or one large cut, I feed one meal. If it's something smaller, like one rib, or one or two wings, Gonzo gets 2 meals. If he's getting a half of a chicken or rabbit, which is a big meal in the morning, I will feed him veggie puree for dinner or goats milk & an egg or something.
I think that's it.. If I think of anything else I'll come back and edit.
Thought of somthing else.. My dogs are both normally active, especially on walks. Could that change the price of feeding them Raw..? Gonzo gets 1-3 hours of intense running exercise (like, racing back and fourth across a field or our 1 acre yard) plus dog sports for 4 hours per week, not even counting 2 long walks a day. He is very active, but his metabolism adjusts well and he doesn't require a lot of calories at all. He gets less than 1 lb a day, at 40 lbs, and being extremely active. I do think it depends on the dog... just watch their weight!

About dairy, I think yogurt, cottage cheese, goat milk, goat cheese, eggs, etc, provide a great source of probiotics. No, it isn't exactly "natural" but neither are supplements or pureed veggies :p It is proven to be very nutritional when fed occasionally.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Ok, thanks ^^ I remembered something else, too.
If you feed eggs, do you boil them, just give them to the dog, shell on, or off?

[Kfamr]

Eggs are given completely raw - shell and all. A lot of people like to crush the shell very finely for their dogs.

[wolfsoul]

I give eggs raw. I only give her the shell if she didn't get any bone that day.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Okay! :D Thank you so much again for the help everyone! If you have anything extra I should know, Please post!

[lv4dogs]

i put the egg, shell & all in the blender.
Once a week or so I will only give them the egg, yolk & white, with no shell, usually because I am lazy & don't want to get the blender out. lol

[Roxyluvsme13]

We got a carton of 18 eggs today, and I plan to sneak one to the dogs. I also looked at the meat prices and discussed feeding Raw more with my mom.

A whole chicken was $2.37.
Beef ranged from $5 +
Turkey I didn't see much of, so I didn't look at the price.
Chicken leg quarters, (I guess a 10 pack) $7.80
So...my mom said that was too expensive. I told her butchers were cheaper.
On the way home..
Me: If you feed Raw it's much healthier.
Mom: I don't get how it's much healthier, why's it better?
Me: Kibble has all sorts of crap in it, and feeding Raw is what dogs were raised from.
Mom: What about Salmonella, E-Coli?
Me: There's been more cases of that in kibble..
Mom: *surprised look*
Haha, I think I'm convincing her! I'm going to ask if I can give the dogs a raw egg each and see if they like it.
Are the prices for the meat high? I thought they were.

[.sarah]

LOL! About the price, tell her that if you spend more on the diet, you'll be saving more in vet bills from diseases that could be onset by poor diet ;) That's what I tell people when they say it's too expensive, then they're pretty much speechless. Or they bring up "but it takes too much time" and I say, "but you're spending more time preparing meals instead of at the vet because your dog is sick". And really, once you get in the swing of things and create a routine, it doesn't take up that much time. :)

By the way, the chicken prices sound good, especially for the quarters. It was probably a 10lb bag, in which case it was $.78/lb, very cheap! (Actually sometimes chicken quarters can be as cheap as $.29/lb!!) Beef is generally expensive, so I feed mostly beef heart (usually $.70/lb here) and beef brisket ($.93/lb). All other beef cuts have been way too expensive.

[cali]

also if you tell butchers what you are getting it for I found many that supply bones for raw feeders for dicounted prices, as the stuff you often want is considered "scraps" that most people dont eat anyway. also check out butchers that hunters go too, we have a butcher just outsiude of town, the hunters bring there kill there for cutting and many times the hunter does not want the bone and this butcher will give the bones and scraps to raw feeders for free. also when you guys buy chicken and turckey for your owner dinner you can by a whole one instead of already cut peices, then you can debone the bird yourself, feed the dogs the bones and no more cokkied ckicken and turkey bones all over the place, you get the breast the the dogs get several meals(1 turkey feeds my 5 dogs for 3 days and 3 people for 2 days) and you get boneless meat and less mess, and no extra cost.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Ahh, ok so the chicken was well priced. Lily LOVED the egg. She didn't like the shell though, but I can expect that since it wasn't ground up or anything. She gobbled it up though, and my mom kept saying I don't think this is a good idea, the shell will cause her an obstruction, blah, blah.. :rolleyes:. I'm going to sneak Roxy an egg with her kibble tonight. At least it's a start. :D

[lv4dogs]

LOL! About the price, tell her that if you spend more on the diet, you'll be saving more in vet bills from diseases that could be onset by poor diet ;) That's what I tell people when they say it's too expensive, then they're pretty much speechless. Or they bring up "but it takes too much time" and I say, "but you're spending more time preparing meals instead of at the vet because your dog is sick". And really, once you get in the swing of things and create a routine, it doesn't take up that much time. :)

Exactly! It cuts down on vet bills, skin problems which in turn might mean less bathing & the like, no more brushing teeth, less yard pick up, the lsit can go on & on & on & on.
Besides it's not really THAT much more expensive, it's even cheaper if you have small dogs &/or freezer space to accomidate bulk purchases.

