He-larry-ass

[Cataholic]

I will make the following disclaimers: I don't think this is a recent post to Dr. Laura's website, as my failing memory has faint recall of this email. What is so funny to me is that I always forget about all the biblical references like this when someone 'reminds' me of my sinning status, quoting the bible verse of their choice!

Read and laugh!

On Laura Schlessinger's radio show recently, she said
that homosexuality is an abomination, according to
Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any
circumstances.

The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura,
penned by a US resident, which was posted on the
Internet. It's funny, as well as thought-provoking.

******************************************
Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding
God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and
try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.
When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for
example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination... End o debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some
other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both
male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring
nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans,
but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why ca n't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned
in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would
be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while
she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.
The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women
take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it
creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my
neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I
smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the
Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to
death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or
should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating
shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser
abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you
settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar
of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit
that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be
20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed,
including the hair around their temples, even though this
is expressly forbidden by Lev. 9:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a
dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football
if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by
planting two different crops in the same field, as does
his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds
of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to
all the trouble of getting the whole town together to
stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them
to death at a private family affair, like we do with people
who sleep with their in-laws (Lev.20:14)?

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus
enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am
confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that
God's word is eternal and unchanging.

[critter crazy]

ha ha ha ha ha!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!oh my goodness that is way too funny!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[lady_zana]

I love it!!! :D

[smokey the elder]

Leviticus always struck me as a bit harsh.

[cyber-sibes]

I remember this coming around e-mail a while ago - it's still good! I personally think that the bible is a historic document- not to say that it wasn't divinely inspired, but acknowledging that humans have had quite alot to do with the editing! But people, being people, will interpret it to suit their own purposes.

[Glacier]

I remember this coming around e-mail a while ago - it's still good! I personally think that the bible is a historic document- not to say that it wasn't divinely inspired, but acknowledging that humans have had quite alot to do with the editing! But people, being people, will interpret it to suit their own purposes.


I'm actually reading a book right now called "Misquoting Jesus". The author is a minister and professor of theology. The book is all about how the scribes who made the first copies added all sorts of things, some intentionally, some just transciption errors as this was long before the printing press. It's fascinating!

I've always loved this email.

[Cinder & Smoke]

"Misquoting Jesus" ...
how the scribes who made the first copies added all sorts of things,
some intentionally, some just transcription errors,
as this was long before the printing press.

http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/smile.gif
This thread reminds me of a few services I've attended where the Minister picked
one of these more "colorful" quotes from the Bible and "re-phrased" it in modern language -
to sound REALLY controversial!

The first 10 minutes of the sermon were a series of plays on the words ...
building up to an illogical conclusion of what the writers "must have meant".
THEN he'd get serious and expound upon what they "should have said".

http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/wink.gif

[Edwina's Secretary]

Leviticus always struck me as a bit harsh.


What a "devinely" droll understatement! :D :D :D

[lady_zana]

Speaking of misquoting Jesus, in Biblical times "abomination" didn't mean a sin and that you would be damned to hell for it. Instead, it meant you had done something to make you "dirty" and you needed to cleanse yourself before going to temple.

Like with the not having relations with a woman who is on her period, that's why the women moved into the Red Tent during that time and they would perform a ritual to cleanse themselves afterwards so that they could return to pray at temple.

[Cataholic]

Speaking of misquoting Jesus, in Biblical times "abomination" didn't mean a sin and that you would be damned to hell for it. Instead, it meant you had done something to make you "dirty" and you needed to cleanse yourself before going to temple.

Like with the not having relations with a woman who is on her period, that's why the women moved into the Red Tent during that time and they would perform a ritual to cleanse themselves afterwards so that they could return to pray at temple.

That is an interesting fact. But, are you sure they were cleansing themselves to return to prayer at the temple, as opposed to some other activity? :D :p

[Barbara]

We've had that Dr Laura story before and again I am LMAO :D

[kitten645]

Sometimes you have to get the message across
as best we can. Try this for those who can't
understand the King James Version:

1. I'm God. Don't play me.
(I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any
other gods before me.)

2. Don't be makin no hood ornaments
and charms outta me, or like me.
(Thou shalt not have any graven images)

3. Don't be callin' me for no reason
(Thou shalt not use the name of the
Lord thy God in vain)

4. Y'all betta be in church on Sunday,
and not just the Sundays when
it's Mother's day, Easter
and Christmas
(Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy)

5. Don't dis or cuss out yo momma...
and if you know who ya daddy
is, don't dis him neither.
(Honor thy father and thy mother)

6. Don't be goin' on no drive bys.
(Thou shalt not kill)

7. Stick to ya own Boo.
(Thou shalt not commit adultery)

8. Don't be borrow'n stuff and
don't give it back.
(Thou shalt not steal)!

9. Don't be snitchin' on the otha'
man to save your behind.
(Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy brother)

10. Don't be eyein' (skeeming) yo
homie's crib, ride, woman,
or nuffin.
(Thou shalt not covet anything that belongs to thy brother).

[Husky_mom]

LOL ..............LMAO..............so bad............*bump on floor*.........

ok i´m up again.............LOL so funny

[popcornbird]

What I find hilarious (or should I say surprising...or shocking?) is that...

...you are all laughing, joking about, and mocking your OWN faith. Something is wrong here...

:confused:

For those of you who believe the Bible is from God...don't you think God would be displeased by the mocking of Biblical verses?

For those of you who don't believe the Bible is the true word of God, or take part of it and reject part of it...or that it is changed....

