Ally again :( *UPDATED*

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

*SIGH* Ally has done it again!

My In-laws are visiting, and when they arrived I warned them repeatedly not to pet Ally, and to give her a wide berth. MIL told me that Ally is only biting me because I dont pray about it, and that if I show her love, and speak softly to her she won't bite! (I REALLY resented this - believe me if love alone could sort out this behaviour, Ally would have stopped biting years ago!!)

Of course now the inevitable has happened, and my MIL got a sore bite on her hand from Ally. It's not infected YET, but I can almost guarantee that if this requireds a trip to the Doctor, Warren is going to tell me Ally has to go.

I am aware that this may eventually happen - I CANNOT have her biting Cali - and you can flame me for this if you want - but in all liklihood she will have to be PTS. There are no no-kill shelters here, and I could not rehome a cat with such bad aggression issues. I was just hoping to postpone this horrible decision for as long as possible.

On the one hand I feel sorry for my MIL, because I know that the bite is sore, but I am REALLY annoyed with her for not listening in the first place :(

[Lobodeb]

Awww, Julie, my heart is breaking for you!

Does Ally really need to be PTS? Maybe she would thrive in a single cat household. As long as you are very clear about her aggression issues? Do you know why she's so aggressive? If she's in an only cat household, she can do what she wants. How old is she?

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))

[Russian Blue]

I'm not familiar with your area at all, but is there a chance you could rehome Ally through the local vet. Or could your vet be of any help with techniques to discourage the behaviour? It must be so hard on you to go through this and try to make the best decision for everyone.

Have you tried any of the bach remedies.....is it a stress issue? I don't remember your previous posts on why or when Ally bites. Here's a good article regarding biting with some suggestions.

Cat Biting and Scratching (http://www.thepetprofessor.com/articles/article.aspx?id=381)

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

The issues re re-homing are:
Bahrain is a TINY island. I have been involved in cat rescue here for a number of years, and anyone who could give a cat a home has already had one placed there by me! Our ONLY shelter PTS approximately 40 healthy cats and kittens every month - there is no way they will be able to help rehome a cat with behaviour problems. (IF they had realised Connor was deaf, he would also have been PTS, but this was not diagnosed until after I adopted him).

Ally's issues started about 6 months after I brought Connor home. Her attacks are usually totally unprovoked - she will either attack my ankles as I walk past, or jump onto the chair next to me whilst I am eating and try to bite my arm. her favourite is to snuggle in your lap, and as soon as you relax and stop being vigilant she lashes out.

These are NOT little nips - these are serious deep punctures which usually require medical treatment, and have left me with scars.

Cass - the article you linked was great. Ally is a mixture of the Dominant issues and some misdirected anger also. She is the Alpha cat - and is treated as such. She always get given treats first, and has her own special bed where Connor cannot jump up. She is always greeted and petted first also. (An animal psyc told me this about 18 months ago, and I have been doing this ever since)

Sometimes she will STARE at Connor with total hatred in her eyes, then turn around and bite me. When I notice her staring at him like that I either distract her with treats or leave the room.

I DID try rescue remedy - but I can't get a steady enough supply of it to treat their drinking water on an ongoing basis, and Ally is impossible to medicate. I have also tried Feliway plug-ins and they haven't helped.

Debby - forgot to mention - Ally is 5 years old.

She is my heart-cat and this is tearing me apart :(

[Catty1]

Is there anyone here who might arrange a transport...I know it is Bahrain...any ideas out there?

Poor you and Ally and Connor...

hugs
Catty1

[cloverfdx]

Oh Julie i am so sorry that you are having to go through this {{Hugs}}. I have no advice, but you will be in my thoughts.

:(

[shais_mom]

so sorry to hear this Julie - I know how much Ally means to you and I can't imagine your heartache. Your first priority is Cali of course. I hope you can work something out.

[emily_the_spoiled]

Julie, when you tried the Rescue Remedy did it help Alllie?

[jenluckenbach]

Julie, when you tried the Rescue Remedy did it help Alllie?
Yes, if it DID help I bet we would ALL send you a bottle.

Julie, I don't know what to say except I understand. An unpredicatble biter and a baby do not mix. And contrary to popular belief, not ALL cats are adoptable. I know that sounds strange coming from a volunteer with a no-kill rescue (who's very basis is that "there is a home for every animal") But I SEE the cats who live and die in our shelter because they are unadoptable.

If you need to put Ally to sleep, at least you know that all she ever knew during her life was LOVE. Place her with another family and she may still end up PTS, or maybe turned out on her own, to die alone and unwanted. Place her at your shelter and she will feel abandonment before the inevitable.......being PTS.

I truly wish I had the magic answer for you. {{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

[Lizzie]

You can't have a cat that might bite your baby, we all understand that and know you are in a terrible bind. Could you massage medication in Ally's ears because you should be able to get anti-anxiety medication made up this way - no, not on Bahrain probably, but can someone send it to you. Can you get a pharmacy somewhere else to ship you rescue remedy and something like Amitriptyline in gel format?