Once you get into the swing of things I think it's actually less time consuming.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Roxy loved the egg, but not the shell, too. She inhaled it :o. Well, licked it, but pretty fast, xD. All I have left to do is get Erica's book, show my mom why Raw is better by making more points when she has excuses (;)), and buying the meat.
Also..
Me:A whole chicken's $2.37.
Mom: A WHOLE CHICKEN?! WTF! (ok she didnt say WTF, but that was her expression :D)
Me: It'd be enough for Roxy, and these right here (I think they were thighs or something) would be enough for Lily.
Mom: Says nothing. Walks off.
^_^

[lv4dogs]

Roxy loved the egg, but not the shell, too. She inhaled it :o. Well, licked it, but pretty fast, xD. All I have left to do is get Erica's book, show my mom why Raw is better by making more points when she has excuses (;)), and buying the meat.
Also..
Me:A whole chicken's $2.37.
Mom: A WHOLE CHICKEN?! WTF! (ok she didnt say WTF, but that was her expression :D)
Me: It'd be enough for Roxy, and these right here (I think they were thighs or something) would be enough for Lily.
Mom: Says nothing. Walks off.
^_^

A whole chicken will probably feed Roxy twice. And Lilly would probably only need half a thigh. (approx, guessing figuring they are the same size as what is sold in this area)

[Roxyluvsme13]

A whole chicken will probably feed Roxy twice. And Lilly would probably only need half a thigh. (approx, guessing figuring they are the same size as what is sold in this area)
So that'd feed Roxy 2x and Lily 4x. The thighs were pretty good sized I guess? I think they were $5, so 4 meals for each of them would be about $10.

[.sarah]

I would buy the whole chicken and cut off portions for Lily, it'd be much cheaper that way. When you buy cuts of meat you are being charged more for the time that it takes them to cut everything up.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I would buy the whole chicken and cut off portions for Lily, it'd be much cheaper that way. When you buy cuts of meat you are being charged more for the time that it takes them to cut everything up.
Okay, so if I bought 2 whole chickens.. I could feed Roxy half of it for one meal, plus maybe an egg or something added in there if I wanted? Then, buy another whole chicken for Lily and give her parts with added egg or veggies or something in there? If only my mom could get convinced and get a new job:(. So... let's say I bought 4 chickens. How many meals would that be for Lily? (saying I split the Chickens betweeen them. 2 for her, 2 for Roxy) Is meat usually cheaper at a butchers?
My mom still has it in her mind that they'll choke on the bones, or that the dogs are going to get sick because of all the crap they put in meat nowadays. I told her dogs have stronger immune systems, but she's still not listening to me!

[lv4dogs]

4 whole chickens (approx 2.5-4lbs/each) will feed ALL 4 of my dogs 2 meals each. And sometimes I even have a thigh or leg or the like left over after 2 meals.

Raustyk weighs 98lbs
Nanook 75lbs
(they get the bigger chickens)

Kaige 52lbs
Indy 62lbs
(they get the smaller chickens)

[Roxyluvsme13]

4 whole chickens (approx 2.5-4lbs/each) will feed ALL 4 of my dogs 2 meals each. And sometimes I even have a thigh or leg or the like left over after 2 meals.

Raustyk weighs 98lbs
Nanook 75lbs
(they get the bigger chickens)

Kaige 52lbs
Indy 62lbs
(they get the smaller chickens)
They should last a little while then, since Roxy's smaller than Kaige, and Lily's a midget compared to them.

[lv4dogs]

They should last a little while then, since Roxy's smaller than Kaige, and Lily's a midget compared to them.

Yeah, I'd say you'd have to split up the chickens between them. If you fed Lilly meat from only one chicken you'd have to freeze it because it would go bad before she could eat it all.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Yeah, I'd say you'd have to split up the chickens between them. If you fed Lilly meat from only one chicken you'd have to freeze it because it would go bad before she could eat it all.
I could just use one chicken and split it between them.. I dunno how they're going to react to the meat though, my mom said Lily won't eat it, but that's what she said about the egg, too ;D.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Any tips on convincing her..?

[IRescue452]

Let her read this thread?

[Kfamr]

Any tips on convincing her..?


Pay for it yourself.


That's what I had to do. My dad was okay with feeding them crap from Wal-Mart (Purina), and was easily convinced to take a step higher and purchase from Pet Supermarket (Nutro). However, feeding them $50/33lb food (TimberWolf) and RAW/BARF diet, was totally left to me.

May proove to be difficult for you since you're jobless, but if you get any sort of allowance whatsoever - save it. Next time you go grocery shopping and start up a conversation about raw feeding - pull out your wallet and tell her you'll pay for it.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Let her read this thread?
She won't come near the computer..

Kay, I do get a $10 allowance from my grandpa, and I did tell my mom that would take care of a small percentage of the stuff. I'm going to try to start walking some neighborhood dogs if anybody's interested, but I have no idea how to approach that. I can put up posters around the area, but maybe it would be better if I went door-to-door.

[Kfamr]

She won't come near the computer..


Print it out.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Print it out.
Don't have a printer either :\ I've told her about everything in this thread though.

[dogzr#1]

Maybe if you make a Power Point? That's what I'm doing. I'm putting all the information from this thread, plus the price of the food etc. I have 8 slides and I'm hoping to show it to her tommorrow.