Why do you call yourselves Christians? I mean...if you don't truly believe in it, or follow the teachings of Christianity, or even want to follow what you claim to believe is from God, why consider yourselves Christians? Doesn't Christianity stem from the teachings in the Bible? It doesn't make sense to me.

I am genuinely wondering about this, out of confusion, and don't mean any disrespect to anyone. Just a little confused/baffled here. Maybe I just didn't *get it*. I don't mean to get into a religious discussion, but I'm just so confused. Very confused.

[gini]

PCB with all due respect. God has given us many many gifts. One of those gifts is a sense of humor. If HE has given us a sense of humor then HE must have a sense of humor as well.

He has also given us free will.

However, no matter what you read on the internet such as a Pet site or a book, even though it may seem to be hypocritical, or mean spirited or, in this case, just plain funny - ONLY HE knows what is in our hearts.

And that is what matters most.

I am happy to let HIM judge me when it is all said and done.

[jenluckenbach]

PCB......think of it this way, not all people of Polish heritage will appreciate Polish jokes, and others are able to laugh at themselves. (same with Italians, people of Jewish faith, African-Americans.....etc, etc, etc.)

And the reason it is funny is because of the difference in the "age". The same way a TV show about an alien from another planet can't understand our human ways. And it is funny to watch them cope out of their league. Things were done very differently in the years B.C. and through the first centuries after Christ and are simply NOT how things are today.

I hope this helps you some, and I hope I didn't bore anyone else. :rolleyes:

I personally find it hilarious and true.

[lizbud]

PCB,

God knows what is in our hearts better than we do. I don't think
he needs to hear certain phrase or chants to see inside our minds.

[Cataholic]

...you are all laughing, joking about, and mocking your OWN faith. Something is wrong here...

Why do you call yourselves Christians? I mean...if you don't truly believe in it, or follow the teachings of Christianity, or even want to follow what you claim to believe is from God, why consider yourselves Christians? Doesn't Christianity stem from the teachings in the Bible? It doesn't make sense to me.

I am genuinely wondering about this, out of confusion, and don't mean any disrespect to anyone. Just a little confused/baffled here. Maybe I just didn't *get it*. I don't mean to get into a religious discussion, but I'm just so confused. Very confused.


You don't get it. Clearly. I am not "mocking" my faith. Since it is MY faith, I get to make the call on that one. ;)

There is nothing in Christanity that says, "thou shall not laugh". Nothing. Not there. Never, in Sunday School, did someone say to me, "hey, don't laugh at the Lord". Never. Nothing in my upbringing made me think, "God doesn't like us laughing about things". In fact, humor is often used to get across a 'message'. Why? Cause MOST (clearly, not all) humans are able to relate to humor, comedy. Hence those big billboards that say things like, "Hey, I am listening" or other present day talk/slogans, and are depicting God's statements to us, encouraging us to talk to Him, to worship Him.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I think we are on to something here! Perhaps the root of the difficulty in East and West communicating.

I am not sure whether the words in the Bible are exactly what God said....as I've never had a conversation with Him/Her. But I think it safe to believe a few things have been lost in translation and perhaps some personal thoughts inserted by the many, many, many men who have had their hands on that text since it was first written.

In any case, I think all the smiting, stoning, and slavery is something the world is much better off without.

But back to the subject. The funniest jokes about being Jewish and the Jewish faith I receive are from my Jewish friends. This is not about hurtful or degrading jokes. The joke that started this thread is not about the Bible (nor Christianity since it is referencing the Old Testement)...it is about hypocrisy and the innanity of imposing literally standards and conduct from thousands of years ago to modern life.

I was able to see a part of the HBO special on Queen Elizabeth I on HBO the other day. Acceptable practices in those days...beheading....draw and quartering, etc....would not be acceptable today...for which we should be happy. Times change...and hopefully for the better.

So maybe, trying to understand each others humor will help us understand each other.

[Cataholic]

ES- I have always found YOU full of humor and mirth! :D

[smokey the elder]

From my perspective, the biggest difference between the Quran and the Christian Bible is that the Quran is supposed to be read in Arabic, the language of its original transcription from Allah. But the Bible has been translated to the vernacular of the ages. The relative merits of each I will leave to wiser heads of the respective faiths, but therein lies the disconnect, IMO.

[kitten645]

[QUOTE=Edwina's Secretary]
In any case, I think all the smiting, stoning, and slavery is something the world is much better off without.

I'm sort of partial th the smiting myself. :p
Kitten

[Edwina's Secretary]

[QUOTE=Edwina's Secretary]
In any case, I think all the smiting, stoning, and slavery is something the world is much better off without.

I'm sort of partial th the smiting myself. :p
Kitten


i wish I knew how to do one of those polls. We could see which people prefer....smiting, stoning or slavery..... :D :D

[Cincy'sMom]

[QUOTE=kitten645]


i wish I knew how to do one of those polls. We could see which people prefer....smiting, stoning or slavery..... :D :D

I'm not sure...that might lead people to share a little too much information I just don't wnat to know :D :D

I love that email...too funny!!!

[buckner]

What I find hilarious (or should I say surprising...or shocking?) is that...

...you are all laughing, joking about, and mocking your OWN faith. Something is wrong here...

:confused:

For those of you who believe the Bible is from God...don't you think God would be displeased by the mocking of Biblical verses?

For those of you who don't believe the Bible is the true word of God, or take part of it and reject part of it...or that it is changed....