It must be tough for you working in cat rescue in Bahrain. My closest friend is from the middle east and has talked about the huge difference between the way cats are regarded there and the way they are regarded here.

[Barbara]

I can't think of anything. Ally is a cat I love very much.
{{{{Hugs}}}} to you.

[catmandu]

Thats A Shame If You Have To Give Up Ally.
I Would Think A Cat Thats A Mil Chomper Would Prove Quite Useful.
I Do Hope That You Can Find A Home For Ally, As She Bites Out Of Fear, Not Meaness.
I Hope Her Shots Are Up To Date After The Mil Bite.

[jazzcat]

I'm so sorry things haven't improved with Ally. :(

If the rescue remedy helps you can count me in to send you some!

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

Thanks so very much for all your kind words and offers to help.

Jen - I could not have put it better myself - you helped put into words how NOT every cat is adoptable, as unfortunate as that is.

I have been thinking constantly about this, and discussed it with Warren - as we see it there are a couple of options:

1. I would very much like to try the Amitriptyline or similar medication in a gel or cream. Is there anyone who would be able to ship it to my NY courier address *it would need to be packaged up with a couple of cheap toys or something so it looks like a gift and should sneak through customs*. Preferably someone with a PAYPAL account, because that would make it easy for me to re-imburse and pay post charges etc.

2. How long do these meds take to work? I reakon I've got 6 months to get Ally sorted out before she becomes a real risk to Cali, as at the moment they don't have much contact with each other, but once Cali gets more mobile it will become a problem.

3. IF the meds don't work, and IF I can get the money together, my MIL will give Connor a home in South Africa. I'm not sure if that will bring the "old" Ally back - I'd hate to rehome Connor, then if Ally didn't change I'd have to have her PTS and I'd end up with NO cats :( :confused: :confused:

4. I am also in touch with a pet communicator (a different one from last time) to see if I can understand Ally and Connor's feelings better and try to help them.

Thanks again to everyone - I love you guys!!!


((((HUGS))))

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

Thats A Shame If You Have To Give Up Ally.
I Would Think A Cat Thats A Mil Chomper Would Prove Quite Useful.
.

ROTFLMAO Gary!!!! :D :p

[Randi]

I'm sorry to hear you may have to let Ally go, but of course you can't risk Cali gets bitten. :( As you mentioned, the reason may be that she just doen't get along with Connor, but I really hope it won't be neccesary to take Connor to S.A. Conner seems to be such a sweet cat. :)

Sorry I can't help with advice, just want to say I'll be sending positive vibes that you find a solution soon.

((((hugs))))

[jazzcat]

Can the Amitriptyline or similar medication be purchased over the counter or would it have to come from a vet - need a prescription?

[Lobodeb]

Julie, I would be happy to ship it to you. I also have a PAYPAL account. Just let me know where to get it. I think I still have your NY address, too. Just say the word!

[Lizzie]

Amitriptyline and similar are prescription drugs and I'm sure a vet in Bah'rain would be able to prescribe. However, not many pharmacies can make it up into a gel, and possibly not where you live.

I just got off the phone with the pharmacist who makes the special meds for me and she told me good news and bad news. Amitriptyline, and other anti-aggresion/anti-anxiety medications can be made up into a massage gel. However, it's active life is only 30 days from the time it is made up. They do put little cold packs into the envelope when they send them to me, but I don't know how fast mail can get to you. Also, you would need to work with a vet in the U.S. because they didn't think they could work from a prescription from a vet in Bahrain.

The drugs can take up to 2 months to show effect and there is no guarantee that they will, or that they won't cause other problems. I used both Buspar (which worked quickly but too strongly) and Amitriptyline (which worked within weeks and did work well) on my Artful Dodger, who was super aggresive and made my other cats' lives a misery. I should have cut back on the Buspar dosage, as they told me later, but seeing Dodger look like a cabbage horrified me so much that I switched to another med. It can have a dopey effect at first but the cat adjusts and then it just helps with the aggression. I tried Clomicalm with Taranis, for spraying, and it worked but made her pee only once every 36 hours which isn't good for a cat who is prone to crystals. She is on a Prozac derivative now and after a month, I've seen only a very slight change in her behavior. Since your need is urgent, and you need to really clobber her with something, it seems that Buspar or Amitriptyline would be best - but that's up to a vet.

I sincerely hope I haven't got your hopes up only to dash them. Dealing with extreme personality problems is really distressing.

[Barbara]

I have not been on all day- just because I was afraid of this thread. I am so glad there may be some other options. I'm not much help here I know- but you know Ally was so lucky - that she found a home in a place like Bahrain where many kitties won't have the chance- and now to think that this home could be her end as well :( :( :(.
I keep my fingers crossed.

[jenluckenbach]

I tried amitritylin in cream form for Sterling at the begining when he was hard to pill (for spraying). In my case, the cream did not work as well as the pill. :( I also tried the amitriptylin in a treat form (suppose to just eat it on their own because it tastes good) and he would not touch them. BUT, Ally could be different. OR you may want to go the route of the stonger medication.