[.sarah]

Don't have a printer either :\ I've told her about everything in this thread though.
I'll make you an "everything you need to know about raw" info packet and send it to you :p

[Roxyluvsme13]

I'll make you an "everything you need to know about raw" info packet and send it to you :p
That'll work xD. If you seriously want to I'll PM you my addy!
I can't make a powerpoint as I don't have the program on the computer. Is it available for download anywhere?

[.sarah]

That'll work xD. If you seriously want to I'll PM you my addy!
Yeah I could! I'm making little booklets for friends of mine who are interested but not totally comfortable with it. I probably won't have it done for a couple more weeks, but yeah, I could definetly send you one, even if you've already convinced your mom by then ;)

[Roxyluvsme13]

Yeah I could! I'm making little booklets for friends of mine who are interested but not totally comfortable with it. I probably won't have it done for a couple more weeks, but yeah, I could definetly send you one, even if you've already convinced your mom by then ;)
:D that might convince her.. I'll PM you my addy.

[dogzr#1]

I can't make a powerpoint as I don't have the program on the computer. Is it available for download anywhere?

I'm not sure, but I can look!

http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/beta/overview.mspx?showIntro=n

I think that site will allow you test it. If not then I'm sorry.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Okay, thanks. I forgot to say that I just cleaned out the freezer, so my mom can't say we don't have room now. Half of the freezer is empty ;D.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Ooh, do any of you have pictures of before and after of your dog's teeth? I just remembered I can make a slideshow with WMM.

[.sarah]

Ooh, do any of you have pictures of before and after of your dog's teeth? I just remembered I can make a slideshow with WMM.
Well I didn't take any before pictures, but I might be able to find some of them while they were on kibble and were panting or something. I took some teeth pictures back in March I think, and I can take some more to see if their teeth have gotten any better. Nova's are perfectly white and Mandy had a dental in October, so their teeth aren't going to be very different. But Luka had some nasty teeth for a two year old.

There are also some photos across the internet, maybe I can find some for you to use. If you're only using them to show your mom then I wouldn't worry about asking to use them, but if you're going to be posting it on the internet or something then I would ask the image owners first.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Well I didn't take any before pictures, but I might be able to find some of them while they were on kibble and were panting or something. I took some teeth pictures back in March I think, and I can take some more to see if their teeth have gotten any better. Nova's are perfectly white and Mandy had a dental in October, so their teeth aren't going to be very different. But Luka had some nasty teeth for a two year old.

There are also some photos across the internet, maybe I can find some for you to use. If you're only using them to show your mom then I wouldn't worry about asking to use them, but if you're going to be posting it on the internet or something then I would ask the image owners first.
I'd only be using them to show my mom. If you can find any that would be great.

[dogzr#1]

I got some pictures from here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=87610). It shows that the food doesn't look gross, and that the dogs enjoy it. There was one picture of Nanook that showed his teeth.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Thanks! Good Luck in convinvcing your parents ;D

[Roxyluvsme13]

Okay, double posting, sorry x__x. Buttt.. I'm starting it now, and the song's a bit weird.. but it fits the mood! I've gathered up lots of pictures of dogs, of the food, of good teeth, bad teeth, and I'm going to use the info from this thread.. I hope it knocks some sense into her! xD

[Kfamr]

Briana/Monica - Feel free to use pictures of The Muttlies. I have a few here of their first raw meal (Trout & veggie/fruit puree)

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=106130

And Simba's most recent picture thread has a photo of him chewing a chicken leg. :)

[Roxyluvsme13]

Briana/Monica - Feel free to use pictures of The Muttlies. I have a few here of their first raw meal (Trout & veggie/fruit puree)

http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=106130

And Simba's most recent picture thread has a photo of him chewing a chicken leg. :)
Thank you, Kay! My movie's already saving though >__> I'm going to go show it to my mom in a few minutes..

[Roxyluvsme13]

Well, it's no, because my mom's a lazy @$$ b****. Sorry, but I'm uber mad at her right now.
We can't feed Raw because she can't eat meat. YEAH she can. She just said she didn't want to have to cook double so she could eat meat. She said no meat in the freezer if she can't eat it, and the dogs don't deserve to eat better than us. Oh gee, apparently she doesn't care about them. Of course she doesn't. Roxy lives on a frikkin chain 24/7, her teeth are horrible, she's on low quality **** kibble. Apparently she doesn't care much about Lily either, since Lily's teeth are just starting to get bad. GOD, I hate her so much right now. :(

[Kfamr]

Brianna,

I understand where you're coming from but at the same time I understand where your mother is coming from. It is very hard to make ends meet now-a-days and I do remember reading posts about lack of financials in your household. Maybe instead of feeding RAW, ask your mother to upgrade their food to a better kibble, and that you will pay the difference in the kibble you buy now.


I don't know.. just throwing out ideas that you've probably already tried, I'm sure. I do know it's very hard on boths sides as I've been there. Maybe when you're older and get a job/income your mother will allow/help feed raw.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Brianna,

I understand where you're coming from but at the same time I understand where your mother is coming from. It is very hard to make ends meet now-a-days and I do remember reading posts about lack of financials in your household. Maybe instead of feeding RAW, ask your mother to upgrade their food to a better kibble, and that you will pay the difference in the kibble you buy now.