Why do you call yourselves Christians? I mean...if you don't truly believe in it, or follow the teachings of Christianity, or even want to follow what you claim to believe is from God, why consider yourselves Christians? Doesn't Christianity stem from the teachings in the Bible? It doesn't make sense to me.

I am genuinely wondering about this, out of confusion, and don't mean any disrespect to anyone. Just a little confused/baffled here. Maybe I just didn't *get it*. I don't mean to get into a religious discussion, but I'm just so confused. Very confused. In my opinion, Christians are to follow the NEW testament, not the old. The old testament is there to show us what life would've been like without Jesus coming to save us from ourselves and giving us eternal life. The old testament is not to be taken literal, but to only be a comparison in what life we could have had.

So, for me to laugh at Leviticus, I don't think that's laughing or mocking my own faith. Leviticus is a straaange book. And it contradicts a lot in the bible, and just makes a person wonder. But, the bible contradicts itself. For each opinion, you can find something in the bible to prove you're right - but for the counter opinion, you can also find something to prove that that opinion is right. It's an ongoing battle, you have to decide what you believe is to be literal and what isn't.

I think Leviticus is a silly book. I have a hard time reading Leviticus, but I just take it with a grain of salt because I know that's not how I *have* to believe to be a Christian. So if I want to laugh at that email, I can. I still consider myself a Christian and no one can ever convince me otherwise.

[lady_zana]

That is an interesting fact. But, are you sure they were cleansing themselves to return to prayer at the temple, as opposed to some other activity? :D :p


Hmmm.......I can't think of any other activity they might have been hurrying to get back too :D :D ;)

[RICHARD]

ES- I have always found YOU full of humor and mirth! :D


And me? Full of ........oh well.... :p :confused:


----------------

Being a fan of Dr Laura Shiat-slinger,

I find that any statement she makes is one to laugh at!

Who else would disassociate themselves from their parents, especially their mother.....and leave them to die alone and not be found for weeks???



Religion is beauty, belief, forgiveness and love.


And a little bit of humor.


Jesus died for my sins...two thousand years before I was born!
Now if that ain't faith, I don't know what is. It also strikes me as
strange......


Like how did he know I was going to have 'relations' out of wedlock?
Or put the National Football League in front of church on Sunday?
I was going to shoplift?
Drink or have dirty thoughts...
Coveting my best friend's wife?

If the Big Man Upstairs knew that things were going to get THIS bad ..he should have put the finger down and rid himself of this nasty old planet and the people on it...

Religion is what you put into it.

Saying WHAT you think a 2,000 year old book means is no different that a Roper and Ebert movie review..


Ebert: "I thought the Leviticus scenes were too graphic and gory!

Roeper: " I thought if gave god just the right amount of payback to the sinners!"

==============================

If you do a 'net search you will see the Filipino Easter tradition of crucifying men on that day....

Funny, no?

Funny (As in WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ABOUT?) YES!!

Hey what did you do on Easter Sunday?


Hung around.....By having nails put into my hands and hanging from a cross....


Well, I looked for eggs with the kids.... :confused:

=====================

One vote for stoning please!

[Edwina's Secretary]

In my opinion, Christians are to follow the NEW testament, not the old.

Aren't the Ten Commandments in the OLD testaments????? :confused: :confused:

[lady_zana]

Aren't the Ten Commandments in the OLD testaments????? :confused: :confused:

Yes, because they were given to Moses.

[RICHARD]

Yes, because they were given to Moses.

Wrong.
Charlton Heston got them later on.

[Cataholic]

Charlton Heston got them later on.


Hold on, didn't Heston run for president?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Hold on, didn't Heston run for president?


If you are a card-carrying member of the NRA the answer would be YES!

[gini]

Did any of you ever see the skit by Mel Brooks when he played Moses?

He is holding three tablets and says "God has given us 15 Commandments"
(and then he drops one that shatters)............"God has given us 10 Commandments"................

[Lady's Human]

You have to love Mel, if anyone else would have done the movies he did they'd be accused of everything under the sun. However, being that he's Jewish, he'd poking fun at his own background and no one can say a damned thing.

[Cataholic]

ES- my ignorance is amazing. I only saw those bumper stickers about voting for CH. I didn't know it was tied into the NRA. Now, before anyone jumps on the NRA bandwagon...I am not a fan of 'them', and will consider withdrawing my CH comment, lest someone accuse me of packin'. :D

Gini- I missed that skit, but, now have a visual of it- pretty funny!

LH- no comment for you, just didn't want you to feel left out! :p

[gini]

There are two images I have in my brain from Mel Brook's creations.

One is the pure white stomach with attendants all in pure white uniforms....and the chute opens up and down comes spaghetti and tomato sauce - filled with garlic.

The other is the line up of sperm...........with one black sperm...............

[smokey the elder]

Wasn't that from a Woody Allen movie?

[gini]

Wasn't that from a Woody Allen movie?

You are absolutely right! I am getting my funny images in my brain confuzzled! Thanks for catching this!

[RICHARD]

Be nice to CH...He is ill.... :(

[jackie]

What I find hilarious (or should I say surprising...or shocking?) is that...

...you are all laughing, joking about, and mocking your OWN faith. Something is wrong here...

:confused:



PCB, I believe in God, but i do not believe those are his words, and they are a laughable interpretation. Not all Christians are alike, I think bible thumpers (I am thinking of the TV pastor, but cannot remember his name) are HILARIOUS!

I have Muslim friends who thought the Mohammed cartoons were funny, because they know people who need to blow themselves up to get into heaven are crazy. Just like people who think being gay is a mental illness or an abomination are wacko.