Is there ANY BODY, a friend or neighbor, who could keep Connor temporarily to "test" if Ally will revert to her old self. I would sure hate to see Connor go away and Ally still being aggressive. :(

[rosethecopycat]

Please tell me if it is out of line.

But as a last resort, if it is to save Ally's life, could you have Ally's front teeth removed surgically?

And a declaw, if neccessary.

I am generally very against declawing, but the alternative seems grim.

Forgive me for mentioning such desparate measures.

[jenluckenbach]

could you have Ally's front teeth removed surgically
I actually had a grooming customer who did this to their dog as the ONLY thing left to prevent having to PTS. I won't comment on whether it is right or wrong (we could argue about that all day), but it worked to save the dog's home.

[Cataholic]

Julie,
A couple of things to keep in mind. In my most recent experience with Jonah, and seven cats, NONE of them wanted anything to do with Jonah as he 'grew'. In fact, as he grew, he lost most contact with all of them. As he became more mobile, they RAN! Today, at 20 months, only two out of seven get within two feet of him.

Of mom's four cats, only one gets withint 2 feet of him. Maybe Ally would be the one to get close to Cali...I don't know, but, **most** cats and toddlers do not exist closely. Just something ot keep in mind re: time constraints.

How long did you do the feliway plug ins? And, did you have enough per square footage? I need more than they suggest, and it took more than 30 days to make a difference.

Finally, I would suggest another pet pyschic.

Good luck, and I know this must be very difficult.

[rosethecopycat]

I actually had a grooming customer who did this to their dog as the ONLY thing left to prevent having to PTS. I won't comment on whether it is right or wrong (we could argue about that all day), but it worked to save the dog's home.

Oh, I do mean ONLY as a LAST RESORT. it would truely be a shame, but if the alternative is PTS, then Ally's mom at least has an option.

My MIL suggests a playpen (cage) but that is an ongoing thing to tend to and Ally would most likely be unhappy, and the problem (and the worry) would still exist.

[Lizzie]

I don't think tooth removal is extreme since the circumstances are very extreme. Isn't it the incisors that make the deep puncture wounds? Three of my FIV+ cats have no teeth at all, and two others from the same shelter have only a few teeth. They are all fine, and they eat dry food - their choice. I don't find this repulsive as I do de-clawing, though this is one case where I would think it might be appropriate. I wish I could believe that Abby would do what most cats do, and avoid a noisy baby and toddler, but given the description of the way she attacks, I wouldn't be surprised if she went for him too. To my great surprise, I would rather see Abby lose her teeth and, if essential, her claws so that she doesn't lose her life and your don't lose your beloved cat.

[ChrisH]

Oh, Julie, {{big hugs}}. I don't have anything new to add except that you have my love & support always, and it goes without saying, also my prayers.

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

Thanks everyone.

I will have another chat with my local vet and see if there are any new developments in terms of the medications they can offer locally - a friend of mine took her cat to the vet last week, and was given an anti-biotic in a vitimin paste, so maybe they will have options other than pills available. She did give Ally Buspar previously - but with Ally being impossible to pill, the atmosphere in the house got even worse when I had to force a pill down her throat every day!

She did recommend hormone injections, but there I can't find any info about the longterm risks of this, so did not go ahead with it - maybe this is something I should reconsider.

Re removing her teeth - I have actually SERIOUSLY considered it in the past - after all in theory it would "only" be the canines - these are the teeth that cause the puncture wounds. I don't think declawing would be an option - as she is not a "scratcher" - although I suppose she may replace one bad habit (biting) with another (scratching). I DO try to keep both Ally and Connor's claws quite short, as when they fight they have in the past scratched each others eyes and needed vet treatment.

Re the feliway - the area is approx the size of two double-car garages - I had a total of 3 plug-ins running at the same time, and tried for 3 months.

Johanna - I appreciate your input re the cats interacting with Jonah, but it's not a chance I can take - it would only take one unguarded moment and Cali could be badly hurt - even scarred (physically and mentally). I simply can't risk it.

Jen -great idea re sending Connor on a "holiday" to test if Ally stops her nonsense - Connor is terrified of strangers, so the only people I can think of who *may* be suitable would be my next door neighbours (although I am terrified that one of their 4 year-old twins would leave a door open) :( . I'll have to think about it some more.

I am in touch with another pet communicator as well, but nothing new yet!

[jenluckenbach]

Sounds like a good plan of action. Hopefully the vet can shed some light on other options whether it be a medication in a cream, or the affects of hormones, or even tooth removal.

If you do send Connor to the neighbors, ask them to confine him to one interior room. He'd feel more secure and you could feel better about him NOT getting out an outside door.

[jenluckenbach]

Any news????

[Kfamr]

Oh Julie..

What a heartbreaking situation. I really don't know what to say, nor do I know how to handle many kitty behavioral problems. I can't imagine what you're going thru.

If you ever need anyone to talk to, my PM box is open as always.


{{{{HUGS}}}} Love ya and thinking of you...

Kay