I don't know.. just throwing out ideas that you've probably already tried, I'm sure. I do know it's very hard on boths sides as I've been there. Maybe when you're older and get a job/income your mother will allow/help feed raw.
I know we're in a tight financial situation right now, and I wasn't even asking her to start it right now. All I asked was for a week, and even I'd pay for a portion of it. She always has some stupid excuse and says something about how I read too much online and it's all crap. I suggested switching to a higher food the other day, and I got yelled at and got all kinds of millions of excuses. I'm just so tired of her not caring about our dogs.
Thanks for trying to help though, Kay.

[dogzr#1]

Well I just showed them the slideshow and they said they'll think about it. I don't know if thats a yes, or no, but my step-dad went to the supermarket right now, so maybe he'll buy some raw meat for them. Luckily my step-dad used to be a vet assistant, so he knows a little more than my mom, and he answered her questions! I can't attach my Power Point because it is an invalid file type.

Edit: Well he came back and he didn't buy any raw for the dogs :( . Maybe they need to talk about it some more.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Well I just showed them the slideshow and they said they'll think about it. I don't know if thats a yes, or no, but my step-dad went to the supermarket right now, so maybe he'll buy some raw meat for them. Luckily my step-dad used to be a vet assistant, so he knows a little more than my mom, and he answered her questions! I can't attach my Power Point because it is an invalid file type.

Edit: Well he came back and he didn't buy any raw for the dogs :( . Maybe they need to talk about it some more.
At least your parents listened to you..
I guess the only thing I can do is get a job and buy the Raw myself. :(

[dogzr#1]

At least your parents listened to you..
I guess the only thing I can do is get a job and buy the Raw myself. :(

I'm sorry. :( I might have to do that myself if they don't want to do it. The food we feed now isn't good at all, so I really wish they let us feed raw.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I'm sorry. :( I might have to do that myself if they don't want to do it. The food we feed now isn't good at all, so I really wish they let us feed raw.
Same here. I don't have any way of earning money though.. Maybe my mom can start giving me an allowance.. My grandpa gives me a monthly allowance.

[k9krazee]

Well, it's no, because my mom's a lazy @$$ b****. Sorry, but I'm uber mad at her right now.
We can't feed Raw because she can't eat meat. YEAH she can. She just said she didn't want to have to cook double so she could eat meat. She said no meat in the freezer if she can't eat it, and the dogs don't deserve to eat better than us. Oh gee, apparently she doesn't care about them. Of course she doesn't. Roxy lives on a frikkin chain 24/7, her teeth are horrible, she's on low quality **** kibble. Apparently she doesn't care much about Lily either, since Lily's teeth are just starting to get bad. GOD, I hate her so much right now.

I'm sorry that she won't let you, I know what you're going through. I have been discussing this with my mother for a couple of months, and she always laughs it off. Just the other day I found a butt load of venison in the freezer in the garage thats been there since hunting season so I brought the idea up again. I told her that the kibble is running low and that if she wanted she could give me the $30 and I could go raw shopping. She won't go for it. I even offered to pay for it (for my dogs at least, but then I'd feel bad for the other 3) and she still won't go for it. She accused me of caring too much about the dogs and she wants me focused on my future instead of spending all my time and money on the dogs. I just don't understand sometimes :(

[Roxyluvsme13]

I'm sorry that she won't let you, I know what you're going through. I have been discussing this with my mother for a couple of months, and she always laughs it off. Just the other day I found a butt load of venison in the freezer in the garage thats been there since hunting season so I brought the idea up again. I told her that the kibble is running low and that if she wanted she could give me the $30 and I could go raw shopping. She won't go for it. I even offered to pay for it (for my dogs at least, but then I'd feel bad for the other 3) and she still won't go for it. She accused me of caring too much about the dogs and she wants me focused on my future instead of spending all my time and money on the dogs. I just don't understand sometimes :(
I'm sorry, Ashley. *HUGS* My mom just said no because she's fed up with me being vegetarian, because she's too lazy to cook 2 different times. I even said *I* would pay for the Raw. I'm going to do it whether she likes it or not. If she still doesn't like it I guess I'll go back to eating meat so my dogs can eat Raw even though I don't want to.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Double posting, again, sorry.

BUTTTTTT...

SHE SAID WE'D TRY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D
The only bad thing is I have to go back to eating meat.. :(. I'll do this for my dogs though. They deserve it. They truly do. They've always been there for me when I just wanted to run away and die, so I'll go back to meat for them. Apparently I must love them alot to do this..

[Roxyluvsme13]

Oops triple posting, but I wanted to ask some questions..

If I happen to go to the store tomorrow and my mom lets me get some Raw food, what do you suggest? If they still have the chickens on sale I may get one or 2 of those. But what else? Cheapest stuff? Or maybe I could even convince her to go to the butcher.. Are they cheaper?