PCB with all due respect. God has given us many many gifts. One of those gifts is a sense of humor. If HE has given us a sense of humor then HE must have a sense of humor as well.

He has also given us free will.

However, no matter what you read on the internet such as a Pet site or a book, even though it may seem to be hypocritical, or mean spirited or, in this case, just plain funny - ONLY HE knows what is in our hearts.

And that is what matters most.

I am happy to let HIM judge me when it is all said and done.

Very well put Gini! :)

[cyber-sibes]

I have Muslim friends who thought the Mohammed cartoons were funny, because they know people who need to blow themselves up to get into heaven are crazy. Just like people who think being gay is a mental illness or an abomination are wacko! :)
*Amen*, sister!

[popcornbird]

I have Muslim friends who thought the Mohammed cartoons were funny, because they know people who need to blow themselves up to get into heaven are crazy.



People who want to blow themselves to get into heaven ARE crazy, because that isn't going to get them to heaven to begin with, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the cartoons. Absolutely nothing. Those people are crazy because their actions, thoughts, etc. are insane. What does that have to do with the cartoons though? The cartoons were NOT funny. Not one bit. They were actually quite the opposite.

My post, which I posted in confusion, was perhaps because as a Muslim, we believe the Quran is the 'literal' Word of God, so no one can reject anything in it if they claim to be a Muslim and believe in the book. That is rejecting your own beliefs...saying you believe in something, but then not truly believing it. I realize the Bible has different books, different interpretations, and can be confusing or condradictory, but I 'thought' Christians believe in their books, which made me wonder, "How can people make fun of something they believe in?" I didn't realize where I was wrong in this. Didn't know all Christians don't believe in all of the books, so, my apologies in that. I do not have anything against having a sense of humor. In fact, people who DON'T have a sense of humor are boring. I realize now I just didn't 'get' this. I wouldn't ever make jokes about my faith, so I guess I was seeing it in that light, not realizing the difference at the time. Sorry about that.

[lizbud]

Popcorn Bird,

I have a question about muslims. Why are the muslims of Darfu/Sudan
treated so horribly by other Muslims? It seems to be the brown skinned
Muslims have a hatred for the black muslims. :confused:

[popcornbird]

Popcorn Bird,

I have a question about muslims. Why are the muslims of Darfu/Sudan
treated so horribly by other Muslims? It seems to be the brown skinned
Muslims have a hatred for the black muslims. :confused:

I'm not sure what made you ask that question, but I'm confused. Where on earth do you get that from??? :confused:

I have never once met a Muslim who treats dark-skinned Muslims (or ANYONE!!!) badly, or any differently, nor have I heard of anything like this. Really, I don't know where you get this from. If there are Muslims who treat Muslims of darker skin badly, then they are behaving terribly...not only against the people, but against their own faith.

In his last sermon before he passed away, Prophet Muhammd said,

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action."

There are 'racists' in every society. Racist because of their lack of humble nature. Racist because they are full of hate just because another person was born with a different skin color. I cannot stand racist people, and no religion can be held accountable for the wrong actions of a few who claim to be a part of that faith, but go against it with their actions. It is the people who are responsible for that, not the religion.

And to begin with, how in the world could I answer a question in behalf or the wrong-doings of other people? Am I *them* to know WHY? Islam so strongly states that all people are equal before God, no matter what their color, nationality, gender, etc. If there are people who go against it, they will have to answer God for it.

This is EXACTLY why it is so important to study other religions. Partial knowledge is dangerous and causes confusion and wrong impressions. That applies to me too. :p

[CagneyDog]

realize now I just didn't 'get' this. I wouldn't ever make jokes about my faith, so I guess I was seeing it in that light, not realizing the difference at the time. Sorry about that.

Honestly, PCB your posts always manage to offend me. I think what you don't realize is that many people do not feel as strongly to their religion as you do, and the thing is, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If people make jokes about their faith, then who cares? What's wrong with that? It kind of goes both ways, you can't fathom why many people of other faiths "disrespect" their faith, but yet many people that are not of your faith can't fathom why many muslims take things so very seriosley. Religion is a low priority in my life, and many others.

[RICHARD]

And to begin with, how in the world could I answer a question in behalf or the wrong-doings of other people?

A great start would be to ask questions and seek answers.

When I ask a question I look for the answers.

I check many sources and come up with what is sometimes a half-truth.

But I try to find out.

I saw a picture in Fridays L.A. times.
It was from an overseas protest-someone held up a sign that said-

Europe's the cancer-Islam is the answer.

Like, what was the question??

It's all a matter of holding up the mirror to one's face.

We all don't like what we see, but there are times when we have to admit we aren't the most attractive beings on the planet. :(

[lbaker]

Oh pish posh :o aren't there enough interpretations of "the written word" to keep us all busy? Whose writing? In which language? Whose interpretation? What about interpreting the scrawles on the walls? Oh, I digress.. that would bring up cave men and "intellegent design" hey, right :rolleyes: Written word? How about what we hear and follow in our hearts ~ this is plum silly :rolleyes:

[Lady's Human]

PCB, why do Christians sometimes take the Bible with a grain of salt?

The books were originally written in a smattering of ancient hebrew, aramaic, ancient greek, and a few other languages. They were translated into Latin, then translated into various other languages from the latin translations. Then they were translated into English from the "original" sources, and translated yet again into other languages. All this leads to some bitter arguments over what was said by whom when, and what the context was. There are sects of Christianity that are fully determined that THEY and only THEY have the true translation, and they have the copyright on how to worship. I don't think the Russian Orthodox or Greek orthodox churches have spoken to the Vactican peacefully in a few centuries, and we won't even get into the Coptic church.