[.sarah]

Well, you're not going to die on meat xD. Sometimes you've just got to prioritize. I would have done the same, and just switched back to vegetarianism once I moved out. Luckily my parents didn't make me do that, and it's lots of fun explaining I'm vegetarian to the grocery store clerk when I have a basket full of meat! :p

I'm so glad you are able to try it, though! Your dogs are gonna love you! :D



If I happen to go to the store tomorrow and my mom lets me get some Raw food, what do you suggest? If they still have the chickens on sale I may get one or 2 of those. But what else? Cheapest stuff? Or maybe I could even convince her to go to the butcher.. Are they cheaper?
Stick with chicken for a week or two, until their stools are firm. Then add in another meat source, then another, then another, until you have added in all main staples of their diet. But definetly take it slow or else you could upset their systems, and your mom might make you switch them back ;)

[Roxyluvsme13]

Well, you're not going to die on meat xD. Sometimes you've just got to prioritize. I would have done the same, and just switched back to vegetarianism once I moved out. Luckily my parents didn't make me do that, and it's lots of fun explaining I'm vegetarian to the grocery store clerk when I have a basket full of meat! :p

I'm so glad you are able to try it, though! Your dogs are gonna love you! :D



If I happen to go to the store tomorrow and my mom lets me get some Raw food, what do you suggest? If they still have the chickens on sale I may get one or 2 of those. But what else? Cheapest stuff? Or maybe I could even convince her to go to the butcher.. Are they cheaper?
Stick with chicken for a week or two, until their stools are firm. Then add in another meat source, then another, then another, until you have added in all main staples of their diet. But definetly take it slow or else you could upset their systems, and your mom might make you switch them back ;)

My mom says the Vegetarian stuff is too expensive.. I can live with meat, (I absolutely dont hate it!) She said that was just weird if I was vegetarian and was going to feed my dogs meat, because there was still meat being eaten.. Whatever.. :rolleyes:. She said butchers would be higher.. and if Lily starts puking or anything I know she's going to make me go back to feeding her kibble. But I'll have to explain she's adjusting to the new diet I guess.. I dunno if she'll even let me start tomorrow.. Any idea on how much chicken I should stock up on?

[.sarah]

Hmmm ... you could get either two 10 lb bags of quarters, or 5 whole chickens (at about 3-4 lbs each).

By the way, dogs tend to puke and get diarreah at the most inopportune times, like in the middle of the night. So if she sleeps with you, your mom would never even have to know. If Lily is vomiting (and I mean once a night, not multiple times a night), just clean it up and keep it a secret :p

[Roxyluvsme13]

Hmmm ... you could get either two 10 lb bags of quarters, or 5 whole chickens (at about 3-4 lbs each).

By the way, dogs tend to puke and get diarreah at the most inopportune times, like in the middle of the night. So if she sleeps with you, your mom would never even have to know. If Lily is vomiting (and I mean once a night, not multiple times a night), just clean it up and keep it a secret :p
I doubt we'll even buy it tomorrow, but maybe I can get an allowance advance and buy some stuff for them ^^ If I bought all that would that last a whole week? Oh yeah, when preparing.. am I going to have to weigh everything.. because we don't have a scale. And, do you recommend adding anything in with the meat the first time?

[dogzr#1]

Briana, you are so lucky you get to try it! I'll ask my parents again. I don't want to be pushy and get annoying.

[.sarah]

I doubt we'll even buy it tomorrow, but maybe I can get an allowance advance and buy some stuff for them ^^ If I bought all that would that last a whole week? Oh yeah, when preparing.. am I going to have to weigh everything.. because we don't have a scale. And, do you recommend adding anything in with the meat the first time?
It should last at least a week, probably more. I'm really just guessing here. I don't know how much they'd need, and I don't feel like doing all the math to figure it out and then figure out how much that'd be in a week :p

No need to weigh it. Just guess. If your dogs start to look fat, cut them down, if they are thin, increase it. By the way, a chicken quarter usually weighs around a pound. A half a 3-4 lb chicken obviously weighs 1.5-2 lbs :p If you bought whole chickens I would probably cut them in half and feed one half to Roxy and cut the other half in Lily-sized portions. Do it however is easiest for you, it doesn't matter really. If the chickens come with organs, put them in the freezer until you are safe to introduce them into their diet. Don't add anything to the meat, it would be too much for them to handle right now. Just use the chicken until their stools are firm, then add another protein source, and another, until all main sources are added. Once you've done that, you can add other things like veggies and organs. The reasoning for this is to slowly move them into the diet. Plus, if you are feeding two or more things at a time and there is a problem, then how do you know which meat caused it?

[Roxyluvsme13]

It should last at least a week, probably more. I'm really just guessing here. I don't know how much they'd need, and I don't feel like doing all the math to figure it out and then figure out how much that'd be in a week :p

No need to weigh it. Just guess. If your dogs start to look fat, cut them down, if they are thin, increase it. By the way, a chicken quarter usually weighs around a pound. A half a 3-4 lb chicken obviously weighs 1.5-2 lbs :p If you bought whole chickens I would probably cut them in half and feed one half to Roxy and cut the other half in Lily-sized portions. Do it however is easiest for you, it doesn't matter really. If the chickens come with organs, put them in the freezer until you are safe to introduce them into their diet. Don't add anything to the meat, it would be too much for them to handle right now. Just use the chicken until their stools are firm, then add another protein source, and another, until all main sources are added. Once you've done that, you can add other things like veggies and organs. The reasoning for this is to slowly move them into the diet. Plus, if you are feeding two or more things at a time and there is a problem, then how do you know which meat caused it?
Well, Roxy needs 28 ounces, about 1 and 3/4 pounds, but I may just do 1 and a half.. Lily needs 1/4 of a pound. Okay, Chicken only. Roxy really needs to put on some weight, and I'm so worried about her teeth right now it's driving me nuts.. I'm going to supervise while they eat, too.. Probably feed Lily before Roxy, since I'll have to stand outside with Rox.

Aww, Monica! Maybe they'll give in. I hope my mom sees the differences in the dogs and lets us continue the diet.

Oh, and Sarah, is it okay if I still leave Lily's kibble out for her all day?

[dogzr#1]

If you want so see my PowerPoint click the link below. If it asks you to log in, my sign in name is wolfndoglvr and if you want my password PM me.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/wolfndoglvr/lst?.dir=/Mail+Attachments&.view=l

[Roxyluvsme13]

Ugh, I cant watch it because I dont have Powerpoint :(.

[k9krazee]

If you want so see my PowerPoint click the link below. If it asks you to log in, my sign in name is wolfndoglvr and my password is mollys1.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/wolfndoglvr/lst?.dir=/Mail+Attachments&.view=l

Not working for me :( It tells me that the page cannot be displayed...

[Roxyluvsme13]

I'm uploading my presentation to Youtube.. I'll delete it as soon as you guys see it, since I dont want anybody to get mad at me using their pics..o__O.

[bckrazy]

Hm. If you want to decrease Lily's chances of getting an upset tummy, you should either feed her completely seperate (raw in the morning, kibble at night) or just feed raw alone. Mixing raw with kibble is more likely to cause an upset, and raw digests much faster than kibble.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Hm. If you want to decrease Lily's chances of getting an upset tummy, you should either feed her completely seperate (raw in the morning, kibble at night) or just feed raw alone. Mixing raw with kibble is more likely to cause an upset, and raw digests much faster than kibble.
Okay. She doesn't like her food much anyways.. Who can blame her? :rolleyes:

[Roxyluvsme13]

Btw, here's my presentation ;D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL2KluuiKck

[.sarah]

Btw, here's my presentation ;D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL2KluuiKck
I love it!! :D I love the background music! Mandy and Nova are stars. :D

The only thing that was incorrect was that there are no raw studies, but who needs 'em? ;)


Briana how do you make those movies? I'd love to make some!

[Roxyluvsme13]

I love it!! :D I love the background music! Mandy and Nova are stars. :D

The only thing that was incorrect was that there are no raw studies, but who needs 'em? ;)


Briana how do you make those movies? I'd love to make some!
I know there were no Raw studies, but my mom doesn't have to know that. ;) Actually, ahem, you people are the Raw studies! :D I make them with Windows Movie Maker.. If you dont happen to have it on your computer you can download it for free off windows.com I think.

[.sarah]

Yeah, I think there are enough raw feeders out there to provide enough proof! :D

Thanks, I need to try that. I've only used it to compress movie sizes, but I haven't tried making anything. I need to figure it out :o

[Roxyluvsme13]

Yeah, I think there are enough raw feeders out there to provide enough proof! :D

Thanks, I need to try that. I've only used it to compress movie sizes, but I haven't tried making anything. I need to figure it out :o
*nod* I told her about the fleas arent attracted to Raw fed dogs thing, and she said, yeah, right, whatever.
It's not too complicated to use! ;D Have fun!

[dogzr#1]

Not working for me :( It tells me that the page cannot be displayed...

Sorry :( . You can log into my name if you want to and look in my briefcase for it. It should be called 'My Presentation'.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Sorry :( . You can log into my name if you want to and look in my briefcase for it. It should be called 'My Presentation'.
I already tried that.. and it didn't work for me since I don't have Powerpoint.. Oh well. You can see my presentation above ^

[dogzr#1]

I loved it! Maybe I should make one of those ;) .

[Roxyluvsme13]

I loved it! Maybe I should make one of those ;) .
Thanks. *nods* You should, apparently it had SOME effect on my mom.

[dogzr#1]

I'm trying to download it now. I have to get some updates first, though.

[cali]

great video! and I see Shadow is a star :p you should also show her the video I posted here:
http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=106923

tell her the dog in the video was reccomended to be put down at the age of 4, because she would not live to be 5. then tell her that in the video that dog is 10 years old. there is the visable proof that Raw fixes health problems, she was rocomened to be put down because she could not even stand up at 4.

[Roxyluvsme13]

They just got their very first Raw meal! Chicken leg quarters were on sale for $5.37 for a 10 pound bag, so we got that. The expiration date is tomorrow though. But.. anyways.. Roxy got a leg quarter (is that too much? too little?) It was pretty good sized, and she thought she was in heaven :D. Lily got half a leg quarter (too much? too little?) and she didn't eat all of the meat, but she ate most of it, so I'll try giving her the rest of it later. Right now she;s chewing on her bone ^^

[dogzr#1]

They just got their very first Raw meal! Chicken leg quarters were on sale for $5.37 for a 10 pound bag, so we got that. The expiration date is tomorrow though. But.. anyways.. Roxy got a leg quarter (is that too much? too little?) It was pretty good sized, and she thought she was in heaven :D. Lily got half a leg quarter (too much? too little?) and she didn't eat all of the meat, but she ate most of it, so I'll try giving her the rest of it later. Right now she;s chewing on her bone ^^

That sounds really good! I think my mom is thinking more about it :D! Because today she was cutting some meat for supper, and she asked if the dogs could have it. I told her that, yes, they could have it, but it's wise to start with chicken. I am excited!