One of my favorite faux pas from bible translations comes from a mid 20th century attempt to translate the bible into Arabic. When the translation was proofed, they found that they had published several thousand Bibles with a "minor" error due to the translation. The error? On the fifth day, God created armored tanks. Oopsie!

[lizbud]

I'm not sure what made you ask that question, but I'm confused. Where on earth do you get that from??? :confused:

I have never once met a Muslim who treats dark-skinned Muslims (or ANYONE!!!) badly, or any differently, nor have I heard of anything like this. Really, I don't know where you get this from. If there are Muslims who treat Muslims of darker skin badly, then they are behaving terribly...not only against the people, but against their own faith.

This is EXACTLY why it is so important to study other religions. Partial knowledge is dangerous and causes confusion and wrong impressions. That applies to me too. :p


This is an example of what I'm talking about......

http://www.refugeesinternational.org/content/article/detail/3215?PHPSESSID=5ce00f92779c166324e1d

It has been an ongoing problem for years.I don't know many muslims that
might be able to answer my question.

Don't want to hijack this thread, but saw an opportunity to ask a muslim
I know from PT. Thanks.

[Cataholic]

Liz- I couldn't believe that awful article. :(

I just don't get religion. Not at all.

And, as to 'hijacking' this thread, don't worry. I don't own the thread, just my posts in it. AND if the thread takes a turn away from what I originally posted? That just means there is more to talk about besides what I posted, and I would be the last person to indicate that was improprer.

[popcornbird]

Liz, that article brought me to tears. :( I had no idea of the situation in Sudan, but from what I read in that article, it is awful, and something I cannot comprehend.

The problem with the West...BIGGEST problem, in my opinion, is that they don't know ANYTHING about Islam...not one bit, don't know Islamic history, don't know what the Quran says, don't know fundamental Islamic beliefs, and from what I can see...don't even TRY to know or understand. When someone doesn't KNOW about something, and they hear something from the media like this, they automatically assume it is Islam. Assuming while not knowing is a terrible thing. ANYONE that KNOWS the rulings of Islam, anyone that has read the Quran, anyone that knows the biography of Prophet Muhammad, and about the lives his companions and followers lived would have a COMPLETELY different picture. The people this article tells about are committing a MAJOR sin in the eyes of Islam. When I know Islam, its rulings, and how much the religion is against such terrible crimes, how can I answer you when you ask me WHY some Muslims do these things? The WHY goes through my mind too. I think, "Islam says this...you say you're Muslim. WHY are you doing these things???" When one goes against their religious teachings, it makes me feel they don't truly believe in it, and are only a part of that faith because of birth, and not out of true understanding of the religion. Christians commit crimes, yet Christianity is never blamed. Jews commit crimes, yet Judhism is hardly blamed. Yet when a Muslim commits a crime, somehow, the whole world points their fingers at Islam. I know that some of you will say Christianity IS blamed at times, and that is true, but these days, on the media, all you hear is Islam being blamed. Everyone overlooks the actions of others. For that, I too want to ask WHY??? I am honestly getting quite sick of it.

[Lady's Human]

Islam winds up with the blame mainly because Imams are speaking out in favor of the crimes.(Not saying the Imams doing the talking are true muslims, but they say they are)

I'd put these Imams in the same boat as Torquemada (The Inquisition) and the various Popes who started the crusades.

[lizbud]

Christians commit crimes, yet Christianity is never blamed. Jews commit crimes, yet Judhism is hardly blamed. Yet when a Muslim commits a crime, somehow, the whole world points their fingers at Islam. I know that some of you will say Christianity IS blamed at times, and that is true, but these days, on the media, all you hear is Islam being blamed. Everyone overlooks the actions of others. For that, I too want to ask WHY??? I am honestly getting quite sick of it.


I think the fact that this is a horrible crime being done by muslims
against other muslims. That's what I don't understand. :confused:

[popcornbird]

I think the fact that this is a horrible crime being done by muslims
against other muslims. That's what I don't understand. :confused:

You don't understand this...but do you think I do? How can I possibly answer a question in behalf of people I have never seen, never met, didn't even know exist? Originally when you asked the question, I was wondering what/where Darfu is. I didn't even know that. I find it quite funny that anyone would think I'd have the answer to why these completely foreign people to me commit crimes. How would I know? And especially to ask me about people of African origin. I am not aquainted with a SINGLE person from that region. They are completely foreign to me. How could I know of people that are in another continent, where I've never been and never seen? Its a little ridiculous to ask me. They might claim to be Muslim, but there are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. I'm not accountable for what all of those people do. I'm a single little human being who is only accountable for MY deeads and actions, not anyone else's. I don't understand these terrible actions myself!

As to Imams not condemning them? Who are these imams anyway? I find it funny that the Imams that have always been famous to the Islamic world have always stood up against these things, yet the Imams that none of us Muslims know of until the media introduces them to us are the ones who support it. Who are these imams anyway? There are MANY hypocrites out there...MANY. Who is to say they are imams? Themselves? Generally speaking, an imam is NOT a religious leader. An imam is someone who leads the congregation in prayer. Just because someone's an imam, doesn't mean he's a scholar. Just because someone CLAIMS to be an imam doesn't mean he is. AND, I will stress on the fact that people in the West don't have a clue about Islam. If they did, they would be able to distinguish which imams represent Islam and which ones don't. If they did, they would know who's a hypocrite, and who is real. But of course, when people don't want to learn, they end up assuming, which leads me back to what my husband always jokingly says when people assume and end up being WRONG.

"Never assume...it makes an ASS out of U and ME."
*laughs* :D

I have come to the realization that THAT is the main problem and the main reason people blame Islam. Cause they're clueless and like to assume. When I am clueless about something and don't 'understand', I try to learn about it so I can have a deeper understanding. If people don't do that, they will continue to assume, which will lead to trouble. Lack of understanding, knowlege, and the 'who-cares attitude' and unwillingness to learn. Having partial knowledge is dangerous. Again, I stress on the fact that people need to either seek complete, proper knowledge of religions, cultures, and other people, or stay quiet. Speaking about stuff you do not know of is just wrong. It is like an engineer questioning and arguing with a knowledgable surgeon about what he's doing. Obviously, he wouldn't have a clue about the surgeon's years of education and training as he never studied medicine, so he would never understand, and would never be giving right 'arguments' either.

That being said...why are we hijacking this thread? Enough. I'm not posting here anymore. I'm not in the mood to argue or be questioned about things I am so strongly against myself. It just makes no sense to me.

[lizbud]

Calm yourself please. I did not ask to embarress or upset you. It's just
that you seemed to be welcoming to questions about Islam before and
went to great pains to answer questions for non-muslims.I apologize if
I offended you, that was not my intent.

[CagneyDog]

You know PCB, it's one thing to say this stuff and another to act on it.


Having partial knowledge is dangerous. Again, I stress on the fact that people need to either seek complete, proper knowledge of religions, cultures, and other people, or stay quiet.

Just from reading some of your posts around Pet talk I can honestly say that this is a fairly hypocritcal statement coming from you.

[K9soul]

Not trying to contribute to the 'hijacking' here, but I think PCB is always very willing to answer questions she can ABOUT her faith, but asking why certain people who supposedly are the same faith do certain things or act certain ways is something she can't answer, just as I can't answer why people of my faith or beliefs are able to do horrible things when it is against the faith's teachings. If someone said 'how come these Christians did this and this and this?' I really couldn't answer that either. And if I were asked that constantly I might get frustrated too. Didn't Hitler and his followers call themselves and believe themselves to be Christian? There is no way I could answer about how they could call themselves Christian and believe in the faith, and yet do the things they did. Just trying to see things from Pops' perspective.

[Cincy'sMom]

Since the hijacking seems to be the theme now, I'll jump in too...

I don't mean to speak for Liz, but I don't think she was trying to ask PCB specifically why "those people thought that way"., but more , is there a known history within the faith where these two groups do not get along.

In a less violent Christian example, Baptists and Catholic have very different even thought they are both Chrisitian faiths, espically when it comes to salvation. Although I am not Bastist, I have basic understanding of what these differences are and could do a basic overview. That isn't to say I could explain the thoughts of every person in either religion, but I think that is more onthe level of understanding Liz was looking for.

[K9soul]

That's a perspective I hadn't thought of it in (probably cause I was trying to see things from PCB's perspective), but that makes sense too. It could just be a matter of miscommunication/misunderstanding. Easy to do through writing, especially on emotional topics.

[Kfamr]

This whole thread made me giggle, too, Joh, thank you again! :p :D

[lizbud]

Since the hijacking seems to be the theme now, I'll jump in too...

I don't mean to speak for Liz, but I don't think she was trying to ask PCB specifically why "those people thought that way"., but more , is there a known history within the faith where these two groups do not get along.

In a less violent Christian example, Baptists and Catholic have very different even thought they are both Chrisitian faiths, espically when it comes to salvation. Although I am not Bastist, I have basic understanding of what these differences are and could do a basic overview. That isn't to say I could explain the thoughts of every person in either religion, but I think that is more onthe level of understanding Liz was looking for.

Thanks Amy. That's exactly what I had in mind. :) I really didn't think my
post was that unintelligible, but misinterpretations happen. The differences
in the christan faith is a great example. Liz.

[Cataholic]

Alrighty now, folks! I love hijacking. It is always (well, usually) more interesting than the OP! And, since I was the OP, I can insult me, right?

As to the religion thingy, I want to add something. I was finishing up a David Baldacci book last night, and I can't remember the name. Anyhow, it involved a plot to kidnap the US president, and it was done by a team of claimed muslims/Islamics and some people here in the US.

That made me ponder something. In the last decade or so, I am not familar with "Christian" or "Jewish" terrorists groups taking out other "Christian" or "Jewish" (or Baptist, methos, luthers, etc) groups. BUT, I do see to have some recollection of Muslim or Islamic groups taking out other religious/government groups. And, I wonder why? I have the mind that it is more because of the extremist position this faith/religion/culture takes than anything else. I don't understand why it is done with the blessing/non stance/eye shutting action by, supposedly, the larger group that believes this is wrong. "This isn't what Allah meant" isn't good enough for me.

I know there are oddballs of all religions/faiths/cultures. But, this seems to be a significant group of people doing this sort of thing.

I 'blame' Islam because it IS Islam. That is what these terrorist groups state. These people aren't Catholics, are they? No, they are Islamic terrorist groups.

[lbaker]

Joh, you may get into trouble for that but I must agree ~ sadly enough. The Crusades had enough of that to disgust the world forever, how long before the "other" "good" Islam leaders stand up and say "ENOUGH!!" ? :( :confused:

[Cataholic]

Joh, you may get into trouble for that but I must agree ~ sadly enough.