[Roxyluvsme13]

That sounds really good! I think my mom is thinking more about it :D! Because today she was cutting some meat for supper, and she asked if the dogs could have it. I told her that, yes, they could have it, but it's wise to start with chicken. I am excited!
Yay! I hope she agrees. My mom seemed to be agitated with all the stuff we had to do to get Lily's right. We had to break the bone and cut it, and it was a pain in the butt :p. It took her forever to eat, too.

[dogzr#1]

Yay! I hope she agrees. My mom seemed to be agitated with all the stuff we had to do to get Lily's right. We had to break the bone and cut it, and it was a pain in the butt :p. It took her forever to eat, too.

Tell her that is was just because y'all are new at it! Is it o.k to show my mom your video?

[Roxyluvsme13]

Tell her that is was just because y'all are new at it! Is it o.k to show my mom your video?
Haha, that's what I told her. I hope we bought enough chicken to last the week.. Sure! You can show her ^^

[Roxyluvsme13]

Still need to know if it's too much or too little, and jw if anybody knew any places to get cheaper meat? These were on sale, but they were still a little pricey, and I know my mom's not going to continue paying this much..:/

[Roxyluvsme13]

Wowwwww.. this thread is old. But I had a question.

Are pigs feet okay to feed? We got some today.. but I just wanted to make sure they were safe before I fed them to Roxy. :)

[Giselle]

I don't feed them. I never liked pig, honestly, so I don't feed anything pig. I've seen pig feet, though, and I think they should do well as rec bones, not as a main meal. My two cents.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I don't feed them. I never liked pig, honestly, so I don't feed anything pig. I've seen pig feet, though, and I think they should do well as rec bones, not as a main meal. My two cents.
Ah, okay. I'm trying to vary her meat some because I think she's getting tired of just chicken. She had beef tonight.

So, as a snack they should be good. Gotcha.

Thanks!

[IRescue452]

I also avoid anything pig. There's lots of variation: chicken, fish, rabbit, beef, turkey.

[Hellow]

Ok, could someone please e-mail me a powerpoint becaues i am trying to convince my parents into feeding raw but they arent taking it. My e-mail adress is [email protected] not good at making powerpoints.
Also, if you dont have powerpoint search for OpenOffice on google.

[luvofallhorses]

Ok, could someone please e-mail me a powerpoint becaues i am trying to convince my parents into feeding raw but they arent taking it. My e-mail adress is [email protected] not good at making powerpoints.
Also, if you dont have powerpoint search for OpenOffice on google.

make sure you do your research on it first before you feed it. :)

[Roxyluvsme13]

I haven't seen any rabbit around here :/

Curiosity, why don't either of you feed pig?

Reggie Make sure you do research. There's a lot to know. This thread is actually very helpful and if you go back a few pages there is a Raw video I did that may be helpful to you. But if your parents say no, don't force it on them. My mom is very open to Raw now and actually suggests it. Today she said Roxy eats better than we do :p.

[Giselle]

Mainly, I don't like feeding anything that has a reputation for carrying trichinosis. When I feed pig organs, I always cook it. Granted, meat in general carries a wide array of parasites (tapeworms and beef, for example), but I've just always been under the notion that pork is not a good food for humans and I sort of transferred that belief onto my dogs. It's extremely high in saturated fat and cholesterol, and I doubt the nutritional benefits are superior to any other less-fatty meat. I just really don't like pork :p

[Kfamr]

Pork has a reputation of being a "dirty" meat. It's also very fatty and salty.

I've only fed it once, after it was in the freezer for about a month to hopefully kill off anything icky. I would do that with the pigs feet as well.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Mainly, I don't like feeding anything that has a reputation for carrying trichinosis. When I feed pig organs, I always cook it. Granted, meat in general carries a wide array of parasites (tapeworms and beef, for example), but I've just always been under the notion that pork is not a good food for humans and I sort of transferred that belief onto my dogs. It's extremely high in saturated fat and cholesterol, and I doubt the nutritional benefits are superior to any other less-fatty meat. I just really don't like pork :p
Ah, okay. Well, the pig's feet is all we got anyways. The rest of the pork was outrageously expensive. And the chicken quarters we usually get were $9 a bag at the grocery store so we're going to get them elsewhere where they're only $4.90 a bag.

[shais_mom]

Pork has a reputation of being a "dirty" meat. It's also very fatty and salty.

I've only fed it once, after it was in the freezer for about a month to hopefully kill off anything icky. I would do that with the pigs feet as well.
I don't like the way Keegan smells after eating on a pork shoulder for awhile.
P U!

but so far the STINKIEST thing I have fed her was DEER LIVER - It smelled like POO!

[Kfamr]

I don't like the way Keegan smells after eating on a pork shoulder for awhile.
P U!

but so far the STINKIEST thing I have fed her was DEER LIVER - It smelled like POO!


Ever fed tripe? That is by far, the smelliest thing you could ever feed your dog. NASTY! I want to vomit thinking of it. :p

[shais_mom]

Ever fed tripe? That is by far, the smelliest thing you could ever feed your dog. NASTY! I want to vomit thinking of it. :p
nope I only bought the walmart honeycomb stuff before I found out it wasn't good for them - that was gross enough just watching her even tho there was no smell.