No kidding. Sheesh.

I would hope anyone reading my post would recognize that I have nothing but the utmost respect and love for PCB, and do not include her in my statement. She is one of the least violent, most loving people I have 'met'.

[lbaker]

I'm sure that's very clear to all, including Pops :)

[K9soul]

I'm sure that's very clear to all, including Pops :)

Well I may be in the minority here but it's not clear to me at all.


I 'blame' Islam because it IS Islam.

I was very shocked to read such a statement and I don't know how in the world PCB WOULDN'T feel hurt by that. Islam is her faith, her whole world centers around it. To state that terrorism and violence is because of Islam just blows my mind. I thought on PT people were always talking about never lumping one group together as a whole and making judgment, being open minded and accepting of all faiths and cultures. Can one blame Christianity for the actions of the KKK (which I consider to be a terrorist organization), or catholicism for the IRA's actions? Much of the world views America and Americans as world terrorists. It's all a matter of point of view.

I'll probably get blasted in some way for this, which is why I generally stay away from topics like this and keep my opinions to myself, but I see Pops getting hurt and jumped on in this thread (i.e. Cagney) when all she has ever done was ask questions when she didn't understand something and state her own opinions with conviction but without being judgmental if others felt differently. Yes her faith is very important to her but she did not tell anyone else they needed to feel the same way or believe the same way, she just stated her OWN beliefs the same way everyone else is.

I guess I've said what I want to say. Blast away :(.

[lbaker]

This whole thread started because of some humor that most of us found funny. That's called a sense of humor, one can laugh at what goes on around us instead of screaming and tearing our hair out. To take it and run it into personal things was never the intent. If anyone was offended they should stay out of "The Doghouse". IMO. I think some people aren't giving PCB the credit she deserves for having the strength of her convictions and respecting her for that, she doesn't need the peanut gallery, she handles herself OK. SHE didn't get rude, neither did Joh.

No "blast", just my opinion. I believe that's allowed, in The Doghouse.

[Vela]

Yeah opinions are allowed in the Doghouse but there is still no need to be rude and your "peanut gallery" comment was not necessary. You don't know how PCB felt about it and others do. SHe does stand up for her convictions and I give her plenty of credit, but I also know she's human and gets hurt feelings too when people say things that are judgemental about things she beleives in so strongly. Seems you ought to be able to disagree without being outright rude, even in the Doghouse, and since opinions are allowed here, this is mine. This thread was never meant to be harmful but it still doesn't excuse being rude.

[Kfamr]

And with the friendship that PCB and Johanna have had over the years, I'm SURE PCB knows very well how much Johanna cares for her and has never had any intent in upsetting her in any way.

It IS very clear to me as I don't think Johanna's intent towards anyone is to personally hurt them here, and especially not PCB, and I certainly hope PCB realizes that. She is HIGHLY capable of standing for herself, as we have all known her to do so.

If PCB has any problems at all with what Johanna said I hope to all that is good that she spoke with Johanna personally about that, as that's what friends do!




That said, someone with very, very strong beliefs and opinions should expect someone with differing beliefs and opinions to butt heads. Not saying anyone deserves any bashings or whatever you'd like to call it. But, they should have a heads up to what could possibly come about when their beliefs and opinions are said in public, especially being so strong.

[Cataholic]

I am at a total loss of words here. I rarely see the need to defend myself, as my opinions are my opinions, and, I am an individual quite capable of expressing them.

I continue to insist that only I know what I meant and didn't mean, and, while one could read anything they wanted into any post (and, Lord knows I have been accused many, many times of reading things into posts that apparently were not there), I still maintain that I, alone, have the 'right' to say what I did and did not intend.

I did not intend to insult PCB, personally. Having said that, I will not retract my statement about Islam. Good grief, if the only opinion everyone ever shared- whether it be 'right' or 'wrong' in another's eyes was what EVERYONE sanctioned as 'okay', there wouldn't be any discussion.

If PCB isn't responsible for ALL of Islam, then, why ever would my comments speak to her, personally? I am forbidden to voice an objection to Islam becauses of PCB? Whatever.

The internet should be a microcism of the 'real' world. In my 'real' world, one does not go around pretending not to have an opinion of something, lest it offend another. I wasn't rude in my post, and anyone that found offence at Lbaker's comment about the 'peanut gallery' is reaching. Plain reaching.

One can always find offense. How about one extending the benefit of the doubt?

Sometimes, I think I am still in high school with all the gossiping, pm'ing, "did you see what so and so said/did..", and the people jumping on the bandwagon type garbage.

[lizbud]

The internet should be a microcism of the 'real' world. In my 'real' world, one does not go around pretending not to have an opinion of something, lest it offend another. I wasn't rude in my post, and anyone that found offence at Lbaker's comment about the 'peanut gallery' is reaching. Plain reaching.

One can always find offense. How about one extending the benefit of the doubt?

Sometimes, I think I am still in high school with all the gossiping, pm'ing, "did you see what so and so said/did..", and the people jumping on the bandwagon type garbage.

I agree with you. :) Nothing amazes & often irks me more than the few
who always read controversial opinions in the dog house & feign shock
and horror that someone expresses that opinion.Nobody said anything rude
or uncalled for to or about Popcorn bird. She has the ability to speak for
herself & does that very well. I, for one, always welcome her comments on
any subject.I most times think of PCB as older & more worldly wise than her
she is. My fault entirely.I love a good exchange of ideas & shared opinions.

[popcornbird]

I was not going to post here again, BUT, I feel the need to do so now.

If Johanna had said she feels those Muslims are to blame, I would have had no problem with it. She didn't say that. She said she blames Islam because it IS to blame...emphasizing on the 'is' as if what she was saying was a fact. It was NOT posted as an opinion. To state such a thing as a 'fact', especially when an individual has absolutely NO knowledge on the issue is a major 'wrong'. Its not about opinions. Its about making a completely false statement to a public group, not having ANY knowledge to back up your statement, and insisting you have the right to have your opinion.

I have always had nothing but good feelings towards Johanna, and anyone from PT who was ever close to me is a witness of that. We've always had a strong friendship. I was utterly shocked and HURT when I read her post. To say something about the actions of Muslims, that wouldn't have bothered me. To say ISLAM is the PROBLEM??? Does that bother me? It kills me. To have that coming from my FRIEND, about something that is more important to ME than my existance. If she's saying anything about ISLAM, the religion...yes it DOES speak to me personally. It is my faith. The reason I live. AND, it is always MY top priority in life. To have someone not even knowing what it is come on a public forum and make such ridiculous comments is infuriating to me, and when it is such a close friend, it hurts like heck. I will need a LONG time to get over this.

Before I leave, I must add...people on PT, particularly in the Dog House, are a bunch of hypocrites. Everytime we've had threads about homosexuality, the MOMENT anyone voices THEIR OPINION (which they have every right of posting according to the argument 'its my opinion'), everyone jumps at their throat, says 'there are gays here...they will feel hurt...blah blah blah...'. Apparently, the feelings of some people are above the feelings of others. Apparently, hurting some people is a greater crime than hurting someone else. Hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hypocrisy. I don't care if any of you are going to blast me for this. It is the truth, the truth, and nothing but the truth.

I guess certain people have more right to post their opinions than others. I guess its okay for people of other religions to commit the greatest of crimes, destroy entire nations...without being questioned. You people need to take your heads out of the sand, wake up and smell the coffee, and see what the reality is before opening your big mouths. We've had enough priests, Christian LEADERS in the CHURCH sexually molesting children with their own hands. Perhaps I should start saying Christianity is the problem. Know what impression that gives non-Christians about Christianity? Christian leaders molesting children. Nice. I'm not one to question a religion based on the actions of some, even if they are their leaders, because I KNOW that's not what the religion teaches. Ignorance is a MAJOR problem. I think about these things, the hypocrisy I see here constantly, the hypocrisy in the media, the hypocrisy of the nations in this world...AND...I wonder WHY???

That being said, I had to say what I had to say. I'm done with this thread.

[Cataholic]

How completely hypocritical of you. Completely. Whereas I made a VERY general statment (and who in God's name prefeces ANY thing with "this is my opinion) about Islam, you made VERY specific statments about things, here. If you go back to your first post in this thread, you are all OVER us, questioning our beliefs, insinuating that somehow we are 'less' because we laugh at something.

You talk about people here taking their heads out of the sand, that is just so funny to me. As if you somehow have this greater knowledge of life? As if.

You have EVERY right to express an opinion. But, so. do. I.

[caseysmom]

From what I have heard lots of IMAN's have molested youngs boys also, I don't think the catholics hold the market on that one.

I don't want to cause this to be any more tense than it already is PCB but it does seem like you put us in positions to defend our way of life lots of times and when you are questioned you get upset, sorry that is just what I have observed.

[Randi]

First of all ... your first post was excellent, Johanna! :D

I think we should all focus more on people's actions, instead of what/who they say they are. However, I must say that in recent years, we've had a lot of problems in the world with people who claim to be Muslims. :(

[Kfamr]

I don't want to cause this to be any more tense than it already is PCB but it does seem like you put us in positions to defend our way of life lots of times and when you are questioned you get upset, sorry that is just what I have observed.

This is very, very, very true.

Love her, but she has made many statements questioning people's beliefs, ways of life, etc. from the very beginning.


Like I said, if she had any problem at all with Johanna I believe as FRIENDS it should be talked about privately. Johanna or anyone else can't predict how someone's going to react to or read into a particular opinion. I had thought their friendship was greater than that, but maybe I was mistaken.

There are two VERY hurt sides here...

[Karen]

Okay, stop, folks. No name calling, no finger-pointing. Everyone is entitled to her/his opinion, however, there's no need to jump on each other.

I thank those who have taken this discussion seriously, and know that, while no one meant to hurt people's feelings, that is what has happened.

Christians kill each other - the American Civil war is one example. But it was not fought over "religion" per se, there were God-fearing Christian folks on both sides of that one. That's just a handy example.

War is never pretty.

War is never simple.

Let us, at Pet Talk, try to get along with each other, be respectful of each other's heartfelt opinions, and live together peaceably. We not be able to solve all the world's problems, but we can get along with each other.

Right?

And all of you who pray, pray please for peace.

[caseysmom]

PCB I think you are a very intelligent young woman and I have the utmost respect for you and for Islam. I think we can find ugly things in just about any group of people/religions/races, etc.

Unfortunetly we westerners do hear all the ugly stuff about Islam so that is our only information source besides you.

This is why I personally get turned off by religion, sorry for those with strong feelings about it I just feel like it separates people too much.

Obviously there are good things in Islam, all those billions of people who believe can't be believing in something that is only promoting violence, etc. Please don't be hurt by all of this I know its a big job for you to explain it to all of us but we do appreciate it and I do think some of the questions posed to you are meant to be inflammatory sometimes but just take it with a grain of salt and an opportunity to inform.