I bought Solid Gold Green Tripe - canned one time - wayyy before Raw and Keeg wouldn't even eat it!

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

I was going to buy Buddy some tripe yesterday, but I figured it would be too rich for him. He is 5 years young, and had been on a strict kibble diet. I have been giving him a raw meaty bone each day to try and clean his teeth. I want to eventually feed him half kibble, half raw - it is just going to be quite the transition. :p

[Hellow]

I have looked through this whole thread and memorized it, i am just not good at making powerpoints.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I got sick looking at chicken livers.. :o

[shais_mom]

I was going to buy Buddy some tripe yesterday, but I figured it would be too rich for him. He is 5 years young, and had been on a strict kibble diet. I have been giving him a raw meaty bone each day to try and clean his teeth. I want to eventually feed him half kibble, half raw - it is just going to be quite the transition. :p
actually the RAW diet isn't in favor of doing this b/c the kibble digests slower than RAW and it sits in the intestines and often can make the dog sick. Even the best of kibble. I found out the hard way - :) Way before Keegan was on RAW I would give her OCCASIONAL RMB for her teeth or whatever and she would throw up every time. When I eliminated the kibble altogether and she was strictly on raw - she had no problems. Altho she does occasionally throw up if she eats to fast - and THAT isn't PRETTY! ;)She has been on RAW since Sept - and is thriving on it - and I can count on one hand how many times she's had kibble since then.
yahoo groups has a LOT of message boards that is ABUNDANT with info :)

[Kfamr]

Feeding raw and kibble can be okay - as long as meals are fed within 8 hours or so apart. That is how my 4 are fed. They (usually) get a kibble meal in the morning and a raw meal for dinner.

As Staci said, they shouldn't be fed in the same meal.


Reggie, you need to do a lot more research than just this thread.

[shais_mom]

The times that Keegan has had kibble since she only gets fed once a day - she doesn't usually eat until the next day so most of the kibble has been digested. :)

And something tells me that Reggie hasn't memorized this entire thread.
but whatev-

[Roxyluvsme13]

And something tells me that Reggie hasn't memorized this entire thread.
but whatev-
Agreed.


Reggie.. PLEASE don't take this thread as your only advice. There's a lot of website links and such in here too I believe and you certainly couldn't have memorized this thread so fast. Don't rush into it. Take your time. Make sure you understand everything and make sure it's right for you, don't just feed it because it's something you want.

RESEARCH.

[Hellow]

I have researched and researched on different websites, too. If i need any other advice i will go to those websites. All i need is a Powerpoint.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

I wasn't planning on feeding both at the same meal - just kibble in the morning , and raw at night. Or even a few RMB's a couple times a week. There is a huge possibility of going straight raw, just gotta talk to DH about it. He is pretty good when it comes to the cat and dog diet (he pays for the food). My cats are eating Innova EVO, I was actually surprised when hubby picked it up and bought it. :)

I too, am worried about the dangers of feeding raw and kibble - that's why I have to decide whether to feed him kibble, with some RMB's to chew on - or straight raw. It is a big decision, because we have to fit it into our budget - and find out what works for the dog.

I was thinking of putting Buddy on Innova EVO, but he needs to lose a few pounds. I took him to the park for a run today (I plan to everyday), but I would like to feed him a good diet food to speed up the process. We currently have a big bag of Purina ONE Lamb and Rice that the old owner gave us.

Does anyone know of a good diet kibble for small dogs? It needs to be premium, no by-products, fillers, corn etc.

[Kfamr]

You could still feed him Innova EVO, just reduce the amount of food and increase exercise. :)

If he acts hungry, add sodium free green beans.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

You could still feed him Innova EVO, just reduce the amount of food and increase exercise. :)

If he acts hungry, add sodium free green beans.

Thanks, Kay! Like I said before, his last owner never really exercised him. He just burned off his energy around the apartment. I am going to be giving him a run each day in the park, plus DH walks him to go potty. I will be going to the pet store this week, so I will look and see what types of kibble they have.

[Giselle]

I also do kibble/raw. Honestly, I don't buy the whole "kibble digests slower than raw" thing. They all go through the same gastrointestinal tract - stomach, small intestine, large intestine, rectum = poop. To say that kibble digests slower than raw is a bit like saying gum takes 7 years to digest, hehe. I've spoken to many vet techs who endorse/are okay with raw and asked if they found any significant proof that kibble takes longer to digest than raw. The fact is that there is no research. What you read on the internet is entirely speculation. Additionally, nearly all high performance dogs (racing greys, Iditarod huskies, etc.) are fed a mixture of raw meat and high-protein kibble. If it works for those intense athletes, it makes sense to me.

The reason that some dogs cannot digest raw and kibble is because it's a foreign food. Drastic changes can cause stomach upsets in many dogs. I know some dogs who vomit and get the runs simply by switching from kibble to kibble. It's no different, imo. Anywho, that's my tiny rant for the day :p I feed Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul, by the way. I stopped doing Evo because it was getting a tad expensive, and CSFTDLS is a very nice food for a very affordable price.

[Hellow]

bump

[Roxyluvsme13]

Why are you bumping this..? :confused:

[shais_mom]

Why are you bumping this..? :confused:
wondered the same thing.